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It's time for the Defiant to have an integrated Battle Cloak
newromulan1
Member Posts: 2,229
Yes now that the Romulans are the Friends and allies of the Federation it's time they provided the Defiant class with a fully integrated battle cloak.
It's time starfleet demanded some compensation for all the hard work it's officers and staff have been doing for the Romulan people.
The treaty is null and void - as it was with the old empire and definitely void now that Romulans are now allies.
It's time starfleet demanded some compensation for all the hard work it's officers and staff have been doing for the Romulan people.
The treaty is null and void - as it was with the old empire and definitely void now that Romulans are now allies.
Post edited by newromulan1 on
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While using a semblance of what canon (might) dictate is one thing, ""ballance""" of the game must be maintained.
Romulan battle cloaks come at the cost of nefed general power levels, kdf battle cloaks are limited to BoPs, the most fragile ships in the game. (the vet ship admittingly being out of my expertise on stats, so i cant really comment)
Only if you agree to a nerf. KDF raptors suffer from lower turnrates in general, or borked turn rate axis. They also don't have a 5-tac console option, so you'd best be willing to either suggest a raptor for that or nerf the Fleet Defiant back down to 4 tac consoles.
The Romulans are a special case, as elandarksky stated. You have to compare the Fed ships to KDF counterparts, and the KDF escort counterparts are nerfed slightly to compensate for the integrated cloak. Defiants should suffer the same.
EDIT: Corrected a name, wasn't paying attention.
Actually this whole thread is made for neoakiraii - he knows why.
Agreed. No battle cloak, just built in regular cloak.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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fine, fine, a built in regular cloak would free up one console slot at least.
Jeez...ANOTHER one of those threads.
Ok, that's done now.
I was actually recently thinking about this. I thought of a nice way to let everyone have what they want, without stepping on toes as much, and then maybe we can have this debate dead and finished for good:
Federation cloaks (Gal-X and Defiant-R): Would be called a 'Federation Cloaking Device'. They would gain the ability to cloak under fire, and NOTHING ELSE.
Klingon cloaks: Would be called 'Klingon Cloak'. All raptors and battlecruisers would gain all the benefits from battle cloak, but could still only ever cloak when not in red alert. BoPs would stay the same. Possibly give a bump to th effectiveness of all Klingon cloaks. Not gigantic, but enough to make it worthwhile.
Romulan cloaks: Would remain the same.
T'varo, B'rel, Scimitar (with consoles) cloaks: Stay mostly the same. Possibly for the B'rel, gain a greater amount of stealth bonus to make it a bit more unique or add in some other extra.
Tal Shiar Adapted Destroyer and Battlecruiser: Would gain the ability to cloak under fire, but nothing else.
There, everyone gets what they want without stepping on toes as badly as just giving feds a battle cloak with all the dressings.
But then what would happen to PvP if everyone had a cloak? nothing would happen in PvP at all because everyone would be cloaked waiting on the first fool to decloak so they can alpha strike them. I think wanting battle cloaks on every ship would make for very boring PvP and i dont even do PvP.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
It's be EXACTLY WHAT IT'S LIKE NOW lol. PvP is just Fed-Romulans v Klingons v KDF-Romulans. Everyone has battle cloaks, and it's all stealthy decloaky alpha strikes.
It's not like the cloaks are impenetrable though - you can detect cloaking vessels with some boff abilities.
Kirk's Protege.
My personal opinion, is that cloak/bc/ebc should be skill-based with some combination of player skill and ship skill booster points. Say cloaking requires 100 skill points--you can use 50 points in character skill a +50 cloak device or a couple of purple cloaking consoles, or 99 character points with a booster deflector, or whatever, and there you go. Something similar with battlecloaks and enhanced battlecloaks. If that kind of model were adopted, you could get more cloaking with a much broader variety of ships without changing the ships at all, everything would come from player skill points and consoles, aka balance
What I think would make a lot more sense is to give feds the option to use a basic cloaking device on ANY SHIP. I mean why should it only be used on the defiant & the gal-x? Before these where exceptions to the Treaty of Algeron, but it makes no sense whatsoever any more. The feds already have the technology to cloak ships big and small when not under fire, use it!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You can copy and paste the exact same stats and layout that a bird of prey has over what the defiant has currently and problem solved! No balance issues whatsoever
...sometime words fail me...
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If the turn rate is a turn off (lol) use those nice fleet rcs 12s that will be out in less than 2 months. Use helmsman, use evasive maneuvers, use battlecloak, and use the tachyokinetic console (turn rate buff AND crit chance buff).
Win.
Poor Kumari.
The days of balance are OVER! Look at the Roms, you don't really think they pay for their singularity abilities and battlecloak on everything do you?
At this point they could give a defiant battlecloak without changing any stats and it'd still be inferior to a Mogai.
system Lord Baal is dead
I also want to see all ships properly set up to their canon abilities.
-Federation is at war with the Klingons "BATTLECLOAK!"
-Federation is in a struggle with the Tal Shiar "BATTLECLOAK!"
-Federation is in an alliance wit the Romulans Republic "BATTLECLOAK!"
I'm still waiting for someone to scream "BATTLECLOAK!" at the drop of a hat.:rolleyes:
If the Republic is to be considered the legitimate successor state of the Romulan Star Empire then treaties that were made with the RSE would also be in effect with the RR.
West Germany (and now the reunificated Germany) is considered to be the legitimate successor state of the German Reich...that includes treaties etc.
Russia is considered the legitimate successor of the Soviet Union, that includes the nuclear weapons treaties etc.
Governments rise and fall, but treaties continue after they're gone. And that means Treaty of Algeron.
They should actually remove all the cloaks from Federation Starships...but that's something nobody wants to hear and I'm eagerly waiting for someone to attack me because I've got the "wrong" avatar and the "wrong" opinion on the matter.
Oh, BTW I see an interesting double standard in this thread:
To give the Defiant a battlecloak is good because it supposedly increases balance.
To change the stats on the Defiant to counteweight the battlecloak is not needed because balance is not a factor.
In that case the Defiant doesn't need a battlecloak for balance either because balance is not a factor.
As far as the "warship" argument is concerned...do you honestly think Raptors (the counterpart to Defiants with lower turnrate, less shields and no intergrated battlecloak) and Warbirds are pleasure craft?
I direct you to exhibit A, the rep system, and exhibit B, the Embassy consoles. There's your Romulan technology.;)
Here you go:
-I had pizza for lunch today. I needz BATTLECLOAK!!!
There.
^^^ This guy knows what he's talking about!
Knowing how much I can suddenly eat when a well-done pizza is on the table...don't you mean "BELLYCLOAK!"?:P
In what way, shape, or form is this game balanced?
Fed's want the ability to get away when they are about to get killed like the Rom's and Klinks can. To cloak and run when things get to hot right?
How about a warp core ability that does the Picard manuever. It makes you appear 2 places at once and sends your ship 10k away from your target.
(I know thats not exactly how the picard manuever worked in the show) but it would make all the targets shooting at you to suddenly be attacking your warp shadow and not you. You would be 10k away and can hit EPTE or Evasive or whatever to heal or run. Im surprised that this ability is not in the game for Feds already as it is cannon and from the TNG series. I know we have the Jumper but this is a defensive move. And it leaves a copy of you in its place, not like photonic fleet or as in your attackers will see a flash and thats it. They still have a target lock on your shadow but you are long gone. The shadow lasts for say 3 seconds. How would that work for you?
HMMM...doesn't the Nova refit console pretty much cover most of this?
Took the words right out of my mouth.
A battle cloak might be nice but sure isn't needed. And integrating it would sort of ruin the concept of the Tier-5 console ship vs the fleet console-less ship.
(Disclosure: speaking as a Defiant lover)
Sort of, but it does not trasport you a safe distance from your attacker. It cloaks you and it is obvious when it happens. If this consoles ability was a little steathier in its application than yes it would work well. But as it is now your attacker can see you use it and easily target and kill you as you are cloaking. If you are getting pummeled and want to escape and hit this ability your shields drop as you start to cloak and there is a 2 second delay before your photonic replacement appears. And the entire time your still getting shot and now have no shields. You attacker sees this happening and is not stupid enought to change target to attack your doppelganger. In PVE it works put in PVP it's laughable.
Not really - they can integrate the ability on both the refit and the fleet version - simple coding.
The Excel refits ability - extended transwarp is not a console - but integrated on the refit and the fleet version.
They only made it a console to make KDF players feel better about losing a "unique" ability - but now with the Romulans having cloak, the rep system having cloak and with a few more lock-boxes - every KDF console ported to the Feds - what does it matter any more if the cloak is integrated?
And going by canon - ALL cloaks should be battlecloaks - in the show you see defiant and Klingon battlecruisers cloaking under fire. The first one that comes to mind of the Defiant is when they are escaping DS9 after leaving before the Dominion boards the station - Defiant is under fire from some domion ships and then cloaks.
She is right beside Martok's(my second favorite character) BoP - which cloaks at the same time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkQizwbq7Rs