Khev is okay. He reminds me that we're mere Romulans, and only Trek Earthlings have common sense. I wish my character would slap him upside the head every time he says something, but going with the flow is probably Romulan too. I made him look like a Vulcan himbo, that way he's easier to forgive.
That's exactly it. He's less Romulan than any of the other New Romulans, which is saying something. Cryptic apparently forgot that Romulans are scheming, devious TRIBBLE by nature, as it's their way of handling their innately erratic emotions. Vulcans have logic, Romulans have their schemes. Tovan is more Bajoran than Romulan.
Not to mention the fact that he's the protagonist of the entire story, with my character as his wingman. He figures everythign out. It's his sister we're saving. He's the one with the relationship with Chavra. He saves our butt from Hakeev's ship. It's all Tovan, Tovan, Tovan.
And I can't get rid of him. He takes up a boff slot that I want to use for a customized member of my crew, one I can actually become attached to because I created him or her. That's what Boffs have always been in STO: extensions of my character, that I created with their own stories and their own histories. Not the same character everyone else has.
I want him off my ship permanently, and if Cryptic ever gives Feds the same treatment--or if god forbid they give Cardassians the same treatment when they eventually become playable--I'd never make a new character.
This! A thousand times this!
Tovan isn't a Romulan, he is a Bajoran vedek who has infiltrated my ship.:mad:
Tovan isn't scheming or devious? lolwut?
Tovan decided to help you infiltrate the Tal'Shiar as part of an elaborate revenge plot.
You mean the "elaborate revenge plot" where he forces you to free 2 (utterly disgraced) captured klingons because they are "our friends and allies" with the risk of the entire mission getting compromised? Or the next part where he orders you to tell the Reman colonists that the Tal Shiar is about to invade their colony, essentially ruining your Tal Shiar infiltration mission, rather than sacrificing the Reman scum to gain the opportunity to learn more Tal Shiar secrets like a true Romulan would have done. That would have been a scheme.
Tovan... he's not too annoying. Admittedly, as soon as you get assigned to infiltrate the Tal Shiar (If I was playing my character as following the mission plots exactly, instead of having her own backstory and actions etc) she'd probably go "Tovan, you are sitting this one out." Because he's too vocal. Yeah, the one mission where you help an invasion is bad, but he outright starts going "Let's ruin our cover and make all our work so far for nothing!"
What REALLY bugged me was the fact my lib borg reman boff (who I slotted as my tac officer on space and ground) talked with tovan's voice. Then the entire setup glitched and for example, the scene where you and Tovan board the Keldon? It was me and Satra. who was talking in Tovan's voice. This happened SEVERAL times.
That made me hate him more then another else. That and his normal outfit top? Doesn't even have a full color select. (Same with the reman's salvaged jacket). You CANNOT make it green. That bugs the **** out of me.
And his sister... I could understand him sticking around until she was found, then perhaps having an option to part ways (to protect his sister). But come on. I NEVER got any hint about her location until suddenly. "Oh, she's on the planet below. I'll get her some medical aid, then take her to the floatilla where she will be safe." and I'm left going "Wait, when the hell did they mention she was found?" And we beam down (I'm expecting a short mission to get her back to the ship) and nothing.
But, I can agree with being able to remove him, simply from the fact of being able to have pure-reman crews or whatnot. I don't see how he makes it "The legacy of Tovan!" but I can UNDERSTAND people being annoyed with him.
You mean the "elaborate revenge plot" where he forces you to free 2 (utterly disgraced) captured klingons because they are "our friends and allies" with the risk of the entire mission getting compromised? Or the next part where he orders you to tell the Reman colonists that the Tal Shiar is about to invade their colony, essentially ruining your Tal Shiar infiltration mission, rather than sacrificing the Reman scum to gain the opportunity to learn more Tal Shiar secrets like a true Romulan would have done. That would have been a scheme.
the plan was basically:
Tell the Tal Shiar we're here to help subjugate the planet.
Help the Remans instead of attacking them.
Kill any Tal Shiar agents who learn our true motives to protect our cover.
Of course it's a coincidence that the Remans had that Thalaron Bomb ready to wipe out the evidence for you, but hey... I don't recall trying to stop them from setting it off.
But the plan more or less worked. You do end up handing over the Reman leader to Sela but hey... sacrificing him to save your own skin is the Romulan thing amirite?
Besides this is the Republic. Remans are valuable members of society not slaves.
the plan was basically:
Tell the Tal Shiar we're here to help subjugate the planet.
Help the Remans instead of attacking them.
Kill any Tal Shiar agents who learn our true motives to protect our cover.
Of course it's a coincidence that the Remans had that Thalaron Bomb ready to wipe out the evidence for you, but hey... I don't recall trying to stop them from setting it off.
But the plan more or less worked. You do end up handing over the Reman leader to Sela but hey... sacrificing him to save your own skin is the Romulan thing amirite?
Besides this is the Republic. Remans are valuable members of society not slaves.
Also, when did you ever get forced into saving two highly disgraced KDF officers? I aligned fedside and I was never forced into saving anybody that didn't fall under "Save before they get tortured into ratting us out."
And Honestly, since Sela saw you at the conference, I think she had the entire thing plotted out all along and was betting you'd try to help the colonists, allowing her to capture that reman.
Tovan didn't *decide* to help infiltrate the Tal Shiar. In fact, he was against it. Franklin Drake is the one who came up with the plan, and he's human for heaven's sake! Tovan is less Romulan than a human. Hell, none of the Romulans thought of any plans like that. THAT is sad.
These so called "New Romulans" are little more than Bajorans with pointy ears and smooth noses. Real Romulans no longer exist outside of the Tal Shiar, and even they are hardly Romulan in Cryptic's portrayal. They're puppets of the Iconians, something real Romulans would never subject themselves to. But at least the Elachi have a sinister plan--one that Tovan thinks is disgusting. Really, Tovan? You're supposed to be Romulan, and yet you can't see that the Elachi's plan is easily something the old Empire would do?
It's pathetic, and I don't want that TRIBBLE on my ship. Tovan must go.
What people mean when they say "real Romulans" is "Romulans with an insufferable superiority complex." The past thirty years have been nothing but the entire universe including the "real Romulans" spending inordinate amounts of time kicking that superiority complex out of the Romulan race.
The Romulans were devastated by the Dominion War, lost their leadership to Shinzon, spent ten years fighting a civil war, lost their homeworld, spent another twenty years fighting literally everyone (especially each other) with no government beyond the remains of an old colonial committee, until only in the past few years have they barely managed to scrape together a new Empire, and even then, conditions are so awful that, on some worlds, Ferengi can take over a mine and treat every Romulan like his personal property. Now, with Sela gone, even that is about to fall apart.
More than a little of that paragraph above is canon, and existed before STO. Turning that around would pretty much require disregarding or ignoring every single Star Trek-related piece of media that's been released since 2003. I don't think the license owners would appreciate that very much.
If you want to RP "real Romulans" so bad, make some Foundry missions set in the 2360s.
What people mean when they say "real Romulans" is "Romulans with an insufferable superiority complex." The past thirty years have been nothing but the entire universe including the "real Romulans" spending inordinate amounts of time kicking that superiority complex out of the Romulan race.
The Romulans were devastated by the Dominion War, lost their leadership to Shinzon, spent ten years fighting a civil war, lost their homeworld, spent another twenty years fighting literally everyone (especially each other) with no government beyond the remains of an old colonial committee, until only in the past few years have they barely managed to scrape together a new Empire, and even then, conditions are so awful that, on some worlds, Ferengi can take over a mine and treat every Romulan like his personal property. Now, with Sela gone, even that is about to fall apart.
More than a little of that paragraph above is canon, and existed before STO. Turning that around would pretty much require disregarding or ignoring every single Star Trek-related piece of media that's been released since 2003. I don't think the license owners would appreciate that very much.
If you want to RP "real Romulans" so bad, make some Foundry missions set in the 2360s.
No, what people mean when they say "real Romulans" is "a race that devotes itself to schemes and plots in order to keep their otherwise uncontrollable emotions in check." If Romulans gave up their devious ways, they certainly would not be peace-loving and whiny; they would be violent and irrational. They would be pre-Surak Vulcans.
These Romulans may have gone through a lot, but they are hardly reacting the way that real Romulans would. They aren't stabbing each other in the back in bids for power in the new regime. They aren't using underhanded tricks to get their way. They are shocked and appalled by tactics that would have been commonplace not half a century before.
Most of these Romulans are old enough to remember those days. As any anthropologist will tell you, it is extremely rare for even one person to so drastically change their philosophy and way of life, let alone an entire culture. That kind of change takes time and happens through young people that haven't experienced the tragedies, and what they teach to their children, and their children. In a few generations, maybe this new version of the Romulan people would be believable, but considering how long Romulans live that's a long way out yet.
These Romulans may have gone through a lot, but they are hardly reacting the way that real Romulans would. They aren't stabbing each other in the back in bids for power in the new regime. They aren't using underhanded tricks to get their way. They are shocked and appalled by tactics that would have been commonplace not half a century before.
Most of these Romulans are old enough to remember those days. As any anthropologist will tell you, it is extremely rare for even one person to so drastically change their philosophy and way of life, let alone an entire culture. That kind of change takes time and happens through young people that haven't experienced the tragedies, and what they teach to their children, and their children. In a few generations, maybe this new version of the Romulan people would be believable, but considering how long Romulans live that's a long way out yet.
Did I miss the part where it's been a couple hundred years since the destruction of Romulus? I doubt it.
What's so devious about fighting the Tal Shiar? What part of being a freedom fighter screams "Romulan plot" to you? These New Romulans are not Romulans, they're Bajorans.
Sudden changes in the philosophy of an entire culture do not happen. They certainly don't happen in thirty years for a species that lives well into their hundreds.
Well, having just reached level 50 with my Reman toon I can confirm that you're still stuck with Tovan even when there are no more Tovan-specific missions left and you've reached the highest possible rank.
I really, REALLY don't understand why the devs can't give players the OPTION to discharge Tovan.
Again, if you like him then you should be able to keep him, but there's just no logical reason to force players to keep him if they don't want him.
In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
They aren't using underhanded tricks to get their way.
I just sent DOFFs to implant false information in my Starfleet allies' database so that they would retaliate against the Tal Shiar.
They are shocked and appalled by tactics that would have been commonplace not half a century before.
The Rihannsu novels, which are at least semi-canon in this game (given all the references to them), have a Romulan commander becoming so outraged at the senate for doing something FAR less horrible than what the Tal Shiar has done, to the point where she starts a "free Rihannsu" movement to restore honor to the Romulan people.
Romulans keep their emotions in check through Mnhei'sahe, which the TNG Romulans forgot about, hence the backstabing.
As any anthropologist will tell you, it is extremely rare for even one person to so drastically change their philosophy and way of life, let alone an entire culture.
I would be happy if we had an anthropologist here to explain the details of what people go through when their planet is destroyed, but we don't.
Well, having just reached level 50 with my Reman toon I can confirm that you're still stuck with Tovan even when there are no more Tovan-specific missions left and you've reached the highest possible rank.
I really, REALLY don't understand why the devs can't give players the OPTION to discharge Tovan.
Again, if you like him then you should be able to keep him, but there's just no logical reason to force players to keep him if they don't want him.
I'd be happy if they'd just let us rename him ffs. You know, like every other boff.
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
No, what people mean when they say "real Romulans" is "a race that devotes itself to schemes and plots in order to keep their otherwise uncontrollable emotions in check." If Romulans gave up their devious ways, they certainly would not be peace-loving and whiny; they would be violent and irrational. They would be pre-Surak Vulcans.
These Romulans may have gone through a lot, but they are hardly reacting the way that real Romulans would. They aren't stabbing each other in the back in bids for power in the new regime. They aren't using underhanded tricks to get their way. They are shocked and appalled by tactics that would have been commonplace not half a century before.
Most of these Romulans are old enough to remember those days. As any anthropologist will tell you, it is extremely rare for even one person to so drastically change their philosophy and way of life, let alone an entire culture. That kind of change takes time and happens through young people that haven't experienced the tragedies, and what they teach to their children, and their children. In a few generations, maybe this new version of the Romulan people would be believable, but considering how long Romulans live that's a long way out yet.
The Reunification movement has been simmering in the shadows for over 100 years. The destruction of Romulus merely brought it to a boil. It's not new... It may not even be supported by the majority of the Romulan people. But it's here, and it's been brought to the center of the galactic stage.
I think you're greatly overstating the desire of Romulans to use treachery. Sure they're more willign to use it than most races, but they only use it when they have a reason to. Back-stabbing your allies is only cool if you get something out of it.
The Reunification movement has been simmering in the shadows for over 100 years. The destruction of Romulus merely brought it to a boil. It's not new... It may not even be supported by the majority of the Romulan people. But it's here, and it's been brought to the center of the galactic stage.
I think you're greatly overstating the desire of Romulans to use treachery. Sure they're more willign to use it than most races, but they only use it when they have a reason to. Back-stabbing your allies is only cool if you get something out of it.
Well, that's your opinion. I think that you (and Cryptic) are greatly overstating the desire of Romulans to do a complete 180 on their pre-established cultural practices.
Would really, really like a Cryptic response outlining their reasons for taking choice out of the equation with our early Boffs. Can't dismiss Tovan, can't trade the others (aka, can't train them properly). Not to mention why they decided to stick so many unique clothing options on them.
Well, that's your opinion. I think that you (and Cryptic) are greatly overstating the desire of Romulans to do a complete 180 on their pre-established cultural practices.
that's just it.... this ISN'T a complete change. It's more of a recentering.
Let's hope there's an option to become a Tal Shiar operative at level 50 at some point in the near future. Meaning, you stay as a Fed/Rommie or KDF Rommie, but you become an operative. Eventually at some point along this Tal Shiar storyline, we should get the option to throw Tovan out of the airlock. Maybe as part of a mission where we interrogate him for the Tal Shiar and he refuses to cooperate?
+1 i want to be a tal shiar!!!!!!!! personaly atm i stuck a tal shiar suit set , thatepic dual cape set from the lvl 40 rankup and after sela dissappered i called myself empress xD
Personally, and for my character, I don't want to be Tal Shiar. They're beyond redemption at this point, and though my character disliked them before the story started, now he's really out for their blood. However, my character is a veteran of the Imperial military, fought in the Dominion War, and takes the oath he swore to defend the Empire very seriously. Right now the Tal Shiar and their alien masters are the greatest threat to the Empire that he can see, and so he's working with D'tan's forces as they currently offer his best chance of defeating them. Once they're defeated though, he has no desire to join D'tan's Republic. Joining them would mean breaching his military oath to the Praetor and the Empire, and he can't bring himself to do that, after a lifetime's service.
To cut a long story short, I'd love to see some more options included for Loyalist Romulan characters, particularly costume sets, and in a perfect world, a Rator III social hub.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
If you want to RP "real Romulans" so bad, make some Foundry missions set in the 2360s.
I... I think I love you. *wipes at tear*
That said, I do understand where the OP is coming from. He wants to tell his own story with his character, and until now, STO has let people do that. But other people have been complaining about the dearth of Official Story Content. (Some of them don't consider the Foundry stuff anything more than fanfiction, and/or feel that an MMO's producers have an obligation to put out some amount of New Stuff - including story - to keep the game fresh and justify the money we pay.)
And now, after much waiting, we have that! except... it seems that Cryptic and/or PWE has decided that along with the high production values, they're going to make it highly scripted as well. (Voice acting pretty much requires this, especially if you can't afford a lot of it, to allow for many possible choices or paths.) They've taken a page, or several, from SW:TOR, where each class has A Story, and you will follow it. You have a little wiggle room, and get to choose the tone of your responses and make some decisions that have consequences later on, but you don't get to say (e.g.) "I don't want my Trooper to be in Havoc Squad at all, I want them to _____." Doesn't work that way.
So, yeah. They're telling a story, that they've got all planned out, and they're telling it at us harder than they ever have before ... with the possible exception of one of the most reviled missions in the whole game, "Divide et Impera". Take a look at how STO players traditionally react to that infamous bit of railroading and being forced to hold the Idiot Ball, and tell me that this response to LoR's storyline is really at all surprising?
Personally, and for my character, I don't want to be Tal Shiar. They're beyond redemption at this point, and though my character disliked them before the story started, now he's really out for their blood. However, my character is a veteran of the Imperial military, fought in the Dominion War, and takes the oath he swore to defend the Empire very seriously. Right now the Tal Shiar and their alien masters are the greatest threat to the Empire that he can see, and so he's working with D'tan's forces as they currently offer his best chance of defeating them. Once they're defeated though, he has no desire to join D'tan's Republic. Joining them would mean breaching his military oath to the Praetor and the Empire, and he can't bring himself to do that, after a lifetime's service.
To cut a long story short, I'd love to see some more options included for Loyalist Romulan characters, particularly costume sets, and in a perfect world, a Rator III social hub.
We have similar backstory
My main Romulan Dahvok was a Ulhan security officer on the Warbird D'vek was centurion on.
These days im sub admiral and he is still a centurion.
but HE is my friend
Tovan is just some idiot kid who has no military discipline
That said, I do understand where the OP is coming from. He wants to tell his own story with his character, and until now, STO has let people do that. But other people have been complaining about the dearth of Official Story Content. (Some of them don't consider the Foundry stuff anything more than fanfiction, and/or feel that an MMO's producers have an obligation to put out some amount of New Stuff - including story - to keep the game fresh and justify the money we pay.)
And now, after much waiting, we have that! except... it seems that Cryptic and/or PWE has decided that along with the high production values, they're going to make it highly scripted as well. (Voice acting pretty much requires this, especially if you can't afford a lot of it, to allow for many possible choices or paths.) They've taken a page, or several, from SW:TOR, where each class has A Story, and you will follow it. You have a little wiggle room, and get to choose the tone of your responses and make some decisions that have consequences later on, but you don't get to say (e.g.) "I don't want my Trooper to be in Havoc Squad at all, I want them to _____." Doesn't work that way.
So, yeah. They're telling a story, that they've got all planned out, and they're telling it at us harder than they ever have before ... with the possible exception of one of the most reviled missions in the whole game, "Divide et Impera". Take a look at how STO players traditionally react to that infamous bit of railroading and being forced to hold the Idiot Ball, and tell me that this response to LoR's storyline is really at all surprising?
Urge... to.... kill.... 'Zelle'.... rising....
But yeah... I saw it coming the first time, but.... no.... seeing it coming didn't help. Zelle supposedly escaped onto a Romulan ship loyal to the empress so maybe RR players will eventually get a chance to hunt her down? (Or maybe the TalShiar already dissected her.)
But yeah, this is a game that really has no branching in the big picture at all. The plot goes from point A to point B and maybe squiggles a little as it goes. Honestly the alliance choice in the RR story is the first time the game has had a meaningful decision like that.
I think he's personally fine myself. I like the new system of having an BOFF talk & communicate back to me. Hoping for me in the future.
I think people will complain about anything if they can. This game is F2P. Got over yourself & move on.
You know, there's another game that's right up your alley if this is your preference. Heck, it's even based on a bigger IP than this one. You get zero input into who your companions are or how you meet them or what you even do with them.
How about this? You get over people making a valid (if shortsighted) complaint over a game that calls itself interactive basically removing the core interactivity from its gameplay for this particular "faction". What the heck does free to play have to do with any of that? I can name two dozen (that's twenty four) free to play games that DON'T do that so what's a game's financial model have to do with its story delivery method, hmm?
The most annoying feature of Tovan is how heavy handed he is with his opinion. I know that they are trying to tell a certain kind of story but Tovan comes off as railroading me through a story than me playing through a chapter in my characters life.
I mean sure I was irked that I didn't have much say over Hiven or the Reman chick. But at least they are silent. Tovan is a very vocal character and he just grates my nerves.
I'm pushing him out of an airlock the first chance I get.
Sadly, you will never get that opportunity. You're stuck with Tovan. You'll have to carry him around for the rest of your character's life.
Ugh. I swear, every conversation is Tovan saying something about how much he hates the Tal Shiar or finding his sister, and then two options on how you want to agree with him. Tovan is nothing more than an exceptionally heavy handed plot device, who makes all the decisions for your character, deteremining not only your actions, but your character's personality as well. I wish there was an option to shovee him out an airlock, but when you can't even modify his appearance, what do you expect?
You know, they come SO close to giving the much desired 'Shut up, Tovan' response. In the 'join the advance force' mission when he whines about doing something that's just like Virinat, the only response you can give is a nice way of telling him to shut his piehole ("Your objections are noted"). But it doesn't have that visceral satisfaction that the real response would have.
stealth, I don't know how long you've been playing this genre of game but this is par for the course. Developers often "borrow" elements from other successful (artistically if not financially) games for their expansions. For example, **** Trials of Atlantis = EverQuest Planes of Power in that the game did a complete 180 from what it had previously done/been in order to chase a current (at the time) trend (content gated by flags/keys that required great effort to obtain). EverQuest Seeds of Destruction based its core feature on something from the first Guild Wars, completely flying in the face of what the game's previous core design philosophy (forced socialization) had been. This is just Cryptic chasing a recent trend (a trend that, at least with regard to the voicing focus, isn't recent since EverQuest 2 tried to do it with its initial release almost ten years ago, before the costs chased them away from that idea). The problem I have with it is its length. What should be a tutorial phase type of deal, extends all the way to Subcommander, just about (or whenever Cloaked Intentions starts).
I don't much mind being railroaded (well, I do but I don't expect literature from MMO writers. I regard them in the same vein as Stephen King regards Stephanie Meyer) but removing Tovan's invincibility after the main Romulan story merges with the existing story (Cloaked Intentions, I think is where that happens) would be awesome. KDF side has something similar (with Ch'Grar or whatever his name is) but you can ditch him if he doesn't fit your concept. My KDF toons are Orions who agree wholeheartedly with Melani D'ian so their bridge crews are completely comprised of Orions. Klingon BO don't fit. I don't even mind Satra and Veril or even Hiven but that's because if I do mind them, I can get rid of them. Whoever equated Tovan to Carth Onasi or Corso Riggs was right on the money.
I have nothing against Tovan, but i think we should have either option to rename him, or dismiss him.
Not because he's awful, but because he's permanently occupying one BOFF slot.
Please don't necro old threads. If a thread has not had a reply in a month, we're not supposed to post in it (PWE's rule, shared by many internet forum sites).
Comments
Khev reads Pez instructions
This! A thousand times this!
Tovan isn't a Romulan, he is a Bajoran vedek who has infiltrated my ship.:mad:
You mean the "elaborate revenge plot" where he forces you to free 2 (utterly disgraced) captured klingons because they are "our friends and allies" with the risk of the entire mission getting compromised? Or the next part where he orders you to tell the Reman colonists that the Tal Shiar is about to invade their colony, essentially ruining your Tal Shiar infiltration mission, rather than sacrificing the Reman scum to gain the opportunity to learn more Tal Shiar secrets like a true Romulan would have done. That would have been a scheme.
Aid in leading the Romulan Star Empire back to its former greatness.
Join the Romulan Praetorian Guard and teach those epohh loving hippies what it means to be a true Romulan!
What REALLY bugged me was the fact my lib borg reman boff (who I slotted as my tac officer on space and ground) talked with tovan's voice. Then the entire setup glitched and for example, the scene where you and Tovan board the Keldon? It was me and Satra. who was talking in Tovan's voice. This happened SEVERAL times.
That made me hate him more then another else. That and his normal outfit top? Doesn't even have a full color select. (Same with the reman's salvaged jacket). You CANNOT make it green. That bugs the **** out of me.
And his sister... I could understand him sticking around until she was found, then perhaps having an option to part ways (to protect his sister). But come on. I NEVER got any hint about her location until suddenly. "Oh, she's on the planet below. I'll get her some medical aid, then take her to the floatilla where she will be safe." and I'm left going "Wait, when the hell did they mention she was found?" And we beam down (I'm expecting a short mission to get her back to the ship) and nothing.
But, I can agree with being able to remove him, simply from the fact of being able to have pure-reman crews or whatnot. I don't see how he makes it "The legacy of Tovan!" but I can UNDERSTAND people being annoyed with him.
Tell the Tal Shiar we're here to help subjugate the planet.
Help the Remans instead of attacking them.
Kill any Tal Shiar agents who learn our true motives to protect our cover.
Of course it's a coincidence that the Remans had that Thalaron Bomb ready to wipe out the evidence for you, but hey... I don't recall trying to stop them from setting it off.
But the plan more or less worked. You do end up handing over the Reman leader to Sela but hey... sacrificing him to save your own skin is the Romulan thing amirite?
Besides this is the Republic. Remans are valuable members of society not slaves.
My character Tsin'xing
Also, when did you ever get forced into saving two highly disgraced KDF officers? I aligned fedside and I was never forced into saving anybody that didn't fall under "Save before they get tortured into ratting us out."
And Honestly, since Sela saw you at the conference, I think she had the entire thing plotted out all along and was betting you'd try to help the colonists, allowing her to capture that reman.
These so called "New Romulans" are little more than Bajorans with pointy ears and smooth noses. Real Romulans no longer exist outside of the Tal Shiar, and even they are hardly Romulan in Cryptic's portrayal. They're puppets of the Iconians, something real Romulans would never subject themselves to. But at least the Elachi have a sinister plan--one that Tovan thinks is disgusting. Really, Tovan? You're supposed to be Romulan, and yet you can't see that the Elachi's plan is easily something the old Empire would do?
It's pathetic, and I don't want that TRIBBLE on my ship. Tovan must go.
i actually felt bad for a kim in the show
THIS IS 100% CORRECT.
What people mean when they say "real Romulans" is "Romulans with an insufferable superiority complex." The past thirty years have been nothing but the entire universe including the "real Romulans" spending inordinate amounts of time kicking that superiority complex out of the Romulan race.
The Romulans were devastated by the Dominion War, lost their leadership to Shinzon, spent ten years fighting a civil war, lost their homeworld, spent another twenty years fighting literally everyone (especially each other) with no government beyond the remains of an old colonial committee, until only in the past few years have they barely managed to scrape together a new Empire, and even then, conditions are so awful that, on some worlds, Ferengi can take over a mine and treat every Romulan like his personal property. Now, with Sela gone, even that is about to fall apart.
More than a little of that paragraph above is canon, and existed before STO. Turning that around would pretty much require disregarding or ignoring every single Star Trek-related piece of media that's been released since 2003. I don't think the license owners would appreciate that very much.
If you want to RP "real Romulans" so bad, make some Foundry missions set in the 2360s.
No, what people mean when they say "real Romulans" is "a race that devotes itself to schemes and plots in order to keep their otherwise uncontrollable emotions in check." If Romulans gave up their devious ways, they certainly would not be peace-loving and whiny; they would be violent and irrational. They would be pre-Surak Vulcans.
These Romulans may have gone through a lot, but they are hardly reacting the way that real Romulans would. They aren't stabbing each other in the back in bids for power in the new regime. They aren't using underhanded tricks to get their way. They are shocked and appalled by tactics that would have been commonplace not half a century before.
Most of these Romulans are old enough to remember those days. As any anthropologist will tell you, it is extremely rare for even one person to so drastically change their philosophy and way of life, let alone an entire culture. That kind of change takes time and happens through young people that haven't experienced the tragedies, and what they teach to their children, and their children. In a few generations, maybe this new version of the Romulan people would be believable, but considering how long Romulans live that's a long way out yet.
So taking on the Tal Shiar, Sela, Hakeev, isn't?
Read the missions in the story...
Did I miss the part where it's been a couple hundred years since the destruction of Romulus? I doubt it.
What's so devious about fighting the Tal Shiar? What part of being a freedom fighter screams "Romulan plot" to you? These New Romulans are not Romulans, they're Bajorans.
Sudden changes in the philosophy of an entire culture do not happen. They certainly don't happen in thirty years for a species that lives well into their hundreds.
I really, REALLY don't understand why the devs can't give players the OPTION to discharge Tovan.
Again, if you like him then you should be able to keep him, but there's just no logical reason to force players to keep him if they don't want him.
Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
I just sent DOFFs to implant false information in my Starfleet allies' database so that they would retaliate against the Tal Shiar.
The Rihannsu novels, which are at least semi-canon in this game (given all the references to them), have a Romulan commander becoming so outraged at the senate for doing something FAR less horrible than what the Tal Shiar has done, to the point where she starts a "free Rihannsu" movement to restore honor to the Romulan people.
Romulans keep their emotions in check through Mnhei'sahe, which the TNG Romulans forgot about, hence the backstabing.
I would be happy if we had an anthropologist here to explain the details of what people go through when their planet is destroyed, but we don't.
But throwing people out of an airlock gets a big plus from me.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
http://www.elitedefensestarfleet.com
I'd be happy if they'd just let us rename him ffs. You know, like every other boff.
We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
I think you're greatly overstating the desire of Romulans to use treachery. Sure they're more willign to use it than most races, but they only use it when they have a reason to. Back-stabbing your allies is only cool if you get something out of it.
My character Tsin'xing
I guess you are in luck.
You screwed up, Cryptic. I'd like to know why.
My character Tsin'xing
+1 i want to be a tal shiar!!!!!!!! personaly atm i stuck a tal shiar suit set , thatepic dual cape set from the lvl 40 rankup and after sela dissappered i called myself empress xD
To cut a long story short, I'd love to see some more options included for Loyalist Romulan characters, particularly costume sets, and in a perfect world, a Rator III social hub.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
I... I think I love you. *wipes at tear*
That said, I do understand where the OP is coming from. He wants to tell his own story with his character, and until now, STO has let people do that. But other people have been complaining about the dearth of Official Story Content. (Some of them don't consider the Foundry stuff anything more than fanfiction, and/or feel that an MMO's producers have an obligation to put out some amount of New Stuff - including story - to keep the game fresh and justify the money we pay.)
And now, after much waiting, we have that! except... it seems that Cryptic and/or PWE has decided that along with the high production values, they're going to make it highly scripted as well. (Voice acting pretty much requires this, especially if you can't afford a lot of it, to allow for many possible choices or paths.) They've taken a page, or several, from SW:TOR, where each class has A Story, and you will follow it. You have a little wiggle room, and get to choose the tone of your responses and make some decisions that have consequences later on, but you don't get to say (e.g.) "I don't want my Trooper to be in Havoc Squad at all, I want them to _____." Doesn't work that way.
So, yeah. They're telling a story, that they've got all planned out, and they're telling it at us harder than they ever have before ... with the possible exception of one of the most reviled missions in the whole game, "Divide et Impera". Take a look at how STO players traditionally react to that infamous bit of railroading and being forced to hold the Idiot Ball, and tell me that this response to LoR's storyline is really at all surprising?
We have similar backstory
My main Romulan Dahvok was a Ulhan security officer on the Warbird D'vek was centurion on.
These days im sub admiral and he is still a centurion.
but HE is my friend
Tovan is just some idiot kid who has no military discipline
But yeah... I saw it coming the first time, but.... no.... seeing it coming didn't help. Zelle supposedly escaped onto a Romulan ship loyal to the empress so maybe RR players will eventually get a chance to hunt her down? (Or maybe the TalShiar already dissected her.)
But yeah, this is a game that really has no branching in the big picture at all. The plot goes from point A to point B and maybe squiggles a little as it goes. Honestly the alliance choice in the RR story is the first time the game has had a meaningful decision like that.
My character Tsin'xing
You know, there's another game that's right up your alley if this is your preference. Heck, it's even based on a bigger IP than this one. You get zero input into who your companions are or how you meet them or what you even do with them.
How about this? You get over people making a valid (if shortsighted) complaint over a game that calls itself interactive basically removing the core interactivity from its gameplay for this particular "faction". What the heck does free to play have to do with any of that? I can name two dozen (that's twenty four) free to play games that DON'T do that so what's a game's financial model have to do with its story delivery method, hmm?
Sadly, you will never get that opportunity. You're stuck with Tovan. You'll have to carry him around for the rest of your character's life.
Kinda like herpes.
You know, they come SO close to giving the much desired 'Shut up, Tovan' response. In the 'join the advance force' mission when he whines about doing something that's just like Virinat, the only response you can give is a nice way of telling him to shut his piehole ("Your objections are noted"). But it doesn't have that visceral satisfaction that the real response would have.
stealth, I don't know how long you've been playing this genre of game but this is par for the course. Developers often "borrow" elements from other successful (artistically if not financially) games for their expansions. For example, **** Trials of Atlantis = EverQuest Planes of Power in that the game did a complete 180 from what it had previously done/been in order to chase a current (at the time) trend (content gated by flags/keys that required great effort to obtain). EverQuest Seeds of Destruction based its core feature on something from the first Guild Wars, completely flying in the face of what the game's previous core design philosophy (forced socialization) had been. This is just Cryptic chasing a recent trend (a trend that, at least with regard to the voicing focus, isn't recent since EverQuest 2 tried to do it with its initial release almost ten years ago, before the costs chased them away from that idea). The problem I have with it is its length. What should be a tutorial phase type of deal, extends all the way to Subcommander, just about (or whenever Cloaked Intentions starts).
I don't much mind being railroaded (well, I do but I don't expect literature from MMO writers. I regard them in the same vein as Stephen King regards Stephanie Meyer) but removing Tovan's invincibility after the main Romulan story merges with the existing story (Cloaked Intentions, I think is where that happens) would be awesome. KDF side has something similar (with Ch'Grar or whatever his name is) but you can ditch him if he doesn't fit your concept. My KDF toons are Orions who agree wholeheartedly with Melani D'ian so their bridge crews are completely comprised of Orions. Klingon BO don't fit. I don't even mind Satra and Veril or even Hiven but that's because if I do mind them, I can get rid of them. Whoever equated Tovan to Carth Onasi or Corso Riggs was right on the money.
Not because he's awful, but because he's permanently occupying one BOFF slot.
There are at least two threads on the same topic which have had replies less than a month ago:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=855931
and
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=842801