Regarding NW, it's a simpler game (no space) with simpler and more streamlined controls, more development time, a bigger budget, more features like The Foundry at launch, and an IP owner that is more involved with the story and immersion aspects of the property than CBS is with Trek.
It is bound to be a much better launch than Cryptic has had before.
A lot of STO is a hodge podge by comparison.
Really, I think STO would benefit from a second launch, sure.
And I'd love a competing Trek MMO, maybe JJverse or TOS based. I think everyone could benefit from that, even Cryptic.
But the idea of shutting servers down and waiting five years for a new game because this one isn't what you want seems rather petulant to me. Especially since Infinite Space suggested that STO existing doesn't prevent other developers from also doing persistent online Trek games. Cryptic's license isn't necessarily keeping anyone else away so why wish for them to lose it?
NONEXISTENT. Read my post. The post you quoted. I said they would do it DIFFERENT. Not better.
My question to you still remains unanswered. Why?
Why make another game? And as the person a post or two above me said, why does Cryptic/PWE having a Star Trek based game prevent anyone else from doing the same thing?
STO is a theme-park style game loosely centered around the Star Trek universe, not a Star Trek simulator. Stop expecting a company that has been through as many hardships as Cryptic to pop out a perfectly smooth game that meets your exact requirements. If you don't like the way STO is run or how fast it is progressing then leave. Or better yet, apply for a job at Cryptic and help them from the inside, rather than shouting for a remake. (besides, I thought real ST fans hated remakes, no?)
All this whining and moaning about how everything is broken, and how it doesn't feel like Trek is pointless. No-one is forcing you to play, or pay for, this game. It is entirely your choice, and if you don't like the choice you made then be a grown-up and make another.
One last note, and I'm probably going to be told I am hideously wrong here, but does anyone here think that they are ever going to get a straight forward answer from Cryptic regarding the games future? Because you won't. Not as long as PWE and CBS are involved. If I were a gambling man, I would say that PWE and CBS have Cryptic firmly by the short and curlies when it comes to this game, and every single word that Cryptics staff utter in public is vetted, checked, double checked and vetted again before they are allowed to make any kind of announcement.
At this point Cryptic seem more like the messenger than the one sending the message, and all anyone ever does is shoot the messenger.
Why make another game? And as the person a post or two above me said, why does Cryptic/PWE having a Star Trek based game prevent anyone else from doing the same thing?
STO is a theme-park style game loosely centered around the Star Trek universe, not a Star Trek simulator. Stop expecting a company that has been through as many hardships as Cryptic to pop out a perfectly smooth game that meets your exact requirements. If you don't like the way STO is run or how fast it is progressing then leave. Or better yet, apply for a job at Cryptic and help them from the inside, rather than shouting for a remake. (besides, I thought real ST fans hated remakes, no?)
All this whining and moaning about how everything is broken, and how it doesn't feel like Trek is pointless. No-one is forcing you to play, or pay for, this game. It is entirely your choice, and if you don't like the choice you made then be a grown-up and make another.
One last note, and I'm probably going to be told I am hideously wrong here, but does anyone here think that they are ever going to get a straight forward answer from Cryptic regarding the games future? Because you won't. Not as long as PWE and CBS are involved. If I were a gambling man, I would say that PWE and CBS have Cryptic firmly by the short and curlies when it comes to this game, and every single word that Cryptics staff utter in public is vetted, checked, double checked and vetted again before they are allowed to make any kind of announcement.
At this point Cryptic seem more like the messenger than the one sending the message, and all anyone ever does is shoot the messenger.
Yeah i dare say you hit it on the head, PW hold the purse strings and no doubt have all the dealings with CBS, i doubt Cryptic has had much, if any, artisitic input into this game since the day PW took over, which in some weird way actually works in their favour as in the end they can always say we only followed orders.
(Oh come on, at some point in every forum discussion a TRIBBLE refrence must be made, its in the internet forums handbook rule book page 43). lol
Yeah i dare say you hit it on the head, PW hold the purse strings and no doubt have all the dealings with CBS, i doubt Cryptic has had much, if any, artisitic input into this game since the day PW took over, which in some weird way actually works in their favour as in the end they can always say we only followed orders.
(Oh come on, at some point in every forum discussion a TRIBBLE refrence must be made, its in the internet forums handbook rule book page 43). lol
As far as I remember the following orders excuse didn't save anyone at Nuremberg
As far as I remember the following orders excuse didn't save anyone at Nuremberg
Jeez, can we ever get a thread the isn't Godwin'd at some point in its run?
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yeah i dare say you hit it on the head, PW hold the purse strings and no doubt have all the dealings with CBS, i doubt Cryptic has had much, if any, artisitic input into this game since the day PW took over, which in some weird way actually works in their favour as in the end they can always say we only followed orders.
(Oh come on, at some point in every forum discussion a TRIBBLE refrence must be made, its in the internet forums handbook rule book page 43). lol
I'm not saying Cryptic have zero control, or that they would lay all the blame at PWE/CBS's feet, they seem competent enough to take whatever blame is rightfully theirs. But an awful lot of people round here seem to lack a level of understanding when it comes to the business relationships between the three players in this game.
Other, bigger companies have an easier time of things when it comes to their games because usually they own the IP they are working with. In Cryptics case that control is carried by CBS with PWE as the middleman. Imagine how difficult it must be for them.
They come up with a great idea for content, or a timetable for fixes to the current system. They have to take those ideas to both PWE and CBS and then await approval, which likely entails waiting for PWE and CBS to hammer it out between themselves leaving Cryptic to twiddle their thumbs.
That brings us to the second major issue that Cryptic have to deal with, unlike other developer & producer companies. Money. Or rather the lack of control over it. Everything must be budgeted for from simple mission text changes, new ships and everything in between. Every cent would have to be approved by PWE, and if they say no, it doesn't go.
That's why I don't understand the amount of hate and whining levelled at Cryptic. If you want to hate about a game (which is a bit nuts imho) then so be it, but at least have the sense to aim it in the right direction.
Uh, I answered that multiple times in this thread. This is odd. You seem to not be reading what I write but then ask me questions about what I write. What is the purpose of all this?
I keep hearing people complaint about the lock boxes. But have anyone thought about the reason for them.
The main reason they were introduced was because of STO becoming stale around the time of F2P transition but they didn't have enough capital and resources for Cryptic to fix it up and revitalize it. They were short on staff in the first place.
The few people who are willing to dish out to buy the Master Keys and other c-store stuff are funding the game development. Without these lock boxes, the game would still be in the state it was before going F2P.
We are getting new free-content like the fleet base/embassy, the new rep system, and the up coming Romulan contents are because of the lock boxes and the people who buy the keys for them. There are more resources, more employees to work on stuffs, and more ability to take risk because of these lock boxes.
For the record, I've never bought any keys nor openned any locked boxes. I like certainty and not chance. I don't like the idea of gambling away my zen. But I understand why they are here and how other people like them.
Furthermore for the record, I've bought over 10000 zen worth of things but all through in-game dill-zen trade. I enjoy this game for what it is without spending a single penny on it.
I started playing since F2P, but I've heard enough stories to get the stagnant picture of the pre-F2P era. I've followed the game though the development since conception and as a computer science student, I understand how the things happened in development of this game before the first lauch was absolutely terrible.
On a different topic, people keep saying there are bugs that are never fixed. Do we still have the game killing bug where we can't assign Boff to their stations? No.
The bugs we have a nuisance not game killers such as the Bad Blood from WoW.
Yes the UI still lags. Yes we still warp through planets and other objects. These bugs won't kill you in every turn.
Uh, I answered that multiple times in this thread. This is odd. You seem to not be reading what I write but then ask me questions about what I write. What is the purpose of all this?
Perhaps I keep asking because you have yet to provide any good reason why we need STO MK II.
From a financial point of view, such an undertaking would be risky for CBS, so that's one gigantic mark against the idea. From the Star Trek lore point of view everything we have is at the whim of CBS, this would remain true for any company wanting to make a Star Trek game, so there goes another excuse.
How about one of your other reasons? That Cryptic isn't up to the job. It is demonstrably clear that even the largest and most well known companies in the industry are more than capable of putting out terrible games, on a regular basis. So there goes the "Because someone else might do it better/differently/less terribly/with more care" excuse.
None of the reasons cited for making STO MK II stand up to even the most cursory examination by anyone who isn't just a Cryptic hater or serial whiner.
We all know of the bug problems this game has as well as the limitations that the devs have run into as far as the engine goes etc etc. I mean for those that follow guild wars it was a game that had a huge following and while ok it had flaws so they decided scrap it take what worked used better systems and of course they had more time as this was the sequel rolled it all up into a big ball added some pepper and wala Guild Wars 2 whichas I said the original game was good or ok but the second iteration was and is vastly superior so I ask would you support and is it time for Star Trek Online 2???
I read a few replies before coming back to post my own.
This is a very common falacy in the gaming world by players. There is never a need to 'redo' an MMO just to give it a 'new engine'. The current engine in STO is more than adequate to do anything they want it to it's just a matter of allocating resources ($$$) and time to a project to develop whatever features aren't already in the engine that they feel they need. The STO engine is actually still extremely solid and the game barely taps it's full capabilities as it is now.
All making a 'sequel' would do is pull important and valuable resources away from the current game (just when it's starting to feel like a complete game) and have them rebuilding the wheel from scratch when they COULD be busy detailing and enhancing the current game.
Basically all you'd wind up with if they did this would be an unfinished STO and a half assed STO2, especially if you expect them to pump out a full featured MMO in only 2 years time with a skeleton staff.
This isn't even remotely similar to EQ1/EQ2 where EQ1 was a great game but the engine didn't support proper object coding. Thus why when they came out with new areas for the game the graphics in the old areas didn't get bumped as well. Because they didn't use objects the way games now do. In EQ each environment was separately coded with it's own objects and graphics and they didn't think to re-use objects or code them for easy update. STO is much more object oriented (thus why the foundry system works and why new ships and items are so easily added). to refresh the graphics in the entire game is just a matter of some updates to the objects and, voila, all areas get the improvement. Sure it's time intensive but nothing like writing an entire new game would be.
As to the engine not supporting something the programmers want it to do? That's just a matter of modifying the engine to add the feature (which is far easier than obtaining a new engine and writing new code from the ground up).
No, a STO2 is just a bad idea. There's no need and it'd be a huge waste of resources.
** Late Edit**
For details on the engine and the fact that Cryptic is more than capable of enhancing it any way they like all you need to do is read their own website:
"Cryptic utilizes a proprietary engine that contains all the tools needed to efficiently build and operate massive online games. Developed in house, the engine continues to be upgraded and adjusted by its original creators to improve the engine's versatility and functionality. In addition, efficient content generation tools have been incorporated to streamline the development process, allowing real-time testing of art assets within the game environment."
I haven't trudged through the entire length of the thread, But alot of the F2P people don't seem to understand that prior to Perfectworld entertainment Cryptic was owned by ATARI!!! For 6 months or so Cryptic was forced into a massive slowdown because Atari was in trouble and was cutting costs and selling assets!! Atari basically sold Cryptic off to get them solvent and pay off debts, And most Gamers have known about Atari's (Both of them) bad reputation concerning their business practices. Atari went bankrupt before and got bought up by a company whose OWN reputation was tarnished beyond all hope they decided to DITCH their OWN name completely and took on Atari's name for their own....
Atari walked away from the deal with around what(?) $49. million and while the official date of the announcement they were getting rid of Cryptic was about a month before the announcement that PWE bought Cryptic, there had been signs here long before then. Also they had to spend about another 6 months getting the game ready to go F2P under PWE.....
Give the guys at Cryptic a chance will ya, They haven't exactly had the easiest of roads on which to work, Be thankful that STO Didn't wind up in Gaming Limbo because of the issues surrounding the guys who pay the bills...........
Edit: Also the Cryptic Game engine is used Across Champions Online, Star Trek Online, And the new Neverwinter game. Of which the improvements made to the engine for one game cascades into the other 2, Basically the more they build and change the engine in Neverwinter, the more upgrades and features the other 2 get........
Already asked. Already answered. Multiple times in this thread. You make absolutely no sense. You've already read my answer to your question. At least twice.
I haven't trudged through the entire length of the thread, But alot of the F2P people don't seem to understand that prior to Perfectworld entertainment Cryptic was owned by ATARI!!! For 6 months or so Cryptic was forced into a massive slowdown because Atari was in trouble and was cutting costs and selling assets!! Atari basically sold Cryptic off to get them solvent and pay off debts, And most Gamers have known about Atari's (Both of them) bad reputation concerning their business practices. Atari went bankrupt before and got bought up by a company whose OWN reputation was tarnished beyond all hope they decided to DITCH their OWN name completely and took on Atari's name for their own....
Atari walked away from the deal with around what(?) $49. million and while the official date of the announcement they were getting rid of Cryptic was about a month before the announcement that PWE bought Cryptic, there had been signs here long before then. Also they had to spend about another 6 months getting the game ready to go F2P under PWE.....
Give the guys at Cryptic a chance will ya, They haven't exactly had the easiest of roads on which to work, Be thankful that STO Didn't wind up in Gaming Limbo because of the issues surrounding the guys who pay the bills...........
Edit: Also the Cryptic Game engine is used Across Champions Online, Star Trek Online, And the new Neverwinter game. Of which the improvements made to the engine for one game cascades into the other 2, Basically the more they build and change the engine in Neverwinter, the more upgrades and features the other 2 get........
This is exactly what I was saying.
I think trying to drum these plain and simple truths in to some people is a waste of time and effort, it seems they are happiest when they are complaining about everyone and everything, all the while suggesting that black is white, up is down and that Cryptic should give up and let some random company "have a go". Give up trying to convince these people while you still have your sanity.
And by the way, not all F2P players are ignorant of the plain and obvious facts. I myself am a F2P player. Having now enjoyed the game for almost 3 months I am satisfied enough to shell out the ?300 or so it would cost to go lifetime just as soon as I have the real life funds.
and that Cryptic should give up and let some random company "have a go".
Cryptic has given up on at least two titles I can think of already. City of Heroes. And the Marvel Comics MMO.
Having now enjoyed the game for almost 3 months I am satisfied enough to shell out the ?300 or so it would cost to go lifetime just as soon as I have the real life funds.
You've only been playing this game for 3 months? Also, buying an LTS is a waste of your money. You can just take that same money, and spend it ala carte to get more bang for your buck. Unless you want one of the vet rewards super badly. But that's a high price to pay for those.
Cryptic has given up on at least two titles I can think of already. City of Heroes. And the Marvel Comics MMO.
You've only been playing this game for 3 months? Also, buying an LTS is a waste of your money. You can just take that same money, and spend it ala carte to get more bang for your buck. Unless you want one of the vet rewards super badly. But that's a high price to pay for those.
So because Cryptic cut their losses and decided to focus on a better, more profitable product this makes them what? Stupid? Unfit to run a Star Trek game? Or a business? Hmm.
And yes, I have only been playing STO for 3 months or so. I have however been playing online games for over ten year, one in particular I played for 8 years and 6 months. I have the ability to see past flaws and bugs (frustrating though they are) to find whats underneath. When I did this with Cryptic and STO I found a game worth sticking with, and worth giving my money to.
Being new does not make my judgement any less valid; I've been in games where the company ballsed up every which way possible, one of them even managed to put a piece of code in their software that deleted the boot.ini file from peoples Win installations. Did I quit and throw tantrums on the forums?
No. I sat back, thought about how hard a job it must be to try and please hundreds of thousands of paying customers, investors and colleagues, all on tight time constraints and with a limited budget. And then about what I might lose by sticking with them, which amounted to "Whatever I choose to lose". I choose to play a game, I choose to pay for them, and I do so knowing full well I may not always be happy and I may not always get what I want. But I never forget it is because I choose to be here.
There are two things that serve me well, and that others may find beneficial. Intelligence and Empathy. Intelligence enough to grasp the fundamentals of game design, QA, marketing and revenue sources, and empathetic enough to understand what the previous terms might mean to someone who has to live and work by them. Put both of those together and you may gain an appreciation you so far seem to lack.
So because Cryptic cut their losses and decided to focus on a better, more profitable product this makes them what? Stupid? Unfit to run a Star Trek game? Or a business? Hmm.
Their fitness as a business is something quite a few people question, since they've been sold twice already in their own short history.
And yes, I have only been playing STO for 3 months or so.
That's fine. It definitely explains your shining enthusiasm.
When I did this with Cryptic and STO I found a game worth sticking with, and worth giving my money to.
That's cool. But the LTS was really only a good value back at the beginning. When the game was only available for a sub. At this point, you can sub for one month, get all of those perks save the vet rewards and inherent LTS rewards, and then purchase a few unlocks ala carte. Your money can be better spent without the LTS. That's just the math of their business model. Take for instance, the sub cost. You would get more value out of your cash by spending that same amount of cash on straight zen each month than getting the stipend.
All the LTS comes down to is the vet rewards and the LTS rewards. Which currently don't really amount to something that's worth the cost. Take the ship for instance. Instead of getting the Chimera, take that same 300 bucks and buy Lobi keys and resell them to raise the EC to buy the JHAS off the Exchange instead. You get a better ship and probably for 50 to 100 bucks less money.
Being new does not make my judgement any less valid;
True. But you do lack a certain amount of perspective regarding this game's development history.
There are two things that serve me well, and that others may find beneficial. Intelligence and Empathy.
I've got experience and wisdom on my side. I've beta tested every game Cryptic has made except for Neverwinter. I've been a customer of theirs from the very beginning. I have a ton of experience with their products. That's much more valuable than empathy when trying to value one's resources like time and money.
Cryptic has given up on at least two titles I can think of already. City of Heroes. And the Marvel Comics MMO.
You've only been playing this game for 3 months? Also, buying an LTS is a waste of your money. You can just take that same money, and spend it ala carte to get more bang for your buck. Unless you want one of the vet rewards super badly. But that's a high price to pay for those.
You are overlooking the monthly stipend that you get as well. Ala carte is better short term, but long term LTS will eventually pull ahead.
I do have to admit though that now that they are with PW they seem to be a lot more steady than they were hell the other Op was right they were in danger of getting put into limbo
Having now enjoyed the game for almost 3 months I am satisfied enough to shell out the ?300 or so it would cost to go lifetime just as soon as I have the real life funds.
This isn't Cryptics game anymore it is PWE and there is no fee as it is all free and you can forget this as PWE wouldn't go along with it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
Their fitness as a business is something quite a few people question, since they've been sold twice already in their own short history.
Yes, the first time they sold themselves to Atari, a move carried out by an astounding number of companies all over the world every week. Its called raising capital and it is quite a common thing for small businesses to do.
The second sale was by Atari to PWE. This news was well documented and those of us who follow the ups and downs of the gaming industry were well aware of Atari losing focus and shedding those parts of itself that it no longer deemed to be "in-line with the companies direction". That included Cryptic Studios.
So you see, trying to assert that Cryptic are somehow a second rate company merely because they have been bought twice does not work so well when things called "facts" are available.
That's fine. It definitely explains your shining enthusiasm.
My enthusiasm has little to do with my being new but rather because I am a Star Trek fan, as well as a fan of "the little guy", which I believe would be a fair description of Cryptic.
But the LTS was really only a good value back at the beginning
Somebody else already covered this so I need not bother, though I had already worked out within a week of joining STO that getting a LTS would make more sense financially as I fully intend on playing this game for as long as it remains active.
All the LTS comes down to is the vet rewards and the LTS rewards. Which currently don't really amount to something that's worth the cost. Take the ship for instance. Instead of getting the Chimera, take that same 300 bucks and buy Lobi keys and resell them to raise the EC to buy the JHAS off the Exchange instead. You get a better ship and probably for 50 to 100 bucks less money.
Value is a subjective term. What you find valuable could be junk to someone else, and vice versa. Thus your comment is based on nothing more than your own personal feelings, and not any real facts.
True. But you do lack a certain amount of perspective regarding this game's development history.
You are correct in stating that I lack first hand experience with this particular company. This does not however preclude me from forming an opinion, nor of having had similar experiences with other companies (which I have) that allow me to transpose said experiences on to my current game of choice.
I've got experience and wisdom on my side. I've beta tested every game Cryptic has made except for Neverwinter. I've been a customer of theirs from the very beginning. I have a ton of experience with their products. That's much more valuable than empathy when trying to value one's resources like time and money.
Being a Beta tester does not impart wisdom. And a company is more than just its products. It seems you allow your emotional attachment either to your money, or maybe to Star Trek itself, to overshadow common sense.
You may also wish to re-read the final paragraph in my previous post. I did not state that empathy alone was the deciding factor in how I allocate what resources I do have, I merely stated that it played a part in it.
Cryptic has given up on at least two titles I can think of already. City of Heroes. And the Marvel Comics MMO.
Cryptic didn't "give up" on either of those titles. They sold City of Heroes to NCSoft because NCSoft wasn't involved in the Marvel Comics MMO and didn't want Cryptic splitting their focus to a competing product. It was already under development at the time.
As for the cancellation of the Marvel MMO, that was all Marvel; Cryptic had no say in that, Marvel pulled out when they finally came to believe Cryptic telling them that it wouldn't compete with WoW. And Cryptic didn't "give up" on that game, they retooled it and released it; it's Champions Online.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Comments
It is bound to be a much better launch than Cryptic has had before.
A lot of STO is a hodge podge by comparison.
Really, I think STO would benefit from a second launch, sure.
And I'd love a competing Trek MMO, maybe JJverse or TOS based. I think everyone could benefit from that, even Cryptic.
But the idea of shutting servers down and waiting five years for a new game because this one isn't what you want seems rather petulant to me. Especially since Infinite Space suggested that STO existing doesn't prevent other developers from also doing persistent online Trek games. Cryptic's license isn't necessarily keeping anyone else away so why wish for them to lose it?
My question to you still remains unanswered. Why?
Why make another game? And as the person a post or two above me said, why does Cryptic/PWE having a Star Trek based game prevent anyone else from doing the same thing?
STO is a theme-park style game loosely centered around the Star Trek universe, not a Star Trek simulator. Stop expecting a company that has been through as many hardships as Cryptic to pop out a perfectly smooth game that meets your exact requirements. If you don't like the way STO is run or how fast it is progressing then leave. Or better yet, apply for a job at Cryptic and help them from the inside, rather than shouting for a remake. (besides, I thought real ST fans hated remakes, no?)
All this whining and moaning about how everything is broken, and how it doesn't feel like Trek is pointless. No-one is forcing you to play, or pay for, this game. It is entirely your choice, and if you don't like the choice you made then be a grown-up and make another.
One last note, and I'm probably going to be told I am hideously wrong here, but does anyone here think that they are ever going to get a straight forward answer from Cryptic regarding the games future? Because you won't. Not as long as PWE and CBS are involved. If I were a gambling man, I would say that PWE and CBS have Cryptic firmly by the short and curlies when it comes to this game, and every single word that Cryptics staff utter in public is vetted, checked, double checked and vetted again before they are allowed to make any kind of announcement.
At this point Cryptic seem more like the messenger than the one sending the message, and all anyone ever does is shoot the messenger.
Sig by my better half.
Yeah i dare say you hit it on the head, PW hold the purse strings and no doubt have all the dealings with CBS, i doubt Cryptic has had much, if any, artisitic input into this game since the day PW took over, which in some weird way actually works in their favour as in the end they can always say we only followed orders.
(Oh come on, at some point in every forum discussion a TRIBBLE refrence must be made, its in the internet forums handbook rule book page 43). lol
As far as I remember the following orders excuse didn't save anyone at Nuremberg
#2311#2700#2316#2500
LOL.
At least when their head guy left he never came back.
What!! Too soon. lol
Jeez, can we ever get a thread the isn't Godwin'd at some point in its run?
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Lol ooooooo "Zyng"
Wasn't me I was just the messenger
#2311#2700#2316#2500
I'm not saying Cryptic have zero control, or that they would lay all the blame at PWE/CBS's feet, they seem competent enough to take whatever blame is rightfully theirs. But an awful lot of people round here seem to lack a level of understanding when it comes to the business relationships between the three players in this game.
Other, bigger companies have an easier time of things when it comes to their games because usually they own the IP they are working with. In Cryptics case that control is carried by CBS with PWE as the middleman. Imagine how difficult it must be for them.
They come up with a great idea for content, or a timetable for fixes to the current system. They have to take those ideas to both PWE and CBS and then await approval, which likely entails waiting for PWE and CBS to hammer it out between themselves leaving Cryptic to twiddle their thumbs.
That brings us to the second major issue that Cryptic have to deal with, unlike other developer & producer companies. Money. Or rather the lack of control over it. Everything must be budgeted for from simple mission text changes, new ships and everything in between. Every cent would have to be approved by PWE, and if they say no, it doesn't go.
That's why I don't understand the amount of hate and whining levelled at Cryptic. If you want to hate about a game (which is a bit nuts imho) then so be it, but at least have the sense to aim it in the right direction.
Sig by my better half.
Uh, I answered that multiple times in this thread. This is odd. You seem to not be reading what I write but then ask me questions about what I write. What is the purpose of all this?
The main reason they were introduced was because of STO becoming stale around the time of F2P transition but they didn't have enough capital and resources for Cryptic to fix it up and revitalize it. They were short on staff in the first place.
The few people who are willing to dish out to buy the Master Keys and other c-store stuff are funding the game development. Without these lock boxes, the game would still be in the state it was before going F2P.
We are getting new free-content like the fleet base/embassy, the new rep system, and the up coming Romulan contents are because of the lock boxes and the people who buy the keys for them. There are more resources, more employees to work on stuffs, and more ability to take risk because of these lock boxes.
For the record, I've never bought any keys nor openned any locked boxes. I like certainty and not chance. I don't like the idea of gambling away my zen. But I understand why they are here and how other people like them.
Furthermore for the record, I've bought over 10000 zen worth of things but all through in-game dill-zen trade. I enjoy this game for what it is without spending a single penny on it.
I started playing since F2P, but I've heard enough stories to get the stagnant picture of the pre-F2P era. I've followed the game though the development since conception and as a computer science student, I understand how the things happened in development of this game before the first lauch was absolutely terrible.
On a different topic, people keep saying there are bugs that are never fixed. Do we still have the game killing bug where we can't assign Boff to their stations? No.
The bugs we have a nuisance not game killers such as the Bad Blood from WoW.
Yes the UI still lags. Yes we still warp through planets and other objects. These bugs won't kill you in every turn.
Perhaps I keep asking because you have yet to provide any good reason why we need STO MK II.
From a financial point of view, such an undertaking would be risky for CBS, so that's one gigantic mark against the idea. From the Star Trek lore point of view everything we have is at the whim of CBS, this would remain true for any company wanting to make a Star Trek game, so there goes another excuse.
How about one of your other reasons? That Cryptic isn't up to the job. It is demonstrably clear that even the largest and most well known companies in the industry are more than capable of putting out terrible games, on a regular basis. So there goes the "Because someone else might do it better/differently/less terribly/with more care" excuse.
None of the reasons cited for making STO MK II stand up to even the most cursory examination by anyone who isn't just a Cryptic hater or serial whiner.
So once more I ask why?.
Sig by my better half.
NO!
EFF NO!
Joined - 9/2011
"You Best Make Peace With Your Dear & Fluffy Lord" - Malcolm Reynolds
One could make the argument that if what we saw today is what we get in May. Legacy of Romulus will basically be STO2.
Cryptic Account: Robert_Praetori
If you would like to think of the first expansion of STO as STO2, then I guess that would be ok for you.
I read a few replies before coming back to post my own.
This is a very common falacy in the gaming world by players. There is never a need to 'redo' an MMO just to give it a 'new engine'. The current engine in STO is more than adequate to do anything they want it to it's just a matter of allocating resources ($$$) and time to a project to develop whatever features aren't already in the engine that they feel they need. The STO engine is actually still extremely solid and the game barely taps it's full capabilities as it is now.
All making a 'sequel' would do is pull important and valuable resources away from the current game (just when it's starting to feel like a complete game) and have them rebuilding the wheel from scratch when they COULD be busy detailing and enhancing the current game.
Basically all you'd wind up with if they did this would be an unfinished STO and a half assed STO2, especially if you expect them to pump out a full featured MMO in only 2 years time with a skeleton staff.
This isn't even remotely similar to EQ1/EQ2 where EQ1 was a great game but the engine didn't support proper object coding. Thus why when they came out with new areas for the game the graphics in the old areas didn't get bumped as well. Because they didn't use objects the way games now do. In EQ each environment was separately coded with it's own objects and graphics and they didn't think to re-use objects or code them for easy update. STO is much more object oriented (thus why the foundry system works and why new ships and items are so easily added). to refresh the graphics in the entire game is just a matter of some updates to the objects and, voila, all areas get the improvement. Sure it's time intensive but nothing like writing an entire new game would be.
As to the engine not supporting something the programmers want it to do? That's just a matter of modifying the engine to add the feature (which is far easier than obtaining a new engine and writing new code from the ground up).
No, a STO2 is just a bad idea. There's no need and it'd be a huge waste of resources.
** Late Edit**
For details on the engine and the fact that Cryptic is more than capable of enhancing it any way they like all you need to do is read their own website:
"Cryptic utilizes a proprietary engine that contains all the tools needed to efficiently build and operate massive online games. Developed in house, the engine continues to be upgraded and adjusted by its original creators to improve the engine's versatility and functionality. In addition, efficient content generation tools have been incorporated to streamline the development process, allowing real-time testing of art assets within the game environment."
- Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!
Atari walked away from the deal with around what(?) $49. million and while the official date of the announcement they were getting rid of Cryptic was about a month before the announcement that PWE bought Cryptic, there had been signs here long before then. Also they had to spend about another 6 months getting the game ready to go F2P under PWE.....
Give the guys at Cryptic a chance will ya, They haven't exactly had the easiest of roads on which to work, Be thankful that STO Didn't wind up in Gaming Limbo because of the issues surrounding the guys who pay the bills...........
Edit: Also the Cryptic Game engine is used Across Champions Online, Star Trek Online, And the new Neverwinter game. Of which the improvements made to the engine for one game cascades into the other 2, Basically the more they build and change the engine in Neverwinter, the more upgrades and features the other 2 get........
This is exactly what I was saying.
I think trying to drum these plain and simple truths in to some people is a waste of time and effort, it seems they are happiest when they are complaining about everyone and everything, all the while suggesting that black is white, up is down and that Cryptic should give up and let some random company "have a go". Give up trying to convince these people while you still have your sanity.
And by the way, not all F2P players are ignorant of the plain and obvious facts. I myself am a F2P player. Having now enjoyed the game for almost 3 months I am satisfied enough to shell out the ?300 or so it would cost to go lifetime just as soon as I have the real life funds.
Sig by my better half.
Cryptic has given up on at least two titles I can think of already. City of Heroes. And the Marvel Comics MMO.
You've only been playing this game for 3 months? Also, buying an LTS is a waste of your money. You can just take that same money, and spend it ala carte to get more bang for your buck. Unless you want one of the vet rewards super badly. But that's a high price to pay for those.
So because Cryptic cut their losses and decided to focus on a better, more profitable product this makes them what? Stupid? Unfit to run a Star Trek game? Or a business? Hmm.
And yes, I have only been playing STO for 3 months or so. I have however been playing online games for over ten year, one in particular I played for 8 years and 6 months. I have the ability to see past flaws and bugs (frustrating though they are) to find whats underneath. When I did this with Cryptic and STO I found a game worth sticking with, and worth giving my money to.
Being new does not make my judgement any less valid; I've been in games where the company ballsed up every which way possible, one of them even managed to put a piece of code in their software that deleted the boot.ini file from peoples Win installations. Did I quit and throw tantrums on the forums?
No. I sat back, thought about how hard a job it must be to try and please hundreds of thousands of paying customers, investors and colleagues, all on tight time constraints and with a limited budget. And then about what I might lose by sticking with them, which amounted to "Whatever I choose to lose". I choose to play a game, I choose to pay for them, and I do so knowing full well I may not always be happy and I may not always get what I want. But I never forget it is because I choose to be here.
There are two things that serve me well, and that others may find beneficial. Intelligence and Empathy. Intelligence enough to grasp the fundamentals of game design, QA, marketing and revenue sources, and empathetic enough to understand what the previous terms might mean to someone who has to live and work by them. Put both of those together and you may gain an appreciation you so far seem to lack.
Sig by my better half.
Their fitness as a business is something quite a few people question, since they've been sold twice already in their own short history.
That's fine. It definitely explains your shining enthusiasm.
That's cool. But the LTS was really only a good value back at the beginning. When the game was only available for a sub. At this point, you can sub for one month, get all of those perks save the vet rewards and inherent LTS rewards, and then purchase a few unlocks ala carte. Your money can be better spent without the LTS. That's just the math of their business model. Take for instance, the sub cost. You would get more value out of your cash by spending that same amount of cash on straight zen each month than getting the stipend.
All the LTS comes down to is the vet rewards and the LTS rewards. Which currently don't really amount to something that's worth the cost. Take the ship for instance. Instead of getting the Chimera, take that same 300 bucks and buy Lobi keys and resell them to raise the EC to buy the JHAS off the Exchange instead. You get a better ship and probably for 50 to 100 bucks less money.
True. But you do lack a certain amount of perspective regarding this game's development history.
I've got experience and wisdom on my side. I've beta tested every game Cryptic has made except for Neverwinter. I've been a customer of theirs from the very beginning. I have a ton of experience with their products. That's much more valuable than empathy when trying to value one's resources like time and money.
You are overlooking the monthly stipend that you get as well. Ala carte is better short term, but long term LTS will eventually pull ahead.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Yes, the first time they sold themselves to Atari, a move carried out by an astounding number of companies all over the world every week. Its called raising capital and it is quite a common thing for small businesses to do.
The second sale was by Atari to PWE. This news was well documented and those of us who follow the ups and downs of the gaming industry were well aware of Atari losing focus and shedding those parts of itself that it no longer deemed to be "in-line with the companies direction". That included Cryptic Studios.
So you see, trying to assert that Cryptic are somehow a second rate company merely because they have been bought twice does not work so well when things called "facts" are available.
My enthusiasm has little to do with my being new but rather because I am a Star Trek fan, as well as a fan of "the little guy", which I believe would be a fair description of Cryptic.
Somebody else already covered this so I need not bother, though I had already worked out within a week of joining STO that getting a LTS would make more sense financially as I fully intend on playing this game for as long as it remains active.
Value is a subjective term. What you find valuable could be junk to someone else, and vice versa. Thus your comment is based on nothing more than your own personal feelings, and not any real facts.
You are correct in stating that I lack first hand experience with this particular company. This does not however preclude me from forming an opinion, nor of having had similar experiences with other companies (which I have) that allow me to transpose said experiences on to my current game of choice.
Being a Beta tester does not impart wisdom. And a company is more than just its products. It seems you allow your emotional attachment either to your money, or maybe to Star Trek itself, to overshadow common sense.
You may also wish to re-read the final paragraph in my previous post. I did not state that empathy alone was the deciding factor in how I allocate what resources I do have, I merely stated that it played a part in it.
Sig by my better half.
Cryptic didn't "give up" on either of those titles. They sold City of Heroes to NCSoft because NCSoft wasn't involved in the Marvel Comics MMO and didn't want Cryptic splitting their focus to a competing product. It was already under development at the time.
As for the cancellation of the Marvel MMO, that was all Marvel; Cryptic had no say in that, Marvel pulled out when they finally came to believe Cryptic telling them that it wouldn't compete with WoW. And Cryptic didn't "give up" on that game, they retooled it and released it; it's Champions Online.