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Upcoming scaling rewards in STFs
majortiraomega
Member Posts: 2,214 Arc User
In the latest STOKed Radio interview (link), dStahl was asked about a future vote to kick system in STFs. In response, he said that such a feature may be seen in the future, but they are currently planning to try scaling rewards based on player participation based on completing mission objectives. Both of these options have me concerned.
The mission objectives in the Space STFs is simply destroy X. Cruisers and science vessels are never going to get top rewards. If a cruiser or a science vessel lands in a match with four escorts, cruisers won't have much to heal and science vessels won't have much to crowd control. And there is no way for a science vessel or a crusier to compete with an escort in the DPS area of this game. After this change, bringing anything but an escort into a space STF could be a reward death sentence. Just look at Gorn Minefield, rewards are based on how much AoE damage done to the enemy gorn ships and how many freighters rescued. Escorts can deal the most damage and they have the highest impulse modifier, making it possible for them to fly around killing more mobs and freeing more freighters. The repair mining facility has minimal effect on the end outcome rewards.
On the topic of ground STFs. I have done hundreds of ground STFs and I have never seen someone AFK the match. It's fairly well known that PUG ground STFs have a high chance of failing if only four players show up. Take cure ground elite for instance. The transformer section is a major challenge if only four people show up. It's doable, but you need one player capable of soloing the rear transformer and another player capable of alpha striking the borg turrets. There is just no need for scaling rewards or vote to kick on ground because AFKing just isn't a problem. Infected ground elite just won't happen if someone AFKs the match. Khitomer Accord Ground elite can be done with just two people, but that requires some close coordination between the two players.
Rather than vote to kick or scaling rewards, would it be feasible to create a vote to end match feature? If players could leave a match without penalty (say an agreement of three or more), there would be a major detriment for AFKers. After a few times where players bail, that AFKing player is going to have a significant reason to actually participate in the match. Take a fleet mark action for instance. If someone is AFKing the team reports him and warps out/beams up. There is no penalty, so it's possible to leave the match and retry it with a full team actually willing to play the game.
The mission objectives in the Space STFs is simply destroy X. Cruisers and science vessels are never going to get top rewards. If a cruiser or a science vessel lands in a match with four escorts, cruisers won't have much to heal and science vessels won't have much to crowd control. And there is no way for a science vessel or a crusier to compete with an escort in the DPS area of this game. After this change, bringing anything but an escort into a space STF could be a reward death sentence. Just look at Gorn Minefield, rewards are based on how much AoE damage done to the enemy gorn ships and how many freighters rescued. Escorts can deal the most damage and they have the highest impulse modifier, making it possible for them to fly around killing more mobs and freeing more freighters. The repair mining facility has minimal effect on the end outcome rewards.
On the topic of ground STFs. I have done hundreds of ground STFs and I have never seen someone AFK the match. It's fairly well known that PUG ground STFs have a high chance of failing if only four players show up. Take cure ground elite for instance. The transformer section is a major challenge if only four people show up. It's doable, but you need one player capable of soloing the rear transformer and another player capable of alpha striking the borg turrets. There is just no need for scaling rewards or vote to kick on ground because AFKing just isn't a problem. Infected ground elite just won't happen if someone AFKs the match. Khitomer Accord Ground elite can be done with just two people, but that requires some close coordination between the two players.
Rather than vote to kick or scaling rewards, would it be feasible to create a vote to end match feature? If players could leave a match without penalty (say an agreement of three or more), there would be a major detriment for AFKers. After a few times where players bail, that AFKing player is going to have a significant reason to actually participate in the match. Take a fleet mark action for instance. If someone is AFKing the team reports him and warps out/beams up. There is no penalty, so it's possible to leave the match and retry it with a full team actually willing to play the game.
--->Ground PvP Concerns Directory 4.0
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
--->Ground Combat General Bugs Directory
Real join date: March 2012 / PvP Veteran since May 2012 (Ground and Space)
Post edited by majortiraomega on
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Take, for example, Infected Space. You might well have a system where the computer notes down if you land more than some minimal amount of damage on any one of the three starting ships; it then notes if you land more than a minimal amount of damage on the guardian cube, and then the generators. It then notes if you land more than a minimal amount of damage on the transformer after the generators are gone, and the same thing with the gate itself.
That way, you could have at least some reasonable appreciation that the player was present and participating all the way through the match, but it wouldn't be DPS-focused.
As far as the vote thing, I believe this has been covered to some degree elsewhere in other threads, but some people believe you will have abuse of it; i.e. three fleet mates bail 'cause they don't like the other two or whatever........so damned if you do, damned if you don't....
...course this is just my stupid opinion so whatever.....
I'm surprised that they don't just make it a binary decision - either you did enough to get full rewards, or you didn't. Of course, that is the approach Paragon took, so maybe Cryptic is too full of NIH.
That is an excellent idea. a Vote system that allows people to vote to end the match without penalty as long as no secondary objectives have been failed.
Players not voting within 1 minute of the vote being cast have their vote auto-cast to 'leave' and remain in the game map while the others leave.
voila. afk'rs get stuck in the map and the timer in a map they cant complete on their own while the others leave.
I'd hate to lose out on loot being the sci that spends more time delaying nanite spheres while the rest of the team blasts the transformer after some bonehead pops a generator early...
Or being on "guard kang" duty while the rest pop cubes, or far-side anti probe duty in a ship incapable of soloing cubes while doing said anti-probe...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
However I also don't expect them to share what they are thinking or asking for our input at any stage of the process. They'll just charge ahead with their idea, it will hit live, and then we'll have to complain bitterly for a month to get a developer to say "Well, maybe we overestimated a few things" and then make adjustments.
In other words: save your breath. The fight is still ahead.
I want cruisers and sci ships to score less...
NONONOONONON... Read the rest....
Right now, Scores in STO are based on how much damage you do, right? PvP, STF, Fleet Actions... Dosen't matter... Highest DPS = Winner right?
So... With the majority of Cruiser and Sci ships in the C-Store, do you think sales would go up or down if this is implemented? Right... Down, partially reducing income on 2/3's of their primary source of income.
Obviously this would present a massive problem for the bottom line.
That would in turn, effectively force them into re-doing / enhancing the score system.
I mean... to me, to you and to others it seems obvious that the current score system is basically flawed.
We need a system that takes a look at not only your DPS, but takes the total amout of DPS, Healing and damage taken, and calculates a number of points between the players based on each category, and then assigns a combined value to the player, that allows not only for more fair point assignment, but also encourages flying other classes than escort, regardless of your profession.
Here is what I think should be taken into account:
- DPS (duh) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:1
- Hull Healing (Self) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:1
- Hull Healing (Team) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:1.5
- Shield Healing/buff (Self) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:1
- Hull Healing/buff (Team) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:1.2
- Damage taken (self) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:1
- Damage done (team, for example blowing up) - Multiplier something along the lines of 1:-0.5 .
This would also encourage team-play, by allowing making any kind of healing attractive, while not just focuing on yourself but scoring more by healing team-mates, as well as open up the use for, I mean REAL use, for cruiser and Sci ships.
I hope you see, that I want to force them into making a better system, allowing for AFK'ers to be punished while ALL classes are useful, and get their piece of the cake.
Seriously, if you believe that you should GTFO. Regular STF are easy to the degree that level 40's can go in an finish it without too much problems.
STF Elite should be for experienced players who have had sufficient time to build.
Overall scaling only hurts the AFK players since everyone else should have no problems whatsoever.
Are you mentally deficient?
Scaling hurts EVERYONE that is not on a massive dps ship (aka escort). I fly a VoQuv tank. I threat control 9 + atk delta doff + threat increasing consoles. I keep aggro on myself and tank any and all damage on elite stfs and such. This allows my team to just sit in space and fire away with wild abandon.
But I do very little damage. 6 beams at min wep power.
If they put 'scaling' rewards that are based on DPS (and they will since its an easy copy/paste solution... its the same idiotic TRIBBLE they do in the minefield gear/dil pve queue) then I will never have a chance to get any rewards worth mentioning.
If I get 960 dil now for a win the scaling reward could reduce it to a mere 100...because i'd be doing that little damage compared to afkrs.
So no, sorry. Scaling rewards is the stupidest thing to do. Unfortunately, cryptic loves stupid, lives stupid and preaches stupid. they prove this almost every patch.
...and they cant make the bottom scale reward be anywhere near to half because afkrs will still be there. The only way to make afk'rs go away is to make the reward ZERO or kick them out of the map.
Judging from the rant i have to ask you that question. It's either that, or a lack of reading skills.
I've gone over the post and it is never mentioned that it is a scaling reward for DPS. To assume it is and ranting about how unfair scaling is, gives one reason to question the mental abilities of the person writing the rant.
What we DO know is that Afk-ers are a constant annoyance and scaling rewards will finally put an end to that.
B.t.w. tanking and doing massive damage are not mutually exclusive.
Well Dan likes his defiant, but can get on board the new smurf, which has been buffed three times already since it hit holodeck.
Just saying: don't fool yourselves, after 5 seasons of doing the exact opposite of tracking contributions sensibly, it ll be a tac fest like nothing else before it. Forget team play, forget synergy, escorts online FTW
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Edit: To maybe curb rage quieting? Have the reward tick down based on the number of players, and the prize being a pot divided between all victors.
I can do very well thank you very much, and I still worry about the system. I happen to want a game that's fun to play, and that kind mandates it not be a comedy of errors. Everyone having fun means there are more people to play with and people that do need help stick around long enough to learn.
Assuming you mean "high DPS" by "high performing" (which is what the game means anyway), then a "high performing" Cruiser is equivalent to a low performing Escort. This is easily seen in Starbase 24.
Look if you are in the 95%, its you not the ship, sorry. Good news is you can fix it, and then get rewarded for it.
Same thing happened with the STFs. We asked for a simple change to the reward system that removed the RNG. What happend? We got the reputation system.
I do not see this ending well, for anyone.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
I think mainly people will abuse the voting system.
Scaling reward does worries me since we don't have the numbers of what is the minimum. I mean it is possible that an ACTIVE player who may only heal, deal very little damage (if any) and just heal a bunch of people (it happens)
Please review my campaign and I'll return the favor.
True. But this is a Cryptic game. So, you know how it goes ...
To me, this scaling rewards idea seems to be the PERFECT thing for us to go and test on Tribble. This way at least if they muck it up early on, they can hopefully fix it earlier on and avoid the very real problems that will come from this.
The implications are this is that a well equipped VA can hit the threshold in about a minute but a new VA could still hit it.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
i can see people just kicking out any person that is not in a escort or a tac captain just to get the optional. stahl even brought up that the kick system could be abused so they do not want to implement it unless they have to
And their internal excuse will be what it's always probably been -- we've worked too hard on this we can't roll it back now .
Besides we have other things on the schedule ... .
I'm torn, on one hand yes it would be annoying to see the STF rewards being based on DPS instead of simple participation as it would take away from the team work aspect.
On the other hand I only fly warships in STFs and wouldn't mind seeing more people bringing their A game to the party. In addition if everyone is flying warships/escorts perhaps cryptic would re-think the balance aspect.
Yup, I think STFs using the same system as FAs would be a good idea. Then perhaps people will stop saying 'but my cruiser is a great tank and the game is balanced' and in addition Estfs will get done even faster on average.
I mean really when you think about it, there already is no good reason to bring anything but a warship (DPS Heavy) into an STF. This would just be a way of making it official.
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