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The D'deridex needs reworking and rebuffing
kiloace
Member Posts: 488 Arc User
Okay, I will make a long story short. I was really excited to jump into my tier 4 starship, as I am a big fan of this nostalgic TNG Romulan ship.
I must say, out of everything in the entire expansion since its release, this ship is the most disappointing thing I have run into. It has the mobility of a planet, the damage output of a pillow, and the toughness of a china plate...the only thing that it has going for it is the actual look of the ship. It took me 20 minutes to complete a fight with an Elachi warship. Half of the fight I was dealing ~2 DPS, while I was busy trying to haul the ship's fat *** around to actually fire my good weapons, and I still died after destroying it.
Of course, I'm sure you're all thinking "just l2p god its a fed galaxy." No. This is WAY worse than a galaxy. This ship is absolutely horrible. And my complaints, while emotionally driven and subjective, are not totally unwarranted.
I thought this was a minor detail at first, but up until the D'deridex, warbirds seem "tactical-centric" with a splash of classic "science power" in combat. They aren't the toughest, nor the most maneuverable, but they emphasize damage output, hit and run and exotic playstyles. Their boff slots, turn rate and weapon slots cater to escorts. Now all of a sudden, you're expected to fly a giant barge that chucks all that out the airlock? NO.
Furthermore, I know the D'deridex really is a huge, bulky ship, but man, that doesn't mean it needs to be engineering focused!
Cryptic, here is what I suggest you do to change the D'deridex to a usable warbird:
Hull: 31,000 - A midpoint between the strength of the Galaxy and the Vor'cha. A minor compensation in hull strength is needed for a boost to maneuverability.
Turn Rate: 7 - Not a huge change, but at least you can actually move now.
BOffs:
Cmdr. Tac
Lt. Cmdr. Eng
Lt. Sci
Ens. Sci
*This keeps some of the Eng, but it follows the pattern of the other Warbirds: Tac and Sci too.
Consoles:
3 Tac
2 Eng
2 Sci
Inertia: 20 *Matches Galaxy and Vor'cha now.
I think these changes will better adapt the D'deridex to the Warbird pattern and improve taste in it. It might be a little OP in these stats, but tell me what you guys think.
I must say, out of everything in the entire expansion since its release, this ship is the most disappointing thing I have run into. It has the mobility of a planet, the damage output of a pillow, and the toughness of a china plate...the only thing that it has going for it is the actual look of the ship. It took me 20 minutes to complete a fight with an Elachi warship. Half of the fight I was dealing ~2 DPS, while I was busy trying to haul the ship's fat *** around to actually fire my good weapons, and I still died after destroying it.
Of course, I'm sure you're all thinking "just l2p god its a fed galaxy." No. This is WAY worse than a galaxy. This ship is absolutely horrible. And my complaints, while emotionally driven and subjective, are not totally unwarranted.
I thought this was a minor detail at first, but up until the D'deridex, warbirds seem "tactical-centric" with a splash of classic "science power" in combat. They aren't the toughest, nor the most maneuverable, but they emphasize damage output, hit and run and exotic playstyles. Their boff slots, turn rate and weapon slots cater to escorts. Now all of a sudden, you're expected to fly a giant barge that chucks all that out the airlock? NO.
Furthermore, I know the D'deridex really is a huge, bulky ship, but man, that doesn't mean it needs to be engineering focused!
Cryptic, here is what I suggest you do to change the D'deridex to a usable warbird:
Hull: 31,000 - A midpoint between the strength of the Galaxy and the Vor'cha. A minor compensation in hull strength is needed for a boost to maneuverability.
Turn Rate: 7 - Not a huge change, but at least you can actually move now.
BOffs:
Cmdr. Tac
Lt. Cmdr. Eng
Lt. Sci
Ens. Sci
*This keeps some of the Eng, but it follows the pattern of the other Warbirds: Tac and Sci too.
Consoles:
3 Tac
2 Eng
2 Sci
Inertia: 20 *Matches Galaxy and Vor'cha now.
I think these changes will better adapt the D'deridex to the Warbird pattern and improve taste in it. It might be a little OP in these stats, but tell me what you guys think.
Post edited by kiloace on
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Comments
EDIT: Nvm, you are talking about the Commander version.
Now as far as DPS ~2 sounds like a massive exageration. I would also ask if you are using up to date gear, such as weapons apporpriate for that level. Now the Elachi are no pushovers either, they seemed tougher than normal. But in my D'Dex the Captain level one, I mowed through them like a John Deer. I am sorry but you can not be doing it right.
Perhaps wait until you level some more and try the level 50 D'Dex out? If not that, do not count on the D'Dex being useful once you get to level 40, it does get rough seeing as you are offered soooo much better ships for focusing.
Did you try using RCS, Beam Weapons, Tractor Beam to hold your Prey, Cloaking during battle to take advantage of the increased turn rate and speed, Turrets, Increasing Engine power, having Emergency Power to Engines on your Boff tray... Any of those would remove all of your displayed concerns...
Perhaps the ship didn't fail you here.
T'Liss types - TAC oriented
Dhelan types - TAC oriented
Mogai types - TAC oriented
D'Deridex types - varies at tier, but T5 versions are very balanced and capable of many things
Ha'apax types - ENG oriented
Ha'nom types - SCI oriented
Ha'feh types - TAC oriented
Haakona types - Flexible
Yes, what the Romulan fleet needs is another TAC oriented ship. Because 2 ENG heavy capable ships in the entire lineup for the Romulans is obviously too much. Sela forbid that there's more SCI capable Romulan vessels.
Your complaints about the turn rate is absolutely absurd. 20 minutes to complete a fight against an Elachi warship? Seriously? 2 dps? I'm sorry, but the phrase of "Learn 2 play" applies to you here.
There's nothing wrong with even the 2 versions of the D'Deridex at Commander. I've taken that standard Commander D'Deridex and blazed it through to Lv50 with little effort. There are ways of putting offensive punch into even a ENG heavy ship. There are ways to make any variant of the D'Deridex at any tier handle better. But you Escort jockeys refuse to learn and adapt.
Get educated in your D'Deridex Warbirds 101, 102, 103.
If you can't make your cruiser handle better and hit harder... Learn 2 play.
The real problem that seems to be causing these threads is the ship progression. T1 Escort-T2 Escort-T3 Escort-T4 Cruiser?! The gameplay is widely different from T3 to T4 ships. But honestly if you hate flying a cruiser at T4 fly your ally T4 escort/sci ship till T5 then fly Escort/cruiser/sci ship as you like.
These threads and the "What?! I cant fly a T5 ally ship?! BS!" threads need to die in fire while eating a bowl of dicks.
btw you can rock DHC/DBB on the fleet D'D mine has 20+ degrees per sec turn outside of cloak, with cloak its in the 50 range.
You get a huge boost to turn rate while cloaked. You can use your massive hull and powers to engage the battle cloak( even under fire) and turn that ship on a dime. I actually fly the Haakona this way too.
I was able to one and maybe 2 pass everything to death with this ship and just random level weapons that I picked up while leveling up.
I think with some concentrated effort you could get some real nice weapons on that bird at that level. I know everyone I spoke too that went with a beam boat hated it until they tried my 3x DHC and turrets with whatever torp you prefer. I used the Bio one from one of the Rom missions.
If you can't afford nice weapons or you don't want to waste credits on weapons for a t-4 ship, go replay the earlier Rom mission and they will give you your current level weapons as rewards. I forget the name but it is the mission where you have to disable and search the 3 freighters.
That ship works really well if played right. It doesn't need a rework, but it does have a steeper learning curve than any other Warbird before it. Now that i think of it an couple extra tac console slots couldn't hurt Cryptic.;)
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I have a better idea.
Learn 2 play!
I always thought it doesn't matter where to put the weapons in the slots?
The Big D is not an escort. Your movements are not a reaction to your enemy you are anticipating their next move. You can fit the ship with either beams OR a strong cannon setup. Both work and both provide a different experience.
The issue really is a L2P situation. I do not mean that as a fork in the eye comment but rather a need for you to learn how to use this ship effectively. I have spent my entire time in this game (since pre-launch) flying cruisers. My primary cruisers have been the Galaxy and Galaxy-X. These ships have been complained about for a long time because of their turn rates but through practice you start to get the feel for them. Since I have that previous experience for 3 years, the Big D is just a juiced up version of what I already fly. The fact it has a battle cloak which gives me a dmg bonus AND a huge turn rate boost is just icing on the cake.
This really is a great ship and once I hit VA I bought the retrofit without a second thought. There are many ways to augment your turn rate to enhance your ship. Everyone will recommend RCS consoles but imo there are other methods available. The first is sloting an emergency power to engines 1. Use it within your shields rotation OR when you need a quick turning boost and you WILL keep your targets on point everytime. If you pair this with evasive manuvers, then you will only have a 15 second downtime between abilities. This gets LOWER if you also have the helmsmen trait. The last way is to use your battle cloak. If you pop "brace for impact" and or some hull resistance abilites using your BC for a dmg and turn rate booster should be a non-issue.
The key is you do not need turning all the time. You're not an escort. What you do need is turning in bursts to realign and blast away. This is a great ship at all tiers but you have to learn the ship.
Perhaps not. I was pretty upset and haven't flown it for awhile because of it. I guess I'll try again today. Hopefully I can figure it out. If not, I'm seriously tempted to fly my Mogai until Admiral.
Yes, but not for that reason. If every other ship in the Romulan lineup is Tactical with a side of science, the LAST thing you should do is throw an Engineeering curveball at people at Commander after all this time, furthermore, with no alternative.
At least if I were playing Fed, they'd give me the option to fly a more mobile ship like a sci vessel or escort, with Rommie, you only get 1 choice, and its an absurd shift to what I've been flying for the last 30 some levels. :mad:
Because now I have to go by a buttload of RCS consoles, Beam arrays and Eng boffs, that's why!
EXACTLY.
It costs dil though, which brings up another point. Why shouldn't we get the option to choose an ally ship as a new ship? Why do we only get free warbirds?
HOW????
3 Dual heavy cannons, a torpedo, an 4 rear turrets.
It works perfectly well for PVE. Its not an escort, but its a battlecruiser that can dish it out and take the return fire.
I use EPTW1, Reverse shield pol 1, EPTS3, Aux to Structural integrity 3, Grav well 1, Transfer Shield Stregth 2 , hazard emitters 1, polarize hull 1, two tactical team, Rapid fire and Scatter volley.
May replace polarized hull for High Yield when I get the Romulan hyper plasma torpedo.
I do use the two set console one, but I may replace the Dridtau one with a Field generator.
Load the special consoles from the DD Retro and the Dridthau. +2 turn when those are on the same ship and they both have cool, useful powers.
Fly the Fleet DD instead of the Retro (5.5 base turn vs. 5.0, every little bit helps).
Load an impulse engine with a turnx2 or x3 modifier.
Get the Helmsman special trait. +10% turn and 10sec reduction on evasive manuvers cooldown.
Load 2-3 purple MkXII RCS consoles.
Put Aux2Dampers on your eng boff.
Max out Starship Impulse Thrusters skill on your captain.
Stir.
I would wait a bit before spending EC for mk xii rcs consoles, the fleet dilithium mine has rcs consoles...just don't know the stats.
This, combined with the turn bonus while cloaked will have The Big D spinning like a top while cloaked and maneuverable enough out of cloak to keep DHCs on target for all but the most manueverable foes.
This ship is super flexable. Or you can make it an out of cloak striker of death with BO's CRF and THY/Spread. With just your engine and points into thrusters with around 50 engine power you should be atleast to 10 degrees per sec which is better then the galaxy with 1 rcs console before the update. With a better boff/console layout then the galaxy its contemporary. Can mount DHC and has a battle cloak.
The D'D has it good vs the galaxy and most other cruisers. Amazes me how people miss this stuff and focus on 5 turnrate, this isnt 5 turnrate before LOR its 5 turnrate AFTER LOR... huge differance in the long run.
I cannot stress enough how powerful battle cloak is on a cruiser.
I've been running a fleet D'Deridex for a while now, and I routinely take top 3 in Crystaline Entity with it, and I can pretty much run Elite STF's with my eyes shut. You have a ship that only rarely loses dual cannon lock in any meaningful spot that can run EPtS III, Energy Siphon II, and Directed Energy Modulation II.
The only people who can't make it turn are bad players that set up their consoles and skills terribly.
The ship is a monster. I can't even begin to think of what the case is that there's a better tier V cruiser than Fleet D'Deridex at the moment. I mean I'm running an Odyssey bundle on my FED character with pimped out Borg gear and head to head it would be a joke. D'Deridex would win against An Odyssey or Bortas 100% of the time because it's not even theoretically possible to bring either of those equal on turn, and only one of those two can even consider running dual heavy cannons.
Easily my favourite cruiser in the game. By miles and miles.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
That D'deridex is so slow in turning, I bet almost any other starship can run rings around it. Infact when I combat one of those, I always approach it from the rear, de-cloak and blast away at it's rear end, where its return fire is limited at best.
So yeah I agree that the D'deridex needs some work, especially in terms of rate of turn. And maybe some other areas as well.
USS Crimson Sunrise / USS Midian Breach
Jesus does anyone read beyond the OP in threads...
I truly appreciate all of you who say "do this....do that" and how to help me solve my woes with this ship, but things would be different if
- You actually had the choice to fly a cruiser-type warbird earlier in the game, instead of expecting to go all the way through the tiers flying TAC/SCI ships.
- The suggested play strategies were something other than stacking up RCS and skills to improve turn rate.
If I'm gonna have to fill in holes myself for the D'deridex's poor maneuverability, why not just improve the turn rate? Not asking much, maybe to 6 (like the galaxy, which wasn't even as bad) or 7.5 or something.
Borg torp vs cloak. Even with brace for impact, the torp will win. Everytime.
And in other pve content, having to wait to the torps to fly away before turning, or take a big hit on the hull is bad.
People don't want an escort DD, they want a cruiser DD. Currently it's a carrier without pets. No matter what you say, cloak or not, it's simple as that, a carrier without pets.
I will disagree its not a carrier without pets
It is a giant green bathtub thats bolted to the floor that just happens to have a battle cloak
Rubba dub dub 3 roms in a tub
i'm no expert on pvp but could improvements to cruiser turn rates in general without the need of consoles help balance the game? I like to think it could go some way to help. it would also make some ships seem more viable again.
The reality of the game is that after the T'Liss, you have to fly the class of ship you're given... if you want to purely fly Romulan ships.
You have the Connie and the Cheyenne Fed-side, and KDF side there's the K'tanco and the K't'inga. Firstly, the K't'inga can be skinned out as a full on D7, which we've seen Rommies in. Secondly, set up right it's got the most firepower (pound for pound) of any cruiser in the game. It is *THE* battle cruiser (which makes the fleet version's boff layout that much more baffling...). It's tough like a cruiser, but unlike any of the others, it'll consistently pack more punch than the escorts it flies alongside/against. In PVE, it can be flown right up until endgame without trouble.
The math runs thusly: If percentage of weapons or consoles were scaled up to be equivalent to endgame quantities you'd have 5.333 forward weapons, 2.666 aft weapons and 4 tactical consoles. You can just melt anything with 4DHCs and a pair of turrets at the back.
But fan-boi exultation of the K't'inga aside, there's a pretty compelling reason to fly it as a Romulan if you need to get into the swing of cruisers, and they have used them before.
BC works great in elite STF. The big thing about high yield torps is that they dissipate after a while. My ship is a mix of speed and shield tanking with hull resistance buffs. My ability to not get hit by a high yield torp is VERY good.
Every ship has limitations and this ship is no different. The key is to recognize your strengths and your ability to limit your weaknesses.
The Big D in strength is:
1) Battle Cloak: Using this ability gives a large boost to dmg and turn rate. If you use it wrong then you die but if you use it RIGHT then it makes you almost immortal.
2) The ability to use DHC's AND access to all 3 classes Lt Com slots. This gives this ship some amazing versatility. If you pair it effectively with singularity powers and your battle cloak you can break the mold on effective cruiser layouts. I am still in the process of mastering mine.
It's weaknesses to mitigate is turn rate. For the price of 1 trait (helmsman) and 1 ensign BOFF power (EPTE1) you effectively have a massive turn rate bonus with a 10 second down time between that ONE BOFF power and evasive. In an emergency you can use them both together to escape ANYONE. This does not even take into account if you are running APO1 as a Lt Com tac BOFF power.
I got to say that 1 trait and 1 ensign engi power are a SMALL price to pay for such high bonuses. I also have the 2 piece on my ship which if we remove the +2 turn is super valuable for the +10 engines, invuln ability and a MOBILE gravity well.
The tools are there to make the D'deridex perform as a very great cruiser. You simply have to want to fly a cruiser. If you don't (at commander) then there are plenty of non-romulan C-store options to accommodate you..OR you can simply use your Mogai from sub-commander, which is still excellent.