i suppose i should have mentioned BO, to avoid this response. yes BO, and torps are good spike too.
well ya, basically. theres 1 second of fire and 2 or 3 of not fireing, vs a constant steady stream from other weapons, that can get countered in real time. its the difference between shooting the health of all 4 shield facings fluctuation over 3 or 4 seconds and blowing out 1 in an instant. theres a heal tic for every shot on all the other weapons, were theres only time for 1 heal tic for CRF DHC damage. its just more effective and harder to tank
I'd say the CRF & DHC would need to be run by a Tac to be spike damage. I stopped running a Sci Raider build w/DHCs b/c of how worthless it is for the skill point investment required (and boredom of the build which is unrelated). I can't see how an Eng would be better suited w/o any buff/debuff captain abilities.
The free resists from fleet shields has been the main problem. But, even w/o considering that there's a huge difference from shield strength w/KDF vet ship using just MACO w/Tactical mode turned off than it turned on and using Omega shields. That's on a ship w/a negative shield mod.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i wrote the book on kirk tastic AtB fed cruiser builds, mid season 5 to season 7 these builds worked great, kinda. but since fleet elite started showing up, and the rep system, their effectiveness has been floored. they have 0 net damage in any mid to high level team play, only any good for pounding pugs.
Drunk even DHCs with CRF are often neutralized without SNB at this point in most mid/high level team play.
However healing has gotten so out of control at this point that DHCs+CRF are actually "pressure damage".
Drunk even DHCs with CRF are often neutralized without SNB at this point in most mid/high level team play.
oh i know, im in some of those mid to high level matches atleast once a week. one lasted almost 2 hours last night. anyone with the right elite shield and full stacks and any healer attention in such a match is invincible. at least i was, entire team focus, 3 subnukes, i survived such a thing 5 of 6 times and didn't die once in my steamrunner. the 1 target we could kill had a similar setup, and it took 3 subnukes every time to kill him.
to me that doesn't make DHCs pressure. that just proves how broken elite shields are. nothing is spike in mid to high level play. its just a combination of everything you can throw at a target, 3 snbs, and luck.
However healing has gotten so out of control at this point that DHCs+CRF are actually "pressure damage".
Drunk even DHCs with CRF are often neutralized without SNB at this point in most mid/high level team play.
Well yeah, they are spike, and they are not spike. Are they still spike against someone with 20+K shields and 70+% resistance? Lol no.
For me spike is the thing that gives the highest possible damage within a few seconds on the right opportunity/timing trying to negate most of the hull/shield resist these days, which is hard. Still pretty doable but requires an enormous about of timing.
that just proves how broken elite shields are. nothing is spike in mid to high level play. its just a combination of everything you can throw at a target, 3 snbs, and luck.
You know, I wanted to come back to this because last night I ran into a Nova Elite team in the queues and I have to tell you, they were using BFAW to really good effect.
I don't know exactly what they were running, but even my Elite Fleet shields weren't safe from 5x ships all BFAWing at once, several of them with APA up. (we had proper healer support as well)
My team won in the end, but it was actually kind of a refreshing match because it was so unexpected, and they put the hurt on more than a few of us before the match was over.
You know, I wanted to come back to this because last night I ran into a Nova Elite team in the queues and I have to tell you, they were using BFAW to really good effect.
I don't know exactly what they were running, but even my Elite Fleet shields weren't safe from 5x ships all BFAWing at once, several of them with APA up. (we had proper healer support as well)
My team won in the end, but it was actually kind of a refreshing match because it was so unexpected, and they put the hurt on more than a few of us before the match was over.
They wiped all 5 of us before we even really knew what happened :P
Two KDF FAW boats. One with Elite Disruptors and one with Phased Polarons. Both with Leech and Tet Glider. Would that point out the "soft" targets in the crowd?
Two KDF FAW boats. One with Elite Disruptors and one with Phased Polarons. Both with Leech and Tet Glider. Would that point out the "soft" targets in the crowd?
You know, I wanted to come back to this because last night I ran into a Nova Elite team in the queues and I have to tell you, they were using BFAW to really good effect.
I don't know exactly what they were running, but even my Elite Fleet shields weren't safe from 5x ships all BFAWing at once, several of them with APA up. (we had proper healer support as well)
My team won in the end, but it was actually kind of a refreshing match because it was so unexpected, and they put the hurt on more than a few of us before the match was over.
when an entire team is built around FAW, suddenly its not just damage shot all at random. i had a feeling 4 of 5 FAW boats could make for an interesting team, but only when the whole team is behind an attack like that will it be effective
You know, I wanted to come back to this because last night I ran into a Nova Elite team in the queues and I have to tell you, they were using BFAW to really good effect.
I don't know exactly what they were running, but even my Elite Fleet shields weren't safe from 5x ships all BFAWing at once, several of them with APA up. (we had proper healer support as well)
My team won in the end, but it was actually kind of a refreshing match because it was so unexpected, and they put the hurt on more than a few of us before the match was over.
I have a feeling I know exactly what they were doing.
Yeah, I know Nova's Fed...was a separate question along the lines of FAW.
The duo that's stripped my shields the fastest were a Krenn/Korath combo running Tet Glider/Leech with Phased Polarons on one and Elite Disruptors on the other. Course, they were running DHCs/Turrets.
You have two guys FAW - watch for which guys are affected the most...thus, you have your soft targets sort of thing. Just wondering about what different folks might bring to a team sort of thing...
I wonder if that new tac accuracy debuff stacks as well, when spammed with FAW.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
when an entire team is built around FAW, suddenly its not just damage shot all at random. i had a feeling 4 of 5 FAW boats could make for an interesting team, but only when the whole team is behind an attack like that will it be effective
That's true.
It's also no different than any other kill strategy IMO though.
Either your entire team is coordinating a kill strike, or you are not likely to score any kills at all.
That goes for Singles, DHCs, and apparently teams built around BFAW.
So a team built around 2x DHC or DHC/BO escorts is likely to look very different from one built around the other two.
Gecko's latest pvp wisdom at podcast UGC starts at about 0:50:00 - 1:16:00
don't have the stomach to get upset about it. Two things: 1) He knows stuff is OP, but won't do anything about it not even in theory. 2) balance is primarily based on 1v1. Kinda explains why its OK to have a player class with zero team contribution.
My apologies sprinkles. Jorf you and your acolytes are wrong, i was wrong to, its not a team game when it comes to balance. Who would have thunk.
Interested bit is that Geko plays engineer...at least on ground.....
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The first set of devs did 100% balance on team play...
and for the last 2 or so years gecko has been undoing it. lol
It's more about his philosophy that he doesn't want nerf anything, because he is afraid of PR. SO they solve it by powercreep to balance the effect.
NErf escorts ? no buff cruisers tanks...:rolleyes:
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
don't have the stomach to get upset about it. Two things: 1) He knows stuff is OP, but won't do anything about it not even in theory. 2) balance is primarily based on 1v1. Kinda explains why its OK to have a player class with zero team contribution.
My apologies sprinkles. Jorf you and your acolytes are wrong, i was wrong to, its not a team game when it comes to balance. Who would have thunk.
I'm listening to the podcast right now. While some of the assumptions about PvP (mostly on the part of the hosts) are pretty funny, I think you might be exaggerating or even misconstruing some of the points he's making. Yeah, I'm going defend him this time.
1. This seems highly exaggerated. The way that I took it is that he'd prefer to improve balance by buffing underpowered powers and items, or introducing new counters than nerf something that people have expended major effort to attain. He never said that nerfs are completely off the table, and in the past Cryptic has nerfed very rare and expensive items like SNB doffs.
2. He never said balance was primarily based off of 1v1, but did state that 1v1 balance cannot be ignored and is "where we begin" (or something to that effect). Perhaps the later is a poor choice of words, but it seemed the thought was that individual ship classes form the basic building blocks you need to start at before looking at group mechanics.
I could be wrong though. Perhaps Gecko will see this thread and give a more detailed explanation of his opinions.
I'm listening to the podcast right now. While some of the assumptions about PvP (mostly on the part of the hosts) are pretty funny, I think you might be exaggerating or even misconstruing some of the points he's making. Yeah, I'm going defend him this time.
1. This seems highly exaggerated. The way that I took it is that he'd prefer to improve balance by buffing underpowered powers and items, or introducing new counters than nerf something that people have expended major effort to attain. He never said that nerfs are completely off the table, and in the past Cryptic has nerfed very rare and expensive items like SNB doffs.
2. He never said balance was primarily based off of 1v1, but did state that 1v1 balance cannot be ignored and is "where we begin" (or something to that effect). Perhaps the later is a poor choice of words, but it seemed the thought was that individual ship classes form the basic building blocks you need to start at before looking at group mechanics.
I could be wrong though. Perhaps Gecko will see this thread and give a more detailed explanation of his opinions.
@1) i m not sure where you take your optimism from, but from what i see in the patch notes and the interview. balancing is to hard the mess is to big, so its been postponed.
@2) its a quote. "primarily about 1v1." curious how that translates into the chances of engs to kill anything in this game in a 1v1? Take the most eng heavy ship Gal-R, all same set up, pick your poison, how is the eng going to come out on top 1v1?
the pve related comments by the guys about no content requiring tanks are spot on. His response that they are looking for a grand solution that fixes that without rewriting old content and design new content with new objectives, tells me to stay out of pvp until this guy fixes the "muddflation" mess he created.
God forbid the mighty escorts might get nerfed, here are some more proc heals and resists, because Geko secretely think they are too tanky, but hi what can you do about it ?!?!?!
Comments
I'd say the CRF & DHC would need to be run by a Tac to be spike damage. I stopped running a Sci Raider build w/DHCs b/c of how worthless it is for the skill point investment required (and boredom of the build which is unrelated). I can't see how an Eng would be better suited w/o any buff/debuff captain abilities.
The free resists from fleet shields has been the main problem. But, even w/o considering that there's a huge difference from shield strength w/KDF vet ship using just MACO w/Tactical mode turned off than it turned on and using Omega shields. That's on a ship w/a negative shield mod.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
They were spike, and they still can be spike.
However healing has gotten so out of control at this point that DHCs+CRF are actually "pressure damage".
Drunk even DHCs with CRF are often neutralized without SNB at this point in most mid/high level team play.
oh i know, im in some of those mid to high level matches atleast once a week. one lasted almost 2 hours last night. anyone with the right elite shield and full stacks and any healer attention in such a match is invincible. at least i was, entire team focus, 3 subnukes, i survived such a thing 5 of 6 times and didn't die once in my steamrunner. the 1 target we could kill had a similar setup, and it took 3 subnukes every time to kill him.
to me that doesn't make DHCs pressure. that just proves how broken elite shields are. nothing is spike in mid to high level play. its just a combination of everything you can throw at a target, 3 snbs, and luck.
Well yeah, they are spike, and they are not spike. Are they still spike against someone with 20+K shields and 70+% resistance? Lol no.
For me spike is the thing that gives the highest possible damage within a few seconds on the right opportunity/timing trying to negate most of the hull/shield resist these days, which is hard. Still pretty doable but requires an enormous about of timing.
SNB created gap + buffs.
Difference between pressure and spike, eh?
You know, I wanted to come back to this because last night I ran into a Nova Elite team in the queues and I have to tell you, they were using BFAW to really good effect.
I don't know exactly what they were running, but even my Elite Fleet shields weren't safe from 5x ships all BFAWing at once, several of them with APA up. (we had proper healer support as well)
My team won in the end, but it was actually kind of a refreshing match because it was so unexpected, and they put the hurt on more than a few of us before the match was over.
They wiped all 5 of us before we even really knew what happened :P
They were Fedboats, with a mix of energy types.
when an entire team is built around FAW, suddenly its not just damage shot all at random. i had a feeling 4 of 5 FAW boats could make for an interesting team, but only when the whole team is behind an attack like that will it be effective
I have a feeling I know exactly what they were doing.
Elite Defense Stovokor
Yeah, I know Nova's Fed...was a separate question along the lines of FAW.
The duo that's stripped my shields the fastest were a Krenn/Korath combo running Tet Glider/Leech with Phased Polarons on one and Elite Disruptors on the other. Course, they were running DHCs/Turrets.
You have two guys FAW - watch for which guys are affected the most...thus, you have your soft targets sort of thing. Just wondering about what different folks might bring to a team sort of thing...
Crippling FAW, Tetryon Dragon...JJ Abrams remakes a modern classic.
That's true.
It's also no different than any other kill strategy IMO though.
Either your entire team is coordinating a kill strike, or you are not likely to score any kills at all.
That goes for Singles, DHCs, and apparently teams built around BFAW.
So a team built around 2x DHC or DHC/BO escorts is likely to look very different from one built around the other two.
Was our first time running the "Death Blossom" and I gatta say it was fun.
It was fun for us as well, we were taken by surprise by the amount of damage you guys were pumping out!
Good match, and hope to see it again sometime soon.
yes we might have to have another match:D
don't have the stomach to get upset about it. Two things: 1) He knows stuff is OP, but won't do anything about it not even in theory. 2) balance is primarily based on 1v1. Kinda explains why its OK to have a player class with zero team contribution.
My apologies sprinkles. Jorf you and your acolytes are wrong, i was wrong to, its not a team game when it comes to balance. Who would have thunk.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Yes! That match was a refreshing change of pace, haven't run into that in a while.
You guys managed to pop me before I even knew what happened
The first set of devs did 100% balance on team play...
and for the last 2 or so years gecko has been undoing it. lol
It's more about his philosophy that he doesn't want nerf anything, because he is afraid of PR. SO they solve it by powercreep to balance the effect.
NErf escorts ? no buff cruisers tanks...:rolleyes:
I'm listening to the podcast right now. While some of the assumptions about PvP (mostly on the part of the hosts) are pretty funny, I think you might be exaggerating or even misconstruing some of the points he's making. Yeah, I'm going defend him this time.
1. This seems highly exaggerated. The way that I took it is that he'd prefer to improve balance by buffing underpowered powers and items, or introducing new counters than nerf something that people have expended major effort to attain. He never said that nerfs are completely off the table, and in the past Cryptic has nerfed very rare and expensive items like SNB doffs.
2. He never said balance was primarily based off of 1v1, but did state that 1v1 balance cannot be ignored and is "where we begin" (or something to that effect). Perhaps the later is a poor choice of words, but it seemed the thought was that individual ship classes form the basic building blocks you need to start at before looking at group mechanics.
I could be wrong though. Perhaps Gecko will see this thread and give a more detailed explanation of his opinions.
Ok at first I thought someone might have TRIBBLE your account....
Then I realized you where making funnies.
@2) its a quote. "primarily about 1v1." curious how that translates into the chances of engs to kill anything in this game in a 1v1? Take the most eng heavy ship Gal-R, all same set up, pick your poison, how is the eng going to come out on top 1v1?
the pve related comments by the guys about no content requiring tanks are spot on. His response that they are looking for a grand solution that fixes that without rewriting old content and design new content with new objectives, tells me to stay out of pvp until this guy fixes the "muddflation" mess he created.
God forbid the mighty escorts might get nerfed, here are some more proc heals and resists, because Geko secretely think they are too tanky, but hi what can you do about it ?!?!?!
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013