I don't think a purely civilian faction would work unless the game got some additional mechanics. The game's current set up doesn't provide many avenues for play. Still, not everyone wants to play as a Federation or Klingon officer.
I think a good way to expand the game in that direction would be to add an "independent" faction. These are your smaller political powers, unaligned worlds, pirates, and independent traders. Not just civilians, though they would certainly represented.
Game-play wise, the independent faction could be used in a few different ways to add some depth and alternate forms of play to the game.
First, independent faction ships could offer unusual play styles that don't fit in thematically with any other faction. They don't have the resource base that the big powers do, so the improvise. Cruisers with only port and starboard broadside cannon slots. Lightly-armed "escorts" that carry swarms of armed marauders. Underarmed, underpowered pirate frigates with a "squadron" hanger that brings along another two, roughly equally powerful ships into the fight as pets. False flag consoles could be added to let a ship appear appear as an ally or an enemy until they choose to strike or help out. It's a great place to try out all sorts of new things.
Second, an independent faction could be a great way add visual variety to the game and let players kind of go wild with customization. Rather than coming up with a "line" of similar ships, the art team could come up with a ship type and four or five wildly different "costumes' for them that let players mix and match to create some unique designs. No reason you can't sell them more.
Thirdly, it can act as a great way to bring crafting back up to snuff. Independent fleets could build "trading hubs" instead of fleet bases. Higher tiers could let them build and craft higher level weapons and items or even more exotic high level ship that other players could buy from them, either directly, or by visiting the base. Special resources could ONLY be acquired by running exploration missions or patrols in lightly-armed and armored trading ships. Members could requisition bind-on-acquire BOffs from independent races to fill their crew. They can build these bases by running trading dailies where their ships battle through blockades or even capture NPC ships in boarding actions. Lots of neat stuff. It doesn't require too much tinkering with the current crafting system and gives independent players something unique to do.
And, you know, it could work for the Bottom line. Cryptic games are all about customization and, here, at least, players can not only create their own unique alien race to adventure in, they can create unique, alien starships. They can ab it more room for their own vision. And you can sell them all sorts of unique ship costumes, gamma quadrant races, and pretty much all the other stuff they may want, but doesn't necessarily fit in with the Federation or Klingons.
I'm confused, weren't Federation civilians basically pacifists ? And in the Klingon empire if you're not military your either an aristocrat or a slave. So basically none have heavy weapons except the military.
...A government that doesn't fear it's citizens. Hmmmmm....
You sir are getting the idea! What some have failed to realize is a civilian faction would not, and could not be a "full" faction per say. A player would still be part of the Federation or Klingon factions (or what ever comes along in the future) but would simply be a 4th carreer track.. TAC, SCI, ENG, CIV...*grin*
with access to entirely different ships, and mission types. Also, much smaller crews over all... (DOFFS maxed at no more then 50 for the very largest of civilian ships..thats with buying extra DOFF slots.. I would expect the starting DOFF slots to be no more then 30..civilian crews tend to be much smaller..only sufficient to run the ship..)
Civilian characters would have a new DOFF mission track.. "Commerce" those that achive max level could visit the opposing factions "homeworld" locations and bases.
Perhapes thier could even be a "Mercenary" Doff track (ehm, security services if your fed)
so that players could aquire "military" starships (limited to tier 3 ships, which can be deadly dangerous when fitted with Mk XII gear...even with thier lesser BOFF slots) or perhapes custom Armed Auxillury civilian ships. (hey, its Trek, ats still all about the ships you know!)
As for a civ facxtion being limited.. May it be noted for the record that the KDF faction started far more limited in many ways then this proposal... yet people have stuck with the KDF and continue to play them.. in spite of foolish mutterings from certain of the fan base that the KDF shouldn't even be in a trek game. Roddenberry would have been unadmiring of such a limited view of HIS creation.
Khemaraa sends.
Ok, gotten behind on this thread, So I am not sure how much of my comments would be answer/shot down at this point.
But I wanted to say, I find this idea intriguing. Not sure how it would work as a Career Option. I mean the more you describe the more it would probably fit into a faction rather then career option. But both do indeed have merits.
The problem with a career option though is trader ships are typically greatly outclassed by the standard "military" ships. Look at the Tuffli class in game. That is pretty much a-typical of a trader ship. They aren't going to fit into a heavy combat storyline. Which is why a I think a Faction with a different story track might be better (Of course as I said before, I would want the other "military" factions first, and of course KDF on par with the FEDs)
The space trade/mini exchange would be an interesting Idea in the game. I could see people enjoying being floating exchanges quiet a bit. But it would again take more thought, as what would you do with all thoughs energy credits on a character who (assuming we are taking a faction again) probably doesn't need it as the game is currently combat oriented.
I see great possiblities to be honest, but again I would say this is way down the line. Want my Romies, Cardies, and Dominion first (And Finished KDF )
It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".
Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.
All a Ferengi faction would need is a way to gain XP through sales on the exchange. I'm serious. Those are their missions.
It would be a non-combat faction that purely relies on the great river via the exchange, crafting, anomaly farming, etc.
Maybe they could have their own doff system that consists of slave girls and refugees, etc.
That is really all that they would need, with the exception of Ferenginar.
A Ferengi would start out with only some basics, have to sell his gun for Saurian Brandy that sells for 20 at SFA and resells on the exchange for 125 to 250.
XP is granted on the percentage of profit for that sale. So even if it's a small amount of ECs, getting 2000 ECs for a hypo that costs 350 at a vendor is respectable for an aspiring Ferengi.
Eventually, as he ranked up, it would unlock the ability to sell slaves, or start a gun racket, etc.
Most of all the components of a Ferengi faction are in the game. I see players standing at the exchange all day reselling hypos and regenerators.
The mechanics are there. I rolled a Ferengi that way, and it was a lot of fun.
Maybe they could also have a pimp house as their starbase.
I was thinking that possessing Civilian PCs with a certain proficiency in the same account as with their Military PCs (Tac, Sci, Eng) would grant certain bonuses. You can say they're friends, relatives, partners. Think of it as Insights.
Example:
A Civilian with Trading proficiency would give bonuses such as receiving discounts buying or additional mark-up selling items to the Military PC (Tac, Sci, Eng). Now the reverse would be the Civilian would be receiving bonuses from the Military PCs in the form of combat perks or ship passive bonuses. The bonuses will depend on how recent or how often the characters themselves are played.
All a Ferengi faction would need is a way to gain XP through sales on the exchange. I'm serious. Those are their missions.
It would be a non-combat faction that purely relies on the great river via the exchange, crafting, anomaly farming, etc.
Maybe they could have their own doff system that consists of slave girls and refugees, etc.
That is really all that they would need, with the exception of Ferenginar.
A Ferengi would start out with only some basics, have to sell his gun for Saurian Brandy that sells for 20 at SFA and resells on the exchange for 125 to 250.
XP is granted on the percentage of profit for that sale. So even if it's a small amount of ECs, getting 2000 ECs for a hypo that costs 350 at a vendor is respectable for an aspiring Ferengi.
Eventually, as he ranked up, it would unlock the ability to sell slaves, or start a gun racket, etc.
Most of all the components of a Ferengi faction are in the game. I see players standing at the exchange all day reselling hypos and regenerators.
The mechanics are there. I rolled a Ferengi that way, and it was a lot of fun.
Maybe they could also have a pimp house as their starbase.
I really support this idea and have wanted a Ferengi Faction for a long time. There is also an opportunity to revamp the GPL currency into something meaningful. We don't want worthless EC. Also, Fleets & Starbases, could be Corporations with holdings such as Bars and Manufacturing sites
Fleets & Starbases, could be Corporations with holdings such as Bars and Manufacturing sites
/throws pie in the sky
This would be awesome, especially if there was some kind of branching allowed, where one Ferengi could create an empire of gun running, while another one could specialize in bars.
I'm confused, weren't Federation civilians basically pacifists ? And in the Klingon empire if you're not military your either an aristocrat or a slave. So basically none have heavy weapons except the military.
If they do have heavy weapons, it's illegal. :P
But they were allowed to carry weapons for self protection.
All a Ferengi faction would need is a way to gain XP through sales on the exchange. I'm serious. Those are their missions.
It would be a non-combat faction that purely relies on the great river via the exchange, crafting, anomaly farming, etc.
Maybe they could have their own doff system that consists of slave girls and refugees, etc.
That is really all that they would need, with the exception of Ferenginar.
A Ferengi would start out with only some basics, have to sell his gun for Saurian Brandy that sells for 20 at SFA and resells on the exchange for 125 to 250.
XP is granted on the percentage of profit for that sale. So even if it's a small amount of ECs, getting 2000 ECs for a hypo that costs 350 at a vendor is respectable for an aspiring Ferengi
.
Eventually, as he ranked up, it would unlock the ability to sell slaves, or start a gun racket, etc.
Most of all the components of a Ferengi faction are in the game. I see players standing at the exchange all day reselling hypos and regenerators.
The mechanics are there. I rolled a Ferengi that way, and it was a lot of fun.
Maybe they could also have a pimp house as their starbase.
Interesting aspect, but I liked the approach in the old Starflight PC game.
Where you travel world from world, finding resources or creatures to sell, buying from one planet and selling it on another. And when you are dealing with NPCs you barter by talking them on price when buying and when selling, you sell it higher than its worth, making a profit. Then with those profits, you buy better equipment like a new ship or modifications (like more cargo space, or defensive weaponry).
So when you barter, the difference from base cost is what you gain with experience.
This could also lead to Captain skills, where one is a Bartering tree, where you have an easier time bartering and NPCs are less prone to stop negotations when you pushed them too far. (Embath BOFFS, really helps you out in telling you if you are pushing the limit).
It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".
Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.
Yeah I wanna see some renegade factions or even sub factions setup so I could possibly divide up my massive army of toons into other factions. For example taking my gorn and making it be a defector from the KDF into a gorn rebellion or my human fed and make him part of a new maquis, fake cardassian the ability to make it an actual cardassian and then defect to the true way .
Edit: Also this idea basically opens up STO/Cryptic in a way to make your own version of something like the Typhon Pact (everyone has been told the enterprise J can't be put into the game for multiple reasons but story on the 25th century creations/leading points to that alliance shouldn't be improbable).
It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".
Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.
I really like this idea, though I think "unaffiliated" or "independent" would be a better descriptor than civilian.
It could include non-military from the various factions, such as merchants, traders, independent explorers, and the like. But it could also encompass rogues, mercenaries, pirates, and smugglers.
It can encompass the Ferengi, the Packled, Yridians, and other minor races that deal with various factions. It can also include mercenaries, pirate/rogue groups (such as the ship Picard and Riker ended up on during the Gambit episodes), the Marquis, the Vulcan Isolationist movement, and more.
Personally, I find a lot of appeal in a more open progression without the overtones of federation idealism. There were many independent groups, and also many groups that had separated from one of the major factions. They could easily be bundled together.
It should also be relatively easy to create as a faction. They don't really need their own home base, as they'd come from diverse areas and would generally be welcome in most other hubs. It would be beneficial to add a couple more independent stations, similar to what Drozana station is, but they'd welcome federation and klingons there too, in all likelihood. Much of the existing missions and content could be made to work for an independent faction with only minor retooling.
Okay, this civilian faction idea is growing on me.
Having dependent and independent civilians would open a whole universe of opportunities for missions, ships, characters, RP for the RPers, trading instead of fighting, actual mercenary work, etc etc etc.
It would mean a rather HUGE change to the character creator and the addition of different skill trees along with some sort of level designations as the character gained more experience in their careers in game.
Just think of the enormous opportunities for the UGC/Foundry authors to share their ST based FanFic.
Ok, sign me up as I have a couple empty character slots open.
It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".
Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.
Personally, I would like to see them rolled into one. The Ferengi faction would be focused around the Ferengi but you could play other species known to be traders or merchants like Yrridians, Orions, and even possibly humans.
Besides Ferengi ships you could fly any number of alien ships and freighters seen throughout the series.
The mini-faction would be based out of Ferenginar but would also have access to some federation and KDF trading posts. In addition to gaining XP by doing missions and engaging in combat, you would also rank up by buying and selling, essentially net energy credits. The missions would involve things like smuggling supplies and dealing with the KDF and Starfleet. Obviously it would be primarily a foundry-driven faction.
Vessels would have their own unique classes. Besides standard ferengi vessels you would also get raiders/smugglers (similar to escorts but much faster and with lower shields and hull), deep space trade vessels (the D'kora and like, similar to cruisers, huge, slow, and not very manuverable), and salvage vessels (similar to science ships designed to locate new trade routes and salvage wrecks).
You could earn accolades that give you such things as accountwide discounts on the dilithium store, additional refining capacity, and of course, all members of this faction regardless of species could get the "lobes" trait.
Personally, I would like to see them rolled into one. The Ferengi faction would be focused around the Ferengi but you could play other species known to be traders or merchants like Yrridians, Orions, and even possibly humans.
Besides Ferengi ships you could fly any number of alien ships and freighters seen throughout the series.
The mini-faction would be based out of Ferenginar but would also have access to some federation and KDF trading posts. In addition to gaining XP by doing missions and engaging in combat, you would also rank up by buying and selling, essentially net energy credits. The missions would involve things like smuggling supplies and dealing with the KDF and Starfleet. Obviously it would be primarily a foundry-driven faction.
Vessels would have their own unique classes. Besides standard ferengi vessels you would also get raiders/smugglers (similar to escorts but much faster and with lower shields and hull), deep space trade vessels (the D'kora and like, similar to cruisers, huge, slow, and not very manuverable), and salvage vessels (similar to science ships designed to locate new trade routes and salvage wrecks).
You could earn accolades that give you such things as accountwide discounts on the dilithium store, additional refining capacity, and of course, all members of this faction regardless of species could get the "lobes" trait.
This sounds like a great way that devs could do more with that foundry region of space that they've been discussing.
That region will not be very useful to Foundry authors if no time is scheduled to provide props and assets for those worlds. However, we could do a lot with the buildings on Ferenginar, etc.
Personally, I like the idea of a non-combat faction, because I don't think it's realistic to expect a ton of new content from the devs as far as missions go. (or ships, gear, etc.)
But, it does sound like a great way to include the more peaceful folks of that region. I'd suggest using "Orion Free Traders" as opposed to the Syndicate.
Suggestions:
Ferengi
Orion Free Traders
Colonists (on an off-world quest to supply the colony)
Obvious the military ships will be more powerful. But I don't think it should be restricted to T1 freighters. Look at Seven's family trailing a Borg cube before dad screwed up and got them assimilated in a science ship. While Ferengi ship designs are meant to use force to back up their deals, they are very much non military.
Civilians have always been vital to Trek. Usually as people to be an object lesson. But before they took on that role it was obvious they were the lifeblood of the Federation.
Not necessarily. I mean, some of these independents are just examples from smaller factions. The ferengi, for example, would fit in perfectly and had decently armed ships.
I'd set up the ship categories for the independent faction as:
Freighters/Transports - the closest analog to the "cruiser," and start with lightly-armed ships similar to the tuffli, and progress up until things like the d'kora - still made for trade, but fully armed and ready for combat.
Explorers - Less heavily armed than cruisers/escorts, but relatively quick and agile. These would be the equivalent of science vessels.
Raiders/pirates - Just what it says on the box. There's marquis raiders, there's that ship from the TNG Gambit episodes, we know surplussed BoP's have ended up being sold at least a couple times. Basically small, fast crafts built for combat.
Possibly miscellaneous category like the klingon "warship" category for anything that doesn't fit with the above. There could be mining ships, scout/espionage ships, and anything else that's odd and doesn't quite fit.
I'd have no problem with Ferengi being at the top of the foodchain in non-aligned space.
The Decipher Cardgame had Neutral and Non-aligned. Neutral was basically blacked out faction colors and could work with anybody but was subject to the most restrictive of anybody's rules, if I remember right, and was mainly used for starbases and peaceful animals. Non-aligned was gold faction color and was potentially be most aggressive faction in STCCG. No attack restrictions. Could team with anybody. You could ignore attack restrictions by stocking non-aligned captains to run your Fed/KDF ships.
Most early Ferengi (prior to Ferengi getting a faction in STCCG) were non-aligned, as were many holograms.
This included the allasomorphs, Maquis, Barash, Berlinghoff Rasmussen, Captain Proton, the Cravic and Pralor robots, Dr. Soran, Ira Graves, Ishara Yar, Lore, Morn, Terran rebels (ie. non-Empire), Seven of Nine (dual - Non-Aligned/Fed), Sybok, the Albino, Vic Fontaine, Son'a, Vorgon, even Zefram Cochrane. Also, virtually unlimited Soong Type Androids. Carol Marcus. Most criminals like Kivas Fajo. The Traveler.
The ships were where it gets really interesting. Bothan fighters, Tamarian cruisers, the Edo Vessel (half in, half out of the universe), Husnock ships, Son'a ships, the Reliant under Khan, the Equinox, Balok's ship, Pakled ships, Hirogen ships commanded by runaway holograms, living ships like Gomtuu, Orion ships, the Temporal ship from Year of Hell.
Not necessarily. I mean, some of these independents are just examples from smaller factions. The ferengi, for example, would fit in perfectly and had decently armed ships.
I'd set up the ship categories for the independent faction as:
Freighters/Transports - the closest analog to the "cruiser," and start with lightly-armed ships similar to the tuffli, and progress up until things like the d'kora - still made for trade, but fully armed and ready for combat.
Explorers - Less heavily armed than cruisers/escorts, but relatively quick and agile. These would be the equivalent of science vessels.
Raiders/pirates - Just what it says on the box. There's marquis raiders, there's that ship from the TNG Gambit episodes, we know surplussed BoP's have ended up being sold at least a couple times. Basically small, fast crafts built for combat.
Possibly miscellaneous category like the klingon "warship" category for anything that doesn't fit with the above. There could be mining ships, scout/espionage ships, and anything else that's odd and doesn't quite fit.
"Stolen" is an option for VA. A great way for them to introduce a T5 Connie.
Some marvelous idea's poping up.. I do hope the devs are following this thread. Some marvelous brainstorming.
I'd not even gotten to the part of races like the Sona... a faction of non alined races also...thats certainly a concept worthy of thought.. Open things up a little to far beyond what I started with. Though perhapes more along the thought of renagades from the independents.. that would be more of a players roleplay hook though. I'd rather see it open for players to run with on thier own.
As a faction it wouldn't be that much more restrictive in some ways.. I like the concept of at Vice admiral having the ability to either buy or..ehm, steal..or perhapes umm lets call it salvage or other wise aquire faction specific ships.. not all of them mind you. Certainly BOP's from the Klingon, or may I suggest below tier 3 or 4 ships. Not quite as capable as a tier-5 stock, c-store, or fleet ship (some of those of course would be availible, such as the andorian ships, or the Vulcan crusier, or the Catian carrier and the like) And absolutly any or almost any lockbox ships.. though I cant see any reason right now why any should be excluded.
They should be capable in any of the current STF's.. and it would permit.."mercenary" play with the acception that for Omega rep I would think that only omega rep equipment would be availible.. no MACO or KHG gear for that faction...
STill, shouldn't be to restrictive in the end game. Fleet base system would be slightly different. Skill adds would be more of use to the privateer type operator..
SOme definate possibilities..
Compliment Captans.. Lets keep the ideas rolling..
Might inspire the Devs to something more interesting.. though I think we should still see the KDF fleshed our, and the RSE in game first..
though.. a civ faction might be more amenable to use as a bonus faction..its one of the few places where what the KDF faction has gone through would actually make sense..not so much a "real" faction (the quotes are a statement) as a type of player faction.
I personally think the role players would just be all over this like pakleds on a transtator
Khemaraa sends.
How many Romulans does it take to change a transtator?
One to change it, and an entire ships company to suicide over the dishonor of the failure.
How Many Q does it take to change a transstator?
Just one, but what does it want to be changed into, that the real question you must grasp!
How many Federation does it take to change a Transtator.
Just one engineer to change it, 4 more engineers with the assistance of the science dept to reserch the cause oif the failure, 7 tactical specialist to guard the bad transtator form theft or being misplaced untill the cause of thae failure is determined, 22 clerical specoialists to document the failure......
How Many Klingons are required to change out a Transtator?
*Sound of disruptor fire* SOmeone find me a new part!
How many Ferengi to change out a transtator?
anyone?
Though perhapes more along the thought of renagades from the independents.. that would be more of a players roleplay hook though. I'd rather see it open for players to run with on thier own.
Absolutely. It'd just be an independent faction. In terms of character creation, it could have all (or at least most) of the current playable races, plus possibly some new ones. But, say you make a human character. Ok, you're a human, but you're part of the independent or generic faction, so you're not in starfleet whether or not you're a federation citizen.
You're just an independent captain. Maybe for some missions you work with, or work against, the klingons or the federation. But you're not a member of either military. Instead you can roleplay that you're one of any number of things. Maybe you're a merchant, and maybe as a merchant you get into the occasional scrape or maybe do a little less-than-legal dealings. Or you envision yourself as a pirate, or an explorer, or a disillusioned colonist that quit the federation. And you can do the same with any race.
Most of the existing featured episode missions can probably be retooled to fit an independent faction. Several of them are already designed to be cross-faction, it wouldn't be hard to add a third faction to them. If any don't fit your character concept, they're skippable anyway. Exploration cluster missions work, too. Do you think some poor colony in the middle of nowhere cares who comes to their aid?
The pvp-queues and associated missions could be explained away as mercenary work or simply working with (or for) one faction temporarily. If the independents can land on both the faction stations in Eta sector block, then they could grab the missions from either the klingon or fed NPC. Kerrat they can go in on their own and make it a three-way.
And as other people mentioned, having an independent faction would be huge for the foundry authors.
It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".
Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.
Probably because "Ferengi" would be a bit restrictive.
And...well shady people come from all races not just Ferengi.
The mercenaries from TNG:Gambit come to mind.
They were...non-aligned to use a neutral term, well armed and not really interested in trading except the stuff they stole.
Starfleet Intelligence confirms that a ship matching this configuration has been linked to raids on several other planets in this sector. For the short time it was within our visual range, we were able to take sensor readings of the mercenary vessel. It appears to be encased in an energy absorbing material. Although we can see the ship, this energy sheath renders it virtually undetectable to our long range sensors.
If a "Civilian" or "Independent" or "Mercenary" faction is the closest we get to playable Maquis, or a Han Solo/Malcolm Reynolds simulator, count me in.
"Outrageous Okona," whatever.
This might be interesting as a transitional faction for Federation characters to defect to the KDF and vice-versa. Let's say, an optional defection/discommendation mission in each faction dumps that character into the neutral middle faction, opening up another optional mission that leads to the other side, should the player choose to take it.
If not, the primary gameplay for that faction could be trading (with transaction bonuses?) privateering on behalf of the other factions, mining (new means of Dilithium procurement?) smuggling, raiding... anything that doesn't fit into Starfleet and KDF gameplay.
I'd almost rather see this happen than the supposed Romulan faction or the Cardassians. It's certainly more appealing to me personally than Borg gameplay.
either as a new faction.. one that could start small and be added to. Or as a new type of player character in each player faction, either has a sub type of the existing classes or as a seperate class of its own.
Either concept is going to take work. The Civilian faction tutorial would be more along the line of how to use those elements unique to the faction, with a very basic overview of civilian game play. Must have a character at level cap..in all military factions to unlock... or in other words, the player really needs to all ready know how the game works.
good stuffs, some interesting basic idea's
a more open ended sort of game play.. allow players to play
Work a day spacers in the trek universe to smugglers, to out right pirates, bounty hunters, rebels, outlaws, mercearies and assorted types of..."contractors", scientists, Technical types like engineers. Really just a matter of the "Civilian trades" skill tree having a greater number of skills players can learn, but perhapes not to as high a level... be some work to make sure none of them become op powers or abilities. Got to watch those synergies that sneak into the code.
Are you guys aware that you can already play this way?
No you can't, not really. I mean, yeah, you can sit there and float in space and tell yourself that you're not really starfleet, and that you're actually a refugee from the mirror universe or a traveling merchant...
But nothing in the game supports that stance. From the doff assignments to featured episodes, pretty much all the content has obvious federation (or klingon) overtones. Almost all the ships are starfleet or KDF, and those that aren't come from a lockbox or the c-store, and are mostly only high-level. The starbases are also very representative of their faction. The klingon base can, maybe, pass as independent. But the fed starbase has this decor that is reminiscent of retirement homes that just screams federation. There's only like 2 "off-duty" uniforms for fed, that aren't some variation of a starfleet uniform. Klingons don't even have that. You have to go to Quinn, or J'mpok, to increase in level.
There would definitely need to be some modifications to make being independent viable.
In a true roleplaying game you should roll, play, a ..eh person. And then you decide to join Starfleet and start a career.
Classes is also such a game thing. Do we have that in the real world classes?
However there is nothing wrong with the game as it is. It is about Starfleet. You are supposed to be into that. So what about the other faction? They are just there for a contrast to give it a meaning, a perspective to the core faction. But they also bring in more versality, something different. So more factions would be great and even a non faction as civilians.
Factions are also a game thing. What exactly is a faction? More factions means more options, but also more railroaded. In the end this discussion here is about more sandbox or more themepark. Why not both?
The problem I could see with it, would be how you would measure progression effectively if you make is a sub faction or class. After all you can't be a Starfleet captain if you're not in Starfleet. You also got the problem that most of the content in the game is geared toward military style combat, so you'd either have to introduce a whole load of new exclusive content (and annoy the KDF) or radically overhaul the system.
I think the idea of captain powers and abilities/kits would also have to change or be looked at if you made civilians their own class rather than a faction and consider what sort of abilities you'd want them to have as well as balancing issues.
After all, I wouldn't want people turning up into ESTFs in Tufflis. I don't think anyone would.
Comments
I think a good way to expand the game in that direction would be to add an "independent" faction. These are your smaller political powers, unaligned worlds, pirates, and independent traders. Not just civilians, though they would certainly represented.
Game-play wise, the independent faction could be used in a few different ways to add some depth and alternate forms of play to the game.
First, independent faction ships could offer unusual play styles that don't fit in thematically with any other faction. They don't have the resource base that the big powers do, so the improvise. Cruisers with only port and starboard broadside cannon slots. Lightly-armed "escorts" that carry swarms of armed marauders. Underarmed, underpowered pirate frigates with a "squadron" hanger that brings along another two, roughly equally powerful ships into the fight as pets. False flag consoles could be added to let a ship appear appear as an ally or an enemy until they choose to strike or help out. It's a great place to try out all sorts of new things.
Second, an independent faction could be a great way add visual variety to the game and let players kind of go wild with customization. Rather than coming up with a "line" of similar ships, the art team could come up with a ship type and four or five wildly different "costumes' for them that let players mix and match to create some unique designs. No reason you can't sell them more.
Thirdly, it can act as a great way to bring crafting back up to snuff. Independent fleets could build "trading hubs" instead of fleet bases. Higher tiers could let them build and craft higher level weapons and items or even more exotic high level ship that other players could buy from them, either directly, or by visiting the base. Special resources could ONLY be acquired by running exploration missions or patrols in lightly-armed and armored trading ships. Members could requisition bind-on-acquire BOffs from independent races to fill their crew. They can build these bases by running trading dailies where their ships battle through blockades or even capture NPC ships in boarding actions. Lots of neat stuff. It doesn't require too much tinkering with the current crafting system and gives independent players something unique to do.
And, you know, it could work for the Bottom line. Cryptic games are all about customization and, here, at least, players can not only create their own unique alien race to adventure in, they can create unique, alien starships. They can ab it more room for their own vision. And you can sell them all sorts of unique ship costumes, gamma quadrant races, and pretty much all the other stuff they may want, but doesn't necessarily fit in with the Federation or Klingons.
...A government that doesn't fear it's citizens. Hmmmmm....
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Ok, gotten behind on this thread, So I am not sure how much of my comments would be answer/shot down at this point.
But I wanted to say, I find this idea intriguing. Not sure how it would work as a Career Option. I mean the more you describe the more it would probably fit into a faction rather then career option. But both do indeed have merits.
The problem with a career option though is trader ships are typically greatly outclassed by the standard "military" ships. Look at the Tuffli class in game. That is pretty much a-typical of a trader ship. They aren't going to fit into a heavy combat storyline. Which is why a I think a Faction with a different story track might be better (Of course as I said before, I would want the other "military" factions first, and of course KDF on par with the FEDs)
The space trade/mini exchange would be an interesting Idea in the game. I could see people enjoying being floating exchanges quiet a bit. But it would again take more thought, as what would you do with all thoughs energy credits on a character who (assuming we are taking a faction again) probably doesn't need it as the game is currently combat oriented.
I see great possiblities to be honest, but again I would say this is way down the line. Want my Romies, Cardies, and Dominion first (And Finished KDF
All a Ferengi faction would need is a way to gain XP through sales on the exchange. I'm serious. Those are their missions.
It would be a non-combat faction that purely relies on the great river via the exchange, crafting, anomaly farming, etc.
Maybe they could have their own doff system that consists of slave girls and refugees, etc.
That is really all that they would need, with the exception of Ferenginar.
A Ferengi would start out with only some basics, have to sell his gun for Saurian Brandy that sells for 20 at SFA and resells on the exchange for 125 to 250.
XP is granted on the percentage of profit for that sale. So even if it's a small amount of ECs, getting 2000 ECs for a hypo that costs 350 at a vendor is respectable for an aspiring Ferengi.
Eventually, as he ranked up, it would unlock the ability to sell slaves, or start a gun racket, etc.
Most of all the components of a Ferengi faction are in the game. I see players standing at the exchange all day reselling hypos and regenerators.
The mechanics are there. I rolled a Ferengi that way, and it was a lot of fun.
Maybe they could also have a pimp house as their starbase.
Example:
A Civilian with Trading proficiency would give bonuses such as receiving discounts buying or additional mark-up selling items to the Military PC (Tac, Sci, Eng). Now the reverse would be the Civilian would be receiving bonuses from the Military PCs in the form of combat perks or ship passive bonuses. The bonuses will depend on how recent or how often the characters themselves are played.
I really support this idea and have wanted a Ferengi Faction for a long time. There is also an opportunity to revamp the GPL currency into something meaningful. We don't want worthless EC. Also, Fleets & Starbases, could be Corporations with holdings such as Bars and Manufacturing sites
/throws pie in the sky
I wanna be Cyrano De Borg-gerac.
This would be awesome, especially if there was some kind of branching allowed, where one Ferengi could create an empire of gun running, while another one could specialize in bars.
Probably asking for too much there.
If they do have heavy weapons, it's illegal. :P
But they were allowed to carry weapons for self protection.
Interesting aspect, but I liked the approach in the old Starflight PC game.
Where you travel world from world, finding resources or creatures to sell, buying from one planet and selling it on another. And when you are dealing with NPCs you barter by talking them on price when buying and when selling, you sell it higher than its worth, making a profit. Then with those profits, you buy better equipment like a new ship or modifications (like more cargo space, or defensive weaponry).
So when you barter, the difference from base cost is what you gain with experience.
This could also lead to Captain skills, where one is a Bartering tree, where you have an easier time bartering and NPCs are less prone to stop negotations when you pushed them too far. (Embath BOFFS, really helps you out in telling you if you are pushing the limit).
Yeah I wanna see some renegade factions or even sub factions setup so I could possibly divide up my massive army of toons into other factions. For example taking my gorn and making it be a defector from the KDF into a gorn rebellion or my human fed and make him part of a new maquis, fake cardassian the ability to make it an actual cardassian and then defect to the true way
Edit: Also this idea basically opens up STO/Cryptic in a way to make your own version of something like the Typhon Pact (everyone has been told the enterprise J can't be put into the game for multiple reasons but story on the 25th century creations/leading points to that alliance shouldn't be improbable).
I really like this idea, though I think "unaffiliated" or "independent" would be a better descriptor than civilian.
It could include non-military from the various factions, such as merchants, traders, independent explorers, and the like. But it could also encompass rogues, mercenaries, pirates, and smugglers.
It can encompass the Ferengi, the Packled, Yridians, and other minor races that deal with various factions. It can also include mercenaries, pirate/rogue groups (such as the ship Picard and Riker ended up on during the Gambit episodes), the Marquis, the Vulcan Isolationist movement, and more.
Personally, I find a lot of appeal in a more open progression without the overtones of federation idealism. There were many independent groups, and also many groups that had separated from one of the major factions. They could easily be bundled together.
It should also be relatively easy to create as a faction. They don't really need their own home base, as they'd come from diverse areas and would generally be welcome in most other hubs. It would be beneficial to add a couple more independent stations, similar to what Drozana station is, but they'd welcome federation and klingons there too, in all likelihood. Much of the existing missions and content could be made to work for an independent faction with only minor retooling.
Having dependent and independent civilians would open a whole universe of opportunities for missions, ships, characters, RP for the RPers, trading instead of fighting, actual mercenary work, etc etc etc.
It would mean a rather HUGE change to the character creator and the addition of different skill trees along with some sort of level designations as the character gained more experience in their careers in game.
Just think of the enormous opportunities for the UGC/Foundry authors to share their ST based FanFic.
Ok, sign me up as I have a couple empty character slots open.
.........................
I need an LTS.
Personally, I would like to see them rolled into one. The Ferengi faction would be focused around the Ferengi but you could play other species known to be traders or merchants like Yrridians, Orions, and even possibly humans.
Besides Ferengi ships you could fly any number of alien ships and freighters seen throughout the series.
The mini-faction would be based out of Ferenginar but would also have access to some federation and KDF trading posts. In addition to gaining XP by doing missions and engaging in combat, you would also rank up by buying and selling, essentially net energy credits. The missions would involve things like smuggling supplies and dealing with the KDF and Starfleet. Obviously it would be primarily a foundry-driven faction.
Vessels would have their own unique classes. Besides standard ferengi vessels you would also get raiders/smugglers (similar to escorts but much faster and with lower shields and hull), deep space trade vessels (the D'kora and like, similar to cruisers, huge, slow, and not very manuverable), and salvage vessels (similar to science ships designed to locate new trade routes and salvage wrecks).
You could earn accolades that give you such things as accountwide discounts on the dilithium store, additional refining capacity, and of course, all members of this faction regardless of species could get the "lobes" trait.
This sounds like a great way that devs could do more with that foundry region of space that they've been discussing.
That region will not be very useful to Foundry authors if no time is scheduled to provide props and assets for those worlds. However, we could do a lot with the buildings on Ferenginar, etc.
Personally, I like the idea of a non-combat faction, because I don't think it's realistic to expect a ton of new content from the devs as far as missions go. (or ships, gear, etc.)
But, it does sound like a great way to include the more peaceful folks of that region. I'd suggest using "Orion Free Traders" as opposed to the Syndicate.
Suggestions:
Ferengi
Orion Free Traders
Colonists (on an off-world quest to supply the colony)
Civilians have always been vital to Trek. Usually as people to be an object lesson. But before they took on that role it was obvious they were the lifeblood of the Federation.
Heaps of potential. Far more than Romulsns.
Not necessarily. I mean, some of these independents are just examples from smaller factions. The ferengi, for example, would fit in perfectly and had decently armed ships.
I'd set up the ship categories for the independent faction as:
Freighters/Transports - the closest analog to the "cruiser," and start with lightly-armed ships similar to the tuffli, and progress up until things like the d'kora - still made for trade, but fully armed and ready for combat.
Explorers - Less heavily armed than cruisers/escorts, but relatively quick and agile. These would be the equivalent of science vessels.
Raiders/pirates - Just what it says on the box. There's marquis raiders, there's that ship from the TNG Gambit episodes, we know surplussed BoP's have ended up being sold at least a couple times. Basically small, fast crafts built for combat.
Possibly miscellaneous category like the klingon "warship" category for anything that doesn't fit with the above. There could be mining ships, scout/espionage ships, and anything else that's odd and doesn't quite fit.
The Decipher Cardgame had Neutral and Non-aligned. Neutral was basically blacked out faction colors and could work with anybody but was subject to the most restrictive of anybody's rules, if I remember right, and was mainly used for starbases and peaceful animals. Non-aligned was gold faction color and was potentially be most aggressive faction in STCCG. No attack restrictions. Could team with anybody. You could ignore attack restrictions by stocking non-aligned captains to run your Fed/KDF ships.
Most early Ferengi (prior to Ferengi getting a faction in STCCG) were non-aligned, as were many holograms.
This included the allasomorphs, Maquis, Barash, Berlinghoff Rasmussen, Captain Proton, the Cravic and Pralor robots, Dr. Soran, Ira Graves, Ishara Yar, Lore, Morn, Terran rebels (ie. non-Empire), Seven of Nine (dual - Non-Aligned/Fed), Sybok, the Albino, Vic Fontaine, Son'a, Vorgon, even Zefram Cochrane. Also, virtually unlimited Soong Type Androids. Carol Marcus. Most criminals like Kivas Fajo. The Traveler.
The ships were where it gets really interesting. Bothan fighters, Tamarian cruisers, the Edo Vessel (half in, half out of the universe), Husnock ships, Son'a ships, the Reliant under Khan, the Equinox, Balok's ship, Pakled ships, Hirogen ships commanded by runaway holograms, living ships like Gomtuu, Orion ships, the Temporal ship from Year of Hell.
"Stolen" is an option for VA. A great way for them to introduce a T5 Connie.
someday it truely pays to post around here!
Some marvelous idea's poping up.. I do hope the devs are following this thread. Some marvelous brainstorming.
I'd not even gotten to the part of races like the Sona... a faction of non alined races also...thats certainly a concept worthy of thought.. Open things up a little to far beyond what I started with. Though perhapes more along the thought of renagades from the independents.. that would be more of a players roleplay hook though. I'd rather see it open for players to run with on thier own.
As a faction it wouldn't be that much more restrictive in some ways.. I like the concept of at Vice admiral having the ability to either buy or..ehm, steal..or perhapes umm lets call it salvage or other wise aquire faction specific ships.. not all of them mind you. Certainly BOP's from the Klingon, or may I suggest below tier 3 or 4 ships. Not quite as capable as a tier-5 stock, c-store, or fleet ship (some of those of course would be availible, such as the andorian ships, or the Vulcan crusier, or the Catian carrier and the like) And absolutly any or almost any lockbox ships.. though I cant see any reason right now why any should be excluded.
They should be capable in any of the current STF's.. and it would permit.."mercenary" play with the acception that for Omega rep I would think that only omega rep equipment would be availible.. no MACO or KHG gear for that faction...
STill, shouldn't be to restrictive in the end game. Fleet base system would be slightly different. Skill adds would be more of use to the privateer type operator..
SOme definate possibilities..
Compliment Captans.. Lets keep the ideas rolling..
Might inspire the Devs to something more interesting.. though I think we should still see the KDF fleshed our, and the RSE in game first..
though.. a civ faction might be more amenable to use as a bonus faction..its one of the few places where what the KDF faction has gone through would actually make sense..not so much a "real" faction (the quotes are a statement) as a type of player faction.
I personally think the role players would just be all over this like pakleds on a transtator
Khemaraa sends.
How many Romulans does it take to change a transtator?
One to change it, and an entire ships company to suicide over the dishonor of the failure.
How Many Q does it take to change a transstator?
Just one, but what does it want to be changed into, that the real question you must grasp!
How many Federation does it take to change a Transtator.
Just one engineer to change it, 4 more engineers with the assistance of the science dept to reserch the cause oif the failure, 7 tactical specialist to guard the bad transtator form theft or being misplaced untill the cause of thae failure is determined, 22 clerical specoialists to document the failure......
How Many Klingons are required to change out a Transtator?
*Sound of disruptor fire* SOmeone find me a new part!
How many Ferengi to change out a transtator?
anyone?
*grin* Khemaraa sends
Absolutely. It'd just be an independent faction. In terms of character creation, it could have all (or at least most) of the current playable races, plus possibly some new ones. But, say you make a human character. Ok, you're a human, but you're part of the independent or generic faction, so you're not in starfleet whether or not you're a federation citizen.
You're just an independent captain. Maybe for some missions you work with, or work against, the klingons or the federation. But you're not a member of either military. Instead you can roleplay that you're one of any number of things. Maybe you're a merchant, and maybe as a merchant you get into the occasional scrape or maybe do a little less-than-legal dealings. Or you envision yourself as a pirate, or an explorer, or a disillusioned colonist that quit the federation. And you can do the same with any race.
Most of the existing featured episode missions can probably be retooled to fit an independent faction. Several of them are already designed to be cross-faction, it wouldn't be hard to add a third faction to them. If any don't fit your character concept, they're skippable anyway. Exploration cluster missions work, too. Do you think some poor colony in the middle of nowhere cares who comes to their aid?
The pvp-queues and associated missions could be explained away as mercenary work or simply working with (or for) one faction temporarily. If the independents can land on both the faction stations in Eta sector block, then they could grab the missions from either the klingon or fed NPC. Kerrat they can go in on their own and make it a three-way.
And as other people mentioned, having an independent faction would be huge for the foundry authors.
Probably because "Ferengi" would be a bit restrictive.
And...well shady people come from all races not just Ferengi.
The mercenaries from TNG:Gambit come to mind.
They were...non-aligned to use a neutral term, well armed and not really interested in trading except the stuff they stole.
And they had a cool-looking ship on top of that.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Baran%27s_mercenary_vessel
it was sleek, menacing and had a nice stealth coating.
"Outrageous Okona," whatever.
This might be interesting as a transitional faction for Federation characters to defect to the KDF and vice-versa. Let's say, an optional defection/discommendation mission in each faction dumps that character into the neutral middle faction, opening up another optional mission that leads to the other side, should the player choose to take it.
If not, the primary gameplay for that faction could be trading (with transaction bonuses?) privateering on behalf of the other factions, mining (new means of Dilithium procurement?) smuggling, raiding... anything that doesn't fit into Starfleet and KDF gameplay.
I'd almost rather see this happen than the supposed Romulan faction or the Cardassians. It's certainly more appealing to me personally than Borg gameplay.
Either concept is going to take work. The Civilian faction tutorial would be more along the line of how to use those elements unique to the faction, with a very basic overview of civilian game play. Must have a character at level cap..in all military factions to unlock... or in other words, the player really needs to all ready know how the game works.
good stuffs, some interesting basic idea's
a more open ended sort of game play.. allow players to play
Work a day spacers in the trek universe to smugglers, to out right pirates, bounty hunters, rebels, outlaws, mercearies and assorted types of..."contractors", scientists, Technical types like engineers. Really just a matter of the "Civilian trades" skill tree having a greater number of skills players can learn, but perhapes not to as high a level... be some work to make sure none of them become op powers or abilities. Got to watch those synergies that sneak into the code.
No you can't, not really. I mean, yeah, you can sit there and float in space and tell yourself that you're not really starfleet, and that you're actually a refugee from the mirror universe or a traveling merchant...
But nothing in the game supports that stance. From the doff assignments to featured episodes, pretty much all the content has obvious federation (or klingon) overtones. Almost all the ships are starfleet or KDF, and those that aren't come from a lockbox or the c-store, and are mostly only high-level. The starbases are also very representative of their faction. The klingon base can, maybe, pass as independent. But the fed starbase has this decor that is reminiscent of retirement homes that just screams federation. There's only like 2 "off-duty" uniforms for fed, that aren't some variation of a starfleet uniform. Klingons don't even have that. You have to go to Quinn, or J'mpok, to increase in level.
There would definitely need to be some modifications to make being independent viable.
Classes is also such a game thing. Do we have that in the real world classes?
However there is nothing wrong with the game as it is. It is about Starfleet. You are supposed to be into that. So what about the other faction? They are just there for a contrast to give it a meaning, a perspective to the core faction. But they also bring in more versality, something different. So more factions would be great and even a non faction as civilians.
Factions are also a game thing. What exactly is a faction? More factions means more options, but also more railroaded. In the end this discussion here is about more sandbox or more themepark. Why not both?
I think the idea of captain powers and abilities/kits would also have to change or be looked at if you made civilians their own class rather than a faction and consider what sort of abilities you'd want them to have as well as balancing issues.
After all, I wouldn't want people turning up into ESTFs in Tufflis. I don't think anyone would.
First, the cake was a lie and now civilians - how many more times ! :eek:
lol