Has anyone else noticed that the Fleet Mogai is getting far more hull than it should? Based on the listed hull stats the ship should have 45-48k hull with skill points/gear, yet many ships are running around with 61-63k hull.
You missed my point. One of the biggest flaws in this game is the mix of self-healing and damage-dealing capabilities of escorts, which in the end make them superior to everything else and leave an entire class (engineer, supposed to be tank and healer) completely irrelevant. This new shield heal on top, which isn't even prone to prolonged cooldowns like BOff powers, widens this gap between the classes even further. The other classes can slot this console of course too, but as the heal proc is damage-based they won't get the same results as a tactical captain in an escort. To generate some sense of balance between the classes, tactical captains must be made squishier, not harder.
The Mogai is a destroyer not an escort. It is meant to be more tanky than escorts.
On an unrelated not, the ionization charge console from the retrofit is absolutely worthless. I had to pick up an overcharged singularity core just to make sure I wasn't killing my aux power and aux abilities. Then when I had all the extra power, it still can't shut down the engines of a borg sphere. It's pretty sad.
Cryptic should take out the overcharge function of the console that does damage and just make it a straight engine killer.
You missed my point. One of the biggest flaws in this game is the mix of self-healing and damage-dealing capabilities of escorts, which in the end make them superior to everything else and leave an entire class (engineer, supposed to be tank and healer) completely irrelevant. This new shield heal on top, which isn't even prone to prolonged cooldowns like BOff powers, widens this gap between the classes even further. The other classes can slot this console of course too, but as the heal proc is damage-based they won't get the same results as a tactical captain in an escort. To generate some sense of balance between the classes, tactical captains must be made squishier, not harder.
Considering your point is "this thing does something that that thing does, nerf it!", I didn't miss anything. But bonus points for throwing in "nerf escorts and tacs" to even more marginalize your argument.
On an unrelated not, the ionization charge console from the retrofit is absolutely worthless. I had to pick up an overcharged singularity core just to make sure I wasn't killing my aux power and aux abilities. Then when I had all the extra power, it still can't shut down the engines of a borg sphere. It's pretty sad.
Cryptic should take out the overcharge function of the console that does damage and just make it a straight engine killer.
Based on my reading (and i'll fully admit this may be incorrect) the disable is only supposed to effect enemies between the target and you, not the target itself.
Based on my reading (and i'll fully admit this may be incorrect) the disable is only supposed to effect enemies between the target and you, not the target itself.
And only if the target is exposed by your weapons fire before you fire off the charge.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Considering your point is "this thing does something that that thing does, nerf it!", I didn't miss anything. But bonus points for throwing in "nerf escorts and tacs" to even more marginalize your argument.
Ok, you didn't understand. Read my posts again or simply ignore them. I don't care. You are obviously not interested in a discussion.
The Mogai is a destroyer not an escort. It is meant to be more tanky than escorts.
Yes, I know that, but the Valdore's console can be used on any ship, not only on the Mogai versions. Its instant shield heal console could therefore also be slotted on a Jem Hadar Attack Ship which would make this ship even more imbalanced than it was before.
Ok, you didn't understand. Read my posts again or simply ignore them. I don't care. You are obviously not interested in a discussion.
Try actually having a conversation that includes something more than "I want tacs and escorts nerfed because I don't like that they have survivability", and just maybe you'll get a response.
The shield heal proc is currently over the top. I'm not disputing that, nor have I ever. But the notion that somehow the capacity for self healing on non-cruisers is overpowered, as you've now brought up twice in this thread, is absurd.
Yes, I know that, but the Valdore's console can be used on any ship, not only on the Mogai versions. Its instant shield heal console could therefore also be slotted on a Jem Hadar Attack Ship which would make this ship even more imbalanced than it was before.
You missed my point. One of the biggest flaws in this game is the mix of self-healing and damage-dealing capabilities of escorts, which in the end make them superior to everything else and leave an entire class (engineer, supposed to be tank and healer) completely irrelevant. This new shield heal on top, which isn't even prone to prolonged cooldowns like BOff powers, widens this gap between the classes even further. The other classes can slot this console of course too, but as the heal proc is damage-based they won't get the same results as a tactical captain in an escort. To generate some sense of balance between the classes, tactical captains must be made squishier, not harder.
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE!!!! EVERYONE DELETE YOUR SCI AND ENGI TOONS!!! THE PVE HERO IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!
Get a grip man, all classes are needed. That's why a pvp team is usually 2 tacs and 3 sci/engi.
Go back to shooting Borg probes and leave actually game mechanics discussions to the pros.
Try actually having a conversation that includes something more than "I want tacs and escorts nerfed because I don't like that they have survivability", and just maybe you'll get a response.
You are making things up. That's why I said 'read my posts again'. What I was trying to say with my post above wasn't 'nerf tacs', it was 'don't buff them further!', which this console effectively is. Another buff for tacs. If anything needs a buff in this game it's the engineers.
You are making things up. That's why I said 'read my posts again'. What I was trying to say with my post above wasn't 'nerf tacs', it was 'don't buff them further!', which this console effectively is. Another buff for tacs. If anything needs a buff in this game it's the engineers.
Taticals have been hit with a giant GDF nerfbat already.
Also, what manner of Space Wolf does not applaud more damage? Leman Russ would not be proud!
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE!!!! EVERYONE DELETE YOUR SCI AND ENGI TOONS!!! THE PVE HERO IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!
Get a grip man, all classes are needed. That's why a pvp team is usually 2 tacs and 3 sci/engi.
Go back to shooting Borg probes and leave actually game mechanics discussions to the pros.
Posts like these make me wonder how Cryptic came to the conclusion that the average age of STO's playerbase is 30. Apparantely there are also lots of children among them. Or simply adult people who behave like one. Thanks for your insightful post, 'Pro'.
My point is that you can make an decent PvP team entirely out of Tacs. Same story with Sci's (which I admittedly didn't mention in my first post). But try that with engineers. You can only use one of them decently as bait. If you have more engineers on your team you can be in serious trouble. They are not equal to the other classes in terms of their usefulness.
Honestly I dont want PVE ruined for PVP's sake. But that is just a personal opinion.
Also, a guild mate just did this:
Your Supercharged Ionized Particle Beam deals 42761 (19202) Electrical Damage to Nanite Transformer.
I am considering mounting an Auxiliary battery. With an alpha strike, the ionized spike may not be totally worthless. Maybe its worth it when you are desperate to blow that target.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Honestly I dont want PVE ruined for PVP's sake. But that is just a personal opinion.
Also, a guild mate just did this:
Your Supercharged Ionized Particle Beam deals 42761 (19202) Electrical Damage to Nanite Transformer.
I am considering mounting an Auxiliary battery. With an alpha strike, the ionized spike may not be totally worthless. Maybe its worth it when you are desperate to blow that target.
Eh, that kind of makes up for how useless it is, but thats a lot of speccing for a one hull hit wonder.
You are making things up. That's why I said 'read my posts again'. What I was trying to say with my post above wasn't 'nerf tacs', it was 'don't buff them further!', which this console effectively is. Another buff for tacs. If anything needs a buff in this game it's the engineers.
Right, because Scis and Engineers apparently aren't allowed to use it...
You missed my point. One of the biggest flaws in this game is the mix of self-healing and damage-dealing capabilities of escorts, which in the end make them superior to everything else and leave an entire class (engineer, supposed to be tank and healer) completely irrelevant. This new shield heal on top, which isn't even prone to prolonged cooldowns like BOff powers, widens this gap between the classes even further. The other classes can slot this console of course too, but as the heal proc is damage-based they won't get the same results as a tactical captain in an escort. To generate some sense of balance between the classes, tactical captains must be made squishier, not harder.
Fact: Engineer and Science toons are more than capable of creating ships that allow for this proc to easily heal more than any shield capacity of any flyable ship in-game.
Tacticals being able to overheal beyond that is thusly entirely and completely irrelevant. All classes can use the console to a similar level of effectiveness.
So save your quixotic "nerf the Tac" crusade for a situation where it actually might make sense please.
So save your quixotic "nerf the Tac" crusade for a situation where it actually might make sense please.
Back to square one. I made no such demands, yet you keep putting this in my mouth. I think we should stop this discussion here. This is going nowhere anyway.
Back to square one. I made no such demands, yet you keep putting this in my mouth. I think we should stop this discussion here. This is going nowhere anyway.
Stop lying about what you have and have not explicitly posted, and maybe you can get to a point where having a reasonable conversation is actually possible.
One of the biggest flaws in this game is the mix of self-healing and damage-dealing capabilities of escorts, which in the end make them superior to everything else and leave an entire class (engineer, supposed to be tank and healer) completely irrelevant.
The other classes can slot this console of course too, but as the heal proc is damage-based they won't get the same results as a tactical captain in an escort. To generate some sense of balance between the classes, tactical captains must be made squishier, not harder.
If you're going to deny calling for nerfs, it tends to help to not have called for nerfs.
You are making things up. That's why I said 'read my posts again'. What I was trying to say with my post above wasn't 'nerf tacs', it was 'don't buff them further!', which this console effectively is. Another buff for tacs. If anything needs a buff in this game it's the engineers.
Thanks for reposting all my comments, but it seems you have missed the one in which I tried to explain my statements. You are reading too much into the other ones. The above is what I meant (and on a footnote, you are speaking to someone whos first language is not english). Expressing the wish that Cryptic shouldn't do something that would result in a further buff to tacs isn't equal to 'nerf tacs!' in my understanding. But arguing about semantics isn't really what I consider fun in a discussion, especially not when insults get thrown in my direction.
I'm still plan use just disruptor-plasma DHC/turrets on Mogai and get as much alpha I can, but as Tpalelena comented on page 3, I really miss the big green ball (plasma THY).
Somethings just don't go down fast enough but since the char is lvl 36, I'll play until lvl 45 without torps.
If I can't kill fast enought with guns only, check another possibilities.
Otherwise, torp skills and plasma torp.
Mine turns pretty well and my standard cruising speed is 45+, so it wouldn't be hard to trade my beam weapons. Is there really an advantage though? I like being able to keep hitting them while I'm moving away or turning to setup for my next attack run.
A few of her stats:
Flight Speed: 27
Turn Rate: 30
Hull: 44,526
Once I get up to Tier V in the Romulan Reputation system I intend to fit her with all Romulan Plasma weapons, the Prototype Romulan Space Set Mk XII, and the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo launcher. I'm basically shooting for a "Pure Romulan" build as close to "In-game Canon" as possible. In the meantime I use a Covariant Shield Array Mk XII [Dis] [Tet] (for dealing with Tal Shiar and Tholians) along with the mission reward Efficient Impulse Engines Mk XI for their power boost to subsystems. That combined with the 2-piece set bonus from the Valdore/Mogai Retrofit ensures I'm not ever low on power. We'll see what my power layout ends up as once I'm using the full Romulan Prototype Space Set.
I would suggest using one of the Omega reputation sets, they are Much better then the romulan rep ones.
Also, the Hyper plasma is a very, very nice option for big sitting ducks (Like ESTF bosses and structures).
Since the new "Superspeed Sphere" bug, they are a bit less effective due to their slowness.
But they are still viable, especially for the sheer damage output they do to the big targets.
Even if worse comes to past and the sphere becomes faster then Superman on beans, 3Dhcs and 3 turrets should be enough to take them down.
But for some instances, I find fleet Quantum torp more useful. Like gorn minefield. The enemy just dies so fast that by the way the Hyper plasma and/or energy bolt flies over there, all enemies are dead already. So the lighter and faster quantum is better.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Taticals have been hit with a giant GDF nerfbat already.
Also, what manner of Space Wolf does not applaud more damage? Leman Russ would not be proud!
I have an engineer in a fhec, and the combo seems to work well;
There will always be something that is 'unbalanced' at any point in time in this game, because unless you havent realised, its the way they keep you playing. They nerf it later
so you want something else. Its a built in aspect mostly. .
If it was 100 % level you wouldnt get the 'fancy' of a certain ship apart from looks.
Everybody can have any ship so what does it matter? Its meant to be a fun game. If
you want a serious level competition try chess.
Comments
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
The Mogai is a destroyer not an escort. It is meant to be more tanky than escorts.
On an unrelated not, the ionization charge console from the retrofit is absolutely worthless. I had to pick up an overcharged singularity core just to make sure I wasn't killing my aux power and aux abilities. Then when I had all the extra power, it still can't shut down the engines of a borg sphere. It's pretty sad.
Cryptic should take out the overcharge function of the console that does damage and just make it a straight engine killer.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Considering your point is "this thing does something that that thing does, nerf it!", I didn't miss anything. But bonus points for throwing in "nerf escorts and tacs" to even more marginalize your argument.
Based on my reading (and i'll fully admit this may be incorrect) the disable is only supposed to effect enemies between the target and you, not the target itself.
And only if the target is exposed by your weapons fire before you fire off the charge.
Ok, you didn't understand. Read my posts again or simply ignore them. I don't care. You are obviously not interested in a discussion.
Yes, I know that, but the Valdore's console can be used on any ship, not only on the Mogai versions. Its instant shield heal console could therefore also be slotted on a Jem Hadar Attack Ship which would make this ship even more imbalanced than it was before.
A romulan engineer can easily mount DHCs on a Deridex retrofit and use the console.
Try actually having a conversation that includes something more than "I want tacs and escorts nerfed because I don't like that they have survivability", and just maybe you'll get a response.
The shield heal proc is currently over the top. I'm not disputing that, nor have I ever. But the notion that somehow the capacity for self healing on non-cruisers is overpowered, as you've now brought up twice in this thread, is absurd.
It's a Warbird only console.
It's not 'a bit more durability' when every proc instantly heals your shields completely. No BOff power in this game can achieve that on its own.
And good luck making use of DHC on a ship like the D'Deridex. Turnrate 5 will make sure that you won't fire them very often.
THANKS FOR THE UPDATE!!!! EVERYONE DELETE YOUR SCI AND ENGI TOONS!!! THE PVE HERO IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!
Get a grip man, all classes are needed. That's why a pvp team is usually 2 tacs and 3 sci/engi.
Go back to shooting Borg probes and leave actually game mechanics discussions to the pros.
It's not every proc. Not by a long shot.
I could manage a Bortasque without an old and worse RCS console Before LoR using dual cannons, so I am pretty sure I will do well with them.
Not only its not every proc, the proc can happen with your weakest turret attack just as much as with your strongest DHC critical hit.
Also, I have seen a Fleet Galaxy speed tank everything in Cure space elite today. I was impressed.
You are making things up. That's why I said 'read my posts again'. What I was trying to say with my post above wasn't 'nerf tacs', it was 'don't buff them further!', which this console effectively is. Another buff for tacs. If anything needs a buff in this game it's the engineers.
Taticals have been hit with a giant GDF nerfbat already.
Also, what manner of Space Wolf does not applaud more damage?
Posts like these make me wonder how Cryptic came to the conclusion that the average age of STO's playerbase is 30. Apparantely there are also lots of children among them. Or simply adult people who behave like one. Thanks for your insightful post, 'Pro'.
My point is that you can make an decent PvP team entirely out of Tacs. Same story with Sci's (which I admittedly didn't mention in my first post). But try that with engineers. You can only use one of them decently as bait. If you have more engineers on your team you can be in serious trouble. They are not equal to the other classes in terms of their usefulness.
Also, a guild mate just did this:
Your Supercharged Ionized Particle Beam deals 42761 (19202) Electrical Damage to Nanite Transformer.
I am considering mounting an Auxiliary battery. With an alpha strike, the ionized spike may not be totally worthless. Maybe its worth it when you are desperate to blow that target.
Eh, that kind of makes up for how useless it is, but thats a lot of speccing for a one hull hit wonder.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Right, because Scis and Engineers apparently aren't allowed to use it...
*sigh*
I'm just going to leave this here.
Fact: Engineer and Science toons are more than capable of creating ships that allow for this proc to easily heal more than any shield capacity of any flyable ship in-game.
Tacticals being able to overheal beyond that is thusly entirely and completely irrelevant. All classes can use the console to a similar level of effectiveness.
So save your quixotic "nerf the Tac" crusade for a situation where it actually might make sense please.
Granted, its a pve build, but it turns well enough to spray a lot of damage out and Evasive manoevers can deal with any flanker.
I could have used cloak to make the turn rate decent, but in the mirror invasion evasive manoevers was more then enough.
Back to square one. I made no such demands, yet you keep putting this in my mouth. I think we should stop this discussion here. This is going nowhere anyway.
There isn't a single escort that can use that item.
https://youtube.com/channel/UCJZ5FBJ9bFaZ6yAFiNpZiRQ/featured?view_as=subscriber
Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CaptainCidStorm
Stop lying about what you have and have not explicitly posted, and maybe you can get to a point where having a reasonable conversation is actually possible.
If you're going to deny calling for nerfs, it tends to help to not have called for nerfs.
Thanks for reposting all my comments, but it seems you have missed the one in which I tried to explain my statements. You are reading too much into the other ones. The above is what I meant (and on a footnote, you are speaking to someone whos first language is not english). Expressing the wish that Cryptic shouldn't do something that would result in a further buff to tacs isn't equal to 'nerf tacs!' in my understanding. But arguing about semantics isn't really what I consider fun in a discussion, especially not when insults get thrown in my direction.
I'm still plan use just disruptor-plasma DHC/turrets on Mogai and get as much alpha I can, but as Tpalelena comented on page 3, I really miss the big green ball (plasma THY).
Somethings just don't go down fast enough but since the char is lvl 36, I'll play until lvl 45 without torps.
If I can't kill fast enought with guns only, check another possibilities.
Otherwise, torp skills and plasma torp.
Fore Weapons:
3x Plasma-Disruptor Dual Heavy Cannons (Mk XI)
1x Bio-molecular Warhead Launcher (Mk XI)
Aft Weapons:
3x Disruptor Turrets (Mk XII)
A few of her stats:
Flight Speed: 27
Turn Rate: 30
Hull: 44,526
Once I get up to Tier V in the Romulan Reputation system I intend to fit her with all Romulan Plasma weapons, the Prototype Romulan Space Set Mk XII, and the Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo launcher. I'm basically shooting for a "Pure Romulan" build as close to "In-game Canon" as possible. In the meantime I use a Covariant Shield Array Mk XII [Dis] [Tet] (for dealing with Tal Shiar and Tholians) along with the mission reward Efficient Impulse Engines Mk XI for their power boost to subsystems. That combined with the 2-piece set bonus from the Valdore/Mogai Retrofit ensures I'm not ever low on power. We'll see what my power layout ends up as once I'm using the full Romulan Prototype Space Set.
Also, the Hyper plasma is a very, very nice option for big sitting ducks (Like ESTF bosses and structures).
Since the new "Superspeed Sphere" bug, they are a bit less effective due to their slowness.
But they are still viable, especially for the sheer damage output they do to the big targets.
Even if worse comes to past and the sphere becomes faster then Superman on beans, 3Dhcs and 3 turrets should be enough to take them down.
But for some instances, I find fleet Quantum torp more useful. Like gorn minefield. The enemy just dies so fast that by the way the Hyper plasma and/or energy bolt flies over there, all enemies are dead already. So the lighter and faster quantum is better.
I have an engineer in a fhec, and the combo seems to work well;
There will always be something that is 'unbalanced' at any point in time in this game, because unless you havent realised, its the way they keep you playing. They nerf it later
so you want something else. Its a built in aspect mostly. .
If it was 100 % level you wouldnt get the 'fancy' of a certain ship apart from looks.
Everybody can have any ship so what does it matter? Its meant to be a fun game. If
you want a serious level competition try chess.