I apologize. Now I understand. I guess I do jump to conclusions, and I probably should have read the otheer posts you had made on the subject. Sorry Again.
We all make mistakes, it takes bravery and honor to admit them. It is all good, keep on Trekkin'
I think the message ran much deeper than that. Kirk (and Spock) wrestled with whether or not to kill the bad guy instead of giving him a trial. He struggled with whether or not it was okay to break the fundamental principles of the Federation if the bad guy was really bad.
No matter what your opinion is on those issues, that is a very overt allegory to some current issues in today's world.
Yes, there were many deep issues discussed in Into Darkness.
i think ruined is too strong. there are things i dont like about new trek but into darkness was the most badass movie i have seen in a long time. there is nothing wrong with new trek or old. just have to take some of the issues with a grain of salt and enjoy the ride. but saying that if you have ever read star trek books you will see where alot of JJ materials come from especially for into darkness
Section 31Lane/Jeffjr/Varek @jeffjr USS Stadi/USS Grendel/USS AshigaruDreadnought Class Refit / Avenger Class Refit/Rhode Island Class Refit"With your shield or on it"/"Mors venit ad omnes."/"One with courage is a majority"https://www.youtube.com/@jeffjr84
Chekov shown as a teeny bopper with a stupid accent
Sulu is the wrong nationality and shown as a complete moron
Scotty treated as comic relief and wrong accent
kirk is brutal sexist JERK with Iq of a cheese sandwich
Spock is muirderous sex maniac who is sexually harrassing a student
Uhura is shown as a TRIBBLE
mc coy is shown as incompetent , negligent and criminal
pike is shown as insane
they kill billions of people for no reason
play fast and loose with canon
mount rapid fire cannons on enterprise
engineering is a pumping station
Chekov WAS a teeny bopper with a "stupid accent"
Sulu's the wrong nationality? What about Khan being white?
Scotty's always been comic relief, and the Scottish accent is actually more accurate from Simon Pegg than from Doohan
No comment
Again, no comment
Oh yes, please tell me how exactly Uhura is a "TRIBBLE", I'd love to hear it
I fail to see how McCoy is represented as incompetent or criminal
Pike is far from insane
It's called an alternate universe, might wanna check that out some time
Into Darkness was a terrible re-hashing and creatively bankrupt film (courtesy of Paramount moreso than Abrams, as they have the authority to override any creative decisions made by the writers), but everything you listed was so far off base I'm not even sure we watched the same two films.
wait wait wait, so the russian guy in TOS, who is now played by Anton Yelchin, a russian actor, is being bagged on for having a russian accent?
oh wait it's just sollvax posting.
Walter Koenig had a bad Russian accent - so bad, it became a popular fan theory that he had a speech impediment.
Anton seems to have run with the "speech impediment" explanation (cf his trouble getting the computer to understand him in the '09 movie).
Oh, and Pinky, sollvax seems convinced that if a woman kisses a man, she's a "TRIBBLE". That may or may not reflect sollvax's own level of experience with kissing...
I promise I'm not being snarky here. This is a genuine question. Have you watched the new film?
I only ask because if this is important to you, then you might be pleasantly surprised by the new one. There are some pretty overt political/moral themes explored in the new one that directly parallel events in the real world. Far more in this movie than what was explored in, say, Star Treks 1, 2, 3, and 5.
4 and 6 were on about equal footing with this new movie as far as cultural allegory, but the other 4 were most definitely less.
I have seen both remakes by Binks and his crew.
I enoyed a few scenes mostly homages to the original movies. The actors were, once again, my biggest issues. The actor who played KHAN may be an actor but Khan was best portrayed by Ricardo M.......A human with great insights, intelligence and prowess...not a deep voices robot who takes punches well.......as many strength as Khan had he had a great weakness and Ricardo M portrayed that well too...overconfidence.......this new actor did squat for the movie IMO.
As to the messages conveyed in the new ST if they would have used drones and the president of the federation was a black man then I could see them being political.........no such message was gleamed from this movie by me.
the little feud between Manura and Splock was OT as well. Their attempt at humor in that scene was tiresome and tedious and failed horribly.
The HOMAGE to to Kirk and his utterance was the worst I have ever seen...and should have been deleted and left to fall onto the editing floor.......
Of the 2 remakes by JJ Binks and his crew this one was , by far, the worst. Imperial uniforms and hats and saluting........Next movie the Admiral will come back as a robot and spout of thankyou for your cooperation
I have seen articles that try to convey terrorism in this movie and rammifications as well as parallels to todays society.,.I am unable to see the parallels myself.What I did gleam is that the producers and JJ Binks beleive that ST and all its forms are slow and boring.....nothing a little fisticuffs, explosions, lens flares, and overacting, or lack thereof cant remedy.
Today we fight the GAULS......monstrous and HAIRY beyond reason.
Korea has the death penalty for drugs (and he is Korean)
and its specifically flirting with and kissing and probably sleeping with an instructor
a cadet no problem
an instructor his career is over and your expelled
as to amsterdam
EU law will soon close down that loop hole
whoa even more moronics from sollvax going on.
i would not claim to know the laws of north, but south korea does not have a death penalty for drug use. it has stringent laws and looks down on those that use it, but they do not put them to death. there are many a case of kpop bands or singers having their careers ended or disbanded due to being publicly found out as drug users, but none of them are ever put to death. ever.
also, since you clearly misuse this. Japanese is not a race, just like how Korean is not a race. they are nationalities. the race would be Asian (though technically asian more refers to the ethnicity).
and its specifically flirting with and kissing and probably sleeping with an instructor
a cadet no problem
an instructor his career is over and your expelled
Keep in mind that Starfleet's regulations are not the same regulations as current naval and student/teacher relations.
Even now though, if both the teacher and the student are above the age of consent in their area, they are allowed to do whatever they want to, for the most part. People might frown on the relationship, but there's nothing they can do to stop it.
I find your usage of the term "TRIBBLE" highly offensive, as well.
all things said, my two big gripes about the new movie was the fact that makeup didn't even do anything to make Cumberbatch resemble Montalban. i mean, i get that the Narada's incrusion caused a sort of butterfly affect that rippled out so widely that it even affected how characters that were in no way assosciated with the event acted, but Khan should in no way be affected. i can buy that thanks to Nero, someone else from starfleet found the botany bay and woke up Khan and had him work for the feds, but his birth, rise, and exile all precede the destruction of the Kelvin. so as far as looks go, that should have remained a constant. my other big gripe is that the Enterprise never fired a single shot.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
and yes he is her teacher he refers to her as his best student
of course spock in this film is insane but thats probably due to the deaths of billions of his people on Romulus (vulcans and romulans are the same species way back)
they basically made each character something they weren't
oh and yes he is a stoner (the Actor not the character) he was interviewed after "harold and kumar escape from guantalamo" and freely admitted to using weed when younger
and being put on the flag ship in a post you are not qualified for is promotion
Kissing? Seriously? KISSING?! Then most of the people on this board are TRIBBLE with that logic. Then you call a character a pothead because THE ACTOR said he smoked some reefer. What kind of logic is this?
No, warp drive was never a solid theory. It was pure invention, and Roddenberry never even worked out how it was supposed to function - in the words of Joe Straczynski, the ships moved at the speed of plot.
Miguel Alcubierre was inspired to work out his theory after watching Star Trek. Harold White refined it, because he really wants an FTL drive (although he states it will most likely be used for STL purposes first, assuming it works - for one, it would drastically reduce the amount of fuel needed for a trip, and for another, if it fails, it's easier to rescue a ship that's stranded halfway to Jupiter than one that's stranded halfway to Tau Ceti).
Phasers were pure invention - the physical basis for such a device was invented only a few years ago, and the result is still too massive to be man-portable (although the inventor has hopes).
Communicators were in fact the inspiration for cell phones, which is why most of the early models were flip-phones, like the flip-up antenna on TOS communicators.
And there's no good theory of physics to underlie transporters, although replicators at least have the dignity of being an obvious spinoff technology of transporters (all you need is the transporter pattern of what you want, and enough energy to beam it in).
Star Trek was never hard SF; it was never about the plausibility, but the adventure. (After all, in the episode with the mental hospital, how "plausible" is it that Spock couldn't figure out to just shoot both Kirks with his phaser on stun, and sort them out later, in sickbay if necessary? But that would have robbed the episode's climax of some of its power, and story has always come first.)
Okay, just for the record, Into Darkness was awesome. Anything else that people say is their opinion, IT'S STUPID, but that's just the way society is. Someone always disagrees. That's one reason why people don't like Abrams movies.
I really like it. Things are different, things are similar, and you can really see the progression in some characters. I believe as the franchise continues, Kirk will become more like Shatner's (but never quite the same), Spock will be VERY different, and everyone else will be there every step of the way. Why? Because they are friends. And that's what Star Trek was always about in TOS and it was conveyed very accurately in the new movies. So, I like it.
And I am only 15, and I like Both TOS and J.J.A. Would you believe it? only 15!
Yes, and most of it was awful. If you're referring to the scene where he bonks his head, that was not a case of him being funny but rather a case of the writers using him as a laughing stock. Quite the difference. And also why that was such a groan-inducing scene.
In ST'09, Pegg is a manic clown throughout. Part of that was Pegg himself, but mostly the part as was written.
And I disagree. 79 episodes; I don't feel like spending the time to go through the list, but I'm sure it's not even close to 1/4 of the time.
You and I just differ on this, I guess. I consider him comic relief because, with the exception of a few occasions, Scotty always had a humorous quip about the current situation. Sometimes it was very subtle humor, but it was humor nonetheless.
Chekov shown as a teeny bopper with a stupid accent
Sulu is the wrong nationality and shown as a complete moron
Scotty treated as comic relief and wrong accent
kirk is brutal sexist JERK with Iq of a cheese sandwich
Spock is muirderous sex maniac who is sexually harrassing a student
Uhura is shown as a TRIBBLE
mc coy is shown as incompetent , negligent and criminal
pike is shown as insane
they kill billions of people for no reason
play fast and loose with canon
mount rapid fire cannons on enterprise
engineering is a pumping station
Just to be fair the message coming from all these things is based on how our current view of the world is in movies and tv shows that people in college or straight out of college are sex crazed people. So it doesn't surprise me these things are presented in the movie. Obviously Uhura and Spock's relationship must end because they are no longer together in the normal star trek timeline but who knows as this is an alternate universe.
I know the what your saying definitely applies to the original series but I did very clearly specify in my post I was speaking about TNG on.
Then why are you bringing it up in a thread about a TOS reboot? TNG doesn't even enter into it - it's like trying to defend a hyperviolent rewrite of a TNG episode by pointing to the Dominion War.
Because if Gene Roddenberry was alive today he would not have approved of either movie on the grounds I put forth. He would not of allowed them to be made because of the things I mentioned.
Gene Roddenberry also did NOT approve of the story for Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country.
Because if Gene Roddenberry was alive today he would not have approved of either movie on the grounds I put forth. He would not of allowed them to be made because of the things I mentioned.
That's a very fine knife's edge you're riding there.
Gene Roddenberry was naturally very big with TMP's creation. It made money, but it definitely had flaws as a movie.
Because of this, the studio prevented GR from involvement with the sequel, The Wrath of Khan. That movie, to this date and even after Into Darkness, still stands as the best Star Trek movie done so far. The depiction from TWOK, like the famed uniforms, would carry through all the rest of the TMP movies, and even into several other ST TV episodes that flashback to that timeframe.
Now, I'm all for keeping true to Gene Roddenberry's basic theme to the franchise, but a little bit of deviation is in order at times. I'm not saying to "outright break the rules" or theme of the IP, but some deviation and change is in order.
Comments
We all make mistakes, it takes bravery and honor to admit them. It is all good, keep on Trekkin'
A completely respectful exchange.
What is this trickery?
Yep. Totally agree.
That movie is more Trek than STXI.
For 75% of the movie that was absolutely true.
Then there's the other 25% where they sort of ditched that and went back to Khan.
wait wait wait, so the russian guy in TOS, who is now played by Anton Yelchin, a russian actor, is being bagged on for having a russian accent?
oh wait it's just sollvax posting.
Into Darkness was a terrible re-hashing and creatively bankrupt film (courtesy of Paramount moreso than Abrams, as they have the authority to override any creative decisions made by the writers), but everything you listed was so far off base I'm not even sure we watched the same two films.
No, not really. France had been conquered by England by that point, during the wars referenced in Encounter at Farpoint.
Anton seems to have run with the "speech impediment" explanation (cf his trouble getting the computer to understand him in the '09 movie).
Oh, and Pinky, sollvax seems convinced that if a woman kisses a man, she's a "TRIBBLE". That may or may not reflect sollvax's own level of experience with kissing...
I have seen both remakes by Binks and his crew.
I enoyed a few scenes mostly homages to the original movies. The actors were, once again, my biggest issues. The actor who played KHAN may be an actor but Khan was best portrayed by Ricardo M.......A human with great insights, intelligence and prowess...not a deep voices robot who takes punches well.......as many strength as Khan had he had a great weakness and Ricardo M portrayed that well too...overconfidence.......this new actor did squat for the movie IMO.
As to the messages conveyed in the new ST if they would have used drones and the president of the federation was a black man then I could see them being political.........no such message was gleamed from this movie by me.
the little feud between Manura and Splock was OT as well. Their attempt at humor in that scene was tiresome and tedious and failed horribly.
The HOMAGE to to Kirk and his utterance was the worst I have ever seen...and should have been deleted and left to fall onto the editing floor.......
Of the 2 remakes by JJ Binks and his crew this one was , by far, the worst. Imperial uniforms and hats and saluting........Next movie the Admiral will come back as a robot and spout of thankyou for your cooperation
I have seen articles that try to convey terrorism in this movie and rammifications as well as parallels to todays society.,.I am unable to see the parallels myself.What I did gleam is that the producers and JJ Binks beleive that ST and all its forms are slow and boring.....nothing a little fisticuffs, explosions, lens flares, and overacting, or lack thereof cant remedy.
whoa even more moronics from sollvax going on.
i would not claim to know the laws of north, but south korea does not have a death penalty for drug use. it has stringent laws and looks down on those that use it, but they do not put them to death. there are many a case of kpop bands or singers having their careers ended or disbanded due to being publicly found out as drug users, but none of them are ever put to death. ever.
also, since you clearly misuse this. Japanese is not a race, just like how Korean is not a race. they are nationalities. the race would be Asian (though technically asian more refers to the ethnicity).
Keep in mind that Starfleet's regulations are not the same regulations as current naval and student/teacher relations.
Even now though, if both the teacher and the student are above the age of consent in their area, they are allowed to do whatever they want to, for the most part. People might frown on the relationship, but there's nothing they can do to stop it.
I find your usage of the term "TRIBBLE" highly offensive, as well.
Did we watch the same series?
Kirk was the hero archetype, Spock was the straight man, Bones was the wit, Scotty and Chekov were the comic relief...
That's just how it was, man.
Is he a fscking joke throughout every episode and the series? No. Did he ever run around the ship like a chicken with his head cut off? No.
Did you watch Final Frontier????
and something for everyone to think about....
http://www.filmschoolrejects.com/features/if-the-internet-had-existed-when-wrath-of-khan-hit-theaters.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FilmSchoolRejects+%28Film+School+Rejects%29
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
well, it's hard to run like a chicken with the head cut off if engineering is the size of a broom closet.
Yeah but that's not even close to what he did in nu-Trek, so your argument goes out the window.
I'd like to add that comic relief doesn't mean always on goofball, man. Scotty in TOS was comic relief more often than not.
Kissing? Seriously? KISSING?! Then most of the people on this board are TRIBBLE with that logic. Then you call a character a pothead because THE ACTOR said he smoked some reefer. What kind of logic is this?
Miguel Alcubierre was inspired to work out his theory after watching Star Trek. Harold White refined it, because he really wants an FTL drive (although he states it will most likely be used for STL purposes first, assuming it works - for one, it would drastically reduce the amount of fuel needed for a trip, and for another, if it fails, it's easier to rescue a ship that's stranded halfway to Jupiter than one that's stranded halfway to Tau Ceti).
Phasers were pure invention - the physical basis for such a device was invented only a few years ago, and the result is still too massive to be man-portable (although the inventor has hopes).
Communicators were in fact the inspiration for cell phones, which is why most of the early models were flip-phones, like the flip-up antenna on TOS communicators.
And there's no good theory of physics to underlie transporters, although replicators at least have the dignity of being an obvious spinoff technology of transporters (all you need is the transporter pattern of what you want, and enough energy to beam it in).
Star Trek was never hard SF; it was never about the plausibility, but the adventure. (After all, in the episode with the mental hospital, how "plausible" is it that Spock couldn't figure out to just shoot both Kirks with his phaser on stun, and sort them out later, in sickbay if necessary? But that would have robbed the episode's climax of some of its power, and story has always come first.)
I really like it. Things are different, things are similar, and you can really see the progression in some characters. I believe as the franchise continues, Kirk will become more like Shatner's (but never quite the same), Spock will be VERY different, and everyone else will be there every step of the way. Why? Because they are friends. And that's what Star Trek was always about in TOS and it was conveyed very accurately in the new movies. So, I like it.
And I am only 15, and I like Both TOS and J.J.A. Would you believe it? only 15!
HIPPIES. HIPPIES EVERYWHERE.
In ST'09, Pegg is a manic clown throughout. Part of that was Pegg himself, but mostly the part as was written.
--- And I disagree. 79 episodes; I don't feel like spending the time to go through the list, but I'm sure it's not even close to 1/4 of the time.
You and I just differ on this, I guess. I consider him comic relief because, with the exception of a few occasions, Scotty always had a humorous quip about the current situation. Sometimes it was very subtle humor, but it was humor nonetheless.
Just to be fair the message coming from all these things is based on how our current view of the world is in movies and tv shows that people in college or straight out of college are sex crazed people. So it doesn't surprise me these things are presented in the movie. Obviously Uhura and Spock's relationship must end because they are no longer together in the normal star trek timeline but who knows as this is an alternate universe.
Now what?
:rolleyes:
That's a very fine knife's edge you're riding there.
Gene Roddenberry was naturally very big with TMP's creation. It made money, but it definitely had flaws as a movie.
Because of this, the studio prevented GR from involvement with the sequel, The Wrath of Khan. That movie, to this date and even after Into Darkness, still stands as the best Star Trek movie done so far. The depiction from TWOK, like the famed uniforms, would carry through all the rest of the TMP movies, and even into several other ST TV episodes that flashback to that timeframe.
Now, I'm all for keeping true to Gene Roddenberry's basic theme to the franchise, but a little bit of deviation is in order at times. I'm not saying to "outright break the rules" or theme of the IP, but some deviation and change is in order.