since Starfleet still got treaty with Romulans about not using cloak.....
Fed should not have a cloak ....
and since they have, it must be console bcs its extra
treaty was with the romulan government before sela's coup.
they dont exist anymore:rolleyes:
Not according to the current President of Star Fleet, despite the lack of a Romulan Empire the Federation still agreed not to develop cloaking technology because Romulans aren't the only power in the Universe.
Now if in game they altered this agreement and every ship could equip a cloaking device that would be fine. But as it stands the games backstory says no to Federation cloaking except for Siskos Defiant and Admiral Rikers Enterprise D.
They are more a shout out to the fans to have a show accurate ship than Federation adopting cloaking technology.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
treaty was with the romulan government before sela's coup.
they dont exist anymore:rolleyes:
As I already pointed out earlier in this thread: just because a government changes treaties don't suddenly become invalid.
Otherwise every time that happens the state in question would have to redo every treaty it has ever made with anyone.
That's immensely stupid.
The gov didn't change treaties the government with which that treaty was signed is completely dead so yes they can develope battle cloaks for this 1 ship, people on the klingon side just want to have their cake and eat it too.
1: They could easily change this over without damaging the game.
2: all concerns with this being non canon are void because of all of the other things that have been done to the game to break canon
3: people just want to be selfish and keep pvp advantages in their premades.
The fact of the matter is many things will have changed because of the new Rom gov and new Rom alliances with both the Fed and Klingons and they would have definitely enhanced the technology just like the liberated Borg members of crews improved technology in their ships.
It's time for many things to change this is just 1 of the items that should change.
I'll just leave this right here. did I cover everything?
The gov didn't change treaties the government with which that treaty was signed is completely dead so yes they can develope battle cloaks for this 1 ship, people on the klingon side just want to have their cake and eat it too.
1: They could easily change this over without damaging the game.
2: all concerns with this being non canon are void because of all of the other things that have been done to the game to break canon
3: people just want to be selfish and keep pvp advantages in their premades.
The fact of the matter is many things will have changed because of the new Rom gov and new Rom alliances with both the Fed and Klingons and they would have definitely enhanced the technology just like the liberated Borg members of crews improved technology in their ships.
It's time for many things to change this is just 1 of the items that should change.
I'll just leave this right here. did I cover everything?
The Romulan Republic is considered a successor to the RSE. It has been reckognized as such by both the governments of the Federation and the Klingon Empire, as well as hints of others doing the same through the Romulan story progression, like the Suliban and the Cardassians. The Romulan Republic is considered as the new valid representative of the Romulan and Reman people in the galaxy with the former RSE being almost non-existant, shreaded and divided by civil conflicts.
Therefore, all treaties established with the RSE government are now valid with the RR government. It has happened in quite a few real world situations like misterde3 pointed out - after the fall of the Soviet Union, all international treaties were valid for Russia as the main successor of the USSR, or after the breakup of Yugoslavia when all successor countries inherited the international agreements previously made.
Luckily Aennik Okeg and the Federation government obviously still hold to the main principles of the Federation, showing honor, dignity and respect unlike many players that play as Fed.
Furthermore, D'tan is a smart man. He would never risk making enemies instead of allies from the Klingons by cancelling the treaty. Mol'Rihan is the main target on Tal'Shiar's list, that also goes for the Elachi, the Hirogen are not playing nice and he has a friggin' Iconian Gateway on his planet! Starting a war with the Klingons is the last thing he'd want.
1. No they can't.
2. If it is so, why are we playing Star Trek??
3. LOL
But please don't let me convince you about anything. You should play the KDF side more often, we have soo much cake and are eating a ton of cake daily. :rolleyes: In fact, we eat so much cake that we have become like this guy! :P
Yeah a treaty that the current Federation president decided to continue to honor.
hes an undine anyway, so who cares what that psudo-saurian thinks? also, there was a significant period of time between the fall and collapse of the empire and the rise of the republic, during which the treaties were invalid due to all signers other than the federation being defunct or at war with us, (the prevention of further war being the reason for the existence of the treaty). further, the romulan republic has not pushed to be considered the successor state to the romulan empire nor is it pushing for the enforcement of old treaties, due to its weak political position.
with all that being said, as a fed player and RPing federation ambassador, i dont think the feds should EVER get battle cloak. however, i do think the defiant and gal-x should have integrated regular cloak. further, i think that for RP purposes, there should be some way for fed players to get a regular cloak console. it can be argued that regular cloak has its purposes in exploration.
the reason it will never happen is because PVP would never work with both sides cloaked.
it does kind of suck that one entire faction is unable to ever be the aggressor for totally arbitrary reasons, forced to just sit there and wait to be attacked, like im playing NPCs for someone to farm. BUT THAT'S BALANCE!
The original Defiant did not come with a cloaking device. The device was added only when they needed a way to contact the Dominion. Therefore this game is staying true to what the Defiant is supposed to be (no integral cloak).
Although I would not complain if the fleet defiant got a battle cloak I only believe it should be integrated with the ship and not a console. The ship already suffers deficiencies when compared to the bug ship, turn, hull, shield, boffs and it's 1 advantage takes up a console slot which then becomes a plus AND a minus ability.
But, then you'd be paying $25 for a ship without a console. Hard to justify paying that much for a ship with just cloak (when you can get a T5 B'rel BoP for $20, and has the Enhanced Battle Cloak).
They'd have to replace it with a new console to make people want to buy that ship.
i am not for an integradted battle cloack for the defiant or galaxy x, but just for a normal integrated cloack that require no console to use.
in these time of all universal console ship, having a cloack that is not a battle cloack to required a console slot is outright limiting the ship.
and when you have a ship with stats like the galaxy x wasting a console slot on this one push it capacity even further into oblivion compared to nowaday ships
hes an undine anyway, so who cares what that psudo-saurian thinks? also, there was a significant period of time between the fall and collapse of the empire and the rise of the republic, during which the treaties were invalid due to all signers other than the federation being defunct or at war with us, (the prevention of further war being the reason for the existence of the treaty). further, the romulan republic has not pushed to be considered the successor state to the romulan empire nor is it pushing for the enforcement of old treaties, due to its weak political position.
with all that being said, as a fed player and RPing federation ambassador, i dont think the feds should EVER get battle cloak. however, i do think the defiant and gal-x should have integrated regular cloak. further, i think that for RP purposes, there should be some way for fed players to get a regular cloak console. it can be argued that regular cloak has its purposes in exploration.
the reason it will never happen is because PVP would never work with both sides cloaked.
it does kind of suck that one entire faction is unable to ever be the aggressor for totally arbitrary reasons, forced to just sit there and wait to be attacked, like im playing NPCs for someone to farm. BUT THAT'S BALANCE!
Contrary to what people think and how the devs build some of these ships Starfleet shouldn't and isn't supposed to be a *aggressor*.
Second you're acting like all ships are balanced but yet KDF can cloak...that isn't the case by far. Most KDF ships are inferior to Fed...especially all these new ships have been getting in the last two years while KDF got nothing.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I would love to see the Defiant with a build in battle cloak, and even more when I take a look at the Fleet T'varo and it's Singularity Powers, at the moment the C-Store T5 Defiant is not worth the 25$.
When I compare the the three ships we are talking about right now the Defiant, B'rel and T'varo:
Defiant:
The Defiant would get a normal build in battle cloak, but she would keep her shield and hull strength.
B'rel:
The B'rel needs a console layout change to 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering and 3 Science Console Slots. With it's high turnrate she is a great ship and special in combination with the Enhanced Battle Cloak that allows you to use abilities while cloaked.
T'varo:
The T'varo also has an Enhanced Battle Cloak that gives the ship the same abilities like the B'rel, and you also get the Singularity Powers.
Don't forget to get more hull on the B'rel and on the T'varo you can use the new Fleet Neutronium Alloys.
I fly a Fleet Defiant. I don't really care one way or another for battle cloak. She gets the job done and hasn't really given problems since I bought it.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
s cents, One the RR is a totally new government and never signed the Treaty of Algeron. thus Feds can cloak.
Also Defiant was equipped with a romulan cloaking device thus by all rights the defiant that currently has cloak should have an intgretated battle cloak. The Galx should have normal cloak.
"Starfleet Security admitted that the U.S.S. Kelso was testing a Federation cloaking device. The Romulans then ejected all Federation diplomats and ships from their space in protest, and Chancellor J'mpok recalled the Klingon ambassador to the Federation back to Qo'noS for "strategic discussions."
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387.
After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear.
He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace.""
So no...doesn't look like we will have all kinda of Feds flying around with Battlecloak...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Why not!
Give the fleet defiant the exact stats of the fleet hoh'sus except the skin; both factions already have access to eachothers consoles, so it makes sense.
"Starfleet Security admitted that the U.S.S. Kelso was testing a Federation cloaking device. The Romulans then ejected all Federation diplomats and ships from their space in protest, and Chancellor J'mpok recalled the Klingon ambassador to the Federation back to Qo'noS for "strategic discussions."
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387.
After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear.
He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace.""
So no...doesn't look like we will have all kinda of Feds flying around with Battlecloak...
The problem with this post is that the Fed's have access to cloaking devises and they use them on the Defiant and on the Galaxy-X.
All Cloaks should become integrated into the ship and not force you to use a console slot.
Not all ships get a cloak.
The very few ships on the fed side have a battle cloak on the shows.
The battle cloak gives alpha attack boosts, and so do Romulan bridge officers. Build the same bonus into KDF bridge officers and most problems are solved.
I love the defiant class ship, I use it almost exclusively on my main toons I play. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a cloak equipped due to not wanting to spend the console slot on an ability that quite honestly without the battle cloak ability is a total one trick pony. The grappler from the enterprise bundle is honestly more useful than the cloak in combat, at least I can fire it off a few times in combat. The 2 fed ships that have the ability to use a cloak are both specific and limited. The Defiant can't take as many hits as the ship should be able to and the Galaxy X has the turning rate of a star base.
In my opinion the Galaxy X is not a great ship, I have always felt it was pretty limited. I got one when they came out, geared it up, played a few days and now its in my mothball fleet. In order to get a top tier Defiant class ship you need to buy 2 ships in the zen store and one in the fleet store.
Please Dev's just make all cloaks integrated and able to be used in combat, just push the majority of the bonus damage to racial traits for bridge officers and the captains.
Damage boosts on decloaking are one of worst things in the game. If you cant get a surprise bonus from decloaking on somebody's tail, you don't deserve helper damage. And if you can do it, you dont need the helper damage.
On the issue of the Defiant getting battle cloak, I'm going to have to say no. Despite the fact that yes, it was used in battle in DS9, for the sake of whiners I'm just going to have to say no. I don't even use it much honestly. I ditched it to free up a spare console.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
since battlecloak is better than cloak, and it would free up a console slot, i think the defiant could have integrated battlecloak at the expense of one a tactical console.
since battlecloak is better than cloak, and it would free up a console slot, i think the defiant could have integrated battlecloak at the expense of one a tactical console.
That would be fair, considering T'varo retrofit and B'rel retrofit both only have 3
It also means it won't happen since Cryptic wont make that kind of change to a c-store ship
Comments
Fed should not have a cloak ....
and since they have, it must be console bcs its extra
Not according to the current President of Star Fleet, despite the lack of a Romulan Empire the Federation still agreed not to develop cloaking technology because Romulans aren't the only power in the Universe.
Now if in game they altered this agreement and every ship could equip a cloaking device that would be fine. But as it stands the games backstory says no to Federation cloaking except for Siskos Defiant and Admiral Rikers Enterprise D.
They are more a shout out to the fans to have a show accurate ship than Federation adopting cloaking technology.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
As I already pointed out earlier in this thread: just because a government changes treaties don't suddenly become invalid.
Otherwise every time that happens the state in question would have to redo every treaty it has ever made with anyone.
That's immensely stupid.
1: They could easily change this over without damaging the game.
2: all concerns with this being non canon are void because of all of the other things that have been done to the game to break canon
3: people just want to be selfish and keep pvp advantages in their premades.
The fact of the matter is many things will have changed because of the new Rom gov and new Rom alliances with both the Fed and Klingons and they would have definitely enhanced the technology just like the liberated Borg members of crews improved technology in their ships.
It's time for many things to change this is just 1 of the items that should change.
I'll just leave this right here. did I cover everything?
The Romulan Republic is considered a successor to the RSE. It has been reckognized as such by both the governments of the Federation and the Klingon Empire, as well as hints of others doing the same through the Romulan story progression, like the Suliban and the Cardassians. The Romulan Republic is considered as the new valid representative of the Romulan and Reman people in the galaxy with the former RSE being almost non-existant, shreaded and divided by civil conflicts.
Therefore, all treaties established with the RSE government are now valid with the RR government. It has happened in quite a few real world situations like misterde3 pointed out - after the fall of the Soviet Union, all international treaties were valid for Russia as the main successor of the USSR, or after the breakup of Yugoslavia when all successor countries inherited the international agreements previously made.
Luckily Aennik Okeg and the Federation government obviously still hold to the main principles of the Federation, showing honor, dignity and respect unlike many players that play as Fed.
Furthermore, D'tan is a smart man. He would never risk making enemies instead of allies from the Klingons by cancelling the treaty. Mol'Rihan is the main target on Tal'Shiar's list, that also goes for the Elachi, the Hirogen are not playing nice and he has a friggin' Iconian Gateway on his planet! Starting a war with the Klingons is the last thing he'd want.
1. No they can't.
2. If it is so, why are we playing Star Trek??
3. LOL
But please don't let me convince you about anything. You should play the KDF side more often, we have soo much cake and are eating a ton of cake daily. :rolleyes: In fact, we eat so much cake that we have become like this guy! :P
Yeah a treaty that the current Federation president decided to continue to honor.
hes an undine anyway, so who cares what that psudo-saurian thinks? also, there was a significant period of time between the fall and collapse of the empire and the rise of the republic, during which the treaties were invalid due to all signers other than the federation being defunct or at war with us, (the prevention of further war being the reason for the existence of the treaty). further, the romulan republic has not pushed to be considered the successor state to the romulan empire nor is it pushing for the enforcement of old treaties, due to its weak political position.
with all that being said, as a fed player and RPing federation ambassador, i dont think the feds should EVER get battle cloak. however, i do think the defiant and gal-x should have integrated regular cloak. further, i think that for RP purposes, there should be some way for fed players to get a regular cloak console. it can be argued that regular cloak has its purposes in exploration.
the reason it will never happen is because PVP would never work with both sides cloaked.
it does kind of suck that one entire faction is unable to ever be the aggressor for totally arbitrary reasons, forced to just sit there and wait to be attacked, like im playing NPCs for someone to farm. BUT THAT'S BALANCE!
They'd have to replace it with a new console to make people want to buy that ship.
in these time of all universal console ship, having a cloack that is not a battle cloack to required a console slot is outright limiting the ship.
and when you have a ship with stats like the galaxy x wasting a console slot on this one push it capacity even further into oblivion compared to nowaday ships
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
Contrary to what people think and how the devs build some of these ships Starfleet shouldn't and isn't supposed to be a *aggressor*.
Second you're acting like all ships are balanced but yet KDF can cloak...that isn't the case by far. Most KDF ships are inferior to Fed...especially all these new ships have been getting in the last two years while KDF got nothing.
When I compare the the three ships we are talking about right now the Defiant, B'rel and T'varo:
Defiant:
The Defiant would get a normal build in battle cloak, but she would keep her shield and hull strength.
B'rel:
The B'rel needs a console layout change to 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering and 3 Science Console Slots. With it's high turnrate she is a great ship and special in combination with the Enhanced Battle Cloak that allows you to use abilities while cloaked.
T'varo:
The T'varo also has an Enhanced Battle Cloak that gives the ship the same abilities like the B'rel, and you also get the Singularity Powers.
Don't forget to get more hull on the B'rel and on the T'varo you can use the new Fleet Neutronium Alloys.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
Also Defiant was equipped with a romulan cloaking device thus by all rights the defiant that currently has cloak should have an intgretated battle cloak. The Galx should have normal cloak.
After the revelation that Starfleet was testing a cloaking device, tensions between the Federation, Romulans and Klingons were at their highest point since the destruction of the Romulan homeworld in 2387.
After a full inquiry, six members of Starfleet Security were court-martialed.
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear.
He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace.""
So no...doesn't look like we will have all kinda of Feds flying around with Battlecloak...
Give the fleet defiant the exact stats of the fleet hoh'sus except the skin; both factions already have access to eachothers consoles, so it makes sense.
The problem with this post is that the Fed's have access to cloaking devises and they use them on the Defiant and on the Galaxy-X.
With other words the game contradict itself.
The defiant was a sort of exception because of the dominion war at the time, it was unmothballed by Sisko.
The Galaxy-X might also be an exception with the Borg/undine/True Way/Tal Shiar threats.
I am talking about the game not the show.
Would you rather they have no cloak at all? I think we're closer to that then them ever getting Battlecloak.
Not all ships get a cloak.
The very few ships on the fed side have a battle cloak on the shows.
The battle cloak gives alpha attack boosts, and so do Romulan bridge officers. Build the same bonus into KDF bridge officers and most problems are solved.
I love the defiant class ship, I use it almost exclusively on my main toons I play. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a cloak equipped due to not wanting to spend the console slot on an ability that quite honestly without the battle cloak ability is a total one trick pony. The grappler from the enterprise bundle is honestly more useful than the cloak in combat, at least I can fire it off a few times in combat. The 2 fed ships that have the ability to use a cloak are both specific and limited. The Defiant can't take as many hits as the ship should be able to and the Galaxy X has the turning rate of a star base.
In my opinion the Galaxy X is not a great ship, I have always felt it was pretty limited. I got one when they came out, geared it up, played a few days and now its in my mothball fleet. In order to get a top tier Defiant class ship you need to buy 2 ships in the zen store and one in the fleet store.
Please Dev's just make all cloaks integrated and able to be used in combat, just push the majority of the bonus damage to racial traits for bridge officers and the captains.
On the issue of the Defiant getting battle cloak, I'm going to have to say no. Despite the fact that yes, it was used in battle in DS9, for the sake of whiners I'm just going to have to say no. I don't even use it much honestly. I ditched it to free up a spare console.
Dreadnought class. Two times the size, three times the speed. Advanced weaponry. Modified for a minimal crew. Unlike most Federation vessels, it's built solely for combat.
It also means it won't happen since Cryptic wont make that kind of change to a c-store ship