You wanna hurt gold sellers?
Make it so that the time invested isn't worth the money they might make. Force them to play to level 10-20 before they can spread messages and they will pack up and move on.
Implement temporary chat and mail silences for all but fleet channels, this will hurt those that do wrong and make an account useless to a gold seller but a player will still be able to retain some use. Fleets will remove gold sellers and they will be unable to join new ones due to silence.
Best way to do it right there. I know in several games you had to get to Level XX before you were allowed to speak in Area/Zone, and than you had to get several more levels to speak in World/Server Chat. They also limited everything to straight "Say" in the immediate vicinity of a few meters of where your at, so anyone outside that range wouldn't see your messages posted.
Another was the auto-censored every possible way to type URL's with .com... DOT COM, .c.o.m... etc spaces in there extra letters symbols and the like. And auto-chat bans for messages that repeat the same sentence in a 5 second span, meaning you had to change at least one word in your sentence not to get the 1 minute chat-ban.
I don't think they should censor EVERY type of URL. I regularly post links to images, or forum topics (either on my fleet's website, or to STO itself). I'm all for preventing spammers, but they should install a blacklist, not force a blanket censor. It's almost as bad as the auto-ban.
As for speaking, STO is SUPPOSED to have a 20-hour playtime requirement before an account can speak in zone chat. I don't know if they changed that, or if it's not working, or if the spammers just sit idle for 20 hours until they can speak. Either way, the 20-hour requirement is clearly not working "as intended".
I'm not opposed to requiring at least one character on the account to be level 10 or higher, in addition to the 20-hour requirement. Additionally, make that level requirement across the board, regardless of subscription status. Most of these gold spammers probably buy $5 in zen and instantly have chat access.
As for chat-bans, it's really annoying that they apply to private channels and whispers, ESPECIALLY with people on my friends list. I could understand if they applied to random strangers, but private channels are typically self-governing, with operators able to mute or kick anyone who causes an issue. And those on my friends list obviously want to talk to me, so why is Cryptic saying "no you can't talk to your friends"?
If i went and put a row of land mines in the street, saying "i'm a hunter, when rabbits walk over them they explode, they're working as intended" will not stop me from being arrested by the police.
The best way to end the Gold sellers is for Cryptic to sell it themselves. They sell Zen so why not EC? If the Gold sellers can make money with it so can Cryptic. Win Win for all.
Works in theory.
Not in practice!
The gold sellers would begin selling their EC at less then what Cryptic charges, which would motivate their customers to keep using them.
Still no response?
Come on Cryptic, throw us a bone!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
yea there are other ways to go about making things hard for gold sellers.
but develops always have to add features that get abused by others.
No, they don't. What they've done is akin to allowing full PvP anywhere in the game, but said, "Now don't go attacking each other! If you do we'll ban you!"
You could put a big, shiny red button in a central location where everyone can see it. Surrounding the buttons are countless warnings: "If you press this button, you will be permanently banned." Attempting to push the button produces another warning that asks you to confirm that you actually want to press it.
Guess what. People will press the button, and those people will complain to CS that they were unfairly banned. You can argue all day and night that it's their fault for being stupid, but at the end of the day, no matter which way you look at it, you have some unhappy customers on your hands. I shouldn't have to explain why that's a bad thing.
I really cannot believe that there is still no apology over this. I put down the silence to the holiday weekend but now...VERY bad form indeed!
There has already been at least one person that has posted stating that this had put them off subbing altogether and whilst we cannot force you to apologize here to those involved I can tell you that no more of my money will be spent on your company until you do. It's simple manners and if you cannot manage that then all my purchases will be with in game currency from this point on.
PLEASE do the right thing and apologize!
Remember all the player rage over the changes to dilithium and a certain Dan Stahl going on about how it's important for people to be polite?
So here's a prefect opportunity for Dan show that he really believes what he says by publicly apologising for the steaming TRIBBLE that is his companies auto-ban feature.
<Dev> Brandon@PWE_BranFlakes: I hear some PMs coming in, but I have that channel turned off as there are too many coming to to respond to Sorry!
Whilst I wouldn't begrudge Brandon the chance to play the game same as everyone else I would have thought that a proper response to this length of thread would have been a wiser choice of his time in this instance.
<Dev> Brandon@PWE_BranFlakes: I hear some PMs coming in, but I have that channel turned off as there are too many coming to to respond to Sorry!
Whilst I wouldn't begrudge Brandon the chance to play the game same as everyone else I would have thought that a proper response to this length of thread would have been a wiser choice of his time in this instance.
This comment was made because I was running a community event, and answering PMs at that time would have taken away from my coordination efforts: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=720531 -- If you've attended any of my past community events, I always post something similar so those who are PMing me do not think I am ignoring them.
As I responded earlier in this thread, I have passed along your feedback so it can be considered, and commit to continue doing so. That is what I can do and will do
Some good news I just learned about, though! We are considering adjusting the way the warning is displayed. I don't have exact details on this yet, but we we are hoping to be able to make it display even more clearer than it already does.
No, they don't. What they've done is akin to allowing full PvP anywhere in the game, but said, "Now don't go attacking each other! If you do we'll ban you!"
Not quite. What they've actually done is like allowing full-world PvP, but made certain areas 'safe' zones where attacking players isn't allowed, even though you are physically able to do so. However, they aren't actually going to list these areas anywhere, but instead leave you to try to work out and/or guess what they're going to be, and, if you guess wrong once, you are given a single warning that is very easy to inadvertently mute or bypass, and a second incorrect guess is met with an automatic account ban. Oh, and sometimes the system glitches, and thinks you're engaging in PvP in a 'safe' zone because a few letters of the name of the zone you're actually PvPing in is similar to a few letters of the name of one of the 'safe' zones.
No, they don't. What they've done is akin to allowing full PvP anywhere in the game, but said, "Now don't go attacking each other! If you do we'll ban you!"
You could put a big, shiny red button in a central location where everyone can see it. Surrounding the buttons are countless warnings: "If you press this button, you will be permanently banned." Attempting to push the button produces another warning that asks you to confirm that you actually want to press it.
Guess what. People will press the button, and those people will complain to CS that they were unfairly banned. You can argue all day and night that it's their fault for being stupid, but at the end of the day, no matter which way you look at it, you have some unhappy customers on your hands. I shouldn't have to explain why that's a bad thing.
Honestly, I would probably be the first to mash said button. Lol
So the auto-banning tool is working as intended, and those who bump into it by accident once are auto-warned before they're banned by it ...
I'd have a lot more confidence in this system if I wasn't on my ____th day of being unable to delete Exchange mail from my in-box. Just one obvious example of things that can and do go wrong.
We have one section of the code handing out bans without human intervention, and we just have to hope and trust that it's working better than, say, the section of code that handles in-game email.
Brandon: a member of my fleet who has contributed literally 10s of millions of fleet credit has had his account banned with a small fortune in refined dilithium, because of this absurd policy. his help ticket is now on its 6th day pending without a human response.
We're eagerly awaiting some kind of sanity on this subject, but it is starting to look like the message is pretty clear: cryptic has taken enough of our money and doesnt want any more.
If some one of this stature can be disregarded so arbitrarily, then I think we all know that we too are of little importance. Sad that some one who spends 5 dollars at s fast food restaurant can get more response than some one who has spent a thousand dollars or more on your product.
I feel so stupid for having purchased a legacy pack, but I'm glad this came to light before I made the mistake of buying a LTS.
Some good news I just learned about, though! We are considering adjusting the way the warning is displayed. I don't have exact details on this yet, but we we are hoping to be able to make it display even more clearer than it already does.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
That's very good news, but even with such a warning I'm sure you'll still have to deal with players who didn't heed it for one reason or another.
Back in TF2 when they first added the inventory system, before they even had hats, items could only be unlocked through achievements. There was no drop system and no trading. You could only get one copy of each available item. However, the first thing they added with backpacks, before drops and before trading, was deletion. You were able to delete your items with absolutely no way to replace them. The delete button gave you a big warning with a confirmation dialogue when you pressed it, and it was clear what was going to happen.
People were deleting their weapons left and right. Eventually Valve restored all the deleted items to keep their customers happy in spite of the fact that deleting their own items was a very poor decision on the customers' part.
Some good news I just learned about, though! We are considering adjusting the way the warning is displayed. I don't have exact details on this yet, but we we are hoping to be able to make it display even more clearer than it already does.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Well, thanks for the update Brandon - knowing the devs are aware that there's a hitch in their plan that may be getting innocent people banned is considerably more comforting than the "working as intended, deal with it" that we've been sitting on for a week. A comfort blunted somewhat after reading that some upstanding members of our community are still dealing with the fallout of this script several days after lodging their complaints.
...
Please don't let the fix be disabling our ability to hide all the useless lockbox spam that we get in the system channel... I need to find some wood to knock on now - I think I just jinxed it.
That said, while altering the warning message to the admin channel and having some kind of popup window that must be manually closed would certainly be a step in the right direction (I'm going to be positive and assume "considering" in this case means 'considering which actions to take' rather than 'considering taking any actions at all')...
I seriously think this automated banning process needs to be 'reconsidered' in its entirety, and disabled (if it hasn't been already) while the devs go back to the drawing board and design a better mouse trap. Because the spammers you're hoping to catch with this one have always been, and will continue to always be, far more agile and clever than any detection program you could hope to write. Because you are writing the program in reaction to their current tactics -
I'm willing to bet that any genuine spam you've caught with the current one were the complacent ones, and now you've started the spam arms race - how fast can you adapt to their ever-changing wording and spam-filter dodging? fly-by-night domain names you have to account for, and block? Link shorteners, redirection services... How long can you continue to adapt the filter before the blocked words list becomes large and unwieldy enough that casual conversation becomes next to impossible?!
It may be 'working as intended', if the scope of the intent was limited to "if anyone says 'X' ban them". But I'd humbly suggest that the scope of the intent be expanded to "Ban the actual gold-spammers, without innocents being caught in the crossfire" - which judging by the mere existence of this thread, the script has utterly failed to do.
in my opinion i think that security measure is a bit excessive.
they should just put in some sorta new measure in place to have
a like permanent chat ban and ban from the mail system.
allow them to still play but have them banned from any type of
communication in game....
I must say this is one of the reasons I block almost all chat in the game. Yes I use channel chat very minimally but if I want to talk to someone on my team I use our private password secured teamspeak server. And since I dont play with others unless they are online in that way its no great loss that this filter is nailing people. though I do feel for those that are innocently targeted by a botnet filter... I would ask that they put such targeted words in the language filter so they are not showed at all to those like myself that make use of the language filters for what little text chat I participate with in game. IMHO its something that was needed but its been pushed into overkill. Anything that takes these hacking illegal gold resellers out of any game is well worth the price of loosing chat. personally I would rather the full removal of person to person trade entirely. Just my opinion...
Hope those that were banned for this text indiscretion and nothing more are able to get their accounts back... if anything I think this will discourage more people from using chat at all in game... Certainly reinforces my choice not to use it much at all....
So if you don't like someone, you could just trick them into writing that web address and they get their account banned? What kind of madness is this?
And why is the answer only a "mail support and hope for the best" and not a "This is really disturbing news, our engineers are going to investigate immediately and ensure that no legitimate player loses their account."?
Ok, this JUST happened to me a moment ago also. This TOTALLY unacceptable that there is nothing anywhere on the site that lists or mentions bannable chat words except for swearing and such. I have spent over $700 with Cryptic on STO since Oct 2012 and feel an instant ban for typing that company's name in chat when they have sent my account at least 2 different spam emails in-game recently is just insane.
So, if you folks are going to have a outrageously harsh policy then you need the freakn' POST that somewhere please. I am and VERY unhappy camper!
BTW Brandon, I received no in-game warning at all sir. Just ban, your done.
So if you don't like someone, you could just trick them into writing that web address and they get their account banned? What kind of madness is this?
And why is the answer only a "mail support and hope for the best" and not a "This is really disturbing news, our engineers are going to investigate immediately and ensure that no legitimate player loses their account."?
Thank you for the email addy Brandon, I just sent mine a moment ago. For the love of anything that is sane and right in the world PLEASE have that team fix this issue or at the very least have some sort of in-game warning system in place for folks that didn't think to google every word they say in chat that is longer than 2-3 letters first sir.
Thank you. (still VERY upset though)
-Pez
P.S. over an hour later and I still cant sleep over this TRIBBLE tonight Brandon. I just feel really treated unfairly by Cryptic and can not get over the lack of in-game warning system at all. Is there anyone there I can contact directly about this issue? After over 30 years in customer service I feel this situation needs to be addressed quickly and placed on someone's desk who can make changes right away.
This comment was made because I was running a community event, and answering PMs at that time would have taken away from my coordination efforts: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=720531 -- If you've attended any of my past community events, I always post something similar so those who are PMing me do not think I am ignoring them.
As I responded earlier in this thread, I have passed along your feedback so it can be considered, and commit to continue doing so. That is what I can do and will do
Some good news I just learned about, though! We are considering adjusting the way the warning is displayed. I don't have exact details on this yet, but we we are hoping to be able to make it display even more clearer than it already does.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Colored by me for emphasis.
Disclaimer:I'm aware your job is extremely difficult. I'm aware you aren't the one who's designing this flawed system, or one who's responsible for it, or making decisions regarding it. As such, any critique I express towards it, isn't directed at you personally, but rather directed through you towards - ultimately - PWE for implementing the system.. just as I take the responses from you as being responses initiated by PWE, and expressed through you. I don't envy your position as the face the company like PWE presents to it's customers.
It's better than nothing, but not enough the way I see it.
It's improvement, because as long as the message can be guaranteed to go through (refer to earlier suggestion about pop-up window with checkbox and confirm before you can do anything else), at least most people who are banned by the system will be aware that it's in place.. so after the first blunder the smart ones will hang their heads and STFO on all chat channels.
It's not enough though, because the system is not exactly reliable. It's not reliable, because like so many other systems that try to interprete free text in various ways, it isn't aware of the context. And this particular system is obviously akin to newborn baby in that regard. A dumb letter pattern match will have no idea what the context or intent of the message actually was, and when you take it to the level that is necessary to try and (fail to) catch all the myriads obfuscated ways one can go about spelling the EC seller names, you unavoidably end up with a system that will fire off at complitely innocent sentences.
Ultimately the response of EC sellers would be to create domains that are either so short that the pattern will come up in everyday chat (2 or 3 letters) or so common words that they accomplish the same (e.g. "resources"). Also keep in mind that people are not perfect typists. They make mistakes. If you ban someone for mentioning 'egpal' in any context, you'll also ban anyone who typos 'legplates' into 'legpaltes'.
In this light, however clear and glaring you make the warning, in long term it accomplishes little more than forcing people to complitely stop using the chat, in fear that after their first 'mistake' - which quite possibly is in no way connected to the whole EC selling business (refer to carpentry example in my sig) - their second fully unintended mistake will cost them their account.
This whole system is flawed from the very foundation. You simply cannot automate a system like this. No way, no how. It can meet with some initial success because the EC sellers are unprepared for the system, but once they begin to adapt to it, it no longer works. And if you start to evolve the automated system in order to fight them, you have to make the triggers wider and wider, and in turn you'll catch more and more innocent players. You'll end up inconviniencing and hurting the very people you should try to protect with the system (you can consider the target of the protection to be the earnings of the company, that are diminished by EC sellers undercutting the prices, but ultimately it leads to same thing - players are the ones to bring in the revenue).
One way or the other, the only way to make the system work, is to bring in the human touch to interprete the context of the potentially offending message. You can make an automated system that pre-filters the messages to be checked, to make the human's job easier.. but you can not make the system complitely automated, and expect it to work. Human (seller) will always outsmart a simple word/letter filter that isn't aware of the context and semantics of the message - a filter that only policies letters, and not the actual message.
<-- .t'nseod yllareneg retlif bmud a erehw gninaem dnif lliw namuh A <--
I can forsee a hidden trap here for the international players.
If they are chatting in their native language in a pm, and type a word in that language that includes the forbidden 5 letter sequence, they get autobanned.
That person will have no idea what just happened.
Also, banning someone for a typo including those letters is just ludicrous.
This approach to spambot banning has the potential to cost you real money in large amounts.
I suggest it is just as important and urgent as the server stability fixes that have taken place every day for some time now.
I can forsee a hidden trap here for the international players.
If they are chatting in their native language in a pm, and type a word in that language that includes the forbidden 5 letter sequence, they get autobanned.
That person will have no idea what just happened.
Also, banning someone for a typo including those letters is just ludicrous.
This approach to spambot banning has the potential to cost you real money in large amounts.
I suggest it is just as important and urgent as the server stability fixes that have taken place every day for some time now.
Agreed. A year ago several hungarian everyday words were marked as "profane" by the curse filter in game. There were no curse words, just basic things like "Door" .
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
So the auto-banning tool is working as intended, and those who bump into it by accident once are auto-warned before they're banned by it ...
I'd have a lot more confidence in this system if I wasn't on my ____th day of being unable to delete Exchange mail from my in-box. Just one obvious example of things that can and do go wrong.
We have one section of the code handing out bans without human intervention, and we just have to hope and trust that it's working better than, say, the section of code that handles in-game email.
+1, If the game and coders was much better i still would not trust a system like this, but with all the bugs in the game ... the ban system only need to bug 1 time and we loose our account...
Is muting some1 for a day not a better way to start ??
Putting key-words in a filter, that always work ???
But what you guys made .. no words for it..
On the one hand I am glad something is being done about these hacker spammers, on the other just to talk about it gets you banned. . .<Picard Double Face Palm> Then all Bran can say is contact support directly? Employee's are over whelmed as it is with tickets and emails. Took 2 weeks to get to my ticket and yet they still couldn't restore any of my characters that went missing?? Don't hold your breath on this one, it's going to be a loooonnnngggg wait.
One of my fleets is actually looking into third-party chat options because of this. We've had at least one member get banned simply for mistyping a word or two, or inadvertently saying a trigger word.
None of us wants to be banned simply for saying the name of a company. We're not spamming chats or whispers, or sending out mass emails. We're not telling people to buy our stuff. We're simply trying to have conversations or roleplay our characters.
I seriously hope PWE and Cryptic either turn this system off completely, or make some major changes to it so members (some of whom have spent thousands on this game) don't get caught in the crossfire.
On the one hand I am glad something is being done about these hacker spammers, on the other just to talk about it gets you banned. . .<Picard Double Face Palm> Then all Bran can say is contact support directly? Employee's are over whelmed as it is with tickets and emails. Took 2 weeks to get to my ticket and yet they still couldn't restore any of my characters that went missing?? Don't hold your breath on this one, it's going to be a loooonnnngggg wait.
Missing characters? What is this about? Are seriously saying that there is a chance I will loose toons over this non-since? Two weeks?
WOW, Brandon I must appeal to common decency here and ask you to intervene and communicate this atrocity to the folks that can make this change happen, like now. Not "its being looked at" excuses.
As the #3 in charge of a very small and upcoming fleet my absence over this time it will take to get my account reinstated is a real issue with delays in completing and queuing up fleet missions and such. I have alone contributed over 4.5 mil in donations in regards to fleet credit earnings with my main toon alone. Now I just spent 350,000 in dilithum to finish a project with my new Romulan to upgrade to fleet equipment and now I'm out for an undermined amount of time? This really hurts a small fleet that struggles with completing fleets projects with limited rosters in the current non-scaled fleet project system. Also be nice to see that addressed too but I know I'm pushing my luck at this point.
this is what happens when you leave a "basic script" to handle what a human should be reading in a report, i have reported people like this before, best thing until pwe's method of handling these people are more "clear" is to due what i do, treat the spammer like they do not exist, and file a report in the name of the person, and what they did, or if they had made a character named by a website, and want you to say the name, which indicates no human triggering the ban, "script ran" is no administration at all, or named their ship such a name, or all of the above.
thankfully i have not had this issue, but running their bans by a script i do not believe in, that is just baaaaad .... :S
thought police anyone? looks as bad as a pvp exploit, this is how it really goes watch lol
(ex.
troll #1:"hey, i have an idea, let's get that one to say the name so they will get kicked from the game hurr hurr hurr"
troll #2: "yup, good exploit, we will be pwning n00bs all day with this tool XD"
troll #1: "LOL! let's enter some chats with some n00b toons named by a website and see if we find some idiots HAAHAHAHAHA!!
troll #2: rofl!)
you think i am joking? something like the above was going on yesterday
best process since Win95: spam is spam, kill it dead, inform an administrator/GM
best response since Win95, handle it as a separate entity, all being pertained to behavior on it's own list to sort out the real issues from the ones that are not
Update at ban hour #12. Apparently there is progress at Cryptic on this issue as my account was just reinstated just a moment ago without email or ticket update. This does make me feel some level of encouragement that there are actual humans looking at this problem.
Either way this script needs to just go away to be replaced by some sort up pop-up window or server notification that can't be disabled in chat settings. Common since folks, or am I wrong?
Comments
Best way to do it right there. I know in several games you had to get to Level XX before you were allowed to speak in Area/Zone, and than you had to get several more levels to speak in World/Server Chat. They also limited everything to straight "Say" in the immediate vicinity of a few meters of where your at, so anyone outside that range wouldn't see your messages posted.
Another was the auto-censored every possible way to type URL's with .com... DOT COM, .c.o.m... etc spaces in there extra letters symbols and the like. And auto-chat bans for messages that repeat the same sentence in a 5 second span, meaning you had to change at least one word in your sentence not to get the 1 minute chat-ban.
As for speaking, STO is SUPPOSED to have a 20-hour playtime requirement before an account can speak in zone chat. I don't know if they changed that, or if it's not working, or if the spammers just sit idle for 20 hours until they can speak. Either way, the 20-hour requirement is clearly not working "as intended".
I'm not opposed to requiring at least one character on the account to be level 10 or higher, in addition to the 20-hour requirement. Additionally, make that level requirement across the board, regardless of subscription status. Most of these gold spammers probably buy $5 in zen and instantly have chat access.
As for chat-bans, it's really annoying that they apply to private channels and whispers, ESPECIALLY with people on my friends list. I could understand if they applied to random strangers, but private channels are typically self-governing, with operators able to mute or kick anyone who causes an issue. And those on my friends list obviously want to talk to me, so why is Cryptic saying "no you can't talk to your friends"?
If i went and put a row of land mines in the street, saying "i'm a hunter, when rabbits walk over them they explode, they're working as intended" will not stop me from being arrested by the police.
Works in theory.
Not in practice!
The gold sellers would begin selling their EC at less then what Cryptic charges, which would motivate their customers to keep using them.
Still no response?
Come on Cryptic, throw us a bone!
Bees like honey, they don't like vinegar.
Everytime someone makes a character that is an copy of an existing superhuman, Creativity is sad
No, they don't. What they've done is akin to allowing full PvP anywhere in the game, but said, "Now don't go attacking each other! If you do we'll ban you!"
You could put a big, shiny red button in a central location where everyone can see it. Surrounding the buttons are countless warnings: "If you press this button, you will be permanently banned." Attempting to push the button produces another warning that asks you to confirm that you actually want to press it.
Guess what. People will press the button, and those people will complain to CS that they were unfairly banned. You can argue all day and night that it's their fault for being stupid, but at the end of the day, no matter which way you look at it, you have some unhappy customers on your hands. I shouldn't have to explain why that's a bad thing.
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
Remember all the player rage over the changes to dilithium and a certain Dan Stahl going on about how it's important for people to be polite?
So here's a prefect opportunity for Dan show that he really believes what he says by publicly apologising for the steaming TRIBBLE that is his companies auto-ban feature.
20 hours? It's closer to 20 minutes and it doesn't cost them a cent
Whilst I wouldn't begrudge Brandon the chance to play the game same as everyone else I would have thought that a proper response to this length of thread would have been a wiser choice of his time in this instance.
This comment was made because I was running a community event, and answering PMs at that time would have taken away from my coordination efforts: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=720531 -- If you've attended any of my past community events, I always post something similar so those who are PMing me do not think I am ignoring them.
As I responded earlier in this thread, I have passed along your feedback so it can be considered, and commit to continue doing so. That is what I can do and will do
Some good news I just learned about, though! We are considering adjusting the way the warning is displayed. I don't have exact details on this yet, but we we are hoping to be able to make it display even more clearer than it already does.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Not quite. What they've actually done is like allowing full-world PvP, but made certain areas 'safe' zones where attacking players isn't allowed, even though you are physically able to do so. However, they aren't actually going to list these areas anywhere, but instead leave you to try to work out and/or guess what they're going to be, and, if you guess wrong once, you are given a single warning that is very easy to inadvertently mute or bypass, and a second incorrect guess is met with an automatic account ban. Oh, and sometimes the system glitches, and thinks you're engaging in PvP in a 'safe' zone because a few letters of the name of the zone you're actually PvPing in is similar to a few letters of the name of one of the 'safe' zones.
I'd have a lot more confidence in this system if I wasn't on my ____th day of being unable to delete Exchange mail from my in-box. Just one obvious example of things that can and do go wrong.
We have one section of the code handing out bans without human intervention, and we just have to hope and trust that it's working better than, say, the section of code that handles in-game email.
We're eagerly awaiting some kind of sanity on this subject, but it is starting to look like the message is pretty clear: cryptic has taken enough of our money and doesnt want any more.
If some one of this stature can be disregarded so arbitrarily, then I think we all know that we too are of little importance. Sad that some one who spends 5 dollars at s fast food restaurant can get more response than some one who has spent a thousand dollars or more on your product.
I feel so stupid for having purchased a legacy pack, but I'm glad this came to light before I made the mistake of buying a LTS.
That's very good news, but even with such a warning I'm sure you'll still have to deal with players who didn't heed it for one reason or another.
Back in TF2 when they first added the inventory system, before they even had hats, items could only be unlocked through achievements. There was no drop system and no trading. You could only get one copy of each available item. However, the first thing they added with backpacks, before drops and before trading, was deletion. You were able to delete your items with absolutely no way to replace them. The delete button gave you a big warning with a confirmation dialogue when you pressed it, and it was clear what was going to happen.
People were deleting their weapons left and right. Eventually Valve restored all the deleted items to keep their customers happy in spite of the fact that deleting their own items was a very poor decision on the customers' part.
...
Please don't let the fix be disabling our ability to hide all the useless lockbox spam that we get in the system channel... I need to find some wood to knock on now - I think I just jinxed it.
That said, while altering the warning message to the admin channel and having some kind of popup window that must be manually closed would certainly be a step in the right direction (I'm going to be positive and assume "considering" in this case means 'considering which actions to take' rather than 'considering taking any actions at all')...
I seriously think this automated banning process needs to be 'reconsidered' in its entirety, and disabled (if it hasn't been already) while the devs go back to the drawing board and design a better mouse trap. Because the spammers you're hoping to catch with this one have always been, and will continue to always be, far more agile and clever than any detection program you could hope to write. Because you are writing the program in reaction to their current tactics -
I'm willing to bet that any genuine spam you've caught with the current one were the complacent ones, and now you've started the spam arms race - how fast can you adapt to their ever-changing wording and spam-filter dodging? fly-by-night domain names you have to account for, and block? Link shorteners, redirection services... How long can you continue to adapt the filter before the blocked words list becomes large and unwieldy enough that casual conversation becomes next to impossible?!
It may be 'working as intended', if the scope of the intent was limited to "if anyone says 'X' ban them". But I'd humbly suggest that the scope of the intent be expanded to "Ban the actual gold-spammers, without innocents being caught in the crossfire" - which judging by the mere existence of this thread, the script has utterly failed to do.
they should just put in some sorta new measure in place to have
a like permanent chat ban and ban from the mail system.
allow them to still play but have them banned from any type of
communication in game....
Hope those that were banned for this text indiscretion and nothing more are able to get their accounts back... if anything I think this will discourage more people from using chat at all in game... Certainly reinforces my choice not to use it much at all....
Ok, this JUST happened to me a moment ago also. This TOTALLY unacceptable that there is nothing anywhere on the site that lists or mentions bannable chat words except for swearing and such. I have spent over $700 with Cryptic on STO since Oct 2012 and feel an instant ban for typing that company's name in chat when they have sent my account at least 2 different spam emails in-game recently is just insane.
So, if you folks are going to have a outrageously harsh policy then you need the freakn' POST that somewhere please. I am and VERY unhappy camper!
BTW Brandon, I received no in-game warning at all sir. Just ban, your done.
-Pez
Thank you for the email addy Brandon, I just sent mine a moment ago. For the love of anything that is sane and right in the world PLEASE have that team fix this issue or at the very least have some sort of in-game warning system in place for folks that didn't think to google every word they say in chat that is longer than 2-3 letters first sir.
Thank you. (still VERY upset though)
-Pez
P.S. over an hour later and I still cant sleep over this TRIBBLE tonight Brandon. I just feel really treated unfairly by Cryptic and can not get over the lack of in-game warning system at all. Is there anyone there I can contact directly about this issue? After over 30 years in customer service I feel this situation needs to be addressed quickly and placed on someone's desk who can make changes right away.
Colored by me for emphasis.
Disclaimer: I'm aware your job is extremely difficult. I'm aware you aren't the one who's designing this flawed system, or one who's responsible for it, or making decisions regarding it. As such, any critique I express towards it, isn't directed at you personally, but rather directed through you towards - ultimately - PWE for implementing the system.. just as I take the responses from you as being responses initiated by PWE, and expressed through you. I don't envy your position as the face the company like PWE presents to it's customers.
It's better than nothing, but not enough the way I see it.
It's improvement, because as long as the message can be guaranteed to go through (refer to earlier suggestion about pop-up window with checkbox and confirm before you can do anything else), at least most people who are banned by the system will be aware that it's in place.. so after the first blunder the smart ones will hang their heads and STFO on all chat channels.
It's not enough though, because the system is not exactly reliable. It's not reliable, because like so many other systems that try to interprete free text in various ways, it isn't aware of the context. And this particular system is obviously akin to newborn baby in that regard. A dumb letter pattern match will have no idea what the context or intent of the message actually was, and when you take it to the level that is necessary to try and (fail to) catch all the myriads obfuscated ways one can go about spelling the EC seller names, you unavoidably end up with a system that will fire off at complitely innocent sentences.
Ultimately the response of EC sellers would be to create domains that are either so short that the pattern will come up in everyday chat (2 or 3 letters) or so common words that they accomplish the same (e.g. "resources"). Also keep in mind that people are not perfect typists. They make mistakes. If you ban someone for mentioning 'egpal' in any context, you'll also ban anyone who typos 'legplates' into 'legpaltes'.
In this light, however clear and glaring you make the warning, in long term it accomplishes little more than forcing people to complitely stop using the chat, in fear that after their first 'mistake' - which quite possibly is in no way connected to the whole EC selling business (refer to carpentry example in my sig) - their second fully unintended mistake will cost them their account.
This whole system is flawed from the very foundation. You simply cannot automate a system like this. No way, no how. It can meet with some initial success because the EC sellers are unprepared for the system, but once they begin to adapt to it, it no longer works. And if you start to evolve the automated system in order to fight them, you have to make the triggers wider and wider, and in turn you'll catch more and more innocent players. You'll end up inconviniencing and hurting the very people you should try to protect with the system (you can consider the target of the protection to be the earnings of the company, that are diminished by EC sellers undercutting the prices, but ultimately it leads to same thing - players are the ones to bring in the revenue).
One way or the other, the only way to make the system work, is to bring in the human touch to interprete the context of the potentially offending message. You can make an automated system that pre-filters the messages to be checked, to make the human's job easier.. but you can not make the system complitely automated, and expect it to work. Human (seller) will always outsmart a simple word/letter filter that isn't aware of the context and semantics of the message - a filter that only policies letters, and not the actual message.
<-- .t'nseod yllareneg retlif bmud a erehw gninaem dnif lliw namuh A <--
Youz cazn quiczkly esztabzlish a sysztem thazt huzman zwill caztch zon tzo, whezre az filzter fzails toz zautomzaticalzly adazpt zto.
Txhxexrxexfxoxrxe yxoxu cxaxn oxbxfxuxsxcxaxtxe txhxe mxexsxsxaxgxe axnxd pxaxsxs ixt txhxrxoxuxgxh txhxe fxixlxtxexr, fxoxr axnxoxtxhxexr hxuxmxaxn txo ixnxtxexrxpxrxextxe.
Master tells you: buy cheap TRIBBLE___TRIBBLE__X___X___X___X_X___X .cmo
Master tells you: buy cheap X__X_X___X_XX_XX__X_X__X_XX__X .cmo
Master tells you: buy cheap X__X_X___X_X_X_X_X___X_X_X_X_X .cmo
Master tells you: buy cheap X__X_X___X_X___X_XXXXX_X_X__XX .cmo
Master tells you: buy cheap TRIBBLE___TRIBBLE__X___X_X___X_X_X___X .cmo
If they are chatting in their native language in a pm, and type a word in that language that includes the forbidden 5 letter sequence, they get autobanned.
That person will have no idea what just happened.
Also, banning someone for a typo including those letters is just ludicrous.
This approach to spambot banning has the potential to cost you real money in large amounts.
I suggest it is just as important and urgent as the server stability fixes that have taken place every day for some time now.
Agreed. A year ago several hungarian everyday words were marked as "profane" by the curse filter in game. There were no curse words, just basic things like "Door" .
+1, If the game and coders was much better i still would not trust a system like this, but with all the bugs in the game ... the ban system only need to bug 1 time and we loose our account...
Is muting some1 for a day not a better way to start ??
Putting key-words in a filter, that always work ???
But what you guys made .. no words for it..
None of us wants to be banned simply for saying the name of a company. We're not spamming chats or whispers, or sending out mass emails. We're not telling people to buy our stuff. We're simply trying to have conversations or roleplay our characters.
I seriously hope PWE and Cryptic either turn this system off completely, or make some major changes to it so members (some of whom have spent thousands on this game) don't get caught in the crossfire.
Missing characters? What is this about? Are seriously saying that there is a chance I will loose toons over this non-since? Two weeks?
WOW, Brandon I must appeal to common decency here and ask you to intervene and communicate this atrocity to the folks that can make this change happen, like now. Not "its being looked at" excuses.
As the #3 in charge of a very small and upcoming fleet my absence over this time it will take to get my account reinstated is a real issue with delays in completing and queuing up fleet missions and such. I have alone contributed over 4.5 mil in donations in regards to fleet credit earnings with my main toon alone. Now I just spent 350,000 in dilithum to finish a project with my new Romulan to upgrade to fleet equipment and now I'm out for an undermined amount of time? This really hurts a small fleet that struggles with completing fleets projects with limited rosters in the current non-scaled fleet project system. Also be nice to see that addressed too but I know I'm pushing my luck at this point.
Still a very unhappy camper...
-Pez
thankfully i have not had this issue, but running their bans by a script i do not believe in, that is just baaaaad .... :S
thought police anyone? looks as bad as a pvp exploit, this is how it really goes watch lol
(ex.
troll #1:"hey, i have an idea, let's get that one to say the name so they will get kicked from the game hurr hurr hurr"
troll #2: "yup, good exploit, we will be pwning n00bs all day with this tool XD"
troll #1: "LOL! let's enter some chats with some n00b toons named by a website and see if we find some idiots HAAHAHAHAHA!!
troll #2: rofl!)
you think i am joking? something like the above was going on yesterday
best process since Win95: spam is spam, kill it dead, inform an administrator/GM
best response since Win95, handle it as a separate entity, all being pertained to behavior on it's own list to sort out the real issues from the ones that are not
Either way this script needs to just go away to be replaced by some sort up pop-up window or server notification that can't be disabled in chat settings. Common since folks, or am I wrong?
-Pez