Ship re-sizing request

drkfrontiers · January 2013

Hi all,

I hope that the devs read this.

Please could you reconsider the relative size of ships and make them feel somewhat more in line with what they are?

Now I know we cannot match it closely but I think that in terms of STO all ship classes appear pretty much the same size.

I believe that it would add significant favor and immersion if ships appeared as:

Size comparison 1

Size Comparison 2

Your ship design are fantastic, they just need to be a little more realistic

Unknown · January 2013

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drkfrontiers · January 2013

True but it still lacks a sense of majesty, for no better word.

If you look at this, and then compare the rough estimate of the Defiant with the Galaxy, you will see the huge deference in length and height of these ships placed next to each other.

I just don't get that feeling of awesomeness when I see a Defiant next to a ship the size of the Galaxy.

Some more: 1, 2, 3, 4

I know its a pipe dream but I have always seen Star Trek ships in a grander scale, that's all.

xiphenon · January 2013

I request a size change of all raider class Bird of Preys. They are to large for their agility. The Heghta or the HoSuS are both as large as a medium sized federation cruiser. They should be in the same level as the defaint.

There are Bird of Preys in canon that are larger (e.g. K'vort). However, these ships are classifed as battle cruisers or raptors than raiders.

lolimpicard · January 2013

Your perception is wrong. That is all.
Fly directly next to another ship and zoom out.

Ships are roughly the right size 90% of the time.

drkfrontiers · January 2013

lolimpicard wrote: »

Your perception is wrong. That is all.
Fly directly next to another ship and zoom out.

Ships are roughly the right size 90% of the time.

Take a defiant and try and position it underneath the Galaxy tail. I only had the Dreadnought available but they are very similar.

1, 2, 3

(Note: Defiant +- 122m vs. Jem'Hadar Dreadnought +- 4500 m. I know we can't have the ratio in the game, but currently its just not realistic.)

The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought a wee bit - bigger. It should be at least twice the size of the Caitian Carrier, and that's still minuscule.

The defiant should be half in size.

Sorry for the rough rendering, but this is how I see it should be for example.

mastergenera1 · January 2013

After looking at the ship chart yea I will agree that the dominion dreadnought is smaller than should be,heck its pretty much the size of the regents flagship(which would be funny if the devs put that in a lockbox as a mirror bortas or neghvar

)

drkfrontiers · January 2013

mastergenera1 wrote: »

After looking at the ship chart yea I will agree that the dominion dreadnought is smaller than should be,heck its pretty much the size of the regents flagship(which would be funny if the devs put that in as a mirror bortas or neghvar )

There are some sweet designs and species to explore

mastergenera1 · January 2013

drkfrontiers wrote: »

There are some sweet designs and species to explore

oh I own the dread just didn't think it was soo big lol

tlamstrike · January 2013

mastergenera1 wrote: »

After looking at the ship chart yea I will agree that the dominion dreadnought is smaller than should be,heck its pretty much the size of the regents flagship(which would be funny if the devs put that in a lockbox as a mirror bortas or neghvar )

The one is STO is fairly close (its about 10% smaller I would say) to the one in the DS9 Episode Valiant (I was teamed with a fleet mate in a Defiant last night so we saw both ships close together a lot).

The 5km long Dreadnought on those images comes from some sloppy scaling from the DS9 finale. At that size it would be longer than the standard Borg cube!

lolimpicard · January 2013

drkfrontiers wrote: »

.. snip ..

From looking at the size chart and your screenshot the Defiant is roughly the right size in comparison to a Galaxy (about the size of the upper roof of the engineering section behind where the saucers neck meets with the lower hull in a Galaxy).

The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought is too small, yes, it would be even bigger than a Vo'Quv - so I understand that.

mariothebros · January 2013

In game, I parked my Ody over a JH Dreadnaught and I found that they pretty much have same length (JH Dreadnaught is 1 mm longer on my screen) but the the Dreadnaught is over twice the width of Ody. I don't know the exact size comparison of Ody and JH Dreadnaught, but from its name, I was expecting JH Dreadnaught to be 1.5 longer than Ody. Overall, I thought JH Dreadnaught would be significantly bigger than Ody, but I still like the design of both Ody and Dreadnaught.

megacharge07 · January 2013

I too would like proper ship scaling, the dreadnought definitely needs to look it's proper size, and Cubes and spheres need to be bigger, I regularly fly face to face with spheres in my BoP, and other ships, spheres are way too small and so are cubes. Really want them to address this.

wmarionp · January 2013

I love STO so i dont want anyone to get the idea im bashing here. If you take a look at like the Atrox carrier, i put it next to my friends long range science ship and they were just about the same size. If you look at the atrox, its got about 40 more decks than the sci ship....(a guess but you get the idea). There have been space games with customizable ships, like STO were the ship size was far more comparable, and some of those ships were freaking huge, pretty awesome. however, that was more the "space flight" game, and, to be honest, still pay to play. so, we can complain to much, if our ships dont really match up, on a free to play game. Having said THAT, as much as i pay per month on the foolishness i desire in STO, it feels more a pay to play, or at least pay to get what i want game..) and from THAT standpoint, i would love more realistic size ships. however, id love it more if some bugs were fixed, like hitting my guns and having them actually FIRE....oh well, still i love STO..)

tacofangs · January 2013

As stated by others, shuttles are bigger than they should be next to most ships, but most ships are roughly in line with each other, and most shuttles are the same.

Here are the actual models, side by side, in an orthographic view in 3d Studio Max.
We model in feet, and at a much smaller scale for space, so I had to do some conversion math, but it should be pretty close.

The Defiant was shown in vastly different scales at different points in the show, so there is really more of a range for it's length than an actual number. Your 122m for the Defiant is on the small side of that range. Generally it's somewhere between 120m and 170m. We're at that upper end, but still well within the loose canonical size for the ship.

Hope that helps.

drkfrontiers · January 2013

tacofangs wrote: »

As stated by others, shuttles are bigger than they should be next to most ships, but most ships are roughly in line with each other, and most shuttles are the same.

Here are the actual models, side by side, in an orthographic view in 3d Studio Max.
We model in feet, and at a much smaller scale for space, so I had to do some conversion math, but it should be pretty close.

The Defiant was shown in vastly different scales at different points in the show, so there is really more of a range for it's length than an actual number. Your 122m for the Defiant is on the small side of that range. Generally it's somewhere between 120m and 170m. We're at that upper end, but still well within the loose canonical size for the ship.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Tacofangs. Can't argue with reason. I appreciate you taking time to demonstrate some of your magic!

All the teams designs are spectacular, getting better with each release.

Didn't mean to sound like I was ungrateful, which I am not in the least.

On a personal note, it means the world to me to see such a positive dev presence lately on the forums.

I have certainly missed hearing from you all. Please pass that along.

felderburg · January 2013

There was a thread a while back where someone had a chart to compare ship sizes and such. The chart confirmed exactly what Tacofangs says, that the ships are in line with each other, and the shuttles are in line with each other, but the shuttles are a bit larger than they should be so that people can see them.

Additionally, if you look at ships whose canon sizes are definitively known, they're pretty spot on. When I did my ship's MSD, I used, as I recall, Intrepid, Sovereign, and Excelsior class ships to compare mine to, and they were all within a few pixels of their official size on the screenshots.

tacofangs · January 2013

I mean, when it comes down to building these ships, making them the proper* size is the easiest part of it. Getting the shapes and materials right is much more difficult/time consuming. So there's no reason not to when that size is known.

*Proper size for those ships what we know what proper size is.

ETA: the only reason we ever vary the size of something, is for the sake of gameplay. (i.e. shuttles being bigger, so you can actually see them, etc.)

badname834854 · January 2013

tacofangs wrote: »

I mean, when it comes down to building these ships, making them the proper* size is the easiest part of it. Getting the shapes and materials right is much more difficult/time consuming. So there's no reason not to when that size is known.

*Proper size for those ships what we know what proper size is.

Heya Taco - allow me to be of assistance:

In the DS9 episode "Valiant", they cearly stated that the Jem Hadar Dreadnaught was "Twice The Size of a Galaxy Class Cruiser" - so is there a way you could make it closer to that? That should be pretty easy, right?

dontdrunkimshoot · January 2013

tacofangs wrote: »

I mean, when it comes down to building these ships, making them the proper* size is the easiest part of it. Getting the shapes and materials right is much more difficult/time consuming. So there's no reason not to when that size is known.

*Proper size for those ships what we know what proper size is.

ETA: the only reason we ever vary the size of something, is for the sake of gameplay. (i.e. shuttles being bigger, so you can actually see them, etc.)

and the dominion dreads being so huge it was simply unworkable in game i imagine.

theres also 2 versions that were seen, in orbit of cardasia at the very end there were impossibly huge ones, but the 1 the valiant faced was much smaller. like 4500m v 1500m

lolimpicard · January 2013

tacofangs wrote: »

As stated by others, shuttles are bigger than they should be next to most ships, but most ships are roughly in line with each other, and most shuttles are the same.

Here are the actual models, side by side, in an orthographic view in 3d Studio Max.
We model in feet, and at a much smaller scale for space, so I had to do some conversion math, but it should be pretty close.

The Defiant was shown in vastly different scales at different points in the show, so there is really more of a range for it's length than an actual number. Your 122m for the Defiant is on the small side of that range. Generally it's somewhere between 120m and 170m. We're at that upper end, but still well within the loose canonical size for the ship.

Hope that helps.

/brofist

Would have been disappointed had I judged the comparative sizes wrong.
Also: 3dsmax master race.

cptvanor · January 2013

badname834854 wrote: »

In the DS9 episode "Valiant", they cearly stated that the Jem Hadar Dreadnaught was "Twice The Size of a Galaxy Class Cruiser"

That would make it what, around 1200m then?

That should be pretty easy, right?

Making the model that size would be, making it that size and still having it work correct with everything else in the game is a different matter.

syberghost · January 2013

badname834854 wrote: »

Heya Taco - allow me to be of assistance:

In the DS9 episode "Valiant", they cearly stated that the Jem Hadar Dreadnaught was "Twice The Size of a Galaxy Class Cruiser" - so is there a way you could make it closer to that? That should be pretty easy, right?

Define "size"? Twice the length, proportionally, would be 8 times the volume. Twice the volume is only about a quarter more length/width/height.

walshicus · January 2013

badname834854 wrote: »

Heya Taco - allow me to be of assistance:

In the DS9 episode "Valiant", they cearly stated that the Jem Hadar Dreadnaught was "Twice The Size of a Galaxy Class Cruiser" - so is there a way you could make it closer to that? That should be pretty easy, right?

Twice the size as in twice the length, or twice the size as in twice the volume?

EDIT: Beaten by a long while...

distantworlds · January 2013

Most of the sizing in STO is great. Perspective is where most of the misconception comes in. A few other cases are where different eras meet. The newer ships are, on the whole, much bigger than the earlier generations. (Even if something in my brain feels its wrong that modern escort ships are bigger than the old Constitution class, I know they're supposed to be)

However, as someone noted above, there are a few exceptions. Most of the Birds of Prey, especially the Hegh'ta are are absurdly oversized. I'd love to see them dropped down to about twice the size of the Vo'quv launched BoP's. As much as I love my Hegh'ta, it annoys me that it seems to be on the same scale as the battlecruisers...

How hard would it be to change the scale of a ship? Would it actually require a new model/texture, or is that sort of thing simply a "scale" value in the engine? (I know some 3d engines do it that way, but I'm not familar with STO's)

Unknown · January 2013

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badname834854 · January 2013

No matter what, the Jem Dread should be bigger. at least a 20% bump.

Unknown · January 2013

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badname834854 · January 2013

fulleatherjacket wrote: »

Please, dear god, no. It's already so big that it dwarfs anything smaller than other carriers.

Exactly...because it should!

sollaf · January 2013

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

and the dominion dreads being so huge it was simply unworkable in game i imagine.

theres also 2 versions that were seen, in orbit of cardasia at the very end there were impossibly huge ones, but the 1 the valiant faced was much smaller. like 4500m v 1500m

The vailent faced a top secret prototype, it is very Lilly the finished product was a lot larger.

toiva · January 2013

Yup, the Dread would deserve a size bump.

Vo'quvs seem a little bit bigger than those Jem'Hadar dreads, actually.

And speaking of the Hegh'ta (and its alt skin Haj), they indeed are too big. Along with the Qin (and Birok) raptors, they are very much comparable to Vor'chas. The only difference here is the wingspan, and as the wings are thin, the volume of all of those ships is really very similar.

Btw. have you ever seen a Hegh'ta next to a Defiant? It's funny how the giant beast among them is a third more manoeuvrable (that giant beast is the Hegh'ta).

EDIT: Ha! Found this old thread, but still valid. Look at the Klingon ship chart and judge yourself. The Hegh'ta is bigger than an Intrepid class! You realise the size of its wingtip cannons alone?!

Ship re-sizing request

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