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In Regards to STO and Canon
hereticknight085
Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
I recently put up a post in another thread (forget which one already... too bloody many here XD) which was commenting on a ship in this game compared to it's counterpart in canon Star Trek. And I have come to realize (a long time ago) that people often do this. At first I did to. But I now have something to say, which will no doubt bring in lots of flak and hate posts. But I think it's something that needs to be said.
Star Trek Online is NOT Canon. It is a game. It uses ships and people from Canon yes. But it as an entity is not. Therefore, any rules, abilities, restrictions, etc. from Canon Star Trek DO NOT APPLY.
Last I checked, Canon was all movies of Star Trek. Those are hard canon sources. There are also a number of soft canon sources, mostly in the form of books, tech manuals, graphic novels, etc. But games were not, aren not, and I don't think ever will be in this case, Canon. And as such, you cannot hold them to the same standards. They can and should be kept separate.
Now I know this argument probably falls on deaf ears, but hear me out nonetheless. There are things in canon that people expect to see in game. And they are more often than not disappointed. The reason is that in Canon, the heroes always win. The singular ships that are the icons of whatever particular series you happen to be watching, always win. If this game were canon, the Constitutions would be indestructible until they were blown up by their captains, the Galaxies would be able to destroy entire planets and would never die (they at least have that part down), and the Intrepids and Defiants would be unbeatable, regardless of enemy type, numbers, EVERYTHING.
That is why Canon cannot be applied here. The rules from the shows and books and movies are different. If they were applied in game, there would be no game. Just a bunch of those 4 ships running around saving the galaxy.
So please. Stop trying to apply canon to this game. It won't work, and shouldn't work. They are and should remain separate.
Star Trek Online is NOT Canon. It is a game. It uses ships and people from Canon yes. But it as an entity is not. Therefore, any rules, abilities, restrictions, etc. from Canon Star Trek DO NOT APPLY.
Last I checked, Canon was all movies of Star Trek. Those are hard canon sources. There are also a number of soft canon sources, mostly in the form of books, tech manuals, graphic novels, etc. But games were not, aren not, and I don't think ever will be in this case, Canon. And as such, you cannot hold them to the same standards. They can and should be kept separate.
Now I know this argument probably falls on deaf ears, but hear me out nonetheless. There are things in canon that people expect to see in game. And they are more often than not disappointed. The reason is that in Canon, the heroes always win. The singular ships that are the icons of whatever particular series you happen to be watching, always win. If this game were canon, the Constitutions would be indestructible until they were blown up by their captains, the Galaxies would be able to destroy entire planets and would never die (they at least have that part down), and the Intrepids and Defiants would be unbeatable, regardless of enemy type, numbers, EVERYTHING.
That is why Canon cannot be applied here. The rules from the shows and books and movies are different. If they were applied in game, there would be no game. Just a bunch of those 4 ships running around saving the galaxy.
So please. Stop trying to apply canon to this game. It won't work, and shouldn't work. They are and should remain separate.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once. 
Post edited by hereticknight085 on
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YOU are not one of those great captains so you can die without much trouble. To make your argument more powerful, I liken STO to JJ Abrams new Star Trek. The names are there... the end.
Eisaak
Except Kirk was a terrible captain. He constantly and consistently put his crew and his ship in unnecessary and often foolhardy situations. He went through red-shirts like beamboats go through weapons power. He got his ship almost destroyed on an almost ridiculous number of occasions, and actually ended up destroying it himself after a certain point (Irony: ship gets hammered by enemies almost to death, takes on enemies with technology almost insanely superior and survives, and then is destroyed when captain hits the self destruct button). He was promoted to admiral twice, and demoted back to captain twice, and then died a rather inglorious, if not touching death in Star Trek: Generations.
How does that say great captain at all?
I could go on to insult the other Star Trek captains, but basically, without creative story writing and plot, all the great captains would probably have died a number of times over. Except maybe Sisko. He seemed to be quite sensible. Mostly. Until he pulled a "Charge of the Light Brigade" against that dominion fleet in "Sacrifice of Angels". -.-
Thank you for the correction, will edit appropriately.
If they don't apply canon to the game where it makes sense, then it's no longer a Star Trek game, and shouldn't be using the name in the title. When talking about balance, then yes canon must take a back seat as much as possible.
But there's a whole lot more to a MMO then balance, and it's all those other systems and fluff that must follow canon.
Bear in mind that The Original Series was a disaster for story contiguaty.. even that in its self was a new concept for anything other then Soap Opera's (daytime TV) in the 60's. By the Next Generation this concept had been introduced into the consumer mindset, and more importantly, in Burbank California.. "Enterprise" and the movie first contact retconned most all of what was belived to have been the early history of the Federation.
Also bear in mind that Kirks exploits in the Original series just don't make a great deal of sense hear and now. Don't worry about it! Enjoy the show, and the shows and movies that followed.
Because STO content does require vetting and approval by CBS, the history of the trek universe in STO will likely become hard cannon... even if our charcters never even get mentioned.. (yea, I dream about it to.. who could get to play MY charcater!)
Good for a decent what if session..
The main issue would be what would be hard canon and soft canon.
Hard Canon would be movies (in case of Star Trek) and TV series
Soft Canon would be comics and books WHICH are canon.
I do like this entry in Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_%28fiction%29
Now of course fan fiction is not canon.
The question would be would previous game of Star Trek (prior to STO) would that be consider Canon?
using another fictional world, Tolkien's book would be HARD canon while the movies would be soft canon. It all depend on how it originate.
that is how I see what is consider Canon or not Canon.
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
technically, it's the Enterprise that makes the Enterprise unbeatable, by the sheer virtue of being the Enterprise...of course, that's a double-edged sword, because the Enterprise also tends to attract the biggest troubles and the weirdest problems
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Very sorry it was suppose to be written "great" captain.
Eisaak
I've been saying that for ages (usually in T5 Connie threads). The Path to 2409 and the book Needs of the Many tried to establish this in howt hey detailed the work O'Brien and LaForge did on ship design in the 25th century.
All of these old ships we see? They're 25th Century ships. With the look of older ships on the outside.
They put the RETRO in Retrofit.
The door's always been wide open for this game to make ships that do not adhere to any of the rules of Star Trek's shows. The players for the most part tried to assume the ships did. And it's been three years of forum debate ever since.
But the game and its own documentation established that this wasn't the case. Way back in the beginning.
that's not trek :rolleyes:
DELTA PRICE RISING
let's see...has trek in the title, was declared canon by paramount, and probably CBS as well, and spock was in it
yep, it's trek
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I enjoy the JJ movies but i still don't think is is trek. I mean this at its core. Yes it has the title and all that and i'm not crapping on the movie but for some reason at the end of the day it just isn't trek to me.
And of course this can't be argued, it is just an opinion.
I'll agree, it doesn't feel like Star Trek, but then there were a lot of episodes in all of the series that also had me scratching my head and asking, "This is Star Trek?"
You just hit the nail on the head.
"Canon" is, really, a modern invention - most of what we consider the "classics" could be considered fanfic in one way or another. All of those "versions" of the different legends that most of our mythologies are based on? What we'd call fanfic.
Ultimately in a lot of ways, a mythos is what you make of it, and everyone's personal view is going to be different on it. I'm pretty sure there are VERY few people who have seen all of Star Trek and don't deliberately mentally omit a few details they don't particularly care for. Even the writers do that (warp 10 episode, Star Trek V, anybody?).
While I may well be one of those nerds you refer to, I think you're tapping into a subtle insight that is too often lost in debates such as these.
just because it has the title doesn't mean a thing. See Tiberium Twilight.
JJ Wreck was an attempt at money milking by Paramount.
money wasn't outlawed, it was obsolete in the federation
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That was my point. Star Trek Online is not Canon Star Trek. And yet I see arguments of Canon everywhere when people are trying to make their points in this game, whether or not it be for buffs, ships, you name it. And I have said time and time again, that this game is not Canon. That's basically it.
On a side note, I am honestly surprised this thread hasn't turned into a flame fest/trash the OP. I was expecting a few good responses followed by a massive "KILL HIM NAO!!!!!" rage posting. So far how this thread is going is a surprise, but a pleasant one.
or maybe it just doesn't exist in the federation because it isn't a driving force in human development anymore; picard said as much in First Contact to lily
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
how ever being a trek game it should hold the core of trek. yes game balancing is a major factor but so should cannon. finding the balance between the two is important.
at the most Trek has been confused on human currency. TOS had mention of pay on a couple of episodes. And not really mentioned but for twice in TNG (The return of the Rommies at the end of season 1 and First Contact) Wiht replicators money may not be as needed in the past but other races still do like latium and maybe fed gives that out for people to buy stuff for themselves or family. You do see a barter system as well.