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u should watch for buffs for ANYTHING, is basic... u wont use rapid fire vs rsp or extended shield 3, maybe is something strange for you, but trust me, good pvpers (even newbies) watch enemy buffs before do something.
There is a diference between a "counter" and an "efective counter", thats what 5 guys where trying to explain to you in the other post, but if they didn't succeed, i don't have too much hope.
Again, u ignored all the challenges. Put your money where u mouth is.
I'm done with you and your fail-posts, 2 days of hard trolling has filled my soul, hope to see you in game someday, i'm curious to see if your guns are big as your mouth.
I do believe a total clear wich is what eng team does and a total immunity wich is what omega does both of wich take no skill to activate no arc no range limit nothing count as efective counter. So if you grav pulse me and i hit eng team and it clears it COMPLETELY thats not efective oh you want it to just insta clear on its own. AHH Ive been watching buffs since you were in diapers. Keep listening to the guys that told you grav pulse has 0 counters and you will sit through a 50 second grav pulse like the noob you are.
If you use engy team then that leaves you with 15s of no tac team and no sci team leaving you open to volume of fire and snb's.
ohh damn god forbid that you make someone go without there 2 tac teams who wants to carry an eng team lets just ban everything that requires eng team for a clear. what your teammate cant throw you an eng team or a tac team.
I do believe a total clear wich is what eng team does and a total immunity wich is what omega does both of wich take no skill to activate no arc no range limit nothing count as efective counter.
Hello again,
You are either purposfully obfuscating the reality of this, or you are wrong and just don't realize it yet.
GPG is a 90 degree arc power, with a 10 kilometer range.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to make a pretty picture to demonstrate just how humongous a cone that is.
What that means is GPG can most certainly tag, 3+ targets. 5+ if you are really worth your salt and "have been watching buffs" since other players "were in diapers".
If you have a TVaro, well, you can pretty much choose your perfect positioning.
So, Mr. "easy to clear". Now our GPG requires Five APOs or 5 ENG Teams to clear.
How many healers can realistically carry APO?
How many Eng Teams can 1 team realistically carry and all be ready to use at a critical time?
That would create, a team-wide gap in TT & ST coverage.
But hey, why should we stop there in our "no rules" gameplay?
Let's carry 5x GPG, after all it's only 1 console slot.
How many Eng teams do you need to clear 5x GPG used in succession?
This is why it's generally banned from tournaments, because if it is not banned there is no rule of how many copies you can bring.
who cares about omega inmunity, just wait till omega is over and use gp lol, in pvp you play vs real ppl, no vs npcs
Let me put this simple for you:
1 - Challenged you to 1vs1, you didn't even reply
2 - Pandas challenged to a premade match to show your "effective" counters vs gp/tif, u runned away scared
3 - I challenged you ingame to a premade match, and u refused cause u don't accept play without GP/TIF (that cleary show your dependece to them)
But here u are, saying noobs to the same ppl that u are scared to play. The funny part, is that you are using a smuft account for talk **** about almost everyone here (if u are going to accuse about cheats, at least use your real account), and when ppl asked you about what fleet are u into, u throw a random name of a fleet that nobody knows (hello....sob member hihihi)
Conclusion: too much talk, and 0 pew pew. Put your money where your mouth is
Im not taking sides here but before you keep going with this engineering team is a counter to grav pulse.
Omega is also an immunity to all movement debuffs. I was reading through the other post by this guy omega also makes the movement debuff for inversion useless.
I think he missed that so i would be interested in seeing even a 5 man team try to keep someone in inversion with 2 copies of omega or 1 with doffs polarize hull A2D emergency power to engines an engine battery hazzards and hot restart engines along with a couple other doffs.
I bet it wouldnt be that easy. Im not talking about killing the guy thats easy Just keeping him held in the inversion range ill be glad to be the 1 against the 5.
Im not taking sides here but before you keep going with this engineering team is a counter to grav pulse.
Omega is also an immunity to all movement debuffs.
They are, but my post above shows why it's not as cut and dry as all of that. There are only so many APOs and ETs available.
There is only so long of a gap with no ability to use TT or ST a team can handle.
APO is easily stripped with SNB, and SNB is generally applied before a kill attempt.
If GPG was a single target use power, it would suddenly be significantly less problematic than it currently is.
There is also 0 logical reason that the primary debuff duration (8s) should be buffable by a factor of 6 or 7 (48 to 60s at top end) > No other power duration is buffable in this magnitude.
I dont know of any pvper that would pay for this game in the state it is in on a monthly basis .If they did it wouldnt be enough to make a dent in their bottom line.Someone mentioned let the rpers fund it they already do thats why pvp gets no love we dont spend any money atleast not enough to make a dent . Thats why cryptic went to F2P subscriptions werent enough to keep the doors open they sold too many lifetimes. but im glad you agree that there are only 2 choices sub or p2w.
They went f2p because they make more money that way.
Those games I listed all make more money now that they allow free access to there game.
The MMO industry is saturated. The only way to stay afloat is to allow people to play with out a sub.
Think of it this way.
(take a small sample size and look at the math)
You can run a sub only game and have 50 people all paying 20 bucks thats $1000 in revenue.
Or... you can have 200 people playing with 10 of them subed at 20 bucks and the average player spending 5 bucks a month for item store currency that is $1200 in revenue.
The other advantage other then making 20% more revenue is you now have 150 more people playing and advertising the game for you... which means next month you are likely to grow the number of people in the game which will in fact grow the revenue.
You need to stop thinking about sub only as a good model... it isn't. F2P is a better model... its why most new MMOs start as F2P now. Pretty much all the old guard have switched to F2P with a handful of acceptions like WoW... and TORs conversion is terrible (EA has no idea how to make money in the MMO world though).
What Cryptic needs to do is either stop releasing toys that effect mainly PvP... or better yet turn them all off in pvp.... they have the tech to do just that as other Cryptic games work that way.
Other MMOs have made more money doing nothing but services and cosmetic items in there shops.... STO has been one of the few I have seen that has in fact sold powerful items that can be used on other players. Well there is golden ammo in a handful of other games... but then those games don't offer any pve at all, and I would argue that it limits growth in those games.
You are either purposfully obfuscating the reality of this, or you are wrong and just don't realize it yet.
GPG is a 90 degree arc power, with a 10 kilometer range.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to make a pretty picture to demonstrate just how humongous a cone that is.
What that means is GPG can most certainly tag, 3+ targets. 5+ if you are really worth your salt and "have been watching buffs" since other players "were in diapers".
If you have a TVaro, well, you can pretty much choose your perfect positioning.
So, Mr. "easy to clear". Now our GPG requires Five APOs or 5 ENG Teams to clear.
How many healers can realistically carry APO?
How many Eng Teams can 1 team realistically carry and all be ready to use at a critical time?
That would create, a team-wide gap in TT & ST coverage.
But hey, why should we stop there in our "no rules" gameplay?
Let's carry 5x GPG, after all it's only 1 console slot.
How many Eng teams do you need to clear 5x GPG used in succession?
This is why it's generally banned from tournaments, because if it is not banned there is no rule of how many copies you can bring.
It becomes a battle of who has the most GPG.
So you are going to do what grav pulse 3 targets if your lucky. Now you have been watching all 5 targets and monitoring all 5 targets buffs just to get your grav pulse off. While your team is being scrambled nuked shockwaved and alpha on. But your team doesnt need you your job i guess is to just wait half the match until you see the whole team at once have no counter to grav pulse then you strike.
Ok now what im slowed my 2 other teammates are slowed because you only have 3 of us you didnt get the miracle all 5 you wanted.1 was an escort he hits his omega one player lets say a sci calls for an eng team and wow look the other person you missed just sent the 3rd guy an eng team. Are you presureizing all 5 targets probably not. So if 1 or 2 people get caught who cares at that point itsno different then being in a tractored or vmed.
If that 3rd target is your focus target then there are still 4 people to heal him and he can also heal himself. Grav pulse does 1 thing efect your movement you still wont kill the target without a nuke. So does it matter if 3 to 5 people get hit with grav pulse?
How many of the 5 can you target and kill within the time somebody has to sit there. So i hope you use this as a strategy with grav pulse. I just use it as another shutdown since you need 5 shutdowns to draw out all the counters to them. It comes in handy i dont wait half the match focused on trying to watch all 5 players buffs just to get a grav pulse on someone. Its more efective focusing on 1 target.
So im curious are you going to insta pop me when that grav pulse hits i doubt it. Not without a nuke but if you nuke me im going to die with or without grav pulse on me. I didnt die from the grav pulse i died from the subnuke and alpha. I also like to use it on all the runners that like to hit and run. Thats the difference between you and me i dont use an ability to exploit it. I use the ability as another tool for my sci since every sci ability in the game has been made useless.
Oh and i think if it only takes 1 of those abilities to clear it. It would be like 2 omega 2 eng teams and the 5th guy waits 15 seconds for another eng team or uses another ability to move remember it doesnt stop you just slow it only has a 15% chance to disable. So no you wouldnt need 5 omegas and 5 eng teams hero. Your escorts have omega im sure they save it for tractor beams so save it for grav pulse.
I mean if your far enough out to get the whole team in the grav pulse you can see the graphic coming from a mile away hit omega. If you cant carry 2 eng teams on your premade that is your own problem not the other teams.Im sure every premade has room for 2 eng teams some where.
I think you should take some time to re-read my post again.
Re-evaluate what happens when 3+ targets are hit with GPG.
Re-evaluate what happens when that is cleared, and 4 other players still have GPG ready.
Re-evaluate math, because 3 targets x 5 copies of GPG = 15, and 2 Eng Teams can not keep up with that.
Re-evaluate TVaro, which can use GPG while cloaked during sub-alpha to control enemy movement for a variety of effects.
Your post goes into all the possible things the other team can do, but does not even once touch what the team using GPG can do to support its use of Mutli-GPG.
This is basically the same lapse as the entire thread on TIF.
You kept talking about what TIF vs. Everything is, instead of TIF+ Everything vs. Everything else - TIF.
Now for a moment, and this is for the audience really, imagine what can be done with multiple copies of Theta supporting GPG supporting TIFall supporting each other, and every other power supporting and being supported by those items.
This is why itemized powers should not be force multipliers, and should certainly never be AoE force multipliers, unless their effects are minimal.
They went f2p because they make more money that way.
Those games I listed all make more money now that they allow free access to there game.
The MMO industry is saturated. The only way to stay afloat is to allow people to play with out a sub.
Think of it this way.
(take a small sample size and look at the math)
You can run a sub only game and have 50 people all paying 20 bucks thats $1000 in revenue.
Or... you can have 200 people playing with 10 of them subed at 20 bucks and the average player spending 5 bucks a month for item store currency that is $1200 in revenue.
The other advantage other then making 20% more revenue is you now have 150 more people playing and advertising the game for you... which means next month you are likely to grow the number of people in the game which will in fact grow the revenue.
You need to stop thinking about sub only as a good model... it isn't. F2P is a better model... its why most new MMOs start as F2P now. Pretty much all the old guard have switched to F2P with a handful of acceptions like WoW... and TORs conversion is terrible (EA has no idea how to make money in the MMO world though).
What Cryptic needs to do is either stop releasing toys that effect mainly PvP... or better yet turn them all off in pvp.... they have the tech to do just that as other Cryptic games work that way.
Other MMOs have made more money doing nothing but services and cosmetic items in there shops.... STO has been one of the few I have seen that has in fact sold powerful items that can be used on other players. Well there is golden ammo in a handful of other games... but then those games don't offer any pve at all, and I would argue that it limits growth in those games.
What exactly do these highly succesfull f2p games sell enlighten me so i can get an idea of what it is they are selling to make money.
I think f2p is great but seeing that pvpers dont make up even 1 % of the players in the game what are the chances of them getting any content geared towards them.
If its the rpers buying jackets and that makes them money wouldnt they focus dev time on that instead of pvp. If we were paid subscribers and they had something to lose you might have your voice heard more. So how can you combine the best of both worlds could it be like a pvp expansion sold for cash only not zen. I would pay for a pvp expansion.
Could it be something like a pvp server that requires a monthly sub Or am i thinking to big.
How in a game where pvp is in the state that it is bring new players in to a broken game and convince them to stay long enough to show cryptic it has enough people to make money on.
Its like having an open house and the house is trashed needs a ton of work and you tell the buyer he has to pay full price and move in immediately and you cant fix anything.
I think you should take some time to re-read my post again.
Re-evaluate what happens when 3+ targets are hit with GPG.
Re-evaluate what happens when that is cleared, and 4 other players still have GPG ready.
Re-evaluate math, because 3 targets x 5 copies of GPG = 15, and 2 Eng Teams can not keep up with that.
Re-evaluate TVaro, which can use GPG while cloaked during sub-alpha to control enemy movement for a variety of effects.
Your post goes into all the possible things the other team can do, but does not even once touch what the team using GPG can do to support its use of Mutli-GPG.
This is basically the same lapse as the entire thread on TIF.
You kept talking about what TIF vs. Everything is, instead of TIF+ Everything vs. Everything else - TIF.
Now for a moment, and this is for the audience really, imagine what can be done with multiple copies of Theta supporting GPG supporting TIFall supporting each other, and every other power supporting and being supported by those items.
This is why itemized powers should not be force multipliers, and should certainly never be AoE force multipliers, unless their effects are minimal.
Oh my god your back to the 5 people using 5 gpg arguement just because your fleet needs to establish rules for yourselves to prevent them from bringing 5 grav pulses doesnt mean everyone that uses grav pulse uses 5 they dont. My old fleet used max 2 on a team so if i dont use 5 is that ok. 5 snb is op 5 gravwell is op 5 viral is op 5 scramble is op 5 ams is op 5 extends is op 5 alphas are op so it sounds to me like the problem is a team using 5 of them not the ability itself so why ban it completely why not limit it to 2.
And about your Tavaro go ahead and sit there and watch the teams buffs in the heat of battle to drop your grav pulse you will very rarely ever find a time to get more then 3 reliably your not going to get the magic 5 you claim there will be 3 people at all times that will have a clear or a counter available for a majority of the match. You havent answered my question yet has pandas ever lost to a team using these i win instant death automatically make you better consoles sarcasm just for your reference. I bet the answer is no yet you let others believe that thats what beats them are you just that much more of a superior fleet to all these other fleets that they can never achieve the skill level of you and beat teams with these consoles.
What exactly do these highly succesfull f2p games sell enlighten me so i can get an idea of what it is they are selling to make money.
I think f2p is great but seeing that pvpers dont make up even 1 % of the players in the game what are the chances of them getting any content geared towards them.
If its the rpers buying jackets and that makes them money wouldnt they focus dev time on that instead of pvp. If we were paid subscribers and they had something to lose you might have your voice heard more. So how can you combine the best of both worlds could it be like a pvp expansion sold for cash only not zen. I would pay for a pvp expansion.
Could it be something like a pvp server that requires a monthly sub Or am i thinking to big.
How in a game where pvp is in the state that it is bring new players in to a broken game and convince them to stay long enough to show cryptic it has enough people to make money on.
Its like having an open house and the house is trashed needs a ton of work and you tell the buyer he has to pay full price and move in immediately and you cant fix anything.
I don't disagree with you... it isn't PvPers making them the majority of there money .... it is the guys buying the RP style items. The issue here is Cryptic seems to think we are still a market they want to sell things to... how else to you explain things like the sub nuke doff... or even the tif field which I must say I have never ever seen a STF kid using.
Most of those games I listed don't have items for sale that work in pvp at all. There stores look like STOs minus the ships weapons and PvP doffs. They seem to be making profit as well funny enough.
Funny thing is Cryptic keeps giving away things that make the most $ for other games... and charging for stuff that the other guys would never sell.
The speedy bank / merchent access we all get for free now from level 1 missions... that stuff is for sale everywhere else. Also sector space travel... why do we get transwarp for free... or borg engines that break the rules.... mount speed is a source of revenue. Also why can we drop a few thousand EC and transwarp anywhere we want ? Another source of revenue right there... pay for transwarp unlocks, or travel there slow like... or fast like if you pay for the proper speed modifiers.
... what isn't for sale though... is weapons and gear that destroys the stuff people don't pay for. The flavor with all the other MMO companies right now is to pretty much wall off pvp... creating very powerful long grind pve gear... and having pvp gear exist outside of that... Rift does it with actual PvP gear... GW does it by having a PvP paper doll with PvP only gear.
Both of those games have health PvP where the P2W doesn't exist... and people still play it in great numbers... and they still make a ton of money.
PS... I stand corrected in GW2 you can purchase finishers which allow you to Tbag properly.... nothing says FU in PvP more then this one "Crush your opponents with a falling cow finishing move in PvP and WvW"
Cosmetics for the Tbag emote you do have to love that.
Now for a moment, and this is for the audience really, imagine what can be done with multiple copies of Theta supporting GPG supporting TIFall supporting each other, and every other power supporting and being supported by those items.
.
Sounds like a hell of a premade setup to me. A use of multiple abilities that complement each other to create a build to beat another premades set of abilities that compliment each other. Both trying to achieve a desired efect 15 kills .
This is what a premade is its not 5 guys from the same fleet Its developing a build to beat the other teams build. Not you pick my build wich essentially is what you want. This game may be dog fighting and flying and coordination but pvp is also strategy thats half the fun for me.
And not just calling targets and switches but the strategy of building a 5 man team with ships and abilities that complement each other. If you think building one ship for pvp is fun try 5 its amazing. The strategy of countering what the other team will bring thats fun.
ohh damn god forbid that you make someone go without there 2 tac teams who wants to carry an eng team lets just ban everything that requires eng team for a clear. what your teammate cant throw you an eng team or a tac team.
No need to be a **** towards me man, I was just saying that your single counter of engy team can have too high a price to use.
Also, you talk a mean game of counter on the forums, why not set up a match to show how easy it is to counter this stuff?
No need to be a **** towards me man, I was just saying that your single counter of engy team can have too high a price to use.
Also, you talk a mean game of counter on the forums, why not set up a match to show how easy it is to counter this stuff?
Sorry i have no issue with you i just think your letting people sway your thinking and cloud your judgement. There needs to be some kind of critera in place for what is op or broken and because something isnt easily countered. I think it is seeing that the pandas have never lost to it.
The criteria cant be because 5 of them are op or its not easy to carry the counter because then i cant cycle tac teams or my friend says you suck if you use it. Now people are actually claiming that these abilities have no counter thats why they should be banned . These are total bs reasons is that so hard to understand.
I can hit you with vm3 with spread doffs and possibly hit 2 to 3 of your teamates also. I had alot of respect for you as being a good player why dont you and the pandas get together you are all equally skilled players would be even teams do the test put the counters on for inversion let them use it see what happens. Ibet you will be surprised. Im also not saying it would be easy is it supposed to be though am i supposed to make it easy for you to beat me.
Then come tell us the results fraps it so people can see that none of the counters work. Then you have proof not just stomping a guy that doesnt premade anymore with 4 other random guys. I trust that you would accept the challenge and try to get out of it.
I dont think you would fail on purpose just to prove a point. I think everyone here respects your skill level and would say if my and 4 guys of equal skill levelcouldnt counter the other team of equal skill level i would change my mind but i believe that with those counters you would find how easy it is to get out of.
I could not tell you my answer of your response to my first post in "Rules in PvP" thread.
So here I do so now. (Also I will make some sort of notes of what I did read here, etc.)
I understand your feelings. Really, but I am one of those people, who do not like to be disabled/drained/subnuced/scrambled or else by many GPs, AMSs, Subnucs, Aceton Assimilators, etc. The problem with that as maybe someone else said before is, the PvP community so we are not that player camp, who fund the game with bought zen. In this case we know that this will lead us to items, like these named as well as unnamed ones.
We also have known that for a long time that these are going to be not taken out from the game anymore. So we have to arrange, try and hold the queues safe and still provide fair, not spamming games/matches. The rules you speak about was on tourneys. As I said before it, too, a tourney's organiser will decide how the game will be fair and skilled. This must be accepted, not argued.
However as these rules are on the tourney, fortunately or unfortunately (who prefer which in this case) these are infiltrated in the public and these rules themselves trying to force the public itself to accept them. This is mentality. Why? Because people need rules. They want them, everyone has some sort of rules. People like if they have something standards to orient to. As rules give these standards, they want them.
Nevertheless I do understand that also many of players do not accept these rules, because they feel it is somehow against them, just because they have or use or not at all. Rules are not for one person's good, but the society's. But this is also mentality. Or I should quote our great vulcan: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
The real problem here (in my opinion, of course) is only the I.
Do I want to accept these or not? Do I want to participate and play in fair matches or in full-spammed maps?
I think these two questions what must be asked by ourselves. We want to increase our fun of playing. This is an attitude of human, we like laughing, we like the funny things, but we also like being proud of ourselves.
We got items for this purpose. But what is more fun: click and dead (the named items, 5-min-played matches), or think and hunt (a.k.a. teamwork, builds, co-ordinated tactics with skills etc., 40-50-min-played matches or so)?
This is what I would have liked to share with you and with all of you.
Sorry i have no issue with you i just think your letting people sway your thinking and cloud your judgement. There needs to be some kind of critera in place for what is op or broken and because something isnt easily countered. I think it is seeing that the pandas have never lost to it.
The criteria cant be because 5 of them are op or its not easy to carry the counter because then i cant cycle tac teams or my friend says you suck if you use it. Now people are actually claiming that these abilities have no counter thats why they should be banned . These are total bs reasons is that so hard to understand.
I can hit you with vm3 with spread doffs and possibly hit 2 to 3 of your teamates also. I had alot of respect for you as being a good player why dont you and the pandas get together you are all equally skilled players would be even teams do the test put the counters on for inversion let them use it see what happens. Ibet you will be surprised. Im also not saying it would be easy is it supposed to be though am i supposed to make it easy for you to beat me.
Then come tell us the results fraps it so people can see that none of the counters work. Then you have proof not just stomping a guy that doesnt premade anymore with 4 other random guys. I trust that you would accept the challenge and try to get out of it.
I dont think you would fail on purpose just to prove a point. I think everyone here respects your skill level and would say if my and 4 guys of equal skill levelcouldnt counter the other team of equal skill level i would change my mind but i believe that with those counters you would find how easy it is to get out of.
i have no need to challenge them because i know that the counters arent as easy to use as you seem to think they are.
yeah there is counters, but the counters are useless if they have counters to your counters.
see what i'm saying?
you're the one who seems to not think this, and keep posting your "paper pvp" approch- x counters y when you dont factor the human factor of z into the paper pvp.
i have no need to challenge them because i know that the counters arent as easy to use as you seem to think they are.
yeah there is counters, but the counters are useless if they have counters to your counters.
see what i'm saying?
you're the one who seems to not think this, and keep posting your "paper pvp" approch- x counters y when you dont factor the human factor of z into the paper pvp.
Ok dude listen now you have gone from the counters dont work to they dont work well to now they are useless because the counters also have counters. So now that sounds like a fun game and every match ive ever been in one player attacks the other player counters the other player counters back thats the game. It wasnt a challenge it was a test match remember.
Ok dude listen now you have gone from the counters dont work to they dont work well to now they are useless because the counters also have counters. So now that sounds like a fun game and every match ive ever been in one player attacks the other player counters the other player counters back thats the game. It wasnt a challenge it was a test match remember.
what? where have i said that counters dont work to that counters are useless? my point all along has been its not easy as black and white in saying x counters y when you constantly dont figure for z.
ive only made what... 2-3 posts during this entire thing and i've maintained what i've said-
counters countering counters = cant be figured for on forum pvp because of the human factor.
its easy to say anything on the forums but in the middle of combat its anything but easy.
there are too many factors to figure into when it comes to this game.
hell, obviously this guy has been around for a bit....in that other thread he knew who i was but also knew i havnt been on that much to be part of any panda teams lately.
id say just dont respond anymore. i pride myself on being a strong diplomatic arm for our fleet. my posts are encouraging and honestly friendly. and this guy just responds with vitriol.
I could not tell you my answer of your response to my first post in "Rules in PvP" thread.
So here I do so now. (Also I will make some sort of notes of what I did read here, etc.)
I understand your feelings. Really, but I am one of those people, who do not like to be disabled/drained/subnuced/scrambled or else by many GPs, AMSs, Subnucs, Aceton Assimilators, etc. The problem with that as maybe someone else said before is, the PvP community so we are not that player camp, who fund the game with bought zen. In this case we know that this will lead us to items, like these named as well as unnamed ones.
We also have known that for a long time that these are going to be not taken out from the game anymore. So we have to arrange, try and hold the queues safe and still provide fair, not spamming games/matches. The rules you speak about was on tourneys. As I said before it, too, a tourney's organiser will decide how the game will be fair and skilled. This must be accepted, not argued.
However as these rules are on the tourney, fortunately or unfortunately (who prefer which in this case) these are infiltrated in the public and these rules themselves trying to force the public itself to accept them. This is mentality. Why? Because people need rules. They want them, everyone has some sort of rules. People like if they have something standards to orient to. As rules give these standards, they want them.
Nevertheless I do understand that also many of players do not accept these rules, because they feel it is somehow against them, just because they have or use or not at all. Rules are not for one person's good, but the society's. But this is also mentality. Or I should quote our great vulcan: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
The real problem here (in my opinion, of course) is only the I.
Do I want to accept these or not? Do I want to participate and play in fair matches or in full-spammed maps?
I think these two questions what must be asked by ourselves. We want to increase our fun of playing. This is an attitude of human, we like laughing, we like the funny things, but we also like being proud of ourselves.
We got items for this purpose. But what is more fun: click and dead (the named items, 5-min-played matches), or think and hunt (a.k.a. teamwork, builds, co-ordinated tactics with skills etc., 40-50-min-played matches or so)?
This is what I would have liked to share with you and with all of you.
Thank you,
I dont play this game to fullfill your grand vision of what pvp should be sorry but its true. I know thats a shot to your ego but i dont play the game to be told how i need to setup my ship up. I dont think that because i dont conform to your vision of grandure that multiple fleets have tried in the past TSI QEW SAD PANDAS TRH all it does is cause people to choose sides and fight and not in the q.
Its been tried before it fails and causes more problems every time. Dont bother play your privates with rules play your tournaments with rules and leave it at that. I didnt see your response on if it is boot camp policy to teach new players that these things are cheese and if its your policy to berate and call names in public chat.
I can show you the posts were people from bootcamp have said thats what they would do so do they teach that mentality. I havent heard you condem that you people actually think that using a console ingame is worse then calling someone names and trolling in public forums for hours after a match.
Remember its my q as much as it is yours you dont want to get pug stomped dont q solo go to kerrat do a cnh leave the arenas to the premades.
i dont want to communicate with a bunch of idiots I dont like and that dont like me. Did you see in the other thread how hard it was to get the best fleet in the game to setup a match against a pugmade. No thank you ill stick to the q why dont all you bad TRIBBLE fleets come out and start defending the q. Go kick those noob spam fleets that pick on poor pugs TRIBBLE hmm i think your scared. You can always warp out if you end up with pugs but if more premades q the q would be alive not some dead zone with a bunch of leachers and farmers and people who dont have any interest in joining a fleet to do 5 mans with.
hell, obviously this guy has been around for a bit....in that other thread he knew who i was but also knew i havnt been on that much to be part of any panda teams lately.
id say just dont respond anymore. i pride myself on being a strong diplomatic arm for our fleet. my posts are encouraging and honestly friendly. and this guy just responds with vitriol.
have fun kill bad guys, my old tsi friend.
ah well.. i can at least say i'd given it a try right?
i dont just kill bad guys, i kill everything that moves :P (war thunder is awesome and so is borderlands 2)
I dont play this game to fullfill your grand vision of what pvp should be sorry but its true. I know thats a shot to your ego but i dont play the game to be told how i need to setup my ship up. I dont think that because i dont conform to your vision of grandure that multiple fleets have tried in the past TSI QEW SAD PANDAS TRH all it does is cause people to choose sides and fight and not in the q.
.
woah woah woah there buddy, TSI has never tried to force anyone to use or not use anything unless its been for events/private matches.
what? where have i said that counters dont work to that counters are useless? my point all along has been its not easy as black and white in saying x counters y when you constantly dont figure for z.
ive only made what... 2-3 posts during this entire thing and i've maintained what i've said-
counters countering counters = cant be figured for on forum pvp because of the human factor.
its easy to say anything on the forums but in the middle of combat its anything but easy.
there are too many factors to figure into when it comes to this game.
See this is what i dont understand read your post why do you think it will be easy for me with all the ingame variable to get my inversion off like the other team is just going to let me run around using inversion at will with nothing trying to stop me. Your saying the variables that would make your counters harder to pull off dont also affect the person being able to efectively inversion.
It will be easy for you to get your inversion off but hard for me to counter with the same variables. The human factor is what makes very little in this game op the ability to change your strategy for different builds. Im sorry that the human variable is the best counter to grav pulse and inversion. Im sorry you cant just instantly clear everything without using easy counters. If my team uses inversion and pandas dont will my team win. if not whats the problem. Ohh yeah i forgot criteria number 2 for an ability being op its annoying.
They could revert back to subs, or go B2P and maybe -- if we all cross our stubby little Tellerite fingers and wish really hard -- wipe the game clean, balance it competitively and sell copies based on good word from streamers and professional tournaments...
What if they made FEs/Elite content available for Gold players only?
No need you can have all content F2P and still not have to make money of of PvP gear.
There are things that for some reason the Cryptic guys have decided to give away.
1) Transwarps ? why do we get this so cheep.
2) Speed boosts in sector space... borg engine bonus should get nixed... Quantum Slip stream should be removed... and replaced with a new slip stream module in all ships... then they can feel free to sell slip stream drives in the Cstore. Again mount speed is something everyone else make good money off of.
There are many other MMOs that ensure there store items do NOT effect PvP at all... and still tend to make money... considering the Trek IP they should have no issue making money off of the RP stuff.... I would wager the Tuffie promos have made more $ for Cryptic then anything aimed at PvP players. Look at the cell ship for example.
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I do believe a total clear wich is what eng team does and a total immunity wich is what omega does both of wich take no skill to activate no arc no range limit nothing count as efective counter. So if you grav pulse me and i hit eng team and it clears it COMPLETELY thats not efective oh you want it to just insta clear on its own. AHH Ive been watching buffs since you were in diapers. Keep listening to the guys that told you grav pulse has 0 counters and you will sit through a 50 second grav pulse like the noob you are.
ohh damn god forbid that you make someone go without there 2 tac teams who wants to carry an eng team lets just ban everything that requires eng team for a clear. what your teammate cant throw you an eng team or a tac team.
Hello again,
You are either purposfully obfuscating the reality of this, or you are wrong and just don't realize it yet.
GPG is a 90 degree arc power, with a 10 kilometer range.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to make a pretty picture to demonstrate just how humongous a cone that is.
What that means is GPG can most certainly tag, 3+ targets. 5+ if you are really worth your salt and "have been watching buffs" since other players "were in diapers".
If you have a TVaro, well, you can pretty much choose your perfect positioning.
So, Mr. "easy to clear". Now our GPG requires Five APOs or 5 ENG Teams to clear.
How many healers can realistically carry APO?
How many Eng Teams can 1 team realistically carry and all be ready to use at a critical time?
That would create, a team-wide gap in TT & ST coverage.
But hey, why should we stop there in our "no rules" gameplay?
Let's carry 5x GPG, after all it's only 1 console slot.
How many Eng teams do you need to clear 5x GPG used in succession?
This is why it's generally banned from tournaments, because if it is not banned there is no rule of how many copies you can bring.
It becomes a battle of who has the most GPG.
Im not taking sides here but before you keep going with this engineering team is a counter to grav pulse.
Omega is also an immunity to all movement debuffs. I was reading through the other post by this guy omega also makes the movement debuff for inversion useless.
I think he missed that so i would be interested in seeing even a 5 man team try to keep someone in inversion with 2 copies of omega or 1 with doffs polarize hull A2D emergency power to engines an engine battery hazzards and hot restart engines along with a couple other doffs.
I bet it wouldnt be that easy. Im not talking about killing the guy thats easy Just keeping him held in the inversion range ill be glad to be the 1 against the 5.
Send me a message ingame Tev@macready08.
They are, but my post above shows why it's not as cut and dry as all of that. There are only so many APOs and ETs available.
There is only so long of a gap with no ability to use TT or ST a team can handle.
APO is easily stripped with SNB, and SNB is generally applied before a kill attempt.
If GPG was a single target use power, it would suddenly be significantly less problematic than it currently is.
There is also 0 logical reason that the primary debuff duration (8s) should be buffable by a factor of 6 or 7 (48 to 60s at top end) > No other power duration is buffable in this magnitude.
They went f2p because they make more money that way.
Those games I listed all make more money now that they allow free access to there game.
The MMO industry is saturated. The only way to stay afloat is to allow people to play with out a sub.
Think of it this way.
(take a small sample size and look at the math)
You can run a sub only game and have 50 people all paying 20 bucks thats $1000 in revenue.
Or... you can have 200 people playing with 10 of them subed at 20 bucks and the average player spending 5 bucks a month for item store currency that is $1200 in revenue.
The other advantage other then making 20% more revenue is you now have 150 more people playing and advertising the game for you... which means next month you are likely to grow the number of people in the game which will in fact grow the revenue.
You need to stop thinking about sub only as a good model... it isn't. F2P is a better model... its why most new MMOs start as F2P now. Pretty much all the old guard have switched to F2P with a handful of acceptions like WoW... and TORs conversion is terrible (EA has no idea how to make money in the MMO world though).
What Cryptic needs to do is either stop releasing toys that effect mainly PvP... or better yet turn them all off in pvp.... they have the tech to do just that as other Cryptic games work that way.
Other MMOs have made more money doing nothing but services and cosmetic items in there shops.... STO has been one of the few I have seen that has in fact sold powerful items that can be used on other players. Well there is golden ammo in a handful of other games... but then those games don't offer any pve at all, and I would argue that it limits growth in those games.
So you are going to do what grav pulse 3 targets if your lucky. Now you have been watching all 5 targets and monitoring all 5 targets buffs just to get your grav pulse off. While your team is being scrambled nuked shockwaved and alpha on. But your team doesnt need you your job i guess is to just wait half the match until you see the whole team at once have no counter to grav pulse then you strike.
Ok now what im slowed my 2 other teammates are slowed because you only have 3 of us you didnt get the miracle all 5 you wanted.1 was an escort he hits his omega one player lets say a sci calls for an eng team and wow look the other person you missed just sent the 3rd guy an eng team. Are you presureizing all 5 targets probably not. So if 1 or 2 people get caught who cares at that point itsno different then being in a tractored or vmed.
If that 3rd target is your focus target then there are still 4 people to heal him and he can also heal himself. Grav pulse does 1 thing efect your movement you still wont kill the target without a nuke. So does it matter if 3 to 5 people get hit with grav pulse?
How many of the 5 can you target and kill within the time somebody has to sit there. So i hope you use this as a strategy with grav pulse. I just use it as another shutdown since you need 5 shutdowns to draw out all the counters to them. It comes in handy i dont wait half the match focused on trying to watch all 5 players buffs just to get a grav pulse on someone. Its more efective focusing on 1 target.
So im curious are you going to insta pop me when that grav pulse hits i doubt it. Not without a nuke but if you nuke me im going to die with or without grav pulse on me. I didnt die from the grav pulse i died from the subnuke and alpha. I also like to use it on all the runners that like to hit and run. Thats the difference between you and me i dont use an ability to exploit it. I use the ability as another tool for my sci since every sci ability in the game has been made useless.
Oh and i think if it only takes 1 of those abilities to clear it. It would be like 2 omega 2 eng teams and the 5th guy waits 15 seconds for another eng team or uses another ability to move remember it doesnt stop you just slow it only has a 15% chance to disable. So no you wouldnt need 5 omegas and 5 eng teams hero. Your escorts have omega im sure they save it for tractor beams so save it for grav pulse.
I mean if your far enough out to get the whole team in the grav pulse you can see the graphic coming from a mile away hit omega. If you cant carry 2 eng teams on your premade that is your own problem not the other teams.Im sure every premade has room for 2 eng teams some where.
I think you should take some time to re-read my post again.
Re-evaluate what happens when 3+ targets are hit with GPG.
Re-evaluate what happens when that is cleared, and 4 other players still have GPG ready.
Re-evaluate math, because 3 targets x 5 copies of GPG = 15, and 2 Eng Teams can not keep up with that.
Re-evaluate TVaro, which can use GPG while cloaked during sub-alpha to control enemy movement for a variety of effects.
Your post goes into all the possible things the other team can do, but does not even once touch what the team using GPG can do to support its use of Mutli-GPG.
This is basically the same lapse as the entire thread on TIF.
You kept talking about what TIF vs. Everything is, instead of TIF+ Everything vs. Everything else - TIF.
Now for a moment, and this is for the audience really, imagine what can be done with multiple copies of Theta supporting GPG supporting TIF all supporting each other, and every other power supporting and being supported by those items.
This is why itemized powers should not be force multipliers, and should certainly never be AoE force multipliers, unless their effects are minimal.
What exactly do these highly succesfull f2p games sell enlighten me so i can get an idea of what it is they are selling to make money.
I think f2p is great but seeing that pvpers dont make up even 1 % of the players in the game what are the chances of them getting any content geared towards them.
If its the rpers buying jackets and that makes them money wouldnt they focus dev time on that instead of pvp. If we were paid subscribers and they had something to lose you might have your voice heard more. So how can you combine the best of both worlds could it be like a pvp expansion sold for cash only not zen. I would pay for a pvp expansion.
Could it be something like a pvp server that requires a monthly sub Or am i thinking to big.
How in a game where pvp is in the state that it is bring new players in to a broken game and convince them to stay long enough to show cryptic it has enough people to make money on.
Its like having an open house and the house is trashed needs a ton of work and you tell the buyer he has to pay full price and move in immediately and you cant fix anything.
Oh my god your back to the 5 people using 5 gpg arguement just because your fleet needs to establish rules for yourselves to prevent them from bringing 5 grav pulses doesnt mean everyone that uses grav pulse uses 5 they dont. My old fleet used max 2 on a team so if i dont use 5 is that ok. 5 snb is op 5 gravwell is op 5 viral is op 5 scramble is op 5 ams is op 5 extends is op 5 alphas are op so it sounds to me like the problem is a team using 5 of them not the ability itself so why ban it completely why not limit it to 2.
And about your Tavaro go ahead and sit there and watch the teams buffs in the heat of battle to drop your grav pulse you will very rarely ever find a time to get more then 3 reliably your not going to get the magic 5 you claim there will be 3 people at all times that will have a clear or a counter available for a majority of the match. You havent answered my question yet has pandas ever lost to a team using these i win instant death automatically make you better consoles sarcasm just for your reference. I bet the answer is no yet you let others believe that thats what beats them are you just that much more of a superior fleet to all these other fleets that they can never achieve the skill level of you and beat teams with these consoles.
I don't disagree with you... it isn't PvPers making them the majority of there money .... it is the guys buying the RP style items. The issue here is Cryptic seems to think we are still a market they want to sell things to... how else to you explain things like the sub nuke doff... or even the tif field which I must say I have never ever seen a STF kid using.
Most of those games I listed don't have items for sale that work in pvp at all. There stores look like STOs minus the ships weapons and PvP doffs. They seem to be making profit as well funny enough.
http://www.riftgame.com/en/store/ (nothing for pvp)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store (nothing for pvp)
Funny thing is Cryptic keeps giving away things that make the most $ for other games... and charging for stuff that the other guys would never sell.
The speedy bank / merchent access we all get for free now from level 1 missions... that stuff is for sale everywhere else. Also sector space travel... why do we get transwarp for free... or borg engines that break the rules.... mount speed is a source of revenue. Also why can we drop a few thousand EC and transwarp anywhere we want ? Another source of revenue right there... pay for transwarp unlocks, or travel there slow like... or fast like if you pay for the proper speed modifiers.
... what isn't for sale though... is weapons and gear that destroys the stuff people don't pay for. The flavor with all the other MMO companies right now is to pretty much wall off pvp... creating very powerful long grind pve gear... and having pvp gear exist outside of that... Rift does it with actual PvP gear... GW does it by having a PvP paper doll with PvP only gear.
Both of those games have health PvP where the P2W doesn't exist... and people still play it in great numbers... and they still make a ton of money.
PS... I stand corrected in GW2 you can purchase finishers which allow you to Tbag properly.... nothing says FU in PvP more then this one "Crush your opponents with a falling cow finishing move in PvP and WvW"
Cosmetics for the Tbag emote you do have to love that.
Sounds like a hell of a premade setup to me. A use of multiple abilities that complement each other to create a build to beat another premades set of abilities that compliment each other. Both trying to achieve a desired efect 15 kills .
This is what a premade is its not 5 guys from the same fleet Its developing a build to beat the other teams build. Not you pick my build wich essentially is what you want. This game may be dog fighting and flying and coordination but pvp is also strategy thats half the fun for me.
And not just calling targets and switches but the strategy of building a 5 man team with ships and abilities that complement each other. If you think building one ship for pvp is fun try 5 its amazing. The strategy of countering what the other team will bring thats fun.
No need to be a **** towards me man, I was just saying that your single counter of engy team can have too high a price to use.
Also, you talk a mean game of counter on the forums, why not set up a match to show how easy it is to counter this stuff?
Do you even Science Bro?
Sorry i have no issue with you i just think your letting people sway your thinking and cloud your judgement. There needs to be some kind of critera in place for what is op or broken and because something isnt easily countered. I think it is seeing that the pandas have never lost to it.
The criteria cant be because 5 of them are op or its not easy to carry the counter because then i cant cycle tac teams or my friend says you suck if you use it. Now people are actually claiming that these abilities have no counter thats why they should be banned . These are total bs reasons is that so hard to understand.
I can hit you with vm3 with spread doffs and possibly hit 2 to 3 of your teamates also. I had alot of respect for you as being a good player why dont you and the pandas get together you are all equally skilled players would be even teams do the test put the counters on for inversion let them use it see what happens. Ibet you will be surprised. Im also not saying it would be easy is it supposed to be though am i supposed to make it easy for you to beat me.
Then come tell us the results fraps it so people can see that none of the counters work. Then you have proof not just stomping a guy that doesnt premade anymore with 4 other random guys. I trust that you would accept the challenge and try to get out of it.
I dont think you would fail on purpose just to prove a point. I think everyone here respects your skill level and would say if my and 4 guys of equal skill levelcouldnt counter the other team of equal skill level i would change my mind but i believe that with those counters you would find how easy it is to get out of.
I could not tell you my answer of your response to my first post in "Rules in PvP" thread.
So here I do so now. (Also I will make some sort of notes of what I did read here, etc.)
I understand your feelings. Really, but I am one of those people, who do not like to be disabled/drained/subnuced/scrambled or else by many GPs, AMSs, Subnucs, Aceton Assimilators, etc. The problem with that as maybe someone else said before is, the PvP community so we are not that player camp, who fund the game with bought zen. In this case we know that this will lead us to items, like these named as well as unnamed ones.
We also have known that for a long time that these are going to be not taken out from the game anymore. So we have to arrange, try and hold the queues safe and still provide fair, not spamming games/matches. The rules you speak about was on tourneys. As I said before it, too, a tourney's organiser will decide how the game will be fair and skilled. This must be accepted, not argued.
However as these rules are on the tourney, fortunately or unfortunately (who prefer which in this case) these are infiltrated in the public and these rules themselves trying to force the public itself to accept them. This is mentality. Why? Because people need rules. They want them, everyone has some sort of rules. People like if they have something standards to orient to. As rules give these standards, they want them.
Nevertheless I do understand that also many of players do not accept these rules, because they feel it is somehow against them, just because they have or use or not at all. Rules are not for one person's good, but the society's. But this is also mentality. Or I should quote our great vulcan: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
The real problem here (in my opinion, of course) is only the I.
Do I want to accept these or not?
Do I want to participate and play in fair matches or in full-spammed maps?
I think these two questions what must be asked by ourselves. We want to increase our fun of playing. This is an attitude of human, we like laughing, we like the funny things, but we also like being proud of ourselves.
We got items for this purpose. But what is more fun: click and dead (the named items, 5-min-played matches), or think and hunt (a.k.a. teamwork, builds, co-ordinated tactics with skills etc., 40-50-min-played matches or so)?
This is what I would have liked to share with you and with all of you.
Thank you,
i have no need to challenge them because i know that the counters arent as easy to use as you seem to think they are.
yeah there is counters, but the counters are useless if they have counters to your counters.
see what i'm saying?
you're the one who seems to not think this, and keep posting your "paper pvp" approch- x counters y when you dont factor the human factor of z into the paper pvp.
Do you even Science Bro?
Ok dude listen now you have gone from the counters dont work to they dont work well to now they are useless because the counters also have counters. So now that sounds like a fun game and every match ive ever been in one player attacks the other player counters the other player counters back thats the game. It wasnt a challenge it was a test match remember.
what? where have i said that counters dont work to that counters are useless? my point all along has been its not easy as black and white in saying x counters y when you constantly dont figure for z.
ive only made what... 2-3 posts during this entire thing and i've maintained what i've said-
counters countering counters = cant be figured for on forum pvp because of the human factor.
its easy to say anything on the forums but in the middle of combat its anything but easy.
there are too many factors to figure into when it comes to this game.
Do you even Science Bro?
we've seen this **** before bro.
you just can't argue with stupid.
hell, obviously this guy has been around for a bit....in that other thread he knew who i was but also knew i havnt been on that much to be part of any panda teams lately.
id say just dont respond anymore. i pride myself on being a strong diplomatic arm for our fleet. my posts are encouraging and honestly friendly. and this guy just responds with vitriol.
have fun kill bad guys, my old tsi friend.
I dont play this game to fullfill your grand vision of what pvp should be sorry but its true. I know thats a shot to your ego but i dont play the game to be told how i need to setup my ship up. I dont think that because i dont conform to your vision of grandure that multiple fleets have tried in the past TSI QEW SAD PANDAS TRH all it does is cause people to choose sides and fight and not in the q.
Its been tried before it fails and causes more problems every time. Dont bother play your privates with rules play your tournaments with rules and leave it at that. I didnt see your response on if it is boot camp policy to teach new players that these things are cheese and if its your policy to berate and call names in public chat.
I can show you the posts were people from bootcamp have said thats what they would do so do they teach that mentality. I havent heard you condem that you people actually think that using a console ingame is worse then calling someone names and trolling in public forums for hours after a match.
Remember its my q as much as it is yours you dont want to get pug stomped dont q solo go to kerrat do a cnh leave the arenas to the premades.
i dont want to communicate with a bunch of idiots I dont like and that dont like me. Did you see in the other thread how hard it was to get the best fleet in the game to setup a match against a pugmade. No thank you ill stick to the q why dont all you bad TRIBBLE fleets come out and start defending the q. Go kick those noob spam fleets that pick on poor pugs TRIBBLE hmm i think your scared. You can always warp out if you end up with pugs but if more premades q the q would be alive not some dead zone with a bunch of leachers and farmers and people who dont have any interest in joining a fleet to do 5 mans with.
ah well.. i can at least say i'd given it a try right?
i dont just kill bad guys, i kill everything that moves :P (war thunder is awesome and so is borderlands 2)
also, how do we report people/threads again?
Do you even Science Bro?
woah woah woah there buddy, TSI has never tried to force anyone to use or not use anything unless its been for events/private matches.
get your facts straight.
Do you even Science Bro?
What if they made FEs/Elite content available for Gold players only?
You guys forced me to use my Evasives to try and push Era away a lot
See this is what i dont understand read your post why do you think it will be easy for me with all the ingame variable to get my inversion off like the other team is just going to let me run around using inversion at will with nothing trying to stop me. Your saying the variables that would make your counters harder to pull off dont also affect the person being able to efectively inversion.
It will be easy for you to get your inversion off but hard for me to counter with the same variables. The human factor is what makes very little in this game op the ability to change your strategy for different builds. Im sorry that the human variable is the best counter to grav pulse and inversion. Im sorry you cant just instantly clear everything without using easy counters. If my team uses inversion and pandas dont will my team win. if not whats the problem. Ohh yeah i forgot criteria number 2 for an ability being op its annoying.
Well when you use double shields i guess you dont need rules.
To dream!
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
No need you can have all content F2P and still not have to make money of of PvP gear.
There are things that for some reason the Cryptic guys have decided to give away.
1) Transwarps ? why do we get this so cheep.
2) Speed boosts in sector space... borg engine bonus should get nixed... Quantum Slip stream should be removed... and replaced with a new slip stream module in all ships... then they can feel free to sell slip stream drives in the Cstore. Again mount speed is something everyone else make good money off of.
There are many other MMOs that ensure there store items do NOT effect PvP at all... and still tend to make money... considering the Trek IP they should have no issue making money off of the RP stuff.... I would wager the Tuffie promos have made more $ for Cryptic then anything aimed at PvP players. Look at the cell ship for example.