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Fleet T'varo or Fleet Dhelan?

djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
edited July 2013 in Romulan Discussion
OK fellow Romulan captains,
I'm going to have my first Romulan (Tactical) leveled to 50 pretty soon, and I plan on buying a C-Store "escort-ish" ship. I'll then upgrade to the fleet version of whichever one I get. For the base C-store model, here's my main goals, in order of importance:

1. Must be a C-store ship (both are) so it will be account wide for future characters.
2. Effective in PVE (which won't be difficult) AND PVP play.
3. Prefer the ship to be relatively versatile and easily usable for all three classes.
4. Knowing I also play PVP, I want the "special" console to be USEFUL for PVP.

I'll be most likely using Fleet advanced or Romulan plasma dual heavy cannons, with either the Omega or Romulan Hyper-plasma torpedo.

My initial thoughts (tell me if I'm on the right track):

T'varo looks like a great, well-rounded ship. Four tac consoles, room for three threat scaling science consoles, and Lt commander universal Boff slot. This point, as well as the balanced console layout, makes it seem the most versatile and usable for all classes. Should do a lot of damage, and has the potential to be fairly tanky, or have more science abilities. However, my instincts tell me the special console (the super plasma torpedo) will have little or no usefulness in PVP. (Intelligent enemies will simply shoot it down.)

Dhelan will be very powerful as far as raw damage power. Fleet version has 5 Tac consoles, and with the option to use three threat scaling science consoles, it could be made into an equivalent "6 tac console" ship and do a LOT of plasma damage. The Boff layout is slightly less versatile, but could still be made to work for Engineering or Science classes. Could potentially do insane plasma damage, and could still have a workable amount of tankiness or science. The weapon killing/bomb special console (at least on paper) looks like it will be much MORE USEFUL for a PVP or team environment.

So please give me your thoughts, especially if you've used these ships. How effective and useful are the special consoles? Which one would you recommend? Do you love or hate either of these and why? Thanks!
C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
-Captain James T. Kirk
Post edited by djf021 on
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Comments

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,891 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    djf021 wrote: »
    OK fellow Romulan captains,
    I'm going to have my first Romulan (Tactical) leveled to 50 pretty soon, and I plan on buying a C-Store "escort-ish" ship. I'll then upgrade to the fleet version of whichever one I get. For the base C-store model, here's my main goals, in order of importance:

    1. Must be a C-store ship (both are) so it will be account wide for future characters.
    2. Effective in PVE (which won't be difficult) AND PVP play.
    3. Prefer the ship to be relatively versatile and easily usable for all three classes.
    4. Knowing I also play PVP, I want the "special" console to be USEFUL for PVP.

    My initial thoughts (tell me if I'm on the right track):

    T'varo looks like a great, well-rounded ship. Four tac consoles, room for three threat scaling science consoles, and Lt commander universal Boff slot. This point makes it seem the most versatile usable for all classes. Will do a lot of damage, and has the potential to be fairly tanky, or have more science abilities. However, my instincts tell me the special console (the super plasma torpedo) will have little or no usefulness in PVP. (Intelligent enemies will simply shoot it down.)

    Dhelan will be very powerful as far as raw damage power. Fleet version has 5 consoles, and with the option to use three threat scaling science consoles, it could do a LOT of plasma damage. The Boff layout is slightly less versatile, but could still be made to work for Engineering or Science classes. Could potentially do insane plasma damage, and could still have a workable amount of tankiness or science. The special console (at least on paper) looks like it will be much MORE USEFUL for a PVP or team environment.

    So please give me your thoughts, especially if you've used these ships. How effective and useful are the special consoles? Which one would you recommend? Do you love or hate either of these and why? Thanks!

    If you're not going for a plasma torp or general torpedo build I would say the Dhelan would probably be the better choice.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    If you're not going for a plasma torp or general torpedo build I would say the Dhelan would probably be the better choice.

    I probably should have stated that I'll most likely use plasma torpedoes (not a "torpedo boat", just as my one torpedo up front). Either the Romulan hyper or Omega, not sure which yet.
    So yes, I will be using plasma torpedoes.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,891 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    djf021 wrote: »
    I probably should have stated that I'll most likely use plasma torpedoes (not a "torpedo boat", just as my one torpedo up front). Either the Romulan hyper or Omega, not sure which yet.
    So yes, I will be using plasma torpedoes.

    Well the T'varo is more for a torpedo boat, not just because of the two piece set but also because of the Enhanced Battle Cloak, so if you're just sticking a single torp in it I would probably go with the Dhelan.
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • djf021djf021 Member Posts: 1,382 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    lianthelia wrote: »
    Well the T'varo is more for a torpedo boat, not just because of the two piece set but also because of the Enhanced Battle Cloak, so if you're just sticking a single torp in it I would probably go with the Dhelan.

    Ah ok that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
    C4117709-1498929112732780large.jpg

    Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
    -Captain James T. Kirk
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    djf021 wrote: »
    So please give me your thoughts, especially if you've used these ships. How effective and useful are the special consoles? Which one would you recommend? Do you love or hate either of these and why? Thanks!

    I have both ships and quickly gave up on the T'Varo, even for a Torp boat. The enhanced battlecloak is not suitable on a Romulan ship because even if you can remain cloaked while firing projectiles, you will still be visible for a few seconds whenever you fire your torps. The enhanced battlecloak works for a much weaker ship like Klignon BoP because they can only do hit & run. The T'Varo or the Dehlan are far more durable and well rounded which don't require them to be cloaked most of the time.

    The T'Varo special console results in a wonky HY torpedo that sometimes don't fire at all. Others reported it just gets stuck when fired. And others even reported it's unusable when fired with APO, severly limiting its damage potential. Even if it does hit, most of its damage is absorbed by shields, resulting in fairly limited damage. Because of its slow travel speed, you can't really aim it at a downed shield, not to mention, it may not even fire at all. In the case that it does fire and I have seen it used against me in a PvP in Kerrat, my Torpedo Spread 3 easily took it out while still hitting the ship which fired it. Coupled with the long cooldown, I rate this special console fairly low, about close to useless.

    The Dhelan special console is the Sabotage Probe. Based on review of combat logs and my own observation in-game, it is a potent weapon. The key is you need to buff your particle generator skills as this influenced its damage greatly. As an example, my PG skill = 115. In a decloaked alpha with tactical team + APO3, the Sabotage probe does approximately 1000 kinetic damage per 1.5 sec and the final explosion, about 8500. So if you can hold the probe for a good 13 sec. before detonating it, we are look at approx. 17500 in hull damage, all of which is 100% by-passing shields. It also has a minor AOE effect such that if there are is another ship near it, it too will be damaged by the electrical pulse for up to 15 seconds and the final explosion can affect multiple ships in its radius (3 as in the case of a Kerrat combat yesterday, based on review of combat log). As a Sci captain, this probe is further affected by the Conservation of Energy Trait such that if you can time it, which is hard, you can further boost the above stated damage by an additional 30%. And like any weapons, it is also capable of going critical, which further increases its damage. Not to forget, this probe also disables the target's weapon and drained their energy such that EPS will malfunction while the probe is in effect and weapon power drained. Most ships affected by this become pretty much unable to control their weapon system for the good 10-15 seconds duration of the probe due to power loss and disable. This is especially harmful when the target has just initiated APA and/or APO and watch their attack totally wasted. Against large targets in PVE, it works as well.

    Their respective set bonus are both interesting and good. The T'Varo set bonus really enhances projectile damage by a lot given it's applied after all other buffs were factored in first. Dhelan set bonus increases shield power by 5 but increases the Defense of the ship by 10. With it, you can construct a ship that has 105 in defense for flying in a straight line, without using cloak or any other power buff, making the ship extremely difficult to hit. In crunch time, the ship is capable boosting its defense to well above 200+ by using powers, coupled with EptE, Escorts are going to hate you, guaranteed.

    The Dhelan is a more rounded ship than the T'Varo and also more durable.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited June 2013
    I stopped reading there. T'Varo torpedo boat is pure lolz. It is hard to do a lot of damage even with all buffs but survivability and speed are pure awesomeness. Here are some tips if you go for one:

    1. Go transphasics. Mix it up with breen cluster torpedo, rapid reload transphasic and a quantum torpedo.
    2. Get Breen set. 30% boost to transphasic dmg
    3. Get some projectile doffs, even green is a good start
    4. Use lt cmdr for science and pick up gravity well and targetting debuff and lt science for heals.
    5. Set aux power to 90 and engines get the balance. No power to weapons and minimal power to shields
    6. Get 3 neutronium and 1 stealth console
    7. Get 2 console set from T'varo refit / retrofit
    8. Get fleet t'varo and make it 4 transphasic consoles in tac
    9. Use singularity powers like jump

    It takes a good deal of practice but you can contribute to PvP and fly around with near impunity.
    iskandus wrote: »
    I have both ships and quickly gave up on the T'Varo, even for a Torp boat. The enhanced battlecloak is not suitable on a Romulan ship because even if you can remain cloaked while firing projectiles, you will still be visible for a few seconds whenever you fire your torps. The enhanced battlecloak works for a much weaker ship like Klignon BoP because they can only do hit & run. The T'Varo or the Dehlan are far more durable and well rounded which don't require them to be cloaked most of the time.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • kyias1kyias1 Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The T'varo is by far the more versatile ship. It has a Lt com uni which lets you lay the ship out like a Dhelan or a Mogai. The ship also has the ability to be a Stealth Bomber if you choose to do so AND a nice 2 piece set bonus: 1 launches a large AOE torp and the other resets your singularity for use.


    The Dhelan has a set layout and is really nice but you just have to ask yourself what you want out of the ship. Do you want that freedom of design the T'varo offers or do you want the more specialized Dhelan?


    They are both nice ships and they both have their own uses. Only you can decide which will make you happier.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kyias1 wrote: »
    The T'varo is by far the more versatile ship. It has a Lt com uni which lets you lay the ship out like a Dhelan or a Mogai. The ship also has the ability to be a Stealth Bomber if you choose to do so AND a nice 2 piece set bonus: 1 launches a large AOE torp and the other resets your singularity for use.


    The Dhelan has a set layout and is really nice but you just have to ask yourself what you want out of the ship. Do you want that freedom of design the T'varo offers or do you want the more specialized Dhelan?


    They are both nice ships and they both have their own uses. Only you can decide which will make you happier.

    uh...no, Dhelan also has a Universal Lt. Commander station. I have seen this false info brought up a few times. They are identical in terms of boff layout.
  • squonkmansquonkman Member Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    uh...no, Dhelan also has a Universal Lt. Commander station. I have seen this false info brought up a few times. They are identical in terms of boff layout.

    Both the C-Store and the shipyard descriptions say that there is one LT CMDR SCI and one LT UNIVERSAL. Are they wrong?
  • kadaeuxkadaeux Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    @iskandus:

    That was .... novel.

    I fly a Fleet T'Varo Torp Bomber. It may not be the best suited for PvP, but to call the Destabilised Plasma Torpedo useless that is absolutely incorrect.

    My Fleet T'Varo has a Mk XI Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher, Mk XII Fleet Tricobalt, Mk XI Har'pheng and a Mk XI Cluster Torp Launcher front.

    Add in that the Destabilised Plasma Torpedo is effectively a 5th Front weapon. Added onto that the FACT that I can fairly regularly get Critical hits of 70k+

    So, instead of "oh listen to these people complaining it must suck!" do a little research of your own next time ;)
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kadaeux wrote: »
    @iskandus:

    I fly a Fleet T'Varo Torp Bomber. It may not be the best suited for PvP, but to call the Destabilised Plasma Torpedo useless that is absolutely incorrect.

    The OP asked a question and I provided my assessment with explicit and clear justifications. You don't have to agree with it. Plus, this Torpedo console is wonky in case you missed this recent threat where many people expressed problems with it :

    Destabilized Plasma Torp Wonky?

    Fleet T'Varo is my first end game ship but it did not last very long. What I am saying is I have tested this weapon myself and can't managed to get it to work properly half of the time, in fact much less. In my view, this torpedo is useless in both pvp and pve. The reason being, in pve, NPC tend to have extremely high level shielding and hull points. Some of the boss level NPC have over 1 million+ hull points and shielding. Given this Torpedo has a long CD vs. other comparable torpedo, a player can technically fire 4 to 6 Plasma Energy Bolt, which has similar amount of damage within the same timeframe vs. only 1 firing from this console, if it even managed to fire. So when this torp actually hits, for example, even a mere Tholian Orb Weaver, the impact barely hurt the Weaver's hull as most of the damage is absorbed by the shields. In a swarm of NPCs that do Beam Fire at Will in group, as is often the case with Tholian NPCs or the recent Elachi NPCs, those destructible projectiles just get annihilated. And you'd have to wait a long time before getting the chance to fire it again. So how useful is that, you tell me?
    My Fleet T'Varo has a Mk XI Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher, Mk XII Fleet Tricobalt, Mk XI Har'pheng and a Mk XI Cluster Torp Launcher front.

    Not sure what's the point of this layout and I don't understand how this kind of build would be effective in either pve or pvp. One thing that catches my eyes immediately is that your fore weapons have longer than average cooldown and counting your "5th fore weapon", 3 out of 5 are destructible projectiles with very long cooldown. As it stands, your fore weapon set up would have great difficulty in even defeating a Nanite Sphere in elite STF because it now constantly chains EPtE, if the Sphere doesn't destroy you first. Plus, none of your fore weapon can effectively take advantage of boff skills boosting torpedo except the tricobat, which doesn't work well with Torpedo Spread, leaving Torpedo HY the only viable option and even so, merely 1 of your 4 fore weapon can be used by your boff. Needless to say, this is a major weakness, which, in my view would hinder your survivability and effectiveness in elite STF PvE.
    Add in that the Destabilised Plasma Torpedo is effectively a 5th Front weapon. Added onto that the FACT that I can fairly regularly get Critical hits of 70k+

    Crit is nice except it is not exactly reliable or predictable. You may think 70k+ is a lot, in fact it isn't. Just because a weapon can sometimes crit with a big number doesn't make it useful. Heck, there are lot of torp out there which can crit into the stratosphere, such as the Heavy Temporal Disruption Device, Plasma Energy Bolt, HY Quantum Torp, HY Hyper Romulan Plasma Torps, Bio-Neural Warhead, just to name a few. However, high damage does not equal practical when you can't hit the enemy or if the shield just neutralize most of the damage.
    So, instead of "oh listen to these people complaining it must suck!" do a little research of your own next time ;)

    Obviously, it isn't clear to you that I have put in a lot of time to think this through. Suffice to say, I did more than just research into it, I actually own the said equipment & ship and actually flew it too.
  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Their are some missions that the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo is very useful like Khitomer Vortex Elite. A lot of targets don't have shields and take full damage in addition the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo also lowers the targets damage resistance allowing other weapons to do more damage. The targets that do have shields like Borg Cubes and the Tactical Cube at the start are easy to hit with the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo.
  • kyias1kyias1 Member Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    uh...no, Dhelan also has a Universal Lt. Commander station. I have seen this false info brought up a few times. They are identical in terms of boff layout.

    The C-store, shipyard, STO wiki all say it has a LT uni slot and a Science Lt Commander.

    If it IS misinformation as you say then it is a gross error in 3 reputable locations, two of which are official. Unless some other people come into the thread stating otherwise or Screenshots then yes, the Tvaro is the only ship that has that wide range of versatility.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Their are some missions that the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo is very useful like Khitomer Vortex Elite. A lot of targets don't have shields and take full damage in addition the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo also lowers the targets damage resistance allowing other weapons to do more damage.

    Any Torpedo would be effective against those targets without shields, plus they can be cycled as little as 1 per sec., as opposed to having to wait several minutes before the next one fires. Projectile doff can speed up the cd of most torpedo but not the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo, hence another major disadvantage right here. So in terms of DPS vs. other Torpedo, this is terrible weapon even at the Khitomer Vortex Elite as that fat Cube sitting right there guarding those targets won't just let you cd your torp harmlessly before you fire again. The long wait would also ensure you miss the optional objective and give a higher chance that Kang would be killed and the mission ends in failure. All in all, it just isn't practical due to the existing bugs and other issues identified already mentioned above.
    The targets that do have shields like Borg Cubes and the Tactical Cube at the start are easy to hit with the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo.

    Yes, they can be easily hit indeed but with the crazy amount of shielding these Cubes have, one single Transphasic Torpedo can do more hull damage than this expensive console at much faster speed too.
  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kyias1 wrote: »
    The C-store, shipyard, STO wiki all say it has a LT uni slot and a Science Lt Commander.

    If it IS misinformation as you say then it is a gross error in 3 reputable locations, two of which are official. Unless some other people come into the thread stating otherwise or Screenshots then yes, the Tvaro is the only ship that has that wide range of versatility.

    I stand corrected, my mistake. My usage of both the T'Varo and Dhelan retains the Lt. Commander Sci station, hence their layout is identical. This confused me into thinking they are the same. To clarify once for all, the T'Varo has a Lt. Command Universal while the Dhelan has a Lt. Universal.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    Projectile doff can speed up the cd of most torpedo but not the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo
    wrong. projectile doffs do affect the CD of the DPT; i saw the cooldown dropping seconds at a time last night during an ISE with 3 purples on active duty and plenty of torp spam going off...of course, that's probably a bug, like how photonic shockwave torpedo CD used to be affected by photonic doffs, so it'll get fixed soon
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • marshalericdavidmarshalericdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    Any Torpedo would be effective against those targets without shields, plus they can be cycled as little as 1 per sec., as opposed to having to wait several minutes before the next one fires. Projectile doff can speed up the cd of most torpedo but not the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo, hence another major disadvantage right here. So in terms of DPS vs. other Torpedo, this is terrible weapon even at the Khitomer Vortex Elite as that fat Cube sitting right there guarding those targets won't just let you cd your torp harmlessly before you fire again. The long wait would also ensure you miss the optional objective and give a higher chance that Kang would be killed and the mission ends in failure. All in all, it just isn't practical due to the existing bugs and other issues identified already mentioned above.



    Yes, they can be easily hit indeed but with the crazy amount of shielding these Cubes have, one single Transphasic Torpedo can do more hull damage than this expensive console at much faster speed too.

    The Kang is on a different mission it is on the Cure Found not Khitomer Vortex.

    I have been on a team with multiple ships with the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo hitting a Tactical Cube and with the damage it does with plasma fire and the debuff of the targets damage resistance the Tactical Cube went boom real fast.

    Have the 2 piece set and your torps fire faster and do more damage per torp. Adding the Destabilized Plasma Torpedo to debuff the target and doing damage is not useless.

    Their are missions that it is not that useful but their are some that it is.
  • kadaeuxkadaeux Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    The OP asked a question and I provided my assessment with explicit and clear justifications. You don't have to agree with it. Plus, this Torpedo console is wonky in case you missed this recent threat where many people expressed problems with it :

    Destabilized Plasma Torp Wonky?

    Fleet T'Varo is my first end game ship but it did not last very long. What I am saying is I have tested this weapon myself and can't managed to get it to work properly half of the time, in fact much less. In my view, this torpedo is useless in both pvp and pve. The reason being, in pve, NPC tend to have extremely high level shielding and hull points. Some of the boss level NPC have over 1 million+ hull points and shielding. Given this Torpedo has a long CD vs. other comparable torpedo, a player can technically fire 4 to 6 Plasma Energy Bolt, which has similar amount of damage within the same timeframe vs. only 1 firing from this console, if it even managed to fire. So when this torp actually hits, for example, even a mere Tholian Orb Weaver, the impact barely hurt the Weaver's hull as most of the damage is absorbed by the shields. In a swarm of NPCs that do Beam Fire at Will in group, as is often the case with Tholian NPCs or the recent Elachi NPCs, those destructible projectiles just get annihilated. And you'd have to wait a long time before getting the chance to fire it again. So how useful is that, you tell me?

    Extremely useful, if you actually know what you're doing.

    I haven't noticed a single problem, i've never had a DPT fail to launch, and i've certainly noticed far more damage output than you're claiming vs NPCs.

    Not sure what's the point of this layout and I don't understand how this kind of build would be effective in either pve or pvp. One thing that catches my eyes immediately is that your fore weapons have longer than average cooldown and counting your "5th fore weapon", 3 out of 5 are destructible projectiles with very long cooldown. As it stands, your fore weapon set up would have great difficulty in even defeating a Nanite Sphere in elite STF because it now constantly chains EPtE, if the Sphere doesn't destroy you first. Plus, none of your fore weapon can effectively take advantage of boff skills boosting torpedo except the tricobat, which doesn't work well with Torpedo Spread, leaving Torpedo HY the only viable option and even so, merely 1 of your 4 fore weapon can be used by your boff. Needless to say, this is a major weakness, which, in my view would hinder your survivability and effectiveness in elite STF PvE.

    Incorrect. Though yes, there is a long cooldown on most of the forward weapons you fail to recognise multiple factors.

    I've had no difficulty stopping Nanite Spheres, they tend to get stuck on the Gate when they run to it and Tractor Mines also tend to stop them dead in their tracks.

    As for the claim that none of my torpedoes take advantage of my Boff skills except the Tricoby, you are really claiming you flew it? Because the Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher is devastating with Torpedo Spread 3.

    Firing a Heavy Tricoby, Cluster Torp and DPT simultaneously also means the AI has to choose what to shoot down and it, in my experience, without fail tries to shoot down 1 incoming object and forgets the other two even exist.

    Your "view" apparently includes poor knowledge on how to run an ESTF.

    Crit is nice except it is not exactly reliable or predictable. You may think 70k+ is a lot, in fact it isn't. Just because a weapon can sometimes crit with a big number doesn't make it useful. Heck, there are lot of torp out there which can crit into the stratosphere, such as the Heavy Temporal Disruption Device, Plasma Energy Bolt, HY Quantum Torp, HY Hyper Romulan Plasma Torps, Bio-Neural Warhead, just to name a few. However, high damage does not equal practical when you can't hit the enemy or if the shield just neutralize most of the damage.

    *Yawn* You repeat this like it actually means anything. I quite reliably kill Cubes and Spheres with the setup without any of the difficulty with shields you are moaning about. And trust me, 70k is quite a lot to the naked hull, and anything within 2.5km of the blast.
    Obviously, it isn't clear to you that I have put in a lot of time to think this through. Suffice to say, I did more than just research into it, I actually own the said equipment & ship and actually flew it too.

    And yet the words coming out of your mouth (metaphorically) don't match your supposed conclusions. You seem completely incapable of understanding the purpose of a stealth boat and seem to, for some unfathomable reason, have absolutely no concept on how such a ship should be run.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited June 2013
    As has been said, T'Varo is great for somethings but not others ... just like most other ships. If you enjoy those things and do some research to build it right, you will have fun.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • marc8219marc8219 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I have both of those ships, but my T'Varo is gathering dust for now until I get t4 romulan rep torp. I can still do alright with it by going all transphasics for pvp, but for pve transphasics suck and you need the Romulan rep torp and all plasma torp/mine build to get good dps there. Also it needs 3 purple torp doffs, and a 2 piece set that increases your torp damage, whether its adapted maco/hg for all torps, or breen for transphasics or Romulan/Reman for plasma. It is much more difficult to equip right away then a Dhelan

    I would go with the Fleet Dhelan for now and maybe consider the Fleet T'varo much later on after rep is maxed and you have all the dil/gear/doffs needed. Fleet Dhelan its just buy DHC and consoles off exchange and your good to go, rest of build wont matter so much as long as you keep spamming CRF with its 5 tac consoles.
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  • iskandusiskandus Member Posts: 1,062 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kadaeux wrote: »
    Extremely useful, if you actually know what you're doing.

    I haven't noticed a single problem, i've never had a DPT fail to launch, and i've certainly noticed far more damage output than you're claiming vs NPCs.

    In other words, all those people reporting problems with it in the linked thread are all liars and simply made up the reported problems / bugs? :confused:

    Why is it in my interest to purposely lowball the damage of this console? Since I have no motivation in doing so, the problem is you speak in vague terms. It's impossible to quantify or gain a relative idea with your vague statements. What does "far more damage output" mean? :confused: I stated that this console produces a damage output comparable to a plasma energy bolt from the omega plasma torp, which should give readers an idea of its ballpark damage. Is this true or not true?
    Incorrect. Though yes, there is a long cooldown on most of the forward weapons you fail to recognise multiple factors.

    You mean you can't admit your setup is...um, amateur? What exactly are those multiple factors that I failed to recognize, please enlighten me.
    I've had no difficulty stopping Nanite Spheres, they tend to get stuck on the Gate when they run to it and Tractor Mines also tend to stop them dead in their tracks.

    In other words, you are reliant once again on luck factor that your NPC opponents somehow get stuck!? That just shows how brilliant your strategy is when you are counting on the nanite spheres being stuck on the Gate as if this happens regularly, if ever. Personally, I have never seen it happened, not before LoR nor after. With them now running EptE all over the place, getting stuck is the last thing they do. Once again, you are demonstrating god like quality - Supreme Luck, must be a secret trait unique to your toon - first your console never bugs unlike a whole thread of people who reported theirs do - in multiple ways, then in your ESTF, the Nanite Spheres mysteriously beach themselves against the Gate!? :cool:
    As for the claim that none of my torpedoes take advantage of my Boff skills except the Tricoby, you are really claiming you flew it? Because the Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher is devastating with Torpedo Spread 3.

    My bad on the Bio-Molecular torp, it is so new and so uninteresting that I simply ignored it so never got the chance to know it. Even when I was leveling up my Rom toon, my Fed toon bank-rolled everything so the Rom has always equipped with very rare toys max. to his level. There was never a need to install that freebie when very rare torp of same Mk is available on the exchange for ec. In any event, I looked it up now once again given your habit of making vague statements without providing facts or give others a clear perspective "e.g. the Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher is devastating with Torpedo Spread 3" One would be scratching his/her head trying to figure out what you mean by "devastating". It's very colorful and one would say, emotional but once again void of facts.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Bio-Molecular_Warhead_Launcher
    The Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher is a ship weapon that can be acquired in the Romulan mission ?Mind Game?. It is a modified Photon Torpedo Launcher and has the same statistics and behavior, but comes with a +20% Accuracy bonus and +20% Damage bonus vs Undine.

    So a glorified photon torpedo Mk XI (rare) with nothing special except added accuracy and damage bonus against Udine only is supposedly to be "devastating"? Given that Udine are not present in ESTF, and Torpedo Spread have automatic 100% accuracy for non-destructible torps, what exactly is gained with this torp? I am inclined to believe you are being intentionally vague because facts do not support your colourful claims, which in turn cut against your credibility once we do a little fact check.

    Here is the damage table of Photon Torpedo to give us a ballpark idea of what you called "devastating" :

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Photon_Torpedo_Launcher

    In other words, this Mk XI (rare) has a ballpark base damage around (3000 ~ 3100) and is supposed to be "devastating" while using TS3?

    There is a reason why a simple search of this torp turns up no result in these forums - it's such an uninteresting weapon that very few people even notice it at all. Anything that is new and remotely OP would have generated quite a bit of discussion by now but clearly, your standard is different.

    Firing a Heavy Tricoby, Cluster Torp and DPT simultaneously also means the AI has to choose what to shoot down and it, in my experience, without fail tries to shoot down 1 incoming object and forgets the other two even exist.

    Once again, I see your "Supreme Luck" trait is at work. AI who shoots once but forget the rest? What kind of AI only shoots once and forget the rest? Your incredible luck is making your stories less and less believable, more like fairy tales. Heck, I used to deploy dispersal pattern beta 3 which instantly spawn 14 mines = 14 separate targets. You know what generally happened? Tholian Recluse will immediately shift focus and rapid fire those mines until they are all gone. When you shoot mines at the Queen, she does the same thing, she went after all the projectiles first, hence a tip in ESTF at Hive is to bring lots of mines in Phase 3 against the Queen because she will focus on those first. That is why my Dhelan no longer carries Dispersal Pattern Beta 3, it is deemed that in PvE, the NPC will often eliminate those quickly and in PvP, players will outrun them. Yet you fire only 3 projectiles, as opposed to 14, somehow your NPCs suddenly become super dumb and would fire only 1? Really?
    Your "view" apparently includes poor knowledge on how to run an ESTF.

    Resorting to personal attacks only shows that you are immature and incapable of carrying a conversation.

    *Yawn* You repeat this like it actually means anything. I quite reliably kill Cubes and Spheres with the setup without any of the difficulty with shields you are moaning about. And trust me, 70k is quite a lot to the naked hull, and anything within 2.5km of the blast.

    You make it sound as though you are the only person firing at those Cubes and Spheres and you accomplished those all alone. Unfortunately, that's quite unlikely given your weapons aren't designed to down shields, certainly not the mega-shields of Cubes in ESTF yet you speak of naked hull. How do you do that by yourself since you said "I quite reliably kill Cubes..."? In a few sentences, it is clear your story is incoherent, exaggerated and clearly patched up with half truths and half lies. Put it bluntly, you are not credible.
    And yet the words coming out of your mouth (metaphorically) don't match your supposed conclusions. You seem completely incapable of understanding the purpose of a stealth boat and seem to, for some unfathomable reason, have absolutely no concept on how such a ship should be run.

    Talk is cheap and meaningless. Since you are so confident, I challenge you to an in-game demonstration, just you and me but I can guarantee you that your ship will blow up easily without much of scratch to mine. My handle in game is exactly the same as my handle in the forum @iskandus. We can work out a mutually convenient time to settle this question once for all. My point is to prove your fore weapon set up and the wonky torp are useless - no better way to do it then actually shove it in your face. Heck, I'll even consider you win if your wonky torp can even hit me just once. Such generous and advantageous terms for you but I suspect you still won't have the guts to accept since you can't talk your way out of a game and your magical "Supreme Luck" trait will suddenly malfunction. :D
  • kadaeuxkadaeux Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    iskandus wrote: »
    In other words, all those people reporting problems with it in the linked thread are all liars and simply made up the reported problems / bugs? :confused:

    No, they're simply unlucky, note that I never said there WEREN'T bugs, I said I had never experienced them.
    Why is it in my interest to purposely lowball the damage of this console? Since I have no motivation in doing so, the problem is you speak in vague terms. It's impossible to quantify or gain a relative idea with your vague statements. What does "far more damage output" mean? :confused: I stated that this console produces a damage output comparable to a plasma energy bolt from the omega plasma torp, which should give readers an idea of its ballpark damage. Is this true or not true?

    Not sure about the Plasma Energy Bolts output, but considering the DPT does 12'000+ damage to anything in 2.5km of its detonation, I doubt it.
    You mean you can't admit your setup is...um, amateur? What exactly are those multiple factors that I failed to recognize, please enlighten me.

    Yes. Totally amateur, only near identical to the most widely accepted B'rel setup
    In other words, you are reliant once again on luck factor that your NPC opponents somehow get stuck!? That just shows how brilliant your strategy is when you are counting on the nanite spheres being stuck on the Gate as if this happens regularly, if ever. Personally, I have never seen it happened, not before LoR nor after. With them now running EptE all over the place, getting stuck is the last thing they do. Once again, you are demonstrating god like quality - Supreme Luck, must be a secret trait unique to your toon - first your console never bugs unlike a whole thread of people who reported theirs do - in multiple ways, then in your ESTF, the Nanite Spheres mysteriously beach themselves against the Gate!?

    Yes. God-like luck. *Insert Sarcastic smiley here.*

    Because I have not had an STF since the Spheres started spamming EptE3 where they haven't gotten them selves stuck on the gate.
    My bad on the Bio-Molecular torp, it is so new and so uninteresting that I simply ignored it so never got the chance to know it. Even when I was leveling up my Rom toon, my Fed toon bank-rolled everything so the Rom has always equipped with very rare toys max. to his level. There was never a need to install that freebie when very rare torp of same Mk is available on the exchange for ec. In any event, I looked it up now once again given your habit of making vague statements without providing facts or give others a clear perspective "e.g. the Bio-Molecular Warhead Launcher is devastating with Torpedo Spread 3" One would be scratching his/her head trying to figure out what you mean by "devastating". It's very colorful and one would say, emotional but once again void of facts.

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Bio-Molecular_Warhead_Launcher

    So a glorified photon torpedo Mk XI (rare) with nothing special except added accuracy and damage bonus against Udine only is supposedly to be "devastating"? Given that Udine are not present in ESTF, and Torpedo Spread have automatic 100% accuracy for non-destructible torps, what exactly is gained with this torp? I am inclined to believe you are being intentionally vague because facts do not support your colourful claims, which in turn cut against your credibility once we do a little fact check.

    Here is the damage table of Photon Torpedo to give us a ballpark idea of what you called "devastating" :

    http://sto.gamepedia.com/Photon_Torpedo_Launcher

    In other words, this Mk XI (rare) has a ballpark base damage around (3000 ~ 3100) and is supposed to be "devastating" while using TS3?

    There is a reason why a simple search of this torp turns up no result in these forums - it's such an uninteresting weapon that very few people even notice it at all. Anything that is new and remotely OP would have generated quite a bit of discussion by now but clearly, your standard is different.

    You apparently seem to think the word "Devastating" = "Overpowered". And yet everyone i've seen who uses it has nothing but praise for it. Is it overpowered? No. Is it bloody effective. Certainly.
    Once again, I see your "Supreme Luck" trait is at work. AI who shoots once but forget the rest? What kind of AI only shoots once and forget the rest? Your incredible luck is making your stories less and less believable, more like fairy tales. Heck, I used to deploy dispersal pattern beta 3 which instantly spawn 14 mines = 14 separate targets. You know what generally happened? Tholian Recluse will immediately shift focus and rapid fire those mines until they are all gone. When you shoot mines at the Queen, she does the same thing, she went after all the projectiles first, hence a tip in ESTF at Hive is to bring lots of mines in Phase 3 against the Queen because she will focus on those first. That is why my Dhelan no longer carries Dispersal Pattern Beta 3, it is deemed that in PvE, the NPC will often eliminate those quickly and in PvP, players will outrun them. Yet you fire only 3 projectiles, as opposed to 14, somehow your NPCs suddenly become super dumb and would fire only 1? Really?

    :rolleyes: More words, no substance. You think, as do many, that the way YOU play it is the only way. That only what happens to you actually happens.

    And your childish inadequate appeals to authority, by claiming anything that works for someone else but not you is "supreme luck" is just sad.
    Resorting to personal attacks only shows that you are immature and incapable of carrying a conversation.

    Stating facts is not personal attacks.
    You make it sound as though you are the only person firing at those Cubes and Spheres and you accomplished those all alone. Unfortunately, that's quite unlikely given your weapons aren't designed to down shields, certainly not the mega-shields of Cubes in ESTF yet you speak of naked hull. How do you do that by yourself since you said "I quite reliably kill Cubes..."? In a few sentences, it is clear your story is incoherent, exaggerated and clearly patched up with half truths and half lies. Put it bluntly, you are not credible.

    No incoherence, unless you have trouble reading which is eminently possible, no exaggeration, no half truths or lies, you'll note that I never said, anywhere, that I did so quickly.
    Talk is cheap and meaningless. Since you are so confident, I challenge you to an in-game demonstration, just you and me but I can guarantee you that your ship will blow up easily without much of scratch to mine. My handle in game is exactly the same as my handle in the forum @iskandus. We can work out a mutually convenient time to settle this question once for all. My point is to prove your fore weapon set up and the wonky torp are useless - no better way to do it then actually shove it in your face. Heck, I'll even consider you win if your wonky torp can even hit me just once. Such generous and advantageous terms for you but I suspect you still won't have the guts to accept since you can't talk your way out of a game and your magical "Supreme Luck" trait will suddenly malfunction. :D

    *Points out that I said earlier it'd never work in PvP

    You can't win points for something I already stated earlier. I'd never take that setup into PvP. I'll even quote myself on the matter.
    I fly a Fleet T'Varo Torp Bomber. It may not be the best suited for PvP, but to call the Destabilised Plasma Torpedo useless that is absolutely incorrect.

    I said that explicitly because any idiot, their dog, and possibly the fleas on it, could defeat it. In fact as I understand it stealth torp bombers are actually supposed to be the worst outfitting you can have for PvP.

    So grow up and learn to read.
  • corjetcorjet Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I love my T'varo! :)
    After seeing some of the notes on the problems with it, I went and did this and yes it was on elite.

    I followed these points and haven't had much trouble except for the 2.5km minimum range and the slowness of the DPT; or the many times the target is blown up before the DPT even gets there. Although I have seen at times where the DPT actually speeds up :)

    I do PVE, STF's etc, and no PVP. 3 Plasma DHC's, 1 Plasma Torp up front with 3 turrets in the rear; none of them are Mk XII's!!! At times with firing just the weapons, I can get some serious damage done. I also go with APtEB which probably boosts the damage too. I added the Shield Absorptive Frequency Generator too. That does proc a lot, but not as much as many people say from what I've seen. Please note that I do not rely on the DPT, it's more just for fun lol Albeit I don't have that other ship. I don't use the EBC much either; and generally stand toe-to-toe.
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    marc8219 wrote: »
    I have both of those ships, but my T'Varo is gathering dust for now until I get t4 romulan rep torp.

    I have a T4 Romulan Rep Torp. I'm loving my T'Varo now.

    I don't run it as a torp boat. I have cannons. I have a Defiant-esque setup. I hit hard with cannons and fade away if I need to.

    However, with the hyperplasma, I can also function as a semi torp boat if I need to, going stealthy and firing streams of torpedoes without giving the Borg a chance to fire back. Killing off probes in CSE or the gate in ISE has never been hard, but they really don't stand a chance against me now.

    The destabilized plasma can be a little wonky, I admit, but it adds a nice damage spike to all those plasmas. It can kill you, though, especially if you're cloaked.

    PVP would be different. I'd probably want to throw a SCI in my universal slot . . . but I'm no expert in that.
  • reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Does the Hyper-Plasma torpedo work with the T'varo's plasma death ball console?
  • umaekoumaeko Member Posts: 748 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Totally.

    Actually, the Destabilizer console doesn't even need a plasma torpedo launcher to work. I managed to use it with a quantum torp launcher.

    ...

    I'm however not positive that the Reman/Romulan prototype set does any actual difference to targetable torpedo endurance and traveling speed. From the testing done with and without, I haven't seen any difference with either the destabilizer, normal plasma torpedo launchers fired with high-yield, or the hyper-plasma torpedo launcher fired normally or with high-yields.
  • shaanithegreenshaanithegreen Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Does the Hyper-Plasma torpedo work with the T'varo's plasma death ball console?

    Yes. AFAIK the console is it's own thing and works regardless of your gear, but I haven't taken off my torpedo launcher to try it.

    The console is worth keeping around. Maybe I have GODLIKE LUCK too or whatever, but I don't think I've ever seen a Borg ship destroy a destabilized torp en route with anything less than a heavy torpedo of their own. I've seen it shrug off beams aplenty. (I have also seen Nanite Spheres get caught in the gates on occasion.)

    Granted, it's not a perfect weapon. I have had it detonate in my face a few times regardless, usually because the enemy gets too close to me, or I get too close to them, or the enemy dies and the torp decides to swing around and hit the enemy who's right next to me. On one memorable occasion, the Tac Cube in ISE decided to come between me and the gate.

    The Destabilized torp also lowers damage resistance and does DOT, which are both decent and neither should be overlooked.
  • alopenalopen Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Anyways . . .

    I would recommend the Dhelan. While I get the appeal of the T'varo to some, it isn't really doing anything that the B'rel retro can't already do. And it makes a far worse Sci platform since your boff layout is picked for you more or less (at least compared to a B'rel). For me, I already have a sci/torp boat toon on KDF side. While fun. It's not the most helpful setup to a team. Be aware that some of the useful team powers keep the B'rel revealed while in use (extend shields for one). In contrast, I find the Dhelan to be pretty survivable for an escort and has more tac consoles so that sci powers are supplementing (as opposed to gimping) a potent pew pew.
  • corjetcorjet Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Well, this is about a Romulan character so a B'rel doesn't factor into the equation. I chose the T'varo - because it was kinda chosen for me since I got the Romulan pack (small version) and I could get the Fleet version at Fleet Tier 1, where as the D'helan's Fleet version comes at Tier 5. For some that could be a long wait. I did grab the Shield Absorptive Frequency Generator from the Valdore, and that made survivability a bit better and had to change my layout.

    I now see that the DT does speed up at times, and also can switch to another mob. I have seen it blown up by mobs too; especially when I'm cloaked and fire it, then run away. Or if I fire it at over 5k range. Although it does help, I do not rely on it since the long cool down and you never know what you might aggro. Firing it at ships is a definite hit or miss.
  • ursusmorologusursusmorologus Member Posts: 5,328 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I dont use the destabilized torp for anything, rather have the console slot for something more reliable
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