People need to stop making excuses for being fat, its not natural or realistic, only rich industrialized countries have been experiencing it in the past few decades. The old character models are realistic for the 25th century as hopefully nutrition has improved a lot by then. Maybe if your wife/girlfriend eats fast food and junk food all the time the new models are realistic for you guys, not me.
the men are still Captain Hero's with biceps, abs and a torso the size of Kink Kong with a tiny waste.
It always makes me lol when I see a male toon with shoulders twice as wide as the hips.
Not only is that ridiculous looking, it also almost never happens irl (even among professional bodybuilders ive never seen a dude that big).
I read a study once where the perfect male form has a waist/hips to shoulders ratio of .9 (the shoulders are 10 percent wider than the hips), and females are the exact opposite (about 1.12, so 12 percent wider hips than shoulders), according to the survey sample.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
Oh gawd, not this again. Remember back in Season 4 the developers spent worthless amount of weeks trying to improve the 'running animation of said Toons,
After looking on tribble i start to wonder if that patch actually really went in.. cause i ain't really seeing any huge improvements. Costumes holodeck vs tribble... tribble still looks fat and square.
And i don't even want to talk about the legs... a couple sliders there would have been an option, but what they do to em has no slider and it looks totally wrong:
They did not revert the changes in any way. They only fixed the tiny heads. The legs/hips still look terrible.
You are correct that they did not revert the changes, but the 9/27 patch changed more than just the head. They made minor adjustments to several body parts. The head is still smaller on Tribble though. The proportions still don't quite match those on Holodeck.
After looking on tribble i start to wonder if that patch actually really went in.. cause i ain't really seeing any huge improvements. Costumes holodeck vs tribble... tribble still looks fat and square.
And i don't even want to talk about the legs... a couple sliders there would have been an option, but what they do to em has no slider and it looks totally wrong:
My conjecture is that Cryptic did not test the new leg models with stances that have bent knees. The above problems may not appear when the legs are straight.
My conjecture is that Cryptic did not test the new leg models with stances that have bent knees. The above problems may not appear when the legs are straight.
True.. but then i ain't see anything that really improved on tribble so far.. head/shoulders/hips all looks wrong and the part that they supposedly tried to improve (legs) are so badly broken now in quite a few stances they have to either undo it or fix stances too :-/
I previously asked for a fix for their thighs in certain skirts, not their whole bodies.
Their bodies are "fine" now, or; im used to the configurations i have for my toons now.
Looking at the pictures in this thread make me dread that patchday.
Hello friends. Thank you for your continued feedback. We are listening and the proportion changes were an unintentional side effect of other work. And...apologies that the revert was not complete.
Soooo...in the *next* patch (or two!) your toons should be back to their familiar selves - except for slightly thinner calves as requested here and internally .
Hello friends. Thank you for your continued feedback. We are listening and the proportion changes were an unintentional side effect of other work. And...apologies that the revert was not complete.
Soooo...in the *next* patch (or two!) your toons should be back to their familiar selves - except for slightly thinner calves as requested here and internally .
PS - glad you enjoyed the texture improvements!
Thank you for that. Is good to know that is going to be fixed. And thanks to take the time and let us know.
And yes, I really liked the textures, cant wait to see the finished job, I am sure is going to be grate.
Hello friends. Thank you for your continued feedback. We are listening and the proportion changes were an unintentional side effect of other work. And...apologies that the revert was not complete.
Soooo...in the *next* patch (or two!) your toons should be back to their familiar selves - except for slightly thinner calves as requested here and internally .
PS - glad you enjoyed the texture improvements!
The complaints about female legs on Holodeck were not just about the calves being too thick. After reviewing the previous threads, I have identified three separate complaints:
The thighs are too thin on a character wearing a regular skirt when viewed from the front or the back. (By "regular skirt", I mean any skirt other than the TOS Nurse Skirt and TOS Split Skirt.)
The calves are too thin on a character wearing tight pants. Some posters also complained that this leaves a gap between the top of the boot and the calf.
The calves are too thick except when the character is wearing tight pants.
The tight-pants calves look worse on Tribble now; I'm not sure why they are thinner than the calves on other outfits. Also, the back of the thigh just above the knee looks anatomically incorrect. To see this error, choose a stance with bent knees, such as "Feminine" or "Cute", and look at the legs from the sides.
I decided to check if the male character models have also changed, and they indeed have. When a male character on Tribble is compared to the same character on Holodeck, the character on Tribble has
I think what's more worrying is how it's the female avatars being affected while the men are still Captain Hero's with biceps, abs and a torso the size of Kink Kong with a tiny waste.
While someone might point out it's built that way as a male projection fantasy, why is it allowed for men and not for women to make themselves a bit thinner, make the legs gorgeous and have a little bit more on top? That wreaks of sexism if it's not a bug.
If men are allowed to be hyper attractive with the 1.4+ waist to shoulder ratio and big, strong arms with toned legs then women should also. Though if we are moving to realism any chance of adding the beer gut, man TRIBBLE and making slightly overweight the standard for men even on minimum settings?
personally speaking, having spent a long time trying to get a realistic looking toon, i spent a while adding just the right ammount of extra stomach size to make him look a little out of shape from sitting in the chair , when i stand next to one of these hyper bulky, super tall characters its kind of annoying to be honest, specially the ones that wear the giant bulky shoulder armor , they just look silly ( exception for custom aliens, since they shouldn't conform to human standards anyway)
( by the way thats one complaint i have about the sliders for upper body, in order to get realisticly sized shoulder pad, i have to set my shoulders to have almost no bulk)
though its just as annoying either gender, ridiculous breast sizes are just as bad as overly wide/bulky shoulders ( set at maximun the breast size looks like a dodgy excessive boob job, and you'd need a structural integrity field to keep them from sagging, not to mention players, mostly male ones, have these on toons with almost no torso bulk, resulting in horrid Barbie doll characters) , I'm not saying that peoples toons have to look like average people on the street, but at least lets have the humanoid species set so they don't go to sizes that are humanly IMPOSSIBLE to attain
if you want to make giant, inhuman looking toons, MAKE AN ALIEN
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
The purpose of this post is to summarize the complaints about female legs on Holodeck, to examine the changes to the characters models on Tribble, and to point out the problems and bugs that remain after the 10/1 patch. Any comments about Tribble written below apply to the 10/1 patch. Likewise, the Tribble screenshots were taken after the 10/1 patch and before any subsequent patch.
Previous complaints about female legs
In previous discussions on this topic, there were several different complaints about female legs on Holodeck. It is important to note that these complaints are not identical, because a fix that addresses one complaint may not address the others. After reviewing the previous threads, I have identified three separate complaints:
The thighs are too thin on a character wearing a regular skirt when viewed from the front or the back. (By "regular skirt", I mean any skirt other than the TOS Nurse Skirt or TOS Split Skirt.)
The calves are too thin on a character wearing tight pants. Some posters also complained that this leaves a gap between the top of the boot and the calf.
The calves are too thick except when the character is wearing tight pants.
From what I can tell, there are seven female leg models:
Regular skirt
TOS skirt
Pants - Tight
Pants - Loose Long
Pants - Loose Knee High
Pants - Loose Mid Ankle
Robe
The above leg models may not be all distinct. For example, the different styles of loose pants may share a leg model; it is also possible that the same leg model is used for loose pants and TOS skirts. I cannot tell for certain from visual inspection alone. It is clear though that the regular-skirt, TOS-skirt, and tight-pants leg models are all different. The tight-pants leg model has thinner calves than the leg models for the skirts. The regular-skirt thighs are thinner than the TOS-skirt thighs when viewed from the front or back. (Oddly, the regular-skirt and TOS-skirt leg models look identical when viewed from the sides.) These differences are present on both Holodeck and Tribble.
Changes to body proportions
The 9/20 patch to Tribble changed more than just the legs on female characters: it also introduced many unintentional changes to the body proportions. Both male and female characters were affected; boffs and NPCs were affected as well. The 9/27 patch did not undo the unintentional changes, but instead made minor adjustments to the body proportions. The 10/1 patch made further adjustments, but certain differences between Holodeck and Tribble characters remain.
If you compare a female character on Tribble to the same character on Holodeck, you will notice that the Tribble character has
As the examples above show, not all the unintentional changes to body proportions were reversed. Male characters should have the same body proportions on Tribble and Holodeck. Except for the legs, the body proportions of female characters should match as well.
The female leg models on Tribble could be improved further. In my opinion, these are the remaining problems with the Tribble leg models:
Although the regular-skirt thighs now look good, the thighs of the other leg models are now too thick. The thighs were mostly fine on Holodeck---only the regular-skirt thighs were too thin when viewed from the front or back.
The tight-pants calves are too thin---they are even thinner on Tribble than they are on Holodeck. Furthermore, when a female character is wearing tight pants, there is still a gap between the boot and calf.
I'm not sure why tight pants, regular skirts, and TOS skirts have different leg models. It would be better if the thighs and calves across all leg models had uniform thickness (with appropriate deviations allowed for the fabric of loose pants and robes).
The "Leg Bulk" slider horizontally stretches or shrinks the whole leg by a single scale factor. But when a person gains or loses muscle, the thighs and calves don't necessarily scale by the same amount. Separate sliders for the thighs and calves would be preferable.
Although the regular-skirt thighs now look good, the thighs of the other leg models are now too thick. The thighs were mostly fine on Holodeck---only the regular-skirt thighs were too thin when viewed from the front or back.
Maybe I dont understand you because of my English, but in Holodeck, the only legs that are fine are the ones of the TOS skirts.
Maybe I dont understand you because of my English, but in Holodeck, the only legs that are fine are the ones of the TOS skirts.
Is that what you said, correct?
Sorry, I will try to clarify.
Holodeck: The regular-skirt thighs are too thin when viewed from the front or back. The thighs of all other leg models (including TOS skirts) are fine. The tight-pants calves are too thin. One poster complained that the calves on all other leg models are too thick, but other people think they are fine.
Tribble: Cryptic has increased the thickness of all thighs and decreased the thickness of all calves. As a result, the regular-skirt thighs now look fine, but the thighs of the other leg models are now too thick. The tight-pants calves are even thinner than before.
All skirts have the TOS slit/nurse skirt leg model now. That's good work Cryptic character artists. If this makes it to Holodeck I'll be happy.
They didn't replace the regular-skirt leg model with the TOS-skirt leg model. They made the thighs on all leg models thicker and the calves on all leg models thinner. If you look at the screenshots from my post (link below), you can see that, on Tribble, the regular-skirt thighs are still thinner than the TOS-skirt thighs when viewed from the front or back.
They didn't replace the regular-skirt leg model with the TOS-skirt leg model. They made the thighs on all leg models thicker and the calves on all leg models thinner. If you look at the screenshots from my post (link below), you can see that, on Tribble, the regular-skirt thighs are still thinner than the TOS-skirt thighs when viewed from the front or back.
Comments
It always makes me lol when I see a male toon with shoulders twice as wide as the hips.
Not only is that ridiculous looking, it also almost never happens irl (even among professional bodybuilders ive never seen a dude that big).
I read a study once where the perfect male form has a waist/hips to shoulders ratio of .9 (the shoulders are 10 percent wider than the hips), and females are the exact opposite (about 1.12, so 12 percent wider hips than shoulders), according to the survey sample.
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Horrible, just horrible.
I'm getting a Deja VUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Only on the patch notes, beacose is still broken.. not that broken, but broken.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
After looking on tribble i start to wonder if that patch actually really went in.. cause i ain't really seeing any huge improvements. Costumes holodeck vs tribble... tribble still looks fat and square.
And i don't even want to talk about the legs... a couple sliders there would have been an option, but what they do to em has no slider and it looks totally wrong:
http://imgur.com/Cmu5IoQ
Another silly pic.. this time in mu-overknee boots:
http://imgur.com/O1kiOsR
You are correct that they did not revert the changes, but the 9/27 patch changed more than just the head. They made minor adjustments to several body parts. The head is still smaller on Tribble though. The proportions still don't quite match those on Holodeck.
My conjecture is that Cryptic did not test the new leg models with stances that have bent knees. The above problems may not appear when the legs are straight.
True.. but then i ain't see anything that really improved on tribble so far.. head/shoulders/hips all looks wrong and the part that they supposedly tried to improve (legs) are so badly broken now in quite a few stances they have to either undo it or fix stances too :-/
I previously asked for a fix for their thighs in certain skirts, not their whole bodies.
Their bodies are "fine" now, or; im used to the configurations i have for my toons now.
Looking at the pictures in this thread make me dread that patchday.
"You shall not pass!"
Soooo...in the *next* patch (or two!) your toons should be back to their familiar selves - except for slightly thinner calves as requested here and internally
PS - glad you enjoyed the texture improvements!
Thank you for that. Is good to know that is going to be fixed. And thanks to take the time and let us know.
And yes, I really liked the textures, cant wait to see the finished job, I am sure is going to be grate.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Hopefully much less grating than your mis-spelling of "great". :mad:
Sorry, my natural lenguage is not english, next time I will be more careful and I will not misplace 2 letters.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
The complaints about female legs on Holodeck were not just about the calves being too thick. After reviewing the previous threads, I have identified three separate complaints:
The tight-pants calves look worse on Tribble now; I'm not sure why they are thinner than the calves on other outfits. Also, the back of the thigh just above the knee looks anatomically incorrect. To see this error, choose a stance with bent knees, such as "Feminine" or "Cute", and look at the legs from the sides.
Andorian male
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Alien male
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Has anyone checked Gorn, Caitians, and Ferasans?
Holodeck
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z432/cerritouru/screenshot_2013-10-01-21-57-00.jpg
Tribble
http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z432/cerritouru/screenshot_2013-10-01-22-03-10.jpg
I dont have other stances, but I think that is getting close at least with the Android one. The only thing is the arms inclination.
Thanks crypticjoejing for the fixs.
And sorry for bad English.
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
personally speaking, having spent a long time trying to get a realistic looking toon, i spent a while adding just the right ammount of extra stomach size to make him look a little out of shape from sitting in the chair , when i stand next to one of these hyper bulky, super tall characters its kind of annoying to be honest, specially the ones that wear the giant bulky shoulder armor , they just look silly ( exception for custom aliens, since they shouldn't conform to human standards anyway)
( by the way thats one complaint i have about the sliders for upper body, in order to get realisticly sized shoulder pad, i have to set my shoulders to have almost no bulk)
though its just as annoying either gender, ridiculous breast sizes are just as bad as overly wide/bulky shoulders ( set at maximun the breast size looks like a dodgy excessive boob job, and you'd need a structural integrity field to keep them from sagging, not to mention players, mostly male ones, have these on toons with almost no torso bulk, resulting in horrid Barbie doll characters) , I'm not saying that peoples toons have to look like average people on the street, but at least lets have the humanoid species set so they don't go to sizes that are humanly IMPOSSIBLE to attain
if you want to make giant, inhuman looking toons, MAKE AN ALIEN
Previous complaints about female legs
In previous discussions on this topic, there were several different complaints about female legs on Holodeck. It is important to note that these complaints are not identical, because a fix that addresses one complaint may not address the others. After reviewing the previous threads, I have identified three separate complaints:
The previous threads about female legs are listed below for reference:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=752701
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=809011
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=839361
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=858581
Female leg models
From what I can tell, there are seven female leg models:
The above leg models may not be all distinct. For example, the different styles of loose pants may share a leg model; it is also possible that the same leg model is used for loose pants and TOS skirts. I cannot tell for certain from visual inspection alone. It is clear though that the regular-skirt, TOS-skirt, and tight-pants leg models are all different. The tight-pants leg model has thinner calves than the leg models for the skirts. The regular-skirt thighs are thinner than the TOS-skirt thighs when viewed from the front or back. (Oddly, the regular-skirt and TOS-skirt leg models look identical when viewed from the sides.) These differences are present on both Holodeck and Tribble.
Changes to body proportions
The 9/20 patch to Tribble changed more than just the legs on female characters: it also introduced many unintentional changes to the body proportions. Both male and female characters were affected; boffs and NPCs were affected as well. The 9/27 patch did not undo the unintentional changes, but instead made minor adjustments to the body proportions. The 10/1 patch made further adjustments, but certain differences between Holodeck and Tribble characters remain.
If you compare a female character on Tribble to the same character on Holodeck, you will notice that the Tribble character has
See the examples below.
Andorian female: regular skirt
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Andorian female: TOS skirt
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Andorian female: tight pants
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
If you compare a male character on Tribble to the same character on Holodeck, you will notice that the Tribble character has
See the examples below.
Andorian male
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Alien male
Front: Holodeck, Tribble
Back: Holodeck, Tribble
Left: Holodeck, Tribble
Right: Holodeck, Tribble
Criticisms and Suggestions
As the examples above show, not all the unintentional changes to body proportions were reversed. Male characters should have the same body proportions on Tribble and Holodeck. Except for the legs, the body proportions of female characters should match as well.
The female leg models on Tribble could be improved further. In my opinion, these are the remaining problems with the Tribble leg models:
The "Leg Bulk" slider horizontally stretches or shrinks the whole leg by a single scale factor. But when a person gains or loses muscle, the thighs and calves don't necessarily scale by the same amount. Separate sliders for the thighs and calves would be preferable.
It's not just the arm length. Other unintentional changes to both males and females remain. See my post for details:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12671001&postcount=55
Maybe I dont understand you because of my English, but in Holodeck, the only legs that are fine are the ones of the TOS skirts.
Is that what you said, correct?
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410
Sorry, I will try to clarify.
Holodeck: The regular-skirt thighs are too thin when viewed from the front or back. The thighs of all other leg models (including TOS skirts) are fine. The tight-pants calves are too thin. One poster complained that the calves on all other leg models are too thick, but other people think they are fine.
Tribble: Cryptic has increased the thickness of all thighs and decreased the thickness of all calves. As a result, the regular-skirt thighs now look fine, but the thighs of the other leg models are now too thick. The tight-pants calves are even thinner than before.
They didn't replace the regular-skirt leg model with the TOS-skirt leg model. They made the thighs on all leg models thicker and the calves on all leg models thinner. If you look at the screenshots from my post (link below), you can see that, on Tribble, the regular-skirt thighs are still thinner than the TOS-skirt thighs when viewed from the front or back.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12671001&postcount=55
Officially Nerfed In Early 2410