The New Romulans may be attempting to abandon Romulan Xenophobia, but remember: New Romulans are a NEW thing. They've existed for...well, not all that long, if all of this is occurring in the groundhog's year of 2409. That's not enough time to replace their officer corps, nor spontaneously produce an entire population of non-Romuloids.
Logically, one would assume that some old prejudices etc remain. However, every indication so far from New Romulus and the teaser/interview etc would seem to indicate that the Romulan Faction really is beyond all that xenophobia etc.
I say you're falling into a Slippery Slope trap and being a little silly.
Aliens are a low-impact feature to start with, something that will be missed but is hardly critical to gameplay. Subs and LTS need incentives to make them worth getting, and one race for one faction behind that paywall is hardly an excessive move.
I certainly advocate keeping a close eye on where things go from here, but I see no reason to be alarmed at this "feature" by itself.
The New Romulans may be attempting to abandon Romulan Xenophobia, but remember: New Romulans are a NEW thing. They've existed for...well, not all that long, if all of this is occurring in the groundhog's year of 2409. That's not enough time to replace their officer corps, nor spontaneously produce an entire population of non-Romuloids.
BUT, they've already stated that you will start out as a civilian, not in the military. This not only means that it makes since for you to be a hybrid (and possibly a hybrid of a Romulan and some forbidden species like Klingon, we know it happened from the television series), but it also makes sense for you to be an ENTIRELY ORIGINAL species that story wise was a species absorbed by the very large and vast Romulan Empire. You would haved a stake in what happens to the Romulans afterward, and fighting the Tal Shiar would be something worth joining the Romulan Republic military for.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
I say you're falling into a Slippery Slope trap and being a little silly.
Aliens are a low-impact feature to start with, something that will be missed but is hardly critical to gameplay. Subs and LTS need incentives to make them worth getting, and one race for one faction behind that paywall is hardly an excessive move.
I certainly advocate keeping a close eye on where things go from here, but I see no reason to be alarmed at this "feature" by itself.
The "slippery slope trap" we'd fall into would be the one that happens when we allow them to lock off previously free content to new expansions.
As you say, is one species important? No. But in the future, it could be entire missions. That's what a slippery slope is by definition. Hitler didn't murder all the Jews out of the blue. They had to be registered first. Then they had to wear patches. Each time was a "tiny incremental change" that "wasn't that bad", until in culminated in something that really really was.
Besides, I think alien generation in Star Trek Online is extremely important. It's the whole reason I bought the game.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
The "slippery slope trap" we'd fall into would be the one that happens when we allow them to lock off previously free content to new expansions.
As you say, is one species important? No. But in the future, it could be entire missions. That's what a slippery slope is by definition. Hitler didn't murder all the Jews out of the blue. They had to be registered first. Then they had to wear patches. Each time was a "tiny incremental change" that "wasn't that bad", until in culminated in something that really really was.
Besides, I think alien generation in Star Trek Online is extremely important. It's the whole reason I bought the game.
*cough Godwin's Law cough*
But I do agree that its just not a 'perk'. I'm a LTS, so it really doesn't matter one way or another to me. Still, let's call it what it is - a pay gate, one that really doesn't stand much of a chance to entice people to sub. It really just feels like they are only calling it a perk so they can claim they gave us something.
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe."
Take your PC/America is evil bull**** elsewhere.
And since you just gave me some generic line about show dialogue without specific examples, it stands to reason you don't have any and are just clinging to your preconceived notion.
You are right!!! Im Canadian, and live in Japan and thus not defending my own. There is good and bad everywhere but one thing about the USA (and like countries) is that their freedom of expression casts light on many things including thier own flaws. It is ignorant for people to think more poorly of the USA because they give a "warts and all" view of themselves when there are many countries that hide their own evils...
The problem is you're assuming an outcome (missions paywalled) based on a single step (AlienGen paywalled) with no visible pattern established to logically lead to your assumption. One race being paywalled in one faction is an outlying data point at the moment. You can't draw a conclusion from that single data point when the overwhelming majority of existing data pretty plainly points to another pattern.
That's why I said we should also keep a close eye on it. That data point could become a pattern, and we need to watch it. But until we see more, until we have more data to go on, jumping to the conclusion that this instance is the start of a slippery slope is fallacious.
I dont understand why they would do this. Aliens have been available to FEDs and KDFs since launch. Why restrict them now to Subs and Lifers? Honestly, this wont make people subscribe.
My question is.. is this only on Romulan fraction? What happens to those that have aliens and are a silver gamer?
My question is.. is this only on Romulan fraction? What happens to those that have aliens and are a silver gamer?
Yeah, exactly. Will we get locked out of our existing alien toons? That would be a serious blow.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I have a question, is the alien lockout only for Romulan fraction or is this fraction wide? What happens to the alien access of the other fractions? And what happens to the silvers who already has aliens?
Well DSthal specifically mentioned the Romulans... I can imagine there would be a ton of silvers out there leaving if their only char (wich is alien) was locked out for them.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I think silvers--myself included--would leave if ANY of their existing alts got locked out, regardless of how many toons they had. To steal the huge amounts of work that those players have put into those toons...it would be HUGE.
Honestly...I actually think it would be big enough to bring down STO. Hopefully Cryptic/PWE isn't that suicidal. Hopefully.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I think silvers--myself included--would leave if ANY of their existing alts got locked out, regardless of how many toons they had. To steal the huge amounts of work that those players have put into those toons...it would be HUGE.
Honestly...I actually think it would be big enough to bring down STO. Hopefully Cryptic/PWE isn't that suicidal. Hopefully.
Even if they do paywall all Aliens, I highly doubt they'll lock anyone out of an existing toon - Cryptic's F2P setup is incredibly forgiving. This is the game where you can sub for one month and reap the benefits for as long as the game stays up whether you continue subbing or not.
But I do think you're overestimating the pull of a single race. Aliens paywalled wouldn't kill STO. Raise complaint, maybe, but I'd be sincerely shocked if the outrage came anywhere near the Fleet Marks or STF Dilithium debacles.
Yeah, exactly. Will we get locked out of our existing alien toons? That would be a serious blow.
Do you really think that Cryptic would do that? Seriously? That would be ridiculously stupid, and TRIBBLE off waaaaay too many people. You know it, I know it, and Cryptic knows it. C'mon, think about it for a minute: How many people are f2p, with at least one Alien toon? If Cryptic did as you're assuming, they'd TRIBBLE off the ACTUAL majority of players.
The problem is you're assuming an outcome (missions paywalled) based on a single step (AlienGen paywalled) with no visible pattern established to logically lead to your assumption. One race being paywalled in one faction is an outlying data point at the moment. You can't draw a conclusion from that single data point when the overwhelming majority of existing data pretty plainly points to another pattern.
That's why I said we should also keep a close eye on it. That data point could become a pattern, and we need to watch it. But until we see more, until we have more data to go on, jumping to the conclusion that this instance is the start of a slippery slope is fallacious.
By the time you've collected enough "data points" to determine whether or not this is a good pattern or a bad pattern, it'll be a bad pattern with precedence and therefor justification.
I don't want to allow it to get that far. Safeguards, whistle-blowers, they all kind of have that job by default.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Do you really think that Cryptic would do that? Seriously? That would be ridiculously stupid, and TRIBBLE off waaaaay too many people. You know it, I know it, and Cryptic knows it. C'mon, think about it for a minute: How many people are f2p, with at least one Alien toon? If Cryptic did as you're assuming, they'd TRIBBLE off the ACTUAL majority of players.
It's easier to TRIBBLE off the newer "newer" players who want to role a Romulan in the new Romulan "faction" that not only lacks starbases like all the other "factions" but also an alien generator for silver players. Right? :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] I am a Cheestah.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Not like I am going to refuse to play romulan. Adding wrong prefix, not being a faction having to play for others, getting romulan lockbox ships I'd say we are getting there.
I'd have to see how many new story missions they added to decide if I play romulan or not.
But I guess worst case scenario you passively level your romulan using doff and have him as another alt to farm dilithium on.
At the very least there are new ships and costumes for free but depending on the story volume not a whole lot to get excited about as of yet.
Well it's a bit annoying but I chose alien to get the traits I wanted and the trill skin without forking out. With the changes to traits of which some look very positive I'm not too bothered.
Wait till the traits system is finalised before getting the torches and pitchforks!
Do you really think that Cryptic would do that? Seriously? That would be ridiculously stupid, and TRIBBLE off waaaaay too many people. You know it, I know it, and Cryptic knows it. C'mon, think about it for a minute: How many people are f2p, with at least one Alien toon? If Cryptic did as you're assuming, they'd TRIBBLE off the ACTUAL majority of players.
It's not a problem Cryptic are perfectly fine with player churn and upsetting the user base and fan base is something they often do, they know it's not a problem because the poor TRIBBLE Star Trek fans will always come back... afterall they have nowhere else to go.
As Jexsamx said you'd most likely keep your toons you just wouldn't be able to make new aliens even if it was a faction wide lockout (which is doubt). Course you could always sub for 1 month, create as many new aliens as you ever wanted and then cancel after 1 month. You would even keep your shared bank slots, extra bank slots etc.
all the aliens in the Romulan factipon will be half-romulan anyway., so i doubt the romulan aliens will have as many customization options as the fed/kdf aliens.
Everybody keeps saying this but I have no idea where it comes from. They may have a superiority complex, but that's not the same thing. In TOS I see one Romulan commander tell Kirk they could've been friends; I see another try to get in Spock's pants and using Klingon ships. In TNG I see a bunch of Romulans working with Spock towards Reunification. In DS9 they work with the other powers against the Dominion; in Voyager one takes a message from U.S.S. Voyager to their own government to be passed on to the Federation.
So what's the source? Or is it, as I suspect, just people parroting other people who said it?
p.s. Isolationism does not equal xenophobia. The U.S. has a history of isolationism because it just didn't want to get involved. Not the same thing.
We the US also denied entrance based on race, Irish need not apply, forced our native inhabitants into exile, created a system that punished non-whites, and moved an entire race of people into internment camps while railing on another empire that did the same. The history of isolationism in general and it's two biggest players (pre-Meijii Japan and pre-WW2 America) is rife with xenophobia. That's generally why you become isolationist.
all the aliens in the Romulan factipon will be half-romulan anyway., so i doubt the romulan aliens will have as many customization options as the fed/kdf aliens.
The idea that they're half-Romulan is still speculation(but seems likely), but it does appear that there is something different about RR aliens.
Everybody keeps saying this but I have no idea where it comes from. They may have a superiority complex, but that's not the same thing. In TOS I see one Romulan commander tell Kirk they could've been friends; I see another try to get in Spock's pants and using Klingon ships. In TNG I see a bunch of Romulans working with Spock towards Reunification. In DS9 they work with the other powers against the Dominion; in Voyager one takes a message from U.S.S. Voyager to their own government to be passed on to the Federation.
So what's the source? Or is it, as I suspect, just people parroting other people who said it?
p.s. Isolationism does not equal xenophobia. The U.S. has a history of isolationism because it just didn't want to get involved. Not the same thing.
This is one of the most salient posts I've seen in the ongoing debate. Some players are so focused in on one aspect of the Romulans (the villains) that they refuse to acknowledge that the various TV series themselves show the Romulans as a more diverse race. It's the leaders, the ones in control, that fall into the villain category. Individual Romulans are far more diverse than that.
We are getting to see some of that diversity. It does kind of play into the Ally system. Different Romulan characters will ally themselves with different factions based on their perspective. The Romulan Empire is fractured; in a way, this gives them -- and us through the Foundry -- the opportunity to develop a far more complex story for this faction.
How we as players respond to it is up to us. There are many opportunities open to us. Far more than if they had gone with the original "mini-faction" concept that would have ended up in the same place anyway (Fed or KDF) -- without 40 levels of faction-specific storyline.
For me, the Romulans sound like a viable faction that I look forward to playing.
If people were locked out of their existing toons and forced to sub, even for a month, to get back what they had already worked so hard on for well over a year, in some cases, THAT, I believe, would cause a mass walkout on a level that could bring the game down. So I really hope they wouldn't do something so stupid.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I have a question, is the alien lockout only for Romulan fraction or is this fraction wide? What happens to the alien access of the other fractions? And what happens to the silvers who already has aliens?
Comments
I say you're falling into a Slippery Slope trap and being a little silly.
Aliens are a low-impact feature to start with, something that will be missed but is hardly critical to gameplay. Subs and LTS need incentives to make them worth getting, and one race for one faction behind that paywall is hardly an excessive move.
I certainly advocate keeping a close eye on where things go from here, but I see no reason to be alarmed at this "feature" by itself.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
BUT, they've already stated that you will start out as a civilian, not in the military. This not only means that it makes since for you to be a hybrid (and possibly a hybrid of a Romulan and some forbidden species like Klingon, we know it happened from the television series), but it also makes sense for you to be an ENTIRELY ORIGINAL species that story wise was a species absorbed by the very large and vast Romulan Empire. You would haved a stake in what happens to the Romulans afterward, and fighting the Tal Shiar would be something worth joining the Romulan Republic military for.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
The "slippery slope trap" we'd fall into would be the one that happens when we allow them to lock off previously free content to new expansions.
As you say, is one species important? No. But in the future, it could be entire missions. That's what a slippery slope is by definition. Hitler didn't murder all the Jews out of the blue. They had to be registered first. Then they had to wear patches. Each time was a "tiny incremental change" that "wasn't that bad", until in culminated in something that really really was.
Besides, I think alien generation in Star Trek Online is extremely important. It's the whole reason I bought the game.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
*cough Godwin's Law cough*
But I do agree that its just not a 'perk'. I'm a LTS, so it really doesn't matter one way or another to me. Still, let's call it what it is - a pay gate, one that really doesn't stand much of a chance to entice people to sub. It really just feels like they are only calling it a perk so they can claim they gave us something.
You are right!!! Im Canadian, and live in Japan and thus not defending my own. There is good and bad everywhere but one thing about the USA (and like countries) is that their freedom of expression casts light on many things including thier own flaws. It is ignorant for people to think more poorly of the USA because they give a "warts and all" view of themselves when there are many countries that hide their own evils...
The problem is you're assuming an outcome (missions paywalled) based on a single step (AlienGen paywalled) with no visible pattern established to logically lead to your assumption. One race being paywalled in one faction is an outlying data point at the moment. You can't draw a conclusion from that single data point when the overwhelming majority of existing data pretty plainly points to another pattern.
That's why I said we should also keep a close eye on it. That data point could become a pattern, and we need to watch it. But until we see more, until we have more data to go on, jumping to the conclusion that this instance is the start of a slippery slope is fallacious.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
My question is.. is this only on Romulan fraction? What happens to those that have aliens and are a silver gamer?
Yeah, exactly. Will we get locked out of our existing alien toons? That would be a serious blow.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Honestly...I actually think it would be big enough to bring down STO. Hopefully Cryptic/PWE isn't that suicidal. Hopefully.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Even if they do paywall all Aliens, I highly doubt they'll lock anyone out of an existing toon - Cryptic's F2P setup is incredibly forgiving. This is the game where you can sub for one month and reap the benefits for as long as the game stays up whether you continue subbing or not.
But I do think you're overestimating the pull of a single race. Aliens paywalled wouldn't kill STO. Raise complaint, maybe, but I'd be sincerely shocked if the outrage came anywhere near the Fleet Marks or STF Dilithium debacles.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
Do you really think that Cryptic would do that? Seriously? That would be ridiculously stupid, and TRIBBLE off waaaaay too many people. You know it, I know it, and Cryptic knows it. C'mon, think about it for a minute: How many people are f2p, with at least one Alien toon? If Cryptic did as you're assuming, they'd TRIBBLE off the ACTUAL majority of players.
By the time you've collected enough "data points" to determine whether or not this is a good pattern or a bad pattern, it'll be a bad pattern with precedence and therefor justification.
I don't want to allow it to get that far. Safeguards, whistle-blowers, they all kind of have that job by default.
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
It's easier to TRIBBLE off the newer "newer" players who want to role a Romulan in the new Romulan "faction" that not only lacks starbases like all the other "factions" but also an alien generator for silver players. Right? :P
Check out my Foundry missions
Fed: "To Helna and Back", "Rema Donna", "Animations with Helna", "Mudd's Weapons", "Waiting for Wednesday", "Monolith"
KDF: "Time the Enemy", "Time the Ally", "Time the Traitor"
Not like I am going to refuse to play romulan. Adding wrong prefix, not being a faction having to play for others, getting romulan lockbox ships I'd say we are getting there.
I'd have to see how many new story missions they added to decide if I play romulan or not.
But I guess worst case scenario you passively level your romulan using doff and have him as another alt to farm dilithium on.
At the very least there are new ships and costumes for free but depending on the story volume not a whole lot to get excited about as of yet.
My character Tsin'xing
Wait till the traits system is finalised before getting the torches and pitchforks!
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
It's not a problem Cryptic are perfectly fine with player churn and upsetting the user base and fan base is something they often do, they know it's not a problem because the poor TRIBBLE Star Trek fans will always come back... afterall they have nowhere else to go.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
We the US also denied entrance based on race, Irish need not apply, forced our native inhabitants into exile, created a system that punished non-whites, and moved an entire race of people into internment camps while railing on another empire that did the same. The history of isolationism in general and it's two biggest players (pre-Meijii Japan and pre-WW2 America) is rife with xenophobia. That's generally why you become isolationist.
My character Tsin'xing
This is one of the most salient posts I've seen in the ongoing debate. Some players are so focused in on one aspect of the Romulans (the villains) that they refuse to acknowledge that the various TV series themselves show the Romulans as a more diverse race. It's the leaders, the ones in control, that fall into the villain category. Individual Romulans are far more diverse than that.
We are getting to see some of that diversity. It does kind of play into the Ally system. Different Romulan characters will ally themselves with different factions based on their perspective. The Romulan Empire is fractured; in a way, this gives them -- and us through the Foundry -- the opportunity to develop a far more complex story for this faction.
How we as players respond to it is up to us. There are many opportunities open to us. Far more than if they had gone with the original "mini-faction" concept that would have ended up in the same place anyway (Fed or KDF) -- without 40 levels of faction-specific storyline.
For me, the Romulans sound like a viable faction that I look forward to playing.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.