Interesting you speak of Democracy yet where is the voice of the Romulan Republic , what words of wisdom have we heard from the senate? Where is the governing body hmm? So far I've only heard the voice of D'tan and his lackeys , you know what people call that when one person makes all the decisions *pauses for effect* A dictatorship. Maybe not one of oppression but certainly one of conformity where everyone follows along like mindless sheep.
Reading comprehenssion is essential in forum discussions.
I was not talking about democracy, I was making a real-life comparison. You make it sound like just because D'Tan is reunifiocacionist suddenly all Romulans will become reunifiocacionists.
Just like (I'm going to use the other side now so there is no confusion) if the American president is a Republican, that should mean that all Americans are Republicans, right?
The Republic a dictatorship? LOL!!! Why, because you talk to the leader and don't see the whole senate and discuss politics with them in game? *facepalm*
That probably means that the Federation is a military-police state, since I've never seen Aennik Okeg and I only talk to Admirals, usually Quinn.
Oh? So what the leader of the Romulan Republic thinks is of no concern to you? The guiding force that sets the direction the Republic heads into is totally inconsequential to you. My you are a bold one...or is that naivety I smell , I can't quite decide.
You seem to forget yourself have you forgotten by the good graces of the Republic you fly their starship and by said graces it can be just as easily be taken away. Or do you intend to mutiny should things go sour and overthrow a crew of over a hundred Romulans?
If the President of my country decides he wants to follow religion, move to a monastery and become a monk, it's no concern of mine. That doesn't mean that my contry will sudenly turn into a religious state just because of 1 man. That means he'll leave his position and another elected President will take the seat.
Therefore, what the leader of the Romulan Republic wants to do with his own life is of no concern to me, as long as he does his duty as the head of the Romulan Republic properly. So far he's doing just fine. If he tries to steer off, then we'll have this discussion.
And I don't know about your crew, but my crew of 150 people are pretty tight, mostly friends from colony worlds with long lasting relations. We all share the vision of Mol'Rihan, no need for mutiny here.
Yes no longer Tal'shiar cannon fodder but cannon fodder of aliens that is so much better.
Funny, you described just what the Tal'Shiar is doing - making you a cannon fodder for other aliens, like.....I don't know....the Elachi/Iconians? Actually worse, they transform you into an Elachi! :eek:
Strong that's a laugh now we're little more than groveling beggars asking for hand outs at the Federations and Klingons door. The real reason the Klingons and Federation have been so helpful is that they want our technology not out of some misguided attempt at friendship or comradeship. The very idea of Klingons and Romulans being friends makes me sick to my stomach.
Then you really must have thrown up a lot while watching TOS.
While I have no love for that half human reject I have even less for the Vulcans or do you forget who turned a blind eye in our greatest hour of need?
Yes, because after war followed by 200 years of isolation and no contact, it's suddenly the Vulcans' fault that the Romulans decided to blow up their own homeworld. :rolleyes:
Yes such honorable allies that will turn on you at the slightest provocation. How long before that dagger of the Klingon Empire is turned at your back? It didn't didn't take them much to declare war on the Federation what excuse do you think they'll need to greedily expand their Empire into our territory?
Wow, you really must think Klingons are that dumb. Yeah, they'll just start a war with the Romulan Republic for no aparent reason because, you know, that's just what they need. I mean they're already fighting on like 6-7 fronts, so what's one more for them right?
The Klingons know that the Republic being allied to both Fed. & KDF is the only way to balance things. If they lose the alliance with the RR, it will be 2 on 1 war against them, something that they're aware they can't handle.
The old Empire was weak and needed to be cast down but a new pure one must be reforged in it's place. Have you forgotten why we march under the raptors wings...we are Romulan and we shall crush all the lessor races into submission we should never bow a knee to these Veruul!
Strong that's a laugh now we're little more than groveling beggars asking for hand outs at the Federations and Klingons door. The real reason the Klingons and Federation have been so helpful is that they want our technology not out of some misguided attempt at friendship or comradeship. The very idea of Klingons and Romulans being friends makes me sick to my stomach.
Which one is it? Are we groveling beggars asking for hand outs or the superior race that will crush it's enemies?
That's my very point it's ludicrous to think Romulans would have any say on how the Klingon government is run and yet just as ludicrous we are errand boys to these foul smelling jackals.
I agree, that's why I don't understand why you complained that there will never be a Romulan on the Klingon High Council. They're allies, allies does not mean they are a part of each other, it means they cooperate and work together.
And I don't know what errands you're doing, but the only errands I do are the ones I set myslef to do and ones that benefit the Republic.
They are not an imitate threat let the Klingons and Federation sacrifice their lives for now we have none to spare or do you think we should spill Romulan blood to raise Klingons and Humans on high?
Interesting, that's just how DS9 begun. Yeah, that went well....
I won't digress about the laughable balance of pvp because it's so laughable it makes me want to cry but the FvF and KvK is considered a war game so I assume it's a simulation like the Kobayashi Maru test.
Oh, so Feds. and Klingons can do war games, but Romulans can't? Wow, Romulans must really suck at simulations!
Police states are some of the founding principals of Romulan culture how dare you condescend my superior Romulan culture with barbaric notions of morality from alien cultures!
Do I want a want a war on multiple fronts...maybe you haven't been paying attention but that's exactly what our so called alliance has brought us into. Breen , Cardassian , Dominion , the list goes on and on. And how are we repaid by doing this? By making our allies stronger while we get weaker.
Every day I lose more and more Romulan blood for wars that aren't even our wars because of this insulting alliance we're being dragged into an endless conflict we can't win.
I laughed out loud when an alliance with the Federation was proposed. Seriously have all Romulans gone mad? Do you forget in our hour of need we turned to our Vulcan brothers and they wouldn't lift a finger to save our home world? Why because they wanted us dead we're an embarrassment and a threat to them they'd rather be rid of us than aid us. Oh sure several members of the Federation gave a formal protest to the Vulcans by removing their ambassadors but I think we both know they were hoping in their hearts this was the last they would see of us. It was no different than the Dominion war where the federation condemned the attack on the founders but really they wanted the Tal shiar to succeed only they wanted to come out of it as the humans say smelling like a rose.
Yeah, multiple fronts we fight on back to back with the 2 other superpowers of the quadrant, as oposed to fighting all of that alone.
And the Federation obviously wants all Romulans dead, that's why they're helping establish the Romulan Republic. :rolleyes:
Klingons are even worse we were right to attack first at Khitomer how long do you think before the Klingons had turned on us? An insult to their Grandmother is reason enough for them to start a war. Look at the Federation Klingon pact , didn't take long for that to crumble and lets face it the federation are far more willing to bend over backwards to keep the peace than we are.
I'm only sorry to say we never finished the job of wiping out the barbaric brutes.
Need I remind you who was the first to commit a genocide on Khitomer???
The Federation betrayed the alliance with the Klingons on several ocassions. Klingons and Federation obviously have different ideas of what an alliance means. Besides, Starfleet is infested with Undine and they didn't want to listen to the Klingon warnings. That's what the war is all about.
No we are alone in this the very thought of a Federation or Klingon Alliance is little more than an illusion and to be quite frank my cloaking device is far better at making a more believable illusion than this facade is.
POV. I can't argue with anyone's pov, it is what it is. To me it makes perfect sense given the lore about the developments in the last 20 years.
Reading comprehenssion is essential in forum discussions.
I was not talking about democracy, I was making a real-life comparison. You make it sound like just because D'Tan is reunifiocacionist suddenly all Romulans will become reunifiocacionists.
Just like (I'm going to use the other side now so there is no confusion) if the American president is a Republican, that should mean that all Americans are Republicans, right?
The Republic a dictatorship? LOL!!! Why, because you talk to the leader and don't see the whole senate and discuss politics with them in game? *facepalm*
That probably means that the Federation is a military-police state, since I've never seen Aennik Okeg and I only talk to Admirals, usually Quinn.
I am well aware of what you were saying but I felt the need to digressing some. Yes D'tan is an individual bravo great deduction there...oh wait you can say that about any character in the game. Yes there are individuals in the game but D'tan is not only a character in the game but a representative of what the Romulan republic stands for and therefore most likely a representation of the Republic.
I base my opinion on what's presented to me I don't know what you base your opinions on but I generally have to have something to go on.
If the President of my country decides he wants to follow religion, move to a monastery and become a monk, it's no concern of mine. That doesn't mean that my contry will sudenly turn into a religious state just because of 1 man. That means he'll leave his position and another elected President will take the seat.
Therefore, what the leader of the Romulan Republic wants to do with his own life is of no concern to me, as long as he does his duty as the head of the Romulan Republic properly. So far he's doing just fine. If he tries to steer off, then we'll have this discussion.
And I don't know about your crew, but my crew of 150 people are pretty tight, mostly friends from colony worlds with long lasting relations. We all share the vision of Mol'Rihan, no need for mutiny here.
Funny, you described just what the Tal'Shiar is doing - making you a cannon fodder for other aliens, like.....I don't know....the Elachi/Iconians? Actually worse, they transform you into an Elachi!
How do we know it's worse it might be very pleasant being an Elachi.:P Yes the Tal'shiar are using people I'll call them borg 2.0 but my point still stands Klingons and Feds are still using Romulans too.
Yes, because after war followed by 200 years of isolation and no contact, it's suddenly the Vulcans' fault that the Romulans decided to blow up their own homeworld.
So it's okay to turn away from a request to save billions if you don't like them? That almost sounds like an emotional reaction to me but no that can't be Vulcans are above prejudice.
Wow, you really must think Klingons are that dumb. Yeah, they'll just start a war with the Romulan Republic for no aparent reason because, you know, that's just what they need. I mean they're already fighting on like 6-7 fronts, so what's one more for them right?
The Klingons know that the Republic being allied to both Fed. & KDF is the only way to balance things. If they lose the alliance with the RR, it will be 2 on 1 war against them, something that they're aware they can't handle.
I've been talking partly in a Role playing tone I'm surprised you haven't picked that up but to answer your question I think J'mpok said it best "only in battle is a Klingon truly a Klingon". They're always looking for the next fight and as far as I've seen need little provocation while lacking restraint.
Yeah, multiple fronts we fight on back to back with the 2 other superpowers of the quadrant, as oposed to fighting all of that alone.
And the Federation obviously wants all Romulans dead, that's why they're helping establish the Romulan Republic. :rolleyes:
Yes why didn't I think of that yes those two super power will be of great help to us...to bad they're spending all their time killing each other.
Need I remind you who was the first to commit a genocide on Khitomer???
The Federation betrayed the alliance with the Klingons on several ocassions. Klingons and Federation obviously have different ideas of what an alliance means. Besides, Starfleet is infested with Undine and they didn't want to listen to the Klingon warnings. That's what the war is all about.
Am I detecting the hint of a Klingon player in your voice? That would explain why you're take this so personally.
Anyways this has gotten way to long so if you have any more comments please try to keep it short this is waaaay to much to reply too.
Sorry to interrupt the role-playing here, but can I come back to the point of the thread...?
I think a lot of players, who know Star Trek and canon, are happy that there is some new Romulan content, whilst also disappointed that it has been bolted-on to the existing two main factions, so that Romulan ships are not part of their own Romulan fleet. I think before most started to play it, most would have expected to be playing within a Romulan fleet.
I haven't counted-up which faction has the most 'unique' missions or episodes - and whilst it may be a point of interest, it doesn't really alter the fact that the Romulan ships are not part of a Romulan fleet or force, and this is essentially where what we have sits uneasy with me.
OK, you can argue that, per the storyline, that New Romulas hasn't developed enough to really have a fleet of its own - despite managing to have a Flotilla - and there is the practical real-world argument that it was the economical way to introduce Romulan content to the existing game.
Fine. But New Romulas will develop. That shuttle that I've been working on so much, in The Staging Area, WILL FLY AGAIN!
As a long-time Star Trek fan, even given the precarious state of Romulan existence, and that there is a new Government and a "Republic" in charge, not an "Empire", I don't believe that The Romulans would have individually aligned themselves with either The Klingons or the Federation. I just don't see that as in their fundamental nature. They would have wanted their own independent fleet, no matter how limited it was, because they only really have New Romulas to protect anyway now, but also because it would have been theirs.
That does not mean that they would not want to continue to receive aid and assistance. You can still go there and chase epohhs.
So I regard this joining the KDF/Federation option purely as a game mechanic which I hope disappears in the future, so that there is an independent Romulan faction, which can have its own problems, such as the continuing threat of the remnants of the Tal Shiar and whatever Sela might return and come-up with (or perhaps the daughter of Sela - a 1/4 human, 1/4 Romulan, 1/2 Iconion...still played by Denise Crosby...just an idea...).
For me, I hope that this new content is a door to more future content, and a more independent Romulan faction, regardless of whether it is bigger or smaller than the KDF one - and I frankly don't see the argument made about it adversely affecting PVP, which is purely a game mechanic where you can take on other players, regardless of what faction they are part of and can therefore be ignored in terms of how the storyline and canon goes. If anything, this should enhance it by giving players more options that they might want to play with.
I respect that there are economics that may well limit what we want and what we ultimately get, but as Romulans have been part of Star Trek since TOS and are a firmly established race, I regard the storyline of aligning them individually with either the Federation or the Klingons as a choice for each player/individual as something that a Star Trek series or movie would never do - so even if the game can, it shouldn't have.
Now having done so, I again state that I very much hope that this changes in the future and that New Romulas develops to the point where The Romulans can have their own independent fleet.
Quite simply, without that, they are not Romulans.
I am well aware of what you were saying but I felt the need to digressing some. Yes D'tan is an individual bravo great deduction there...oh wait you can say that about any character in the game. Yes there are individuals in the game but D'tan is not only a character in the game but a representative of what the Romulan republic stands for and therefore most likely a representation of the Republic.
I base my opinion on what's presented to me I don't know what you base your opinions on but I generally have to have something to go on.
I don't believe that one man, even being the current leader of the Romulan Republic can himself represent every single citizen of the Republic. He has his interests in reunification, that much is obvious, but that doesn't mean that he's about to throw/force the whole Republic into reunification with Vulcan. He's well aware that most of the Romulans are not into the reunification thing, he just wanted to help Romulans found a new home, because his group was already existant, well coordinated and experienced with fighting against the Tal'Shiar. Not everyone could pull this Republic thing off. You even have Tovan Khev on your ship that in one of the mission says that he's not quite supportive of the reunification with Vulcan.
And what about the Remans? D'Tan made them equals in the Republic, whatever reason would they have for reunification with Vulcan?
I base my opinions by what I see in game and the lore the devs. write. As a Romulan/Reman - the reunification was mentioned only 1 time to me, and it was by either Temer or Nadel (I don't remember which one), never from D'Tan. He only spoke about the Romulans comming together to forge a better future for themselves.
How do we know it's worse it might be very pleasant being an Elachi. Yes the Tal'shiar are using people I'll call them borg 2.0 but my point still stands Klingons and Feds are still using Romulans too.
Ofcourse they are. Would you expect anyone to go willingly into yet another war out of the kindess of their hearts? But, so are Romulans using the Feds. and Klingons. They use their resources to build Mol'Rihan, they use their ships and their fleets to fight off the Tal'Shiar and their allies.
You take some and you give some. Actually playing the both sides for your own interests is much more Romulan than the Tal'Shiar variant that basically is - an armada attacks your colony, Hakeev's ugly face shows on the screens and tells you "Please keep calm. Nothing to worry about. The Elachi mothership will be picking you up any minute now!".
Do you just try to belittle people in an attempt to win your argument or is it just your pleasant personality?
Sorry, that was not my intention. I was just genuinely confused that you'd prefer being a cannon fodder for the Tal'Shiar, than to other "alien" species, especially given the happenings in the Romulan storyline.
So it's okay to turn away from a request to save billions if you don't like them? That almost sounds like an emotional reaction to me but no that can't be Vulcans are above prejudice.
First of all, there was no official request. The Romulan government was either blinded by the Tal'Shiar or was ignoring the issue on purpose. No Romulan representative asked the Federation for assistance. It was Spock asking the Vulcan Science Academy for help. It was all done through backdoors and alternate routes and that was the problem. The Federation Council condemned that when they found out.
Why didn't Spock appeal to the Federation council in the first place? Well, there's Kurtzman and Orci's stellar writing for ya'.
Besides, why does everyone expect the Federation to take care and allways save everyone? Being the good guys and not creating a big mess in the galaxy themselves does not mean that they would go out of their way, sacrificing the lives of their own people to clean up the mess someone made on himself.
And furthermore, the Vulcans were the ones that gave Spock the red matter. So they did help eventually. They just ran out of time not because of them, but because the supernova happened sooner than expected and it went through subspace. On Romulus it was not expected for another 2 weeks. You can thank Tal'Shiar and their allies for that, noone can save you if you're that determined to jump of the roof of a building. If it was natural, Spock would have made it and the Vulcans would have came through for the Romulans even if they were reluctant at first.
I've been talking partly in a Role playing tone I'm surprised you haven't picked that up but to answer your question I think J'mpok said it best "only in battle is a Klingon truly a Klingon". They're always looking for the next fight and as far as I've seen need little provocation while lacking restraint.
True, J'mpok says that. And the Klingon Empire is currently at war with: the Federation, the Fek'ihri, the Undine, the Borg, the Tholians, the Breen, the True Way and now the Tal'Shiar as well due to helping the Republic. Don't you think they have enough battles, so they can consider accepting a hand in friendship from one of the few factions that actually try to be friendly with them?
We once were and can be again the Superiors of the alpha quadrant but we're doomed to become beggars if we continue down D'tan's path.
Actually, D'Tan has positioned the Romulan Republic so they have a lot of influence again. Currently neither the KDF or the Feds. can afford not cooperating with the RR, because that would mean a vast advantage for the other one. D'Tan's vision and ideas, especially after making friends out of the Remans are the best path for the Romulans to climb back to their former glory and relevance.
The other option is full civil war that is currently happening in the RSE terittories, with warlords fighting for their own interests and domain, resulting with hundreds of starships lost and bilions of Romulans and Remans dead. That's the best path for becomming a beggar.
As well as the preemptive strike by the Tal Shiar. How many ships again was that they lost for basically nothing?
That was Tal'Shiar's arrogance, or should I say - utter stupidity at it's best.
So, you see, even then the Romulans knew that the Dominion is a threat they'll have to deal with eventually. But in their arogance, they decided to do it alone as an intelligence agency together with the Obsidian Order - another intellignece agency. As far as we know, the official Cardassian government had no idea that the Obsidian Order is building an armanda to fight the Dominion and we can assume that the Romulan government had no idea about Tal'Shiar's operations as well. So they didin't even ask for help from their own militaries, God forbid asking the Federation and the Klingion Empire for help in the operation. It costed them a fine number of very strong ships that were lost in an ambush.
And if the Romulans were even then aware that the Dominion is a global threat, why would the Romulan Republic ignore that fact now. Especially given that they experienced the burn of 'do it yourself' once before. Why wouldn't they leave the arrogance behind and coordiante with Starfleet and the KDF if it saves them ships and valuable lives?
They're not simulations when they're actually battling the opposite factions is it really that hard to grasp?
No, considering PvP by any stretch relevant for the storyline in the game is what is really really hard to grasp.
So battling the opposite faction is the actual war, right?
Riiight, cause that's what factions at war usually do. They kill a few hundred of my men, I kill a few hunderd of theirs, then D'Vak calls and we merily join forces to fight the Borg. :rolleyes:
And nothing sounds as a war better than sharing a mug of bloodwine in Quark's bar with that Klingon captain that ordered the stealth attack that killed 200 of my men. :rolleyes:
Let's be honest here - the PvP is not by any stretch relevant to anything that is currently happening in STO's storyline. The devs. didn't care at the very least when the made the content, why should we care? I get it, it's ridiculous, I feel the same.
But the fact is that Romulans are not killing other Romulans for the Fed. or KDF because of the PvP. Because the whole relation between the storyline and PvP is currently a total joke. It's a day at the circus, no way that 90% of the stuff going on in STO would happen if PvP was really relevant in any form, be it FvF, KvK or FvK. It just is irrelevant.
Am I detecting the hint of a Klingon player in your voice? That would explain why you're take this so personally.
LOL:D I guess I was talking partly in a RP tone myself.
But, I don't take it personally, the facts are facts - the Romulans were the first to attack Khitomer and commit a genocide against the civilian population, so you can't really blame it on the Klingons for taking Khitomer back when the RSE was weak.
Also another fact - the Klingons expect support from the ones that claim to be their allies. They warned the Federation about the Undine, even brought proof of them infiltrating the Gorn Hegemony and other factions and how did the Federation react? They told them to leave the Gorn alone and that there are no such things as Undine.
It's not about being personal in those cases, it's about being objective.
@shpoks I'll just sum up my thoughts because replying to each and every point in your post would take more than 20 minutes but I did read everything.:P
You claim PvP is part of a game mechanic and I can accept that but then surely you must agree Romulans siding with the Klingons plus the Federation at the same time is also another game mechanic?
Romulans are a proud , paranoid , and distrustful race by nature you can't just wipe away years of cultural distrust with a single gesture. They may have no choice for now but I can not see this alliance lasting very long if the Romulans behave like the ones we know and love from the series.
Now the devs obviously have no intention to commit to making them a 100% faction so I'm proposing to remove this "game mechanic" without having to make a bunch of extra content. Say the alliance talks break down as part of end game content. Not all out war but not buddy buddy we're all one happy fleet flying together.
That way the faction can be separate but not tagged as Fed or Klingon.
Now of course not everyone would want to leave there Klingon and Fed fleets but I would add that they could be classified as captains that have gone rogue and not part of Romulan Republic so everyone can be on the side they truly want.
As to my thoughts on D'tan well he just doesn't feel like a Romulan to me for all we know he could be a Vulcan infiltrator sent by Spock to undermine Romulan society to mold it into what the Vulcan's want.<.<>.> Yes he may not speak for the entire Romulan population but I've yet to see anyone speak of Romulan conquest and glory. No it's just lets just survive so we can get back to making more Romulan ale kinda talk.
Obisek seems more Romulan than D'tan and that concerns me.
Anyways that's my thoughts on it.
First...sorry to say, but I do not think this is temporary.
Second...no offense...but this is a bit of a dead horse...there are lots of threads on this topic, even before LOR came out.
I wish the Romulans were a separate faction...but I think that this is now the norm for future new "factions" n STO.
Quoted for the unfortunate truth, and the trend in this game.
And D'Tan is a damn fool for selling his people and power base out to the Federation and Klingons. The Romulan Republic will get the support and materials to build New Romulus. But the price? Watching their own ships and blood of the Republic splatter across the quadrant in matters that originally did not concern the Romulans nor even the old Romulan Star Empire.
They could have had a better chance in reestablishing relations with Empress Sela, most especially after Hakeev's demise. She never has been fond of the Tal Shiar and the road of ruin Hakeev has set upon. And Sela only cares about ONE thing:
The preservation of Romulan power and its standing among its rivals.
D'Tan could have cut some better deal with Sela and reunify Romulan power.
But then again, D'Tan is a seperatist through and through in his goal of reunifying with the Vulcans.
Interesting you speak of Democracy yet where is the voice of the Romulan Republic , what words of wisdom have we heard from the senate? Where is the governing body hmm? So far I've only heard the voice of D'tan and his lackeys , you know what people call that when one person makes all the decisions *pauses for effect* A dictatorship. Maybe not one of oppression but certainly one of conformity where everyone follows along like mindless sheep.
The Federation government isn't reflected in the game either. By your logic Admiral Quinn is the Dictator of the Federation.
The Federation government isn't reflected in the game either. By your logic Admiral Quinn is the Dictator of the Federation.
Ah that statement is incorrect because we have at least five other admirals , Admiral Valoth , Admiral Grigori Yanishev , Admiral Quinn , and Admiral T'nae not to mention the numerous Vice admirals.
So best you could argue would be an oligarchy. Granted we don't see representative leaders of the Federation nations but there's certainly more command structure there than a single leader.
All I could find for the Romulans that was even close to that was Admiral Kerkerek and he's obviously superseded in rank by D'tan.
I guess it could be possible that the Romulan group is so small they have no real command structure but I would expect to see at least a few more people such as senators that are equivalent in rank besides Kerkerek or D'tan.
You claim PvP is part of a game mechanic and I can accept that but then surely you must agree Romulans siding with the Klingons plus the Federation at the same time is also another game mechanic?
Agreed. It's just in this game, unlike many others, these 2 mechanics are not properly synchronized resulting with one trumping the other in story relevance.
Romulans are a proud , paranoid , and distrustful race by nature you can't just wipe away years of cultural distrust with a single gesture. They may have no choice for now but I can not see this alliance lasting very long if the Romulans behave like the ones we know and love from the series.
I slightly disagree here. I don't think that Romulans have those atributes by nature, but more by a way of life or dare I say....indoctrination. I'm saying this because they basically branched off the Vulcan species, so I don't see it as a natural result like for ex. the Klingon agression that is explained by the tinted axis and rotation cycles of Qo'noS, resulting with every species on the planet developing agressive tendencies even at the earliest stages of evolution.
I agree that those are the Romulans we saw in the shows and that those are the Romulans that people came to love and expect to be in STO. However that might be an over-generalisation of the race. 90% of the Romulans we saw in Star Trek were trained military personel and the other 10% we saw were either sharing those ideals or the complete opposite - being afraid of the regime or followers of the reunification movement.
However, while I like the Romulans we have in STO for being new and fresh and possibly providing an outlook on the other side of the coin that is their species, I can certainly understand the pepole who are bummed and dissapointed for not having the Romulans that, let's face it - everyone expected before we found out the format of the Romulan faction.
Now the devs obviously have no intention to commit to making them a 100% faction so I'm proposing to remove this "game mechanic" without having to make a bunch of extra content. Say the alliance talks break down as part of end game content. Not all out war but not buddy buddy we're all one happy fleet flying together.
That way the faction can be separate but not tagged as Fed or Klingon.
Now of course not everyone would want to leave there Klingon and Fed fleets but I would add that they could be classified as captains that have gone rogue and not part of Romulan Republic so everyone can be on the side they truly want.
I admire your optimism, but unfortunatley I don't believe that proper separation will ever happen in STO, furthermore we'll have new factions (ex.Cardassians) implemented on the same standards. The devs. have made this perfectly clear.
And also that would mean that the captains that decided to stick with Fed/KDF and not fall back in the Romulan faction will be in a great advanage using Fed./KDF toys, consoles and equipment. It would also mean that the other factions get access to Romulan ships. As someone who has been on the forum for quite a while, I can guarantee that this would also create forum whinings of epic proportions that will cause the server to shut down.
I really see no way for what has already be done to be turned back, ever.
As to my thoughts on D'tan well he just doesn't feel like a Romulan to me for all we know he could be a Vulcan infiltrator sent by Spock to undermine Romulan society to mold it into what the Vulcan's want.<.<>.> Yes he may not speak for the entire Romulan population but I've yet to see anyone speak of Romulan conquest and glory. No it's just lets just survive so we can get back to making more Romulan ale kinda talk.
Obisek seems more Romulan than D'tan and that concerns me.
Anyways that's my thoughts on it.
The way I see D'Tan is that he is a man of peace. And talking about Romulan conquest and glory would sound a bit premature, given the condition of the Romulan society in STO.
D'Tan doesn't overally concern me, because I don't expect him to be in the position of a leader forever. The way I see it, he's in that position because in the aftermath of the destruction of Romulus and Remus, the skirmishes between so called 'leaders' and all that Tal'Shiar is doing, he was the leader of a well organized movement, with many members that stick together and have years of expereince in evading and fighting the Tal'Shiar. He simply was the person in the best position to pull off the New Romulus thing and that's why he's currently the leader. It wouldn't suprise me if in a future season he steps down or a new Praetor is ellected and he'd work only as an advisor or ambasador to Vulcan or sth.
The preservation of Romulan power and its standing among its rivals.
Sorry, I just had to adress this point as well
Sela only cares about ONE thing: Her own posterior and position in power.
And she even fails at that. She's the ultimate Star Trek fail. Donatra on the other hand, I can work with, pitty Cryptic borgified her, but Sela? Shove that multiverse halfiling out of the airlock before she brings fail to our ship as well! :P
Now the devs obviously have no intention to commit to making them a 100% faction so I'm proposing to remove this "game mechanic" without having to make a bunch of extra content. Say the alliance talks break down as part of end game content. Not all out war but not buddy buddy we're all one happy fleet flying together.
That way the faction can be separate but not tagged as Fed or Klingon.
Now of course not everyone would want to leave there Klingon and Fed fleets but I would add that they could be classified as captains that have gone rogue and not part of Romulan Republic so everyone can be on the side they truly want.
That would work for me. It offers a choice and a chance to be an independent Romulan.
I slightly disagree here. I don't think that Romulans have those atributes by nature, but more by a way of life or dare I say....indoctrination. I'm saying this because they basically branched off the Vulcan species, so I don't see it as a natural result like for ex. the Klingon agression that is explained by the tinted axis and rotation cycles of Qo'noS, resulting with every species on the planet developing agressive tendencies even at the earliest stages of evolution.
I agree that those are the Romulans we saw in the shows and that those are the Romulans that people came to love and expect to be in STO. However that might be an over-generalisation of the race. 90% of the Romulans we saw in Star Trek were trained military personel and the other 10% we saw were either sharing those ideals or the complete opposite - being afraid of the regime or followers of the reunification movement.
However, while I like the Romulans we have in STO for being new and fresh and possibly providing an outlook on the other side of the coin that is their species, I can certainly understand the pepole who are bummed and dissapointed for not having the Romulans that, let's face it - everyone expected before we found out the format of the Romulan faction....
I admire your optimism, but unfortunatley I don't believe that proper separation will ever happen in STO, furthermore we'll have new factions (ex.Cardassians) implemented on the same standards. The devs. have made this perfectly clear.
And also that would mean that the captains that decided to stick with Fed/KDF and not fall back in the Romulan faction will be in a great advanage using Fed./KDF toys, consoles and equipment. It would also mean that the other factions get access to Romulan ships. As someone who has been on the forum for quite a while, I can guarantee that this would also create forum whinings of epic proportions that will cause the server to shut down.
I really see no way for what has already be done to be turned back, ever.
Well I hope you are wrong or at least they can be talked round. This is and should be a Star Trek game, not a game called Star Trek - a subtle but important distinction.
I am inclined to agree with your point that we did generally only see the military side of the Romulans, and when not, they were still acting within a military or police state and empire. Now all that has changed, giving the opportunity for D'Tan to step-in and be the idealist and change things.
Even so, The Romulans are still a proud race and as vonhellsting pointed out, they are not going to be an entirely different people over-night. Quite frankly, aside from the "baddie" Tal Shiar, the Romulan Republic could be any alien Republic, only recognisable as Romulan from the use of the same ships.
The Ferengi are reknowned traders (privateers, even) and The Romulans are reknowned as cunning and manipulative - but also dutiful. Yes, these traits were primarily from characters acting within the Romulan imperial heirachy, but as someone mentioned before (somewhere), Romulan DOff traits generally include "cunning". So it hasn't completely gone - and it shouldn't have.
Let's see more of it - and as with the first Romulan we saw, who was evidently very cunning (I refer of course to the Romulan ship Captain played with such great depth for such a one-off role by the late Mark Lenard in Balance of Terror, that he came back as the character of Spock's Father, for which he will always be known for) - The Romulans are a race with multiple facets to them, and "cunning" does not necessarily mean "evil".
Bolting them on to the KDF or Federation may be an ideal way for the devs to incorporate them into the game; leaving them that way does not do them, or Star Trek, justice.
So pretty please, with sugar on top...you can guess the rest...;)
I slightly disagree here. I don't think that Romulans have those atributes by nature, but more by a way of life or dare I say....indoctrination. I'm saying this because they basically branched off the Vulcan species, so I don't see it as a natural result like for ex. the Klingon agression that is explained by the tinted axis and rotation cycles of Qo'noS, resulting with every species on the planet developing agressive tendencies even at the earliest stages of evolution.
Perhaps by nature was a poor choice of words I wasn't exactly thinking instinctual behavior but more like it's second nature to them. In other words they do it without really thinking about it. Like when a child picks up a mothers reaction to something and emulates it , this kind of social behavior is very hard to root out because we don't even realize we're teaching it. It's very subtle but even the simplest of reactions like a gesture of the eyes may cause a child to form an opinion of something based off little more than a movement of the eyes or facial gesture.
Although it maybe a hereditary trait too. If we look back at the episode where Spock goes back in time through that time portal I forget what the episode is called but you probably know the one. Which was before they developed their control over their emotions Spock became very violent and paranoid.
Also if we look at the pon farr Vulcans can and do become very violent. This behavior though is normally suppressed through their mental disciplines. I would say the normal behavior of Vulcans is really a very poor example of what Romulan nature maybe like given at a very early age they are taught to suppress their natural behavior. If anything Romulans are more like that the Vulcans are trying to suppress given that's the very reason they left was they didn't want to give up those emotions.
I agree that those are the Romulans we saw in the shows and that those are the Romulans that people came to love and expect to be in STO. However that might be an over-generalisation of the race. 90% of the Romulans we saw in Star Trek were trained military personel and the other 10% we saw were either sharing those ideals or the complete opposite - being afraid of the regime or followers of the reunification movement.
However, while I like the Romulans we have in STO for being new and fresh and possibly providing an outlook on the other side of the coin that is their species, I can certainly understand the pepole who are bummed and dissapointed for not having the Romulans that, let's face it - everyone expected before we found out the format of the Romulan faction.
It maybe an over generalization but when we get something that seems so out of character with what you were expecting then you're not getting the full experience of trek. You're getting a diet version it tastes sorta similar but it's not the same thing. I mean it's like if we went to Vulcan and all the Vulcans were having emotional out bursts and they told us this how they really behave everyone else we saw on screen was just a very select group of Vulcan monks. Some people might accept it but most would want the Vulcans as we were lead to believe they behaved.
I admire your optimism, but unfortunatley I don't believe that proper separation will ever happen in STO, furthermore we'll have new factions (ex.Cardassians) implemented on the same standards. The devs. have made this perfectly clear.
And also that would mean that the captains that decided to stick with Fed/KDF and not fall back in the Romulan faction will be in a great advanage using Fed./KDF toys, consoles and equipment. It would also mean that the other factions get access to Romulan ships. As someone who has been on the forum for quite a while, I can guarantee that this would also create forum whinings of epic proportions that will cause the server to shut down.
I really see no way for what has already be done to be turned back, ever.
Well I'm not exactly optimistic it will happen but if we don't ask there's absolutely no chance it will happen. No harm in asking as they say and people did say the same thing about a Romulan faction but they were thankfully wrong there.
The way I see D'Tan is that he is a man of peace. And talking about Romulan conquest and glory would sound a bit premature, given the condition of the Romulan society in STO.
D'Tan doesn't overally concern me, because I don't expect him to be in the position of a leader forever. The way I see it, he's in that position because in the aftermath of the destruction of Romulus and Remus, the skirmishes between so called 'leaders' and all that Tal'Shiar is doing, he was the leader of a well organized movement, with many members that stick together and have years of expereince in evading and fighting the Tal'Shiar. He simply was the person in the best position to pull off the New Romulus thing and that's why he's currently the leader. It wouldn't suprise me if in a future season he steps down or a new Praetor is ellected and he'd work only as an advisor or ambasador to Vulcan or sth.
Well don't get me wrong I don't mind D'tan I might even like him if not for the fact he's presented as the head of the Romulan Republic.
A leader generally should represent the interests of it's culture. Hitler was a fascist , Stallion a Communist , Churchhill a representative democrat....well okay some may argue that but you get the point. Now either he's an odd ball who is not representing republic properly or he's a representation of this new Republics ideals and we got something that's nothing like the Romulans most of us want to play.
Either way I hope they make changes to this.
I have thought of Romulans as a separate faction as well, and I have an idea.
Since creating an entirely new set of missions would be quite resource draining.. perhaps we can have a faster tweak in gameplay.
Add a new reputation system for Romulans..
At level 50, you receive a hail from a Tal Shiar agent.
They inform you that they have observed your progress, and are interested in your command ability. Also, they are willing to overlook your past actions against the Tal Shiar. Furthermore, Hakeev is dead, Empress Sela is missing, so right now the chain of command is kinda different. The main task that you are assigned is to discover whether the Feds or KDFs have any ulterior motives in the alliance, and to see if your allies are exploiting Romulan tech in any way. You don't have to give the Tal Shiar contact a final answer.. but instead you gain access to a new kind of reputation system that would truly give the word 'Reputation' a meaning.
Tal Shiar Reputation system.
+ Fame Marks for doing actions that support the Tal Shiar cause.
+ Infamity marks for doing actions that do not support the Tal Shiar cause.
These marks will lead to separate branches in the reputation tree.
So there will be two broad branches of missions to earn these marks in.
1) Missions that involve some kind of spy action towards the faction you are allied with, to gain Fame marks
2) Missions that involve some kind of spy action against Tal Shiar, to gain infamity marks
There will be DOFF missions that reflect 1 and 2 as well.
Also, we can have one new mechanic that would make PvP and PvE very intriguing and suspenseful.
New gameplay mechanic - Backstabbing
You may now backstab allied Fed or KDF in PvE or PvP. (some of you might stop reading here and judge, please continue to read)
So lets say for example in a PvE scenario against Borg, there are 3 Fed and 2 Roms. At any point during the PvE scenario, any one Romulan ship can 'force fire' upon the Feds. When the Romulan chooses this option, the 3 Fed turn from 'blue allies' to 'red enemies' and they may return fire. The other Rom then has a choice whether he wants to assist his Rom Republic ally, or Fed ally. If the other Rom ship attacks the Feds too he will be considered ally to the other Romulan ship. For successful destruction of the all Fed vessels, without letting a single one warp away, the Romulan ship that initiated and the assisting ship will gain Fame marks. If the Romulans are unsuccessful, and even one Fed ship warps away, he'll alert the rest of the Federation of the betrayal, and the Romulan ships gain no marks, and they receive a 'traitor' penalty that makes them unable to queue with whomever they were allied with for maybe 4 hours.
Storyline rationale/premise of backstabbing - you are attacking the vessels in hopes of disabling at least some of them, to acquire intel regarding whether the Feds or Klingons are exploiting the Romulans.
If the other romulan ship decides not to assist the initiating attack, but instead to help the KDF or Fed, he may, and he gains infamity marks for successful defense against a betraying Romulan vessel.
All KDF and Fed faction by default earn only Tal Shiar Infamity Marks.
Only Romulans have the option of Tal Shiar Fame Marks.
As they continue to do these, they can gain more marks and get Reputation tree related rewards.
It'd open up the game to a new way of playing... and make any scenario queued with a Romulan very suspenseful.
@xepthri I can't really say I'd look forward to another grind even a Romulan specific one , we've got enough on our plates already.
As to the back stabbing there's three main problems I can see with that.
1. players like predictability generally they work hard to get the perfect builds to win suddenly you throw in randomness and they're losing to no fault of their own which will lead to a lot of angry players.
2. I figure most player would back stab if the odds were in their favor leaving no risk for the Romulans while the other players would run a risk of losing just for playing the game. Not to mention pre made gank fests that would just own everyone.
Also given the option to back stab just about every player is going to choose backstabbing over loyalty.
3. Faction composition would be a logistical nightmare. For it to be fair you'd need a certain number of traitors vs normal player. The logistics alone of getting that to work and still giving everyone an equal chance to win would cripple the already long query system. Not to mention the devs can barely deal with the bugs in the program as is this would probably be the nail in the coffin for an already struggling system.
It's an interesting idea and I give you points for thinking outside the box but personally I just can't see it working.
Thanks for the constructive criticism.
The problems you guys foresee make sense..
One of you mentioned that backstabbing would make people angry? Well... isn't that the whole point? Haha. The Romulans, weren't they known to be dishonorable backstabbers and that was why the Klingons hated them so much... So backstabbing and pissing people off would make people feel very 'canon', haha.
But I agree, gameplay wise, the likelihood of people getting pissed off and stop playing would be higher than those getting pissed off and realizing that this might be how people living in trekverse really felt against the Romulans.
Now for the nitpicky RPer in me: Why am I the only one wearing a rom/fed uniform on my ship? If you choose a side, the crew should change to reflect that. And if I'm using a fed ship, then shouldn't there be a few Fed crewmen on board? I don't see the federation simply handing over a capable starship to an all romulan crew in the middle of a war.
Id just like to toss my support for these 2 things
Its funny....but when they first put the romulans out I thought I would be able to side with the Tal Shiar or D'tan.....but instead they meant choose federation or Klingon.....
which I don't understand...we are romulans we are aligned with both Klingons and federation....and as such why should we choose Klingon or federation.....why do we only have ships from one side or the other......makes zero sense...in fact npcs state we should get help from both groups or get items from both....yet we cant.
The missions literally refer to you as a Klingon or federation....which is not correct....the actual npcs mess up and give dialogue for federation or Klingon and then add in romulan things making it sound weird and incorrect.
Sort of like D'Tan saying his speech to the reman leader.....about how they must over come the problems with the romulans....but then refer to remans later?!?!?
In the mission where you are supposed to explore a big space station and find out about thaloran weapons......you have 4 choices on how to sneak in......if you try the other no non-romulan choices for some reason they semi work I found the engineer one and science ones didn't work...not sure why they are even shown then....as I had to do the romulan thing to get into the base.
The actual reman leader in that mission messes up and refers to you both as a trusted ally and spy and enemy......
Yes you are his ally....but he has to destroy you because you are a Klingon or federation person and cannot understand romulans....then finishes with a message saying he is busy and has to leave and doesn't have time to speak to you his trusted ally.....
>_<;
So there I am having chosen the Klingon side to work with.....and I get told by the federation you cant come to our base we only let groups we are allied with go there.....?!?!?
I truly wanted to be a Tal SHiar.....it made more sense to have that or be part of the d'tans resistance as choices.....but instead we get federation or Klingon and then it proceeds to break the game...as the game cant figure out if we are a romulan or not.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
Interesting you speak of Democracy yet where is the voice of the Romulan Republic , what words of wisdom have we heard from the senate? Where is the governing body hmm? So far I've only heard the voice of D'tan and his lackeys , you know what people call that when one person makes all the decisions *pauses for effect* A dictatorship. Maybe not one of oppression but certainly one of conformity where everyone follows along like mindless sheep.
Oh? So what the leader of the Romulan Republic thinks is of no concern to you? The guiding force that sets the direction the Republic heads into is totally inconsequential to you. My you are a bold one...or is that naivety I smell , I can't quite decide.
You seem to forget yourself have you forgotten by the good graces of the Republic you fly their starship and by said graces it can be just as easily be taken away. Or do you intend to mutiny should things go sour and overthrow a crew of over a hundred Romulans?
Yes no longer Tal'shiar cannon fodder but cannon fodder of aliens that is so much better.:rolleyes:
Strong that's a laugh now we're little more than groveling beggars asking for hand outs at the Federations and Klingons door. The real reason the Klingons and Federation have been so helpful is that they want our technology not out of some misguided attempt at friendship or comradeship. The very idea of Klingons and Romulans being friends makes me sick to my stomach.
While I have no love for that half human reject I have even less for the Vulcans or do you forget who turned a blind eye in our greatest hour of need?
Yes such honorable allies that will turn on you at the slightest provocation. How long before that dagger of the Klingon Empire is turned at your back? It didn't didn't take them much to declare war on the Federation what excuse do you think they'll need to greedily expand their Empire into our territory?
The old Empire was weak and needed to be cast down but a new pure one must be reforged in it's place. Have you forgotten why we march under the raptors wings...we are Romulan and we shall crush all the lessor races into submission we should never bow a knee to these Veruul!
That's my very point it's ludicrous to think Romulans would have any say on how the Klingon government is run and yet just as ludicrous we are errand boys to these foul smelling jackals.
They are not an imitate threat let the Klingons and Federation sacrifice their lives for now we have none to spare or do you think we should spill Romulan blood to raise Klingons and Humans on high?
I won't digress about the laughable balance of pvp because it's so laughable it makes me want to cry but the FvF and KvK is considered a war game so I assume it's a simulation like the Kobayashi Maru test.
Police states are some of the founding principals of Romulan culture how dare you condescend my superior Romulan culture with barbaric notions of morality from alien cultures!
Do I want a want a war on multiple fronts...maybe you haven't been paying attention but that's exactly what our so called alliance has brought us into. Breen , Cardassian , Dominion , the list goes on and on. And how are we repaid by doing this? By making our allies stronger while we get weaker.
Every day I lose more and more Romulan blood for wars that aren't even our wars because of this insulting alliance we're being dragged into an endless conflict we can't win.
I laughed out loud when an alliance with the Federation was proposed. Seriously have all Romulans gone mad? Do you forget in our hour of need we turned to our Vulcan brothers and they wouldn't lift a finger to save our home world? Why because they wanted us dead we're an embarrassment and a threat to them they'd rather be rid of us than aid us. Oh sure several members of the Federation gave a formal protest to the Vulcans by removing their ambassadors but I think we both know they were hoping in their hearts this was the last they would see of us. It was no different than the Dominion war where the federation condemned the attack on the founders but really they wanted the Tal shiar to succeed only they wanted to come out of it as the humans say smelling like a rose.
Klingons are even worse we were right to attack first at Khitomer how long do you think before the Klingons had turned on us? An insult to their Grandmother is reason enough for them to start a war. Look at the Federation Klingon pact , didn't take long for that to crumble and lets face it the federation are far more willing to bend over backwards to keep the peace than we are.
I'm only sorry to say we never finished the job of wiping out the barbaric brutes.
No we are alone in this the very thought of a Federation or Klingon Alliance is little more than an illusion and to be quite frank my cloaking device is far better at making a more believable illusion than this facade is.
(phew that was a lot to comment on all at once.)
(Reply in character because it is fun.)
"You have some correct views. D'tan may not be the best praetor for a new regime. But he is an excellent motivator for building the foundation for one. Obisek will most likely succeed D'tan one day and military supremacy will come more to bear.
But where you are in error is that the Tal Shiar and their puppet empress represent the Empire. Had the Empire come to Virinat and called for able souls to march beneath the wings as soldiers they would have had hundreds of volunteers. Had they come and said 'Virinat was the breadbasket of the Empire. With your hard work and dedication to the cause we shall build stronger and better than before!' We would have worked even more to support our Empire in it's time of need. But they ignored us, we did not declare independance. We did not rebel against the Empire. Did the Empire go after those that had? NO. They chose to call in aliens and assault their own citizens because it was far safer. In Hakeev's words we needed to know our place. And in his words all romulans needed to remember it. I am sure you saw it. As dinner for his alien masters. This is what they sought. We joined D'tan because we were cut off from the Empire by leaders Of the blessed Empire. Did the precious Tal Shiar try and rebuild us? No, they chose to find a new set of 'masters'. Under D'tan we build a Romulan home, not one as chattel for others. Why work with the Federation or the klingons? Because as the humans learned from us. You keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
You think we have forgotten how convenient it is for the Federation to need to ignore an issue because of their prime directive? How they can allow others to fight their battles because 'It might work'? Or that we have forgotten that Klingons and their allies claim the best Romulan is a dead one?
No, we remember. And our memories are long. Let them sit in the dark and wonder when and how they will be reminded of their own slights against us. Till then we have the food of the Federation to feed our populace till we can sow our own farms. And the blades of the klingons turned away from us till they look back and realize they no longer can strike without losing their arm.
If you be a true Romulan, bide your time and await our day of judgement."
(OOC) I can dress a reman in regular Republic gear, but they have their own specific Republic Reman clothes?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
If you be a true Romulan, bide your time and await our day of judgement."
I shall bide my time , for the time is soon when the Romulan people shall rise again from the ashes like a phoenix and on that day the brainwashed pretender shall burn in the flames of the rebirth of our Romulan Empire! Then never again shall a Romulan bow a knee to alien filth! For Romulus and the Star Empire!!
Three squads of Tal'Diann military police beam in, weapons at the ready, and round up all those members of the military who've been spreading seditious talk. Their platoon leader addresses the prisoners: "By the authority of the Tal'Diann, you are all under arrest on suspicion of treason and conspiracy. We will transport you back to Mol'Rihan for trial." He signals the cloaked ship in orbit, and the MPs and prisoners are beamed directly to the brig, where the prisoners are placed in holding cells. Fleet Admiral t'Prell of the Tal'Diann strolls in and surveys the prisoners, shakes her head, and contacts the bridge. "Subcommander Khev, set course for Mol'Rihan. I'm sure our guests will be eager to get into larger quarters there. Inform the JAG office that we have them and to prepare for our arrival. Oh, and let Melani D'ian, the leader of our allies, know as well. Imagine these people thinking that the Klingons are still in control of what is now the Orion Empire." She then turns and walks out, with a "Tsk tsk tsk."
As to my thoughts on D'tan well he just doesn't feel like a Romulan to me for all we know he could be a Vulcan infiltrator sent by Spock to undermine Romulan society to mold it into what the Vulcan's want.<.<>.> Yes he may not speak for the entire Romulan population but I've yet to see anyone speak of Romulan conquest and glory. No it's just lets just survive so we can get back to making more Romulan ale kinda talk.
Obisek seems more Romulan than D'tan and that concerns me.
Anyways that's my thoughts on it.
Reunification does not mean "Romulans must surrender emotion and passion." It means restoring emotion and passion to the Vulcans, while accepting that their current perspective is not entirely without merit. It's not a one-sided thing in which Romulans become Vulcans. Remember that Spock rejected Kolinahr and went on to start the Reunification movement, precisely because Vulcan Logic is insufficient without emotion and passion, and is misguided. I wrote at greater length about this some time ago in this post.
Quoted for the unfortunate truth, and the trend in this game.
And D'Tan is a damn fool for selling his people and power base out to the Federation and Klingons. The Romulan Republic will get the support and materials to build New Romulus. But the price? Watching their own ships and blood of the Republic splatter across the quadrant in matters that originally did not concern the Romulans nor even the old Romulan Star Empire.
They could have had a better chance in reestablishing relations with Empress Sela, most especially after Hakeev's demise. She never has been fond of the Tal Shiar and the road of ruin Hakeev has set upon. And Sela only cares about ONE thing:
The preservation of Romulan power and its standing among its rivals.
D'Tan could have cut some better deal with Sela and reunify Romulan power.
But then again, D'Tan is a seperatist through and through in his goal of reunifying with the Vulcans.
Why would any Romulan ever choose to support Sela? Her megalomaniacal and power-hungry derriere authorized Hirogen to hunt Romulan citizens. If she ever shows up again, I hope I'm the one who gets to expose her to thalaron radiation and watch her writhe in agony as she dies.
I have thought of Romulans as a separate faction as well, and I have an idea.
Since creating an entirely new set of missions would be quite resource draining.. perhaps we can have a faster tweak in gameplay.
Add a new reputation system for Romulans..
At level 50, you receive a hail from a Tal Shiar agent.
They inform you that they have observed your progress, and are interested in your command ability. Also, they are willing to overlook your past actions against the Tal Shiar. Furthermore, Hakeev is dead, Empress Sela is missing, so right now the chain of command is kinda different. The main task that you are assigned is to discover whether the Feds or KDFs have any ulterior motives in the alliance, and to see if your allies are exploiting Romulan tech in any way. You don't have to give the Tal Shiar contact a final answer.. but instead you gain access to a new kind of reputation system that would truly give the word 'Reputation' a meaning.
While I do sort of like your suggested rep system, I simply cannot let this business about the Tal'Shiar overlooking my past actions against them go unchallenged. Excuse me? What about their past actions against me, my friends, my family, my entire world? Who started this aggression, after all? It wasn't me. I was a peaceful farmgirl on an agricultural colony world minding my own business when THEY showed up and started killing.
Personally i think they went with the romulans merging because they can't balance the 2 factions we have so how would they do with 3.
If they had made romulans a third faction a small part of feds might switch and most kdf would because face it if you want a cloak and even better pew pew romulans do both better.
I would have preferred the romulans be a third faction both for RP and because games with 3 factions tend to be more interesting in pvp but i can see why they did't.
while I Do Sort Of Like Your Suggested Rep System, I Simply Cannot Let This Business About The Tal'shiar Overlooking My Past Actions Against Them Go Unchallenged. Excuse Me? What About Their Past Actions Against Me, My Friends, My Family, My Entire World? Who Started This Aggression, After All? It Wasn't Me. I Was A Peaceful Farmgirl On An Agricultural Colony World Minding My Own Business When They Showed Up And Started Killing.
thank You!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Fleets were a main concern. New players would enjoy starting as Romulans, but all us veterans would be irritated, to say the least, at having to start over building a Starbase. If they did this any other way many of us would never have made a Romulan. I find their solution to be perfect.
Fleets were a main concern. New players would enjoy starting as Romulans, but all us veterans would be irritated, to say the least, at having to start over building a Starbase. If they did this any other way many of us would never have made a Romulan. I find their solution to be perfect.
Except ... I'm in three different fleets now, and many new fleets were made for the Romulans when LoR came out.
Well, my fleet has been since launch. I would never leave. I created it with my son and we have put too many hours building it to leave.
Who said anything about leaving? My Orion is still in the same fleet she's been in since she joined a fleet. My Vulcan ... well, she's been through two fleets in the past, but she's still in the third (the one she last joined), and has no plans to leave any time soon. My Orion-allied Romulan started her own fleet -- mostly because I keep hoping that the Romulans will eventually be an authentic third faction and not have to be in fleets connected to Starfleet or the KDF.
Fleets were a main concern. New players would enjoy starting as Romulans, but all us veterans would be irritated, to say the least, at having to start over building a Starbase. If they did this any other way many of us would never have made a Romulan. I find their solution to be perfect.
The Romulan fleet I'm in is a very dedicated Romulan community. I don't doubt even for a second that all the members would agree on building a Romulan starbase from scratch.
However, I do get Cryptic's reasoning behind this. What I think they should allow is a special project that allows fleets to re-skin the starbase into a Romulan one. They can even use some of the existing templates like the Gasko station or similar. That would allow fleets that want to go full Romulan get a romulan skin for let's say 200k dilithium (like any other vanity project).
If a Tal'Shiar reputation system or 'mini-storyline' is ever introduced I hope it is so by means of a mission on which our crew, republic Boffs, and allied power Boffs mutiny and we, those Boffs loyal to us instead of a faction (the odd ones we did get along the way), and our new Tal'Shiar buddies have to kill them all inside our ship. Then we receive a complement of Tal'Shiar ones and off we go.
Given the sheer amount of grief Thovan did cause it would be a stunning success.
While I do sort of like your suggested rep system, I simply cannot let this business about the Tal'Shiar overlooking my past actions against them go unchallenged. Excuse me? What about their past actions against me, my friends, my family, my entire world? Who started this aggression, after all? It wasn't me. I was a peaceful farmgirl on an agricultural colony world minding my own business when THEY showed up and started killing.
They were making someone who later developments would show to be a crazy talented individual able to lead armies and save the universe on a weekly basis do low level manual work. The Romulan gene pool is very grateful to the Tal'Shiar for that one attack.
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I was not talking about democracy, I was making a real-life comparison. You make it sound like just because D'Tan is reunifiocacionist suddenly all Romulans will become reunifiocacionists.
Just like (I'm going to use the other side now so there is no confusion) if the American president is a Republican, that should mean that all Americans are Republicans, right?
The Republic a dictatorship? LOL!!! Why, because you talk to the leader and don't see the whole senate and discuss politics with them in game? *facepalm*
That probably means that the Federation is a military-police state, since I've never seen Aennik Okeg and I only talk to Admirals, usually Quinn.
If the President of my country decides he wants to follow religion, move to a monastery and become a monk, it's no concern of mine. That doesn't mean that my contry will sudenly turn into a religious state just because of 1 man. That means he'll leave his position and another elected President will take the seat.
Therefore, what the leader of the Romulan Republic wants to do with his own life is of no concern to me, as long as he does his duty as the head of the Romulan Republic properly. So far he's doing just fine. If he tries to steer off, then we'll have this discussion.
And I don't know about your crew, but my crew of 150 people are pretty tight, mostly friends from colony worlds with long lasting relations. We all share the vision of Mol'Rihan, no need for mutiny here.
Funny, you described just what the Tal'Shiar is doing - making you a cannon fodder for other aliens, like.....I don't know....the Elachi/Iconians? Actually worse, they transform you into an Elachi! :eek:
Do you play the game or just post on the forum?
Then you really must have thrown up a lot while watching TOS.
Yes, because after war followed by 200 years of isolation and no contact, it's suddenly the Vulcans' fault that the Romulans decided to blow up their own homeworld. :rolleyes:
Wow, you really must think Klingons are that dumb. Yeah, they'll just start a war with the Romulan Republic for no aparent reason because, you know, that's just what they need. I mean they're already fighting on like 6-7 fronts, so what's one more for them right?
The Klingons know that the Republic being allied to both Fed. & KDF is the only way to balance things. If they lose the alliance with the RR, it will be 2 on 1 war against them, something that they're aware they can't handle.
So.......
Which one is it? Are we groveling beggars asking for hand outs or the superior race that will crush it's enemies?
I agree, that's why I don't understand why you complained that there will never be a Romulan on the Klingon High Council. They're allies, allies does not mean they are a part of each other, it means they cooperate and work together.
And I don't know what errands you're doing, but the only errands I do are the ones I set myslef to do and ones that benefit the Republic.
Interesting, that's just how DS9 begun. Yeah, that went well....
Oh, so Feds. and Klingons can do war games, but Romulans can't? Wow, Romulans must really suck at simulations!
Riiiight....I really recomend watching TOS.
Yeah, multiple fronts we fight on back to back with the 2 other superpowers of the quadrant, as oposed to fighting all of that alone.
And the Federation obviously wants all Romulans dead, that's why they're helping establish the Romulan Republic. :rolleyes:
Need I remind you who was the first to commit a genocide on Khitomer???
The Federation betrayed the alliance with the Klingons on several ocassions. Klingons and Federation obviously have different ideas of what an alliance means. Besides, Starfleet is infested with Undine and they didn't want to listen to the Klingon warnings. That's what the war is all about.
POV. I can't argue with anyone's pov, it is what it is. To me it makes perfect sense given the lore about the developments in the last 20 years.
I am well aware of what you were saying but I felt the need to digressing some. Yes D'tan is an individual bravo great deduction there...oh wait you can say that about any character in the game. Yes there are individuals in the game but D'tan is not only a character in the game but a representative of what the Romulan republic stands for and therefore most likely a representation of the Republic.
I base my opinion on what's presented to me I don't know what you base your opinions on but I generally have to have something to go on.
I believe I answered this in my above reply.
How do we know it's worse it might be very pleasant being an Elachi.:P Yes the Tal'shiar are using people I'll call them borg 2.0 but my point still stands Klingons and Feds are still using Romulans too.
Do you just try to belittle people in an attempt to win your argument or is it just your pleasant personality?:rolleyes:
Possibly but not for that reason.:P
So it's okay to turn away from a request to save billions if you don't like them? That almost sounds like an emotional reaction to me but no that can't be Vulcans are above prejudice.
I've been talking partly in a Role playing tone I'm surprised you haven't picked that up but to answer your question I think J'mpok said it best "only in battle is a Klingon truly a Klingon". They're always looking for the next fight and as far as I've seen need little provocation while lacking restraint.
We once were and can be again the Superiors of the alpha quadrant but we're doomed to become beggars if we continue down D'tan's path.
As well as the preemptive strike by the Tal Shiar. How many ships again was that they lost for basically nothing?
They're not simulations when they're actually battling the opposite factions is it really that hard to grasp?
Yes why didn't I think of that yes those two super power will be of great help to us...to bad they're spending all their time killing each other.
Am I detecting the hint of a Klingon player in your voice? That would explain why you're take this so personally.
Anyways this has gotten way to long so if you have any more comments please try to keep it short this is waaaay to much to reply too.
I think a lot of players, who know Star Trek and canon, are happy that there is some new Romulan content, whilst also disappointed that it has been bolted-on to the existing two main factions, so that Romulan ships are not part of their own Romulan fleet. I think before most started to play it, most would have expected to be playing within a Romulan fleet.
I haven't counted-up which faction has the most 'unique' missions or episodes - and whilst it may be a point of interest, it doesn't really alter the fact that the Romulan ships are not part of a Romulan fleet or force, and this is essentially where what we have sits uneasy with me.
OK, you can argue that, per the storyline, that New Romulas hasn't developed enough to really have a fleet of its own - despite managing to have a Flotilla - and there is the practical real-world argument that it was the economical way to introduce Romulan content to the existing game.
Fine. But New Romulas will develop. That shuttle that I've been working on so much, in The Staging Area, WILL FLY AGAIN!
As a long-time Star Trek fan, even given the precarious state of Romulan existence, and that there is a new Government and a "Republic" in charge, not an "Empire", I don't believe that The Romulans would have individually aligned themselves with either The Klingons or the Federation. I just don't see that as in their fundamental nature. They would have wanted their own independent fleet, no matter how limited it was, because they only really have New Romulas to protect anyway now, but also because it would have been theirs.
That does not mean that they would not want to continue to receive aid and assistance. You can still go there and chase epohhs.
So I regard this joining the KDF/Federation option purely as a game mechanic which I hope disappears in the future, so that there is an independent Romulan faction, which can have its own problems, such as the continuing threat of the remnants of the Tal Shiar and whatever Sela might return and come-up with (or perhaps the daughter of Sela - a 1/4 human, 1/4 Romulan, 1/2 Iconion...still played by Denise Crosby...just an idea...).
For me, I hope that this new content is a door to more future content, and a more independent Romulan faction, regardless of whether it is bigger or smaller than the KDF one - and I frankly don't see the argument made about it adversely affecting PVP, which is purely a game mechanic where you can take on other players, regardless of what faction they are part of and can therefore be ignored in terms of how the storyline and canon goes. If anything, this should enhance it by giving players more options that they might want to play with.
I respect that there are economics that may well limit what we want and what we ultimately get, but as Romulans have been part of Star Trek since TOS and are a firmly established race, I regard the storyline of aligning them individually with either the Federation or the Klingons as a choice for each player/individual as something that a Star Trek series or movie would never do - so even if the game can, it shouldn't have.
Now having done so, I again state that I very much hope that this changes in the future and that New Romulas develops to the point where The Romulans can have their own independent fleet.
Quite simply, without that, they are not Romulans.
I don't believe that one man, even being the current leader of the Romulan Republic can himself represent every single citizen of the Republic. He has his interests in reunification, that much is obvious, but that doesn't mean that he's about to throw/force the whole Republic into reunification with Vulcan. He's well aware that most of the Romulans are not into the reunification thing, he just wanted to help Romulans found a new home, because his group was already existant, well coordinated and experienced with fighting against the Tal'Shiar. Not everyone could pull this Republic thing off. You even have Tovan Khev on your ship that in one of the mission says that he's not quite supportive of the reunification with Vulcan.
And what about the Remans? D'Tan made them equals in the Republic, whatever reason would they have for reunification with Vulcan?
I base my opinions by what I see in game and the lore the devs. write. As a Romulan/Reman - the reunification was mentioned only 1 time to me, and it was by either Temer or Nadel (I don't remember which one), never from D'Tan. He only spoke about the Romulans comming together to forge a better future for themselves.
Ofcourse they are. Would you expect anyone to go willingly into yet another war out of the kindess of their hearts? But, so are Romulans using the Feds. and Klingons. They use their resources to build Mol'Rihan, they use their ships and their fleets to fight off the Tal'Shiar and their allies.
You take some and you give some. Actually playing the both sides for your own interests is much more Romulan than the Tal'Shiar variant that basically is - an armada attacks your colony, Hakeev's ugly face shows on the screens and tells you "Please keep calm. Nothing to worry about. The Elachi mothership will be picking you up any minute now!".
Sorry, that was not my intention. I was just genuinely confused that you'd prefer being a cannon fodder for the Tal'Shiar, than to other "alien" species, especially given the happenings in the Romulan storyline.
First of all, there was no official request. The Romulan government was either blinded by the Tal'Shiar or was ignoring the issue on purpose. No Romulan representative asked the Federation for assistance. It was Spock asking the Vulcan Science Academy for help. It was all done through backdoors and alternate routes and that was the problem. The Federation Council condemned that when they found out.
Why didn't Spock appeal to the Federation council in the first place? Well, there's Kurtzman and Orci's stellar writing for ya'.
Besides, why does everyone expect the Federation to take care and allways save everyone? Being the good guys and not creating a big mess in the galaxy themselves does not mean that they would go out of their way, sacrificing the lives of their own people to clean up the mess someone made on himself.
And furthermore, the Vulcans were the ones that gave Spock the red matter. So they did help eventually. They just ran out of time not because of them, but because the supernova happened sooner than expected and it went through subspace. On Romulus it was not expected for another 2 weeks. You can thank Tal'Shiar and their allies for that, noone can save you if you're that determined to jump of the roof of a building. If it was natural, Spock would have made it and the Vulcans would have came through for the Romulans even if they were reluctant at first.
True, J'mpok says that. And the Klingon Empire is currently at war with: the Federation, the Fek'ihri, the Undine, the Borg, the Tholians, the Breen, the True Way and now the Tal'Shiar as well due to helping the Republic. Don't you think they have enough battles, so they can consider accepting a hand in friendship from one of the few factions that actually try to be friendly with them?
Actually, D'Tan has positioned the Romulan Republic so they have a lot of influence again. Currently neither the KDF or the Feds. can afford not cooperating with the RR, because that would mean a vast advantage for the other one. D'Tan's vision and ideas, especially after making friends out of the Remans are the best path for the Romulans to climb back to their former glory and relevance.
The other option is full civil war that is currently happening in the RSE terittories, with warlords fighting for their own interests and domain, resulting with hundreds of starships lost and bilions of Romulans and Remans dead. That's the best path for becomming a beggar.
That was Tal'Shiar's arrogance, or should I say - utter stupidity at it's best.
So, you see, even then the Romulans knew that the Dominion is a threat they'll have to deal with eventually. But in their arogance, they decided to do it alone as an intelligence agency together with the Obsidian Order - another intellignece agency. As far as we know, the official Cardassian government had no idea that the Obsidian Order is building an armanda to fight the Dominion and we can assume that the Romulan government had no idea about Tal'Shiar's operations as well. So they didin't even ask for help from their own militaries, God forbid asking the Federation and the Klingion Empire for help in the operation. It costed them a fine number of very strong ships that were lost in an ambush.
And if the Romulans were even then aware that the Dominion is a global threat, why would the Romulan Republic ignore that fact now. Especially given that they experienced the burn of 'do it yourself' once before. Why wouldn't they leave the arrogance behind and coordiante with Starfleet and the KDF if it saves them ships and valuable lives?
No, considering PvP by any stretch relevant for the storyline in the game is what is really really hard to grasp.
So battling the opposite faction is the actual war, right?
Riiight, cause that's what factions at war usually do. They kill a few hundred of my men, I kill a few hunderd of theirs, then D'Vak calls and we merily join forces to fight the Borg. :rolleyes:
And nothing sounds as a war better than sharing a mug of bloodwine in Quark's bar with that Klingon captain that ordered the stealth attack that killed 200 of my men. :rolleyes:
Let's be honest here - the PvP is not by any stretch relevant to anything that is currently happening in STO's storyline. The devs. didn't care at the very least when the made the content, why should we care? I get it, it's ridiculous, I feel the same.
But the fact is that Romulans are not killing other Romulans for the Fed. or KDF because of the PvP. Because the whole relation between the storyline and PvP is currently a total joke. It's a day at the circus, no way that 90% of the stuff going on in STO would happen if PvP was really relevant in any form, be it FvF, KvK or FvK. It just is irrelevant.
And this quote here is yet another example of why PvP is irrelevant to the story.
LOL:D I guess I was talking partly in a RP tone myself.
But, I don't take it personally, the facts are facts - the Romulans were the first to attack Khitomer and commit a genocide against the civilian population, so you can't really blame it on the Klingons for taking Khitomer back when the RSE was weak.
Also another fact - the Klingons expect support from the ones that claim to be their allies. They warned the Federation about the Undine, even brought proof of them infiltrating the Gorn Hegemony and other factions and how did the Federation react? They told them to leave the Gorn alone and that there are no such things as Undine.
It's not about being personal in those cases, it's about being objective.
You claim PvP is part of a game mechanic and I can accept that but then surely you must agree Romulans siding with the Klingons plus the Federation at the same time is also another game mechanic?
Romulans are a proud , paranoid , and distrustful race by nature you can't just wipe away years of cultural distrust with a single gesture. They may have no choice for now but I can not see this alliance lasting very long if the Romulans behave like the ones we know and love from the series.
Now the devs obviously have no intention to commit to making them a 100% faction so I'm proposing to remove this "game mechanic" without having to make a bunch of extra content. Say the alliance talks break down as part of end game content. Not all out war but not buddy buddy we're all one happy fleet flying together.
That way the faction can be separate but not tagged as Fed or Klingon.
Now of course not everyone would want to leave there Klingon and Fed fleets but I would add that they could be classified as captains that have gone rogue and not part of Romulan Republic so everyone can be on the side they truly want.
As to my thoughts on D'tan well he just doesn't feel like a Romulan to me for all we know he could be a Vulcan infiltrator sent by Spock to undermine Romulan society to mold it into what the Vulcan's want.<.<>.> Yes he may not speak for the entire Romulan population but I've yet to see anyone speak of Romulan conquest and glory. No it's just lets just survive so we can get back to making more Romulan ale kinda talk.
Obisek seems more Romulan than D'tan and that concerns me.
Anyways that's my thoughts on it.
Quoted for the unfortunate truth, and the trend in this game.
And D'Tan is a damn fool for selling his people and power base out to the Federation and Klingons. The Romulan Republic will get the support and materials to build New Romulus. But the price? Watching their own ships and blood of the Republic splatter across the quadrant in matters that originally did not concern the Romulans nor even the old Romulan Star Empire.
They could have had a better chance in reestablishing relations with Empress Sela, most especially after Hakeev's demise. She never has been fond of the Tal Shiar and the road of ruin Hakeev has set upon. And Sela only cares about ONE thing:
The preservation of Romulan power and its standing among its rivals.
D'Tan could have cut some better deal with Sela and reunify Romulan power.
But then again, D'Tan is a seperatist through and through in his goal of reunifying with the Vulcans.
The Federation government isn't reflected in the game either. By your logic Admiral Quinn is the Dictator of the Federation.
Ah that statement is incorrect because we have at least five other admirals , Admiral Valoth , Admiral Grigori Yanishev , Admiral Quinn , and Admiral T'nae not to mention the numerous Vice admirals.
So best you could argue would be an oligarchy. Granted we don't see representative leaders of the Federation nations but there's certainly more command structure there than a single leader.
All I could find for the Romulans that was even close to that was Admiral Kerkerek and he's obviously superseded in rank by D'tan.
I guess it could be possible that the Romulan group is so small they have no real command structure but I would expect to see at least a few more people such as senators that are equivalent in rank besides Kerkerek or D'tan.
Agreed. It's just in this game, unlike many others, these 2 mechanics are not properly synchronized resulting with one trumping the other in story relevance.
I slightly disagree here. I don't think that Romulans have those atributes by nature, but more by a way of life or dare I say....indoctrination. I'm saying this because they basically branched off the Vulcan species, so I don't see it as a natural result like for ex. the Klingon agression that is explained by the tinted axis and rotation cycles of Qo'noS, resulting with every species on the planet developing agressive tendencies even at the earliest stages of evolution.
I agree that those are the Romulans we saw in the shows and that those are the Romulans that people came to love and expect to be in STO. However that might be an over-generalisation of the race. 90% of the Romulans we saw in Star Trek were trained military personel and the other 10% we saw were either sharing those ideals or the complete opposite - being afraid of the regime or followers of the reunification movement.
However, while I like the Romulans we have in STO for being new and fresh and possibly providing an outlook on the other side of the coin that is their species, I can certainly understand the pepole who are bummed and dissapointed for not having the Romulans that, let's face it - everyone expected before we found out the format of the Romulan faction.
I admire your optimism, but unfortunatley I don't believe that proper separation will ever happen in STO, furthermore we'll have new factions (ex.Cardassians) implemented on the same standards. The devs. have made this perfectly clear.
And also that would mean that the captains that decided to stick with Fed/KDF and not fall back in the Romulan faction will be in a great advanage using Fed./KDF toys, consoles and equipment. It would also mean that the other factions get access to Romulan ships. As someone who has been on the forum for quite a while, I can guarantee that this would also create forum whinings of epic proportions that will cause the server to shut down.
I really see no way for what has already be done to be turned back, ever.
The way I see D'Tan is that he is a man of peace. And talking about Romulan conquest and glory would sound a bit premature, given the condition of the Romulan society in STO.
D'Tan doesn't overally concern me, because I don't expect him to be in the position of a leader forever. The way I see it, he's in that position because in the aftermath of the destruction of Romulus and Remus, the skirmishes between so called 'leaders' and all that Tal'Shiar is doing, he was the leader of a well organized movement, with many members that stick together and have years of expereince in evading and fighting the Tal'Shiar. He simply was the person in the best position to pull off the New Romulus thing and that's why he's currently the leader. It wouldn't suprise me if in a future season he steps down or a new Praetor is ellected and he'd work only as an advisor or ambasador to Vulcan or sth.
Sorry, I just had to adress this point as well
Sela only cares about ONE thing: Her own posterior and position in power.
And she even fails at that. She's the ultimate Star Trek fail. Donatra on the other hand, I can work with, pitty Cryptic borgified her, but Sela? Shove that multiverse halfiling out of the airlock before she brings fail to our ship as well! :P
That would work for me. It offers a choice and a chance to be an independent Romulan.
Well I hope you are wrong or at least they can be talked round. This is and should be a Star Trek game, not a game called Star Trek - a subtle but important distinction.
I am inclined to agree with your point that we did generally only see the military side of the Romulans, and when not, they were still acting within a military or police state and empire. Now all that has changed, giving the opportunity for D'Tan to step-in and be the idealist and change things.
Even so, The Romulans are still a proud race and as vonhellsting pointed out, they are not going to be an entirely different people over-night. Quite frankly, aside from the "baddie" Tal Shiar, the Romulan Republic could be any alien Republic, only recognisable as Romulan from the use of the same ships.
The Ferengi are reknowned traders (privateers, even) and The Romulans are reknowned as cunning and manipulative - but also dutiful. Yes, these traits were primarily from characters acting within the Romulan imperial heirachy, but as someone mentioned before (somewhere), Romulan DOff traits generally include "cunning". So it hasn't completely gone - and it shouldn't have.
Let's see more of it - and as with the first Romulan we saw, who was evidently very cunning (I refer of course to the Romulan ship Captain played with such great depth for such a one-off role by the late Mark Lenard in Balance of Terror, that he came back as the character of Spock's Father, for which he will always be known for) - The Romulans are a race with multiple facets to them, and "cunning" does not necessarily mean "evil".
Bolting them on to the KDF or Federation may be an ideal way for the devs to incorporate them into the game; leaving them that way does not do them, or Star Trek, justice.
So pretty please, with sugar on top...you can guess the rest...;)
Perhaps by nature was a poor choice of words I wasn't exactly thinking instinctual behavior but more like it's second nature to them. In other words they do it without really thinking about it. Like when a child picks up a mothers reaction to something and emulates it , this kind of social behavior is very hard to root out because we don't even realize we're teaching it. It's very subtle but even the simplest of reactions like a gesture of the eyes may cause a child to form an opinion of something based off little more than a movement of the eyes or facial gesture.
Although it maybe a hereditary trait too. If we look back at the episode where Spock goes back in time through that time portal I forget what the episode is called but you probably know the one. Which was before they developed their control over their emotions Spock became very violent and paranoid.
Also if we look at the pon farr Vulcans can and do become very violent. This behavior though is normally suppressed through their mental disciplines. I would say the normal behavior of Vulcans is really a very poor example of what Romulan nature maybe like given at a very early age they are taught to suppress their natural behavior. If anything Romulans are more like that the Vulcans are trying to suppress given that's the very reason they left was they didn't want to give up those emotions.
It maybe an over generalization but when we get something that seems so out of character with what you were expecting then you're not getting the full experience of trek. You're getting a diet version it tastes sorta similar but it's not the same thing. I mean it's like if we went to Vulcan and all the Vulcans were having emotional out bursts and they told us this how they really behave everyone else we saw on screen was just a very select group of Vulcan monks. Some people might accept it but most would want the Vulcans as we were lead to believe they behaved.
Well I'm not exactly optimistic it will happen but if we don't ask there's absolutely no chance it will happen. No harm in asking as they say and people did say the same thing about a Romulan faction but they were thankfully wrong there.
Well don't get me wrong I don't mind D'tan I might even like him if not for the fact he's presented as the head of the Romulan Republic.
A leader generally should represent the interests of it's culture. Hitler was a fascist , Stallion a Communist , Churchhill a representative democrat....well okay some may argue that but you get the point. Now either he's an odd ball who is not representing republic properly or he's a representation of this new Republics ideals and we got something that's nothing like the Romulans most of us want to play.
Either way I hope they make changes to this.
Since creating an entirely new set of missions would be quite resource draining.. perhaps we can have a faster tweak in gameplay.
Add a new reputation system for Romulans..
At level 50, you receive a hail from a Tal Shiar agent.
They inform you that they have observed your progress, and are interested in your command ability. Also, they are willing to overlook your past actions against the Tal Shiar. Furthermore, Hakeev is dead, Empress Sela is missing, so right now the chain of command is kinda different. The main task that you are assigned is to discover whether the Feds or KDFs have any ulterior motives in the alliance, and to see if your allies are exploiting Romulan tech in any way. You don't have to give the Tal Shiar contact a final answer.. but instead you gain access to a new kind of reputation system that would truly give the word 'Reputation' a meaning.
Tal Shiar Reputation system.
+ Fame Marks for doing actions that support the Tal Shiar cause.
+ Infamity marks for doing actions that do not support the Tal Shiar cause.
These marks will lead to separate branches in the reputation tree.
So there will be two broad branches of missions to earn these marks in.
1) Missions that involve some kind of spy action towards the faction you are allied with, to gain Fame marks
2) Missions that involve some kind of spy action against Tal Shiar, to gain infamity marks
There will be DOFF missions that reflect 1 and 2 as well.
Also, we can have one new mechanic that would make PvP and PvE very intriguing and suspenseful.
New gameplay mechanic - Backstabbing
You may now backstab allied Fed or KDF in PvE or PvP. (some of you might stop reading here and judge, please continue to read)
So lets say for example in a PvE scenario against Borg, there are 3 Fed and 2 Roms. At any point during the PvE scenario, any one Romulan ship can 'force fire' upon the Feds. When the Romulan chooses this option, the 3 Fed turn from 'blue allies' to 'red enemies' and they may return fire. The other Rom then has a choice whether he wants to assist his Rom Republic ally, or Fed ally. If the other Rom ship attacks the Feds too he will be considered ally to the other Romulan ship. For successful destruction of the all Fed vessels, without letting a single one warp away, the Romulan ship that initiated and the assisting ship will gain Fame marks. If the Romulans are unsuccessful, and even one Fed ship warps away, he'll alert the rest of the Federation of the betrayal, and the Romulan ships gain no marks, and they receive a 'traitor' penalty that makes them unable to queue with whomever they were allied with for maybe 4 hours.
Storyline rationale/premise of backstabbing - you are attacking the vessels in hopes of disabling at least some of them, to acquire intel regarding whether the Feds or Klingons are exploiting the Romulans.
If the other romulan ship decides not to assist the initiating attack, but instead to help the KDF or Fed, he may, and he gains infamity marks for successful defense against a betraying Romulan vessel.
All KDF and Fed faction by default earn only Tal Shiar Infamity Marks.
Only Romulans have the option of Tal Shiar Fame Marks.
As they continue to do these, they can gain more marks and get Reputation tree related rewards.
It'd open up the game to a new way of playing... and make any scenario queued with a Romulan very suspenseful.
The griefing potential, and the amount of QQ it would justifiably generate, would kill the game.
STO should not ever try to compete with EVE, even if I do already have more spreadsheets for STO than I ever did for EVE.
As to the back stabbing there's three main problems I can see with that.
1. players like predictability generally they work hard to get the perfect builds to win suddenly you throw in randomness and they're losing to no fault of their own which will lead to a lot of angry players.
2. I figure most player would back stab if the odds were in their favor leaving no risk for the Romulans while the other players would run a risk of losing just for playing the game. Not to mention pre made gank fests that would just own everyone.
Also given the option to back stab just about every player is going to choose backstabbing over loyalty.
3. Faction composition would be a logistical nightmare. For it to be fair you'd need a certain number of traitors vs normal player. The logistics alone of getting that to work and still giving everyone an equal chance to win would cripple the already long query system. Not to mention the devs can barely deal with the bugs in the program as is this would probably be the nail in the coffin for an already struggling system.
It's an interesting idea and I give you points for thinking outside the box but personally I just can't see it working.
The problems you guys foresee make sense..
One of you mentioned that backstabbing would make people angry? Well... isn't that the whole point? Haha. The Romulans, weren't they known to be dishonorable backstabbers and that was why the Klingons hated them so much... So backstabbing and pissing people off would make people feel very 'canon', haha.
But I agree, gameplay wise, the likelihood of people getting pissed off and stop playing would be higher than those getting pissed off and realizing that this might be how people living in trekverse really felt against the Romulans.
Id just like to toss my support for these 2 things
Someone didnt pay attention during the intro... the Military and the Tal Shiar are 2 separate factions fighting for whats left of the Romulan Empire
which I don't understand...we are romulans we are aligned with both Klingons and federation....and as such why should we choose Klingon or federation.....why do we only have ships from one side or the other......makes zero sense...in fact npcs state we should get help from both groups or get items from both....yet we cant.
The missions literally refer to you as a Klingon or federation....which is not correct....the actual npcs mess up and give dialogue for federation or Klingon and then add in romulan things making it sound weird and incorrect.
Sort of like D'Tan saying his speech to the reman leader.....about how they must over come the problems with the romulans....but then refer to remans later?!?!?
In the mission where you are supposed to explore a big space station and find out about thaloran weapons......you have 4 choices on how to sneak in......if you try the other no non-romulan choices for some reason they semi work I found the engineer one and science ones didn't work...not sure why they are even shown then....as I had to do the romulan thing to get into the base.
The actual reman leader in that mission messes up and refers to you both as a trusted ally and spy and enemy......
Yes you are his ally....but he has to destroy you because you are a Klingon or federation person and cannot understand romulans....then finishes with a message saying he is busy and has to leave and doesn't have time to speak to you his trusted ally.....
>_<;
So there I am having chosen the Klingon side to work with.....and I get told by the federation you cant come to our base we only let groups we are allied with go there.....?!?!?
I truly wanted to be a Tal SHiar.....it made more sense to have that or be part of the d'tans resistance as choices.....but instead we get federation or Klingon and then it proceeds to break the game...as the game cant figure out if we are a romulan or not.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
(Reply in character because it is fun.)
"You have some correct views. D'tan may not be the best praetor for a new regime. But he is an excellent motivator for building the foundation for one. Obisek will most likely succeed D'tan one day and military supremacy will come more to bear.
But where you are in error is that the Tal Shiar and their puppet empress represent the Empire. Had the Empire come to Virinat and called for able souls to march beneath the wings as soldiers they would have had hundreds of volunteers. Had they come and said 'Virinat was the breadbasket of the Empire. With your hard work and dedication to the cause we shall build stronger and better than before!' We would have worked even more to support our Empire in it's time of need. But they ignored us, we did not declare independance. We did not rebel against the Empire. Did the Empire go after those that had? NO. They chose to call in aliens and assault their own citizens because it was far safer. In Hakeev's words we needed to know our place. And in his words all romulans needed to remember it. I am sure you saw it. As dinner for his alien masters. This is what they sought. We joined D'tan because we were cut off from the Empire by leaders Of the blessed Empire. Did the precious Tal Shiar try and rebuild us? No, they chose to find a new set of 'masters'. Under D'tan we build a Romulan home, not one as chattel for others. Why work with the Federation or the klingons? Because as the humans learned from us. You keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
You think we have forgotten how convenient it is for the Federation to need to ignore an issue because of their prime directive? How they can allow others to fight their battles because 'It might work'? Or that we have forgotten that Klingons and their allies claim the best Romulan is a dead one?
No, we remember. And our memories are long. Let them sit in the dark and wonder when and how they will be reminded of their own slights against us. Till then we have the food of the Federation to feed our populace till we can sow our own farms. And the blades of the klingons turned away from us till they look back and realize they no longer can strike without losing their arm.
If you be a true Romulan, bide your time and await our day of judgement."
(OOC) I can dress a reman in regular Republic gear, but they have their own specific Republic Reman clothes?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
I shall bide my time , for the time is soon when the Romulan people shall rise again from the ashes like a phoenix and on that day the brainwashed pretender shall burn in the flames of the rebirth of our Romulan Empire! Then never again shall a Romulan bow a knee to alien filth! For Romulus and the Star Empire!!
Reunification does not mean "Romulans must surrender emotion and passion." It means restoring emotion and passion to the Vulcans, while accepting that their current perspective is not entirely without merit. It's not a one-sided thing in which Romulans become Vulcans. Remember that Spock rejected Kolinahr and went on to start the Reunification movement, precisely because Vulcan Logic is insufficient without emotion and passion, and is misguided. I wrote at greater length about this some time ago in this post.
Why would any Romulan ever choose to support Sela? Her megalomaniacal and power-hungry derriere authorized Hirogen to hunt Romulan citizens. If she ever shows up again, I hope I'm the one who gets to expose her to thalaron radiation and watch her writhe in agony as she dies.
While I do sort of like your suggested rep system, I simply cannot let this business about the Tal'Shiar overlooking my past actions against them go unchallenged. Excuse me? What about their past actions against me, my friends, my family, my entire world? Who started this aggression, after all? It wasn't me. I was a peaceful farmgirl on an agricultural colony world minding my own business when THEY showed up and started killing.
If they had made romulans a third faction a small part of feds might switch and most kdf would because face it if you want a cloak and even better pew pew romulans do both better.
I would have preferred the romulans be a third faction both for RP and because games with 3 factions tend to be more interesting in pvp but i can see why they did't.
thank You!
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Except ... I'm in three different fleets now, and many new fleets were made for the Romulans when LoR came out.
Who said anything about leaving? My Orion is still in the same fleet she's been in since she joined a fleet. My Vulcan ... well, she's been through two fleets in the past, but she's still in the third (the one she last joined), and has no plans to leave any time soon. My Orion-allied Romulan started her own fleet -- mostly because I keep hoping that the Romulans will eventually be an authentic third faction and not have to be in fleets connected to Starfleet or the KDF.
The Romulan fleet I'm in is a very dedicated Romulan community. I don't doubt even for a second that all the members would agree on building a Romulan starbase from scratch.
However, I do get Cryptic's reasoning behind this. What I think they should allow is a special project that allows fleets to re-skin the starbase into a Romulan one. They can even use some of the existing templates like the Gasko station or similar. That would allow fleets that want to go full Romulan get a romulan skin for let's say 200k dilithium (like any other vanity project).
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Given the sheer amount of grief Thovan did cause it would be a stunning success.
They were making someone who later developments would show to be a crazy talented individual able to lead armies and save the universe on a weekly basis do low level manual work. The Romulan gene pool is very grateful to the Tal'Shiar for that one attack.