You'll never get the Romulan Empire that you want. CBS and Paramount destroyed that.
Canon says that Spock spent 19 years on Romulus preaching Unification. All those years had am impact. Just as Trek changed between TOS and TNG we have to accept that it's changed between Nemesis and STO's era. We're not playing 2370 Trek, or 2267 Trek, or 2151 Trek. We're playing 2409 Trek and some things have changed.
Although Stahl's last interview may hint otherwise on the T5 Connie, I keep thinking that overall, the game shouldn't reflect iconic TOS/TNG/DS9 etc. but that those series should be the subject of mini-expansions.
The main game shouldn't really have anything in iconic form. If Cryptic erred, it was probably in making the iconic ships and costumes too easy and widespread.
However, I think there's plenty of room for side games where the classic approaches are the focus. I keep going back to the Decipher card game because that's the closest thing I can see to a F2P MMO.
They had a TOS Enterprise that was vastly outgunned, outpaced, etc. by the TNG ship. But, hey, if you wanted a ship that could start in the past or appear via temporal rift, it could do that. It had perks associated with the TOS crew and officers, who did have awesome perks of their own. You could get buff combos with Kirk aboard the TOS Enterprise that no other ship could get and temporarily overpower other ships. You could use the ship to get Kirk into play faster.
It was generally somewhat tricky to get a ship into the 23rd century in the card game so it was helpful to have ships that started there. Likewise the Delta Quadrant or Gamma Quadrant without a wormhole. (Which was a perk for Voyager and the Prometheus in the card game.)
That's a lot of how I'd look at future expansions: pitting players in situations, places, and times where they need alternative resources.
So... The Devidian portal on Drosana reopens and you have to do stuff in the 23rd century Neutral Zones but you go back without a ship and need to use ships waiting for you there.
Or maybe have alternate character progressions where you can start off as a level 25 native of another time period, play for 10 levels there, and then get swept to the present and folded in, bringing with you era specific traits, skills, cosmetic options, etc.
We all get why Cryptic has decided not to give us a full faction and produced this "fraction" instead. There's no question that it is easier for them, more cost-effective and still (hopefully) gives those people who requested it (not me) at least a portion of what they had hoped for.
If somebody offers you a beer and then proceeds to give you water, it's your own fault that you expected beer?
If someone offers you a Romulan faction and only gives you a Romulan species, it's your own fault for expecting a Romulan faction?
What kind of an argument is that? We were told we were getting a third faction but we didn't get a third faction. Personally, I don't care that we didn't. But the argument that we should be happy we got anything at all even if it wasn't what were expecting is stupid.
What other business is allowed to tell people that they are going to give them something, then give them something else and not be subject to complaints? I wish I could go through life doing that, telling everybody it's too hard and expensive to give them the things I said I would. Damn life would be easy. Want me to bring the chips for the party? Stale crackers anyone?
We all get why Cryptic has decided not to give us a full faction and produced this "fraction" instead. There's no question that it is easier for them, more cost-effective and still (hopefully) gives those people who requested it (not me) at least a portion of what they had hoped for.
Dude, you're trying way too hard now. :rolleyes:
If somebody offers you a beer and then proceeds to give you water, it's your own fault that you expected beer?
If someone offers you a Romulan faction and only gives you a Romulan species, it's your own fault for expecting a Romulan faction?
What kind of an argument is that? We were told we were getting a third faction but we didn't get a third faction. Personally, I don't care that we didn't. But the argument that we should be happy we got anything at all even if it wasn't what were expecting is stupid.
What other business is allowed to tell people that they are going to give them something, then give them something else and not be subject to complaints? I wish I could go through life doing that, telling everybody it's too hard and expensive to give them the things I said I would. Damn life would be easy. Want me to bring the chips for the party? Stale crackers anyone?
More like discovering they've given you a light beer, or one of those citrus beers; it's not what you were expecting, but it's still technically beer.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste. The things we are not getting are of no real importance to me; therefore I consider them to be a proper faction. They're just done differently from the other factions (regular beer).
Having something to drink when you're thirsty is better than having nothing to drink.
So we're down to the "be happy you're getting anything" argument ?
That's all that's left after the "game is doing great" , "we're staffing up" , "now you'll see what we can do" + almost 7 months of waiting ?
Be happy you're getting anything ?
Really ?
Oh and by the way , we sure are getting something ... , and that something is the continued twisting of the truth ... :
DStahl form the P1 podcast :
A Romulan can absolutely go and create a fleet by themselves and they can decide who they want to be in that fleet.
While the truth (as I understand it) is :
You can make a Fleet with only romulan chars.... BUT behold, you CAN NOT make a Fleet with Rom-Fed AND Rom-KDF Characters together!
They are still Fed / KDF chars ... but he left out this 'little detail' in his P1 interview .
Oh and btw Cosmic1 , what's up with you ?
You used to pop in here and there , offered helpful advice to a lot of players , now suddenly out of the blue you're on a constant argumentative streak . This is not the 'you' that I sorta got to know on the forums .
So we're down to the "be happy you're getting anything" argument ?
That's all that's left after the "game is doing great" , "we're staffing up" , "now you'll see what we can do" + almost 7 months of waiting ?
Be happy you're getting anything ?
Really ?
Oh and by the way , we sure are getting something ... , and that something is the continued twisting of the truth ... :
While the truth (as I understand it) is :
You can make a Fleet with only romulan chars.... BUT behold, you CAN NOT make a Fleet with Rom-Fed AND Rom-KDF Characters together!
They are still Fed / KDF chars ... but he left out this 'little detail' in his P1 interview .
Oh and btw Cosmic1 , what's up with you ?
You used to pop in here and there , offered helpful advice to a lot of players , now suddenly out of the blue you're on a constant argumentative streak . This is not the 'you' that I sorta got to know on the forums .
The fact that Romulans can make their own 'Romulan only' fleets, but can't invite Romulans allied with the other faction, is straight out of the LoR 'Ask Cryptic' article (written by Dan himself no less). There has been no effort to conceal the fact.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste.
Not really; it'll become more obvious when they start introducing more playable races in the same manner, with a tutorial leading into the choice of picking a faction.
Hopefully not every race they do this with is so horribly botched, though I fully expect freedom fighting Ferengi, Cardassians, Jem'hadar and, yes, even freedom fighting Borg drones.
I mean, they obviously assume the playerbase is so naive that they'll need good guys and bad guys plainly labeled.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
More like discovering they've given you a light beer, or one of those citrus beers; it's not what you were expecting, but it's still technically beer.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste. The things we are not getting are of no real importance to me; therefore I consider them to be a proper faction. They're just done differently from the other factions (regular beer).
This. Although these things are important to me, I have been wanting Romulans since I started playing this game.
So they are not the same Romulans that you knew? As has been stated, things change. TNG had a Klingon serving on the bridge of the Enterprise. When I saw my first TNG episode and saw Worf, I didn't start throwing a fit about how he should not be there or wonder loudly to anyone who would listen how he could possibly have the pure gall to call himself a true Klingon while being nothing more than a Federation bootlicker! Nope, I let the new story be told to me and enjoyed the ride.
I am glad we are getting Romulans. They are different than the Romulans of the TV series. I am not angry about this.
Haters gonna hate, but I am getting tired of reading relentless vitriol for something that hasn't even come out yet. I say it IS a faction. "No it's not, a faction is this: blah blah blah.." Well your definition differs from mine. Enjoy the ride or get off the train, your whining is annoying.
"I want to eat chicken."
"Here is some fried chicken!"
*Throws plate across room*
"I wanted BAKED CHICKEN! THIS IS ALL WRONG! GO MAKE IT AGAIN!!"
How would Federation fans feel if they had to play citizens of the Federation (not officers in Starfleet) who were out to cleanse all non-Federation races from the galaxy?
Funny, I thought that was exactly what the Federation is doing in STO. :rolleyes:
The fact that Romulans can make their own 'Romulan only' fleets, but can't invite Romulans allied with the other faction, is straight out of the LoR 'Ask Cryptic' article (written by Dan himself no less). There has been no effort to conceal the fact.
When you are specifically being asked to clarify an issue and you only answer half an answer then what would you call that ?
I'm sure the Podcast ppl have read the LoR Ask Cryptic' article too , and while the question may have come from them or from a listener , the answer remains the same .
Someone else might come along and say -- "hey they have listened to the fans and now we're getting 'normal' Romulan Fleets" -- based on "we're listening to feedback and making adjustments" .
No , no it isn't .
There are certain parameters . The Rommy's meet some while fail to meet others .
If you try to use your imagination really hard , you can believe you can fly a BOP as a Fed .
But that's not how things work ... .
*Throws plate across room*
"I wanted BAKED CHICKEN! THIS IS ALL WRONG! GO MAKE IT AGAIN!!"
I would think if your intent was to make money off my desire to eat chicken, you'd have the business acumen to at least ask, "what kind of chicken would you prefer?"
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I would think if your intent was to make money off my desire to eat chicken, you'd have the business acumen to at least ask, "what kind of chicken would you prefer?"
I'm not trying to sell you chicken. I am giving you the chicken for free, hoping to sell you a side of potatoes or a drink. I have some options available in those areas, but the free chicken is fried. I am not forcing you to eat it.
...
So... The Devidian portal on Drosana reopens and you have to do stuff in the 23rd century Neutral Zones but you go back without a ship and need to use ships waiting for you there.
...
This is the best suggestion I've read all week.
Forget the possibility of PvP, for so much has become pay-to-win, never to be balanced. Forget the promise of exploration and research, for in the grim dark future of Star Trek Online there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting publishers.
I'm not trying to sell you chicken. I am giving you the chicken for free, hoping to sell you a side of potatoes or a drink. I have some options available in those areas, but the free chicken is fried. I am not forcing you to eat it.
That's under the assumption that the two choices are equally palpatable to the person accustoemd to the 'chicken'
It's more like the difference between grilled chicken and raw chicken. Sure, I'm sure someone out there likes raw chicken, but when I stepped into the continental resturaunt and ordered chicken, I sure as heck didn't expect a raw chicken breats to be plopped onto my plate, and quite frankly, who could blame someone who likes chicken if that happened?
And enough of this "It's free and you don't have to play it if you don't want to" nonsense. I think you would be hard pressed to find even a FTP individual who had not bought anything with zen, either by buying the zen outright or by converting it from dilithium. We aren't paying for the chips, we are paying for the forks and knives and plates. And lets be honest, each and every one of us has invested untold hours into this game. We are invested in it and have a stake in it even if we hypothetically did not pay a single red cent or collect the smallest portion of dilithium. If our investment of time, money, and effort is threatened we have every justification to complain.
No , no it isn't .
There are certain parameters . The Rommy's meet some while fail to meet others .
If you try to use your imagination really hard , you can believe you can fly a BOP as a Fed .
But that's not how things work ... .
Yes, meets some parameters, fails to meet others. The question is, does it meet the important parameters.
That's under the assumption that the two choices are equally palpatable to the person accustoemd to the 'chicken'
It's more like the difference between grilled chicken and raw chicken. Sure, I'm sure someone out there likes raw chicken, but when I stepped into the continental resturaunt and ordered chicken, I sure as heck didn't expect a raw chicken breats to be plopped onto my plate, and quite frankly, who could blame someone who likes chicken if that happened?
And enough of this "It's free and you don't have to play it if you don't want to" nonsense. I think you would be hard pressed to find even a FTP individual who had not bought anything with zen, either by buying the zen outright or by converting it from dilithium. We aren't paying for the chips, we are paying for the forks and knives and plates. And lets be honest, each and every one of us has invested untold hours into this game. We are invested in it and have a stake in it even if we hypothetically did not pay a single red cent or collect the smallest portion of dilithium. If our investment of time, money, and effort is threatened we have every justification to complain.
How is it threatened by the release of content that you THINK should be a certain way turns out to not be the way you THOUGHT? My ships, characters or the way I enjoy the game for the toons I already have won't change a bit. And you ARE paying for chips, NOT silverware and plates. You do not need a single item from the C-store to be viable in endgame, that is a fact.
I made an analogy and now I've had three people pick it apart and twist the meaning, just because they just don't like what Cryptic has done to them by not releasing Romulnas exactly the way they were in the TV series. News flash kids: this ain't the TV series.
Everyone has a right to complain, this is true. What I am saying is you are complaining about something: A)you haven't even tried yet
B)that is a bit different than what YOU were expecting
C)(Yes, I'll say it again, and it IS still valid) you are getting for free
I am CERTAIN that Cryptic has noticed the complaints of all those who have been wronged by the content to come, so my point is: your concern has been noted. Now you are just waving a hater flag to be argumentative. Time to move on.
No , no it isn't .
There are certain parameters . The Rommy's meet some while fail to meet others .
If you try to use your imagination really hard , you can believe you can fly a BOP as a Fed .
But that's not how things work ... .
At this point in time this thread boils down to about a dozen or so different people constantly arguing the same point over and over. A dozen means nothing in the grand scheme of things. By now those who want to see the Rom Faction coming into the game as a travesty will do so no matter what. Nothing we say is going to change that. We're all just sweeping angst around here, IMO, so I'll move on to more important subjects.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
More like discovering they've given you a light beer, or one of those citrus beers; it's not what you were expecting, but it's still technically beer.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste. The things we are not getting are of no real importance to me; therefore I consider them to be a proper faction. They're just done differently from the other factions (regular beer).
I agree.
another example would be asking for soda and getting diet soda instead of regular.
another example would be asking for soda and getting diet soda instead of regular.
But requests for a Romulan faction were not so nearly "generic" as asking for beer, soda or chicken. Romulans (aside from Trek 2009 where they were strange tribal mad men), are a very distinct and specific culture. A faction, in STO is banded together and the game enables certain levels of cooperation.
What we are getting is a Cryptic invented culture, that already existed for other groups (Bajorans, Maquis, etc.). There was no need to merge the Ta'lShiar and the RSE. There was no need to make them the irredeemable bad guys. We could easily have had the RSE without Romulus and told an interesting story about rebuilding the Senate, maybe even some crazy inclusive thing with "barbarian" (alien) senators as Cesar did.
For the game functionality, when we can not create fleets that include Romulans from both Fed/KDF sides, then you are not truly a faction. We can also not cross team for events that are specific to Fed/KDF. This means that we are really Fed/KDF members with forehead ridges and Warbirds.
We asked for something specific, then Cryptic went and made whatever they wanted to make.
[SIGPIC]Want to know more about Cryptic's hidden lottery odds and outcomes? Read my posts below.[/SIGPIC] Lock Boxes: The true value - (thread link) Jem'Hadar Bug Odds - (thread link) Galor Creation Rate - (thread link) Find me in TSW - TSW Chronicle Profile
But requests for a Romulan faction were not so nearly "generic" as asking for beer, soda or chicken. Romulans (aside from Trek 2009 where they were strange tribal mad men), are a very distinct and specific culture. A faction, in STO is banded together and the game enables certain levels of cooperation.
What we are getting is a Cryptic invented culture, that already existed for other groups (Bajorans, Maquis, etc.). There was no need to merge the Ta'lShiar and the RSE. There was no need to make them the irredeemable bad guys. We could easily have had the RSE without Romulus and told an interesting story about rebuilding the Senate, maybe even some crazy inclusive thing with "barbarian" (alien) senators as Cesar did.
For the game functionality, when we can not create fleets that include Romulans from both Fed/KDF sides, then you are not truly a faction. We can also not cross team for events that are specific to Fed/KDF. This means that we are really Fed/KDF members with forehead ridges and Warbirds.
We asked for something specific, then Cryptic went and made whatever they wanted to make.
Really? that's not what I was voting for when I voted Romulan on the pool.
It's probable that YOU voted for the old RSE but it's not what I voted for.
I think you would be hard pressed to find even a FTP individual who had not bought anything with zen, either by buying the zen outright or by converting it from dilithium.
Ahem. (raises hand) I used to buy things on the dil market with my dil; now I contribute it to Fleet projects. There's nothing requiring Zen in this game that I find needful for my enjoyment.
It's probably been said already, but it's rather obvious why they're doing this; to make up ship numbers. If you compare how many free ships FED and KDF players have, and then look at (what seems to be) the five free ships that the FRR has, they're significantly lower in number.
What's the best way to solve that? Give FRR players designs from the Federation and Klingon Fleets. I can't remember the exact numbers, but there are only a limited number of ships being brought with this update. We know we've got at least 5 Romulan designs, a 6th if you include a Shuttle (we've not seen one yet, but it would be impossible to do the Vault FE without one).
On top of that, we're likely going to see the Romulan Scout Ship and Romulan Science Ship (even though they're practically the same model) along with the ENT-era Bird of Prey and the Scimitar (likely C-Store). I'd expect a total of three store ships for the moment.
It's a safe bet that FED players will get another new ship too (don't they always) and I'd be amazed if there weren't at least three (inc a Ferasan ship) for the KDF. That's quite a number already, and considering the work that goes into a ship (esp with all the shield/hull textures through various sets) I can't see that many Romulan ships being available to us.
It sucks, but it's the way Cryptic have decided to do it, so lets all join together and suck it up. :rolleyes:
Ahem. (raises hand) I used to buy things on the dil market with my dil; now I contribute it to Fleet projects. There's nothing requiring Zen in this game that I find needful for my enjoyment.
Bank / Inventory Slots? Bridge Officer Slots? Character Slots? Costumes? None of it?
It's probably been said already, but it's rather obvious why they're doing this; to make up ship numbers. If you compare how many free ships FED and KDF players have, and then look at (what seems to be) the five free ships that the FRR has, they're significantly lower in number.
Brandon and Archon have already confirmed that the Roms have more then 5 ships. Those 5 just happened to be the ships discussed in that first blog. There will be more blogs forthcoming - including eventual blogs with ship stats.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
People asked for "Romulans" they were asking for the Romulans that we'd seen on screen for ~40 years.
Instead we got a Vulcan.
5 appearances out of 98 ENT episodes.
3 appearances out of 80 TOS episodes.
3 appearances out of 22 TAS episodes.
3 appearances out of 6 TOS movies.
21 appearances out of 178 TNG episodes.
2 appearances out of 4 TNG movies.
16 appearances out of 176 DS9 episodes.
6 appearances out of 172 VOY episodes.
In several cases - those appearances are the lightest - the smallest - barely worth mentioning - appearances by Romulans. A total of 59 appearances out of a possible 736. Appearances ranging from 2152 through 2379. The Romulans throughout those 227 years changed. The Romulans in Nemesis were not the same Romulans from Minefield. We left them in 2379 "on screen" - 30 years ago, as far as the story in STO is concerned....and the story has progressed in those 30 years.
So in saying that folks were asking for Romulans that they saw on the screen for forty years - well, which Romulans they saw, eh? Cause you know, there were the posts in threads from folks looking for TOS Romulans more than TNG Romulans. Look at the various signatures and avatars...you'll see it there clear as day.
The Romulans have received more love from STO than they did from Star Trek.
Admittedly, I'm not happy that they're part of D'Tan and Company. I didn't mind they weren't RSE...but c'mon...D'Tan...really? But hey, STO is continuing the story...and...they're Romulans. Who says their actions have to reflect their goals thought? It's a MMORPG...want to play a subgroup of the subfaction that is just playing along and biding their time? You can do that. Tada! Yeah...
There will be more blogs forthcoming - including eventual blogs with ship stats.
And the awesome fun to be had with rampant speculation between the first post showing the ship and the second post with the stats that follows...those are the best threads.
You'll never get the Romulan Empire that you want. CBS and Paramount destroyed that.
Canon says that Spock spent 19 years on Romulus preaching Unification. All those years had am impact. Just as Trek changed between TOS and TNG we have to accept that it's changed between Nemesis and STO's era. We're not playing 2370 Trek, or 2267 Trek, or 2151 Trek. We're playing 2409 Trek and some things have changed.
That's not the problem I'm trying to argue. -_-
I am upset about the lore, and them turning all of our favorite hobgoblins into a race of Luke Skywalkers, but what I'm more upset about is the fact that they're using other factions ships to fill a hole in a faction that doesn't even exist yet.
Tbut what I'm more upset about is the fact that they're using other factions ships to fill a hole in a faction that doesn't even exist yet.
You're assuming there's a hole. You have zero information as to how many Rom ships will be in the game, but you want to assume there's going to be a hole.
The Devs have said every IP Rom ship ever seen will be in the game. They've said they're talking with CBS this week to decide which brand new types of Rom ships will be added to the game. They've said the 5 examples in the blog weren't all the ships available for Roms - they were just the ships chosen for that particular blog.
Allowing cross-faction ships wasn't done due to necessity. It was done because tens of thousands of fans have spent hundreds of dollars on those ships - all those Fed fans don't want their money to go to waste. That's not a bad thing, nor does it require anyone to use a cross-faction ship if they don't want to.
Your argument essentially comes down to: "I don't want to do it so no one else should be able to do it." Such arguments only tend to work when you're the dictator of a Communist country.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Comments
Although Stahl's last interview may hint otherwise on the T5 Connie, I keep thinking that overall, the game shouldn't reflect iconic TOS/TNG/DS9 etc. but that those series should be the subject of mini-expansions.
The main game shouldn't really have anything in iconic form. If Cryptic erred, it was probably in making the iconic ships and costumes too easy and widespread.
However, I think there's plenty of room for side games where the classic approaches are the focus. I keep going back to the Decipher card game because that's the closest thing I can see to a F2P MMO.
They had a TOS Enterprise that was vastly outgunned, outpaced, etc. by the TNG ship. But, hey, if you wanted a ship that could start in the past or appear via temporal rift, it could do that. It had perks associated with the TOS crew and officers, who did have awesome perks of their own. You could get buff combos with Kirk aboard the TOS Enterprise that no other ship could get and temporarily overpower other ships. You could use the ship to get Kirk into play faster.
It was generally somewhat tricky to get a ship into the 23rd century in the card game so it was helpful to have ships that started there. Likewise the Delta Quadrant or Gamma Quadrant without a wormhole. (Which was a perk for Voyager and the Prometheus in the card game.)
That's a lot of how I'd look at future expansions: pitting players in situations, places, and times where they need alternative resources.
So... The Devidian portal on Drosana reopens and you have to do stuff in the 23rd century Neutral Zones but you go back without a ship and need to use ships waiting for you there.
Or maybe have alternate character progressions where you can start off as a level 25 native of another time period, play for 10 levels there, and then get swept to the present and folded in, bringing with you era specific traits, skills, cosmetic options, etc.
Dude, you're trying way too hard now. :rolleyes:
If somebody offers you a beer and then proceeds to give you water, it's your own fault that you expected beer?
If someone offers you a Romulan faction and only gives you a Romulan species, it's your own fault for expecting a Romulan faction?
What kind of an argument is that? We were told we were getting a third faction but we didn't get a third faction. Personally, I don't care that we didn't. But the argument that we should be happy we got anything at all even if it wasn't what were expecting is stupid.
What other business is allowed to tell people that they are going to give them something, then give them something else and not be subject to complaints? I wish I could go through life doing that, telling everybody it's too hard and expensive to give them the things I said I would. Damn life would be easy. Want me to bring the chips for the party? Stale crackers anyone?
More like discovering they've given you a light beer, or one of those citrus beers; it's not what you were expecting, but it's still technically beer.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste. The things we are not getting are of no real importance to me; therefore I consider them to be a proper faction. They're just done differently from the other factions (regular beer).
So we're down to the "be happy you're getting anything" argument ?
That's all that's left after the "game is doing great" , "we're staffing up" , "now you'll see what we can do" + almost 7 months of waiting ?
Be happy you're getting anything ?
Really ?
Oh and by the way , we sure are getting something ... , and that something is the continued twisting of the truth ... :
While the truth (as I understand it) is :
You can make a Fleet with only romulan chars.... BUT behold, you CAN NOT make a Fleet with Rom-Fed AND Rom-KDF Characters together!
They are still Fed / KDF chars ... but he left out this 'little detail' in his P1 interview .
Oh and btw Cosmic1 , what's up with you ?
You used to pop in here and there , offered helpful advice to a lot of players , now suddenly out of the blue you're on a constant argumentative streak . This is not the 'you' that I sorta got to know on the forums .
The fact that Romulans can make their own 'Romulan only' fleets, but can't invite Romulans allied with the other faction, is straight out of the LoR 'Ask Cryptic' article (written by Dan himself no less). There has been no effort to conceal the fact.
Hopefully not every race they do this with is so horribly botched, though I fully expect freedom fighting Ferengi, Cardassians, Jem'hadar and, yes, even freedom fighting Borg drones.
I mean, they obviously assume the playerbase is so naive that they'll need good guys and bad guys plainly labeled.
This. Although these things are important to me, I have been wanting Romulans since I started playing this game.
So they are not the same Romulans that you knew? As has been stated, things change. TNG had a Klingon serving on the bridge of the Enterprise. When I saw my first TNG episode and saw Worf, I didn't start throwing a fit about how he should not be there or wonder loudly to anyone who would listen how he could possibly have the pure gall to call himself a true Klingon while being nothing more than a Federation bootlicker! Nope, I let the new story be told to me and enjoyed the ride.
I am glad we are getting Romulans. They are different than the Romulans of the TV series. I am not angry about this.
Haters gonna hate, but I am getting tired of reading relentless vitriol for something that hasn't even come out yet. I say it IS a faction. "No it's not, a faction is this: blah blah blah.." Well your definition differs from mine. Enjoy the ride or get off the train, your whining is annoying.
"I want to eat chicken."
"Here is some fried chicken!"
*Throws plate across room*
"I wanted BAKED CHICKEN! THIS IS ALL WRONG! GO MAKE IT AGAIN!!"
Funny, I thought that was exactly what the Federation is doing in STO. :rolleyes:
The faction is in the eyes of the beholder.
When you are specifically being asked to clarify an issue and you only answer half an answer then what would you call that ?
I'm sure the Podcast ppl have read the LoR Ask Cryptic' article too , and while the question may have come from them or from a listener , the answer remains the same .
Someone else might come along and say -- "hey they have listened to the fans and now we're getting 'normal' Romulan Fleets" -- based on "we're listening to feedback and making adjustments" .
But that's not the case AFAIK .
No , no it isn't .
There are certain parameters . The Rommy's meet some while fail to meet others .
If you try to use your imagination really hard , you can believe you can fly a BOP as a Fed .
But that's not how things work ... .
I'm not trying to sell you chicken. I am giving you the chicken for free, hoping to sell you a side of potatoes or a drink. I have some options available in those areas, but the free chicken is fried. I am not forcing you to eat it.
This is the best suggestion I've read all week.
Ooh, I like this game.
"I want to eat chicken."
"Here's a roadkill I found earlier."
"Thanks, but I guess I'm not hungry after all."
You are right. Which is why I consider Orions, Gorn and Nausicaans to be their own factions.
It's more like the difference between grilled chicken and raw chicken. Sure, I'm sure someone out there likes raw chicken, but when I stepped into the continental resturaunt and ordered chicken, I sure as heck didn't expect a raw chicken breats to be plopped onto my plate, and quite frankly, who could blame someone who likes chicken if that happened?
And enough of this "It's free and you don't have to play it if you don't want to" nonsense. I think you would be hard pressed to find even a FTP individual who had not bought anything with zen, either by buying the zen outright or by converting it from dilithium. We aren't paying for the chips, we are paying for the forks and knives and plates. And lets be honest, each and every one of us has invested untold hours into this game. We are invested in it and have a stake in it even if we hypothetically did not pay a single red cent or collect the smallest portion of dilithium. If our investment of time, money, and effort is threatened we have every justification to complain.
Yes, meets some parameters, fails to meet others. The question is, does it meet the important parameters.
And important is in the eye of the beholder.
How is it threatened by the release of content that you THINK should be a certain way turns out to not be the way you THOUGHT? My ships, characters or the way I enjoy the game for the toons I already have won't change a bit. And you ARE paying for chips, NOT silverware and plates. You do not need a single item from the C-store to be viable in endgame, that is a fact.
I made an analogy and now I've had three people pick it apart and twist the meaning, just because they just don't like what Cryptic has done to them by not releasing Romulnas exactly the way they were in the TV series. News flash kids: this ain't the TV series.
Everyone has a right to complain, this is true. What I am saying is you are complaining about something: A)you haven't even tried yet
B)that is a bit different than what YOU were expecting
C)(Yes, I'll say it again, and it IS still valid) you are getting for free
I am CERTAIN that Cryptic has noticed the complaints of all those who have been wronged by the content to come, so my point is: your concern has been noted. Now you are just waving a hater flag to be argumentative. Time to move on.
Aham....try telling that to the KDF.
Cool. Now your next step should be starting threads asking for Orion/Nausicaan/Gorn Starbases and fleet system.
another example would be asking for soda and getting diet soda instead of regular.
My character Tsin'xing
But requests for a Romulan faction were not so nearly "generic" as asking for beer, soda or chicken. Romulans (aside from Trek 2009 where they were strange tribal mad men), are a very distinct and specific culture. A faction, in STO is banded together and the game enables certain levels of cooperation.
What we are getting is a Cryptic invented culture, that already existed for other groups (Bajorans, Maquis, etc.). There was no need to merge the Ta'lShiar and the RSE. There was no need to make them the irredeemable bad guys. We could easily have had the RSE without Romulus and told an interesting story about rebuilding the Senate, maybe even some crazy inclusive thing with "barbarian" (alien) senators as Cesar did.
For the game functionality, when we can not create fleets that include Romulans from both Fed/KDF sides, then you are not truly a faction. We can also not cross team for events that are specific to Fed/KDF. This means that we are really Fed/KDF members with forehead ridges and Warbirds.
We asked for something specific, then Cryptic went and made whatever they wanted to make.
Lock Boxes: The true value - (thread link)
Jem'Hadar Bug Odds - (thread link)
Galor Creation Rate - (thread link)
Find me in TSW - TSW Chronicle Profile
Instead we got a Vulcan.
It's probable that YOU voted for the old RSE but it's not what I voted for.
My character Tsin'xing
What's the best way to solve that? Give FRR players designs from the Federation and Klingon Fleets. I can't remember the exact numbers, but there are only a limited number of ships being brought with this update. We know we've got at least 5 Romulan designs, a 6th if you include a Shuttle (we've not seen one yet, but it would be impossible to do the Vault FE without one).
On top of that, we're likely going to see the Romulan Scout Ship and Romulan Science Ship (even though they're practically the same model) along with the ENT-era Bird of Prey and the Scimitar (likely C-Store). I'd expect a total of three store ships for the moment.
It's a safe bet that FED players will get another new ship too (don't they always) and I'd be amazed if there weren't at least three (inc a Ferasan ship) for the KDF. That's quite a number already, and considering the work that goes into a ship (esp with all the shield/hull textures through various sets) I can't see that many Romulan ships being available to us.
It sucks, but it's the way Cryptic have decided to do it, so lets all join together and suck it up. :rolleyes:
Bank / Inventory Slots? Bridge Officer Slots? Character Slots? Costumes? None of it?
5 appearances out of 98 ENT episodes.
3 appearances out of 80 TOS episodes.
3 appearances out of 22 TAS episodes.
3 appearances out of 6 TOS movies.
21 appearances out of 178 TNG episodes.
2 appearances out of 4 TNG movies.
16 appearances out of 176 DS9 episodes.
6 appearances out of 172 VOY episodes.
In several cases - those appearances are the lightest - the smallest - barely worth mentioning - appearances by Romulans. A total of 59 appearances out of a possible 736. Appearances ranging from 2152 through 2379. The Romulans throughout those 227 years changed. The Romulans in Nemesis were not the same Romulans from Minefield. We left them in 2379 "on screen" - 30 years ago, as far as the story in STO is concerned....and the story has progressed in those 30 years.
So in saying that folks were asking for Romulans that they saw on the screen for forty years - well, which Romulans they saw, eh? Cause you know, there were the posts in threads from folks looking for TOS Romulans more than TNG Romulans. Look at the various signatures and avatars...you'll see it there clear as day.
The Romulans have received more love from STO than they did from Star Trek.
Admittedly, I'm not happy that they're part of D'Tan and Company. I didn't mind they weren't RSE...but c'mon...D'Tan...really? But hey, STO is continuing the story...and...they're Romulans. Who says their actions have to reflect their goals thought? It's a MMORPG...want to play a subgroup of the subfaction that is just playing along and biding their time? You can do that. Tada! Yeah...
And the awesome fun to be had with rampant speculation between the first post showing the ship and the second post with the stats that follows...those are the best threads.
That's not the problem I'm trying to argue. -_-
I am upset about the lore, and them turning all of our favorite hobgoblins into a race of Luke Skywalkers, but what I'm more upset about is the fact that they're using other factions ships to fill a hole in a faction that doesn't even exist yet.
The Devs have said every IP Rom ship ever seen will be in the game. They've said they're talking with CBS this week to decide which brand new types of Rom ships will be added to the game. They've said the 5 examples in the blog weren't all the ships available for Roms - they were just the ships chosen for that particular blog.
Allowing cross-faction ships wasn't done due to necessity. It was done because tens of thousands of fans have spent hundreds of dollars on those ships - all those Fed fans don't want their money to go to waste. That's not a bad thing, nor does it require anyone to use a cross-faction ship if they don't want to.
Your argument essentially comes down to: "I don't want to do it so no one else should be able to do it." Such arguments only tend to work when you're the dictator of a Communist country.