You know I have not seen a single one of these in PvP - I wonder If people would just laugh - or target it for fun - or both.
I have flown my D'Deridex in PvP multiple times, both in Queues and Ker'rat. Now as far as power is concerned, it can not out Pew an Escort. But it can melt a lot of escorts by outlasting them in combat.
Sorry you missed mine. But it had a K/D of around 5 Kills/ 1 Death.
- The suggested play strategies were something other than stacking up RCS and skills to improve turn rate.
If I'm gonna have to fill in holes myself for the D'deridex's poor maneuverability, why not just improve the turn rate? Not asking much, maybe to 6 (like the galaxy, which wasn't even as bad) or 7.5 or something.
So, you are still one of those guys that absolutely REFUSES to do anything to improve the ship? Even after people provided points in making it better?
You'd rather Cryptic patch in Turn Rate 15 onto the ship to make up for your lackluster knowledge of the game and laziness to learn more of the game and adapt?
The fact you didn't even try to really look at the adjustments is exemplified by your idea that it's all taken cared of by RCS Consoles and putting points into Starship Impulse Engines. If you bothered to read some of the links provided, there's ample ways of going about it. But hey, you're just lazy.
I really want to see people turn their DD in an eSTF using a battlecloak.
Borg torp vs cloak. Even with brace for impact, the torp will win. Everytime.
And in other pve content, having to wait to the torps to fly away before turning, or take a big hit on the hull is bad.
People don't want an escort DD, they want a cruiser DD. Currently it's a carrier without pets. No matter what you say, cloak or not, it's simple as that, a carrier without pets.
Borg Torps can one shot you anyways. With or without shields. 93k crits don't give a damn.
Well, I haven't really had a chance to PLAY the ship lately, but I just squeezed in a couple hours yesterday. I bought some consoles and better engines off the exchange and plugged them in, and got some more arc-appropriate weapons. Its quite a bit better, I still think it could use a turn rate of 6 or 7 though - the smallest buff.
So, you are still one of those guys that absolutely REFUSES to do anything to improve the ship? Even after people provided points in making it better?
Umm, no, I did what they said. My point was that if everyone's gonna do that, why force them to?
I don't see a reason to give them the option to fly with a turn rate of 5, if they're all gonna buff it themselves anyway.
You'd rather Cryptic patch in Turn Rate 15 onto the ship to make up for your lackluster knowledge of the game and laziness to learn more of the game and adapt?
Jesus, did you even read my posts?
15 would be waaaaaaaaaay too much, but 6 or 7 woulb be appropriate so I don't have to chock 50 billion RCS consoles into the ship to make it bearable to turn. Especially if that's all anyone is going to do.
I have flown my D'Deridex in PvP multiple times, both in Queues and Ker'rat. Now as far as power is concerned, it can not out Pew an Escort. But it can melt a lot of escorts by outlasting them in combat.
Sorry you missed mine. But it had a K/D of around 5 Kills/ 1 Death.
I also fly a D'deridex in Kerrat like Veg.
I fly it exclusively. for power, I have pewed many escorts faster than they could pew me....except the JHAS
Well, I haven't really had a chance to PLAY the ship lately, but I just squeezed in a couple hours yesterday. I bought some consoles and better engines off the exchange and plugged them in, and got some more arc-appropriate weapons. Its quite a bit better, I still think it could use a turn rate of 6 or 7 though - the smallest buff.
Umm, no, I did what they said. My point was that if everyone's gonna do that, why force them to?
I don't see a reason to give them the option to fly with a turn rate of 5, if they're all gonna buff it themselves anyway.
Jesus, did you even read my posts?
15 would be waaaaaaaaaay too much, but 6 or 7 woulb be appropriate so I don't have to chock 50 billion RCS consoles into the ship to make it bearable to turn. Especially if that's all anyone is going to do.
So let me get this straight? You think they should buff the turn rate because you're just gonna use a RCS anyways?
So let me ask you this? Do you use a stock ship always? Because those fancy Damage consoles only *buff* your ship. So that means you don't use them right? Maybe the ships should do more damage with stock weapons right?
You don't use armor or shield consoles right? Ship should have more resists built in right?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
So let me get this straight? You think they should buff the turn rate because you're just gonna use a RCS anyways?
So let me ask you this? Do you use a stock ship always? Because those fancy Damage consoles only *buff* your ship. So that means you don't use them right? Maybe the ships should do more damage with stock weapons right?
You don't use armor or shield consoles right? Ship should have more resists built in right?
The point of consoles are to allow you to fly your ship in a different way, with a different focus, than someone else. I may choose armor over EPS Flow regulators because I'd rather tank heavy amounts of damage than have quick switches in power levels. My science skills focus more on holds and disables than drains.
Everyone seems to be able to agree that the D'deridex has a horrid turn rate. They do say the ship is still flyable through turn buffs, but nobody here has said "the D'deridex is fine as mobile as a planet. I don't modify its turn rate at all."
Which means that EVERYONE HERE is using turn skills, engines with extra turn, rcs consoles, doffs, etc. If everyone makes a point of improving the turn rate with ingame items before flying the bloody ship, doesn't it make sense that you should just buff the ship?
I am sorry that people miss out on what the D'Deridex can really do. Dual Heavy Cannons work great on it.
You get a huge boost to turn rate while cloaked. You can use your massive hull and powers to engage the battle cloak( even under fire) and turn that ship on a dime. I actually fly the Haakona this way too.
I was able to one and maybe 2 pass everything to death with this ship and just random level weapons that I picked up while leveling up.
I think with some concentrated effort you could get some real nice weapons on that bird at that level. I know everyone I spoke too that went with a beam boat hated it until they tried my 3x DHC and turrets with whatever torp you prefer. I used the Bio one from one of the Rom missions.
If you can't afford nice weapons or you don't want to waste credits on weapons for a t-4 ship, go replay the earlier Rom mission and they will give you your current level weapons as rewards. I forget the name but it is the mission where you have to disable and search the 3 freighters.
That ship works really well if played right. It doesn't need a rework, but it does have a steeper learning curve than any other Warbird before it. Now that i think of it an couple extra tac console slots couldn't hurt Cryptic.;)
I agree, I only use DHC on it, even the captain one. It made leveling really easy for me, I could solo the last Elachi mission before it got nerfed without dying.
Last alt I levelled used the DD. I think I had one RCS console on it. Loaded with beams and torp fore/aft, worked like every other fed cruiser basically. Worked fine.
It should still be bumped up to T5 and given another console and weapon slot. Its supposed to be a battleship and the 4/3 loadout with 7 consoles doesnt really serve the purpose.
And the main problem with it continues to be that people resent having it forced on them.
The point of consoles are to allow you to fly your ship in a different way, with a different focus, than someone else. I may choose armor over EPS Flow regulators because I'd rather tank heavy amounts of damage than have quick switches in power levels. My science skills focus more on holds and disables than drains.
Everyone seems to be able to agree that the D'deridex has a horrid turn rate. They do say the ship is still flyable through turn buffs, but nobody here has said "the D'deridex is fine as mobile as a planet. I don't modify its turn rate at all."
Which means that EVERYONE HERE is using turn skills, engines with extra turn, rcs consoles, doffs, etc. If everyone makes a point of improving the turn rate with ingame items before flying the bloody ship, doesn't it make sense that you should just buff the ship?
I suppose every ship in the game should have a turn rate of 15 or higher so you can pew pew without having to put much work into it?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I agree, I only use DHC on it, even the captain one. It made leveling really easy for me, I could solo the last Elachi mission before it got nerfed without dying.
They nerfed Devil's Choice? That was really awesome. And I did it in my D'D too. Kiting, killing, battle cloaking, repeating, guerrilla'd the whole fleet before taking out the lead ship. One of the best missions... nerfed.
Regarding why most people bump up the turn rate, it's just more fun to fly that way. But bear this in mind, the option exists to make it very tough as opposed to mobile. You thus have the scope to make the ship how you want it really, which to an extent makes up for the lack of cruisers on the Rom faction. More than makes up for it, since it's such a cool ship.
yes last patch or one before that. A shame because I felt they gave you the D'D just tto be able to handle those harder missions and it works when built right.
hey just to tell you cannons on a cruiser ussually doesnt work try some beams with fire at will then the turn rate doesnt matter that much and if you care so much about turn rate then put a rcs on it
See that link up there, yeah that's the first or one of the first threads about the D'd that was started right after they added the Romulan Flotilla section to the threads. It basically mirrors one that was in the tribble section as well.
I was the one that started that thread, and much like you I was complaining about the turn rate, blah blah, blah. And just like you're thread there were plenty of village idiots too lazy to suggest anything other than "well just cloak to turn" or "load it with RCS consoles" then finally they saw something shiny and disappeared and the intelligent conversations started.
It didn't take long for several of us to come up with a wide variety of ways to make the D'deridex a very powerful ship with a good consistant turn rate without relying on typical solutions.
My turn rates are listed in the first post of my thread along with all the different solutions I used and other solutions are throughout the thread. I'll be the first to admit I'm not entirely sure how I did it, but the other day I hit the perfect combination of things and managed a perfect 180 in my D'deridex.
Just to give an example my constant full power (not full impulse) turn rate is 14.7 with only 1 RCS console, and that is not including using any abilities or anything just flat out. There are even a couple of builds with an even higher rate.
The D'd is a new breed, requiring new tactics, builds, and experience and we've all had to learn new things with it so don't count it out just yet.
I think the problem is most players who traditionally played escorts before LOR wanted to fly the iconic DD but hate that it isn't an escort.
I can run full DHCs and manage the turn rate. 2 RCS (Dil Vendor ones), 2-set DD consoles and helmsman trait (hard to get I know). Also running AtID and EPtE can help. All of these give my DD a pretty great turn rate. Also the Molecular Phase Inverter Console (D'ridthau) helps with turning and gives a nice damage resistance and you can deactivate it early to fire your weaps again. In addition the new engineering console from the Fleet Dlithium Mine have a pretty awesome turn rate boost.
Given all of this I can't see how the DD has a turn problem. All it takes is smart playing and builds. If you want a more traditional escort fly a Dhelan, Mogai, T'Varo or get the new Risa event ship or buy the bug ship.
More like a sucker punch ... agree with sentiment though.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They nerfed Devil's Choice? That was really awesome. And I did it in my D'D too. Kiting, killing, battle cloaking, repeating, guerrilla'd the whole fleet before taking out the lead ship. One of the best missions... nerfed.
Yes. Due to the fact you couldn't put your ship on autofire and go watch TV while it finished the mission for you, Devil's Choice was deemed as "too hard" by the people that need everything spoonfed to them.
If not, I'm seriously tempted to fly my Mogai until Admiral.
You know, the last two characters I got to Vice Admiral, did the T4 levels almost exclusively through DOFF missions. I have a character that chose the T4 Intrepid, and never once fired its weapons at an enemy.
The way DOFFing works, you can skip entire tiers of content if you want. That might be a decent option here for you if you don't like that ship.
I was pretty much okey with the D'deridex's turnrate, until I saw the Scimitar footage. The ship is twice the size of a D'deridex yet turns considerably faster...really?
Other than the too low turnrate, the ship is quite okey. The bridge officer layout is excellent, as is the potential for a powerful alpha strike. However the ship feels significantly more fragile than my Federation starcruiser for some reason.
Learn to use the ship, or don't use it at all. I flown all kinds of cruisers to battle cruisers. Turn rates never was an issue to me. Even the Galaxy some hate due to turn rates. I didn't have a problem with it leveling up. When I used it. I plan on getting the Galaxy R later.
As for the D-Bird the Romulans need a good cruiser to use. There is like 2+ other ships to use for your escorting needs. I plan on getting the D-Bird for my cruiser needs, and a Mogi for my tactical needs. So that way my Romulan can handle both types of jobs with the ship choices. This will be my 1st character to do this. Where before I was either escort or cruiser only.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Learn to use the ship, or don't use it at all. I flown all kinds of cruisers to battle cruisers. Turn rates never was an issue to me.
well, it might be true for a cruiser. but d'dex isn't one. in case you don't know its a warbird.
its NOT a beamboat and require a LOT to get him nimble enough to do the job.
this topic always brings out the stupidest. theres a big difference between a carrier with no hangers and an escort, somewhere in the middle there is battle cruisers. cruisers with turn rates between 9 and 11, with lots of sliding around, and the ability to use DHCs. the d'deridex is all that, minus the workable turn rate. the bortas is in the same boat.
with how turn consoles work, a % boost based on the base turn rate, if a base turn rate is too low, the ship cant be saved, is non viable. a base of 5 is deep in that territory. oh sure you can DHC it up just fine in pve, anything can. but wile i can use my DHC and RCS consoled up kdf cruisers to great effect, i cannot do near the same in a d'deridex. i want it to be a real battle cruiser, not a hanger less carrier. this is very different then the crazy conclusion so many come to that people want it to have a 15 or better turn rate. no, 9 to 11 is just fine thank you.
cruisers with turn rates between 9 and 11, with lots of sliding around, and the ability to use DHCs.
There's a cruiser with an 11 turn rate?
EDIT: Oh, you're talking about KDF ships. Yeah. Cause that's really what the devs are going to tweak the Romulan ships into being. I see that happening. Uh huh.
EDIT: Oh, you're talking about KDF ships. Yeah. Cause that's really what the devs are going to tweak the Romulan ships into being. I see that happening. Uh huh.
its only called a warbird battlecruiser. and like i said it is just like a klingon battlecruiser, only its turn rate is half as good. what a bizarre thing for you to say, do you have some kind of irrational hatred of kdf ships? they sure as hell have a LOT more in common with warbirds then federation ships do
i would like to see why it is you lot think dds should do nothing but spam dual heavy cannons?
by just playing pve, you would never know why.
every energy weapon thats not DHCs deal damage so gradually that they deal basically no effective damage, no mater how much they bloat the scoreboard. against a player they are countered by just manual distribution so you would have to shoot through all 4 shield facings before you would ever see hull. that will never happen though, because who your shooting at has 10 different ways to undo your damage.
DHCs on the other hand take out a shield facing in a single fireing cycle, allowing immediat hull damage, and opening holes for aditinal spike frrom BO or torps. other energy weapons cant make holes like that, you can never use quants/photons without DHCs for that reason. without the DHC front loaded damage delivery, a ship is not an effective damage dealer. thats why the turn rate is such an issue. npcs dont react to your damage and distribute their shields, use TT, cycle heals, have rep, equipment, and console heal procs go off, none of that
thats why if you just pve, you dont get why this is an issue.
Comments
I have flown my D'Deridex in PvP multiple times, both in Queues and Ker'rat. Now as far as power is concerned, it can not out Pew an Escort. But it can melt a lot of escorts by outlasting them in combat.
Sorry you missed mine. But it had a K/D of around 5 Kills/ 1 Death.
So, you are still one of those guys that absolutely REFUSES to do anything to improve the ship? Even after people provided points in making it better?
You'd rather Cryptic patch in Turn Rate 15 onto the ship to make up for your lackluster knowledge of the game and laziness to learn more of the game and adapt?
The fact you didn't even try to really look at the adjustments is exemplified by your idea that it's all taken cared of by RCS Consoles and putting points into Starship Impulse Engines. If you bothered to read some of the links provided, there's ample ways of going about it. But hey, you're just lazy.
Jesus, the laziness of people...
Borg Torps can one shot you anyways. With or without shields. 93k crits don't give a damn.
Umm, no, I did what they said. My point was that if everyone's gonna do that, why force them to?
I don't see a reason to give them the option to fly with a turn rate of 5, if they're all gonna buff it themselves anyway.
Jesus, did you even read my posts?
15 would be waaaaaaaaaay too much, but 6 or 7 woulb be appropriate so I don't have to chock 50 billion RCS consoles into the ship to make it bearable to turn. Especially if that's all anyone is going to do.
I also fly a D'deridex in Kerrat like Veg.
I fly it exclusively. for power, I have pewed many escorts faster than they could pew me....except the JHAS
So let me get this straight? You think they should buff the turn rate because you're just gonna use a RCS anyways?
So let me ask you this? Do you use a stock ship always? Because those fancy Damage consoles only *buff* your ship. So that means you don't use them right? Maybe the ships should do more damage with stock weapons right?
You don't use armor or shield consoles right? Ship should have more resists built in right?
The only thing that seems to be borked is the interface between the keyboard and chair.
Cryptic, please leave the ship as designed and just modify the programming between the keyboard and chair?
The point of consoles are to allow you to fly your ship in a different way, with a different focus, than someone else. I may choose armor over EPS Flow regulators because I'd rather tank heavy amounts of damage than have quick switches in power levels. My science skills focus more on holds and disables than drains.
Everyone seems to be able to agree that the D'deridex has a horrid turn rate. They do say the ship is still flyable through turn buffs, but nobody here has said "the D'deridex is fine as mobile as a planet. I don't modify its turn rate at all."
Which means that EVERYONE HERE is using turn skills, engines with extra turn, rcs consoles, doffs, etc. If everyone makes a point of improving the turn rate with ingame items before flying the bloody ship, doesn't it make sense that you should just buff the ship?
I agree, I only use DHC on it, even the captain one. It made leveling really easy for me, I could solo the last Elachi mission before it got nerfed without dying.
It should still be bumped up to T5 and given another console and weapon slot. Its supposed to be a battleship and the 4/3 loadout with 7 consoles doesnt really serve the purpose.
And the main problem with it continues to be that people resent having it forced on them.
I'm still holding out for the Ultimate Dreadnought!
With 50k base hull and 1.5 shield mod with CMD TAC / LTC TAC / LT TAC / LT TAC / ENS TAC
And 10 TAC CONSOLES
5/5 Weapons
With a special console set that adds:
Total Invincibility for 30s
Permanent +500 weapon drain resistance
"RSP" Console that heals shields on 2.5% proc for 200% of the damage dealt.
Oh, wait the last console exists.
I suppose every ship in the game should have a turn rate of 15 or higher so you can pew pew without having to put much work into it?
They nerfed Devil's Choice? That was really awesome. And I did it in my D'D too. Kiting, killing, battle cloaking, repeating, guerrilla'd the whole fleet before taking out the lead ship. One of the best missions... nerfed.
Regarding why most people bump up the turn rate, it's just more fun to fly that way. But bear this in mind, the option exists to make it very tough as opposed to mobile. You thus have the scope to make the ship how you want it really, which to an extent makes up for the lack of cruisers on the Rom faction. More than makes up for it, since it's such a cool ship.
yes last patch or one before that. A shame because I felt they gave you the D'D just tto be able to handle those harder missions and it works when built right.
I see what your jab was directed at
See that link up there, yeah that's the first or one of the first threads about the D'd that was started right after they added the Romulan Flotilla section to the threads. It basically mirrors one that was in the tribble section as well.
I was the one that started that thread, and much like you I was complaining about the turn rate, blah blah, blah. And just like you're thread there were plenty of village idiots too lazy to suggest anything other than "well just cloak to turn" or "load it with RCS consoles" then finally they saw something shiny and disappeared and the intelligent conversations started.
It didn't take long for several of us to come up with a wide variety of ways to make the D'deridex a very powerful ship with a good consistant turn rate without relying on typical solutions.
My turn rates are listed in the first post of my thread along with all the different solutions I used and other solutions are throughout the thread. I'll be the first to admit I'm not entirely sure how I did it, but the other day I hit the perfect combination of things and managed a perfect 180 in my D'deridex.
Just to give an example my constant full power (not full impulse) turn rate is 14.7 with only 1 RCS console, and that is not including using any abilities or anything just flat out. There are even a couple of builds with an even higher rate.
The D'd is a new breed, requiring new tactics, builds, and experience and we've all had to learn new things with it so don't count it out just yet.
I can run full DHCs and manage the turn rate. 2 RCS (Dil Vendor ones), 2-set DD consoles and helmsman trait (hard to get I know). Also running AtID and EPtE can help. All of these give my DD a pretty great turn rate. Also the Molecular Phase Inverter Console (D'ridthau) helps with turning and gives a nice damage resistance and you can deactivate it early to fire your weaps again. In addition the new engineering console from the Fleet Dlithium Mine have a pretty awesome turn rate boost.
Given all of this I can't see how the DD has a turn problem. All it takes is smart playing and builds. If you want a more traditional escort fly a Dhelan, Mogai, T'Varo or get the new Risa event ship or buy the bug ship.
More like a sucker punch ... agree with sentiment though.
- Judge Aaron Satie
Yes. Due to the fact you couldn't put your ship on autofire and go watch TV while it finished the mission for you, Devil's Choice was deemed as "too hard" by the people that need everything spoonfed to them.
You know, the last two characters I got to Vice Admiral, did the T4 levels almost exclusively through DOFF missions. I have a character that chose the T4 Intrepid, and never once fired its weapons at an enemy.
The way DOFFing works, you can skip entire tiers of content if you want. That might be a decent option here for you if you don't like that ship.
Other than the too low turnrate, the ship is quite okey. The bridge officer layout is excellent, as is the potential for a powerful alpha strike. However the ship feels significantly more fragile than my Federation starcruiser for some reason.
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
As for the D-Bird the Romulans need a good cruiser to use. There is like 2+ other ships to use for your escorting needs. I plan on getting the D-Bird for my cruiser needs, and a Mogi for my tactical needs. So that way my Romulan can handle both types of jobs with the ship choices. This will be my 1st character to do this. Where before I was either escort or cruiser only.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
its NOT a beamboat and require a LOT to get him nimble enough to do the job.
with how turn consoles work, a % boost based on the base turn rate, if a base turn rate is too low, the ship cant be saved, is non viable. a base of 5 is deep in that territory. oh sure you can DHC it up just fine in pve, anything can. but wile i can use my DHC and RCS consoled up kdf cruisers to great effect, i cannot do near the same in a d'deridex. i want it to be a real battle cruiser, not a hanger less carrier. this is very different then the crazy conclusion so many come to that people want it to have a 15 or better turn rate. no, 9 to 11 is just fine thank you.
There's a cruiser with an 11 turn rate?
EDIT: Oh, you're talking about KDF ships. Yeah. Cause that's really what the devs are going to tweak the Romulan ships into being. I see that happening. Uh huh.
its only called a warbird battlecruiser. and like i said it is just like a klingon battlecruiser, only its turn rate is half as good. what a bizarre thing for you to say, do you have some kind of irrational hatred of kdf ships? they sure as hell have a LOT more in common with warbirds then federation ships do
by just playing pve, you would never know why.
every energy weapon thats not DHCs deal damage so gradually that they deal basically no effective damage, no mater how much they bloat the scoreboard. against a player they are countered by just manual distribution so you would have to shoot through all 4 shield facings before you would ever see hull. that will never happen though, because who your shooting at has 10 different ways to undo your damage.
DHCs on the other hand take out a shield facing in a single fireing cycle, allowing immediat hull damage, and opening holes for aditinal spike frrom BO or torps. other energy weapons cant make holes like that, you can never use quants/photons without DHCs for that reason. without the DHC front loaded damage delivery, a ship is not an effective damage dealer. thats why the turn rate is such an issue. npcs dont react to your damage and distribute their shields, use TT, cycle heals, have rep, equipment, and console heal procs go off, none of that
thats why if you just pve, you dont get why this is an issue.