What is wrong with Nemesis?

jumpingjs · April 2013

I love it

apart from the bit when it made me cry ...

Seriously ... why do you guys seem to dislike it soooo much?

daan2006 · April 2013

I for 1 loved it last trek movie to me

boglejam73 · April 2013

I don't hate it. It isn't great. It isn't good. Its ok.

I DO hate ST V.

drogyn1701 · April 2013

It kinda lacks energy, is the best way I can describe whats wrong with it. One of the reasons I enjoy ST2009, is it brought energy back to the franchise after a lackluster entry.

However I don't dislike Nemesis. I don't dislike any Trek.

eldarion79 · April 2013

I enjoyed the movie. It had one of the best battle scenes, well the last half of the movie was the battle. However, it does lack from a director who cut way too much out that would've helped the movie.

thecosmic1 · April 2013

Nemesis was an OK action film but the ending - Picard so paralyzed with grief at the death of his clone that he can't move and is going to let his entire crew on the Enterprise die - has to rank as one of the worse moments of any Trek captain ever. It completely erases all 7 years of his TNG heroism, IMO.

jake477 · April 2013

I love Nemesis, its whole reason why i got the STO Legacy Pack, Remans!

I love that music i got the entire CD soundtrack for my warbirds.

If Tom Hardy wanted to before Bane he could play one hell of a Jean Luc Picard in a

remake like the current ones for TNG. I almost had chills when he order tea almost like

Picard.....but evil.

Donatra is hot, too bad she got assimuted in the game.....what a waste of beauty.

B4 made up for Data being killed off.

For me the movies go

WoK, Generations, First Contact, Voyage Home, 2009, Nemesis, Search for spock,

Undiscovered Country, Motion Picture, Insurection and the Final Crapteir

sander233 · April 2013

What's wrong with Nemesis?

I dunno.

A Picard clone who looks nothing like Picard is created by Romulans for some sinister purpose and is immediately abandoned on Remus and somehow manages to get his hands on the ultimate warship and a hideous WMD without the Tal Shiar finding out and infiltrates the Romulan navy and senate to gain allies for his plot to take over the empire and then somehow finds a Soong-type android that predates Lore which he uses to bait Picard and his attack buggy into a confrontation so he can steal his blood.

You tell me whats wrong with that.

sollvax · April 2013

A biologically impossible clone is part of the problem

cosmonaut12345 · April 2013

The worst thing about Nemesis is that it killed TNG. I could have forgiven a lot if that hadn't happened.

(OTOH, everyone is evidently pretty happy to be doing their own thing these days, so I can't fault it too much for that)

marc8219 · April 2013

A lot of the story didn't make sense. Why would any Romulans back Shinzon? If Shinzon and the Remans were enslaved by Romulans why would he want to destroy Earth instead of Romulus? Why would he need a total blood transfusion with 24th century medical technology, if he could be cloned, couldn't the blood just be cloned also? How did he get a ship more powerful then the Enterprise? Its highly unlikely the Remans had the technology or industry to do it themselves so why would the Romulans make it then give it to him?

ambassadormolari · April 2013

Eh. Still not as bad as Insurrection.

caelrassto · April 2013

The script was dreadful. The whole story was an amateurish attempt to make a Star Trek movie without really understanding star trek. It felt like the screenwriter just watched the other trek movies that were considered decent to great and mashed them together.

I'm pretty generous to bad movies, but Nemesis was worse. When I watched it in the theatre (opening weekend), I ended up just saying to myself which other star trek movie the scene was taken from. Here's a small sample (possible spoilers if you haven't seen it)

Peace with a Hated Enemy (ST6)

Captain's Special Archnemesis, Khan vs Clone (ST2)

Riker kicking the guy of Really High Place (ST3) - Kirk vs Doc Brown was better

Disabled Ship Standoff With Bad Guy using Super Weapon (ST2)

Death of a Friend (ST2)

Rebirth of a Friend (ST3) - Hinted at end with B4

Bad Guy can fire while cloaked (ST6)

Special Sense to Smack Cloaked Enemy (ST6) - Deanna's Mind Reading (which she expressly couldn't do according to cannon) vs the TRIBBLE-Seeking Torpedo

Deanna Crashes the Ship (Generations)

I've got to stop because I keep coming up with them. Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't throw a couple whales in there.

It was a scotch taped together plot with an excess of CG special effects. In all honesty, the CG special effects were cool.

What I don't get is why people hate on JJ Trek but accept Nemesis as gospel canon. JJ Trek wasn't perfect, but it wasn't the pile Nemesis was.

And don't get me started on Insurrection.

neoakiraii · April 2013

Seriously Picard killed his freaking double in TNG in that time episode LIKE A BOSS, ohhh but a clone let me take my sweet time and cry.

And young Riker yeah don't mind seeing him shirtless in angel one, but old Riker No No!!! Keep your shirt on....even Old Kirk lerned to keep his shirt on.:eek:

another android Really?

Remans.....hey guys you never ever herd of us not once...but here we are, and we want to destroy Earth because they kept us locked in mines......oh wait.

I mean really The Romulans enslaved the Remans, and cloned Picard....but we're gonna Destroy Earth and not destroy Romulus.

It would of been cooler if the Enterprise saved Romulus from the Remans.

daan2006 · April 2013

neoakiraii wrote: »

Seriously Picard killed his freaking double in TNG in that time episode LIKE A BOSS, ohhh but a clone let me take my sweet time and cry.

ok this was funny

steamwright · April 2013

I found it okay. What I hated was the complete lack of emotional dialog from Data at his most important moment in the film. There were better ways to write it.

erikmodi · April 2013

For me, all the Next Gen movies are kinda "meh." Not as bad as Star Trek V, but nowhere near as awesome as Star Trek II.

psycoticvulcan · April 2013

I like it. It has its share of problems, but so do all the Trek movies. And I thought the Remans were AWESOME!

kain9prime · April 2013

sander233, marc8219, caelrassto, and neoakiraii pretty much summed up why Nemeshiz is horrendous.

I'd also like to add: Troi mind r4pe scene.

/discussion
/thread

paxfederatica · April 2013

One of my key criteria for evaluating/rating Trek episodes and movies is how well they stand up to repeat viewings. IMHO the first JJ film actually holds up better than Nemesis did. Hell, the first 12 minutes of the JJ film alone hold up better than Nemesis.

I loved Nemesis when it first came out, but now I consider it to be right in the middle of the pack, in 5th place at best (behind First Contact, Undiscovered, Khan and JJ-Trek).

mirrorchaos · April 2013

Nemesis? its alright, its no first contact, but its alright.

its half way between a mystery in itself but a 2d villain, at least it wasnt all out crud like the last star trek film before into darkness and after nemesis, it was over the top.

picard saw a ghost from his past, as he put it, a stupid arrogant boy that was more interested in fighting and less interested in wisdom which he stated to Q and to Troi later on.
that uncertainty during diplomacy, picard wanted to get to know this younger clone of himself, but the clone was only interested in his dna then dumping his body in space as there could only be one picard.

that moment of doubt which shinzon was planning on succeeded but only to the point picard got his head on correctly and remembered his old days as an arrogant man, then proceeded to damage both ships in the attempt after the romulans joined the fight to protect the enterprise from an internal matter when the clones actions bore fruit, only that part failed.

Data sacrificed himself and beamed picard away with a portable transporter when picard realized his own pain of loosing his nephew and brother to a house fire a few years earlier, now this, picard had to work it out. Not was all lost though, the memory from data slowly unraveled in the droids mind and things began to return to normal realizing their old friend isnt gone for good.

Compare it to star trek abramscrapverse
romulus star system was on the verge on a supernova due to hobus, spock attempted to save the star and failed, he was pulled into the past to long before tos. the romulan cargo ship with nero onboard came through the singularity and destroyed the kelvin, captain onboard more concerned with naming the kid then saving his ship (what the hell?). the kelvin blew up and escape pods left the area.

years later the cargo ship was posing a significant threat and the enterprise was launched to save the galaxy (a bit hollow dont you think?) after some tense moments, the young crew was given command (yet not trained enough it seems), nero on his vengeance for spock was on his way to vulcan and anyone along the way was destroyed with this large overpowered cargo ship. the enteprise was no match, vulcan was destroyed as spock watched on (why would anyone in their right mind want to destroy a planet full of innocent people who knew nothing of that event in the romulus system 200 years later? and for vengeance just for a whole planet? you consider that something good?).

in the end neros arrogance got the better of him and the enterprise crew launched a mission to destroy the cargo ship (and how would kids from another timeline know how to operate such machinery or read the romulan language even with some assistance? no just better to destroy nero and the consoles, really?)

hravik · April 2013

This is still the best Nemesis review ever.

wraithxii · April 2013

All of the Star Trek movies are bad in one way or another. The original series is Star Trek at its zenith. It has never been and never will be surpassed. JJ's films are just absolute garbage.

cidstorm · April 2013

Nemesis could have been the best TNG movie.

The Picard-Shinzon senate scene was nice, the Data shutting down B4 scene was great, the space battle was one of the best in star trek, but the humor was too over the top, that entire B4 discovery sequence should have been reworked. Shinzon crushing on Troi was terrible, he should have been trying to use her like they did Geordi in Generations. Geordi and Data kept their chemistry, but should have been expanded. Data dying should not have happened. Shinzon's back story begged more exploration, and should have replaced the wedding, but making up my own version is pretty fun so whatever. The Romulan government element could have used more exploration too, and would have made a great follow up movie like SFS or TVH.

6/10 space battles are always great, it was better than Insurrection.

sander233 · April 2013

wraithxii wrote: »

All of the Star Trek movies are bad in one way or another. The original series is Star Trek at its zenith. It has never been and never will be surpassed. JJ's films are just absolute garbage.

Right. Because "Spock's Brain" and "Assignment: Earth" were way better than "The Best of Both Worlds" and "In the Pale Moonlight."

thecosmic1 · April 2013

sander233 wrote: »

Right. Because "Spock's Brain" and "Assignment: Earth" were way better than "The Best of Both Worlds" and "In the Pale Moonlight."

I believe he was talking about the original series movies.

harryhausen · April 2013

As I said in another thread, the only real problem I had with Nemesis is that it was trying so very hard to be Wrath of Khan.

That, and my general criticism of the last three TNG movies, which is that the producers apparently decided they needed to recreate the Kirk/Spock dynamic and so invented this Picard/Data friendship that hadn't really existed previously. TNG was much more of an ensemble show than TOS, so demoting most of the characters to back seat/supporting roles I think hurt the films.

Trying to do the same thing with Janeway/Seven of Nine on Voyager really sucked the air out of that show for me, too.

tacofangs · April 2013

IMO the biggest issue with Nemesis, is Shinzon. The ships were cool, the battles were cool, the story was alright (the cloning stuff was silly). But Shinzon doesn't come across as a leader, he comes off as a pissy emo teenager. Not a worthy villain imo.

thegreendragoon1 · April 2013

Yeah, I'm sure Wraith of Kahn had it's share of silly dialog, but it didn't matter because it was Ricardo Monteban saying it. A villain needs to have a strong actor.

daan2006 · April 2013

hravik wrote: »

This is still the best Nemesis review ever.

already 7 mins in and

daan2006 · April 2013

tacofangs wrote: »

IMO the biggest issue with Nemesis, is Shinzon. The ships were cool, the battles were cool, the story was alright (the cloning stuff was silly). But Shinzon doesn't come across as a leader, he comes off as a pissy emo teenager. Not a worthy villain imo.

I agree fully

What is wrong with Nemesis?

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