"You may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting." --Spock, "Amok Time"
Indeed the allure of a Star Trek Video game did not for me at least anyways convert into a game worth playing, well not in it's current state at least.
People do that all the time. Like say, when they buy a brand new video game to play. Video games are consumable entertainment. You will eventually move on from this game. It happens to everyone. Even the guy in charge of the game left it and came back to it.
First off I do not want to start over indeed, second why STO 2 what would that accomplish, exactly nothing would it accomplish only that you have to start over again .
But if they want to start over with the same rights they now have, what do you want them to set up ?
Personal I would advice something like Bridge commander a bit more easy, less bugs.
Also with the freedom to roam around your own ship I would sign for that.
OK you are right it should be much more advanced then BC off course and with the ability to beam down yourself but also the ability to stay on board and let your first handle the away mission.
And if they build that next to the Original STO, I certainly would like to pay for an LTS or an Subscription fee or like all other things F2P ...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
It would end the Dilithium grind and start you off on a new mission. A mission where you seek out new life and new civilizations. Where you boldly go where no game has gone before!
But if they want to start over with the same rights they now have, what do you want them to set up ?
Them? Have you not read what I posted? Cryptic can't make a sequel to this game. They are too small a company. Neverwinter Online has been pushed back and pushed back and pushed back because they have trouble making a D&D "OMG" as Jack Emmert calls it. This company can't get the staff or resources together to make a sequel.
But another company could. And that would include a different licensing agreement. And a whole different feel to it. A new, fresh take, on Trek as an MMO.
It would end the Dilithium grind and start you off on a new mission. A mission where you seek out new life and new civilizations. Where you boldly go where no game has gone before!
Them? Have you not read what I posted? Cryptic can't make a sequel to this game. They are too small a company. Neverwinter Online has been pushed back and pushed back and pushed back because they have trouble making a D&D "OMG" as Jack Emmert calls it. This company can't get the staff or resources together to make a sequel.
But another company could. And that would include a different licensing agreement. And a whole different feel to it. A new, fresh take, on Trek as an MMO.
So they sell the rights to Electronic Arts , Well the game would be great maybe but at what cost....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Now tell me why you think any other company would do it better.
I don't think another company would "do it better."
They'd do it differently. This would have things that are better. Things that are worse. They'd not have some of the annoying bugs this game has. They'd have brand new annoying bugs.
But another company would have a few things that Cryptic doesn't, and those are things I value.
1- Better QA. Cryptic is terrible at quality assurance. They have told us that they can't take a patch backwards. That once it is on Tribble it's going to Holodeck no matter how many bugs are found. Other companies actually use their test server in a way that allows them to stop them from sending bugs live. A QA process that allows them to "stop the presses" as it were and make sure bad things don't go live.
2- A better take on the IP. Cryptic started off with an interesting idea. The Undine infiltration causing a war between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire. But three years into this, it's all out of whack. There's no sign of the Undine since they released a half done Pelia sector. The KDF and Federation are working together on most things. And people are flying ships that belong to the Tholians, the 29th Century, and the Dominion. It's gone astray. A new company would have a chance to get back to something that made sense.
3- Follow through. A new company might not be as bold as Cryptic. I'll give them that, they kept trying crazy things, like Diplomacy, and First Person Shooter mode, and we're about to do Crafting version 4.0 or whatever. But Cryptic has a problem with follow through. They leave everything half done and incomplete. Diplomacy was never finished. DOFFs aren't finished. First Person Shooter Mode, Exploration, Reputation, Starbases, it's all got characteristics that are unfinished. A new company would probably not try to do so many bold and large systems based changes. So we'd miss out on some of that excitement. But in the end, it would make for better gameplay because what does get done, would get done complete.
Yeah, there'd be a whole new set of issues, problems, bugs and things to complain about with a new company doing a Trek MMO.
But the value I place on QA, the IP's integrity, and finished systems are such that I would welcome a new, fresh take on Trek.
And as we're seeing with Neverwinter Online, Cryptic just doesn't have the horses to run this race again. STO is in maintenance mode and has been for two years. Potential? This game doesn't have the staff to realize its potential. It's like trying to talk about the ceiling of a 27 year old NBA guard. He's already reached his ceiling. And while you know exactly what you have with that player, you also know that the 19 year old raw unpolished kid in the draft already can do more than what you have. You then need to think about change. That is if you're committed to winning the championship. Some teams are committed to ticket sales/profits and mediocrity. Like the Atlanta Hawks for the past 12 years. Cryptic tries to be the Oklahoma City Thunder, but ends up being the Atlanta Hawks.
EA makes FIFA, Madden and Hockey games that are amazing. That's about it.
I know but they know how to make a game work .... take STWOR for all 50 levels i was in the front off my chair never had a dull moment, it was completely VO, good textures and it all make sense, it was 100% star wars !!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Star Trek Online, the Cryptic edition, is a relatively good game, and being a lifer in a couple of others (not here, i didn't trust them after seeing CO), i find myself returning to this game, and playing it, enjoying it the most.
I honestly think there is potential for more, and if the RL situation (as new JJ films or a series in the next 1-3 years) will be good, it could come out blooming once more.
Long Live STO (fix the bugs already)
SWTOR - i'Ve made the first 18 lvls, got bored. anyone wants my account? i've paid a bit there too
llok guys im not saying the game is horrid its not ....compared to launch but a sto 2 would fix a lot of stuff just like guild wars 2 did for guild wars
I don't think another company would "do it better."
They'd do it differently. This would have things that are better. Things that are worse. They'd not have some of the annoying bugs this game has. They'd have brand new annoying bugs.
But another company would have a few things that Cryptic doesn't, and those are things I value.
1- Better QA. Cryptic is terrible at quality assurance. They have told us that they can't take a patch backwards. That once it is on Tribble it's going to Holodeck no matter how many bugs are found. Other companies actually use their test server in a way that allows them to stop them from sending bugs live. A QA process that allows them to "stop the presses" as it were and make sure bad things don't go live.
2- A better take on the IP. Cryptic started off with an interesting idea. The Undine infiltration causing a war between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire. But three years into this, it's all out of whack. There's no sign of the Undine since they released a half done Pelia sector. The KDF and Federation are working together on most things. And people are flying ships that belong to the Tholians, the 29th Century, and the Dominion. It's gone astray. A new company would have a chance to get back to something that made sense.
3- Follow through. A new company might not be as bold as Cryptic. I'll give them that, they kept trying crazy things, like Diplomacy, and First Person Shooter mode, and we're about to do Crafting version 4.0 or whatever. But Cryptic has a problem with follow through. They leave everything half done and incomplete. Diplomacy was never finished. DOFFs aren't finished. First Person Shooter Mode, Exploration, Reputation, Starbases, it's all got characteristics that are unfinished. A new company would probably not try to do so many bold and large systems based changes. So we'd miss out on some of that excitement. But in the end, it would make for better gameplay because what does get done, would get done complete.
Yeah, there'd be a whole new set of issues, problems, bugs and things to complain about with a new company doing a Trek MMO.
But the value I place on QA, the IP's integrity, and finished systems are such that I would welcome a new, fresh take on Trek.
And as we're seeing with Neverwinter Online, Cryptic just doesn't have the horses to run this race again. STO is in maintenance mode and has been for two years. Potential? This game doesn't have the staff to realize its potential. It's like trying to talk about the ceiling of a 27 year old NBA guard. He's already reached his ceiling. And while you know exactly what you have with that player, you also know that the 19 year old raw unpolished kid in the draft already can do more than what you have. You then need to think about change. That is if you're committed to winning the championship. Some teams are committed to ticket sales/profits and mediocrity. Like the Atlanta Hawks for the past 12 years. Cryptic tries to be the Oklahoma City Thunder, but ends up being the Atlanta Hawks.
Hmm, you did read my previous did you not? To sum it up, the majority of the largest, most well funded and long lasting games producers have ALL produced games that had such disgustingly poor QA work done on them, that games were released with bugs that in some cases literally killed peoples consoles.
You assertion that another company could do better than Cryptic is farsical at best. How many patches have Cryptic released that killed peoples computers? As for Cryptic allowing broken code to "go live" I'll refer you back to my previous post again where I raised the well documented "corrupted blood" bug and the bug that allowed level one players to insta-kill anyone they met, including max level players. Do you see where this is going?
On to your next point, that of a "better take on the IP". It may have escaped your attention, but neither Cryptic nor PWE own the Trek IP; that belongs to CBS, and it is they who have the final say on what gets put in this game. If they nix it, then it doesn't happen. If this causes you concern, perhaps instead of screaming at Cryptic about it, you write CBS a nice letter instead.
And finally, the issue of follow through. Here would be the only point on which we agree, and then only up to a certain point. You should try to remember that for a whole year, during Cryptics sale, there was no funding and very few staff. That of course led to the apparently infamous "no cups in the kitchen" situation.Recovering from such a devastating blow would take any company a long time to recover from, then throw in the fact that the new bosses (PWE) had different plans for STO compared to the old bosses and you have a recipe for killing a game dead inside of a few months.
I won't say STO is perfect, I've been gaming for far too long to get dewy eyed and "fanboyish" over this sort of thing, but when you stop for more than three seconds and actually think about the logistics of STO's birth and early childhood, the fact its still here is nothing short of a miracle. Give Cryptic a few more years, let them off the leash and they may just surprise you.
Or you can throw in the towel and cry, scream that it isn't what you want and demand that mummy and daddy CBS dump 3 years of hardwork in the toilet and risk it all again for no reason other than that a few people want "more more more, now now now".
I know which side of the fence I'll be standing on. Do you?
I'd like to believe that Cryptic is trying their best to deliver but some decisions (and very important ones) depends upon financial department and stakeholders. Pretty sure that if you have worked in software development industry then you know how much financial department pisses you off
Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
Bah, don't think so. Ever heard of continuous integration. I think this describes the development process of STO. And bugs are an other book. They will come and get be fixed. A game title with a "2" do not change anything on that.
Originally Posted by duaths1
frankly, i cannot imagine how an another company could do this better.
I can. :cool:
Yes, but imagination and reality are often with odds at each other. I'd love to hear what MMO developer (or new startup company with no MMO development experience you believe could do a Star Trek MMO that hou feel would be a better 'Star Trek experienc' and still profitable for said company.
It's easy to imagine and a lot harder to actually realize.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Yes, but imagination and reality are often with odds at each other. I'd love to hear what MMO developer (or new startup company with no MMO development experience you believe could do a Star Trek MMO that hou feel would be a better 'Star Trek experienc' and still profitable for said company.
It's easy to imagine and a lot harder to actually realize.
but would it not be better to let them redo it as they now know the mistakes that were made and could now do it right this time??? I mean unless your blizzard let them (cryptic) try it again
But with a completely different developer who will give it more than just 18 months to the development of a game for the biggest science fiction IP in history (don't start, Star Wars fans. SW is not sci-fi, it's space fantasy), then release it with minimal content and a sea of bugs so vast you could float Jupiter in it.
With a completely different developer that will use or create an engine that makes sense for the game they're working on instead of just grabbing an engine that's totally inadequate but using it anyway because it was cheaper and faster than creating a new one that'd be suited to its purpose.
With a completely different developer who Gets It, instead of having an Executive Producer who blamed the games many, many faults on the customers and saying that we, the paying customers, "don't get it." (Yeah, he did, for those who weren't around at the time.)
Cryptic's had its shot. They've had 3 years of having a shot and getting things together - and yet bugs from beta STILL exist. From the game itself (starting in beta and since), I don't see any evidence that they were up to the challenge of creating a game that does justice to the IP, or of fixing/improving the mess of a game they handed us.
So yes. A completely new Star Trek MMO, please - from a different developer and certainly a different publisher. PLEASE.
But with a completely different developer who will give it more than just 18 months to the development of a game for the biggest science fiction IP in history (don't start, Star Wars fans. SW is not sci-fi, it's space fantasy), then release it with minimal content and a sea of bugs so vast you could float Jupiter in it.
With a completely different developer that will use or create an engine that makes sense for the game they're working on instead of just grabbing an engine that's totally inadequate but using it anyway because it was cheaper and faster than creating a new one that'd be suited to its purpose.
With a completely different developer who Gets It, instead of having an Executive Producer who blamed the games many, many faults on the customers and saying that we, the paying customers, "don't get it." (Yeah, he did, for those who weren't around at the time.)
Cryptic's had its shot. They've had 3 years of having a shot and getting things together - and yet bugs from beta STILL exist. From the game itself (starting in beta and since), I don't see any evidence that they were up to the challenge of creating a game that does justice to the IP, or of fixing/improving the mess of a game they handed us.
So yes. A completely new Star Trek MMO, please - from a different developer and certainly a different publisher. PLEASE.
This is the problem with Cryptic having a monopoly on one of the biggest Sci-Fi revenue streams: Star Trek fans.
If they had to compete to with another Star Trek MMO which focused on content more than shinnies they would very quickly lose the majority of their customers. Trek fans want the trek experience.
Let me put it this way if STO offers me a ship for $50, and another ST:MMO offered me a 20 quest chain with puzzles, voice dialogue, multiplayer teaming, in depth story and true exploration zone for $50 I know which I would pick. To put that into context DDO as I have said before has packs like Gianthold which are about $15 dollars.
As cryptic are about to find out with NW, competing with a product like DDO which has heaps of content and is very mature will be very difficult and from what I've played of NW Beta, the future looks pretty dim for this offering. I don't think it will flop but I very much doubt it will prize anyone away from DDO, WoW or LOTRO.
To be honost I hope they keep inproving old missions, finish story arcs without leaving us in the dark, Repair bugs, inprove gameplay. and Less grinding. More VO.
This MMORPG would do fine to say the least.
I'm happy with STO, allright I had days just like more players with what the heck is Cryptic thinking...
How could they do this or why like this and not the other way around.
We all have those days, but STO is fine w\the way it's going there is no need for STO 2.
They could make STBCO ( Star Trek Bridge Comander Online )
Then people will do missions from the inside off the ship like Elite force roam around the ship ect ect.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
We all know of the bug problems this game has as well as the limitations that the devs have run into as far as the engine goes etc etc. I mean for those that follow guild wars it was a game that had a huge following and while ok it had flaws so they decided scrap it take what worked used better systems and of course they had more time as this was the sequel rolled it all up into a big ball added some pepper and wala Guild Wars 2 whichas I said the original game was good or ok but the second iteration was and is vastly superior so I ask would you support and is it time for Star Trek Online 2???
No not now, but I would definitely support them taking some time after they launch this new season to go back and polish some of the elements of this game that have been broken or twitchy for a very very long time now.
I would fully support them stabilizing the game code so that we have:
1: faster load screens on everything
2: more stable ui (no more loss of buttons on bars when switching ships, or the bug where every update causes my keybinds to suddenly require shift, give a single interface for the "warp to sector" option)
3: ship flight enhancements (remove the ability of warping in ships to knock you over, remove the bug where we warp thru planets when leaving a map)
4: complete redo of the ship interior to actually match the real layouts of the ships (including a cargo bay [complete bank access, lab crafting zone] shuttle bay for switching ships)
5: iso chip data rod replicator recipes (available via reputation or fleet advancement)
6: fleet/reputation items ALL being made bind on account universally.
No not now, but I would definitely support them taking some time after they launch this new season to go back and polish some of the elements of this game that have been broken or twitchy for a very very long time now.
I would fully support them stabilizing the game code so that we have:
1: faster load screens on everything
2: more stable ui (no more loss of buttons on bars when switching ships, or the bug where every update causes my keybinds to suddenly require shift, give a single interface for the "warp to sector" option)
3: ship flight enhancements (remove the ability of warping in ships to knock you over, remove the bug where we warp thru planets when leaving a map)
4: complete redo of the ship interior to actually match the real layouts of the ships (including a cargo bay [complete bank access, lab crafting zone] shuttle bay for switching ships)
5: iso chip data rod replicator recipes (available via reputation or fleet advancement)
6: fleet/reputation items ALL being made bind on account universally.
Totaly Agree sir !!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
As cryptic are about to find out with NW, competing with a product like DDO which has heaps of content and is very mature will be very difficult and from what I've played of NW Beta, the future looks pretty dim for this offering. I don't think it will flop but I very much doubt it will prize anyone away from DDO, WoW or LOTRO.
There's not many people to prize away from DDO. It doesn't even show up in Steam's concurrency stats, where STO stands pretty high, because it's outside the top 100. And before you say people don't use Steam for DDO; they do for LotRO, which does place in the stats; well below STO.
As for NW, it's too early to say how it will end up, but in current voting on Massively it beats DDO 2:1.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
There's not many people to prize away from DDO. It doesn't even show up in Steam's concurrency stats, where STO stands pretty high, because it's outside the top 100. And before you say people don't use Steam for DDO; they do for LotRO, which does place in the stats; well below STO.
As for NW, it's too early to say how it will end up, but in current voting on Massively it beats DDO 2:1.
Steam is a terribly flawed measurement, using it doesn't substantiate anything, by Cryptics own estimations there are over 1 Million "captains" by Turbines, DDO has over 2 Million accounts. Also it's a flawed assumption to assume that because LOTRO places on steam that DDO doesn't have players, the reality is DDO came out before Steam became the kind massive aggregator of games it is today, when DDO was released it wasn't on Steam afaik, whereas when LOTRO was released it was also advertised on steam. Indeed DDO was only made available on Steam in July of 2012. This is exactly why using steam is an unreliable measurement, especially if you don't do your research.
Going by their estimates DDO is by far the superior, I don't believe either number, I would assume that for both it is actually less comparatively. I think you do a disservice to DDO, afterall it's the game that showed F2P was possible. It also shared a lot of the problems STO did when it first started up including being stiffed by Atari. Turbine however offered it more backing and the engine it uses was versatile enough to allow the incorporation with very varied game play, so it's done better than STO in terms of development once it went F2P.
Voting on massively is meaningless, as it's a new game and the way massively sorts votes means that it's a failed measurement. It is by far better to look at MMORPG.com's system which is more normalized. They have a differentiation between "hype votes" and long standing games. DDO is also in the middle of launching a native MAC client, there is demand for it and a guaranteed ROI on developing a native client for Apple/BSD, can you say the same for STO?
In addition Time Warner acquired Turbine in 2010 and it's been performing excellently, DDO itself has major updates every 3 months and released it's first major paid for standalone last year. It's 7 years old and has better mechanics and is closer to D&D than Neverwinter.
As someone whose played both games and talking to people who have played both games, I don't think WoW, DDO or LOTRO have anything to fear from Cryptics offering into the market place. Mainly because it's a light weight game with a light weight engine, it simply doesn't offer the scope or developer backing that Blizzard can to WoW or the Time Warner backed Turbine can to DDO / LOTRO.
As I said I don't think it will flop but I can't see it stealing players away from better, bigger MMO's out there but it may well attract those that want a simple hack'n'slash fantasy game.
There's not many people to prize away from DDO. It doesn't even show up in Steam's concurrency stats, where STO stands pretty high, because it's outside the top 100. And before you say people don't use Steam for DDO; they do for LotRO, which does place in the stats; well below STO.
As for NW, it's too early to say how it will end up, but in current voting on Massively it beats DDO 2:1.
DDO is going to be a faint memory in 3 years. That things fate was sealed when it was made.
As for NW... I can see it going one of two ways. Either it crashes out the gate, or it's better than people are suggesting and it slowly gains players over time. Either way, launch is not going to be pretty.
DDO is going to be a faint memory in 3 years. That things fate was sealed when it was made.
As for NW... I can see it going one of two ways. Either it crashes out the gate, or it's better than people are suggesting and it slowly gains players over time. Either way, launch is not going to be pretty.
That's what they said 7 years ago
Either way though the Engine is as dated as Cryptics engine so sooner or later DDO will need an engine overhaul, which likely means DDO:2. Either that or they fold it up, but it's still a big money spinner for Turbine and WB.
Lol the crazy thing is Turbine are still producing updates for their 1999 MMORPG Asherons call and after 13 years are looking to make Asherons Call 2, which is currently in Beta.
So if they treat DDO (a more successful game than AC) with the same care, I doubt very much it'll be a faint memory
But this is an STO forum and almost feel like I'm becoming a Turbine shill... so I'm going to stop the comparisons, it's also a tad unfair Cryptic aren't in the same league in terms of size.
With regards to NW, I honestly think it's very different game to RPGMMO's it's more of an Action MMO, and Cryptic have said as much. It feels like a console game, something along the lines of Gears of War but with swords. It's simple, linear and advancement in the beta is very much a rail road. It won't attract WoW or DDO players but it will attract anyone who wants a nice hack'n'slash in the Forgotten Realms setting. Reminds me of Atari's Daggerdale in a way.
Like I said I don't think it'll flop but I can't see it ever being any more of a success than Champions or STO.
to buy lockbox keys in the hopes of getting ships that really do not add to the gameplay beyond aesthetic value
What lockbox ship only adds aesthetics? All the lockbox ships I know of have more consoles, and better layout and better stats than any other ship in their class in the entire game.
Comments
Indeed the allure of a Star Trek Video game did not for me at least anyways convert into a game worth playing, well not in it's current state at least.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
First off I do not want to start over indeed, second why STO 2 what would that accomplish, exactly nothing would it accomplish only that you have to start over again .
But if they want to start over with the same rights they now have, what do you want them to set up ?
Personal I would advice something like Bridge commander a bit more easy, less bugs.
Also with the freedom to roam around your own ship I would sign for that.
OK you are right it should be much more advanced then BC off course and with the ability to beam down yourself but also the ability to stay on board and let your first handle the away mission.
And if they build that next to the Original STO, I certainly would like to pay for an LTS or an Subscription fee or like all other things F2P ...
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
But you will. That's inevitable.
It would end the Dilithium grind and start you off on a new mission. A mission where you seek out new life and new civilizations. Where you boldly go where no game has gone before!
Them? Have you not read what I posted? Cryptic can't make a sequel to this game. They are too small a company. Neverwinter Online has been pushed back and pushed back and pushed back because they have trouble making a D&D "OMG" as Jack Emmert calls it. This company can't get the staff or resources together to make a sequel.
But another company could. And that would include a different licensing agreement. And a whole different feel to it. A new, fresh take, on Trek as an MMO.
So they sell the rights to Electronic Arts , Well the game would be great maybe but at what cost....
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
I don't think another company would "do it better."
They'd do it differently. This would have things that are better. Things that are worse. They'd not have some of the annoying bugs this game has. They'd have brand new annoying bugs.
But another company would have a few things that Cryptic doesn't, and those are things I value.
1- Better QA. Cryptic is terrible at quality assurance. They have told us that they can't take a patch backwards. That once it is on Tribble it's going to Holodeck no matter how many bugs are found. Other companies actually use their test server in a way that allows them to stop them from sending bugs live. A QA process that allows them to "stop the presses" as it were and make sure bad things don't go live.
2- A better take on the IP. Cryptic started off with an interesting idea. The Undine infiltration causing a war between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire. But three years into this, it's all out of whack. There's no sign of the Undine since they released a half done Pelia sector. The KDF and Federation are working together on most things. And people are flying ships that belong to the Tholians, the 29th Century, and the Dominion. It's gone astray. A new company would have a chance to get back to something that made sense.
3- Follow through. A new company might not be as bold as Cryptic. I'll give them that, they kept trying crazy things, like Diplomacy, and First Person Shooter mode, and we're about to do Crafting version 4.0 or whatever. But Cryptic has a problem with follow through. They leave everything half done and incomplete. Diplomacy was never finished. DOFFs aren't finished. First Person Shooter Mode, Exploration, Reputation, Starbases, it's all got characteristics that are unfinished. A new company would probably not try to do so many bold and large systems based changes. So we'd miss out on some of that excitement. But in the end, it would make for better gameplay because what does get done, would get done complete.
Yeah, there'd be a whole new set of issues, problems, bugs and things to complain about with a new company doing a Trek MMO.
But the value I place on QA, the IP's integrity, and finished systems are such that I would welcome a new, fresh take on Trek.
And as we're seeing with Neverwinter Online, Cryptic just doesn't have the horses to run this race again. STO is in maintenance mode and has been for two years. Potential? This game doesn't have the staff to realize its potential. It's like trying to talk about the ceiling of a 27 year old NBA guard. He's already reached his ceiling. And while you know exactly what you have with that player, you also know that the 19 year old raw unpolished kid in the draft already can do more than what you have. You then need to think about change. That is if you're committed to winning the championship. Some teams are committed to ticket sales/profits and mediocrity. Like the Atlanta Hawks for the past 12 years. Cryptic tries to be the Oklahoma City Thunder, but ends up being the Atlanta Hawks.
/sigh. No one said anything about EA.
EA makes FIFA, Madden and Hockey games that are amazing. That's about it.
I know but they know how to make a game work .... take STWOR for all 50 levels i was in the front off my chair never had a dull moment, it was completely VO, good textures and it all make sense, it was 100% star wars !!!
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Star Trek Online, the Cryptic edition, is a relatively good game, and being a lifer in a couple of others (not here, i didn't trust them after seeing CO), i find myself returning to this game, and playing it, enjoying it the most.
I honestly think there is potential for more, and if the RL situation (as new JJ films or a series in the next 1-3 years) will be good, it could come out blooming once more.
Long Live STO (fix the bugs already)
SWTOR - i'Ve made the first 18 lvls, got bored. anyone wants my account? i've paid a bit there too
Hmm, you did read my previous did you not? To sum it up, the majority of the largest, most well funded and long lasting games producers have ALL produced games that had such disgustingly poor QA work done on them, that games were released with bugs that in some cases literally killed peoples consoles.
You assertion that another company could do better than Cryptic is farsical at best. How many patches have Cryptic released that killed peoples computers? As for Cryptic allowing broken code to "go live" I'll refer you back to my previous post again where I raised the well documented "corrupted blood" bug and the bug that allowed level one players to insta-kill anyone they met, including max level players. Do you see where this is going?
On to your next point, that of a "better take on the IP". It may have escaped your attention, but neither Cryptic nor PWE own the Trek IP; that belongs to CBS, and it is they who have the final say on what gets put in this game. If they nix it, then it doesn't happen. If this causes you concern, perhaps instead of screaming at Cryptic about it, you write CBS a nice letter instead.
And finally, the issue of follow through. Here would be the only point on which we agree, and then only up to a certain point. You should try to remember that for a whole year, during Cryptics sale, there was no funding and very few staff. That of course led to the apparently infamous "no cups in the kitchen" situation.Recovering from such a devastating blow would take any company a long time to recover from, then throw in the fact that the new bosses (PWE) had different plans for STO compared to the old bosses and you have a recipe for killing a game dead inside of a few months.
I won't say STO is perfect, I've been gaming for far too long to get dewy eyed and "fanboyish" over this sort of thing, but when you stop for more than three seconds and actually think about the logistics of STO's birth and early childhood, the fact its still here is nothing short of a miracle. Give Cryptic a few more years, let them off the leash and they may just surprise you.
Or you can throw in the towel and cry, scream that it isn't what you want and demand that mummy and daddy CBS dump 3 years of hardwork in the toilet and risk it all again for no reason other than that a few people want "more more more, now now now".
I know which side of the fence I'll be standing on. Do you?
Sig by my better half.
Oh dear. I just read this comment and realised you are a troll. :mad:
Sig by my better half.
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, but imagination and reality are often with odds at each other. I'd love to hear what MMO developer (or new startup company with no MMO development experience you believe could do a Star Trek MMO that hou feel would be a better 'Star Trek experienc' and still profitable for said company.
It's easy to imagine and a lot harder to actually realize.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
but would it not be better to let them redo it as they now know the mistakes that were made and could now do it right this time??? I mean unless your blizzard let them (cryptic) try it again
But with a completely different developer who will give it more than just 18 months to the development of a game for the biggest science fiction IP in history (don't start, Star Wars fans. SW is not sci-fi, it's space fantasy), then release it with minimal content and a sea of bugs so vast you could float Jupiter in it.
With a completely different developer that will use or create an engine that makes sense for the game they're working on instead of just grabbing an engine that's totally inadequate but using it anyway because it was cheaper and faster than creating a new one that'd be suited to its purpose.
With a completely different developer who Gets It, instead of having an Executive Producer who blamed the games many, many faults on the customers and saying that we, the paying customers, "don't get it." (Yeah, he did, for those who weren't around at the time.)
Cryptic's had its shot. They've had 3 years of having a shot and getting things together - and yet bugs from beta STILL exist. From the game itself (starting in beta and since), I don't see any evidence that they were up to the challenge of creating a game that does justice to the IP, or of fixing/improving the mess of a game they handed us.
So yes. A completely new Star Trek MMO, please - from a different developer and certainly a different publisher. PLEASE.
It's the people who asked for it ... NOT
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
This is the problem with Cryptic having a monopoly on one of the biggest Sci-Fi revenue streams: Star Trek fans.
If they had to compete to with another Star Trek MMO which focused on content more than shinnies they would very quickly lose the majority of their customers. Trek fans want the trek experience.
Let me put it this way if STO offers me a ship for $50, and another ST:MMO offered me a 20 quest chain with puzzles, voice dialogue, multiplayer teaming, in depth story and true exploration zone for $50 I know which I would pick. To put that into context DDO as I have said before has packs like Gianthold which are about $15 dollars.
As cryptic are about to find out with NW, competing with a product like DDO which has heaps of content and is very mature will be very difficult and from what I've played of NW Beta, the future looks pretty dim for this offering. I don't think it will flop but I very much doubt it will prize anyone away from DDO, WoW or LOTRO.
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This MMORPG would do fine to say the least.
I'm happy with STO, allright I had days just like more players with what the heck is Cryptic thinking...
How could they do this or why like this and not the other way around.
We all have those days, but STO is fine w\the way it's going there is no need for STO 2.
They could make STBCO ( Star Trek Bridge Comander Online )
Then people will do missions from the inside off the ship like Elite force roam around the ship ect ect.
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
No not now, but I would definitely support them taking some time after they launch this new season to go back and polish some of the elements of this game that have been broken or twitchy for a very very long time now.
I would fully support them stabilizing the game code so that we have:
1: faster load screens on everything
2: more stable ui (no more loss of buttons on bars when switching ships, or the bug where every update causes my keybinds to suddenly require shift, give a single interface for the "warp to sector" option)
3: ship flight enhancements (remove the ability of warping in ships to knock you over, remove the bug where we warp thru planets when leaving a map)
4: complete redo of the ship interior to actually match the real layouts of the ships (including a cargo bay [complete bank access, lab crafting zone] shuttle bay for switching ships)
5: iso chip data rod replicator recipes (available via reputation or fleet advancement)
6: fleet/reputation items ALL being made bind on account universally.
Totaly Agree sir !!!
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
There's not many people to prize away from DDO. It doesn't even show up in Steam's concurrency stats, where STO stands pretty high, because it's outside the top 100. And before you say people don't use Steam for DDO; they do for LotRO, which does place in the stats; well below STO.
As for NW, it's too early to say how it will end up, but in current voting on Massively it beats DDO 2:1.
Steam is a terribly flawed measurement, using it doesn't substantiate anything, by Cryptics own estimations there are over 1 Million "captains" by Turbines, DDO has over 2 Million accounts. Also it's a flawed assumption to assume that because LOTRO places on steam that DDO doesn't have players, the reality is DDO came out before Steam became the kind massive aggregator of games it is today, when DDO was released it wasn't on Steam afaik, whereas when LOTRO was released it was also advertised on steam. Indeed DDO was only made available on Steam in July of 2012. This is exactly why using steam is an unreliable measurement, especially if you don't do your research.
Going by their estimates DDO is by far the superior, I don't believe either number, I would assume that for both it is actually less comparatively. I think you do a disservice to DDO, afterall it's the game that showed F2P was possible. It also shared a lot of the problems STO did when it first started up including being stiffed by Atari. Turbine however offered it more backing and the engine it uses was versatile enough to allow the incorporation with very varied game play, so it's done better than STO in terms of development once it went F2P.
Voting on massively is meaningless, as it's a new game and the way massively sorts votes means that it's a failed measurement. It is by far better to look at MMORPG.com's system which is more normalized. They have a differentiation between "hype votes" and long standing games. DDO is also in the middle of launching a native MAC client, there is demand for it and a guaranteed ROI on developing a native client for Apple/BSD, can you say the same for STO?
In addition Time Warner acquired Turbine in 2010 and it's been performing excellently, DDO itself has major updates every 3 months and released it's first major paid for standalone last year. It's 7 years old and has better mechanics and is closer to D&D than Neverwinter.
As someone whose played both games and talking to people who have played both games, I don't think WoW, DDO or LOTRO have anything to fear from Cryptics offering into the market place. Mainly because it's a light weight game with a light weight engine, it simply doesn't offer the scope or developer backing that Blizzard can to WoW or the Time Warner backed Turbine can to DDO / LOTRO.
As I said I don't think it will flop but I can't see it stealing players away from better, bigger MMO's out there but it may well attract those that want a simple hack'n'slash fantasy game.
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Parallels: my second mission for Fed aligned Romulans.
DDO is going to be a faint memory in 3 years. That things fate was sealed when it was made.
As for NW... I can see it going one of two ways. Either it crashes out the gate, or it's better than people are suggesting and it slowly gains players over time. Either way, launch is not going to be pretty.
That's what they said 7 years ago
Either way though the Engine is as dated as Cryptics engine so sooner or later DDO will need an engine overhaul, which likely means DDO:2. Either that or they fold it up, but it's still a big money spinner for Turbine and WB.
Lol the crazy thing is Turbine are still producing updates for their 1999 MMORPG Asherons call and after 13 years are looking to make Asherons Call 2, which is currently in Beta.
So if they treat DDO (a more successful game than AC) with the same care, I doubt very much it'll be a faint memory
But this is an STO forum and almost feel like I'm becoming a Turbine shill... so I'm going to stop the comparisons, it's also a tad unfair Cryptic aren't in the same league in terms of size.
With regards to NW, I honestly think it's very different game to RPGMMO's it's more of an Action MMO, and Cryptic have said as much. It feels like a console game, something along the lines of Gears of War but with swords. It's simple, linear and advancement in the beta is very much a rail road. It won't attract WoW or DDO players but it will attract anyone who wants a nice hack'n'slash in the Forgotten Realms setting. Reminds me of Atari's Daggerdale in a way.
Like I said I don't think it'll flop but I can't see it ever being any more of a success than Champions or STO.
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What lockbox ship only adds aesthetics? All the lockbox ships I know of have more consoles, and better layout and better stats than any other ship in their class in the entire game.