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Weapon power draining
fdashx497
Member Posts: 19 Arc User
it is known that higher weapon power = more damage, but what about after the draining occurs? if i have my ship weapon on 125 with 8 beams, after firing once it drains to 125 - 70 = 55. but suppose if i add a equipment or something that gives me an additional 10 weapon power, the initial level should still be 125 but maybe after draining it would be 55 + 10 = 65?
i think i noticed this happening with emergency power to weapons but not sure if the effect is real on damage.
so if after all the console/skill adding additional power that i can reach 125 with only 90 or 95 on the initial base setting, should i up that to 100 at all times?
i think i noticed this happening with emergency power to weapons but not sure if the effect is real on damage.
so if after all the console/skill adding additional power that i can reach 125 with only 90 or 95 on the initial base setting, should i up that to 100 at all times?
Post edited by fdashx497 on
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How much you plunk into weapons is a matter of role and preference. I can tell you, though, that more weapon power increases how fast things die, unless you are holding steady at 125 while firing anyway... or didn't put any skill points into Energy Weapons and Energy Weapon Specialization.
Judging by the 8 beams, I'm guessing you planted a good amount of skill points in those skills, though. However, you may have more beams than you actually benefit from; there was another gameplay thread awhile back about someone testing the firing cycles of 6 vs 8 beams... I'll post it here if I can find it for you.
if you are not poping weapon batteries and eptw non stop, id suggest cutting a beam or 2 for a torp. you will notice better damage
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
i do this with EPtS I and III but i think my defensive capability is a bit overkill while DPS is too low
As far as I know, the cap of 135 no longer exists. But since weapons power overcapping has changed several times, it is possible that a recent patch has restored the cap of 135. Do you have data that shows this has changed recently?
Once you have aux2bat and eptw grab 3 technician doff's that reduce skill cooldown, purple doffs and you can keep aux2bat and eptw going constant but they cost 12 million ec+ and blue are around 3 million, so do like i did and use 3 green until you can afford better.
Other things to add for more weapon power is Assimilated module, Zero point energy conduit, Jem'Hadar engine, and if KDF the Honor guard engine.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Universal_Consoles#Plasmonic_Leech
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Omega_Adapted_Borg_Technology_Set#Assimilated_Module
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Romulan_Singularity_Harness#Zero_Point_Energy_Conduit
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Jem%27Hadar_Combat_Impulse_Engines
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Honor_Guard_Impulse_Engines#Klingon_Honor_Guard_Impulse_Engines
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Disengage safety protocols!!!! << cool new feature for STO (Klingon only)
but srsly this sucks no wonder my weapons power still has drain when i'm running naturally aspirated 125 power to weapons without having even hit emergency power to weapons or aux to battery... EPS flow regulators and EPS transfer should AT LEAST keep the power UP at 125 considering they're the power transfer abilities that brings the supply of energy TO the weapons FROM the warp core.
cause sometimes its party time!
natuaraly aspirated? the warp core has a carbeurator? lol j/k
"Disengage safety protocols" sounds like an excelent new skill but one that can backfire with serious system damage if using. maybe a new injury that actualy weakens the ship until its repaired or a temporary injury that gives a damage resist and weapon power debuff from hell that lasts until the skill cooldown is done. Skill could be a 15% increase in damage resist and damage dealt for 15 seconds, 2 minute cooldown and a 50% chance of system failure resulting in 15% damage resist and dealt debuff. Available as a universal commander boff skill. Alpha strikes could be alpha "oh TRIBBLE" or "Ooh Yeah"...
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Then you can switch another beam array for the cutting beam (same as above, add the console for extra cookies), which does kinetic damage (you don't have any so far) and use as much weapon power than a turret. However, the cutting beam isn't affected by FAW, or any beam related skill/console.
Then, I suggest you use a plasmonic leech console (exchange if Fed, Cstore ship if KDF). And an aux2bat build would do wonder on your cruiser. Even if you can't afford marion and purple technicians doff, you will still enjoy a lot of power and less CD on skills, if you use 3 blue/green technicians.
I think it's easier to have 135+weapon power using aux2bat (except on sci ship) than using EPtW, considering the emergency share a CD with the incredibly powerful EPtS. Not to mention the extra power in shield and engine.
I can say this with the leech and 6 polaron beams, wide angle torp, and KCB my power level stays around 125-110 with the leech during combat but thats not the only thing, my shield power sits at 107 and the other 2 are higher than set for as well. So all that extra power helps in more ways than just weapons. better surveiveability and stronger weapons. Win win situation!
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
haha right, 'aspirated' as in i'm still 125 power to weapons even in sector space. Well 121 atm until the armor console slots arrive I've been hearing about. could run it right now but i'd have to sacrifice my neutronium..
cause sometimes its party time!
aspirated in the simplest term means to breath and a carb is considered natuaraly aspirated rather than turbo or a blower which is forced induction. we are talking ships and that was the first thing i thought of when you said that.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Hrmmm, can do a quick test...
Base
126/100
87/65
58/20
36/15
+EPtW1 & Manifold
151/100
97/65
68/20
46/15
+EPtS1 & Manifold
161/100
122/65
68/20
46/15
+5 Stack MACO Shields
171/100
132/65
78/20
56/20
+EPS Power Transfer (normally change custom preset)
205/100
165/65
112/20
89/15
4x Rom Plasma Array (-10 drain)
1x Experimental (folks still debate if there is actually drain or not)
1x Cutting Beam (-8 drain)
All are on a 4/5 cycle and set for autofire.
The most likely Weapon Power would be the 161/100...high defense makes MACO stacks unlikely in PvE.
So dropping Weapon Power down to x/75, would give me 136/75.
If there is a 135 cap, then there should be no noticeable difference in DPS nor any noticeable change in how Weapon Power visually fluctuates.
I'll pull my torps...do 3x parses of SB234 @~161/100 and 3x @~136/75 with the weapons noted above. I'll just look at the Starbase 234 encounter - no offensive buffs outside of EPtW1 will be used (not even TT - don't need the shield distribution for this scenario). Will circle at 8-10km range.
@~161/100
1 - 1.2m base, 622.8k done, 2851.8 EncDPS (3:35 dur)
2 - 1.3m base, 668.6k done, 2959.6 EncDPS (3:40 dur)
3 - 1.2m base, 632.7k done, 2981.7 EncDPS (3:31 dur)
Avg EncDPS: 2931.0
Can say before I pull up the numbers, though - the visual fluctuation was much greater.
@~136/75
1 - 1.0m base, 537.3k done, 2513.3 EncDPS (3:30 dur)
2 - 1.1m base, 568.8k done, 2537.9 EncDPS (3:39 dur)
3 - 0.9m base, 471.6k done, 2643.3 EncDPS (3:08 dur) - shorter duration because of a pesky Prometheus whose Vectors didn't despawn
Avg EncDPS: 2564.8
An average of ~14.3% more DPS @~161 vs @~136...and again, that was without any offensive buffs outside of EPtW1. The difference would have been more...and note, that difference was just based on drain buffer - there's no direct DPS gain by going over 125 - it's just drain buffer.
...so I'd say that 135 is not a cap.
/edit what I mean is, if power >125 is just excess against drain and 125 is the max damage modifier, you won't be able to reliably gauge that with the kcb if you have the assimilated console equipped too.
All good. But what (t)his build needs to have added is Directed Energy Modulation (preferably 3), plus a Marion doff.
I know there are those who say you don't really need Marion on an A2B build (getting so much injected power and all); but considering that DEM itself, of course, also benefits from the 'standard' 3x purple tech doffs to shorten boff ability recharge time, DEM will be active most of the time: and thus so will Marion!
I fly a wicked A2B/FAW Fleet Excelsior with 7 beams (and a KCB). And wep power is as good as always at, or very near absolute max. Never gross dips like suddenly being 77 or something. Of course, having plasmonic leech never hurts either (at least it doesn't hurt you, LOL).
DEM/Marion is already an excellent combo; but within an A2B context, double its usefulness.
There's going to be other issues as well, such as him having the Omega Graviton Amplifier passive. Hrmmm, I'll have to see about running that on another guy without that as well. Hrmm, I still have the parses there - I could just remove that amount. As you said though, the OWA procs could offset drain and cause various results depending on the manner in which the planets are aligned.
That's one of the reasons I tried to do three for each - so it wasn't just one lucky proc parse vs. an unlucky proc parse. Cause not only the OWA and OGA, there's also that they're Romulan Plasma...there's a potential Disruptor proc.
Hrmmm, I've got to do "Flying High" on nine guys - but I can take a look at that in about an hour.
edit: Okay, it's going to be more than an hour...meh.
This time though, he's sporting 8x common Mk X Phaser Beam Arrays with 4x common Mk X Phaser Relays (yes, I'm cheap - hrmm). I won't truncate the numbers this time.
@~161/100
1 - 1,113,625 base damage - 627,746 done - 2,947.16 EncDPS (3:27 Dur)
2 - 1,116,935 base damage - 631,288 done - 3,067.48 EncDPS (3:25 Dur)
3 - 1,090,029 base damage - 616,510 done - 2,924.62 EncDPS (3:27 Dur)
Avg EncDPS: 2,979.75
@~136/75
1 - 876,825 base damage - 498,887 done - 2,418.26 EncDPS (3:21 Dur)
2 - 799,819 base damage - 457,985 done - 2,497.19 EncDPS (3:02 Dur)
3 - 908,421 base damage - 518,915 done - 2,622.29 EncDPS (3:12 Dur)
Avg EncDPS: 2512.58
Pesky MVAM slowed me down, taking out the modules for @~136/75#2.
I looked at @~136/75#2 and why it stood out like it did...
#1 - 8% crit, 2071 Phaser Array hits, 232.19 avg damage, 24 OGA hits
#2 - 9% crit, 1896 Phaser Array hits, 230.45 avg damage, 28 OGA hits
#3 - 8% crit, 2117 Phaser Array hits, 235.20 avg damage, 28 OGA hits
...and hrmm, I'm going to guess phaser procs on the shields perhaps? Not sure.
So what was the difference in avg EncDPS this time? +18.6% by having ~161/100 instead of ~136/100.
For the ~161, there was a difference of 142.86 DPS between the high and low.
For the ~136, there was a difference of 204.03 DPS between the high and low.
On one hand, that makes me want to retest the ~136, but honestly - compare the high ~136 vs. the low ~161...the ~161 is still +11.5% better.
So yeah, I'm not seeing the cap at 135. Somebody mentioned it might be 150...hrmm, I'm not sure that I could tell the difference...that would be ~151/90 vs ~161/100. Perhaps just one test instead of 3? I'll think about it...
@~161/100
1 - 1,113,625 base damage - 627,746 done - 2,947.16 EncDPS (3:27 Dur)
2 - 1,116,935 base damage - 631,288 done - 3,067.48 EncDPS (3:25 Dur)
3 - 1,090,029 base damage - 616,510 done - 2,924.62 EncDPS (3:27 Dur)
Avg EncDPS: 2,979.75
@~151/90
1 - 1,017,842 base damage - 576,174 done - 2,684.87 EncDPS (3:29 Dur)
2 - 995,711 base damage - 566,398 done - 2,698.42 EncDPS (3:24 Dur)
3 - 1,044,316 base damage - 592,319 done - 2,783.35 EncDPS (3:28 Dur)
Avg EncDPS: 2722.2
+9.46% difference still. So yeah, I'm thinking it's not 150 either. At least with #3 this time there was a reason for that bump 9% crit vs. 8% for #2 and 7% for #1.
A few months back Maelwy5 posted that this extra buffer works only with beam weapons:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5685181&postcount=27
Would you be willing to confirm that his findings are still accurate? My own testing suggests that overcapping, contrary to what Maelwys found back then, is actually useful for cannons (DHCs, DCs, turrets).
Hrmmm, non-beams would be tougher. At least with the test environment I've been using. I can give it a go, though...it may mean using TT1 as an offensive buff as well as EPtW1 because of sitting on the target instead of circling. Circling, the Starbase missed at least 28% of the time and only took about 12.5% of the damage it dealt. Sitting still will drop that toon's defense from +85% to +15%.
But if I have to do that, I'll just have to spacebar it or something to make sure that it's as consistent as possible...will see if I need it or not, but yeah - I'll take a look. I've only got one toon that runs cannons, 3x Projectile - 5x Beams/Projectile - 1 DHCs/DBB/Torp/Turrets. I'll drop 4x DHCs on the guy that did the beam testing above though - the testing was in a Chel Grett...
Great work thanks for confirming what I always belived.
I suck at these tests and numbers myself so if you have the time can you test a few other things that may be pushing dps up like like eps/ power transfer rate consoles supposedly making overcapped weapon power transfer back to your weapons faster?
Also can you check if the damage bonus from beams keeps scaling up from overcapped weapon power? not sure if it shows in tooltip or not but have heard people saying this.
Lastly can you also check if non beam weapons benefit from any overcapping.
All weapon damage scaling stops at 125 power. The only reason you do more damage with overcap is because more weapons are firing at higher power.
Beams benefit the most from overcapping thanks to their long firing cycle, but every other weapon should benefit from it.
It'd be roughly this order (Which is inverse to the firing cycles)
Beam Arrays/Dual Beam Banks - Most Benefit
Dual Cannons/Cannons/Turrets
Dual Heavy Cannons - Least Benefit
If I do...I'm curious if beams always at 125 may be better then cannons that are 125-X
Stupid tests, stupid everything!!!!
But this is why I like min/maxing....monkey wrenches...MONKEY WRENCHES EVERYWHERE!!!!!
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
....don't feel bad - I just switched to Beams after using exclusively cannons for at least a year....according to other people who have crunched some numbers Beams are even with cannons now, in terms of DPS,....I have not number crunched myself so yelling at me would be a waste of time.....I'm still just going by feel and to be honest it's hard for me to tell sometimes......To the OP: I'll see if I can find the spreadsheet that may help(if you want).....even though everyone here seems to be way ahead of me....
@~161/100
1 - 708,025 base damage - 384,417 done - 2,146.38 EncDPS (2:59 Dur) - 9% Crit
2 - 657,125 base damage - 355,881 done - 2,249.56 EncDPS (2:38 Dur) - 13% Crit
3 - 723,601 base damage - 392,660 done - 2,298.95 EncDPS (2:50 Dur) - 11% Crit
Avg EncDPS: 2,231.63
@~151/90
1 - 806,964 base damage - 438,242 done - 2,274.22 EncDPS (3:12 Dur) - 11% Crit
2 -
3 -
Avg EncDPS:
@~136/75
1 - 740,153 base damage - 401,260 done - 2,192.68 EncDPS (3:03 Dur) - 9% Crit
2 -
3 -
Avg EncDPS:
@~126/65
1 - 782,971 base damage - 425,447 done - 2,304.70 EncDPS (3:04 Dur) - 10% Crit
So yeah, after doing the first 150 test - I decided to skip the next two and do the 135 test. After doing the 135 test - I decided to skip the next two and add in a 125 test...
I've seen the Beam vs. DHC drain discussions, but as I said only one of guys runs cannons (5 Beams/Projectile, 3 Projectile, and 1 Cannon Mixed). So I never really bothered with the Cannon side of things, knowing what it was doing for Beams.
Course, that test was just with 4x DHCs - did not have 4x Turrets in the back of the Chel to see if that might create the "hidden" 135 cap folks are seeing from that angle.
It could be as simple as what yargomesh said (which could also help create that "135" because of the Turrets)...it's not about a hidden cap, it's just the way energy is returned because of the firing cycles.
There was a difference with beams at each power level above 125...with both beam setups.
There wasn't any noticeable difference with just the DHCs above 125 - even though 125 showed the highest, they're all in within a small range of each other when you consider the % Crit.
edit: As an aside to this, consider the AMP Core - +3.3% Damage for each subsystem at 75 or higher (or was it higher than 75? I forget)...with overcapping doing no favors, so to speak - it will be easier to juice up other systems to reach that 75+ in multiple subsystems. Also, when looking at making your weapon choices between perhaps a Beam Array and DHC - thinking about the boosts to damage that arise from overcap buffer, don't forget that DHCs have a 1.74:1 DPV ratio and 1.45:1 DPS ratio compared to the Arrays. That overcap's not providing +45% or more DPS...
I understand what you were getting at, but just for the sake of clarity since several posters have said the same thing:
The Kinetic Cutting Beam does not provide the Omega Weapon Amplifier passive proc.
The passive proc is the 2 piece bonus of the Omega Adapted Tech set, which means you can slot any 2 of the 3 pieces for it: Torpedo, Console or Cutting Beam.
The passive proc has a 2.5% chance when firing (or on hit, the tooltip is unclear) any energy weapon on your ship.
Beams just seem hand over fist better then...maybe 1 dc but then there's boff skills....aux2bat build....God damn, monkey wrenches...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
There are many good threads out there discussing DPS for Escorts and Cruisers, I'd take a look at those for a more holistic view of what's going on...not base any decisions just on drain buffer. Hopefully nothing that I stated was seen as a Beams > Cannons thing - was just looking at the drain stuff...
7/8 beams firing at Z=2(125-75)weapon energy. So Z equals a multiplier of 150% if you always fire at 125 visual
Vs.
4/5 fore dhcs, 1 kcb, 1/2 turrets at some Z=125-(x)(y) A=2(Z-50) energy
(assuming the energy drain on all weapons are equal)
Where X is the drain a weapon does
Where Y is the position of fire
Where Z is the coefficient
Where A is the multiplier
Quick example: I fire my 3rd dhc at -8 energy
Z=125-(X)(Y)
125- (8)(3)
125-24)
Z=101
A=2(101-50)
A=51x2
A=102 bonus
So you get 102% bonus damage for this fired dhc
Can someone post the damage of an equal mark beam array, dual heavy canon and dual beam bank?
Should be pretty easy to see which type does more damage per cycle not including crits
Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm doing for formulas, so if someone could clean that up, I'm sure the community would be appreciative.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
It's going to vary based on several things - how it varies for one person may not be how it varies for another.
While there is a 1.74:1 DPV ratio between DHCs and Beams (with a 1.45:1 DPS ratio) - there's a 0.45:1 DPV ratio (0.75:1 DPS) for Turrets and Beams. There are going to be various weapon abilities involved, there is the way in which all of the damage is actually calculated, etc, etc, etc.
That's why there are so many threads discussing it out there, heh. I believe there are even DPS calculator spreadsheets that folks have thrown together.
Something else to keep in mind...
"4/5 fore dhcs, 1 kcb, 1/2 turrets at 125 -(x^y) energy
(assuming the energy drain on all weapons are equal)"
Not only is the drain on the weapons different, but the firing cycles are different. The DHCs are 2/3 and -12 power, the Turrets are 4/3 and -8 power, and the KCB is 4/5 and -8 power like a turret.
Beyond that, you can't really compare the cycles. You can compare them at a 15s interval, though. 2 or 4/3 and 4/5 meet at 15s.
You'd have 5 cycles from cannons and 3 cycles from beams (including the KCB since it runs 4/5). You couldn't compare 1 cycle to 1 cycle to get a fair value.
In 15s...
10 shots from a DHC.
20 shots from a DC, SC, or Turret.
12 shots from a BA, BB, or the KCB.
Which is where discussions often end up talking about sustained/pressure DPS and spike/burst DPS...
...and beyond that, you're also going to have to look at if you're on autofire or manually firing the weapons - the effect that would have on the actual order and when they fire with how that relates to how they drain power.
interesting thanks, so DHC do not benefit nearly as much from overcap as beams. This could be why all the highest dps PVE builds are now Beam FAW spam using a2b and eptw and other stuff to overcap rather then DHC escorts doing most dps anymore.