I'll be honest, I was gone for a while and only just returned. I'm in a fleet I founded just over 3 years ago. We're a small fleet, under 25 active members. Many of the members are lifetime subscribers and have been in STO since launch. Here are my thoughts:
When I first came back and saw the new Fleet Holdings, my first thought was they were way too expensive for a small fleet like ours. We'll take for ever to max out. Going off topic, I also found the game to have gotten very grindy. As well, $20 for a Fleet ship! WTF? I've purchased over 40 keys which have yielded very little and nothing I was at all excited about. That's $40 for almost nothing!
I'll be permanently done with STO the moment a new MMORPG I like comes out.
$20 for a ship!?!?!?
I know its not an mmo but the new trek game comes out april 23rd and at least it will provide and alternative to this grind fest. So who knows maybe I can get my trek fix that way.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
3. Data shows, most small Fleets are far more starved for Dilithium than they are for Fleet Marks. There is need for both, but more need right now for Dilithium than Fleet Marks - thus today's change. More Fleet Marks are coming - just not in Foundry play.
^ this right here is a straight up lie.
i came from Discovery Freelancer http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php where it was a lot simpler to grind. theirs only one person thats grinding away at finishing the patch ( good luck " cannon ") but their was one currency. ONE! what was it called : credits.
their was a couple of ways to get it. some very easy, some very hard.
i was part of a mining guild called the Independent Miners Guild (IMG for short.) pirates wanted our credits, bounty hunters couldn't get enough people recruited to collect the credits. and the militaries wanted their fingers in everyone's pie's in the aspect of tolls, taxes, and fees.
mining. it was simple. almost better then STO in that respect and a few others. like one simple currency. and that it was straight up F2P, no P2W. however, paying to keep the server online through donation was encouraged, but not recommended or enforced.
and then theirs the downsides
it was farily easy to see who had credits-on-hand and by a range of how much, how many users were in a particular system, and the names of said users ships. and the lag, omg the lag. it did not help that the server was located somewhere in Europe and i'm living in Michigan.
and it did not help that a particualar group of pirates were always after our group's credits. the bounties did not even put a dent in the problem. it became very fustrating. including the lag. STO has not only gotten to that point, it has surpassed it.
the best part of it all was : i could see how much a pirate had in credits on hand and see where he was at the time. it was also helpful that, for the most part : the devs and admin team ACTUALLY listened to the users rather then listening to a couple of select members. all because the dev's and admin were actual users that actually made their money the same way the rest of the comminuty did.
the best part of it all was the fact that the dev's and admins ACTUALLY listen to the community. instead of the dev's and admin teams here only listening to their group of friends.
here's to hoping STO goes by the way fo CoH's
The young generation has no clue what freedom is. Because they do not know the limit of it.
Disenchanted for all my Characters
Issues i think are main problem is not whether we need a handicap on the fleets but better dailies or missions that give fleet marks, I am a fleet mark grinder, i can run all the mission and get the max. however i find the time that it takes is rediculous for the small amount of fleet marks you recieve. Before season 7, there were dailies that has been removed which crippled the amount of fleet marks per person or fleet would be able to gain. Today i knowest that the federation having 3 left and the klingons only have one. The current mission are yah dull, or require too many people to run which make the wait time unbearable. I waited over an hour just for any fleet mark mission to queue. On top of that i cant say how many time i played them and been like come on we killed everything and the starbase is still standing and only get this much fleet marks. oh and the event times they dont work if your fleet members are scratttered accross the world.
Recommendations:
1. Create daily mission that a Fleets can do for fleet marks a set amount like 30-50
a. completion should be based off completing objectives in the mission
1. have sub-objectives that could fail but if completed increase the amount by 5-10 fleet marks
2. Current mission should have total fleet mark you can recieve explained before you start the mission it so puzzleing how much you gain off them.
3. Make it possible to run current team missions with a choose of reward fleet marks or dilithium...
up date fleet items to make upgrading fleets more appealing. current fleet items are basically lower quality then rare drops and or reputaion tier 2 items. this is also why there is a greater amount of people working on the repution rather there fleet projects.
Looks like the IOR nerfbat has brought up another issue, lack of content.
This has been brought up alot, especially by those that quickly tired of tagging bunnies on New Romulus.
Please answer how tagging bunnies seemed like a good idea?
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.
I wish you guys had been more upfront about this before fleet came out. I'm in a pretty small fleet, and we knew it would be a harder road, but communication prior to fleets coming out seemed to indicate it would still be reasonably doable by even very small fleets, just taking a lot longer.
This really ins't the case, and now most of my fleet isn't playing regularly anymore and I feel stuck in this fleet that is just barely not even T1. Being a small fleet I have what feels, to me at least, a very large investment into the fleet, so just to find another fleet doesn't seem like a good deal. Additionally, since all my resources went into the Fleet and Reputation systems, I don't really feel like I can bring much to a fleet as is.
On the fleet mark earning side of it, I wish there was Fleet Mark content as rewarding as STF content for time spent. The amount of Fleet, or even Romulan, marks and dilithium you get from those activities is a bit meh. At least Romulan Marks can be made easier with epoh tagging.
Hey now New Romulus also gave us enemies with ooooooober grenades that wipe out entire parties of level 50 bridge officers in two hits. It's not all bunnies.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
Hey, wisdom's wisdom whether it comes from a hot dog vendor, Buddha or an apocryphal historical figure.
True enough. Even Bazooka Joe had much to say on things little read.:D
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
So in this massive posting you said "We're not giving this back. Too bad."
Also, this whole thing about "leave your feedback here and we will look over it" was more of a stahl tactic to buy time until you all released something like this, trying to explain why this was done.
Fact is I don't want to wait months while you figure things out. If you make a change this drastic to the game, you need to have something to replace it now...not months from now.
But I have to hand it to you. You got me. You got me good. Got me for plenty of cash. Well played. Don't spend it all in one place.
Got a few of us. Myself included. I won't say how much I have dumped into this game. I stay as I am a die hard Trek fan, have been since I watched TOS when I was a child (won't admit to my age there either). And..."as of now"..STO is the only Trek MMO...I pray that it will change. If another comes out, STO will ghost town faster than Chernobyl. Now as a buisness owner myself, I understand that profit is the key. But when you bend the customer over and give it to him/her over and over and over without giving back? Your doomed to fail.
Or have you NOT seen the numbers playing decline there Dan? Too much is spent on C-Store items (I refuse to call them the "Z" word). And not enough on content.
As much as it pains me to say it, STO is like the Titanic...it's sinking...fast.
If I queue for a fleet mark event and get put into a group where none of them are in my fleet, then it's no different from puging an STF, or S24, or the Mirror event. That is not fleet gameplay, because actually working together as part of a fleet has nothing to do with it, yet I get fleet marks anyway. Doing a fleet starbase alert is no different to me than playing S24, because that's not my starbase I'm defending at all. Repelling saboteurs from the starbase cargo bay might as well be done in the ESD cargo bay for all that it's representative of fleet gameplay.
1) Get rid of fleet marks as a reward for individual missions. Replace them with gear, dil, EC, whatever. Keep the missions themselves, because they're content, but remove fleet marks as a reward.
2) Add fleet marks as a reward for doing content, any content, while teamed with one or more fleet members. Take the mission's expertise reward, divide it by 5, then award that number of fleet marks if teamed up in a full party of fleet mates, 80% if there's four of the same team, 60% for three, and 40% for two. Make this a bonus reward for anything done as a team, whether it's episodes, STFs, mirror event, or anything else. This rewards actually playing together with people in your fleet and makes fleet marks a reward for true fleet gameplay.
I'll repeat this one last time: "fleet events" are not fleet gameplay just because they reward fleet marks.
I wish you guys had been more upfront about this before fleet came out. I'm in a pretty small fleet, and we knew it would be a harder road, but communication prior to fleets coming out seemed to indicate it would still be reasonably doable by even very small fleets, just taking a lot longer.
This really ins't the case, and now most of my fleet isn't playing regularly anymore and I feel stuck in this fleet that is just barely not even T1. Being a small fleet I have what feels, to me at least, a very large investment into the fleet, so just to find another fleet doesn't seem like a good deal. Additionally, since all my resources went into the Fleet and Reputation systems, I don't really feel like I can bring much to a fleet as is.
On the fleet mark earning side of it, I wish there was Fleet Mark content as rewarding as STF content for time spent. The amount of Fleet, or even Romulan, marks and dilithium you get from those activities is a bit meh. At least Romulan Marks can be made easier with epoh tagging.
The fact is, they said the exact OPPOSITE of what they're saying now before Fleet bases launched/as they were launching.
They're line was "oh, smaller fleets will still be fine, it will all even out and not be much harder" Now he wants to say it's "by design"? Lies. Pure and simple.
Captain Jason A. Kendall U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668 90th Special Operations Task Force
1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.
2. We will be adding more Fleet Marks, just not on Foundry missions. We will be making several changes up until the May update in order to bring Fleet Mark earning back in line: including reclassifying the difference between Events and Fleet Actions, Adjusting (increasing/decreasing) Fleet Marks with a focus on giving more Fleet Marks in Fleet Based Events, Possibly merging Fleets, Possibly offering other incentives for Small Fleets.
3. Data shows, most small Fleets are far more starved for Dilithium than they are for Fleet Marks. There is need for both, but more need right now for Dilithium than Fleet Marks - thus today's change. More Fleet Marks are coming - just not in Foundry play.
What I read;
1) I'd rather have the small Fleets pissed off at us than the LARGE 100+ member Fleets.
2) I'm going to go ahead and CRIPPLE the small Fleets, knowing full well there is going to be issues and we've identified solutions and we'll implement those later...maybe.
But it's absolutely critical we hobble the small Fleets, NOW!!!
3) We knew that Dilithium wasn't an issue when we went ahead and slashed rewards from STF's and Daily Missions mere months ago even though that was our justification.
Wow, you guys were right when you said you needed all the Dil you could get!!!
My bad.
I know what I can do to help!
I'll remove Fleet Mark rewards so you'll have a hard time getting BOTH!
Small Fleets = PWNED...TWICE!
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
2) Add fleet marks as a reward for doing content, any content, while teamed with one or more fleet members. Take the mission's expertise cost, divide it by 5, then award that number of fleet marks if teamed up in a full party of fleet mates, 80% if there's four of the same team, 60% for three, and 40% for two. Make this a bonus reward for anything done as a team, whether it's episodes, STFs, mirror event, or anything else. This rewards actually playing together with people in your fleet and makes fleet marks a reward for true fleet gameplay.
I'll repeat this one last time: "fleet events" are not fleet gameplay just because they reward fleet marks.
Thank you.
Fleet missions just have starbases. Nothing to do with fleets.
Your numbers are skewed crypic. Yes, fleets are more starved for dil than fleet marks, but that is because the crazy ratio between them. 4k fleet marks and 300k dil for one project. Gee, I wonder which one is going to take more time to fil.
Your goal is to make money, plain and simple. What you have done is remove a large potential for that. See, a small fleet is much more prone to spend money on dil to complete a fleet project sooner rather than grind for it. I never mind dropping 10-20 bucks here and there to fill out a huge dil quota in my small fleet. Large fleets are MUCH less prone to do that when they have so many members and don?t have a potential problem filling these projects in a shorter time frame. Now, there isn?t a real reason to buy dil because with soooo many more ways to get dil than fleet marks, I might as well not buy any because I?ll have the dil filled before I even get close to filling the FM.
I have a fleet of 2 active people, me and my brother. I don?t want to be in a large fleet and I don?t want other people in my fleet. He and I have slowly grinded (ground?) our way to a tier 3 shipyard over the last few months. I am very sick of the argument that we don?t deserve to get fleet stuff with only 2 people. I disagree. We have worked harder to grind this TRIBBLE out than anyone with a larger fleet has. We have earned it.
So now the TRIBBLE I am hearing is that they are going to tie FMs exclusively to 5+ man fleet actions or events. Well that is just perfect. Anything else you want to do to TRIBBLE us small fleets over?
I don?t want to do STFs. I don?t care about STFs. I don?t want to group with people. I don?t want to socialize. I don?t want to join a larger fleet so I can hear ESD chat everywhere I go. I don?t want to play with other people. I don?t play this game to socialize. I play this game to have my starship, outfit it the way I want, and go PvP. I have NO interest in PvE content. I?ll do it as a means to an end, but every time you patch, you make that end get farther and farther away. Stop forcing me to play with other people. I am sick of trying to convince myself of staying after every patch you do.
Again, I don?t want to do STFs, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to socialize, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to join a large fleet, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to quit, but you are trying REALLY hard to make me.
Just take my money and stop taking away the things I can accomplish solo.
Have been here since F2P began, and never envisioned myself not liking this game. I am in an under 25 fleet and have made alot of friends and enjoyed the game. I am going to try and explain my view, and then where I see this all going. I have spent money in the game, and bought extra char spots etc, and in the begining wondered how many different characters I'd get to VA, was working on 6, 3 at VA, great!
Then the fleet system was introduced and I was gungho, but at the same time knew I'd be working say half and half, new VA's and new fleet projects now being my new goals, and never had a problem with that trade off, made new friends and was happy, though working less on new chars. Soon the costs of fleet projects had me working 'the system' with 'clickies' to keep up, still doing STF missions with fleet, but really working hard when on alone for the fleet.
Then the reputation system hits and now the game becomes a second job, because hell yes I wanted tier 5 and all the goodies, as do we all, so fleet projects stalled. Get myself to tier 5, and that is alot of work, and cost, but feeling good about it, so start a KDF player and begin its rise to tier 5, now doing daily repeatable stuff to help fleet, and my dil costs. At that point I know its going to be a huge climb, but I am very happy with game, fleet and friends.
Then today happens, and for first time, I realise I am starting to dislike the changes being made to the game, and wonder who actually cares if I enjoy the game or not, so long as I spend money.
Now sure the fleet marks thing hurts, but I can live with it, but the amount of work needed to get one char to tier 5, maybe lets make it scale down cost wise for second and third etc characters so I can once again dream of having 5-6 chars at VA with tier five rep, because really, all I see me doing is riding one char to its best now, because of the costs and the grind.
I do not see new players to the game staying long, when they begin to understand the amount of work they will need to do, too even get to my point, let alone a tier 3 starbase, and even if they do stay, most will just be fodder for the HUGE fleet they joined, making provisions for the high ranking fleet bosses.
I love the game, but I don't see the changes made as being for the good of the game, I don't think its been well thought out. I've played MUD's in the past, and many of those died out, because no new blood came in that stayed, because the old blood controlled the game, had the best clan houses, and the best eq, and controlled the masses. Really, as a noob do you think they are going to ride out the fleet base, the rep system and the grind to get what they want, or join a huge fleet to get it?
For the good of the game, come up with something that lets newer or smaller fleets the ability to grow, and players still have several characters to try out and play and not feel like a grind, I came to live star trek, not grind.
1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.
2. We will be adding more Fleet Marks, just not on Foundry missions. We will be making several changes up until the May update in order to bring Fleet Mark earning back in line: including reclassifying the difference between Events and Fleet Actions, Adjusting (increasing/decreasing) Fleet Marks with a focus on giving more Fleet Marks in Fleet Based Events, Possibly merging Fleets, Possibly offering other incentives for Small Fleets.
3. Data shows, most small Fleets are far more starved for Dilithium than they are for Fleet Marks. There is need for both, but more need right now for Dilithium than Fleet Marks - thus today's change. More Fleet Marks are coming - just not in Foundry play.
I have a suggestion for all resource requirements for the Fleet Starbases that is actually based on most a logical/scientific/business related theory:
y=mx+b
a.k.a.
Total Cost =Variable Cost(x)+Fixed Cost
There should be a fixed cost for each "mission" and a variable cost based on the number of members in the fleet.
For instance:
Total Cost of dilithium for a SB mission could be = 10,000 + 500 (per fleet member)
A fleet of 25 would then have a cost of 10,000 + 12,500 = 22,500
while a fleet of 2,000 would have a cost of 10,000 + 1,000,000 = 1,010,000
These numbers would still be to the advantage of a larger fleet, but would make it more possible for a smaller fleet to have a more reasonable chance of progression.
Is it a possible side-effect of F2P that an MMO might make more money off churning new players than retaining loyal ones?
It would explain many curious decisions in more than one F2P MMO. Just a thought.
This is what believe as well. I haven't spent much on this game in awhile being a LTS but if a new F2P person comes in they of course want to have more stuffz like the next guy and may fork over $$$ faster.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
There is one fact, most fleet mark missions are boring and repetitive, on some are even doomed to fail whatever you do in a pug with too many low level players, for example: fleet alert, borg and 3 commanders and lowers level players, doomed from the start with 3 players dead most of the time (can't fault them they were facing borgs and equiped/deady for them). This exemple is from personnal experience and believe me, there were 2 discouraged player in that particular instance since it was their first fleet alert mission and such a fail was disheartening.
Removing fleet mark from the foundry unilaterally and without much communication before hand is only alienating your player base and causing a lot of uproar and flaming just because most are surprise. Like someone said in an earlier post, a lot don't even know where to check patch notes and changes like this just surprise and pest them of.
You need to reintroduce a way to make more fleet mark and not from those boring repetitive event. And if you insist on keeping those missions augment the fleet mark reward in them.
Fleet marks are the main way for most player to get fleet credit. We have a tier 4 Starbase and we have reached tier 3 embassy but we're holding back embassy upgrade because of the cost and difficulty of getting fleet mark and dilitium which we keep to finish tier 4 projects and getting up to tier 5 shipyard soon after. Embassy at this point is only a drag on resources and will be done after the other starbase project are done.
As for dilitium, we can get enough, refining cap and clashing with reputation system for equipment is more a problem than dilitium availability. So if anything a raise in dilitium refining limit per day would be best but I don't think we can hope any change on that point.
The other solution for dilitium would be to reduce the cost in dilitium for equipment. 32k to 34.5k dilitium for each piece of the maco, omega and other top level sets mean you have to grind between 96000 to 103500 dilitium, or if you divise by 8k per day, 12 to 13 days or almost 2 weeks strait of concentrating all your dilitium income into that with a single character. Add up weapons cost, fleet or romulan weapons, ground kit etc. No wonder why dilitium get hard to get for fleet projects we need it for almost everything now.
Hope this was constructive and will help to make you realize that changes like that at the last moment and without much communication just make people angry and making people angry is always unproductive and causes problems, headaches and the likes more than anything else.
Jamal : Tactical space specialist. USS Bug Warrior and many others
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
Very nice.
Eliminate bugs would be a better target instead of making momentous changes without asking the players whether they want it that way.
Cryptic / PW should know that the players decides what they want to spend money in and what they want.
Drastically increase the rewards of Fleet events such as Colony invasion etc. would be a start and that had to come quite fast (and please not only by 5 to 10 marks).
You finally removes 50 fleet marks for an average playtime of 20-30 minutes in an IOR - then give us a suitable replacement for that - NOW.
I have a suggestion for all resource requirements for the Fleet Starbases that is actually based on most a logical/scientific/business related theory:
y=mx+b
a.k.a.
Total Cost =Variable Cost(x)+Fixed Cost
There should be a fixed cost for each "mission" and a variable cost based on the number of members in the fleet.
For instance:
Total Cost of dilithium for a SB mission could be = 10,000 + 500 (per fleet member)
A fleet of 25 would then have a cost of 10,000 + 12,500 = 22,500
while a fleet of 2,000 would have a cost of 10,000 + 1,000,000 = 1,010,000
These numbers would still be to the advantage of a larger fleet, but would make it more possible for a smaller fleet to have a more reasonable chance of progression.
Great Idea... If only they would listen.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
pvp is what many would consider to be a "fleet based activity" yet since day one it has been neglected in the rewards department for fleet marks.
Remember when starbases were supposed to play a part in PVP? Before they turned into a grind and zen cash cow?
5v5 queues really don't spell epic PVP for Fleets nor does it provide an incentive enough to go wage war on a large scale.
Having to defend your Starbase from an enemy fleet would have been epic! Risk and rewards, winner and losers. Winning in PVP might have meant something more than just a quick e-peen measurement contest.
No greater way to effect diplomacy and politics than razing player owned facilities and introducing al to the vacuum of space.
When starbases failed to be considered in PVP was when I bounced from the game last time. Now after having no characters, PVP is meaningless but I digress.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
IMO, biggest mistake from day 1 was allowing fleets with 15 to 20 players the ability to even get a starbase. What Cryptic should have done is made the starbase everyone enjoys now unlockable only after people grew to have 25+ members. Until you got 25+ members, you could only fully develop a listening post to tier 3, which could only get you tier 3 fleet ships, at the most. That makes way more sense than just having the same resource requirements for everybody no matter the fleet size and go the easy way when small fleets complain by just saying deal with it or join a larger fleet. Then, once the merge fleet mechanics was introduced, 4 small fleets, for example, could decide to collectively build a big star base. Alternatively, the fleet leaders of a small fleet with a tier 3 listening post could choose to upgrade their listening post to a starbase (if they met the requirement of having 25+ members).
Edit: you could even throw in incentives for being in a small fleet and maxing out your listening post. Listening posts with military tier maxed out get the best stealth ships, whereas the largest fleets with tier 5 military maxed out get the most powerful ships, for example.
Fleets should have been kept social... under 25 members.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Comments
I know its not an mmo but the new trek game comes out april 23rd and at least it will provide and alternative to this grind fest. So who knows maybe I can get my trek fix that way.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
^ this right here is a straight up lie.
i came from Discovery Freelancer http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php where it was a lot simpler to grind. theirs only one person thats grinding away at finishing the patch ( good luck " cannon ") but their was one currency. ONE! what was it called : credits.
their was a couple of ways to get it. some very easy, some very hard.
i was part of a mining guild called the Independent Miners Guild (IMG for short.) pirates wanted our credits, bounty hunters couldn't get enough people recruited to collect the credits. and the militaries wanted their fingers in everyone's pie's in the aspect of tolls, taxes, and fees.
mining. it was simple. almost better then STO in that respect and a few others. like one simple currency. and that it was straight up F2P, no P2W. however, paying to keep the server online through donation was encouraged, but not recommended or enforced.
and then theirs the downsides
it was farily easy to see who had credits-on-hand and by a range of how much, how many users were in a particular system, and the names of said users ships. and the lag, omg the lag. it did not help that the server was located somewhere in Europe and i'm living in Michigan.
and it did not help that a particualar group of pirates were always after our group's credits. the bounties did not even put a dent in the problem. it became very fustrating. including the lag. STO has not only gotten to that point, it has surpassed it.
the best part of it all was : i could see how much a pirate had in credits on hand and see where he was at the time. it was also helpful that, for the most part : the devs and admin team ACTUALLY listened to the users rather then listening to a couple of select members. all because the dev's and admin were actual users that actually made their money the same way the rest of the comminuty did.
the best part of it all was the fact that the dev's and admins ACTUALLY listen to the community. instead of the dev's and admin teams here only listening to their group of friends.
here's to hoping STO goes by the way fo CoH's
The young generation has no clue what freedom is. Because they do not know the limit of it.
Disenchanted for all my Characters
Recommendations:
1. Create daily mission that a Fleets can do for fleet marks a set amount like 30-50
a. completion should be based off completing objectives in the mission
1. have sub-objectives that could fail but if completed increase the amount by 5-10 fleet marks
2. Current mission should have total fleet mark you can recieve explained before you start the mission it so puzzleing how much you gain off them.
3. Make it possible to run current team missions with a choose of reward fleet marks or dilithium...
up date fleet items to make upgrading fleets more appealing. current fleet items are basically lower quality then rare drops and or reputaion tier 2 items. this is also why there is a greater amount of people working on the repution rather there fleet projects.
This has been brought up alot, especially by those that quickly tired of tagging bunnies on New Romulus.
Please answer how tagging bunnies seemed like a good idea?
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPCPIrHOeDc
I wish you guys had been more upfront about this before fleet came out. I'm in a pretty small fleet, and we knew it would be a harder road, but communication prior to fleets coming out seemed to indicate it would still be reasonably doable by even very small fleets, just taking a lot longer.
This really ins't the case, and now most of my fleet isn't playing regularly anymore and I feel stuck in this fleet that is just barely not even T1. Being a small fleet I have what feels, to me at least, a very large investment into the fleet, so just to find another fleet doesn't seem like a good deal. Additionally, since all my resources went into the Fleet and Reputation systems, I don't really feel like I can bring much to a fleet as is.
On the fleet mark earning side of it, I wish there was Fleet Mark content as rewarding as STF content for time spent. The amount of Fleet, or even Romulan, marks and dilithium you get from those activities is a bit meh. At least Romulan Marks can be made easier with epoh tagging.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
True enough. Even Bazooka Joe had much to say on things little read.:D
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Got a few of us. Myself included. I won't say how much I have dumped into this game. I stay as I am a die hard Trek fan, have been since I watched TOS when I was a child (won't admit to my age there either). And..."as of now"..STO is the only Trek MMO...I pray that it will change. If another comes out, STO will ghost town faster than Chernobyl. Now as a buisness owner myself, I understand that profit is the key. But when you bend the customer over and give it to him/her over and over and over without giving back? Your doomed to fail.
Or have you NOT seen the numbers playing decline there Dan? Too much is spent on C-Store items (I refuse to call them the "Z" word). And not enough on content.
As much as it pains me to say it, STO is like the Titanic...it's sinking...fast.
"Fleet events" are not fleet gameplay.
"Fleet events" are not fleet gameplay.
If I queue for a fleet mark event and get put into a group where none of them are in my fleet, then it's no different from puging an STF, or S24, or the Mirror event. That is not fleet gameplay, because actually working together as part of a fleet has nothing to do with it, yet I get fleet marks anyway. Doing a fleet starbase alert is no different to me than playing S24, because that's not my starbase I'm defending at all. Repelling saboteurs from the starbase cargo bay might as well be done in the ESD cargo bay for all that it's representative of fleet gameplay.
1) Get rid of fleet marks as a reward for individual missions. Replace them with gear, dil, EC, whatever. Keep the missions themselves, because they're content, but remove fleet marks as a reward.
2) Add fleet marks as a reward for doing content, any content, while teamed with one or more fleet members. Take the mission's expertise reward, divide it by 5, then award that number of fleet marks if teamed up in a full party of fleet mates, 80% if there's four of the same team, 60% for three, and 40% for two. Make this a bonus reward for anything done as a team, whether it's episodes, STFs, mirror event, or anything else. This rewards actually playing together with people in your fleet and makes fleet marks a reward for true fleet gameplay.
I'll repeat this one last time: "fleet events" are not fleet gameplay just because they reward fleet marks.
The fact is, they said the exact OPPOSITE of what they're saying now before Fleet bases launched/as they were launching.
They're line was "oh, smaller fleets will still be fine, it will all even out and not be much harder" Now he wants to say it's "by design"? Lies. Pure and simple.
U.S.S. Indianapolis NCC-94668
90th Special Operations Task Force
What I read;
1) I'd rather have the small Fleets pissed off at us than the LARGE 100+ member Fleets.
2) I'm going to go ahead and CRIPPLE the small Fleets, knowing full well there is going to be issues and we've identified solutions and we'll implement those later...maybe.
But it's absolutely critical we hobble the small Fleets, NOW!!!
3) We knew that Dilithium wasn't an issue when we went ahead and slashed rewards from STF's and Daily Missions mere months ago even though that was our justification.
Wow, you guys were right when you said you needed all the Dil you could get!!!
My bad.
I know what I can do to help!
I'll remove Fleet Mark rewards so you'll have a hard time getting BOTH!
Small Fleets = PWNED...TWICE!
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
Thank you.
Fleet missions just have starbases. Nothing to do with fleets.
It would explain many curious decisions in more than one F2P MMO. Just a thought.
Your goal is to make money, plain and simple. What you have done is remove a large potential for that. See, a small fleet is much more prone to spend money on dil to complete a fleet project sooner rather than grind for it. I never mind dropping 10-20 bucks here and there to fill out a huge dil quota in my small fleet. Large fleets are MUCH less prone to do that when they have so many members and don?t have a potential problem filling these projects in a shorter time frame. Now, there isn?t a real reason to buy dil because with soooo many more ways to get dil than fleet marks, I might as well not buy any because I?ll have the dil filled before I even get close to filling the FM.
I have a fleet of 2 active people, me and my brother. I don?t want to be in a large fleet and I don?t want other people in my fleet. He and I have slowly grinded (ground?) our way to a tier 3 shipyard over the last few months. I am very sick of the argument that we don?t deserve to get fleet stuff with only 2 people. I disagree. We have worked harder to grind this TRIBBLE out than anyone with a larger fleet has. We have earned it.
So now the TRIBBLE I am hearing is that they are going to tie FMs exclusively to 5+ man fleet actions or events. Well that is just perfect. Anything else you want to do to TRIBBLE us small fleets over?
I don?t want to do STFs. I don?t care about STFs. I don?t want to group with people. I don?t want to socialize. I don?t want to join a larger fleet so I can hear ESD chat everywhere I go. I don?t want to play with other people. I don?t play this game to socialize. I play this game to have my starship, outfit it the way I want, and go PvP. I have NO interest in PvE content. I?ll do it as a means to an end, but every time you patch, you make that end get farther and farther away. Stop forcing me to play with other people. I am sick of trying to convince myself of staying after every patch you do.
Again, I don?t want to do STFs, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to socialize, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to join a large fleet, but you?re trying to make me.
I don?t want to quit, but you are trying REALLY hard to make me.
Just take my money and stop taking away the things I can accomplish solo.
Then the fleet system was introduced and I was gungho, but at the same time knew I'd be working say half and half, new VA's and new fleet projects now being my new goals, and never had a problem with that trade off, made new friends and was happy, though working less on new chars. Soon the costs of fleet projects had me working 'the system' with 'clickies' to keep up, still doing STF missions with fleet, but really working hard when on alone for the fleet.
Then the reputation system hits and now the game becomes a second job, because hell yes I wanted tier 5 and all the goodies, as do we all, so fleet projects stalled. Get myself to tier 5, and that is alot of work, and cost, but feeling good about it, so start a KDF player and begin its rise to tier 5, now doing daily repeatable stuff to help fleet, and my dil costs. At that point I know its going to be a huge climb, but I am very happy with game, fleet and friends.
Then today happens, and for first time, I realise I am starting to dislike the changes being made to the game, and wonder who actually cares if I enjoy the game or not, so long as I spend money.
Now sure the fleet marks thing hurts, but I can live with it, but the amount of work needed to get one char to tier 5, maybe lets make it scale down cost wise for second and third etc characters so I can once again dream of having 5-6 chars at VA with tier five rep, because really, all I see me doing is riding one char to its best now, because of the costs and the grind.
I do not see new players to the game staying long, when they begin to understand the amount of work they will need to do, too even get to my point, let alone a tier 3 starbase, and even if they do stay, most will just be fodder for the HUGE fleet they joined, making provisions for the high ranking fleet bosses.
I love the game, but I don't see the changes made as being for the good of the game, I don't think its been well thought out. I've played MUD's in the past, and many of those died out, because no new blood came in that stayed, because the old blood controlled the game, had the best clan houses, and the best eq, and controlled the masses. Really, as a noob do you think they are going to ride out the fleet base, the rep system and the grind to get what they want, or join a huge fleet to get it?
For the good of the game, come up with something that lets newer or smaller fleets the ability to grow, and players still have several characters to try out and play and not feel like a grind, I came to live star trek, not grind.
pvp is what many would consider to be a "fleet based activity" yet since day one it has been neglected in the rewards department for fleet marks.
Do you even Science Bro?
Anything can be considered a "fleet based activity", because fleets can range from 1 person to 500 people....
You are like many other Executive Producers that I know (and yes, I have worked in the video game business).
"Let them eat cake......."
"I may give you water later....."....... in a few months
Would you stop with the power trip nerfing? Gradual changes are better than these shocks to the game economy.
Thx
Locutus
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 2 Embassy
http://stofleetdt.com
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
So I fully expect that to be deemed the new "fleet activity" since it makes the least sense.
"We are smart." - Grebnedlog
Member of Alliance Central Command/boq botlhra'ghom
True, but your fleet only matters to Cryptic if is 100+ players, apparently.
I have a suggestion for all resource requirements for the Fleet Starbases that is actually based on most a logical/scientific/business related theory:
y=mx+b
a.k.a.
Total Cost =Variable Cost(x)+Fixed Cost
There should be a fixed cost for each "mission" and a variable cost based on the number of members in the fleet.
For instance:
Total Cost of dilithium for a SB mission could be = 10,000 + 500 (per fleet member)
A fleet of 25 would then have a cost of 10,000 + 12,500 = 22,500
while a fleet of 2,000 would have a cost of 10,000 + 1,000,000 = 1,010,000
These numbers would still be to the advantage of a larger fleet, but would make it more possible for a smaller fleet to have a more reasonable chance of progression.
Would it surprise you if I said that I was a pvper? still am, when I'm not GRINDING for my fleet base with my 3 friends.
This is what believe as well. I haven't spent much on this game in awhile being a LTS but if a new F2P person comes in they of course want to have more stuffz like the next guy and may fork over $$$ faster.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Removing fleet mark from the foundry unilaterally and without much communication before hand is only alienating your player base and causing a lot of uproar and flaming just because most are surprise. Like someone said in an earlier post, a lot don't even know where to check patch notes and changes like this just surprise and pest them of.
You need to reintroduce a way to make more fleet mark and not from those boring repetitive event. And if you insist on keeping those missions augment the fleet mark reward in them.
Fleet marks are the main way for most player to get fleet credit. We have a tier 4 Starbase and we have reached tier 3 embassy but we're holding back embassy upgrade because of the cost and difficulty of getting fleet mark and dilitium which we keep to finish tier 4 projects and getting up to tier 5 shipyard soon after. Embassy at this point is only a drag on resources and will be done after the other starbase project are done.
As for dilitium, we can get enough, refining cap and clashing with reputation system for equipment is more a problem than dilitium availability. So if anything a raise in dilitium refining limit per day would be best but I don't think we can hope any change on that point.
The other solution for dilitium would be to reduce the cost in dilitium for equipment. 32k to 34.5k dilitium for each piece of the maco, omega and other top level sets mean you have to grind between 96000 to 103500 dilitium, or if you divise by 8k per day, 12 to 13 days or almost 2 weeks strait of concentrating all your dilitium income into that with a single character. Add up weapons cost, fleet or romulan weapons, ground kit etc. No wonder why dilitium get hard to get for fleet projects we need it for almost everything now.
Hope this was constructive and will help to make you realize that changes like that at the last moment and without much communication just make people angry and making people angry is always unproductive and causes problems, headaches and the likes more than anything else.
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
Eliminate bugs would be a better target instead of making momentous changes without asking the players whether they want it that way.
Cryptic / PW should know that the players decides what they want to spend money in and what they want.
Drastically increase the rewards of Fleet events such as Colony invasion etc. would be a start and that had to come quite fast (and please not only by 5 to 10 marks).
You finally removes 50 fleet marks for an average playtime of 20-30 minutes in an IOR - then give us a suitable replacement for that - NOW.
Great Idea... If only they would listen.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Remember when starbases were supposed to play a part in PVP? Before they turned into a grind and zen cash cow?
5v5 queues really don't spell epic PVP for Fleets nor does it provide an incentive enough to go wage war on a large scale.
Having to defend your Starbase from an enemy fleet would have been epic! Risk and rewards, winner and losers. Winning in PVP might have meant something more than just a quick e-peen measurement contest.
No greater way to effect diplomacy and politics than razing player owned facilities and introducing al to the vacuum of space.
When starbases failed to be considered in PVP was when I bounced from the game last time. Now after having no characters, PVP is meaningless but I digress.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Edit: you could even throw in incentives for being in a small fleet and maxing out your listening post. Listening posts with military tier maxed out get the best stealth ships, whereas the largest fleets with tier 5 military maxed out get the most powerful ships, for example.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8