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How about CIVILIANS as the third faction?

oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
All this glory hounding about military starship captains..

What about the work a day civilian spacers out there? Small tramps starships, commercial haulers out to make an e-cred? Doing a little paid for exploration for resources?

You do realize that the bulk of general exploration that goes on in the galaxy is done not by military vessles, but my privatly owned starships looking to open new commercial markets?

Oversized warp capable shuttles, Tramp frieghters (like the one at the beginniing of ST-III)
Mail packets (ship federation Express! When it absolutly, positivly has to get there overnight!) Large bulk carriers, Passenger liners and transports. Colony ships.

Military starships make up only a fraction of the starships travelling the galaxy... These are the people that have the real adventures, and often times find those new worlds that the federation and klingon diplomatic corp ends up sending contact envoys to.

Negociating contracts, hostile takeovers, aggressive marketting! It can be just as exciting as a military carrer. Learning to make do with less.

Recall the civilan hauler in Enterprise that had to deal with defending themselves against pirates.

Consider the possibility of CIVILANS as a third faction in STO. Enrich the universe with those other stories that don't involve those sexy over gunned and EXPENSIVE warships of Starfleet, the KDF, or the other space navies. Play as a Maqui perhapes..

There ARE other posibilities of play in the STO universe!

Khemaraa sends
"I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • wolfexile1wolfexile1 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I don't think this would work out. The only real thing I could see them being used for is overflowing the game with e-creds and RP.

    You are suggesting a faction with weak ships, Weak everything, Just for the sake of them being there.
  • thay8472thay8472 Member Posts: 6,376 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    meh they could add a civilian rep or something for those who want to play as one of those dumb colonists that hickks and Co have to save in more ways than one.
    zx2t8tuj4i10.png
    Thank you for the Typhoon!
  • pyryckpyryck Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Why not? The devs could just place the KDF within the Federation by re-instating the treaty, crank out the Romulan Star Empire and then add in the civilian faction! :P

    Cryptic, make it so! ;)
  • crownvic2doorcrownvic2door Member Posts: 301 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    That would be fun, even more fun if we had a more open map on worlds like Vulcan,new Romulus, Bajor, earth, along with the many civilian outposts we see in show and the movies...the Moon perhaps? How about Cardasia? so much untapped potential but perhaps we should let them focus on getting the bugs and nerfs un-nerfed:D
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    How about we get EVE, slap Star Trek in front of it and crack on? Sounds like a great idea to me.
  • pyryckpyryck Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    tc10b wrote: »
    How about we get EVE, slap Star Trek in front of it and crack on? Sounds like a great idea to me.

    EvE'ers would NOT like having their PvP neutered by Cryptic! :P
  • voyagerfan9751voyagerfan9751 Member Posts: 1,120 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    While I am not totally against a Civilian/non-aligned/neutral faction (I do think it would be not as much fun as you think, but that is another conversation) I don't know that I would like it for the next faction.

    Too Many people like the idea of playing as the Romulan Star Empire, or Cardassian Union, or Dominion. I think the resources needed to create a new faction should go to those before you expand into the "non-military" factions
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Agreed, they should probably finish the KDF off (one way or the other) before introducing another new faction.
    Maybe that's what they will do in May, (it would make it "bigger than a season") Who knows?
  • psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,650 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I would play within such a thing as a civilian mini-faction. Which would function as integrated within all other fully-developed factions. One example where this might be fun are the Independent Merchants. Instead of the NPC merchant ships seen in Sector Space currently, those merchants could be the player's instead. A roving, mini-exchange, if you will? As the goods would only be what that player has crafted at Memory Alpha or otherwise scavenged in some way.

    Edited for further thought:

    These merchant's goods would still be available through the exchange. With a tag indicating that you could buy the goods at a % discount if you seek out the Merchant's trading vessel in sector space.
    (/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
  • pyryckpyryck Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hmm...civilian ships playing the space lanes un-protected and un-escorted could lead to a very profitable career for my Ferengi D'kora captain!
  • tc10btc10b Member Posts: 1,549 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Hands off, my Nausicaan has first dibs being a pirate and all...
  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    psiameese wrote: »
    I would play within such a thing as a civilian mini-faction. Which would function as integrated within all other fully-developed factions. One example where this might be fun are the Independent Merchants. Instead of the NPC merchant ships seen in Sector Space currently, those merchants could be the player's instead. A roving, mini-exchange, if you will? As the goods would only be what that player has crafted at Memory Alpha or otherwise scavenged in some way.

    Edited for further thought:

    These merchant's goods would still be available through the exchange. With a tag indicating that you could buy the goods at a % discount if you seek out the Merchant's trading vessel in sector space.

    You sir are getting the idea! What some have failed to realize is a civilian faction would not, and could not be a "full" faction per say. A player would still be part of the Federation or Klingon factions (or what ever comes along in the future) but would simply be a 4th carreer track.. TAC, SCI, ENG, CIV...*grin*

    with access to entirely different ships, and mission types. Also, much smaller crews over all... (DOFFS maxed at no more then 50 for the very largest of civilian ships..thats with buying extra DOFF slots.. I would expect the starting DOFF slots to be no more then 30..civilian crews tend to be much smaller..only sufficient to run the ship..)

    Civilian characters would have a new DOFF mission track.. "Commerce" those that achive max level could visit the opposing factions "homeworld" locations and bases.

    Perhapes thier could even be a "Mercenary" Doff track (ehm, security services if your fed)
    so that players could aquire "military" starships (limited to tier 3 ships, which can be deadly dangerous when fitted with Mk XII gear...even with thier lesser BOFF slots) or perhapes custom Armed Auxillury civilian ships. (hey, its Trek, ats still all about the ships you know!)

    As for a civ facxtion being limited.. May it be noted for the record that the KDF faction started far more limited in many ways then this proposal... yet people have stuck with the KDF and continue to play them.. in spite of foolish mutterings from certain of the fan base that the KDF shouldn't even be in a trek game. Roddenberry would have been unadmiring of such a limited view of HIS creation.

    Khemaraa sends.
    "I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
  • pyryckpyryck Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    <snipped>

    You do realize that if Cryptic provides game play for those non-Fed-playing-players with other options, there is a very real possibility that the current 18% of the playerbase tooling around on the KDF side of the fence will quickly jump the fence to one of the other options which will then lead to even fewer players complaining about the "Red UI"?
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Sure... I am in...

    I do need a chef and a bartender on my ship.

    Be warned though... I go into alot of battle.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • velquavelqua Member Posts: 1,220 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    I think I would enjoy playing a Civilian faction rather than a military one. The civilians could have special places where none of the military factions are allowed. Having your own store would also be cool too. Maybe even travel to the Gamma Quad for commodities. ;)
    18662390068_f716cd60e3.jpg
  • ayradyssayradyss Member Posts: 187 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Well, I'm not saying such a thing couldn't be a good, enjoyable game. But to me, it's really not Star Trek. Sounds like Privateer Online or whatever generic space game you want to call it. I'd rather not see the direction of the game go even further away from the tone of the series. YMMV, and all that.
    Live long, and prosper.
  • dastahldastahl Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    You are forgetting the "Renegade factor".

    Civilians in the STO universe are usually unaligned with the powers... They are bound by no-one but themselves, and don't answer to goverments.

    Ferengi traders would still have to answer to the hall of commerce, as where a civilian, who bought a ship from the klingons, weapons from the ferengi, and equipment from the romulans do not answer to anyone but themselves (think Neelix or Morn).

    Theres a interesting factor to not feel like you are under someones command... I mean... Think if you didn have a boss above you, and could do whatever you wanted with STO without having to ask permission first... (Don't even pretend that isn't a interesting thought to you).

    BTW... I have a slot open for a chef, if you're interested?
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • boglejam73boglejam73 Member Posts: 890 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    anazonda wrote: »
    (think Neelix or Morn)

    Never, NEVER, think Neelix. Morn - ok. Never Neelix.

    If they ever introduce a faction that lets anyone play as Neelix-people, I will immediately request that the next faction added be whoever the Voyager Baddies were that melted most of the other Neelix-ie people.

    But yeah, maybe civilians in general would be a cool addition.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,650 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    Based purely on your train of thought, I could see a neutral, Ferengi-based faction. Say, operated out of Drozana. Assuming this were a faction and not a reputation-based approach, I suppose Drozana might act as a Starbase for those player's to improve upon over time. But not to its Starfleet standard as it's not a Starfleet facility anymore.

    Missions? I suppose both a PvE and PvP opportunity could present itself. Story missions of our Merchant Captain could be woven into the current landscape. A story mission requiring the player to compete against Phineas Mudd for that supply shipment between Federation worlds. Another evading enemy forces to complete a shipment. Another that could result in being boarded. A ground PvP scenario might involving having been boarded at all.

    One has suggested developing this as an actual faction might water-down the player base for other factions. Which is why I suggested that it be integrated into all existing as well as future factions. Independent doesn't necessarily mean renegade. But that could be one player's choice, I suppose.
    (/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
  • qutothqutoth Member Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    I would just like to put my ferengi trader in a set of overalls similar to the ones in the 3rd year event mission. Heck I might even pay zen for one.

    Path to 2409: Martok made the definitive statement of the Klingon Empire's view of the Romulan Star Empire in 2388. "
    The Klingons will offer no treaty, no aid, and no hand that is not holding a blade"
  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    Thank you for commenting on this Mister Stahl!!

    If you would consider a suggestion.. I did refine this a bit in this thread. I would suggest it as a additional "career" track.. a 4th choice from the normal TACtial, SCIence, and ENGineer. A CIV fro CIVilan track. The ships and game play would be different. One poster on the thread likened it to a sort of "Privateer" game in the trek universe, and honestly, thats not a bad comparison. SHips would pack half the firepower of the "military" ships at best..(CIV players would have full access to lock box ships though.. it's only right after all! and would give civ players a chance to go toe to toe with the big boys..

    Player skills would be things like "Negociation" ..improved chances of "hold" attacks/actions working in ground or space combat... player abilities in the CIV track would be more non combat.. but, by all menas allow CIV players to use any of the availble kits, but at a level one below thier nominal rank. Abilities that would allow them to earn more "income" from various transactions in game (not a large amount, but large nuff to be significant.. say absolutle maximum of say a 10% over a "normal" class..though 7.5% would likely be a bit wiser.

    You might see a CIV class in an STF..but only if they've managed to get ahold of one of the better lock box ships.

    Also.. make it a given that if a CIV player is going to purchase "military" grade weapons for a ship they have to pay twice as much for them ((you know, special use fees from the United Federation of Planets, or appropriate "bribes" to KDF officials to permit the mounting of them. CIV players would also have to pay "Taxes" to maintain thier status..

    There are many possibilities in the concept of a CIV class. It would also allow players to be a "Ferengi Merchant" or any other type of civilian. I might suggest also that CIV class players be not restricted to a factions "Normal" race selection...but have access to any races present in the game.. but CIV characters would have a slightly different selection of attributes to choose from appropriate to non military characters, and of course having a purely civilian "mercentile" set of skills availible to put points into. The purely military skills would be there also, but be limited to level 3 in those particular types of skill.

    ...note that engineering and science skills would not be limited...no logical sense for them to be, though some engineering and science skills would be different then those spacific to the standard TAC, SCI, and ENG skills.

    Civilian characters, for when you want to do your conquests in the board room and the exchange floor.

    Civilians would also be able to form..lets not call them fleets, lets call them corporations, or even better "Chartered Companies" much like the east india company of earth history...

    I could trot out idea's and concepts all day long for a trek universe civilian class. Not all Scientists and engineers wear a Starfleet uniform. They do how ever contract thier services! (government contracts.. a lovely thing if you can get one!)

    I could see player Civ caracter performing "fleet" missions of running a planetary blockade.
    The more "supply's your able to deliver the better the payoff...assuming you can manage to not get your ship killed doing it. CIV players have a most unusuall option in thier PvE missions.. it's called "Failure". ((yes yes, a novel concept i know!))

    the possibilities are there..not any time soon though, it would likely take most of a year JUST to put together the specific sort of game sub systems to make a CIV class work, including the specific skill trees.

    An additional thought would be to hav a CIV sub class of each of the primary classes of TAC (Mercenary/Security) SCI (more difficult..civilian scientists would tend to be more specialized.. though a anthro specalist could be a great deal of fun to play...I recall a certain Next Gen character female character that ran off with Q for a few years).
    and ENG toons could be fun.. shiprights, reserch engineers and the like..

    .... It's a concept.. be an interesting way of getting the first Romulan player characters in game..

    I think it would be fun. Trek is just a frame work and history. There's an entire universe to explore.. why should the shoe polishing military types have all the fun?

    Khemaraa sends.

    P.S. I would give me an opportunity to play a REAL orion pirate which is definatly something I could get into. Humm.. Pirate faction..now there! a Faction everyone can hate!
    "I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
  • jkstocbrjkstocbr Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    ... Ferengi Traders (& Schemers)
  • jengozjengoz Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    Not every trader in Star Trek is a "Ferengi Trader". See -> http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110414170849/memoryalpha/en/images/4/46/Harcourt_Fenton_Mudd_2266.jpg

    and by the way, i vote yes to any non-military gameplay that you can add to the game.

    Beers,

    Jengoz=||=

    =-=-=-=-=-=
    Play Farts, Cause They're Funny
    "Star Trek Online is powered by the most abundant resource in the galaxy . . . Gullibility"
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    Not the first time that was brought up.

    I myself posted that would be great if there was a Trader / Merchant faction where the opposition would be Privateers.

    This would allow Cryptic to add in more civilian ships and give them a non-combat option of playing STO, where they could travel throughout the Galaxy in earning EC or Latinum. (With the account bank, this could help some players make money to buy stuff.) Like having trade routes.

    And open up new opportunities like new gear, new items, that only the traders could provide. Maybe things like decorations for your ship or fleet base? New locations, like giving us to visit Ferenginar or Andoria or the captial city of Vulcan, or going to Risa on business. Or the back streets of Cardassia Prime.


    This could even involve PvP with the Privateers, where they could raid other players ships. Of course the PvP is different from Starfleet / KDF PvP where there are no kits and such, so it's classic Trek-style combat.

    So many possibilities, to me would make a great fourth faction.
  • amosov78amosov78 Member Posts: 1,495 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    A pirate is me! :P
    U.S.S. Endeavour NCC-71895 - Nebula-class
    Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
    Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
  • deathomightdeathomight Member Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    dastahl wrote: »
    It is surprising to see a faction request for "civilian" instead of something more specific like "Ferengi Trader".

    Seems like if STO was going to add a non-military faction, it would need to have at least some sort themed faction or alternate gameplay to the ever present space combat of the other factions.

    Yeah definitely thinking more as independent rather than civilian... Han Solo, or a bounty hunter, not necessarily with any faction...
  • oldkhemaraaoldkhemaraa Member Posts: 1,039 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    humm, perhapes we could have both.. a Civilian faction, and faction civilian class of characters..
    "I aim to misbehave" - Malcolm Reynolds
  • kamiyama317kamiyama317 Member Posts: 1,295 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    A civilian faction would be fun and rewarding IF:

    1. Cargo Capacity depended on the size and class of your ship. Obviously civilian vessels would devote more room to cargo and amenities, and less to defense systems and science labs.

    2. The game had a more complex economy, with many more commodities and many more worlds buying and selling them at different prices. This would create trade routes where players could buy and sell from planet to planet, turning a profit.

    Also, smuggling and pirate activity. Let's say Romulan Ale is prohibited on Earth. If you enter Sol System with Romulan Ale in your cargo hold, a Federation Vessel might tell you to hand it over, or he will open fire. The same could work for pirates - normally docile NPC's could orbit planets and if they detect something valuable in your cargo hold, they could turn hostile and attack.

    3. The game had colonization and planetary management that would allow players to carry colonists to other worlds, and then the player could oversee construction projects, mining projects, terraforming projects, factories, etc.



    It would be a lot of work for one little faction. Maybe in STO 2...
  • squishkinsquishkin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2013
    It would certainly be interesting to see a faction designed around having relatively combat incapable ships, like the Tuffli.

    You'd have to be creative there, of course, and I'm not sure how well it would work out.

    Perhaps better trading contacts for commodities, access to unique ground and space consumables and perhaps engines/shields/deflectors; though what would you really do without those things?

    If you were going to create a civilian faction, I imagine one would have to see some kind of Star-Trader-esque layer placed over the galactic map to go with it.

    I don't see this as a bad thing at all, really; I think the mechanics necessary to create that sort of environment would allow for an amazing expansion of the exploration mechanic, among other things.

    Something vaguely like this is what I had in mind...

    Every planetary system is classified with a percentage of faction and perhaps a percentage of 'rogue'. Each planetary system is given a generated 'contact' which can be hailed from that system- much like how docking with starbases is done right now.

    Behind the scenes, there are two separate primary systems:

    1. The trading system; each system contact lets you buy and sell all basic commodities, at various rates. To start with, these rates could be random, within a specific range. Medical supplies, for example, could range from 60-180 EC each, depending on the system.

    2. An "events" system, propagated with a variety of random events and places, which uses the current quest system. "Captain, will you deliver supplies X to system Y?" or "Captain, can you go to System X and kill the Space Dragon?" "Captain, can you deliver this esteemed passenger to system A?"

    So you might show up at ESD, which has a rating of 98% Federation, 2% Rogue. When you come out of warp, right away there's a roll on the faction table, and then you roll on an event table.

    So for example, if you roll Federation, 70% of the time, nothing may happen. 25% of the time, a Federation starship may drop out of warp beside you and have you play a 'customs inspection' dialogue minigame (much like at Acamar) or fight. 5% of the time, you may run into a random 'special event' and get to help or not; say a Miranda-class ship appears followed by a Klingon BoP, and if you help fight off the Klingons you get a reward. If you roll Rogue, then 50% of the time you'll be attacked by random rogues (strength rolled again on a table for variety); 30% of the time you'll get a random trade encounter with a shady figure...etc, etc.

    Once you get close enough to ESD, you'll get a "hail" contact. This contact will have a trade window, allowing you to buy and sell common commodities, and then a window for "news" or something similar, where you can find either randomly generated meaningless stuff (Weather report in San Francisco, or even better- random statistics about what's happening in STO- "Today, 75,000 bridge officers were reassigned to Federation starships!") or quest messages "This person needs to be delivered to Starbase K-7, can you accomplish this?".

    With the random quests, presumably the reward would be specified at the beginning, with a variety of potential rewards from fleet marks to dilithium to items to EC, depending on the kind of mission.

    As the system began to get cranked up, you could link in reputation influences to alter the 'roll tables' when you appear in a system (so for example, showing up in a Romulan system when you have high NR rep would give you 'better' rolls than showing up with worse rep), and such.

    It could even be rolled out in stages fairly straightforwardly, I imagine.

    1. System Contact for resource trading
    2. Random Appearance Events
    3. Updated Quest/Exploration minigame system
    4. Reputation Interface

    It would also neatly lead into a "ground control"-esque game, because you could link in the "do our quests" and the results of them with the control fraction of the system.

    For example, you go to the Veyga system in the Pi Canis sector block. This has a 'base' factional influence of 5% rogue, 55% Federation, 40% Klingon, expressing its relative 'borderness'. A Federation player showing up would have a 55% chance to 'assist' starfleet and/or a 40% chance to "fight off" the klingons. Successfully assisting Starfleet or fighting off the Klingons would increase Federation allegiance, whereas failing would decrease it (and the inverse for the Klingons). Similarly, successfully completing the missions granted by that system's contact would increase allegiance for your faction.

    For balance's sake, you would probably want to make it so that the further toward your faction the allegiance tipped, the harder the missions got (i.e., therefore creating a constant pressure to bring it back to its 'base' faction allegiance).

    I could definitely see how you could integrate that kind of Star Trader-esque game to make a less combat-oriented faction more viable, and how the mechanics necessary for it could boost all factions and increase the general interest of the game.
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