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Concerned over the Alien lockout on Romulans

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  • cuzecozecuzecoze Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    flash525 wrote: »
    *Faction Dude. ;)

    I think he meant to say fraction, as a joke on the Romulans being a fraction of a real faction.
  • tenkaritenkari Member Posts: 2,906 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    As per BranFlakes Twitter it's just for Romulans, and it's not Aliens like how we have Aliens in KDF, and FED...it's a Special kind of Alien.

    that would be why they keep calling them "Alien Gen hybrids" all alien species created in that creator would be half-romulan, thus you likely wouldn't see a lot of variation, as in you couldn't create a jem'hadar looking alien for the romulan faction.
  • squidheadjaxsquidheadjax Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    flash525 wrote: »
    *Faction Dude. ;)
    cuzecoze wrote: »
    I think he meant to say fraction, as a joke on the Romulans being a fraction of a real faction.

    That was going to be my response.
    SQUIRREL!
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    cuzecoze wrote: »
    I think he meant to say fraction, as a joke on the Romulans being a fraction of a real faction.
    Well, technically 7/8 is a fraction. :p
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Regardless if it is the 'alien' option the Feds or KDF have, it's rotten to dump an additional species option behind a paywall when KDF/FED only have one, and ROmmies only have one species they can play that doesn't require gold/lifetime or grinding the reputation system.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It's not a problem Cryptic are perfectly fine with player churn and upsetting the user base and fan base is something they often do, they know it's not a problem because the poor TRIBBLE Star Trek fans will always come back... afterall they have nowhere else to go.

    This is flat out forum misinformation, especially when the more frank devs have leaked what Cryptic's approach to churn is.

    The analogy used in house there is a bucket.

    You have a spicket dripping in. You have a hole dripping out. Both are expected. Both are seen as somewhat inevitable.

    The goal of designers is both to slow the leak out of the bucket and to get the spicket to pour new players in. Plugging the bucket is impossible. No online game has ever done this. But you don't ignore the hole in the bucket or make it bigger, ether.

    They're not out to eliminate churn. But OF COURSE they want to minimize it. And they want to maximize new players coming in. And they can sometimes justify one action if it improves the other more. But they also know that permanently making the hole bigger for a temporary spicket increase is bad and permanently choking the spicket to plug the hole is also bad.

    So you may have some calculated decisions where they favor new players or old players but they're calculated.

    If I worked there, I'd consider it pretty insulting that people suggest Cryptic deliberately tears holes in the bottom of the bucket. Because it doesn't benefit any employee at Cryptic. It's a fancy way of saying they're stupid and incompetent.

    Now, if you said that they do things that they know will cost them old players but will bring new ones in, sure. And you'd be a jerk if you were against them EVER doing this. But it's calculated. It's not "full steam ahead and don't mind the turnover." it's done in a way that is focused on increasing total players and with hopes for good and hopefully improving -- but not perfect -- long term retention. It's a balancing act. And pretty entitled, selfish, and maybe a bit evil to suggest that the hole should always get priority over the spicket.

    Perfect retention is a rude standard to hold them to. And suggesting that they don't care about retention at all is pretty much slandering them without any basis in the facts, suggesting they're deliberately destroying their own jobs for golden parachutes. And this game while healthy certainly doesn't do the kind of money to give people golden parachutes. The few million a year this game probably generates doesn't cover that. I don't think any MMO generates that kind of money.

    Now, sure, a game targeted at China is going to have a different bucket-spicket calculation. And it should. But STO doesn't operate in China. Whenever I see talk about churn, I see cultural imperialism ascribing motives to Chinese companies where, in my experience, no particularly evil motives exist. It's about pragmatism and where a game is designed to get its demographics from and pragmatism is the same everywhere. But, frankly, that's what all this Chicken Little talk about churn is.

    It's operating under the notion that Chinese companies operate "a certain way." and it's a daft and backward notion. Target demographics and target markets dictate how these companies operate by and large, not some kind of secret otherness that informs their values.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    And I am a sustainability nut. But nearly one percent of the planet dies every year. A total focus on retention is idiotic. Most companies would go under very quickly with this approach and none would ever grow. Meanwhile, zero focus on retention is also idiotic as acquiring customers is costly... And if it weren't costly, everyone would do it.

    You need a balanced approach. You triage. And Cryptic triages. They may triage badly sometimes. And I'm sure they regret it when they do. But they do triage and they need to and you don't accuse a doctor of killing patients because they triage care.

    I have no issue with saying Cryptic has made bad triage calls. I think they'd admit that. But to suggest that triage is wrong or that Cryptic makes bad calls deliberately is paranoia. Nobody would benefit in the long run from this and few enough people would benefit in the short run that you'd pretty much have to imagine 50 people working at gunpoint to make sense of it.
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited March 2013
    I dont understand why they would do this. Aliens have been available to FEDs and KDFs since launch. Why restrict them now to Subs and Lifers? Honestly, this wont make people subscribe.

    Of all they things they could make subscription restricted this is a pretty minor one. I think STO is very generous in that you can access almost everything for free. Mostly you pay for customization and convenience (P2W lockbox and fleet ships aside). I am actually concerned that this is only the 1st step into them restricting more stuff. Let's hope they don't take this too far like they do in TOR <cringes>.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • gulberatgulberat Member Posts: 5,505 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    As per BranFlakes Twitter it's just for Romulans, and it's not Aliens like how we have Aliens in KDF, and FED...it's a Special kind of Alien.

    I don't have or want Twitter. Can you link where he conclusively said that this lockout ONLY applies to the Romulans?

    Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
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  • denizenvidenizenvi Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Having Romulan-faction aliens be limited makes sense when you consider the storyline. From what they've said, you're a survivor, an existing citizen of the fractured RSE. With the Feds and KDF, aliens can join an existing organization, regardless of background. But with Romulans, the storyline is such that it only makes sense for people 'already' integrated into Romulan society. They're not finding able recruits from the broader empire, they're drawing on heroes from within who have a drive to give the Romulan people some meaningful change.


    That said, I do hope the 'hybrid' restrictions aren't too tight. Besides Romulan/Human and Romulan/Klingon hybrids, we've seen a human defector who served in the Romulan fleet in TNG. And it's conceivable that other 'similar' species could fit in with Romulan society. I'm hoping the restrictions only limit extremely prominent ears and facial add-ons, along with vibrant skin colors and extreme facial sliders. I have a near-human species in a foundry mission that would fit in perfectly with a Romulan faction, as long as certain forehead patterns are still available.
    Take a look at my Foundry missions!

    Conjoined
    , Re-emergence, and . . .

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mbomberdavidmbomberdavid Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    This is flat out forum misinformation, especially when the more frank devs have leaked what Cryptic's approach to churn is.

    The analogy used in house there is a bucket.

    You have a spicket dripping in. You have a hole dripping out. Both are expected. Both are seen as somewhat inevitable.

    The goal of designers is both to slow the leak out of the bucket and to get the spicket to pour new players in. Plugging the bucket is impossible. No online game has ever done this. But you don't ignore the hole in the bucket or make it bigger, ether.

    They're not out to eliminate churn. But OF COURSE they want to minimize it. And they want to maximize new players coming in. And they can sometimes justify one action if it improves the other more. But they also know that permanently making the hole bigger for a temporary spicket increase is bad and permanently choking the spicket to plug the hole is also bad.

    So you may have some calculated decisions where they favor new players or old players but they're calculated.

    If I worked there, I'd consider it pretty insulting that people suggest Cryptic deliberately tears holes in the bottom of the bucket. Because it doesn't benefit any employee at Cryptic. It's a fancy way of saying they're stupid and incompetent.

    Now, if you said that they do things that they know will cost them old players but will bring new ones in, sure. And you'd be a jerk if you were against them EVER doing this. But it's calculated. It's not "full steam ahead and don't mind the turnover." it's done in a way that is focused on increasing total players and with hopes for good and hopefully improving -- but not perfect -- long term retention. It's a balancing act. And pretty entitled, selfish, and maybe a bit evil to suggest that the hole should always get priority over the spicket.

    Perfect retention is a rude standard to hold them to. And suggesting that they don't care about retention at all is pretty much slandering them without any basis in the facts, suggesting they're deliberately destroying their own jobs for golden parachutes. And this game while healthy certainly doesn't do the kind of money to give people golden parachutes. The few million a year this game probably generates doesn't cover that. I don't think any MMO generates that kind of money.

    Now, sure, a game targeted at China is going to have a different bucket-spicket calculation. And it should. But STO doesn't operate in China. Whenever I see talk about churn, I see cultural imperialism ascribing motives to Chinese companies where, in my experience, no particularly evil motives exist. It's about pragmatism and where a game is designed to get its demographics from and pragmatism is the same everywhere. But, frankly, that's what all this Chicken Little talk about churn is.

    It's operating under the notion that Chinese companies operate "a certain way." and it's a daft and backward notion. Target demographics and target markets dictate how these companies operate by and large, not some kind of secret otherness that informs their values.


    Very good post sir, hopefully it will be instructive to those who need it most...

    Who would not eventually get bored of even a perfect game and move elsewhere eventually??? After all we are just pushing buttons on a keyboard looking at a screen.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Regardless if it is the 'alien' option the Feds or KDF have, it's rotten to dump an additional species option behind a paywall when KDF/FED only have one, and ROmmies only have one species they can play that doesn't require gold/lifetime or grinding the reputation system.
    Um... are you sure you've played this game?

    Both KDF and Fed have Lib Borg that requires LTS. (see avatar) Also Joined Trill and Caitians/Ferasans are Z-store races. Also, Feds can play as a Klingon if they buy the option in the Zstore. So... KDF has 3 paywalled races, and Feds have 4.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • thehavrahathehavraha Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    denizenvi wrote: »
    Having Romulan-faction aliens be limited makes sense when you consider the storyline. From what they've said, you're a survivor, an existing citizen of the fractured RSE. With the Feds and KDF, aliens can join an existing organization, regardless of background. But with Romulans, the storyline is such that it only makes sense for people 'already' integrated into Romulan society. They're not finding able recruits from the broader empire, they're drawing on heroes from within who have a drive to give the Romulan people some meaningful change.

    Actually the storyline so far is that you're going to be a simple civilian who works his way up to be a Romulan Republic captain. It's not out of the question, then, that you could be a simple civilian from one of the many species the Romulans have annexed over time with the vast Empire, who has a vested interest in the success of the Republic and the destroying of the oppressive and relentless Tal Shiar.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
    Check out my Foundry missions
    Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
    KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
  • thehavrahathehavraha Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Um... are you sure you've played this game?

    Both KDF and Fed have Lib Borg that requires LTS. (see avatar) Also Joined Trill and Caitians/Ferasans are Z-store races. Also, Feds can play as a Klingon if they buy the option in the Zstore. So... KDF has 3 paywalled races, and Feds have 4.

    His argument is poor. Mine is better.

    You shouldn't take a feature of this game, this product, "alien gen", and then limit it, pay-wall it, and tell people they need to pay money for it for future expansions. That's a jerk-move on any day of the week.

    It's a matter of charging money for previously free content (whether you define content as episodes or missions or whatever, I define content as "stuff that is in your game"), versus creating NEW things and saying "HERE, this is new, and this deserves money for our effort."

    As it stands, pay-walling a free feature of this product for future expansions is a cheap way to TRY to wring money out of players (I don't think it'll work if a much better version is on the other factions), while overall bringing down the quality of the Romulan faction because of its exclusion.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
    Check out my Foundry missions
    Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
    KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
  • thehavrahathehavraha Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    It's been clear from my discussions that this is indeed a form of pay-gating a previously free "species", whether people want to admit a species is "content" in the game is another matter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
    Check out my Foundry missions
    Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
    KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    thehavraha wrote: »
    It's been clear from my discussions that this is indeed a form of pay-gating a previously free "species", whether people want to admit a species is "content" in the game is another matter.
    Even if they are 'only' paygating a new species option, the 'hybrids' instead of the 'alien' option, this is pretty messed up, considering this would likely mean that the Rommies have two lifetime/gold paygated species, despite their already constricted species options, and the fact that the other two factions, which have more options to begin with, only have one paygated option. Considering how little 'unique' content has been revealed for the Romulans already, does cryptic need to start gouging already?
  • hippiejonhippiejon Member Posts: 1,581 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    ...and the fact that the other two factions, which have more options to begin with, only have one paygated option...

    false.

    federation faction "paygated" races : Caitian, Joined Trill, Klingon, Lib. Borg
    KDF faction paygated races : ferasan, Joined trill, Lib. Borg


    Not saying my feelings about this one way or another, but please do not claim false information as truth, and then use it to fuel your arguments and accusations against Cryptic.
    Use actual truthful information.
    No matter how loud you yell it, and how often, FALSE information is still false.
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    hippiejon wrote: »
    false.

    federation faction "paygated" races : Caitian, Joined Trill, Klingon, Lib. Borg
    KDF faction paygated races : ferasan, Joined trill, Lib. Borg


    Not saying my feelings about this one way or another, but please do not claim false information as truth, and then use it to fuel your arguments and accusations against Cryptic.
    Use actual truthful information.
    No matter how loud you yell it, and how often, FALSE information is still false.
    Oh come off it...I was obviously refering to the Liberated Borg. Unlike all of the Zen store species can be bought by FTP if they choose to go the dilithium refining+exchange option. Borg cannot because they are lifetime only. Likewise the Hybrids are Lifetime/Gold only.

    "Rommies have two lifetime/gold paygated species....only have one paygated option" Everything I said was true, not flase information.

    Please do not distort my message.
    Then use it to fuel your strawman against me.
    Cite things I actually said if you want to debate soemthing.
    No matter how hard you try to distort what I type, distortions are still distortions.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    So Go Gold (create a character and go silver again if you like )

    I don't know

    HUMANS
    Live long and Prosper
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    sollvax wrote: »
    So Go Gold (create a character and go silver again if you like )

    I don't know

    HUMANS
    I don't think you grasp the concept of free to play...the solution is obvious, thank-you-very-much, I think I uderstand that I would have to go lifetime/gold when I say that they are behind a lifetime/gold paywall. That isn't my point. Romulans are getting *another* gold/lifetime paywall species, when the other factions have two, and the Romulan Republic already have the Remans which require grinding...

    And yeah, Hybrid can't be bought by the usual FTP method of dilithium refining+exchange, unlike the caitans/fed klingons etc (so I don't know why people keep trying to compare them). They are strictly off-limits for FTP, which is a big deal for players who happen to be FTP.
  • hippiejonhippiejon Member Posts: 1,581 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Cite things I actually said if you want to debate soemthing.

    So, actually quoting your own post and words is not citing something you actually said ?

    Done here.

    Peace

    Enjoy your being angry and all spoiling for a fight.
    Hope that goes well for your blood pressure.
  • catoblepasbetacatoblepasbeta Member Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    hippiejon wrote: »
    So, actually quoting your own post and words is not citing something you actually said ?

    Done here.

    Peace

    Enjoy your being angry and all spoiling for a fight.
    Hope that goes well for your blood pressure.
    Quoting selective parts of my post, and then taking them out of context to spin them as fabrication?

    Yeah.

    I see the classic troll tactic of saying soemthign baseless and inflammatory, waiting for a response, and then playing the innocent and backing out is alive and well.
  • chandlerasharichandlerashari Member Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    eraserfish wrote: »
    I don't like feeling used, and I'm feeling slightly abused. One thing after another, and it's been piling up for awhile now.

    Gonna pack up and call it quits, just as soon as I have an opportunity to dump my dilithium on a fleet project.

    Kthxbai, can i have all yr stuff? Lol

    Jk

    Anrage quit post is always good for a laugh

    Kidding aside, with the trait system revamp, the whole making an alien to have perfect traits might be a moot issue.

    And its worded as alien~gen hybrids, so i think it refers to sela style rom-human or othr species hybrids.

    I love the game as is, i want cryptic to make more money to feedback into this game and other cryptic projects.

    So i supportthis move.

    And believe me if cryptic does something to affect my willing ness to play the game, you wont read it on a forum.

    Id just leave.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I don't think you grasp the concept of free to play
    ..

    yes I do

    it means "Facebook model" people pay the very basic game and get microed to death on the "nickle and Dime" scale
    .the solution is obvious, thank-you-very-much, I think I uderstand that I would have to go lifetime/gold when I say that they are behind a lifetime/gold paywall. That isn't my point. Romulans are getting *another* gold/lifetime paywall species, when the other factions have two, and the Romulan Republic already have the Remans which require grinding...
    this is what Romulans have instead of cyborg/borg
    And its accurate Romulans do not like or trust Aliens

    And yeah, Hybrid can't be bought by the usual FTP method of dilithium refining+exchange, unlike the caitans/fed klingons etc (so I don't know why people keep trying to compare them). They are strictly off-limits for FTP, which is a big deal for players who happen to be FTP.

    Why?
    its only a fairly naff alien option.
    one months Gold membership is cheap and easy and worth it.

    Actually I of course would like to see All races other than Klingon (KDF) Human (UFP) and Romulan (RSE) Cardassian (CU) be Members / C store to keep down the starwars factor
    Live long and Prosper
  • ussdelphin2ussdelphin2 Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Eh, most people just pick "Alien" to min-max their traits anyway. I wouldn't be sad if the option went away altogether.

    I don't think its just the min-max traits, its the fact you can make it look like almost any species in the game or create your own species..... and you can have a different species in every costume slot..... the option should never go away... it should be expanded upon.
    How I picture a lot of the forumites :P
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Quoting selective parts of my post, and then taking them out of context to spin them as fabrication?

    Yeah.

    I see the classic troll tactic of saying soemthign baseless and inflammatory, waiting for a response, and then playing the innocent and backing out is alive and well.

    Jon is NOT a Troll
    Treat him with some respect he is well liked here even by people he does not agree with
    Live long and Prosper
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Regardless of being LTS, I don't have an issue with this. They are obviously trying to keep the story much tighter. The story will pretty much always assume you are a Romulan, a Reman, or at least of Romulan or Reman blood. I think it's a good sign, it means the story will probably be much more focused and coherent than the mess we have in the other two factions.
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I want to go 100% Romulan (including Crew and Doffs) so i shall be hoping for a Romulan Doff pack

    of course if I ever bother unlocking the Reman I might alt one up (in which case he will be spending his time being sneaky , vicious and cruel)
    Live long and Prosper
  • thehavrahathehavraha Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Kthxbai, can i have all yr stuff? Lol

    Jk

    Anrage quit post is always good for a laugh

    Kidding aside, with the trait system revamp, the whole making an alien to have perfect traits might be a moot issue.

    And its worded as alien~gen hybrids, so i think it refers to sela style rom-human or othr species hybrids.

    I love the game as is, i want cryptic to make more money to feedback into this game and other cryptic projects.

    So i supportthis move.

    And believe me if cryptic does something to affect my willing ness to play the game, you wont read it on a forum.

    Id just leave.

    When Cryptic has gone on record on interviews saying species and costumes literally "Don't Sell Well", do you think pay-gating the alien gen for the Romulans is actually going to net them much money? No. It will just harm the faction overall and prevent people from making characters with the stories they want to make, from fulfilling their imaginations and adventures.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
    Check out my Foundry missions
    Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
    KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
  • thehavrahathehavraha Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    sollvax wrote: »
    ..

    this is what Romulans have instead of cyborg/borg
    And its accurate Romulans do not like or trust Aliens

    Why?
    its only a fairly naff alien option.
    one months Gold membership is cheap and easy and worth it.

    Inaccurate. Having their training, defense, and politics influenced by the Klingons, their species arch nemesis, proves that New Romulans don't "dislike and not trust" aliens. They should DESPISE Klingons. They don't in this faction, and you won't play as an officer that would in the story. So this is incorrect, and its incorrect to assume that a more familiar alien species from their own empire wouldn't be ever better accepted.
    And the "naff" alien creator is why I bought this game. Subbing for a month and leaving? That's stupid. If they want that, put it in the C-Store. This is an attempt to pay-gate a previously free (and still free) feature for every other faction.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
    Check out my Foundry missions
    Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
    KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
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