I just had an idea what if all the captain power were just options to pick from so everyone could mix and match.
At Lieutenant you could pick from Attack Pattern Alpha, Rotate Shield Frequency, or Sensor Scan. Every rank after that you could pick one of the three.
Kits would stay carrier based.
To make the carriers different you could have the skill point cost be low. So an Eng. Skill point cost would be .5k, 1.0k, 1.5k, 2.0k, 2.5k instead of 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k, 3k.
You could also make all carrier Boff powers a little better. Like all tactical powers would be 5% better if you were a Tactical captain.
I just had an idea what if all the captain power were just options to pick from so everyone could mix and match.
At Lieutenant you could pick from Attack Pattern Alpha, Rotate Shield Frequency, or Sensor Scan. Every rank after that you could pick one of the three.
Kits would stay carrier based.
To make the carriers different you could have the skill point cost be low. So an Eng. Skill point cost would be .5k, 1.0k, 1.5k, 2.0k, 2.5k instead of 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k, 3k.
You could also make all carrier Boff powers a little better. Like all tactical powers would be 5% better if you were a Tactical captain.
That wouldn't change much. Most (not all, but most) would then just choose:
APA or Sensor Scane
SNB
Nadion or Scattering Field
GDF or Miracle Worker (maybe Photonic Fleet)
Tac or Sci fleet
So for the most part, people would still just ignore the engineering ones. Stuff like SNB, APA are still way more useful compared to RSF or Engy fleet, etc.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
That wouldn't change much. Most (not all, but most) would then just choose:
APA or Sensor Scane
SNB
Nadion or Scattering Field
GDF or Miracle Worker (maybe Photonic Fleet)
Tac or Sci fleet
So for the most part, people would still just ignore the engineering ones. Stuff like SNB, APA are still way more useful compared to RSF or Engy fleet, etc.
This is fun!
Here's what I'd pick!
LT: APA
LTC: SNB CMD: Scattering Field (NI is a close second, but Force Multipliers always win). CPT: MW (w/ APA and SNB, trust me people will shoot you enough to need this) RAUH: Science Fleet (Tac Fleet a Close second)
Take a look at my choices, and I'll give you one guess as to which captain has overall the best suite of abilities.
Here's what I'd pick!
LT: APA
LTC: SNB CMD: Scattering Field (NI is a close second, but Force Multipliers always win). CPT: MW (w/ APA and SNB, trust me people will shoot you enough to need this) RAUH: Science Fleet (Tac Fleet a Close second)
Take a look at my choices, and I'll give you one guess as to which captain has overall the best suite of abilities.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
You could also just make them additional traits, same for the ground abilities
This effectively solves nothing that couldn't be solved by re-rolling.
Re-rolling characters is profitable for cryptic, it costs at the very least chunks of dilithium and keeps you playing the game.
It is also the currently available system and requires 0 effort or work.
vs. a brand new system that removes a system with 3+ years of precedence and requires a bunch of new work on the team's part, and reduces the need to make new characters.
Here's what I'd pick!
LT: APA
LTC: SNB CMD: Scattering Field (NI is a close second, but Force Multipliers always win). CPT: MW (w/ APA and SNB, trust me people will shoot you enough to need this) RAUH: Science Fleet (Tac Fleet a Close second)
Take a look at my choices, and I'll give you one guess as to which captain has overall the best suite of abilities.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
So, the best solutions we have come up with to make the engineer more effective in PvP premades is the following
1) Mix and match other class powers.. AKA don't play an engineer
2) Reroll a character... AKA don't play an engineer.
I see this board is really going places with innovative ideas. :rolleyes:
Eleven of Twenty-Nine. Thousands of pvp matches done...hundreds of tournaments ran..and still seeing the same problems grow even larger than ever for us engineers.
Here's what I'd pick!
LT: APA
LTC: SNB CMD: Scattering Field (NI is a close second, but Force Multipliers always win). CPT: MW (w/ APA and SNB, trust me people will shoot you enough to need this) RAUH: Science Fleet (Tac Fleet a Close second)
It's kind of sad, thinking about that list. Cause yeah, you head over and look at http://sto.gamepedia.com/Player_ability and then your list...well, yeah. Kind of points to there being an issue with both Tac and Eng, lol...
ENG is for survival.
TAC is for Jesus revival every 5 seconds.
Right? eyh?
In other Words. Heroes die.
Clever ones builds, and sustain hardship.
Then anybody who has been playing an engineer since launch must be very clever.
The point of view that is held here is that tac/escorts tanking and out healing cruisers is fine... and balanced. Sci/sci doing massive damage while tanking and healing is also balanced.. engineer/cruiser not doing enough damage to get through either sci or tac's defenses before they are destroyed because tanking is broken in this game... is balanced.
Because if you mention the concept of adjusting the parameters of the engineer to move into the other 2 areas.. since tanking is pointless, you might as well be slapping a nun and kicking a puppy from the outrage the community has to this idea.
Because remember, anybody who rolled an engineer signed a contract that they would play this game only to heal you. Any alteration of this concept or attempt to extend this role past being your healbot is in direct violation of the terms and conditions stated.
And people wonder why less than 2% of the population pvp's any more... should be less than 1% soon.
Eleven of Twenty-Nine. Thousands of pvp matches done...hundreds of tournaments ran..and still seeing the same problems grow even larger than ever for us engineers.
What I was trying to get at with captains picking one of three powers at each rank is that Cryptic could balances the powers easier.
If 49% of people a pick Attack Pattern Alpha and 49% pick Sensor Scan but most people pick Miracle Worker then they would know, buff Rotate Shield Frequency and nerf Miracle Worker. (Note this is just an example) Cryptic is all for customization.
One of the big reasons I play an Eng. Is I like the ground powers better and the 3 of the space powers are for damage mitigation.
If I could pick my powers they would be
RSF
SNB (if there was a heal for this rank I would pick it plus I don?t need more power I am already at 102/130/48/130)
SF
MW
EF
I still wish that MW and RSF could be casted on others.
I was also thinking that an engineer is a person that understands how things ?work? what if they had a trait/power that gave them extra damage vs pets/spam.
It is really sad to me how badly the engineer has been left behind. I started this game during closed beta. I can't think of a single time anybody has complained about how "OP" the engineer is, just hard to kill at best. I remember science using Viral Matrix and Subnuke to do a 32 second shutdown of ships... that was fun...
I remember tac having such wicked crit they could instantly vaporize anybody in front of them before they could press a key....
The most "powerful" we ever had it, was when we could sometimes shield resist cap ourselves near to 100% for a few moments. But the rage was great on that one.. and RSF and other abilities got kicked in the face shortly after.
The game can never be fixed until the systems are leveled out.
Damage = Stacking with no diminishing returns
Defense = MASSIVE diminishing returns
How can you ever hope to fix a system that uses 2 different mathematical devices to determine their comparative value?
4 tac consoles should be just an ideal way to get 2 energy and 2 kinetic consoles installed, because more than 2 would be just as ugly as more than 2 neutronium consoles... pretty much useless.
But people don't care about balancing out the system.. not really. They want to put up DPS DPS DPS DPS and brag about massive numbers. As long as they are blowing up everything in front of them with impunity, they are happy. They truly don't care about balance, even though it would make for a far better game.
As far as engineer powers go, as I see it.. simple fixes make us useful in groups
1) Miracle worker usable on others
2) EPS Power grid is an AOE effect that teammates can benefit from
3) NI works in some additional bleedthrough for a unique kind of damage buff ( because lets face it..engineers don't need power drain reduction on weapons.. we have power coming out our rear ends )
4) RSF can stay as it is.
But the game using 2 different systems for defense and attack and the lack of group-assisting abilities, create a problem that the engineer can not ever overcome. We can do well,.. but never have the capacity to do what the other classes can do, as it stands now.
I really want to see STO's PvP community grow and thrive, but I think it is safe to say that after 3 years the sign on the club door says, "Engineers not preferred/wanted". I don't think that sign is going to change any time soon.
Eleven of Twenty-Nine. Thousands of pvp matches done...hundreds of tournaments ran..and still seeing the same problems grow even larger than ever for us engineers.
His key point is a bullseye. Engineers face caps and diminishing returns on all their class advantages, while others do not.
If Engineers did not have a power cap at 125 (or higher these days) it would make a big difference in the way current engineer skills worked, including NI.
Afterall NI is suddenly useful if my weapons power is 220 and I'm reducing power spent on heavy dual cannons and BO3 during an alpha.
It would also make EPS more useful if my Aux2Bat from 200 Aux gives me 140 across the board, enhanced by EPS for over 200 in weapons, shields, and engines for my attack.
The point is, removing the power cap for Engineers makes them instantly viable in space PvP, although I still think team abilities would be a nice improvement as well.
His key point is a bullseye. Engineers face caps and diminishing returns on all their class advantages, while others do not.
If Engineers did not have a power cap at 125 (or higher these days) it would make a big difference in the way current engineer skills worked, including NI.
Afterall NI is suddenly useful if my weapons power is 220 and I'm reducing power spent on heavy dual cannons and BO3 during an alpha.
It would also make EPS more useful if my Aux2Bat from 200 Aux gives me 140 across the board, enhanced by EPS for over 200 in weapons, shields, and engines for my attack.
The point is, removing the power cap for Engineers makes them instantly viable in space PvP, although I still think team abilities would be a nice improvement as well.
200 would be OP...
I believe 150 would would come close to an alpha buff; DDIS did some math a few pages back. 140-145 would seem to be more realistic. Engineers should have better running ships than sci and tac but I would not want an engineer to to be better than both and have great self heals to boot.
I just want them to be competitive especially in a team setting.
My Engscort is perfectly viable in PvP, when I use it correctly. Doesn't matter that my Tacscort does more damage when it doesn't stay alive half as long. Other than a few thousand more skill points to spend, the only thing I'd add is access to Attack Pattern Alpha.
If Engineers did not have a power cap at 125 (or higher these days) it would make a big difference in the way current engineer skills worked, including NI.
Afterall NI is suddenly useful if my weapons power is 220 and I'm reducing power spent on heavy dual cannons and BO3 during an alpha.
I'm going to keep this brief since there was already basically an entire conversation in this very thread.
150 Power weapons cap would basically make Engineers roughly equal damage/spike capable vs. Tac captains, except they get to keep all of their other powers.
220 would be just complete lunacy.
220 weapons power vs. 125 weapons power would be a +190% flat damage boost.
Since APA is +50%, that would be nearly 4x as powerful as APA. So obviously beyond overpowered.
(Some) People seem to want to play their engineers and be very survivable while also dealing damage in someway.
Eng is not a damage dealer, and was never designed to be.
If you want to deal damage, play a Tac. Making Eng have Tac level damage doesn't solve game balance, it just creates new problems.
eng can only step on toes, there is nothing left for it to do. damage or debuff/control, thats all there is. every ship is multiclassed cleric, every ship has heals, every ship has an TRIBBLE load of passives and proc heals and resistance. this is not a thing for a captain type to specialize when no mater what you have access to all this stuff.
the eng as it is would only have a reason to exist with its self heals were the only heals in the game
so, a fixed eng can ONLY step on toes if it is fixed in a way that makes it worth using.
150 Power weapons cap would basically make Engineers roughly equal damage/spike capable vs. Tac captains, except they get to keep all of their other powers. 220 would be just complete lunacy.
I agree this would be over, reaching. An increase in cap of 5 on each system,..min and max, meaning +5 min power and +5 max power would not be overly powerful.. but noticeable.
(Some) People seem to want to play their engineers and be very survivable while also dealing damage in someway.
Eng is not a damage dealer, and was never designed to be.
And yet escorts/tac can tank like nobody's business. They were not tanks, nor were they ever designed to be. I am sorry, but you can not have it both ways. Either our MASSIVELY slow and un-turnable ships get a boost.... in damage (which is extremely canon by the way) or tac's need to get kicked in the butt and go back to being pure DPS. . Not DPS/TANK like you have become. This argument is frankly hypocritical and I am tired of reading it
If you want to deal damage, play a Tac. Making Eng have Tac level damage doesn't solve game balance, it just creates new problems.
No, it does not. I have never asked to be raised to the level of a Tac/Escort. But either tacs need to be reduced in tanking ability, or we need damage. It is really that simple.
Put aside your "roll a tac" garbage and realize that 90% of the problems engineers have now, is because the other classes can do what we used to do... and do it almost equally.. WHILE doing massive damage.
It is an age old argument and frankly,.. if you want your tac to tank.. ROLL AN ENGINEER. That is my response to the way things are working for your classes right now.
It goes both ways.. except at least your classes are viable.. ours are not.
I wonder why that is....
Your arguments are invalid.
Eleven of Twenty-Nine. Thousands of pvp matches done...hundreds of tournaments ran..and still seeing the same problems grow even larger than ever for us engineers.
No, it does not. I have never asked to be raised to the level of a Tac/Escort. But either tacs need to be reduced in tanking ability, or we need damage. It is really that simple.
My last post wasn't addressing you, you also seem to be confusing Ships & Captains.
Reducing Escort tanking would be fine with me, but there will always be cross-healing. They're still primary targets in premades, because contrary to what you keep saying they don't tank like you think they do in comparison.
It's kind of irrelevant anyway, since Escorts are not a captain type and we are discussing captain powers.
Giving Eng more damage doesn't even make sense in reality. Because they are a captain type, that can fly Escorts.
If they did close to as much damage as a Tac, why wouldn't you put them in an Escort and have even tankier escorts? the thing that you seem to hate.
This is why giving Engineers more damage causes more problems than it solves.
Thinking that Engineers with more damage will suddenly flock to Beam Cruisers is a complete mistake.
Giving Eng strong damage options, just gives us a new type of Tactical captain that has more survivability tools.
As I said, several dozens of posts ago, balance is tricker than it looks.
My last post wasn't addressing you, you also seem to be confusing Ships & Captains.
Reducing Escort tanking would be fine with me, but there will always be cross-healing. They're still primary targets in premades, because contrary to what you keep saying they don't tank like you think they do in comparison.
It's kind of irrelevant anyway, since Escorts are not a captain type and we are discussing captain powers.
I think at this point I have to stop responding to you, you seem incapable of sticking to a straight conversation and constantly resort to putting words in my mouth.
I don't care about cross-healing. That is a mechanic that requires cooperation. I am aware that a captain is not a ship type. I am using the baseline mechanic that we started with. When the game launched, most tacs flew escorts and most engineers flew cruisers.
Substitute any ship you want with any captain you want...and you will still find the same result. Tanking is a joke, when the caps are so strong on defense and there are no caps on attacking.
As far as putting words in your mouth, take it any way you want it. But every time I see you post, you seem to think that there is some 4'th mechanic we can utilize in this game to make the engineer better.
There is tanking, dps, and support.
Tanking is broken.....even more so when any ship and captain combination can do it.
So that leaves us 2 options,..dps and support. Since we already have a decent amount of support, we need damage options... or the tanking baseline of non-tanking ships needs to go down.
You would be best not to reply, if you can't see this,.. because I grow weary of the single minded DPS DPS DPS DPS people who think that 1/3 of the classes out there are made just to serve them...either as a healer or to pad their scores.
The class is broken. I want to see it fixed. Balance makes for a better game... for everybody.
Eleven of Twenty-Nine. Thousands of pvp matches done...hundreds of tournaments ran..and still seeing the same problems grow even larger than ever for us engineers.
Giving Eng more damage doesn't even make sense in reality. Because they are a captain type, that can fly Escorts.
If they did close to as much damage as a Tac, why wouldn't you put them in an Escort and have even tankier escorts? the thing that you seem to hate.
This is why giving Engineers more damage causes more problems than it solves.
Thinking that Engineers with more damage will suddenly flock to Beam Cruisers is a complete mistake.
Giving Eng strong damage options, just gives us a new type of Tactical captain that has more survivability tools.
As I said, several dozens of posts ago, balance is tricker than it looks.
When I am talking about increasing damage, I am not talking about going all the way to the tactical officer level of alpha. Not even close. But it is massively infuriating when you fire on a tac officer in any ship and you don't even have enough firepower to bring down 1 shield arc as they dance all over your face.
This is why I mentioned changing NI to a bleedthrough mechanic. This is not a burst mechanic, this is a sustained damage mechanic that can add something different. We don't need reduced weapon power drain. We barely drop weapon power under max any more, because of all the additional buffs we get, through our traits and doffs. Using combinations of batteries and Emergency power to "X" powers, is more than we need.
I would like to see what you think about our class abilities. What would you change? Why?
I never said balance was easy. We are so far below that balance, I would be willing to take a half gimpy raise. Fleets don't want to bring an engineer to a premade match, if they have to give up sci or tac buffs in it's stead. Damage is so high and defense caps fixed.. that even fully buffed you can be popped in under 2 seconds.
Our powers don't give us an escape or group assists.. or really much defense. Miracle worker buys you a few seconds, but that is all. EPS and NI ... both of these don't matter much these days at all. RTS is good in a pinch, after a subnuke or whatnot. But you rarely need to touch it, because your shield resists are most likely already capped. Engineering Fleet is pathetic.
So, I can see why groups avoid us as first or second choice. We bring literally nothing to the table, class-wise.
But just to be clear,.. I am not asking for DPS = Tactical. I am stating what we have is too weak and we are not much of a threat to anybody. It would be nice to have options.... usable options.
Eleven of Twenty-Nine. Thousands of pvp matches done...hundreds of tournaments ran..and still seeing the same problems grow even larger than ever for us engineers.
Comments
At Lieutenant you could pick from Attack Pattern Alpha, Rotate Shield Frequency, or Sensor Scan. Every rank after that you could pick one of the three.
Kits would stay carrier based.
To make the carriers different you could have the skill point cost be low. So an Eng. Skill point cost would be .5k, 1.0k, 1.5k, 2.0k, 2.5k instead of 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k, 3k.
You could also make all carrier Boff powers a little better. Like all tactical powers would be 5% better if you were a Tactical captain.
That wouldn't change much. Most (not all, but most) would then just choose:
APA or Sensor Scane
SNB
Nadion or Scattering Field
GDF or Miracle Worker (maybe Photonic Fleet)
Tac or Sci fleet
So for the most part, people would still just ignore the engineering ones. Stuff like SNB, APA are still way more useful compared to RSF or Engy fleet, etc.
This is fun!
Here's what I'd pick!
LT: APA
LTC: SNB
CMD: Scattering Field (NI is a close second, but Force Multipliers always win).
CPT: MW (w/ APA and SNB, trust me people will shoot you enough to need this)
RAUH: Science Fleet (Tac Fleet a Close second)
Take a look at my choices, and I'll give you one guess as to which captain has overall the best suite of abilities.
Please say it isn't this Captain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjloX_EvYiI
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Close, but no cigar!
This effectively solves nothing that couldn't be solved by re-rolling.
Re-rolling characters is profitable for cryptic, it costs at the very least chunks of dilithium and keeps you playing the game.
It is also the currently available system and requires 0 effort or work.
vs. a brand new system that removes a system with 3+ years of precedence and requires a bunch of new work on the team's part, and reduces the need to make new characters.
Guess which option is the likeliest?
Captain Planet?
1) Mix and match other class powers.. AKA don't play an engineer
2) Reroll a character... AKA don't play an engineer.
I see this board is really going places with innovative ideas. :rolleyes:
It's kind of sad, thinking about that list. Cause yeah, you head over and look at http://sto.gamepedia.com/Player_ability and then your list...well, yeah. Kind of points to there being an issue with both Tac and Eng, lol...
Lets be mature and honest.
What OP try to say is;
ENG is for survival.
TAC is for Jesus revival every 5 seconds.
Right? eyh?
In other Words. Heroes die.
Clever ones builds, and sustain hardship.
Then anybody who has been playing an engineer since launch must be very clever.
The point of view that is held here is that tac/escorts tanking and out healing cruisers is fine... and balanced. Sci/sci doing massive damage while tanking and healing is also balanced.. engineer/cruiser not doing enough damage to get through either sci or tac's defenses before they are destroyed because tanking is broken in this game... is balanced.
Because if you mention the concept of adjusting the parameters of the engineer to move into the other 2 areas.. since tanking is pointless, you might as well be slapping a nun and kicking a puppy from the outrage the community has to this idea.
Because remember, anybody who rolled an engineer signed a contract that they would play this game only to heal you. Any alteration of this concept or attempt to extend this role past being your healbot is in direct violation of the terms and conditions stated.
And people wonder why less than 2% of the population pvp's any more... should be less than 1% soon.
If 49% of people a pick Attack Pattern Alpha and 49% pick Sensor Scan but most people pick Miracle Worker then they would know, buff Rotate Shield Frequency and nerf Miracle Worker. (Note this is just an example) Cryptic is all for customization.
One of the big reasons I play an Eng. Is I like the ground powers better and the 3 of the space powers are for damage mitigation.
If I could pick my powers they would be
RSF
SNB (if there was a heal for this rank I would pick it plus I don?t need more power I am already at 102/130/48/130)
SF
MW
EF
I still wish that MW and RSF could be casted on others.
I was also thinking that an engineer is a person that understands how things ?work? what if they had a trait/power that gave them extra damage vs pets/spam.
I remember tac having such wicked crit they could instantly vaporize anybody in front of them before they could press a key....
The most "powerful" we ever had it, was when we could sometimes shield resist cap ourselves near to 100% for a few moments. But the rage was great on that one.. and RSF and other abilities got kicked in the face shortly after.
The game can never be fixed until the systems are leveled out.
Damage = Stacking with no diminishing returns
Defense = MASSIVE diminishing returns
How can you ever hope to fix a system that uses 2 different mathematical devices to determine their comparative value?
4 tac consoles should be just an ideal way to get 2 energy and 2 kinetic consoles installed, because more than 2 would be just as ugly as more than 2 neutronium consoles... pretty much useless.
But people don't care about balancing out the system.. not really. They want to put up DPS DPS DPS DPS and brag about massive numbers. As long as they are blowing up everything in front of them with impunity, they are happy. They truly don't care about balance, even though it would make for a far better game.
As far as engineer powers go, as I see it.. simple fixes make us useful in groups
1) Miracle worker usable on others
2) EPS Power grid is an AOE effect that teammates can benefit from
3) NI works in some additional bleedthrough for a unique kind of damage buff ( because lets face it..engineers don't need power drain reduction on weapons.. we have power coming out our rear ends )
4) RSF can stay as it is.
But the game using 2 different systems for defense and attack and the lack of group-assisting abilities, create a problem that the engineer can not ever overcome. We can do well,.. but never have the capacity to do what the other classes can do, as it stands now.
I really want to see STO's PvP community grow and thrive, but I think it is safe to say that after 3 years the sign on the club door says, "Engineers not preferred/wanted". I don't think that sign is going to change any time soon.
His key point is a bullseye. Engineers face caps and diminishing returns on all their class advantages, while others do not.
If Engineers did not have a power cap at 125 (or higher these days) it would make a big difference in the way current engineer skills worked, including NI.
Afterall NI is suddenly useful if my weapons power is 220 and I'm reducing power spent on heavy dual cannons and BO3 during an alpha.
It would also make EPS more useful if my Aux2Bat from 200 Aux gives me 140 across the board, enhanced by EPS for over 200 in weapons, shields, and engines for my attack.
The point is, removing the power cap for Engineers makes them instantly viable in space PvP, although I still think team abilities would be a nice improvement as well.
Rules of Acquisition at Priority One
200 would be OP...
I believe 150 would would come close to an alpha buff; DDIS did some math a few pages back. 140-145 would seem to be more realistic. Engineers should have better running ships than sci and tac but I would not want an engineer to to be better than both and have great self heals to boot.
I just want them to be competitive especially in a team setting.
I'm going to keep this brief since there was already basically an entire conversation in this very thread.
150 Power weapons cap would basically make Engineers roughly equal damage/spike capable vs. Tac captains, except they get to keep all of their other powers.
220 would be just complete lunacy.
220 weapons power vs. 125 weapons power would be a +190% flat damage boost.
Since APA is +50%, that would be nearly 4x as powerful as APA. So obviously beyond overpowered.
(Some) People seem to want to play their engineers and be very survivable while also dealing damage in someway.
Eng is not a damage dealer, and was never designed to be.
If you want to deal damage, play a Tac. Making Eng have Tac level damage doesn't solve game balance, it just creates new problems.
the eng as it is would only have a reason to exist with its self heals were the only heals in the game
so, a fixed eng can ONLY step on toes if it is fixed in a way that makes it worth using.
I agree this would be over, reaching. An increase in cap of 5 on each system,..min and max, meaning +5 min power and +5 max power would not be overly powerful.. but noticeable.
And yet escorts/tac can tank like nobody's business. They were not tanks, nor were they ever designed to be. I am sorry, but you can not have it both ways. Either our MASSIVELY slow and un-turnable ships get a boost.... in damage (which is extremely canon by the way) or tac's need to get kicked in the butt and go back to being pure DPS. . Not DPS/TANK like you have become. This argument is frankly hypocritical and I am tired of reading it
No, it does not. I have never asked to be raised to the level of a Tac/Escort. But either tacs need to be reduced in tanking ability, or we need damage. It is really that simple.
Put aside your "roll a tac" garbage and realize that 90% of the problems engineers have now, is because the other classes can do what we used to do... and do it almost equally.. WHILE doing massive damage.
It is an age old argument and frankly,.. if you want your tac to tank.. ROLL AN ENGINEER. That is my response to the way things are working for your classes right now.
It goes both ways.. except at least your classes are viable.. ours are not.
I wonder why that is....
Your arguments are invalid.
My last post wasn't addressing you, you also seem to be confusing Ships & Captains.
Reducing Escort tanking would be fine with me, but there will always be cross-healing. They're still primary targets in premades, because contrary to what you keep saying they don't tank like you think they do in comparison.
It's kind of irrelevant anyway, since Escorts are not a captain type and we are discussing captain powers.
Giving Eng more damage doesn't even make sense in reality. Because they are a captain type, that can fly Escorts.
If they did close to as much damage as a Tac, why wouldn't you put them in an Escort and have even tankier escorts? the thing that you seem to hate.
This is why giving Engineers more damage causes more problems than it solves.
Thinking that Engineers with more damage will suddenly flock to Beam Cruisers is a complete mistake.
Giving Eng strong damage options, just gives us a new type of Tactical captain that has more survivability tools.
As I said, several dozens of posts ago, balance is tricker than it looks.
I don't care about cross-healing. That is a mechanic that requires cooperation. I am aware that a captain is not a ship type. I am using the baseline mechanic that we started with. When the game launched, most tacs flew escorts and most engineers flew cruisers.
Substitute any ship you want with any captain you want...and you will still find the same result. Tanking is a joke, when the caps are so strong on defense and there are no caps on attacking.
As far as putting words in your mouth, take it any way you want it. But every time I see you post, you seem to think that there is some 4'th mechanic we can utilize in this game to make the engineer better.
There is tanking, dps, and support.
Tanking is broken.....even more so when any ship and captain combination can do it.
So that leaves us 2 options,..dps and support. Since we already have a decent amount of support, we need damage options... or the tanking baseline of non-tanking ships needs to go down.
You would be best not to reply, if you can't see this,.. because I grow weary of the single minded DPS DPS DPS DPS people who think that 1/3 of the classes out there are made just to serve them...either as a healer or to pad their scores.
The class is broken. I want to see it fixed. Balance makes for a better game... for everybody.
When I am talking about increasing damage, I am not talking about going all the way to the tactical officer level of alpha. Not even close. But it is massively infuriating when you fire on a tac officer in any ship and you don't even have enough firepower to bring down 1 shield arc as they dance all over your face.
This is why I mentioned changing NI to a bleedthrough mechanic. This is not a burst mechanic, this is a sustained damage mechanic that can add something different. We don't need reduced weapon power drain. We barely drop weapon power under max any more, because of all the additional buffs we get, through our traits and doffs. Using combinations of batteries and Emergency power to "X" powers, is more than we need.
I would like to see what you think about our class abilities. What would you change? Why?
I never said balance was easy. We are so far below that balance, I would be willing to take a half gimpy raise. Fleets don't want to bring an engineer to a premade match, if they have to give up sci or tac buffs in it's stead. Damage is so high and defense caps fixed.. that even fully buffed you can be popped in under 2 seconds.
Our powers don't give us an escape or group assists.. or really much defense. Miracle worker buys you a few seconds, but that is all. EPS and NI ... both of these don't matter much these days at all. RTS is good in a pinch, after a subnuke or whatnot. But you rarely need to touch it, because your shield resists are most likely already capped. Engineering Fleet is pathetic.
So, I can see why groups avoid us as first or second choice. We bring literally nothing to the table, class-wise.
But just to be clear,.. I am not asking for DPS = Tactical. I am stating what we have is too weak and we are not much of a threat to anybody. It would be nice to have options.... usable options.