I have seen so many times the devs wanting to promote team play. The placement system does anything but promote team play.
Unfortunately, that is the truth. With this event, you are only healing other players just to score more points for yourself than actually helping out a comrade.
IMHO, ever since Cryptic made Fleet Actions and STFs queues, the community has really degraded severely. Because the original STFs were necessary to trust people for more than 2 hours and at the same time you actually had time to socialize. Nowdays, you barely have any conversation.
Unfortunately, that is the truth. With this event, you are only healing other players just to score more points for yourself than actually helping out a comrade.
IMHO, ever since Cryptic made Fleet Actions and STFs queues, the community has really degraded severely. Because the original STFs were necessary to trust people for more than 2 hours and at the same time you actually had time to socialize. Nowdays, you barely have any conversation.
Yeah, which a lot of times ended up someone rage quitting right when you were about to fight the queen, and players beaming out into sector space asking to join a fight against the queen...then you might have to start over again if you find a team who are at the beginning.
and most of the conversations was yelling and screaming.
I see that as a "tank" cruiser, I'm out of luck again.
Why not give scoring points on damage received as well? If I can keep agro on the entity and most of the tholians and survive, why shouldn't I be rewarded?
I have seen so many times the devs wanting to promote team play. The placement system does anything but promote team play.
I don't know about that.
The first step in promoting team play is to actually get players to try hard. If players can half-TRIBBLE it, they will, and if they do, then they certainly won't be working with or helping the team.
The placement system is one of STO's best features. Enlightened self-interest, and all that. Very much un-Trek, but desirable for anyone who isn't content with AFKing in a group setting. It may be a little bit dog-eat-dog, but collective rewards promote the absolute worst of human behavior (namely AFKing, or worse, running a bot to keep anti-AFK measures from detecting you, or even worse, outright griefing such as using Tractor Beam Repulsors to ensure the optional fails in certain STFs, all behavior I've seen outside of the Gear/Dilithium PvE queues).
Unfortunately, that is the truth. With this event, you are only healing other players just to score more points for yourself than actually helping out a comrade.
IMHO, ever since Cryptic made Fleet Actions and STFs queues, the community has really degraded severely. Because the original STFs were necessary to trust people for more than 2 hours and at the same time you actually had time to socialize. Nowdays, you barely have any conversation.
Two separate issues.
One, challenging (or lengthy) content doesn't necessarily promote the kind of social growth you suggest it might; as often as not it causes players to withdraw into the safety of their guilds. But it's definitely good to have something for organized groups to chew on, so totally removing challenging content isn't advisable.
As for content no longer offering the chance to socialize, blame the casuals. When developers are told by players that the players don't have the time to no-life it, the first and easiest thing to cut is the downtime we would normally socialize during. Thankfully, challenging content can still include such downtimes; I personally appreciate it, because I no longer enjoy sitting at the computer for longer than 45-60m stretches, but I do enjoy content that takes longer than that to complete. (PS: if you're casual, don't take it personally; there's always someone more casual than you, who makes you look like a hardcore no-lifer, and that's the demographic developers are designing for these days, sadly).
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
My eng cruiser got first, first time
My sci in a sci focused destroyer got first second time (first run was totally the wrong set up)
My tac escort got first, first time.
If you are capable and PUG the thing you'd be lucky to be in a match with one other capable person, so is the complaint its too difficult or you want everything given to you?
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Think about it for a minute. Is healing team members for personal gain truly promoting team play?
Damage is a bad scoring system because it favors escorts. Ok, I'm on board.
Healing is a bad scoring system because you're only healing teammates to advance your own score. And here's where I get off.
Psychological egoism was seen as the silly pseudo-philosophy it was thousands of years ago when people first came up with it. It's circular non-logic that concludes its own premise using its own premise as proof... but even if we accept it, team play promoted by only self interest in mind is still team play - PE only examines motivations and is completely irrelevant when examining results. In any reward centric environment, rewarding team play with gain is still promoting team play.
Step 1: AoE Spam (CsV, TS, FaW)
Step 2: Proc Heals (Embassy consoles, assimilated set, SDO doffs)
Step 3: Selfish Abilities (do not use APB, use APO for example)
Step 4: Take 1st place
This can be done with any ship. So long as healing counts passive overhealing will be enough to push you over the top usually.
So far I have 3 accolades on 6 characters after 1 run each. It's all about DPS, although AOE damage works well. So science and tactical have a huge edge.
I think healing OTHER ships should give at least double points.
_________________________________________________ [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth] [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk] [D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
So far I have 3 accolades on 6 characters after 1 run each. It's all about DPS, although AOE damage works well. So science and tactical have a huge edge.
I think healing OTHER ships should give at least double points.
That's exactly what STO has gotten to the point of, DPS and now Healing Spam. On top of that, you got people running FAW, Scatter Volley, at the same time they are tossing Gravity Wells, and heals.
So in short, when everyone is doing the same thing to maximize your score, you don't have a chance to get first place. Which means that people who can't get first, have to go out of their way to make a cannned hunt in asking 9 others to make a private queue so you can get first place.
Be nice if there was another way that wasn't so stressful or a way that didn't inconvinence others.
Who cares about the accolade or the trophy? I want the mk11 purple consoles. This is about money, and if you're not first you're a loser. If there were more ways to deliberately TRIBBLE others players, I'd do so. Thats what competitive 'team' play means.
That's exactly what STO has gotten to the point of, DPS and now Healing Spam. On top of that, you got people running FAW, Scatter Volley, at the same time they are tossing Gravity Wells, and heals.
So in short, when everyone is doing the same thing to maximize your score, you don't have a chance to get first place. Which means that people who can't get first, have to go out of their way to make a cannned hunt in asking 9 others to make a private queue so you can get first place.
Be nice if there was another way that wasn't so stressful or a way that didn't inconvinence others.
If someone is getting Stressed over this....they need to take a break from the game.
BTW, just got first place in the CE................on my mule...........with a baddly equipped ship.
Perfect metaphor for my efforts, try hard, hit the wall. Do nothing and hey here you go! Then try the relaxed approach on another toon.... Magic 8 ball says "Try again". :rolleyes:
Be nice if there was another way that wasn't so stressful or a way that didn't inconvinence others.
There is, ditch the "damage done based upon damage taken" aspect of the shockwave, and make it deal something like 250,000 damage or some other ludicrous numerical value that'll put anyone, even dreadnoughts running every survival ability in the book, down. Also, add a substantial score penalty for being destroyed (enough to guarantee that if you're blown up you won't place, unless there's a wipe), which is something that ought to be in every FA now that I think of it.
Somebody getting uppity about canon? No problem! Just take a deep breath, and repeat after me:
There is, ditch the "damage done based upon damage taken" aspect of the shockwave, and make it deal something like 250,000 damage or some other ludicrous numerical value that'll put anyone, even dreadnoughts running every survival ability in the book, down. Also, add a substantial score penalty for being destroyed (enough to guarantee that if you're blown up you won't place, unless there's a wipe), which is something that ought to be in every FA now that I think of it.
Rather have it simpler to have the trophy rewarded after doing 10 Fleet Actions (because players aren't going to stick around for 100 Fleet Actions like those stupid STF accolades) and get a trophy, because First place is meaningless.
If anyone doubts me, look at those who won NWS. Their names scrolled acrossed the screens of everyone in the game, and 99% of people don't care. All for a title, but here we got trophies that nobody will see unless they visited your ship, and even then they aren't going to say "cool trophy".
So just better just to have it for killing the CE 10 times and let it be over with.
I wonder if there is some measurement based on number of kills or 'objective points' or something. I just did a run where according to my parser I had the highest DPS by half again, and just edged out for top healer as well, and still took only second. I'm missing something.
I wonder if there is some measurement based on number of kills or 'objective points' or something. I just did a run where according to my parser I had the highest DPS by half again, and just edged out for top healer as well, and still took only second. I'm missing something.
No offense, but I wish Cryptic didn't advocate those parsers, they ruined STO.
No offense, but I wish Cryptic didn't advocate those parsers, they ruined STO.
I agree, they make it more competitive than it needs to be, particularly for a game where you're supposed to work together. That said the CE is a competition and if I'm not winning I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Victory is life.
I agree, they make it more competitive than it needs to be, particularly for a game where you're supposed to work together. That said the CE is a competition and if I'm not winning I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Victory is life.
Keep your heals cycling and FAW or CSV. those little shards may not count for a lot of points but when you're destroying them ALL you're climbing the ranks.
Mate I've scored first in the KDF Mirror Carrier, the Jem Dread and, a Wells time ship.
Your argument is invalid.
And how is my argument invalid when you are flying DPS heavy ships? :rolleyes:
In fact, many people are advocating flying these ships.
Keep your heals cycling and FAW or CSV. those little shards may not count for a lot of points but when you're destroying them ALL you're climbing the ranks.
Doesn't always work when there are a couple of other Escorts there using the same technique.
Interesting... I have gotten the 1st Place trophy with 2 Cruisers and a Science Vessel... Hmmmm...
And today I've gotten First place on two mules with common equipment. :rolleyes:
I never said it was impossible, but their scoring system really doesn't benefit Cruisers and Science ships like they should. And those who are wanting the CE Trophy, won't get it. Which would be nice if there was alternate ways of getting it.
For example, in Winter Wonderland in the PvP Race, you could get it immediately getting first place, or getting it after a couple of runs. This is what Cryptic should do. Because there are obviously still problems with the new scoring system.
Just be nice if there was alternatives than having to struggle for that one thing.
It's stupid they still have it that in order to get the CE Accolade, you have to be in first place. Which means you need to be in an escort.
Thanks for ignoring Cruisers and Science Ship captains, Cryptic. :mad:
EDIT: Seems Branflakes Misunderstood, this is about the First Place Trophy / Accolade you get doing Fleet Actions.
And that STO has evolved to where its about DPS and Heal Spamming.
Azurian, you seem like a good guy, so I'll tell you, you're worried about nothing. CC is ridiculously easy. If you've got an "OK" build you can easily get 1st in a pug.
Heck, I get 1st in private matches with my fleet. So it's definitely possible to get the accolade in a cruiser, or any ship- one of my fleeties has gotten 1st several times in an Atrox.
I've only managed to come in first place once so far, with my Fed Science character. Trouble is, he flies a Wells class, so there's nowhere for him to put the trophy! >_<
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
I've only managed to come in first place once so far, with my Fed Science character. Trouble is, he flies a Wells class, so there's nowhere for him to put the trophy! >_<
I use the TOS interior, just for something different, and the trophy is about twice as high as the conference room it goes in. It clips into the ceiling, lol.
Supposedly they're re-doing the trophy to make it look more like the new entity. I hope we get to choose between old and new, though.
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Unfortunately, that is the truth. With this event, you are only healing other players just to score more points for yourself than actually helping out a comrade.
IMHO, ever since Cryptic made Fleet Actions and STFs queues, the community has really degraded severely. Because the original STFs were necessary to trust people for more than 2 hours and at the same time you actually had time to socialize. Nowdays, you barely have any conversation.
very strange....
Yes, unlike how it use to be where it was about DPS, and better off watching your teammates Burn so you can out DPS them.
Yeah, which a lot of times ended up someone rage quitting right when you were about to fight the queen, and players beaming out into sector space asking to join a fight against the queen...then you might have to start over again if you find a team who are at the beginning.
and most of the conversations was yelling and screaming.
Why not give scoring points on damage received as well? If I can keep agro on the entity and most of the tholians and survive, why shouldn't I be rewarded?
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
I don't know about that.
The first step in promoting team play is to actually get players to try hard. If players can half-TRIBBLE it, they will, and if they do, then they certainly won't be working with or helping the team.
The placement system is one of STO's best features. Enlightened self-interest, and all that. Very much un-Trek, but desirable for anyone who isn't content with AFKing in a group setting. It may be a little bit dog-eat-dog, but collective rewards promote the absolute worst of human behavior (namely AFKing, or worse, running a bot to keep anti-AFK measures from detecting you, or even worse, outright griefing such as using Tractor Beam Repulsors to ensure the optional fails in certain STFs, all behavior I've seen outside of the Gear/Dilithium PvE queues).
Two separate issues.
One, challenging (or lengthy) content doesn't necessarily promote the kind of social growth you suggest it might; as often as not it causes players to withdraw into the safety of their guilds. But it's definitely good to have something for organized groups to chew on, so totally removing challenging content isn't advisable.
As for content no longer offering the chance to socialize, blame the casuals. When developers are told by players that the players don't have the time to no-life it, the first and easiest thing to cut is the downtime we would normally socialize during. Thankfully, challenging content can still include such downtimes; I personally appreciate it, because I no longer enjoy sitting at the computer for longer than 45-60m stretches, but I do enjoy content that takes longer than that to complete. (PS: if you're casual, don't take it personally; there's always someone more casual than you, who makes you look like a hardcore no-lifer, and that's the demographic developers are designing for these days, sadly).
Actually Carriers are the best for it.
My sci in a sci focused destroyer got first second time (first run was totally the wrong set up)
My tac escort got first, first time.
If you are capable and PUG the thing you'd be lucky to be in a match with one other capable person, so is the complaint its too difficult or you want everything given to you?
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Damage is a bad scoring system because it favors escorts. Ok, I'm on board.
Healing is a bad scoring system because you're only healing teammates to advance your own score. And here's where I get off.
Psychological egoism was seen as the silly pseudo-philosophy it was thousands of years ago when people first came up with it. It's circular non-logic that concludes its own premise using its own premise as proof... but even if we accept it, team play promoted by only self interest in mind is still team play - PE only examines motivations and is completely irrelevant when examining results. In any reward centric environment, rewarding team play with gain is still promoting team play.
Step 1: AoE Spam (CsV, TS, FaW)
Step 2: Proc Heals (Embassy consoles, assimilated set, SDO doffs)
Step 3: Selfish Abilities (do not use APB, use APO for example)
Step 4: Take 1st place
This can be done with any ship. So long as healing counts passive overhealing will be enough to push you over the top usually.
I think healing OTHER ships should give at least double points.
[Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
[Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
[D'Mented][D'Licious]
Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
This...support actions need to get a huge buff. I'm sorry but the scaling of scoring in this game is wayyy wayyy off.
That's exactly what STO has gotten to the point of, DPS and now Healing Spam. On top of that, you got people running FAW, Scatter Volley, at the same time they are tossing Gravity Wells, and heals.
So in short, when everyone is doing the same thing to maximize your score, you don't have a chance to get first place. Which means that people who can't get first, have to go out of their way to make a cannned hunt in asking 9 others to make a private queue so you can get first place.
Be nice if there was another way that wasn't so stressful or a way that didn't inconvinence others.
If someone is getting Stressed over this....they need to take a break from the game.
BTW, just got first place in the CE................on my mule...........with a baddly equipped ship.
Perfect metaphor for my efforts, try hard, hit the wall. Do nothing and hey here you go! Then try the relaxed approach on another toon.... Magic 8 ball says "Try again". :rolleyes:
There is, ditch the "damage done based upon damage taken" aspect of the shockwave, and make it deal something like 250,000 damage or some other ludicrous numerical value that'll put anyone, even dreadnoughts running every survival ability in the book, down. Also, add a substantial score penalty for being destroyed (enough to guarantee that if you're blown up you won't place, unless there's a wipe), which is something that ought to be in every FA now that I think of it.
Spock's Brain.
Rather have it simpler to have the trophy rewarded after doing 10 Fleet Actions (because players aren't going to stick around for 100 Fleet Actions like those stupid STF accolades) and get a trophy, because First place is meaningless.
If anyone doubts me, look at those who won NWS. Their names scrolled acrossed the screens of everyone in the game, and 99% of people don't care. All for a title, but here we got trophies that nobody will see unless they visited your ship, and even then they aren't going to say "cool trophy".
So just better just to have it for killing the CE 10 times and let it be over with.
No offense, but I wish Cryptic didn't advocate those parsers, they ruined STO.
I agree, they make it more competitive than it needs to be, particularly for a game where you're supposed to work together. That said the CE is a competition and if I'm not winning I need to figure out what I'm doing wrong. Victory is life.
Mate I've scored first in the KDF Mirror Carrier, the Jem Dread and, a Wells time ship.
Your argument is invalid.
Keep your heals cycling and FAW or CSV. those little shards may not count for a lot of points but when you're destroying them ALL you're climbing the ranks.
Just want to say I got first last night in a Vesta on my Engi toon lol... So no you don't have to be in an escort...
Every 20 hours so it will take 11 days and 16 hours minimum to get all 14 Shards. Will take most people 14 days to get it.
A vesta is an escort with what little science has to offer stacked on top of it. :P
Interesting... I have gotten the 1st Place trophy with 2 Cruisers and a Science Vessel... Hmmmm...
And how is my argument invalid when you are flying DPS heavy ships? :rolleyes:
In fact, many people are advocating flying these ships.
Doesn't always work when there are a couple of other Escorts there using the same technique.
And today I've gotten First place on two mules with common equipment. :rolleyes:
I never said it was impossible, but their scoring system really doesn't benefit Cruisers and Science ships like they should. And those who are wanting the CE Trophy, won't get it. Which would be nice if there was alternate ways of getting it.
For example, in Winter Wonderland in the PvP Race, you could get it immediately getting first place, or getting it after a couple of runs. This is what Cryptic should do. Because there are obviously still problems with the new scoring system.
Just be nice if there was alternatives than having to struggle for that one thing.
Azurian, you seem like a good guy, so I'll tell you, you're worried about nothing. CC is ridiculously easy. If you've got an "OK" build you can easily get 1st in a pug.
Heck, I get 1st in private matches with my fleet. So it's definitely possible to get the accolade in a cruiser, or any ship- one of my fleeties has gotten 1st several times in an Atrox.
So here's some proof if you'd like.
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
I use the TOS interior, just for something different, and the trophy is about twice as high as the conference room it goes in. It clips into the ceiling, lol.
Supposedly they're re-doing the trophy to make it look more like the new entity. I hope we get to choose between old and new, though.