A more Star Trek feeling combat would have you fighting an extended battle against a single powerful enemy that is very hard to kill, not the multispawn hairy furballs coming in waves that we currently have.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
It's the only way to skip between bridge sequences that actually matter (shouting orders, healing BOFFs with their heads exploding from c-4 embedded consols...
The coolest part would be jumping into the engineers and frantically running up collapsing ladders, and shutting in those poor crewman on the wrong side of the emergency containment field in a hull breach. Crawling desparately through jeffries tubes.
All of this would have to be a 'repair' phase each side was entitled to between combat rounds.
And I very much there's much support for altering the game in that way, even if it could be done.
Second coolest benefit from this idea: Your BOFFs can suggest last-minute plans that give you one-use temporary moves you've never heard of before!
Amd perhaps your captian would be the morale medic, more or less, using an 'inspiring' abillity both to recuperate injured BOFFs, but also to inspire them with confidence before an important volley.
Anyway, that's the only way you I can think of to make it matter.
MAAAAAYBE a compromise where the walls of the bridge become transparent, which was an idea made explicit on Jem Hardar ships with those wierd eye pieces...
Starships (regardless of class) should be relatively easy to damage and difficult to destroy. Engineering teams should gradually repair hull and subsystems. Once a ship is disabled, the victor should have the option of attampting to board the enemy ship or blowing it away completely.
Boarding tiggers a Pvp capture map based on the interior of the defending player's vessel.
The loser (either through being captured or being blown away) will respawn in sector space with significant damage to either their subsystems (which need to be repaired) or their crew (duty officers) which will need to be replenished or at the very least spend time recovering in sickbay, or YES even both dedending on how the battles went.
This blow up, respawn without penalty and repeat system is lame and clearly designed to cater to those who hate suffering any kind of penalty for poor tactics. :mad:
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...the only reason you can't go straight up or roll and invert is because of an arbitrary limit set on that degree of motion for the ships, not because the engine can't support it.... starships don't need to flit around like fighter jets, in fact it's less realistic if they do, but they could at least remove the limit on pitch angle so that ship can rise or dive without having to waste movement to get at targets above or below them.
Why should it be necessary for a Spaceship to fly up in circles like in a parking deck, to get up there.
This, this, and this. If they just changed the maximum incline/decline angle to 90, or even 89, without changing any other aspect of the controls, it would be a great improvement, and still avoid the issue of seeing upside-down ships or becoming disoriented. It's not simply a matter of being "like Star Trek" or "realistic" at all, it boils down to the fact that they are giving you a 3-D arena in which to fly, the arena has as much vertical span as it has horizontal, and therefore the next ship you want to target can in fact be directly above you, but in order for you to set your sights on it, you have to either fly in a silly looking upward spiral, or fly straight forward and upward for a while, until you think you've covered half the vertical distance, then turn around and climb the rest of the way flying back toward your target. It just feels extremely clunky.
"Captain, target sighted! Range: 40 km, bearing: 70 degrees Zulu."
"Prepare to fire."
"Sir, our impulse engines are only capable of a maximum angle of 60 degrees relative to the galactic plate. The only way we're going to be able to so much as ignite their warp exhaust is if we utilize either a serpentine attack vector, or a Paris Turn."
"Blast, I knew I never should have trusted that Ferengi shipyard dealer!"
Very simply to me improving space combat at least one step would be NOT EVERY SHIP HAS TO HAVE A WARP CORE BREACH... Can we not just disable one? Why do we have to exterminate thousands of lives a day. Kirk and Picard never did that day in day out, we shouldn't either.
Yes blow some to hell and back, but others just cripple them. That would improve it a step for me.
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Here is an idea we have already in the game the ability to disable some sub systems by targeting them with our beam arrays.
If they used those abilities somehow to slowly disable an oppenent Such as disable weapons . shields engines etc etc.
since the ability is ingame already why not just make it where you have the option to either slowly disable a ship then board it Or just blow it to kingdom come.
The capture option would be a little more time consuming but it would add more of a trek feel to combat aswell.
They could utulize the exisitng starship interiors maps and use them for PvP or PvE boarding party battles.
The maximum up and down angle was said to exist to not confuse too many people. Of course that is just an excuse, STO is basically a 2 dimensional game with 3 dimensional graphics. There is virtually nothing in the game that requires a change in the Z axis, its much easier to create 2D missions, maps and anything else rather than realistic situations.
The biggest problem will always be enemies are mindless space fotter and we are super charged killing machines, its not trek in the slightest.
The most Trek-like combat was in SFC (StarFleet Command) which was a direct port from the boardgame SFB (StarFleet Battles).
And most people didn't like it.
Combat was strategic and slow, and required you to plan ahead quite a bit. Not exactly what most MMO players look for.
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The most Trek-like combat was in SFC (StarFleet Command) which was a direct port from the boardgame SFB (StarFleet Battles).
And most people didn't like it.
Combat was strategic and slow, and required you to plan ahead quite a bit. Not exactly what most MMO players look for.
This.
Don't get me wrong, loved Star Fleet Battles back in the day.
Not much interested in Star Fleet Battles Online, though.
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I do agree with the battles althrough some PVE mostly starbase 24 has really nice long intensive battles, of which you need to think about were you are going to avoid getting surrounded, from every direction.
That is very good fun, nuts the the STF one shot borg torp kills, of which you never see coming till you blow up....:eek:
As for esp missions sometimes I m glad about this as some can take up to 30 -45 minutes a pop.
The development team should do something to make the ship battles more epic. For example my Constitution Class Cruiser the Florida was able to single highhandedly take out 7 birds of prey.
In the tv show 7 birds of prey for a Constitution Cruiser would had been a formidable challenge, while in the game its easy.
I would also add the ability to get attacked in sector space travel, and the ability to declare a red alert without being attacked.
Other then this the game is very good and has been designed very well.
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I loved the fact that enemies would roam around and engage you while you were traveling between planets/zones. I wish it were an optional on/off tab in the game. That way I wouldn't need to read twitter while my ship auto-flies to my next Mission.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
personally I like the battles as they are now, the only thing I would change are the torpedoes: their impact is ... unreal ... they should be more explosive!
I am in agreement with this post because being a Star Trek fan since the original show was a new show, yes I am that old, I am constantly thinking in STO that pretty much every single mission I have violated the Prime Directive. If I was a Starship captain in STO for real I would be in a Federation prison by now, either that or I would have settled on some Roman Planet and become first citizen like Captain Merrik did in the original Episode "Bread and Circuses"
I kind of agree, space battles just don't feel massive enough, the ships we are flying are huge with firepower that could lay waste to a planet. Sound effects are a big part of the problem, weapons fire and explosions should have a deep rumble, more kaboom and less pew pew if you understand what I mean.
As for zooming to the bridge this has been discussed ad-nauseum and for the most part seems outside of the game engines abilities. It's never a good idea to compare this game with a different Star Trek product and think that features of one could work with another.
As for 360 degree motion, while I agree, it's space, so there is no limitation on degrees of freedom, but it should be remembered that you rarely see in the movies or tv series scenes where a ship is flying inverted or at right angles. All of the motion scenes always give a sense of up and down, banking instead of rolling, ascending instead of flying straight up, more like the limited maneuverability of large aircraft or submersibles as opposed to the aerobatics of a fighter jet, rolling into a dive on a target is something you normally don't see the big ships doing.
Sounds??? You're in space. There is no air so sound from an enemy ship could not travel at all.
I agree with many peoples posts.
First of all the game is not very trekey to begin with. While trek focuses on building characters and on diplomacy this is more of a 'shoot um up' game
That said, I am in favor of expanding combat to 3d. if its supposed to take place in space then why shouldn't your ship be able to fly vertically?
The ground graphics of sto are quite good in my opinion but the graphics in space leave something to be desired. If I knock a ships shields out and fire my phasers I expect it should leave jagged path of scorched armor or even cut into the enemy ship a bit. If my torpedo hits a ship on a pylon while their shields down I expect the pylon to take massive damage or even break off. If an attack busts through any enemy's shields and armor I want the outside of the ship singed of and to be able to see the deck 'skeleton' of the ship. Also, if you take damage, you ship should show that exterior damage until you respawn. No phaser marks just fading away like someone is out on your hull with a bucket of paint.
Someone mentioned being able to pilot the ship from the bridge. I agree that that would be a good option to have but that would raise the question of how to display enemy ships. in relation to you on the view screen. My solution would be to have the normal 'behind ship' view displayed on the bridge's view screen. You would view the battle normally but with the added realisticness. of a bridge's surroundings.
There have also been a few posts advocating to more randomness in the game with enemies you might not anticipate popping up as you fly through space. I agree though it is helpful and nice to know what is coming random enemies seems more of a challenge and more realistic.
I do agree with having regenerative shields but hull damage should, in my opinion be almost impossible to heal. what are the engineering teams you send out going to do? Replace 10% of your damaged 30ft square hull plates in a matter of seconds?
Also please do away with sector space. the transition from warp to impulse in my opinion should be seamless.
That's all I have, sack
Sounds??? You're in space. There is no air so sound from an enemy ship could not travel at all.
Yes, you are correct. However if they did not have sounds in space then all movies that have space battles would not seem as good as they are because they would be completely silent until they showed what was going in inside the ships.
I think alot of the weapon effects, particularly the phasers being super thick doesn't help. Not to mention all of the ability effects that show up on and around your ship. Ships in Star Trek never took long to destroy either, in the shows most of the time it only took a few hits to disable or destroy an average ship.
I think most people would be upset if one or two torpedoes blew up their ship.
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In star trek that's what often happened. Besides that's what shields are for.
I just watched an episode of TNG where a warbird hit the Ent-D three times and the shields dropped and she was a sitting duck....i am all in favor if making this more trek-like but they have to balance trek with being an MMO
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Anyone who has played bridge commander know what 360? battle is like. Its cool. But is a bit of a mind ****, where finding targets is very, very hard. (ever turned your sensors off). It didn't feel very trek. But then again most battles in trek are quite honestly TRIBBLE. Not to mention inconsistent with bad continuity. A galaxy class could kill its self by launching one photon without shields a close range, whilst later in another episode or series you fire a whole spread at a targets hull and it does nothing. So trying to make it trek like is very very hard, as everyone has seen at least a few different types of trek battle. Not to mention if they did make it more trek like, I for one don't want to have to wait a few hours for my shields to recharge (early - mid TNG), or be able to kill a tactical cube by my self in a science ship... wait.
I just watched an episode of TNG where a warbird hit the Ent-D three times and the shields dropped and she was a sitting duck....i am all in favor if making this more trek-like but they have to balance trek with being an MMO
I'm guessing that it was "Tin Man", even then the warbird only fired off, what would be in game terms, several single cannon disruptor pulses. I can't imagine them allowing anything like that in STO.
There's just too much spam on the screen at once. Too many lasers, too many pew pew's, too many torpedoes.... Toning that down would go a loooooong way.
There's just too much spam on the screen at once. Too many lasers, too many pew pew's, too many torpedoes.... Toning that down would go a loooooong way.
Hadn't been that worse back then when this thread was started.
Comments
It's the only way to skip between bridge sequences that actually matter (shouting orders, healing BOFFs with their heads exploding from c-4 embedded consols...
The coolest part would be jumping into the engineers and frantically running up collapsing ladders, and shutting in those poor crewman on the wrong side of the emergency containment field in a hull breach. Crawling desparately through jeffries tubes.
All of this would have to be a 'repair' phase each side was entitled to between combat rounds.
And I very much there's much support for altering the game in that way, even if it could be done.
Second coolest benefit from this idea: Your BOFFs can suggest last-minute plans that give you one-use temporary moves you've never heard of before!
Amd perhaps your captian would be the morale medic, more or less, using an 'inspiring' abillity both to recuperate injured BOFFs, but also to inspire them with confidence before an important volley.
Anyway, that's the only way you I can think of to make it matter.
MAAAAAYBE a compromise where the walls of the bridge become transparent, which was an idea made explicit on Jem Hardar ships with those wierd eye pieces...
Starships (regardless of class) should be relatively easy to damage and difficult to destroy. Engineering teams should gradually repair hull and subsystems. Once a ship is disabled, the victor should have the option of attampting to board the enemy ship or blowing it away completely.
Boarding tiggers a Pvp capture map based on the interior of the defending player's vessel.
The loser (either through being captured or being blown away) will respawn in sector space with significant damage to either their subsystems (which need to be repaired) or their crew (duty officers) which will need to be replenished or at the very least spend time recovering in sickbay, or YES even both dedending on how the battles went.
This blow up, respawn without penalty and repeat system is lame and clearly designed to cater to those who hate suffering any kind of penalty for poor tactics. :mad:
"An artist's growth depends upon accurate feedback." ~Data
This, this, and this. If they just changed the maximum incline/decline angle to 90, or even 89, without changing any other aspect of the controls, it would be a great improvement, and still avoid the issue of seeing upside-down ships or becoming disoriented. It's not simply a matter of being "like Star Trek" or "realistic" at all, it boils down to the fact that they are giving you a 3-D arena in which to fly, the arena has as much vertical span as it has horizontal, and therefore the next ship you want to target can in fact be directly above you, but in order for you to set your sights on it, you have to either fly in a silly looking upward spiral, or fly straight forward and upward for a while, until you think you've covered half the vertical distance, then turn around and climb the rest of the way flying back toward your target. It just feels extremely clunky.
"Captain, target sighted! Range: 40 km, bearing: 70 degrees Zulu."
"Prepare to fire."
"Sir, our impulse engines are only capable of a maximum angle of 60 degrees relative to the galactic plate. The only way we're going to be able to so much as ignite their warp exhaust is if we utilize either a serpentine attack vector, or a Paris Turn."
"Blast, I knew I never should have trusted that Ferengi shipyard dealer!"
Yes blow some to hell and back, but others just cripple them. That would improve it a step for me.
***Disenchanted***
Real Join Date: Monday, 17 May 2010
If they used those abilities somehow to slowly disable an oppenent Such as disable weapons . shields engines etc etc.
since the ability is ingame already why not just make it where you have the option to either slowly disable a ship then board it Or just blow it to kingdom come.
The capture option would be a little more time consuming but it would add more of a trek feel to combat aswell.
They could utulize the exisitng starship interiors maps and use them for PvP or PvE boarding party battles.
Anyways
The biggest problem will always be enemies are mindless space fotter and we are super charged killing machines, its not trek in the slightest.
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And most people didn't like it.
Combat was strategic and slow, and required you to plan ahead quite a bit. Not exactly what most MMO players look for.
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This.
Don't get me wrong, loved Star Fleet Battles back in the day.
Not much interested in Star Fleet Battles Online, though.
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That is very good fun, nuts the the STF one shot borg torp kills, of which you never see coming till you blow up....:eek:
As for esp missions sometimes I m glad about this as some can take up to 30 -45 minutes a pop.
The development team should do something to make the ship battles more epic. For example my Constitution Class Cruiser the Florida was able to single highhandedly take out 7 birds of prey.
In the tv show 7 birds of prey for a Constitution Cruiser would had been a formidable challenge, while in the game its easy.
I would also add the ability to get attacked in sector space travel, and the ability to declare a red alert without being attacked.
Other then this the game is very good and has been designed very well.
USS Dallas (NCC361836-A) - Defiant Class
USS Florida (NCC361513) - Sovereign Class (Mirror)
USS Stonewall Jackson (NCC241861) - Prometheus Class
Oh, the good old days, where the roaming enemy fleets pulled you in to combat.
Yea. I remember those. I believe those were wildly unpopular and thus got removed (made it optional engagement)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
Sounds??? You're in space. There is no air so sound from an enemy ship could not travel at all.
First of all the game is not very trekey to begin with. While trek focuses on building characters and on diplomacy this is more of a 'shoot um up' game
That said, I am in favor of expanding combat to 3d. if its supposed to take place in space then why shouldn't your ship be able to fly vertically?
The ground graphics of sto are quite good in my opinion but the graphics in space leave something to be desired. If I knock a ships shields out and fire my phasers I expect it should leave jagged path of scorched armor or even cut into the enemy ship a bit. If my torpedo hits a ship on a pylon while their shields down I expect the pylon to take massive damage or even break off. If an attack busts through any enemy's shields and armor I want the outside of the ship singed of and to be able to see the deck 'skeleton' of the ship. Also, if you take damage, you ship should show that exterior damage until you respawn. No phaser marks just fading away like someone is out on your hull with a bucket of paint.
Someone mentioned being able to pilot the ship from the bridge. I agree that that would be a good option to have but that would raise the question of how to display enemy ships. in relation to you on the view screen. My solution would be to have the normal 'behind ship' view displayed on the bridge's view screen. You would view the battle normally but with the added realisticness. of a bridge's surroundings.
There have also been a few posts advocating to more randomness in the game with enemies you might not anticipate popping up as you fly through space. I agree though it is helpful and nice to know what is coming random enemies seems more of a challenge and more realistic.
I do agree with having regenerative shields but hull damage should, in my opinion be almost impossible to heal. what are the engineering teams you send out going to do? Replace 10% of your damaged 30ft square hull plates in a matter of seconds?
Also please do away with sector space. the transition from warp to impulse in my opinion should be seamless.
That's all I have, sack
Yes, you are correct. However if they did not have sounds in space then all movies that have space battles would not seem as good as they are because they would be completely silent until they showed what was going in inside the ships.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
In star trek that's what often happened. Besides that's what shields are for.
I just watched an episode of TNG where a warbird hit the Ent-D three times and the shields dropped and she was a sitting duck....i am all in favor if making this more trek-like but they have to balance trek with being an MMO
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I'm guessing that it was "Tin Man", even then the warbird only fired off, what would be in game terms, several single cannon disruptor pulses. I can't imagine them allowing anything like that in STO.
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Hadn't been that worse back then when this thread was started.