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Is cryptic/pwe aware that most people are NOT rich???

chaz200565chaz200565 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Looking through various comments about projects,especially the special projects,i see that the vast majority see things as i do. That the projects are heavily expensive,especially in dilithium. 200,000 dilithium for projects like this? Vastly overpriced.
The dilithium cap does NOT help us at all,it just slows things down too much.
If the cap won't be altered or removed altogether,then how about it being heavily discounted in all projects no matter what they are? Better still,how about removing dilithium from all projects,so we can speed through them?
Useful projects are needed,and not banners that look like beach towels on a washing line.
In todays economic climate around the world,not everyone is rich or a lottery winner,enough to spend alot on this game.
If cryptic/pwe want to attract more players,surely cheaper prices is the order of the day.
This would give all a level playing field,and make the game alot fairer.
So cryptic/pwe,please wake up and smell the coffee.
Give us all a fair chance.
Post edited by chaz200565 on
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Comments

  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    chaz200565 wrote: »
    Looking through various comments about projects,especially the special projects,i see that the vast majority see things as i do. That the projects are heavily expensive,especially in dilithium. 200,000 dilithium for projects like this? Vastly overpriced.
    The dilithium cap does NOT help us at all,it just slows things down too much.
    If the cap won't be altered or removed altogether,then how about it being heavily discounted in all projects no matter what they are? Better still,how about removing dilithium from all projects,so we can speed through them?
    Useful projects are needed,and not banners that look like beach towels on a washing line.
    In todays economic climate around the world,not everyone is rich or a lottery winner,enough to spend alot on this game.
    If cryptic/pwe want to attract more players,surely cheaper prices is the order of the day.
    This would give all a level playing field,and make the game alot fairer.
    So cryptic/pwe,please wake up and smell the coffee.
    Give us all a fair chance.

    I'll just jump right in here with the usual response.

    200,000 divided between even 40 people is only 5k dilithium a person. Sure, it's a pain for two people to put together at 100,000 dilithium a pop, but these are fleet projects, for an entire fleet. If you're suggesting the dilithium cap be raised you apparently have some extra time every day to play, perhaps turn that extra time towards recruiting active players to your fleet and developing fleet activities that encourage those active players to stay. The sad truth is that I've never met a good fleet leader/guild leader/cabal leader/team leader that had spare time on his hands.
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    25 people in one fleet each contributing 1 day's worth of Dilithium will finish it immediately. 13 people doing the same thing two days in a row will also finish it.

    Both my Federation and KDF fleets are medium to large size, have fun, nice people in them that I get along with, and we easily complete these projects with no trouble.

    (Blacksheep and Bloodbath and Beyond, freakin' super people.)

    If your fleet is too small, either recruit more people who will contribute, or join a larger fleet. Likewise, these are cosmetic changes, so if they are not something you deem useful, then do not slot them.

    I lead a cross-game community, we have independent clans or guilds in other games, but in STO, we are merged into those other communities. We are not the lesser for it. I recommend you consider something similar, or otherwise learn to deal with it, because it is not going to change.

    I see no issue here.
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • chaz200565chaz200565 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    The minority have spoken. so out of touch with the majority.
  • commanderkassycommanderkassy Member Posts: 1,005 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    chaz200565 wrote: »
    The minority have spoken. so out of touch with the majority.

    By all means, if you want to stereotype and marginalize us, please provide proof or evidence of your assessments. You complained, we countered with our personal knowledge, and not a small amount of logic. If your only retort is to stereotype and marginalize, or "other-ize" and demean us, then you will certainly get yourself nowhere.

    Very unfair.

    Again, I lead a small but tight-knit community. In STO, we merged with larger fleets. It's the only logical course, and we gained some friends in the process. You should either consider the same, or learn to live with it, because, once more, if you expect a change on Cryptic's behalf, you are fooling yourself. It's not even that they don't care, it's simply that there is no way to balance the system, as they have explained several times.
    ♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
    It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    chaz200565 wrote: »
    Damnit, I am the MAJORITY

    I'm not sure you know what that word means.
  • chaz200565chaz200565 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    jermbot wrote: »
    I'm not sure you know what that word means.


    I did not say i am the majority. you are twisting my words.
  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    chaz200565 wrote: »
    I did not say i am the majority. you are twisting my words.

    Oh, my mistake. So you're the minority then? Are you a bigger minority than the tons of people who never come to the forums or complain about dilithium prices?
  • arcademasterarcademaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Also, it's a VANITY project. If you don't think it's worth your time and dil then don't do it. No one is holding a gun to your head.
  • daboholicdaboholic Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Is it that time again already? I didn't realise we were due another Dilithium cap/Project cost is unfair thread again so soon :rolleyes:
  • emacsheadroomemacsheadroom Member Posts: 994 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Hey guys, I just completed a vanity project after grinding and saving dilithium for 3 and a half weeks. It was awesome, because I didn't have to pay a penny!
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    It's threads like this that help me know it's the end of the month, and the beginning of a new one... just got my stipend like Clock work.
    GwaoHAD.png
  • trintrektrontrintrektron Member Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    chaz200565 wrote: »
    Looking through various comments about projects,especially the special projects,i see that the vast majority see things as i do. That the projects are heavily expensive,especially in dilithium. 200,000 dilithium for projects like this? Vastly overpriced.
    The dilithium cap does NOT help us at all,it just slows things down too much.
    If the cap won't be altered or removed altogether,then how about it being heavily discounted in all projects no matter what they are? Better still,how about removing dilithium from all projects,so we can speed through them?
    Useful projects are needed,and not banners that look like beach towels on a washing line.
    In todays economic climate around the world,not everyone is rich or a lottery winner,enough to spend alot on this game.
    If cryptic/pwe want to attract more players,surely cheaper prices is the order of the day.
    This would give all a level playing field,and make the game alot fairer.
    So cryptic/pwe,please wake up and smell the coffee.
    Give us all a fair chance.

    The dil cap is exactly what helps to keep the playing field level. Imagine if Joe, living in moms basement (not that there is anything wrong with that ) playing STO 20 hrs a day has no dil cap. He would hit 200,000 in 2 days tops. Than he would gind another million, cash it in for zen, buy all the ships and do dads and rule the game. As is, Joe prob rules the game anyway but at least I have a shot at it.

    The dil cap could prob be raised a little but it is critical to game balance to keep it in place.

    I do wish dill could be bought on the exchange and I wish it was alittle easier to make ec in the game.

    As far as fleet projects, I wish they where heavier on the fleet credits end. The dill is the last thing to fill up. The credits are full immediately and I am always waiting for the next project. The dill gets full in a couple days usually and I wish I could contribute more but it would help me more if I could put more fleet marks in so I could get more fleet credts.
    I thought I took the Blue Pill.......:(
  • notapwefannotapwefan Member Posts: 1,138 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    why is there an obsession to hit level 5 as soon as possible? Dil cap is fine, and it is Cryptic's way to say "leave keyboard once a while, go outside in real life, smell some flower, so some exercise, watch some chicks in reveling clothing as it is summer outside now."
    Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
    Ain't Nobody Got Time for That


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • opheliadraegonneopheliadraegonne Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Easy solution to the Dil cap is to have a few things give out already refined Dilithium instead of ore. Not many, just a few. Such as the Academy trivia daily and particle scanning event. Have a few Rare Duty Assignments that give out refined D instead of ore.

    As for the cost of Fleet advancement ; don't be absurd. The point is it is supposed to take effort to level up a fleet, and that it should be a team effort. If you do not have fleet members willing to contribute, then you do not have a very good fleet. The best members a fleet will get will be the people joining when it is relatively new that help and stick around, because they will have put time and effort into building it. It will mean something to them.

    You can also run contests. I am second in command in a new fleet, and we are giving away a Caitian Bridge officer to whoever contributes the most to building the Embassy this month.

    Have fun with it.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    First, the Dilithium Cap is an illusion. If you have 10 characters you can grind-out 80,000 Dilithium per day - which is no different then having 1 character grind it out. It's the same amount of time required. You can even have 10 identical characters and ships if you are really hung-up on the idea of not liking to use alts.

    As far as the Fleet projects, as the name states, they are FLEET PROJECTS. They are designed for the Fleet to accomplish. As has been stated many times, Cryptic based the numbers on the assumption of a 25-player Fleet each playing casually.

    I am sorry some players are xenophobic introverts who refuse to make Fleets with other people, but STO is an MMO - Massive Multi-player Online game. It was designed to be played with other people. STO is not an SPG - Single-Player Game.

    This game does not require you to be rich to play it. If you think you need every shiny new thing that comes into the C-Store each month, well, that's your hang-up. I do not need every Fleet special project just because it is there. I can do STFS with my T5 RA ships just as easily as I can my T5.5 C-Store and Fleet ships. It grows tiring constantly listening to people should "Nerf X" for no other reason than they want something now rather than earning it.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • lizweilizwei Member Posts: 936 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    First, the Dilithium Cap is an illusion. If you have 10 characters you can grind-out 80,000 Dilithium per day - which is no different then having 1 character grind it out. It's the same amount of time required. You can even have 10 identical characters and ships if you are really hung-up on the idea of not liking to use alts.

    I don't associate "illusion" with "something you must dedicate an exceptional amount of time and effort to get around".
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    First, the Dilithium Cap is an illusion. If you have 10 characters you can grind-out 80,000 Dilithium per day - which is no different then having 1 character grind it out. It's the same amount of time required. You can even have 10 identical characters and ships if you are really hung-up on the idea of not liking to use alts.

    Bull****. Hitting cap on eight toons in no way takes the same amount of time as hitting cap on one toon.

    And last I looked, there's still an 8k hard cap. Not very illusory to me.
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    As far as the Fleet projects, as the name states, they are FLEET PROJECTS. They are designed for the Fleet to accomplish. As has been stated many times, Cryptic based the numbers on the assumption of a 25-player Fleet each playing casually.


    If you had bothered to read statements coming out of cryptic, you'll notice that their definition of "25 folks playing casually" has magically changed since the inception of the Fleet Holding mechanic.
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I am sorry some players are xenophobic introverts who refuse to make Fleets with other people, but STO is an MMO - Massive Multi-player Online game. It was designed to be played with other people. STO is not an SPG - Single-Player Game.

    And there are vastly more people who have absolutely no interest in being a number in a mob, who actually enjoy knowing the people in their fleet. Additionally, most of those people don't enjoy being locked out of content for the simple fact that they don't want to be a part of the Zerg Swarm.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Bull****. Hitting cap on eight toons in no way takes the same amount of time as hitting cap on one toon.

    And last I looked, there's still an 8k hard cap. Not very illusory to me.
    I run 10,000-20,000 every single day, and convert it all. Feel free to look back on dozens of posts I've made about it on the forums since FTP hit.

    And yes, doing 10-12 STFs with 1 character is certainly no different than doing 5-6 with 2, unless you're counting the character switching time as being some major factor; and the same is true if you're getting it from Dailies or some combination of all the Dilithium events. It's the same amount of time whether on 1 character or 10, barring switching character time. :)
    And there are vastly more people who have absolutely no interest in being a number in a mob, who actually enjoy knowing the people in their fleet. Additionally, most of those people don't enjoy being locked out of content for the simple fact that they don't want to be a part of the Zerg Swarm.
    And those people need to learn that STO is an MMO, whether they like that or not. Otherwise go play one of the Trek SPGs.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • cmdrscarletcmdrscarlet Member Posts: 5,137 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    This game ... a game ... is free. 100%. Nothing ... nothing ... has to be paid for to play it.

    All anyone needs is an internet connection, a computer, and time to play. That is all.

    This is a luxury and Cryptic is fully aware of that. Anything in the game anyone thinks they have to pay for is a decision/problem/concern/illusion they have for themself.

    There is nothing tangible about this game at all. You can't pick it up and play with it - you can't take it to someone's house and share it - it won't rest on a shelf taking space - you can't pass it down from generation to generation. If/when Cryptic shuts down the server then all your time has already been been spent and all you will keep are memories.

    Threads like this complain about ... nothing. It's just a game.
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    lizwei wrote: »
    I don't associate "illusion" with "something you must dedicate an exceptional amount of time and effort to get around".
    The cap is an illusion. Choosing to play 6 hours a day is still choosing to play 6 hours a day, whether you do it with 1 character, 2 characters, of 5 characters.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • dracounguisdracounguis Member Posts: 5,358 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Cryptic /PWE doesn't care if you are rich or poor. F2P kinda shows that. They'll suck money from those they can, and let the poor play for free.
  • cptvanorcptvanor Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Hitting cap on eight toons in no way takes the same amount of time as hitting cap on one toon.

    Wow way to completely miss the whole point. I mean you're not even in the same time zone as the point he was making. Perhaps you should try reading what he said, and not what you want to hear?

    His point is that the time it takes for 1 character to grind 80,000 Dilithium is the same amount of time it would take for 10 characters to grind 8,000 dilithium. So increasing the cap won't actually change anything. Because if the cap is 8, 16, or 320k it still takes time to grind that much ore.

    Wither you grind 16k with 2 characters or 16k with one because they increased the cap, it takes the same amount of time. Well to be completely accurate it would take less time with more characters because if you could refine 16k, you can still only do the dailies once.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    cptvanor wrote: »
    Wow way to completely miss the whole point. I mean you're not even in the same time zone as the point he was making. Perhaps you should try reading what he said, and not what you want to hear?

    Want to go word for word as to what was said?
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    First, the Dilithium Cap is an illusion. If you have 10 characters you can grind-out 80,000 Dilithium per day - which is no different then having 1 character grind it out. It's the same amount of time required. You can even have 10 identical characters and ships if you are really hung-up on the idea of not liking to use alts.

    Nowhere in there is any statement made that he's referring to per character time.

    If the original intent was to communicate the above (that the cap can be somewhat worked around by rabidly alting), than that's what should have been said. Not that grinding out 10 toons worth of dilithium takes the same amount of time to grind out 1 toon worth of dilithium.

    So please, keep your snark to yourself.
  • morkargh117morkargh117 Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    I agree, these aesthetic improvements should be 100k at the most.
  • naeviusnaevius Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    "Jeeves, the peasants are whining again. Please escort them from the door. Oh, and take some dilithium from petty cash and buy some plants for the place."

    "I shall see to it immediately, sir."
    _________________________________________________
    [Kluless][Kold][Steel Heels][Snagtooth]
    [Louis Cipher][Outta Gum][Thysa Kymbo][Spanner][Frakk]
    [D'Mented][D'Licious]
    Joined October 2009. READ BEFORE POSTING
  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Want to go word for word as to what was said?



    Nowhere in there is any statement made that he's referring to per character time.

    If the original intent was to communicate the above (that the cap can be somewhat worked around by rabidly alting), than that's what should have been said. Not that grinding out 10 toons worth of dilithium takes the same amount of time to grind out 1 toon worth of dilithium.

    So please, keep your snark to yourself.
    It seems very clear to me. 10 characters grinding out 80,000 per day - notice I did not say each - requires the same amount of time as 1 character grinding out that amount.
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • stirling191stirling191 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    It seems very clear to me. 10 characters grinding out 80,000 per day - notice I did not say each - requires the same amount of time as 1 character grinding out that amount.

    Way to ignore that magical illusory refinement cap.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    And there are vastly more people who have absolutely no interest in being a number in a mob, who actually enjoy knowing the people in their fleet. Additionally, most of those people don't enjoy being locked out of content for the simple fact that they don't want to be a part of the Zerg Swarm.

    The Devs set up their Fleet holdings system based on their statistics. If there were "vastly more people" in small Fleets, then they would have no complaints. Since they have complaints that the system was not tailored to them, but the Devs based their system on the majority, they are obviously not the majority.

    (Previous analysis of the project requirements have led us to estimate that the Fleet holdings system is aimed at Fleet sizes of 25.)

    Secondly, there is no locked content. If you consider gear to be "content", then you're the reason game companies are hocking worthless DLCs at us (anyone seen the new Lara Croft DLCs?) and deserve the hatred of all gamers.

    Further, by your own stated values the system is balanced.

    Small Fleet Pro: Not part of mob, get to know people.
    Small Fleet Con: Difficult to advance in projects.
    Large Fleet Pro: Easier to advance in projects.
    Large Fleet Con: Part of mob of strangers.

    You don't get to only get the benefits of a choice without suffering the consequences of it. That's not how choices work.
  • arcademasterarcademaster Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Way to ignore that magical illusory refinement cap.

    Oh jesus, he really doesn't get it.

    1. Make Dil on different toons
    2. Make offers to buy Zen for 25 zen
    3. Switch to Main toon and cancel all offers.
    4. ???????
    5. PROFIT
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited March 2013
    Way to ignore that magical illusory refinement cap.
    I can't tell if you're deliberately introducing a red herring into his statement, or honestly have no idea what he said. He is obviously saying the refinement cap is bypassed with multiple characters, and requires no additional effort.

    It takes the same amount of effort to grind 80,000 ore with 10 characters as it does to grind 80,000 ore with 1 character. (Actually, it'd be easier.) This means using 10 characters to refine 80,000 dilithium is functionally equivalent to increasing the refinement cap by a factor of 10.
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