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Please, PLEASE let me shove Tovan Khev out of an airlock!

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    malakim0malakim0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    In part I have to agree. I'm not liking him much either.

    For me though, he's not a big part of my crew. I have other officers for every other function. Yes he takes up a slot, but at this point I have plenty of slots, so I don't mind keeping him somewhere in the background. Although yes, it's a bit off-putting that every Romulan capatin has a Tovan. I haven't tried changing his name at all, but that would be a good first step in the right direction.

    All that being said, the story is pretty good - I hope that I'll eventually reunite him with his sister.
    I'm begging you, Cryptic. Please let me discharge Tovan. I don't care if it screws up the story you're telling for me (not MY story, YOUR story. Which is full of deus ex machina and false choices, both of which make it hard to like even then). I don't care about his VO work. I don't care that he's a free purple boff. I don't care that I can change his look, or even his name.
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    stealthriderstealthrider Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    You people just don't get it.

    I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE if you like Tovan. I do NOT, but I'm forced to keep him anyway. I don't want him in my away team, but he ends up there anyway. I don't want him talking to me during missions. I don't want him to exist on my crew at all. But I can't get rid of him.

    Stop trying to convince me to like him. It will never happen. The story is garbage, a disjointed mess full of tropes and ridiculousness (borg walker? Seriously?), but I couldn't care less about that. What I care about is that Cryptic took the choice out of my hands for my boffs, and even thoguh I can get rid of the others, I cannot get rid of Tovan.

    It's not even about who he is as a character. He could be the greatest sidekick ever written, absolutely perfect in every way, and it wouldn't matter. What matters is there is no CHOICE but to keep him around.
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    kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    griged32 wrote: »
    I quite like the BOFF system the Roms get - every member of my crew is 'unique' (after heavy customization and renaming anyway) and has a background. A background I flesh out in the biography section. Granted, they each have the same 'starting' point... but from the Reman teenager to the overweight Romulan scientist you get off the colony station, the only thing you can't 'change' about these boffs is gender and species - outside of that the look, uniform - EVERYTHING! Is completely customizable

    Even Tovan (to a limited extent) is changeable. His face, hair, uniform, build - if he bugs you that much. Make him really fat or really stupid looking - if nothing else it'll give you something to laugh about lol

    The story about our boffs is that they're all refugees - we aren't the Fed's or the Klingons... we're a rag-tag bunch of rebels fighting 'the man' (tal shiar) now what's not awesome about that? Yeah, we all GET our Boffs the same way - we even get our SHIPS the same - but they ARE customizable. The original customizable system isn't GONE it's just become MORE in depth. We've actually got a REASON to give a damn about these people wandering around our ships - they aren't just batteries anymore

    Here's hoping the Feds and the Klingons get the same treatment... I'm not saying each faction needs a Tovan (don't go nuclear on me here) but the starting crew 'joining' the ship as the story goes on... that'd be really cool :) a 'starting place' (if you will) that gives you something to write about them

    What's wrong with that?

    So how do I make my all-female bridge crew?
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    pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I really, really, REALLY do not understand why the devs refuse to give us the OPTION of getting rid of Tovan from the beginning.

    If you like the guy, great! You can keep him and have the voice overs and the additional story elements that transform YOUR Romulan story into the "Legacy of Tovan."

    However, for those of us who dislike the Tovan character we should be able to immediately discharge him after the first mission ... then any mission dialogue that would come out of Tovan's mouth can just be plain text (text that doesn't include the Tovan story elements).

    It's not like the coding for that is brain surgery ... if there is no Tovan then do not use Tovan voiceover, insert another BOff's face if there is a pop-up screen, and use "option B" text that doesn't include Tovan story element.

    Even if players don't have the option of getting rid of Tovan (and we SHOULD), the current way that Tovan is implemented in the game is just TERRIBLE. If I don't select Tovan as an away team member then on ground missions his voice comes out of the mouth of another character!

    Why???

    I've also been seeing lame pop-up communication windows when Tovan is speaking where it is clearly Tovan's voice, but the head of a blonde human male pop's up on screen (looks a bit like an ugly Luke Skywalker) and the communication window says his name is "Luis" when it's clearly supposed to be Tovan.

    What the heck is THAT about???

    The solution is simple: Give players the OPTION of getting rid of Tovan and then we don't have to deal with all the lame bugs that are specifically tied to Tovan and we have the option of playing OUR Romulan story and NOT the Legacy of Tovan.
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
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    pweistheworstpweistheworst Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    kiralyn wrote: »
    So how do I make my all-female bridge crew?

    Simple: You cannot. Because the devs decided you don't deserve the same control over YOUR crew as FED and KDF players have enjoyed since day one.

    Before LOR launched I was planning to have two new toons:

    1) A female Romulan with an all-female Romulan bridge crew.

    2) A male Reman with an all-Reman bridge crew.

    This level of customization has existed from day one with the FED toons and since the day that KDF toons were added.

    Unfortunately, someone at Cryptic had the bright idea that forcing players to have a specific BOff with a per-determined story of his own that you have ZERO control over was a good idea.

    I appreciate that the devs are constantly trying new things to improve STO -- that is something EVERY player should support.

    However, one of the BIGGEST things that so many Trek fans love about STO is that we have CONTROL over so much and can create our own little version of our fantasy personality (or personalities) in the Trek universe. Everything about the way the Tovan BOff is currently implemented is about taking that control away from us.

    When I watch a Trek TV episode or a movie I expect that I'm watching a story about someone else. When we play STO we have the expectation that we're living OUR story in the Trek universe.

    Give us the option to discharge Tovan already!
    In the immortal words of Captain Sisko: "It may not be what you believe, but that doesn't make it wrong."

    Don't believe the lies in this forum. I am NOT an ARC user. I play STO on Steam or not at all.
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    chris919ukchris919uk Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    The Dark Side ending in KoToR 1 where if you play as a dark side woman who goes through the love arc, you get to murder Carth at the end, made the whole process worthwhile.

    Yeah that was just funny, payback for all that whining you had to put up with.:D

    Seriously though I was thinking of replacing Tovan with a Gorn Tac Officer, if I do that is my Gorn going to start speaking with Tovan's disembodied voice? ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    chris919uk wrote: »
    Yeah that was just funny, payback for all that whining you had to put up with.:D

    Seriously though I was thinking of replacing Tovan with a Gorn Tac Officer, if I do that is my Gorn going to start speaking with Tovan's disembodied voice? ;)
    On the Nimbus arc on my Fed character, my (female) Vulcan first officer has been spouting his lines, despite the fact that my captain is not a member of the Romulan Republic, and does not even have Tovan on my crew... so it is entirely likely.
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    lostusthornlostusthorn Member Posts: 844
    edited May 2013
    The real problem with Tovan is not that you can't discharge him out of an airlock. It is that he even shows up in dialogs after been removed from active slots after finishing the romulan story. He is like a cancer that won't go away.
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    trekkietravistrekkietravis Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I may be in the minority, but I ❤ Tovan!
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Let's hope there's an option to become a Tal Shiar operative at level 50 at some point in the near future. Meaning, you stay as a Fed/Rommie or KDF Rommie, but you become an operative. Eventually at some point along this Tal Shiar storyline, we should get the option to throw Tovan out of the airlock. Maybe as part of a mission where we interrogate him for the Tal Shiar and he refuses to cooperate?
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
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    chris919ukchris919uk Member Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    On the Nimbus arc on my Fed character, my (female) Vulcan first officer has been spouting his lines, despite the fact that my captain is not a member of the Romulan Republic, and does not even have Tovan on my crew... so it is entirely likely.

    Wow. :D Thats just too weird, shapeshifting multidimensional Tovan perhaps.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon, taH pagh, taH be"
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    joebobjimstevejoebobjimsteve Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My god people will find ANYTHING to complain about... It's a game, get over yourself.

    As for Toven, I just outfitted him in a Tal Shiar uniform for the lawl faction of it lol.
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    rylanadionysisrylanadionysis Member Posts: 3,359 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Shut up Tovan, i WANT to join the Tal Shiar. Seriously.
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    catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    My god people will find ANYTHING to complain about... It's a game, get over yourself.

    As for Toven, I just outfitted him in a Tal Shiar uniform for the lawl faction of it lol.
    And yet here you are....complaining about somethign even less....someone's opinion. Why don't you take your own advice if you find complaints so irritating?

    Personally I find the little imp Tovan to be one of themajor hurdles to my enjoyment of the Romulan faction.
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    valenn1valenn1 Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I like Tovan... (and i don't want to joint the Tal Shiar).
    Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
    unfortunately:

    NOT LOYAL ENOUGH!!!
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    sosolidshoesosolidshoe Member Posts: 174 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    valenn1 wrote: »
    I like Tovan... (and i don't want to joint the Tal Shiar).

    Whereas I think Tovan is a whingy wee gimp who I'd like to cut up into little bits and feed to J'mpok's targs(and joining the Tal Shiar would be better than this indentured servitude to D'Tosser and his gang of 'shroom-addled hippies).

    Seriously, I have to add my own sarcastic tone in my head to 90% of the guff Tovan forces my character to spout about the big bad nasty-wasty Tal Shiar who're just meanies and totes unfair and they smell boo hoo hoo. The population of the Romulan Republic makes bloody Neelix look devious and sinister by comparison, it's pathetic.

    We are PWE. Your forums and game accounts will be added to our own. Your community will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
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    aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I dont hate the guy, but I do hate not having the option to get rid of him. If I'm stuck with him permanently then he shouldn't take up a boff slot.

    This, a thousand times over. Once the LoR story arc is completed, I should either be able to send Tovan packing to annoy someone else with his endless self-important angst or get a free Boff slot to compensate for the space I'm forced to waste letting him hang around the ship's bar while the rest of my crew gets on with it.

    To be sure, I don't outright hate him...but the idea of eventually listening to him demand that everything be all about him for multiple characters is cringe-worthy in my view. Yes, we get that you hate the Tal Shiar and can't shut up about it...but look, I'll even give you my starter Warbird if you'll take it and go away never to darken my ship's bulkheads again. You can even hav whatsisname's helmet and that painting- just go away once we're running the KDF's errands. :D
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    crusty8maccrusty8mac Member Posts: 1,381 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I've got no problem with Tovan, the storyline, VO, or any of the other stuff. But once he isn't part of the story anymore, that BOff is gone.

    It would be nice to have more choice as to who your early BOs are, but I understand the limitations involved. The ones I don't like will be put out to pasture. If I lose some costume options because of that - that will TRIBBLE me off a little.
    __________________________________
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I must be one of the only ones who isn't bothered by Tovan. :-/

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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    stealthriderstealthrider Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gulberat wrote: »
    I must be one of the only ones who isn't bothered by Tovan. :-/

    Would you be bothered if Cryptic took your first uniform slot and made it unchangeable? So no matter what you'd always have one less uniform slot than your other characters, if you didn't like the one they gave you?

    Would you be bothered if they locked one of your weapon slots into an assault weapon? If you like the weapon, you're fine, but if you don't you've only got one other slot?

    How about if they put fluff items in your inventory that you couldn't discard, sell or put in your bank? Or if they took part of your HUD and made it immovable? Or took your primary quickslot bar and locked it into a certain configuration?

    The point is Cryptic is taking choice out of the equation.
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    loverofwarsloverofwars Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    i have all four of them and like them kinda wish the others had more speaking parts it would be nice if the others where boosted to purple but rare will do they are quite capable eiher way i like the fact he says things here and there i dont like when his pop ups pop up and decloak my self that bit is quite annoying considering they have advanced cloaks i would of hoped they had managed to scan and talked while still cloaked seems not too advanced then:P

    of course i can always add a few more boff slots if i need to keep the four and add extra ones or better ones
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    samnun77samnun77 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    What did you guys expected from a rushed job to get to he ALMIGHTY dollar? A FULL faction...more like a half assed job to me :D
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    emock3214emock3214 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I knew this was going to be a pproblem as soon as I read the dev blog
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    gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Stealthrider, from a functional standpoint, Tovan does not diminish my ability to play the game effectively as your examples would. I can change Tovan's appearance to suit me, and train him to have whatever skills I like (though you have to do this at the flotilla or New Romulus at this time), so he is not wasting space or taking options from me.

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
    Proudly F2P.  Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
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    reginamala78reginamala78 Member Posts: 4,593 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gulberat wrote: »
    I must be one of the only ones who isn't bothered by Tovan. :-/

    Not alone. I kinda like the guy. He has actual personality which puts him above my other boffs (most I can't even remember their names), and his trait selection is adequate for the bodyguard role. Besides we both want to see TS operatives and sympathizers die ironic and agonizing deaths, so I'm okay with that.
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    stealthriderstealthrider Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gulberat wrote: »
    Stealthrider, from a functional standpoint, Tovan does not diminish my ability to play the game effectively as your examples would. I can change Tovan's appearance to suit me, and train him to have whatever skills I like (though you have to do this at the flotilla or New Romulus at this time), so he is not wasting space or taking options from me.

    He doesn't diminish yours, because you don't mind him.

    I do mind him, so he does diminish mine, he is wasting space and he is taking options from me.
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    kaevwrynnkaevwrynn Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    So, wait. Lemme get this straight. You're complaining about an officer who actively assists Romulan playstyle in space because of his traits, and can be customized? Really? Are you sure you're not just looking for something to complain about?

    I like Tovan. Dude's my wingman. Once I reach 50, he'll be turning my T'Varo into the nightmare of whatever I decide to frag from cloak, since I've set him up with torpedo powers. But let's get serious here... for Romulans, who all have battle cloaks (shuttles aside), how exactly is an officer who boosts the cloak and has Tactical powers 'wasting space'? Give him the right powers and he can make your decloak attack that much more effective. And you get him for free!
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    stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    gulberat wrote: »
    Stealthrider, from a functional standpoint, Tovan does not diminish my ability to play the game effectively as your examples would. I can change Tovan's appearance to suit me, and train him to have whatever skills I like (though you have to do this at the flotilla or New Romulus at this time), so he is not wasting space or taking options from me.

    He's talking about the principle

    Some people dont like that he butts his head into the storyline, is always talking and as mentioned in Stealths example how he takes up a BoFF slot.

    I've been playing WoW for a few years, but i missed out on the whole Cata expansion. From what people have said, the story was more focused on an NPC that helped you kill the bosses instead of the players themselves. In previous expacs it was always like this: The players killed Ragnaros and Kel'Thuzad yay!, the players killed Illidan and Kil'jaeden yay! the players killed Kel'Thuzad (again) and the Lich King yay! But from what people had told me, in Cata it was more like: Thrall killed Deathwing and 25 people helped him...yay Thrall! Thrall was the NPC faction leader...and when the raid boss Deathwing was killed and NPC (Thrall) got more praise then the players did...and that praise came from the other NPCs! and of course people disliked that.

    But why do people dislike that? when focus goes more towards an NPC then the player does it make them feel unimportant? i dunno you guys tell me. For me, the reason i hate the Tozan is because he is always the 'go to guy' in the story. They put way too much emphasis on keeping him involved in the story.

    -Files need to be decrypted? Tozan has the answer

    -You're trapped by yourself in an enemy stronghold and your crew is back on the ship? no problem Tozan can somehow get through to you

    -You're about to engage in combat for the umpteenth time? no problem Tozan will tell you what to do

    -You and your away team composed of 4 BoFF copies of Seven from Voyager are out doing an away mission and you get stuck? no problem...Tozan (while wearing an Andorian mask) knows what to do.

    -You just captured a bad guy now you want to question him? ohh wait, Tovan apparently wants to question him first so he butts in, and starts doing the talking for you...

    TLDR Tozan is overused
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    batdacebatdace Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Some people seem to be missing the point. It's fine if you like Tovan. But for some of us, we don't like him and we have no choice to keep him. In no other part of the game are we made to keep a BOFF that we don't like.

    So it's a change to the game that I don't like or enjoy.

    Tovan as a character is annoying. I don't mind that there is no real opition for me to kinda be wisha washy about supporting the RR. But Tovan ram rods my support and makes trying to sypmathatize with the IR impossible. He interjects when I honestly don't need his advice.

    The function he serves I wish I could assign to someone else. He even pops up when logically my first officer should be talking to me.

    In a game that is otherwise 100% customizeable this is off putting and distracting. It takes away from the Romulan experience for me.

    The advantage of my Federation and Klingong character is that I feel like my crew is my crew and that we are having adventures. I picked who is on my crew and I have a say on who leaves and when. When I play my Fed or KDF character I feel like I'm in control.

    I don't have that same feeling when playing Romulan. Tovan is constantly needling me to do what he feels I should be doing. Being in the RR doesn't feel like an organic choice for me. Instead I feel like Im there to faciliate Tovan's story.

    They could make Tovan the most kickass BOFF ever. It still doesn't change that I don't like his personality and I want him off my ship. On both my other characters I still play with the BOFFs that were first given to me. They are apart of my family to me. It's not about the power level that Tovan brings to the table. It's about his personality which I don't like. It's about a lack of options, which I don't like.

    Love him all you want, but for those of us that don't like him we should have been given the choice to get rid of him. I don't think we are asking to much to be given the ability to control our bridge crew.
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