As a lot of folks have said, its not down to the ship or whats in it, its down to the players KNOWLEDGE of what to do on that ESTF.
The worst one is that one with the borg klingons and that useless ship ya need to keep alive in the middle. I've pugged in there a few times and half the time folks in top of the line T5 cruisers end up trying to take on the cube before hitting the nanite gens below it, they totally ignore the birds of prey and its up to me and the couple of others who know how that map works to kill off the BOPS.
Then they start to whine and cry for help when the neghvars and raptors show up, run off to the far edge of the map with their useless fat TRIBBLE toothless failaxy and dont come back till all the neghvars are gone.
Heres what Cryptic SHOULD do... dont limit ESTF's to what the user has on their ship. Find some way to tutor them on how the stf's and estf's are done, starting from the easiest (Infected Conduit) to the hardest (Hive). Some kind of tutorial video on all of them or something. Then limit them to normal STF's until they manage to get the optional on ALL of them, then the ESTF variants will unlock.
Its all down to knowledge (or lack thereof) and not the ship.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
THe OP was obviouslt making a Troll post to get people to rage. And it undoubtedly worked just look at the 3 pages of replys
I don't think so. Gear gating, grind gating, and rep gating have been pretty much constant requests to "improve" elite STFs, always missing the point of course and only obstructing play with inconvenience rather than improving anything.
This is the first post I've seen that's tied the idea to the term gearscore and invoked all the ridiculous things done under that name, but it's not a new idea.
can U Put Gear Score Here And Lock Elite Stf To Everyone Who Dont Have Full Epic Gear,so Much Ppl Coming There Whit Mx10 Or Worse Gear Since They Dont Need Better Gear To Can Enter:mad:
can u put gear score here and lock elite stf to everyone who dont have full epic gear,so much ppl coming there whit mx10 or worse gear since they dont need better gear to can enter:mad:
Absolutely NOT. I just hit Level 50 on my KDF Toon, and decked her out in full Mk XI Whites (Since everything I had before then was Mk VII or below).
Took her into an Elite STF (Infected Space), and wiped the floor with it with my team; even got the optional! So it's a matter of how good of a player you are, NOT YOUR GEAR!
Original Join Date: January 2010 Original Name: -Gen-Alaris Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
Wow...if you think you need Mk XII purples to do an ESTF you must really suck. Like, "how on Earth did you manage to open the game window, log in, and join the server?" bad. You could probably run the freakin' things in Mk I whites for crying out loud.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
I think any gearscore that gets implemented into STO ought to run on advanced metrics. None of these BS counting stats like Deeps and Heelz.
I'm talking the MMO version of Wins Above Replacement. OPS+. Total Zone rating. And even some of those basketball stats that monitor efficiency, like True Shooting Percentage. Per 36s. That kind of stuff.
Really push the score into an all-encompassing evaluation of what one brings to the table.
can u put gear score here and lock elite stf to everyone who dont have full epic gear,so much ppl coming there whit mx10 or worse gear since they dont need better gear to can enter:mad:
Perhaps if this proposal made coherent sense I might actually consider it as a serious idea.
Given that it doesn't, however, I can honestly say that this is the single worst idea in the history of STO's playerbase. It would be like only allowing people onto the forums if they could form a coherent sentence.
...
...
Now that's not a bad idea.
Furthermore, how do you know that the people you're playing with have got "Mk X or worse gear"? Are you asking everyone afterwards? Or are you just assuming that games gone badly are the fault of your teammates and their supposedly-sub-par weapons?
Remember - a bad workman blames his tools.
I rock up to STFs on my Klingon alt with Mk XI gear and don't ever have much problem. I don't think i've been in an STF that failed - or indeed failed the optional - in about three months of gameplay. My Fed Tac has only one purple item on her ship - Quad Cannons - everything else is just common Mk XI gear, and she barely ever has a problem.
So yeah; No. This is a bad idea.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
DPS meters like ACT already measure player damage output performance. This is all that's needed since a monkey with a full arsenal of purples is won't match the productivity of a seasoned player who knows his how to use his / her build and skill rotations.
if you had run a stf with the two guys I got paired with last friday you might not consider it such a joke
one of them spent the entire time shouting "yippee kai ay (deleted) " and kirk rolling
and the other one lay on the ground shouting Help in german for half the mission
had it not been for an Andorian tactical and a Rather helpful (and definately insane) federation klingon speced for melee we would probably still be at it
Well of course. There's always going to be idiots in STF's. That has little or nothing to do with their gear level, which was the point of my previous post. The lack or presence of a certain set of gear means absolutely nothing except that the person acquired that gear at some point.
May I remind you that almost a year ago my fleet sent in a team of 5 tier 1 ships into ISE and we won. If mirandas can beat ESTFs, than a tier 5 ship without purples can. If you struggle to beat STFs without purples, you're doing something horribly wrong (not including 'skill level' of most pugs).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Harden up Princess Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website: www.ausmonauts.com
No...absolutely not. I have all MkXii purples and I loathe this elitist nonsense. It's ythe height of arrogance to limit someone else's enjoyment of the game because they're pixels aren't purple enough for you. If that's what you want go back to WOW.
you sir are a word scholar I could not have said it better myself ......OP you are dismissed
I honestly think a single player tutorial of each mission before you can do STF's that teaches people how to play is better than a you must be this high to ride gate that is Gear Score.
The game does tell you what to do and where you went wrong, but who actually reads those boxes. Yes you would be locked out till you successfully complete the mission but it would tell you what to do.
There would be some changes, for example you'd have help with the BoPs in Cure Space, You'd beam over explosives to 3 of the Generators in Infected Space and blow them when you kill the 4th one. You'd have an assistant in Khitomar Space to do the other side probes.
My ships run mostly Mk XI Blues, some of my newer ships run whites. I think my Kitty Carrier needs a better configuration rather than better gear. My KDF Carrier runs rings around it in DPS with lesser gear.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
In some ways I like the idea, because it keeps the inexperienced players out. However, the rage is strong in this thread... so perhaps not :rolleyes:.
Would people be more up to the idea of needing to unlock an accolade or something to be able to enter ESTFs? Say do the STF on normal for up to 10 times before unlocking the Elite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that many STFs would get you marks for a MkX MACO/HG set correct? Perhaps make it account bound so once you've learnt the ropes so to speak on that character you can go right in on future toons. Like you said, it's the knowledge more than gear that is the deciding factor here.
Still won't stop the players with IQ lower than my cats getting in and trolling your PUG, but that's another issue.
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
May I remind you that almost a year ago my fleet sent in a team of 5 tier 1 ships into ISE and we won. If mirandas can beat ESTFs, than a tier 5 ship without purples can. If you struggle to beat STFs without purples, you're doing something horribly wrong (not including 'skill level' of most pugs).
Let's not forget you didn't get the Optional ^-^. And CSE and KASE were still impossible (CSN and KASN were a different story). Speaking of non-optional ISNs... remember using shuttles? ^-^. Or did you guys manage to complete an ISE with shuttles?
Well I think warpet is full now, 6+ pages lol. The gearscore idea is no doubt from Neverwinter. In STO, where the difference between a white mk 10 and a purple mk 12 is quite minimal, in NW, it matters more since gear is from level 1 to 60, and a lot of players hit level 60 in a few minutes (or at most, a few hours.) Imagine if you could go from 6 to 50 in a single Mirror Incursion.
So you see a lot of people doing things like LFM CNT2 gs min 9k or something similar. You can also inspect one another's actual gear to verify (and some do...)
For STO's STFs, it'd be more appropriate to gate nSTFs to T3+ ships with Mk 8+ gear and perhaps T4+ with Mk 10+ gear for eSTFs. And it still wouldn't make much difference at all. How do you gate that guy hiding in the corner, needing on items?
Would people be more up to the idea of needing to unlock an accolade or something to be able to enter ESTFs? Say do the STF on normal for up to 10 times before unlocking the Elite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that many STFs would get you marks for a MkX MACO/HG set correct? Perhaps make it account bound so once you've learnt the ropes so to speak on that character you can go right in on future toons. Like you said, it's the knowledge more than gear that is the deciding factor here.
Still won't stop the players with IQ lower than my cats getting in and trolling your PUG, but that's another issue.
Save that - speaking for the Space STFs, since I am an utter ground noob - the skill difference required between CSN and CSE, and between KASN and KASE, is huge. (ISE is a faceroll even with most pickups.) CSE, especially, is a whole different beast from CSN in ease. Freaking Negh'vars.
I'm all for the accolade idea, since it will at least get people familiar with the maps. But not sure it'll guarantee ability.
Full MACO Space set, is a bad thing? The 3 piece bonus power
No, it's not a bad thing at all. Neither is the ground set, which is the one Sollvax wanted banned from ground STFs. My suggestion was that we ban people from ground STFs only based on their space equipment, because:
as long as we're enforcing silly elitist crock we might as well go full crazy about it.
It's just not worth doing something stupid on purpose unless it's comically stupid.
Full MACO Space set, is a bad thing? The 3 piece bonus power?
Let's not forget you didn't get the Optional ^-^. And CSE and KASE were still impossible (CSN and KASN were a different story). Speaking of non-optional ISNs... remember using shuttles? ^-^. Or did you guys manage to complete an ISE with shuttles?
Well I think warpet is full now, 6+ pages lol. The gearscore idea is no doubt from Neverwinter. In STO, where the difference between a white mk 10 and a purple mk 12 is quite minimal, in NW, it matters more since gear is from level 1 to 60, and a lot of players hit level 60 in a few minutes (or at most, a few hours.) Imagine if you could go from 6 to 50 in a single Mirror Incursion.
So you see a lot of people doing things like LFM CNT2 gs min 9k or something similar. You can also inspect one another's actual gear to verify (and some do...)
For STO's STFs, it'd be more appropriate to gate nSTFs to T3+ ships with Mk 8+ gear and perhaps T4+ with Mk 10+ gear for eSTFs. And it still wouldn't make much difference at all. How do you gate that guy hiding in the corner, needing on items?
No but the point is that the equipment doesn't matter, its the captain. And yes shuttles did come to mind but by the time we wanted to they stopped shuttles from being allowed in.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Harden up Princess Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website: www.ausmonauts.com
I fully agree with this. If you do not have a full MK XII purple set of everything you should not be allowed into STFS of any kind. They are called ELITE STF's after all.... for the ELITE.
NERF CANNONS - THEY NEED A 50% NERF
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
My fleet did ISE and KASE in shuttles a while back. Granted, mainly P2W shuttles, and it took freaking forever and missed the optionals, but still. Gear restricted eSTFs is ludicrous, end of story.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
I fully agree with this. If you do not have a full MK XII purple set of everything you should not be allowed into STFS of any kind. They are called ELITE STF's after all.... for the ELITE.
Why?
You clearly don't need purple Mk XII gear or uber ships to get through an ESTF - you need experience, both of the mission and of your own skills. As was proved by the guys that went toe-to-toe with ESTF Borg in Mirandas.
Elite is defined by skill when it comes to STFs, not material wealth.
Rather than banning people from STF, maybe what this place needs is a PvE bootcamp so instead of people being whiny over the fact that some players aren't as experienced as they are, they can actually put that experience to good use.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
I fully agree with this. If you do not have a full MK XII purple set of everything you should not be allowed into STFS of any kind. They are called ELITE STF's after all.... for the ELITE.
Following that logic, anyone who has high end gear shouldn't be allowed into the ESTFs. Since they're easily completable with mediocre gear, the worse your equipment, the more Elite you are, no?
Comments
The worst one is that one with the borg klingons and that useless ship ya need to keep alive in the middle. I've pugged in there a few times and half the time folks in top of the line T5 cruisers end up trying to take on the cube before hitting the nanite gens below it, they totally ignore the birds of prey and its up to me and the couple of others who know how that map works to kill off the BOPS.
Then they start to whine and cry for help when the neghvars and raptors show up, run off to the far edge of the map with their useless fat TRIBBLE toothless failaxy and dont come back till all the neghvars are gone.
Heres what Cryptic SHOULD do... dont limit ESTF's to what the user has on their ship. Find some way to tutor them on how the stf's and estf's are done, starting from the easiest (Infected Conduit) to the hardest (Hive). Some kind of tutorial video on all of them or something. Then limit them to normal STF's until they manage to get the optional on ALL of them, then the ESTF variants will unlock.
Its all down to knowledge (or lack thereof) and not the ship.
Solomon Grundy born on a Monday
I don't think so. Gear gating, grind gating, and rep gating have been pretty much constant requests to "improve" elite STFs, always missing the point of course and only obstructing play with inconvenience rather than improving anything.
This is the first post I've seen that's tied the idea to the term gearscore and invoked all the ridiculous things done under that name, but it's not a new idea.
Remodulieren....?
Hahahahahahhaahahahahhahahahahahahhahaha!
Absolutely NOT. I just hit Level 50 on my KDF Toon, and decked her out in full Mk XI Whites (Since everything I had before then was Mk VII or below).
Took her into an Elite STF (Infected Space), and wiped the floor with it with my team; even got the optional! So it's a matter of how good of a player you are, NOT YOUR GEAR!
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
Spock's Brain.
took over an hour but we did finish
I'm talking the MMO version of Wins Above Replacement. OPS+. Total Zone rating. And even some of those basketball stats that monitor efficiency, like True Shooting Percentage. Per 36s. That kind of stuff.
Really push the score into an all-encompassing evaluation of what one brings to the table.
Perhaps if this proposal made coherent sense I might actually consider it as a serious idea.
Given that it doesn't, however, I can honestly say that this is the single worst idea in the history of STO's playerbase. It would be like only allowing people onto the forums if they could form a coherent sentence.
...
...
Now that's not a bad idea.
Furthermore, how do you know that the people you're playing with have got "Mk X or worse gear"? Are you asking everyone afterwards? Or are you just assuming that games gone badly are the fault of your teammates and their supposedly-sub-par weapons?
Remember - a bad workman blames his tools.
I rock up to STFs on my Klingon alt with Mk XI gear and don't ever have much problem. I don't think i've been in an STF that failed - or indeed failed the optional - in about three months of gameplay. My Fed Tac has only one purple item on her ship - Quad Cannons - everything else is just common Mk XI gear, and she barely ever has a problem.
So yeah; No. This is a bad idea.
I did say "or something", which could have included "joking"
Well of course. There's always going to be idiots in STF's. That has little or nothing to do with their gear level, which was the point of my previous post. The lack or presence of a certain set of gear means absolutely nothing except that the person acquired that gear at some point.
Harden up Princess
Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website:
www.ausmonauts.com
you sir are a word scholar I could not have said it better myself ......OP you are dismissed
The game does tell you what to do and where you went wrong, but who actually reads those boxes. Yes you would be locked out till you successfully complete the mission but it would tell you what to do.
There would be some changes, for example you'd have help with the BoPs in Cure Space, You'd beam over explosives to 3 of the Generators in Infected Space and blow them when you kill the 4th one. You'd have an assistant in Khitomar Space to do the other side probes.
My ships run mostly Mk XI Blues, some of my newer ships run whites. I think my Kitty Carrier needs a better configuration rather than better gear. My KDF Carrier runs rings around it in DPS with lesser gear.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
Sure, just do a thousand Automated Aggressions and you're golden.
Would people be more up to the idea of needing to unlock an accolade or something to be able to enter ESTFs? Say do the STF on normal for up to 10 times before unlocking the Elite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doing that many STFs would get you marks for a MkX MACO/HG set correct? Perhaps make it account bound so once you've learnt the ropes so to speak on that character you can go right in on future toons. Like you said, it's the knowledge more than gear that is the deciding factor here.
Still won't stop the players with IQ lower than my cats getting in and trolling your PUG, but that's another issue.
Looking for a dedicated Star Trek community? Visit www.ufplanets.com for details.
Full MACO Space set, is a bad thing? The 3 piece bonus power?
Let's not forget you didn't get the Optional ^-^. And CSE and KASE were still impossible (CSN and KASN were a different story). Speaking of non-optional ISNs... remember using shuttles? ^-^. Or did you guys manage to complete an ISE with shuttles?
Well I think warpet is full now, 6+ pages lol. The gearscore idea is no doubt from Neverwinter. In STO, where the difference between a white mk 10 and a purple mk 12 is quite minimal, in NW, it matters more since gear is from level 1 to 60, and a lot of players hit level 60 in a few minutes (or at most, a few hours.) Imagine if you could go from 6 to 50 in a single Mirror Incursion.
So you see a lot of people doing things like LFM CNT2 gs min 9k or something similar. You can also inspect one another's actual gear to verify (and some do...)
For STO's STFs, it'd be more appropriate to gate nSTFs to T3+ ships with Mk 8+ gear and perhaps T4+ with Mk 10+ gear for eSTFs. And it still wouldn't make much difference at all. How do you gate that guy hiding in the corner, needing on items?
Save that - speaking for the Space STFs, since I am an utter ground noob - the skill difference required between CSN and CSE, and between KASN and KASE, is huge. (ISE is a faceroll even with most pickups.) CSE, especially, is a whole different beast from CSN in ease. Freaking Negh'vars.
I'm all for the accolade idea, since it will at least get people familiar with the maps. But not sure it'll guarantee ability.
No, it's not a bad thing at all. Neither is the ground set, which is the one Sollvax wanted banned from ground STFs. My suggestion was that we ban people from ground STFs only based on their space equipment, because:
It's just not worth doing something stupid on purpose unless it's comically stupid.
No but the point is that the equipment doesn't matter, its the captain. And yes shuttles did come to mind but by the time we wanted to they stopped shuttles from being allowed in.
Harden up Princess
Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website:
www.ausmonauts.com
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
edited for speeling.
Why?
You clearly don't need purple Mk XII gear or uber ships to get through an ESTF - you need experience, both of the mission and of your own skills. As was proved by the guys that went toe-to-toe with ESTF Borg in Mirandas.
Elite is defined by skill when it comes to STFs, not material wealth.
Rather than banning people from STF, maybe what this place needs is a PvE bootcamp so instead of people being whiny over the fact that some players aren't as experienced as they are, they can actually put that experience to good use.
Following that logic, anyone who has high end gear shouldn't be allowed into the ESTFs. Since they're easily completable with mediocre gear, the worse your equipment, the more Elite you are, no?