You're assuming there's a hole. You have zero information as to how many Rom ships will be in the game, but you want to assume there's going to be a hole.
The Devs have said every IP Rom ship ever seen will be in the game. They've said they're talking with CBS this week to decide which brand new types of Rom ships will be added to the game. They've said the 5 examples in the blog weren't all the ships available for Roms - they were just the ships chosen for that particular blog.
Allowing cross-faction ships wasn't done due to necessity. It was done because tens of thousands of fans have spent hundreds of dollars on those ships - all those Fed fans don't want their money to go to waste. That's not a bad thing, nor does it require anyone to use a cross-faction ship if they don't want to.
Why else would they need the filling, if there's not a hole? If Romulans really could stand on their own, why can't they?
Your argument essentially comes down to: "I don't want to do it so no one else should be able to do it." Such arguments only tend to work when you're the dictator of a Communist country.
There needs to be a socialist version of Godwin's Law.:rolleyes:
Brandon and Archon have already confirmed that the Roms have more then 5 ships. Those 5 just happened to be the ships discussed in that first blog. There will be more blogs forthcoming - including eventual blogs with ship stats.
Oh, I'm sure we'll get more ships, but are we likely to see more free ones? It's more probable that these more ships will be C-Store specific.
From what I've read, the level system is different with Romulans in that it focuses on Warbirds instead of Escort/Cruiser/Science Ship.
Why else would they need the filling, if there's not a hole? If Romulans really could stand on their own, why can't they?
You should actually try to read what you quote, as the answer is in there: "It was done because tens of thousands of fans have spent hundreds of dollars on those ships - all those Fed fans don't want their money to go to waste."
Since the Romulans get access to whatever faction they decide to align with does that mean it goes the other way as well? If not, then what would be the point of playing regular fed or kdf characters?
Since the Romulans get access to whatever faction they decide to align with does that mean it goes the other way as well? If not, then what would be the point of playing regular fed or kdf characters?
Because you want to play a Fed or KDF character. If all that mattered was gameplay, there'd be no plot, no story, no factions. We'd be back to video games from the 1980's.
Oh, I'm sure we'll get more ships, but are we likely to see more free ones? It's more probable that these more ships will be C-Store specific.
Yes, Archon confirmed there will be more free ships as well as Dilithium ships, C-Store ships, and Fleet Store ships.
From what I've read, the level system is different with Romulans in that it focuses on Warbirds instead of Escort/Cruiser/Science Ship.
Every Rom ship is a Warbird of some type. We don't have the full information on configurations, yet. There's still 6 weeks worth of Dev blogs to go.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Because you want to play a Fed or KDF character. If all that mattered was gameplay, there'd be no plot, no story, no factions. We'd be back to video games from the 1980's.
lol what game have you been playing, powerlevel right to 50 then grind it out to get the great gear, dont play the missions for story at all lol besides, the story missions only last maybe a week or 2 so yeah there no plot or story
As Brandon already noted, we'll definitely have more ships than the ones that are listed in the blog right now. There will be free ships, Dilithium ships, and ZEN ships available.
Additionally, we'll have more dev blogs - including discussing more stats - as we get closer to launch.
You should actually try to read what you quote, as the answer is in there: "It was done because tens of thousands of fans have spent hundreds of dollars on those ships - all those Fed fans don't want their money to go to waste."
Now's their chance to remove all faction requirements from ships. Why can't they at least be consistent?
So single player games which only last for 10 Hours have no story?
ur arguement was that there was an engrossing story worth playing on the fed/klink side that makes it worth it to play them when in fact there isnt. pure boredom would be the only reason.
ur arguement was that there was an engrossing story worth playing on the fed/klink side that makes it worth it to play them when in fact there isnt. pure boredom would be the only reason.
One, use proper words. Two, that was not my argument; I merely said that there was story: Some people are better at engrossing themselves than others (and thus, may not need super high quality story to feel like there is even story there). Three, I directly refuted your logic by taking your time based accusation and applying it to a shorter game (which showed your logic is false since there are an abundance of 10 hour, or less, games that are considered to have story).
Because you want to play a Fed or KDF character. If all that mattered was gameplay, there'd be no plot, no story, no factions. We'd be back to video games from the 1980's.
Oh NO! It's the 80s again. I wanna shave lines in my head!
You should actually try to read what you quote, as the answer is in there: "It was done because tens of thousands of fans have spent hundreds of dollars on those ships - all those Fed fans don't want their money to go to waste."
Oh? So they're being nice? Excuse me while I go laugh myself silly.
*Ahem* In all seriousness, the only reason Cryptic is allowing allegiances in the first place is because they aren't confident Romulans will be able to stand on their own. That's the only reason I would do it.
The fact that they're appearing "nice" is merely a beneficial side effect. :rolleyes:
More like discovering they've given you a light beer, or one of those citrus beers; it's not what you were expecting, but it's still technically beer.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste. The things we are not getting are of no real importance to me; therefore I consider them to be a proper faction. They're just done differently from the other factions (regular beer).
It's not a matter of taste. It has nothing to do with opinion. Yes, the Romulan "faction" is technically a faction - they are technically a minority within a larger group. That's the dictionary definition of a faction.
However, they are not a faction according to the existing precedent for an STO faction. We didn't realize that when Cryptic said "faction" they meant the dictionary definition of "faction" which they've previously not used, we thought they meant a faction vying for domination of the galaxy like the other two other "factions" already existing within the game. Clearly, the entire misunderstanding is our fault and Cryptic bares no blame for misleading everyone. :rolleyes:
The Romulans are a proper faction according to the dictionary.
The Romulans are not a proper faction according to the precedent Cryptic set with the creation of the existing factions.
There's no opinion to it. They said faction, they just didn't communicate their changing definition of a "faction" within the STO world.
Personally, I don't care. And maybe that's why I can see it for what it isn't - a proper STO faction.
It's not a matter of taste. It has nothing to do with opinion. Yes, the Romulan "faction" is technically a faction - they are technically a minority within a larger group. That's the dictionary definition of a faction.
However, they are not a faction according to the existing precedent for an STO faction. We didn't realize that when Cryptic said "faction" they meant the dictionary definition of "faction" which they've previously not used, we thought they meant a faction vying for domination of the galaxy like the other two other "factions" already existing within the game. Clearly, the entire misunderstanding is our fault and Cryptic bares no blame for misleading everyone. :rolleyes:
The Romulans are a proper faction according to the dictionary.
The Romulans are not a proper faction according to the precedent Cryptic set with the creation of the existing factions.
There's no opinion to it. They said faction, they just didn't communicate their changing definition of a "faction" within the STO world.
Personally, I don't care. And maybe that's why I can see it for what it isn't - a proper STO faction.
Misleading you how? Having a precedent doesn't mean that everything that follows must be the same. New precedents may be set at any time. You made an assumption; it was not a bad or unreasonable assumption, but it was an incorrect one. Simple as that.
*Ahem* In all seriousness, the only reason Cryptic is allowing allegiances in the first place is because they aren't confident Romulans will be able to stand on their own. That's the only reason I would do it.
The fact that they're appearing "nice" is merely a beneficial side effect. :rolleyes:
More like discovering they've given you a light beer, or one of those citrus beers; it's not what you were expecting, but it's still technically beer.
Whether or not you consider the upcoming Romulans to be a proper faction, or just a 'fraction', is a matter of taste. The things we are not getting are of no real importance to me; therefore I consider them to be a proper faction. They're just done differently from the other factions (regular beer).
It's not a matter of taste. It has nothing to do with opinion. Yes, the Romulan "faction" is technically a faction - they are technically a minority within a larger group. That's the dictionary definition of a faction.
However, they are not a faction according to the existing precedent for an STO faction. We didn't realize that when Cryptic said "faction" they meant the dictionary definition of "faction" which they've previously not used, we thought they meant a faction vying for domination of the galaxy like the other two other "factions" already existing within the game. Clearly, the entire misunderstanding is our fault and Cryptic bares no blame for misleading everyone. :rolleyes:
The Romulans are a proper faction according to the dictionary.
The Romulans are not a proper faction according to the precedent Cryptic set with the creation of the existing factions.
There's no opinion to it. They said faction, they just didn't communicate their changing definition of a "faction" within the STO world.
Personally, I don't care. And maybe that's why I can see it for what it isn't - a proper STO faction.
Misleading you how? Having a precedent doesn't mean that everything that follows must be the same. New precedents may be set at any time. You made an assumption; it was not a bad or unreasonable assumption, but it was an incorrect one. Simple as that.
The old "nobody said they couldn't change their minds" argument. I can see I'm going to have to go Sesame Street on your TRIBBLE&...
One of these things is different. One of these things isn't like the others.
These are not three equatable factions. There are two factions fighting eachother. There is one "faction" choosing which faction to join. Thus they are not a faction unto themselves but a faction within the Fed and KDF factions. This is different from previous factions.
Not much else to say. It is what it is. It's importance can be debated, what it is can't be debated. It can't be perceived differently than what it is without self-deception. You can have an opinion on it, but your opinion of it cannot change what it is. It is a change from previous factions.
Your other arguments are moot as I neither debate them nor care. The definition can change, indeed. Cryptic can do whatever the **** they want (and clearly will). Misunderstandings happen. Most importantly, I don't care that they've changed what it means to be a "faction" in STO. I simply acknowledge the reality that they have changed what it means to be a faction in STO.
While more vulgar than I would have liked, the "one of these things is not like the others" argument is apt. Romulans are not like the others, the allegiance mechanic makes this very clear.
Well actually the Rommy's fight themselves (PVP) and they fight their Allies (PVE - Starbase Defense ) , and they also fight other (non RR) Romulans .
In short they fight everybody , while depleting their own resources (all this while D'Tan QQ's about "there are too few of us left") .
Now I suppose you could twist it ans say that the Rommys fighting their allies is part of their 'treacherous nature' , but I thought Cryptic was trying to get away from that and build the hippie Rommy Empire ?
The definition can change, indeed. Cryptic can do whatever the **** they want (and clearly will). I don't care that they've changed what it means to be a "faction" in STO.
See , I kind of do . Not so much for the here and now , but because this is the representation of the future of STO , which I interpret as a wathering down of the things that make Star Trek into what it is , in favor of easier game (ship & content) production and profit .
I simply acknowledge the reality that they have changed what it means to be a faction in STO.
That still puts you one step ahead of some folks here .
While I can agree that the term "faction" may be seen by many as imprecise or misleading and isn't the term I'd use...
I also think the complaint that Romulans are just a species undersells what Cryptic is overselling by calling a faction.
What species has:
Its own tutorial? 40 levels of its own missions? Over 5 unique ships that nobody else can fly? Its own unique space combat mechanic, species exclusive activated powers, and resource mechanism? Its own fully customizable ground costume?
The closest are the Orions. Who don't have exclusive dibs on their ships, exclusive combat mechanics in space, or 40 levels of their own missions.
While I can agree that the term "faction" may be seen by many as imprecise or misleading and isn't the term I'd use...
I also think the complaint that Romulans are just a species undersells what Cryptic is overselling by calling a faction.
I would ask what would really be lost by jsut selling Romulans in the Zen store as a playable species instead of this wierd fusion thing? It think it would placate a lot of people (myself included) if this were the case, because folks who want to RP rommies joining the fed/kdf would be set, would have access to kdf/fed starships, would not have to start a new starbase, and we wouldn't have the shadow of this 'un-romulan' faction falling over everything. Really all that would be lost would be access to warbirds and the episodes, and cryptic has given indication that a lot of these thigns are not going to be as exclusive as we think.
They can fly any of their allied ships and Cryptic has stated they were thinking of putting Romulan ships into lockboxes to be available to all. Neither of these things screem to me 'unique content' If anything, Romulans are treated as FED/KDF 'plus' characters in regards to content like this so far, not their own faction. Information on the Doff system so far seems to support this as well, Rommies get FED/KDF missions 'plus' a few extra ones, and get fed/kdf duty officers 'plus' Rommie ones obtained on level up.
Its own unique space combat mechanic, species exclusive activated powers, and resource mechanism? Its own fully customizable ground costume?
Singularity cores are exclusive to warbirds, true, but I think it remains to be seen if they function as anything other than warp cores with console abilities that explode differently. Besides, if a Romulan lockbox does come out, you can bet that the Rommie ships will come with singularity core slots. As for powers, liberated borg have unique powers, but I wouldn't call them a faction, ditto for powers and costumes of special bridge officers like the reman sci and breen etc.
Furthermore, a lot of species within the KDF have access to unique clothing options, such as Naucassian and Orions, but they are far from having their own factions.[/QUOTE]
The closest are the Orions. Who don't have exclusive dibs on their ships, exclusive combat mechanics in space, or 40 levels of their own missions.
As stated earlier, the 40 levels are not exclusive, because romulans can invite their kdf/fed allies into their missions, and vica verca. There is a huge blurred area here, and the only 'exclusive' content in this regard is that FEDs cannot be invited into KDF romulan missions and vica verca, extending to opposite faction Romulans as well. This firmly alligns them closer to their allies then to each other.
As for space abilites, pretty much every romulan mechanic can be used by KDF or FED aside from singularity cores (which may not even be exclusive if the ROM lockbox comes out) Romulan traits can be utilized through embassy DOffs, and both factions already have cloaking capability.
I would ask what would really be lost by jsut selling Romulans in the Zen store as a playable species instead of this wierd fusion thing? It think it would placate a lot of people (myself included) if this were the case, because folks who want to RP rommies joining the fed/kdf would be set, would have access to kdf/fed starships, would not have to start a new starbase, and we wouldn't have the shadow of this 'un-romulan' faction falling over everything. Really all that would be lost would be access to warbirds and the episodes, and cryptic has given indication that a lot of these thigns are not going to be as exclusive as we think.
To the average player it may indeed seem like a lot of work for relatively little reward, and that simply selling the Roms as a species in the C-store would be more sensible. But Cryptic doesn't think like we do, they see the Roms and all the future mini factions as perfect cyclical cash cows and hype generators.
For a moment, when Cryptic announced it was releasing an "expac" it became relevant again in the eyes of many people. Add to that what they expect to get in revenue from selling Rom shinies, and you can see WHY they're going this route.
Think of it this way, whether you're an long time player or a new Rom fan your shiny new pointy eared adventurer has no fancy store costumes, no previously bought Rom C-store ship, no nothing!. They are blank slates for you to buy stuff for! This is the big gamble they're embarking on now, if it works we can expect the Roms will be largely forgotten in favor of the next mini faction and its cash grabs, etc.
Welcome to the meat of the STO endgame kids, an endless cycle of mini factions.... ugh.
Comments
Why else would they need the filling, if there's not a hole? If Romulans really could stand on their own, why can't they?
There needs to be a socialist version of Godwin's Law.:rolleyes:
From what I've read, the level system is different with Romulans in that it focuses on Warbirds instead of Escort/Cruiser/Science Ship.
Every Rom ship is a Warbird of some type. We don't have the full information on configurations, yet. There's still 6 weeks worth of Dev blogs to go.
lol what game have you been playing, powerlevel right to 50 then grind it out to get the great gear, dont play the missions for story at all lol besides, the story missions only last maybe a week or 2 so yeah there no plot or story
Dilithium > Zen > Store Purchase?
I don't remember the ENT-era Bird of Prey being named a 'Warbird', nor do I remember the other TNG Romulan Ships being referred too as such.
I don't think he actually confirmed that there would be more free ships; just that there would be more ships generally.
Now's their chance to remove all faction requirements from ships. Why can't they at least be consistent?
ur arguement was that there was an engrossing story worth playing on the fed/klink side that makes it worth it to play them when in fact there isnt. pure boredom would be the only reason.
No, there's ships you can buy for Dilithium. All the standard non c-store ships can be bought that way in fact.
Actually that's an opinion not a fact. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of those words before you use them again.
It's also not an opinion shared by everyone.
Oh NO! It's the 80s again. I wanna shave lines in my head!
Oh? So they're being nice? Excuse me while I go laugh myself silly.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
*Ahem* In all seriousness, the only reason Cryptic is allowing allegiances in the first place is because they aren't confident Romulans will be able to stand on their own. That's the only reason I would do it.
The fact that they're appearing "nice" is merely a beneficial side effect. :rolleyes:
It's not a matter of taste. It has nothing to do with opinion. Yes, the Romulan "faction" is technically a faction - they are technically a minority within a larger group. That's the dictionary definition of a faction.
However, they are not a faction according to the existing precedent for an STO faction. We didn't realize that when Cryptic said "faction" they meant the dictionary definition of "faction" which they've previously not used, we thought they meant a faction vying for domination of the galaxy like the other two other "factions" already existing within the game. Clearly, the entire misunderstanding is our fault and Cryptic bares no blame for misleading everyone. :rolleyes:
The Romulans are a proper faction according to the dictionary.
The Romulans are not a proper faction according to the precedent Cryptic set with the creation of the existing factions.
There's no opinion to it. They said faction, they just didn't communicate their changing definition of a "faction" within the STO world.
Personally, I don't care. And maybe that's why I can see it for what it isn't - a proper STO faction.
Misleading you how? Having a precedent doesn't mean that everything that follows must be the same. New precedents may be set at any time. You made an assumption; it was not a bad or unreasonable assumption, but it was an incorrect one. Simple as that.
Kid 2: Well, I think they let the Romulans use the Federations ships because they're super nice fluffy bunnies who just wanna make everybody happy!
Kid 3: Well, I think letting the Romulans use Federation ships is SOOOO stupid!
Kid 4: Well, I think YOU are SOOOO stupid!
Seriously, why is this thread still going on? Any attempt at discussion or debate has devolved into so much noise.
My character Tsin'xing
Because there's still an argument to be had? Just because others have dissolved into children, doesn't mean we do.
Sorry, but I'm not exactly feeling very warm and fuzzy over this.
The old "nobody said they couldn't change their minds" argument. I can see I'm going to have to go Sesame Street on your TRIBBLE&...
One of these things is different. One of these things isn't like the others.
Federation Faction - Fights KDF, keeps own stuff
KDF Faction - Fights Federation, keeps own stuff
Romulan Faction - Joins Fed or KDF, fights themselves, borrows stuff
These are not three equatable factions. There are two factions fighting eachother. There is one "faction" choosing which faction to join. Thus they are not a faction unto themselves but a faction within the Fed and KDF factions. This is different from previous factions.
Not much else to say. It is what it is. It's importance can be debated, what it is can't be debated. It can't be perceived differently than what it is without self-deception. You can have an opinion on it, but your opinion of it cannot change what it is. It is a change from previous factions.
Your other arguments are moot as I neither debate them nor care. The definition can change, indeed. Cryptic can do whatever the **** they want (and clearly will). Misunderstandings happen. Most importantly, I don't care that they've changed what it means to be a "faction" in STO. I simply acknowledge the reality that they have changed what it means to be a faction in STO.
Romulans are a faction of a faction. :cool:
While more vulgar than I would have liked, the "one of these things is not like the others" argument is apt. Romulans are not like the others, the allegiance mechanic makes this very clear.
Well actually the Rommy's fight themselves (PVP) and they fight their Allies (PVE - Starbase Defense ) , and they also fight other (non RR) Romulans .
In short they fight everybody , while depleting their own resources (all this while D'Tan QQ's about "there are too few of us left") .
Now I suppose you could twist it ans say that the Rommys fighting their allies is part of their 'treacherous nature' , but I thought Cryptic was trying to get away from that and build the hippie Rommy Empire ?
See , I kind of do . Not so much for the here and now , but because this is the representation of the future of STO , which I interpret as a wathering down of the things that make Star Trek into what it is , in favor of easier game (ship & content) production and profit .
That still puts you one step ahead of some folks here .
I also think the complaint that Romulans are just a species undersells what Cryptic is overselling by calling a faction.
What species has:
Its own tutorial? 40 levels of its own missions? Over 5 unique ships that nobody else can fly? Its own unique space combat mechanic, species exclusive activated powers, and resource mechanism? Its own fully customizable ground costume?
The closest are the Orions. Who don't have exclusive dibs on their ships, exclusive combat mechanics in space, or 40 levels of their own missions.
But Orions do have exclusive combat mechanics in ground and Romulan lockboxes are coming. They just join another faction sooner than Romulans do.
I would ask what would really be lost by jsut selling Romulans in the Zen store as a playable species instead of this wierd fusion thing? It think it would placate a lot of people (myself included) if this were the case, because folks who want to RP rommies joining the fed/kdf would be set, would have access to kdf/fed starships, would not have to start a new starbase, and we wouldn't have the shadow of this 'un-romulan' faction falling over everything. Really all that would be lost would be access to warbirds and the episodes, and cryptic has given indication that a lot of these thigns are not going to be as exclusive as we think.
Romulans can invite allies to join them in their episodes, and vica verca, not exactly exclusive, only the mission rewards are.
They can fly any of their allied ships and Cryptic has stated they were thinking of putting Romulan ships into lockboxes to be available to all. Neither of these things screem to me 'unique content' If anything, Romulans are treated as FED/KDF 'plus' characters in regards to content like this so far, not their own faction. Information on the Doff system so far seems to support this as well, Rommies get FED/KDF missions 'plus' a few extra ones, and get fed/kdf duty officers 'plus' Rommie ones obtained on level up.
Singularity cores are exclusive to warbirds, true, but I think it remains to be seen if they function as anything other than warp cores with console abilities that explode differently. Besides, if a Romulan lockbox does come out, you can bet that the Rommie ships will come with singularity core slots. As for powers, liberated borg have unique powers, but I wouldn't call them a faction, ditto for powers and costumes of special bridge officers like the reman sci and breen etc.
Furthermore, a lot of species within the KDF have access to unique clothing options, such as Naucassian and Orions, but they are far from having their own factions.[/QUOTE]
As stated earlier, the 40 levels are not exclusive, because romulans can invite their kdf/fed allies into their missions, and vica verca. There is a huge blurred area here, and the only 'exclusive' content in this regard is that FEDs cannot be invited into KDF romulan missions and vica verca, extending to opposite faction Romulans as well. This firmly alligns them closer to their allies then to each other.
As for space abilites, pretty much every romulan mechanic can be used by KDF or FED aside from singularity cores (which may not even be exclusive if the ROM lockbox comes out) Romulan traits can be utilized through embassy DOffs, and both factions already have cloaking capability.
To the average player it may indeed seem like a lot of work for relatively little reward, and that simply selling the Roms as a species in the C-store would be more sensible. But Cryptic doesn't think like we do, they see the Roms and all the future mini factions as perfect cyclical cash cows and hype generators.
For a moment, when Cryptic announced it was releasing an "expac" it became relevant again in the eyes of many people. Add to that what they expect to get in revenue from selling Rom shinies, and you can see WHY they're going this route.
Think of it this way, whether you're an long time player or a new Rom fan your shiny new pointy eared adventurer has no fancy store costumes, no previously bought Rom C-store ship, no nothing!. They are blank slates for you to buy stuff for! This is the big gamble they're embarking on now, if it works we can expect the Roms will be largely forgotten in favor of the next mini faction and its cash grabs, etc.
Welcome to the meat of the STO endgame kids, an endless cycle of mini factions.... ugh.