test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Why do you hate the Nebula, Cryptic?
momaw
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
For those less versed in Star Trek, the "Advanced Research Vessel" is a Nebula-class ship. I could point out that in Trek lore, the Nebula is considered to be in the same weight and armament class as the Galaxy, which was the largest and most powerful ship the Federation had constructed to date... But since the Galaxy is also not done justice in STO, that's probably not a good comparison. I could also give a point by point breakdown of its stats, but here's a much more effective way to look at the situation:
Take a cruiser. Remove 25% of the firepower. Remove 25% of the hull durability. Change the inarguably useful engineer Commander to a questionable science Commander. And then, to make it fair and reasonable, give it sensor analysis: An ability that requires a full minute of engaging the same target to reach its full potential. And even then all it's doing is making up for your missing weapons. And increase the turn rate a bit, because this is a ship that can mount dual heavy cannons and needs to maintain a narrow firing arc at short range. (That was sarcasm)
Or, look at the Fleet Corsair from the KDF side. It's another science/engineering hybrid so it arguably has the same general role. Corsair has slightly different seating and no useless sensor analysis... but it has 4/4 weapons so basically the buff from sensor analysis is active all the time without having to flail at a target for a minute first. Plus it has a flight deck for huge gains in firepower, support, or debuff potential.
:rolleyes:
Basically, why is the Nebula all costs and downsides. What exactly is it buying by giving up so much? As far as I can tell: Nothing.
Buff Nebula.
Take a cruiser. Remove 25% of the firepower. Remove 25% of the hull durability. Change the inarguably useful engineer Commander to a questionable science Commander. And then, to make it fair and reasonable, give it sensor analysis: An ability that requires a full minute of engaging the same target to reach its full potential. And even then all it's doing is making up for your missing weapons. And increase the turn rate a bit, because this is a ship that can mount dual heavy cannons and needs to maintain a narrow firing arc at short range. (That was sarcasm)
Or, look at the Fleet Corsair from the KDF side. It's another science/engineering hybrid so it arguably has the same general role. Corsair has slightly different seating and no useless sensor analysis... but it has 4/4 weapons so basically the buff from sensor analysis is active all the time without having to flail at a target for a minute first. Plus it has a flight deck for huge gains in firepower, support, or debuff potential.
:rolleyes:
Basically, why is the Nebula all costs and downsides. What exactly is it buying by giving up so much? As far as I can tell: Nothing.
Buff Nebula.
Post edited by momaw on
0
Comments
At least its a change from the normal complaints about the Galaxy or the Klingons.
It's just a continuation of the larger symptoms within the game
And, it's the forums lol
All those folks who really really LOVE the JHAS don't exactly feel slighted.
Oh and I guess Excelsior fans too?
the Fed
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
the klink
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
the Rom
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=11717101#post11717101
i started the original because i thought that the neb was a little underpowered, needed a new skin to match newer designs, and that the pods could really bring out the potential of the Neb.
Fed: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=780321
RR: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12150781#post12150781
KDF: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=784941
Nebulas can be made to deal more damage than Galaxy-class starships. In a PvE scenario, this is beneficial to the team, and in PvP, there are numerous builds that are created for the Nebula-class which work effectively.
Sorry, but I feel no emotion towards this particular forum post. It is based on the OP's emotion, and not fact.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I can do pretty decent damage as a sci using this ship, The only thing i would have changed on her, Like the Fleet Galaxy a extra engineering console was the last thing she needed. It should have been a tact console. Esp as the Recon, Nova and Intrepid all got extra tact consoles.
I have no issues in Elite Stfs and can take down the Negh'var spawns at the dock station fairly quickly. Solo borg cubes in Kase, I can even do kang duty in Elite stf's with this ship and handle the 3 Raptor spawns. Something i've seen Tact Escort pilots fail to do with their cannons attack patterns and tactical fleets.
The Nebula is a good, solid all round ship. But i will stress with the extra tact consoles the other 3 ships i mentioned got she has been left behind slightly in the dps department compared with these.
And I could point out this is (EDITED: )nonsense
Galaxy 4,500,000 tons. 12 Phaser Banks 3 Torpedo Launchers (11 Phaser Banks, 2 Torpedo Launchers in connected mode)
Nebula 3,309,000 tons 5 Phaser Banks 3 Torpedo Launchers (with Tactical Module)
That's less than half the Phaser firepower of the Galaxy and less mass than the Ambassador class (3,7 million tons).
In terms of gameplay I can't find anything wrong with the Nebula.
She has and incredaubly strong hull combined with good shields.
The BOFF seating is fine and the universal Lt permits the player to make her either a good supporter or a good firing platform depending on your playstlye.
It's a wonderful allround science ship that simply refuses to die.
The Nebula is one of the more versatile ships, it's a Sci ship that can act very much like a Cruiser and can perform well despite it's lack of 8 weapons.
The only flaw I can see with it is I'd love to see it with the Venture skin on.
If this ship is not for you than I suggest you fly something else rather than complain. Let's be honest everybody knows the Galaxy R could be greatly improved from absolute worst possible cruiser to quite usable by the inclusion of a Universal Ensign. Much like they did for the Fleet Negh'var. And yet years later this flawed design has been left unchanged despite the many campaigns as such.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Usually firepower wise he was chasing after our lower range escorts in the 5kdps region especially after he got his hands on a romulan plasma torp(which he liked better than the omega)
Harden up Princess
Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website:
www.ausmonauts.com
most have 1/2 the turn rate
1/2 the firepower
less additional weapon power than klingon ships who also have cloaks that dont require console slots
Fed cruisers cant mount dual heavy cannons
now the klingons are taking 2nd place to the romulans in power and are feeling it leaving the feds in 3rd place
In general cryptic wants you to spend money to compete
Fed ships underpowered upgrade to klingon
klingons underpowered upgrade to Romulan
And last but not least the very overpowered lock box ships
cryptic makes money !!!!!!
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Sci ships themselves could use some work, IMO.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
Because a Sovereign with 16 phasers, 9 photon torps, and a quantum torp would be smart in this game?
Cruisers is the only spot where the KDF is actually better than the Federation...KDF has a weaker hull for the cost of cloak.
How many Cruisers have you seen wielding cannons in canon? Only ship ever seen using cannons was the Defiant...and well if I remember the Vesta had one.
You're truly on something if you think the Feds are inferior to KDF in many more ways than Cruisers.
So Nebula is bad because it has too much science and not enough cruiser, unlike the Fleet Corsair which does similar things but with greater effect?
I'll buy that.
But given that Cryptic is implicitly never going to fix science, let's just change the Nebula so it's good at things which work.
http://imgur.com/kfzkFmg
http://i.imgur.com/u6RiyLx.jpg
I know of course that with only three fore-aft weapons and the fact that it's a SCI boat the Neb probably won't be maxing out the DPS charts anytime soon so I've attempted to try to maximize my DPS capabilities with consoles that provides +Accuracy and the built-in bonuses with the Spiral Waves. My BoFF skills also provide a goodly number of heals for my teammates or myself if I somehow grab aggro. There are rare occasions -- usually on fleet mark runs -- where I will be the top on the parse but that's so rare I consider it a humorous anomaly.
The OP is correct in stating that the hull isn't as big as a cruiser, nor do I think it should be. This build puts the hull around 48K and shields around 10k though so I think that's proven to be more than enough and capable of surviving most STFs unless I get hit with a one-shot kill. If I somehow draw aggro the hull and my heals seem to handle it well enough.
The Commander SCI slot is immensely useful as you can use Gravity Well 3 in there. A well timed grav well along with a good torp spread from myself or teammates can do considerable burst damage and effective crowd control. If there's an alert teammate in a high DPS build ship, setting up the targets like this for them is very useful.
The biggest draw for me on this ship is the versatility. I've run multiple different BoFF layouts and ship loadouts and most of them prove more than enough for most needs or at least entertain me when I want to try something different. Since I often don't know what type of teammates I might have, I keep some consoles or items in inventory to change the ship config on the fly to meet the needs of the group.
I won't lie though all that tinkering and tweaking took a long time as I needed to gather either the EC, credits, marks, or dilithium for all the components. But since this is an MMO what's the hurry?
My biggest complaint about the Neb is that the specialized console (Tachyon grid) which comes with the ship is effectively useless in PvE. If it were to be provided with some team buff to enhance teammates targeting accuracy or damage output for a short period of time it'd be worth the slot. As it is now that console collects dust in the bank.
The problem is the Fleet Corsair is a Cruiser and the Fleet Nebula is a Sci vessel. You may as well compare the Nebula to the Odyssey or Fleet Assault. Apples don't taste like Oranges.
If the Fleet Corsair is the ship for you, make a KDF character and acquire it, enjoy.
But complaining that a Sci Vessel isn't a Cruiser is dead end.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
I don't think the comparison is at all unreasonable. Both of these ships are engineering/science hybrids.
Fleet Corsair:
####
###
##
##
#
Fleet Nebula:
####
###
##
##
#
They're a little different in the particulars, but it's clear that both of these ships are in the same general line of work. Heck, they even have the exact same console layout. (2/4/4). Which is why I'm feeling like the Nebula is badly underclassed.
Basically, Nebula gains stronger shields but gives up a big chunk of hull strength. You can argue this one either way. But what's not really at all comparable is that Nebula gains subtargeting at the cost of a massive amount of firepower. Not only 25% less in direct firepower, but also the pets, which are basically another 25% in firepower on top of that. For an ability which mildly hampers an enemy and has a minute long cooldown for the specific one which is most useful to you). Sensor analysis doesn't even figure into this equation as a bonus at all, since the 4/4 guns put out the same damage as 3/3 guns with maxed out sensor analysis and they do it constantly without having to wait.
The only thing Nebula has that's outright better is the universal lieutenant. But then... If you put an engineer in there, both ships have the same number of seats per profession, the difference is that Corsair gains access to a commander engineer ability and Nebula gains access to a commander science ability. What are your other options... Science officer? Tactical officer? What could you possibly put in there that will make up for missing 2 gun mounts and 6 fighters?
And I already have a KDF charcter. And a fleet Corsair. What's wrong with wanting ships across factions to have similar levels of performance?
The comparison is completely unreasonable one is a Cruiser the other a Science ship. A Science ship is never going to be a Cruiser. Your not asking for the Nebula to be upgraded as a Science ship your asking for the Nebula to be made into a Cruiser. That's great for what you want, but it screws over everyone who wants it to stay a Sci ship.
Now do I think Science skills & Science Vessel need a Buff? Yes I do, because I think Science was Nerfed too far.
As to wanting ships across the factions to be balanced, yep totally agree there. But your not asking for the Fed Sci Heavy Cruiser to be on par with the KDF Sci Heavy Cruiser. Your asking for the Fed Eng Heavy Sci Vessel to be equal to the KDF Sci Heavy Cruiser. And it's just not going to happen.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
And yes, Sensor Analysis can be a great equalizer. For a simple example, if you have an 8-beam cruiser doing 300 DPS per that's 2,400 DPS for all 8 beams. If you have a 6-beam Sci doing 300 DPS that's 1,800 DPS, with up to a 33.3% buff from SA taking you to 2,400 DPS. So in battles lasting 10 seconds or more the Sci is equivalent to the Cruiser in even weapon damage. And I'll say again, the Sci also has all the indirect damage science abilities that help it and its teammates.
Even in canon the Nebula was roughly half as powerful as it's Galaxy mother-design ship whereas the in-game Fleet Nebula is every bit as viable as the vast majority of other Fleet cruisers and sci vessels. Yes, there's always going to be something slightly better but there's nothing wrong with the current design. Yours is simply an issue of "I want X to be exactly what I want it to be."
Sensor analysis in particular is almost worth nothing if you have to switch targets now and then - like in throwing a heal to a team mate or say, placing a gravity well or so.
I do like the nebula but its a sci ship and as such it suffers the drawbacks:
- average-to-bad turnrate (with exceptions!)
- average-to-bad hull points
- low amount of weapons
- high amount of useless extras
- low amount of tactical bridge officers
- below average amount of tactical consoles
the lack of weapon slots really forces some hard choices when it comes to sets that include a weapon.
Now looking at some of the new romulan toys, you get a lot of science heavy ships with a solid amount of sci bridge slots, bristling with weapons, sporting cloaks, good hull and shields, the ability to mount cannons (CANNOOOOOONS!) and a big bucket of sciency singularity abilities to boot.
In a lot of cases i sincerly have to ask "is it worth sacrificing 2 weapons, lots of hull, some turn-rate, a good amount of tac slots/officers for a commander sci slot and somewhat higher shields?" because those sensor analysis and subsystem targeting are next to worthless. And usually the answer is no.
tldr;
its not the nebula, its science ships in general.
Blatantly incorrect.
Every 6 seconds you get 1 stack of Sensor Analysis, which increases damage against your selected target by 3.3% This effect stacks up to 10 times, which takes one minute. Ten stacks at 3.3% = 33%, or, effectively making your 3 weapons hit like 4. A science ship has the same firepower as a cruiser after 1 minute of engaging the same target. Which makes it largely pointless A.) Because nothing less than a boss should take a minute to kill, not even for a science ship B.) Because it actively punishes you for switching targets, even to allies, which means all those science based heals-- one of the few things science is GREAT at-- are limited to your own personal use.
You're right: I want it to not be handicapped and irrelevant. You caught me red-handed.
If you only want to focus on DPS then Cruisers and Sci suck. Escorts rule. Only fly them.
The catch is that those cruisers aren't generally doing USEFUL damage that can be directed against specific objects, they just spew MOAR LAZORZ.
Nobody's saying Sci abilities don't need a fix - we've been saying that for year. We're simply saying that the Neb is one of the most functional Sci ships in the game. It wasn't designed to be a Cruiser or an Escort. It does it's job very well.
And let's be honest here. The "Neb should have been a Cruiser" argument is around 3 years old now. It's not going to change this far in.