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STF and back seat drivers.
ironmako
Member Posts: 770 Arc User
STF is possibly the most popular game in STO. We all love doing it for the obvious reasons, RP, Dil, etc. However recently, i have noticed an increasing number of "back seat drivers" who suddenly take the role of Team Commodore. I will be flying in doing my usual, when all of a sudden i am distracted by some pranny spouting who should be doing what on the chat. This distraction normally happens when i am attacking the borg. I take my eye off the ball (or sphere) for one second, and im badly damaged and fleeing.
To make my case in point, i always play elite on Khitomer Vortex and the Conduit, as they are relatively easy and straightforward. Lets look at "The Conduit".
The Conduit for me, and many other powerful players is thus:
1)Kill the cube
2)Kill the Spheres
3Kill the cube to the left of the gateway.
4)kill all the Gennies below said cube
5)kill the tranny (I mean transformer, not a gender crossing person)
6)Wash off the spheres and repeat proccess for the right side.
7)Kill Gateway
8) Kill Tac Cube.
Now i go by this formula, many players do, many in my fleet even. So why am i in the middle of doing this, when our back seat driver speaks up again "no, you should be attacking the right side" or "no leave it, remember the 10% rule..."
Even on the "Khitomer Vortex", i have seen ships flying from one gate to the other checking on progress of other players! I mean, i start raging very easily at this. Its not long before i start shouting STOP PEEING AROUND AND SHOOT SOMETHING!!!
In the real world, i own a business consultancy, so planning and optimising strategies is everyday for me, and i really feel insulted when some brat starts preaching at me for not doing what he ordered me to in STF!
If you really need a 10% rule in your STF, then you shouldn't be doing elite. If your ships are powerful enough, then you can easily take out a transformer well before the nano-spheres even get close. FACT. If your ship is incapable of doing this, then just stay away from Elite until you are powerful enough.
My advice for STO backstreet drivers? The other four players are more experienced than you. How do i know this? because they get on with it rather than spouting orders. So keep schtum and let everyone get on with their tasks!
P.S. To those who play "The Hive" Elite (space) and take a danube runabout as your ship of choice? No. Just no.
To make my case in point, i always play elite on Khitomer Vortex and the Conduit, as they are relatively easy and straightforward. Lets look at "The Conduit".
The Conduit for me, and many other powerful players is thus:
1)Kill the cube
2)Kill the Spheres
3Kill the cube to the left of the gateway.
4)kill all the Gennies below said cube
5)kill the tranny (I mean transformer, not a gender crossing person)
6)Wash off the spheres and repeat proccess for the right side.
7)Kill Gateway
8) Kill Tac Cube.
Now i go by this formula, many players do, many in my fleet even. So why am i in the middle of doing this, when our back seat driver speaks up again "no, you should be attacking the right side" or "no leave it, remember the 10% rule..."
Even on the "Khitomer Vortex", i have seen ships flying from one gate to the other checking on progress of other players! I mean, i start raging very easily at this. Its not long before i start shouting STOP PEEING AROUND AND SHOOT SOMETHING!!!
In the real world, i own a business consultancy, so planning and optimising strategies is everyday for me, and i really feel insulted when some brat starts preaching at me for not doing what he ordered me to in STF!
If you really need a 10% rule in your STF, then you shouldn't be doing elite. If your ships are powerful enough, then you can easily take out a transformer well before the nano-spheres even get close. FACT. If your ship is incapable of doing this, then just stay away from Elite until you are powerful enough.
My advice for STO backstreet drivers? The other four players are more experienced than you. How do i know this? because they get on with it rather than spouting orders. So keep schtum and let everyone get on with their tasks!
P.S. To those who play "The Hive" Elite (space) and take a danube runabout as your ship of choice? No. Just no.
Post edited by ironmako on
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Comments
Just because you feel elite enough to not need it doesn't mean the rest of the team is up to it. There could be a few newbies in there that don't have the DPS to blow all the generators before a Nanite Sphere spoils the optional -- it happens.
Instead of raging at people trying to do the 10%, why aren't you being the team player and abiding by an accepted rule?
Also your RL job doesn't matter in video games. At all. Yay for you, I guess, but really, nobody cares.
Or at least communicating that you're not going to adhere to what is effectively the SOP for the instance?
And it's been SOP for years. As far as the OPs view of dps too low to pop gens/former get out of Elite...wrong. Some who play ISEpugs built specifically for cc/ & speed bumping, for when a kirk or Picard wanna be starts popping things early
/cheers
I agree with some of your points (Runabouts showing up in non-shuttle missions, for example) but the 10% rule is just common courtesy.
And even when its applied, some noob will still accidently blow a generator early - because he started working on the gen while the rest of the team was working on the cube.
While you may not need to be told to not blow up a gen before the others are ready, some desperately need to be told, and you aren't the only player on the team.
It sounds like what you are really trying to say is you don't like team events. If that's the case, probably shouldn't queue up for PUG stfs.
However, I have come to the conclusion that Optionals really are there for Fleet or pre made groups so that they know exactly what they are doing beforehand and everyone has assigned roles.
My fleet also runs training days on STFs where the strategies are explained before hand and during.
My issue is more about those that sit at warp-in to an STF and don't contribute. Infected is particularly bad for this.
O sure there are time we send a reminder to kill the healers in the into the Hive mission.
Because the people with the most DPS take care off the behemofs and the lower DPS shoot down the healers ....
I don't see the trouble but if you have a normal comm channel with other partisipants in the event whats the trouble...
And if I read the OP text correct he is not realy a team player.
Greets
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Likewise you are also always going to get a griefer who will never speak or read anything you write and will go around and do whatever the hell he wants. At the end of the day, this is why they created Fleets.
Weak ships have plenty of other STF's to do without annoying elite players.
As for it being SOP, yes it is - again for the weaker player. Once a ship gets strong enough, then they should ditch the rule for an all out assault, tranny by tranny.
The point made about teamwork? Well, the team in the latest instance, the rest of the team backed me up wondering why some "noob" was talking about the 10% rule in the middle of an ELITE battle.
"Also your RL job doesn't matter in video games. At all. Yay for you, I guess, but really, nobody cares."
Nice one. I'll remember how i don't care what others are saying in-game then. I can also adapt a troll attitude as well.
As for me liking team events? i love team events, i just wish that others played like a team as well, and get the job done instead of fannying around.
My team model obviously differs from all of you guys so far. Maybe your all weaker players, maybe your not, i dont know, but here is one constant when it comes to a successful strong team:
The weakest members must strive to be just like the strongest, the strongest must not strive to be the weakest. Ruining your own awesome game style because some noob is far weaker or slower is just suicide.
A GOLDEN RULE when it comes to STF:
The team is as only as strong as the weakest link. So if some fool comes to an ELITE STF with a tier 3 ship, then he has knowingly weakened every other player. You lot may call that teamwork, i (and many others) call it acute stupidity.
EDIT:
"After recently grinding for Omega Marks for XII kits for Borg, MACO, and OMEGA sets (finally finished last night) I can understand what you are trying to say.
However, I have come to the conclusion that Optionals really are there for Fleet or pre made groups so that they know exactly what they are doing beforehand and everyone has assigned roles.
My fleet also runs training days on STFs where the strategies are explained before hand and during.
My issue is more about those that sit at warp-in to an STF and don't contribute. Infected is particularly bad for this. "
I am raging a little, but it drives me mad sometimes when players who are CLEARLY not suited for ELITE groups come to an elite game, then start trying to change everyones playing styles to their own nooby ways, just to ruin it for others, and the scary thing is, so many people seem to stick up for them judging by the comments here!
Thank god you sound sane dude!
I don't mean to sound harsh but if you PUG, you gamble; you win some you lose some.
I personally like to PUG, it makes things a bit more challenging if something goes wrong. And what's wrong with trying to be a part of a team? Some PUGs are completely silent.
Op is correct it's a no no for these guys sitting around doing nothing They think they can earn this way there share but when a team notice we break off atacks and leave or just fly off and wait for him to act and next day you find him wine on the forums ....
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Agreed but its the challenge to teach them if they like
"Coffee: the finest organic suspension ever devised. It's got me through the worst of the last three years. I beat the Borg with it."
Stop being so elitist. If you have a brain and can follow a strategy, you deserve to be in an Elite STF. If you go in guns blazing and blindly pewpewing everything in your path without a semblance of strategy, please stick to SB24/Gorn Minefield.
10% rule is simply a good, solid, foolproof way of doing the STF. It's a plan, and plans are good. While a lot of players are stupid-powerful now enough that the 10% rule sounds like it's something for the unwashed masses, many players aren't yet powerful enough, and even some who are would still like to stick to a plan.
Plans are good, and being able to bring firepower to bear when a plan goes wrong, is great.
7 & 8, to people with brains, are interchangable. Take out the biggest threat first, whether it's the cube popping player ships on a whim, or the gate just being a big juicy target while the cube doesn't move.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Not true. I've seen utter disasters result simply because people simply did not consider the capabilities of what team they had to work with. Not every team is going to be 5 Bugships. Some days you show up and you get a team of 5 Snoozers...and you're going to have to work with that. Assuming that you can simply treat the team like the crew of TacEscorts you had last round is going to result in failure. Understand what your team and cannot do. If you end up in a PUG of raw recruits...you have to work with that. Play it right, and if they're not total morons, you might even walk away with the optional. Insist that they all conform to YOUR standards, and you're going to fail.
This is, quite simply, untrue. If a team were literally only as strong as its weakest link, then a single AFKer would doom every mission to failure by being the weakest link. This, however, is not how it works.
An exaggeration, to be sure. Showing up in T3 doesn't magically cast a debuff upon everyone else on the team. You might even still be useful. Back in the final hours of S6, I took a Miranda into ISEs, simply because there wasn't the time to stop and spend 2 hours outfitting a ship. We still always won and got the optional, and once, according to the DPS logger, I even got third place for DPS. In a frikken Miranda. ESTF is just not that hard, man. Chill out.
On a side note I have noticed some groups (pug mostly) who dont care about optional now that the loot is omega marks. They just go in and get it done in what ever manner they care to do it.
You mean we should rule out team work?
I mean no offence but Elite missions are for anyone that can access them as long as they meet the minimum criteria to take part.
The idea of Elite players is laughable really, anyone who is that good can compensate for "weaker" ships quite easily.
Anyone can win in an over powered ship with maxed out consoles and weapons, so where is the "elite" in that? If a borg Tac cube takes out a standard T2 sabre then it's expected if the person in the sabre takes out the cube solo then that is worthy of respect in my mind.
Those are the "Kirk" moments that make stfs for me and prevent them from being a boring cookie cutter repeat and rinse exercise with people walking away patting themselves on the back for being so awesome.
I do agree it can be frustrating at times but that is the point, that is what turns a pointless point and click into a game that you talk about laughing with your friends, where you save the day at the last second repulsing a probe from the gate at the last moment or popping the transformer just as the first nanite sphere is about to be close to heal it.
I love those games, the mad scramble, they are so much fun and is the reason I purely pug stfs outside of helping people getting the optionals.
The solution to your problem is simple, don't pug. Join one of the many elite stf channels or channels like Multi-Fleet, run games with your fleeties, there are so many ways of achieving your goals.
Just don't pug if you want safe predictable games.
Granted I run Hyper-Plasma torps and when other people are being "helpful" they tend to ignore the little string of pearls. (Don't pew-pew my generator to 1% when I have 6 torpedoes making their way there. Yes, I'm impressed with your finesse, but there's a reason I stopped shooting at 20% - "Recall" doesn't work on torpedoes!)
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Seriously the 10% rule is annoying, usually end up having the spheres on top of the gate. Then I have to fly all the way over there to destroy them. :P
I don't do elites but quite frankly you have my vote simply for using the word 'pranny' which never fails to make me guffaw out loud.
Sure there are folks like myself who fit specifically to counter the people who go random gen popping and we're capable of stopping the spheres cold for a while but it usually means we're sacrificing ourselves to do it since pugs rarely heal you when you do it. It's also rude if you aren't at least going to let folks know that you're going to do it so they're prepared to deal with it.
Yes, we can hero save, yes there are teams with enough DPS that it literally doesn't matter. But not everyone hero saves and not everyone has a super DPS ship, there are actually younger/newer players out there who are still building their ship up and even older players who haven't mastered theirs yet. For their sake, and the rest of the team, I always try to adhere to the spirit of the 10% (and the mrrmll) SOP.
- Damn the torpedos! Full speed ahead!
When it comes round to helping other weaker players, i fully agree that helping them develop is a rewarding aspect, but to clear this up once and for all; if you are teaching a person to swim, adult or child, you put them in a shallow pool where their feet can touch the floor and there are no dangerous currents, you certainly don't throw them into shark infested waters at Cape Horn during a typhoon! The elite games are not for training wheels, sorry, but they just aren't.
EDIT: to the post above mine; I understand the environment fully. Just to inform you i run crusiers, and they are fully capable of quickly removing borg cubes, spheres, gens, trans and gateways very quickly. If yours doesn't have a high DPS, then thats not the ships fault but the pilots'. Be sure to check your own configuration if your having trouble with your cruisers.
See, I read this (especially in context of your other posts) as saying, "Teamwork exists, but if you want to be on my team, don't try to coordinate teamwork with me and let me do my own solo thing on my own."
That's not teamwork. That's the opposite of teamwork. That's five carpenters showing up and stealing each other's tools and ignoring each other all day and just hoping a house kinda happens on its own.
So, what's the cutoff point for entering Elite games? Cryptic has decided that it's simply being level 50.
What have you decided? What Mark of gear is acceptable? Are only Vice Admiral/Lieutenant General ships allowed? Or am I allowed, according to you, to fly a Rear Admiral/Brigadier General ship? What BOff abilities are acceptable to you? Does my ship need to be completely optimized and min-maxed?
Hypothetically, would my being in an ESTF in a Jem'hadar Attack Ship with full Elite Fleet gear invalidate your presence, since I'm going to be doing more damage than you?
Seriously, people have done ESTFs in Rear Admiral (and lower) ships using common quality white gear - that's right, it's possible to do ESTFs with everything that you have at level 40. ESTFs are easy, if you're willing to follow very simple strategies (10% rule, MRML (or MRRMLL, depending on how you're used to seeing it)). These strategies even (SURPRISE!) tend to make ESTFs more controllable and easier for people in high end gear. There is absolutely no call for this kind of rank elitism in this game (or, for the most part, any game).
I actively avoid games that have things like gear score requirements or minimum DPS requirements to join a group because I hate the elitist environment that it fosters - epeen waving does not help newer players understand tactics, it doesn't help them get geared up and knowledgeable about the encounters, and it doesn't foster a sense of community, which an MMO needs to survive.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
I also agree wholeheartedly with this post. What you've said, repeatedly, is that five people being in the same place and working toward the same general objective is the same as five people working together. Hint: it's not the same.
Joined January 2010.
In regard to hating Star Trek 2009:
That's not teamwork. That's optimal ship build. 10% rule IS a form of teamwork which you say is unnecessary. Also, let me get this straight. Your definition of teamwork is "If you're not good, get out and let me do my thing." Hmmm...:rolleyes: