As a relatively new fan to the series, I am curious to hear what many of the long time fans of the Trek franchise dislike so much about JJ-Trek. And I mean honest, detailed complaints. I don't want broad "It was bad" I want to know specifics, because, honestly, I enjoyed JJ-Trek, in fact it is probably what got me interested in going back and getting into it, so I'm really curious to know what the older fans disliked about the film. Again, details, not generalizations.
I can't remember his name, it was super-something or other. He spammed threads about wanting to start a real Starfleet. Real. As in he had access to spaceships. Not even joking.
Wow! how was he going to fund the tactical displays, let alone the whole ship? :rolleyes:
Well Armin Shimmerman said Ferengi are a parody of Jews.
I think that interview might have been on the Late Show with David Letterman...but it could have been on a morning show, I can't remember.
And Klingons for Muslims..and Dominion for Christians? They look pretty confused
Grinding for MkIV epic gear?
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
What I really disliked was that googly-eyed med tech assisting Kirk Jr. into the world. Hate to base people on their looks but it just reeked of a stupid, stupid, stupid move whoever thought the movie needed googly-eyes.
Rest of the movie played out well enough that I finished watching it but that beginning almost made me stop and go do something else.
Oh and those stupid cadet hats. Who the **** thinks up uniforms for these movies? LadyGaga's bra designer?
One thing I noticed and not many have referenced was the use of the tiny Starfleet symbols on the uniforms. Made them almost scaley in appearance and could be interpreted as a nod to CADPAT and MARPAT. Both digital camo patterns are built around a symbol; Maple Leaf for CADPAT and the Eagle, Globe & Anchor for MARPAT.
[Edit: Added link to tiny Starfleet symbols. Added Eagle. Was thinking it but did not type it in the first time.]
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I liked the new Trek...It was a bout thime the yrebooted Trek.
I remember watching First Contact commentary, and them talking about wanting to do a Crisis on infinite Earth kind of thing and reboot the franchise.
They had to reboot Trek to many Fans getting mad over canon inconsistencies, and raging over stuff, and the producers got tired of having to go look back and keep track of canon. Now they have a fresh start and can make new stuff instead of worrying about canon, that's why comics reboot every few years.
I like trek fan, I hate trek fans, they always ruin Trek for me....like people Bill Shatner said it best when it came to fans.
no oddly enough Klingons with their battle prowess are modelled after Greeks, specifically Spartans... i think... i could be wrong.
Dominion i have no idea... Romulans definitely modelled after Romans though
TOS Klingons were more like Eurasian aka Russian with the Cold War thing represented in UFP vs. KDF. Since then their culture seems to be more Japanese along the lines of Samurai and their adherence to Bushido. Throw in some Chinese references to weaponry, also.
Disagree they are Muslim as Klingons drink alot.
The helmet which is use in STO looks Greek, though. The ST website shows another version of that helmet which is on the cover of an upcoming ST comic.
Greeks, in western culture, were more considered to be Philosophers, Traders, Tutors. The Spartans exemplified the Warrior, of course but they were not the norm for Greek culture as a whole. They were the only Greeks to not have city walls as they considered their fighting men to be the best defense.
Maybe devs and canon checkers for the IP holders are jumping onto the popularity wagon which was been rolling since the movie 300 came out and made things Thlingon, Lacedaemon.
"This is... Qo'noS!"
Come to think of it, now I think they directly tried to reference that. Funny how the original Lacedaemons thought themselves to be philosophers first and warriors second. It was one of the best kept secrets and history remembers them best as brutes and rough people. Oh, the irony.
Laconic is a term that comes from their way of speech which was "to the point"... bet ya didn't see that coming. Their terse use of language also supports their being philosophers and explains why we in the KDf got our **** together.
The Ferengi strike me more to be akin to merchants from the former Paris of the Middle East.
The Dominion could be Armenian possibly? Kim Kardassian's mom looks Cardassian irl.
Captain Kirk seems to be the embodiment of Mom, Apple Pie aka America which is very Christian in origin.
Leonard Nimoy talks of his famous Vulcan Salute which comes from use in a Jewish blessing so I guess Vulcans got that covered.
Romulans and Remans are Roman. It supports Vulcans being Jewish as the first Christians appeared in Rome as a Jewish cult and later, influenced their empire, thus maintaining a connection. Messy to explain but an association inherent.
Theory-crafting, in cultural terms, makes me feel uncomfortable though and I apologize if anyone feels offended.
This would explain why Gene Roddenberry refrained from citing sources directly and on the record.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
As a relatively new fan to the series, I am curious to hear what many of the long time fans of the Trek franchise dislike so much about JJ-Trek. And I mean honest, detailed complaints. I don't want broad "It was bad" I want to know specifics, because, honestly, I enjoyed JJ-Trek, in fact it is probably what got me interested in going back and getting into it, so I'm really curious to know what the older fans disliked about the film. Again, details, not generalizations.
Aside from science even a six year old (outside of the American south anyway) knew was bad, JJ Trek was pretty much on par with the old action oriented Trek movies. Just with more flash.
Trek fans hate everything introduced into Trek until they no longer have a chance to hate it. TNG was reviled when it started and only universally loved when it ended. Trekkies are the original Unpleasable Fanbase.
Kinda out of place since I never seen Starfleet personnel with headgear before until JJTrek made it sewn.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
no oddly enough Klingons with their battle prowess are modelled after Greeks, specifically Spartans... i think... i could be wrong.
Dominion i have no idea... Romulans definitely modelled after Romans though
I'd say Klingons are based off Spartans and Samurai, Jem Hadar are probably based off the samurai, be cause samurai believed they were already dead, which is the Jem Hadar point of view in trek
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Those were TV series and Star wars never made any as there were 6 of TMP 4 TNG and 1 JJ.I have't heard a thing about JJ doing stars wars movie.
They CBS will never bring Trek of the TNG era back.It is CBS not Paramount you should write to.You won't get the attention on this site as of V down there.The Head Admin wrote to Mr Redstone himself and got reply back but it is all on that V site.
We having been covering everything Trek for 11 years now.
You are missing the point!
I WANT A BRAND NEW CAST, A BRAND NEW SHIP IN THE (BEST) ruddy PRIME UNIVERSE
Disclaimer : Capitals for emphasis and are not shouting
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
I'd say Klingons are based off Spartans and Samurai, Jem Hadar are probably based off the samurai, be cause samurai believed they were already dead, which is the Jem Hadar point of view in trek
Nah, I'd go with the Vikings and Mongols.... The TOS KDF did a lot more looting and pillaging than most Samurai and Spartans would be comfortable with.
Aside from science even a six year old (outside of the American south anyway) knew was bad, JJ Trek was pretty much on par with the old action oriented Trek movies. Just with more flash.
Trek fans hate everything introduced into Trek until they no longer have a chance to hate it. TNG was reviled when it started and only universally loved when it ended. Trekkies are the original Unpleasable Fanbase.
Most "dedicated" fans seem to be. Any change of any kind is automatically "bad". You should hear some of the nerdrage inspired by the last two alien movies. It's pretty much the same as what people said about Nu-Trek.
As a relatively new fan to the series, I am curious to hear what many of the long time fans of the Trek franchise dislike so much about JJ-Trek. And I mean honest, detailed complaints. I don't want broad "It was bad" I want to know specifics, because, honestly, I enjoyed JJ-Trek, in fact it is probably what got me interested in going back and getting into it, so I'm really curious to know what the older fans disliked about the film. Again, details, not generalizations.
Mostly it seems to be the TNG fans that don't like it, since most complaints seem to be that the movie doesn't reflect things that came from TNG not TOS.
You are missing the point!
I WANT A BRAND NEW CAST, A BRAND NEW SHIP IN THE (BEST) ruddy PRIME UNIVERSE
Disclaimer : Capitals for emphasis and are not shouting
I ma afraid to say no I ma not as of the costs.CBS can make 10 episodes of CSI for 1 episode of TNG.It is simply a matter of money look at the shows that are out moslty crime dramas and reality TV.Les Moonves is not big on bringing back Trek series.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
I ma afraid to say no I ma not as of the costs.CBS can make 10 episodes of CSI for 1 episode of TNG.It is simply a matter of money look at the shows that are out moslty crime dramas and reality TV.Les Moonves is not big on bringing back Trek series.
Every genre has its fanbase. I expect a new Star Trek series would interest quite a lot of sc-fi fans.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
For my 2 cents. I think JJ jumping ship for Star Wars is probably a better fit. Besides Star Wars has become a bit of a joke. Prequels were just badly written and badly acted for the most part, tv specials, Clone wars, Ewok series, Droid series...
I would see a JJ Star Wars depending on what it was about. The 2 spin offs however I think is the same thing depends on what they choose to do.
Star Trek Into Darkness I will see as I like how this villain is turning out. I was not much of a fan of the 09 film. I would rather see a jump back to the Prime universe after the trilogy is complete.
I am as big a Trek fan as anyone here. I can name an episode of any of the series within 5 seconds of seeing it run at any point of the show. I am a big backer of canon.
I am not a STO player, however, who wanted to simulate life as an ensign, I do not care to have my character have "relationships" with NPCs or holograms.
I think the 2009 Star Trek is a worthy part of the franchise... as a matter of fact, anything that gets newer, younger blood into Trek is a good thing... and I look forward to JJ's latest and the remaining one after that... even if it merges Star Trek and Star Wars into a single universe:)
For those die-hard Star Trek fans who, ironically as Star Trek philosophically promotes diversity and open-mindedness (IDIC), can't stomach the JJ films... here is something for you!
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
wanting to expand his project to a wider audience isn't a bad thing. And bashing him for it isn't fair.
If the Mouse had it from the beginning they would have done the same thing. Only THEIR VERSION would have been completely 'washed' and distilled to the point where even their coreography would have seemed ridiculous.
In all seriousness, if they HAD done that long ago they would have been bashed continually for their tacky and campy attempts at expanding a fantasy world like Star Wars.
Not saying that but there is a problem with George Lucas. He wanted to distinguish himself away from Hollywood back in the day. He did succeed but there is something to what he lost he became that thing he was fighting a corporate entity one that thought to expand it not necessarily for the good of the franchise but to earn money. I have been a fan of Star Wars since I was a small kid, but even the Blu Ray release of the older movies changed things for the worse for artistic means. Such as the climax of Vader's story in Return of the Jedi. I could take only so many changes but changing that climax by inserting a crappy line is what ruined the intensity of the film.
Jar Jar Binks?
Ewoks? Originally it was Wookies but changed for children.
Ewok TV special and series if I recall.
Droid series which I can recall on TV (sci fi channel back in the nineties in the early morning)
The thing is for creativity you need people who do tell you no that does not sound like a good idea. George did not have that for the prequels.
Your point about Disney TRIBBLE it up if they had it is moot. We have no idea what they are going to do with it. Right now their Marvel works are doing quite well for the most part. With Abrams the screen writer from Toy Story 3 and other pretty good films penning the script. I also read a report that Abrams wanted to do it right and do right to the fans. Which is not a bad thing at all unless it is too much (Looking at you anime industry). Also a bit of new news was that they wanted to make the Star Wars universe more expansive with 2 SPIN OFF Films. Not a rumor but confirmed.
Even colonial (like what the people who would subsequently become know as americans wore, during the civil war - except THOSE hats were even higher and more 'floppy' for lack of a better description).
Was thinking that at one point but the Japanese look was too prominent.
Yeah, the civil war hat was known as the Kepi which originated in the French military.
It is still in use today but is a bit more modern in style and is known as the Battle Dress Uniform, Cap aka Patrol Cap. First time I put one on, I thought it reminded me of the civil war.
"Dammit J'mpok! I'm a Warrior, not a Worrier!"
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities.Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Comments
And Klingons for Muslims..and Dominion for Christians? They look pretty confused
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Rest of the movie played out well enough that I finished watching it but that beginning almost made me stop and go do something else.
Oh and those stupid cadet hats. Who the **** thinks up uniforms for these movies? LadyGaga's bra designer?
One thing I noticed and not many have referenced was the use of the tiny Starfleet symbols on the uniforms. Made them almost scaley in appearance and could be interpreted as a nod to CADPAT and MARPAT. Both digital camo patterns are built around a symbol; Maple Leaf for CADPAT and the Eagle, Globe & Anchor for MARPAT.
[Edit: Added link to tiny Starfleet symbols. Added Eagle. Was thinking it but did not type it in the first time.]
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I remember watching First Contact commentary, and them talking about wanting to do a Crisis on infinite Earth kind of thing and reboot the franchise.
They had to reboot Trek to many Fans getting mad over canon inconsistencies, and raging over stuff, and the producers got tired of having to go look back and keep track of canon. Now they have a fresh start and can make new stuff instead of worrying about canon, that's why comics reboot every few years.
I like trek fan, I hate trek fans, they always ruin Trek for me....like people
Bill Shatner said it best when it came to fans.
TOS Klingons were more like Eurasian aka Russian with the Cold War thing represented in UFP vs. KDF. Since then their culture seems to be more Japanese along the lines of Samurai and their adherence to Bushido. Throw in some Chinese references to weaponry, also.
Disagree they are Muslim as Klingons drink alot.
The helmet which is use in STO looks Greek, though. The ST website shows another version of that helmet which is on the cover of an upcoming ST comic.
Greeks, in western culture, were more considered to be Philosophers, Traders, Tutors. The Spartans exemplified the Warrior, of course but they were not the norm for Greek culture as a whole. They were the only Greeks to not have city walls as they considered their fighting men to be the best defense.
Maybe devs and canon checkers for the IP holders are jumping onto the popularity wagon which was been rolling since the movie 300 came out and made things Thlingon, Lacedaemon.
"This is... Qo'noS!"
Come to think of it, now I think they directly tried to reference that. Funny how the original Lacedaemons thought themselves to be philosophers first and warriors second. It was one of the best kept secrets and history remembers them best as brutes and rough people. Oh, the irony.
Laconic is a term that comes from their way of speech which was "to the point"... bet ya didn't see that coming. Their terse use of language also supports their being philosophers and explains why we in the KDf got our **** together.
The Ferengi strike me more to be akin to merchants from the former Paris of the Middle East.
The Dominion could be Armenian possibly? Kim Kardassian's mom looks Cardassian irl.
Captain Kirk seems to be the embodiment of Mom, Apple Pie aka America which is very Christian in origin.
Leonard Nimoy talks of his famous Vulcan Salute which comes from use in a Jewish blessing so I guess Vulcans got that covered.
Romulans and Remans are Roman. It supports Vulcans being Jewish as the first Christians appeared in Rome as a Jewish cult and later, influenced their empire, thus maintaining a connection. Messy to explain but an association inherent.
Theory-crafting, in cultural terms, makes me feel uncomfortable though and I apologize if anyone feels offended.
This would explain why Gene Roddenberry refrained from citing sources directly and on the record.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Aside from science even a six year old (outside of the American south anyway) knew was bad, JJ Trek was pretty much on par with the old action oriented Trek movies. Just with more flash.
Trek fans hate everything introduced into Trek until they no longer have a chance to hate it. TNG was reviled when it started and only universally loved when it ended. Trekkies are the original Unpleasable Fanbase.
Looks Imperial Japanese circa WWII.
Kinda out of place since I never seen Starfleet personnel with headgear before until JJTrek made it sewn.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I edited my earlier post with the link to the tiny Starfleet symbols on the uniforms.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
I'd say Klingons are based off Spartans and Samurai, Jem Hadar are probably based off the samurai, be cause samurai believed they were already dead, which is the Jem Hadar point of view in trek
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
You are missing the point!
I WANT A BRAND NEW CAST, A BRAND NEW SHIP IN THE (BEST) ruddy PRIME UNIVERSE
Disclaimer : Capitals for emphasis and are not shouting
I hope STO get's better ...
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
Hell if they made it more like Star Wars in 1979 TMP might be more liked than it is and not called The Motionless Picture.
Well Abrams did say he was going to tone that down.
Mostly it seems to be the TNG fans that don't like it, since most complaints seem to be that the movie doesn't reflect things that came from TNG not TOS.
I ma afraid to say no I ma not as of the costs.CBS can make 10 episodes of CSI for 1 episode of TNG.It is simply a matter of money look at the shows that are out moslty crime dramas and reality TV.Les Moonves is not big on bringing back Trek series.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Every genre has its fanbase. I expect a new Star Trek series would interest quite a lot of sc-fi fans.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
I would see a JJ Star Wars depending on what it was about. The 2 spin offs however I think is the same thing depends on what they choose to do.
Star Trek Into Darkness I will see as I like how this villain is turning out. I was not much of a fan of the 09 film. I would rather see a jump back to the Prime universe after the trilogy is complete.
I am not a STO player, however, who wanted to simulate life as an ensign, I do not care to have my character have "relationships" with NPCs or holograms.
I think the 2009 Star Trek is a worthy part of the franchise... as a matter of fact, anything that gets newer, younger blood into Trek is a good thing... and I look forward to JJ's latest and the remaining one after that... even if it merges Star Trek and Star Wars into a single universe:)
For those die-hard Star Trek fans who, ironically as Star Trek philosophically promotes diversity and open-mindedness (IDIC), can't stomach the JJ films... here is something for you!
I don't think I'd go quite that far ...
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Not saying that but there is a problem with George Lucas. He wanted to distinguish himself away from Hollywood back in the day. He did succeed but there is something to what he lost he became that thing he was fighting a corporate entity one that thought to expand it not necessarily for the good of the franchise but to earn money. I have been a fan of Star Wars since I was a small kid, but even the Blu Ray release of the older movies changed things for the worse for artistic means. Such as the climax of Vader's story in Return of the Jedi. I could take only so many changes but changing that climax by inserting a crappy line is what ruined the intensity of the film.
Jar Jar Binks?
Ewoks? Originally it was Wookies but changed for children.
Ewok TV special and series if I recall.
Droid series which I can recall on TV (sci fi channel back in the nineties in the early morning)
The thing is for creativity you need people who do tell you no that does not sound like a good idea. George did not have that for the prequels.
Your point about Disney TRIBBLE it up if they had it is moot. We have no idea what they are going to do with it. Right now their Marvel works are doing quite well for the most part. With Abrams the screen writer from Toy Story 3 and other pretty good films penning the script. I also read a report that Abrams wanted to do it right and do right to the fans. Which is not a bad thing at all unless it is too much (Looking at you anime industry). Also a bit of new news was that they wanted to make the Star Wars universe more expansive with 2 SPIN OFF Films. Not a rumor but confirmed.
Was thinking that at one point but the Japanese look was too prominent.
Yeah, the civil war hat was known as the Kepi which originated in the French military.
It is still in use today but is a bit more modern in style and is known as the Battle Dress Uniform, Cap aka Patrol Cap. First time I put one on, I thought it reminded me of the civil war.
- KDF Ambassador Syon vocalizing her objection to the discussions of possible peace talks with the UFP due to recent Borg and Undine activities. Hegh'bat, Stardate 66588.8
Not as much as he should have. A lot of people forget that old George was so worried that people were taking his pet project away from him and changing so much, he actually made a bet with Steven Spielberg that it would bomb at the box office. :rolleyes: