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Note from the fleet
shimmerless
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
On behalf of TRH, I'd like to apologize for any unpleasantness players may have faced in the last week or so. It's never been our intention to cause discomfort and we only want the best for both the health and integrity of the game, as well as for the level of enjoyment other players can expect from logging in. It's something we all very much strive towards and typically cooler heads will prevail.
It's been a long and stressful week and we just weren't prepared for the explosive direction that events quickly took. In retrospect I'm sure things could've been different, but it only pays to look forward. We now have lots of events going, all of which were community-organized; it's a fantastic opportunity to keep PvP in this damned game alive and kicking. And all of us are at your collective disposal towards achieving that end.
Our TS is always open if ever you want to drop in and say something.
Best + love,
- Shim x
It's been a long and stressful week and we just weren't prepared for the explosive direction that events quickly took. In retrospect I'm sure things could've been different, but it only pays to look forward. We now have lots of events going, all of which were community-organized; it's a fantastic opportunity to keep PvP in this damned game alive and kicking. And all of us are at your collective disposal towards achieving that end.
Our TS is always open if ever you want to drop in and say something.
Best + love,
- Shim x
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
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The buried nugget of an awesome pvp game and the folks I have been privileged to fly with and against keep me wading through all the spam, broken TRIBBLE and frustration to keep pvping.
I still see myself as just a wannabe when it comes to pvp, but 95% of the people I have contacted after matches to try and improve have always been magnanimous and helpful. It is so easy (I know first hand) to give in to negative thoughts and forget all the positive things that we get from this crazy game! Hang in all, and LONG LIVE THE PEW!
So concludes my longest screed on this site, hope it made some sense.
It was rough going at first but once we got a handle on things I think a lot of progress was made within the community; people were putting human faces onto players they'd otherwise only see as strings of digits and everyone came to realize that we all want the same thing.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I do have one question though.
I think about half the Panda fleet got banned from your TS last time, is that reversed? Obviously if someone is acting out they need to be kicked, but if you guys want to become a major interfleet "PvP hub" like it sounds like you do it would be good to have a guarantee that you won't randomly ban people you don't agree with.
To put things in perspective, even Pax isn't banned on Panda Vent, despite the fact that he has recorded and posted conversations from our members without their consent. There's another question: can we trust you guys not to do that anymore?
I don't think it's the fleet. I think it's more the misguided ambition of one person. Sadly, that reflects on the entire fleet, some of which I know are decent folks. If your fleet is looking to preserve the integrity and health of the game perhaps you should consider relieving yourselves of the individual.
Furthermore, in dealings I've had and have witnessed, the individual in question has always presented his best benevolent approach while turning allies to enemies behind your back. It's no surprise to me of the level of the attempted ruse.
Do PvP a favor. Don't try to get involved on behalf of the greater community.
Thanks
again with this TRIBBLE? drop it dude, like naz said past is past let it die. if me and him could talk then maybe a few people need to learn that saying.
Logan, I respect you as a good PVPer and as a person, but what you are saying is not true. Your personal feelings towards certain individuals from our fleet is clouding your judgement.
Also, all our actions were collectivly decided upon. As a fleet.
Our goal is and always will be to improve the state of PVP in this game, to better inter-fleet relations, to promote fair play and to act as role models for the PVP community. And the last days showed that we are not alone. The vast majority of the community is sharing our values and is expressing their support for us.
But we also have the feeling that other parties unfortunatly do not believe in these values. That some may be preaching similar values but are concerned only for their own benefit, the future of this game be damned.
We try to be better than that. With this thread Shimmer is expressing our values, who we are and what we stand for.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
I'm not too comfortable addressing much of this on here. However, since it does involve other players in a loose sense I'll give it a go.
"Half of the Panda fleet" is quite a gross exaggeration. The original bar list on the International PvP TS was very small, and represented a lone exception to the general rule. The problem was that a few of our members were deeply upset -- long prior to all of this -- with some of the players in question using our "open Teamspeak" policy. We couldn't ignore the feelings of some of our fleetmates and so the issue was put to a vote.
In the confusion, it appears some of the barrings were attempted; however when some of the players then wished to visit the TS to talk we had all of them lifted.
In many ways the Teamspeak is undergoing growing pains, and as human beings we're trying to balance the well-being of of our friends with the goals of the server.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Hank, its not some from your fleet, its as Logan said 1 person. The issue is, its not a personal feeling from Logan, but a collective feeling that is rapidly developing from the rest of the community which in turn is having a major (I do stress major) negative impact to the image of your fleet.
I on a personal level have had no issues with trph as a whole, but that 1 minority (just like in real life) ruins it for you as a collective.
Accusing someone directly of sabotaging something without proof, behind their back, and then asking them not to take it personal when they are caught red handed and challenged about such behaviour (I'm confident the said person has recorded it as well but will not play it back for obvious reasons) isn't the actions to demonstrate the values which Shimerless wants to show us of you as a fleet.
Please don't take this as a threat but as a warning (To the unmentioned: Please do not twist this statement like in the past to suit your agenda):
If the said individual continues like this, I can see whole fleets just warping out in pvp matches and not participating in tournaments to avoid such behaviour and in turn ruining your STO PvP enjoyment as a fleet.
I personally don't wish or agree to this behaviour of any kind but there is a high probability this will occur.
Also, you can mention it to the said person that the recent youtube audio/video clip is working wonders for the image of the Pandas and he can make it viewable to all. I freely pass the link out myself. Also can you ask him to point out exactly at which minute and second the accusation occurred.
In closing, to keep with the spirit of this thread, I also want to apologise for any conceived wrong doings I personally may or may not have done and also apologise on behalf of the pandas for their part.
@naz1911
PvP for old and new
NO fleet ever has and never will represent PvP in STO.
Take the attention you get from Mav on the forums, and from Branflakes talking to you and enjoy it. You represent your group of friends, and your fleet. Just like everyone else. PvP in sto is bigger then both combined.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
While we've on occasion been a little zealous in converting the playerbase to the clean and plain side of life, we've also long had the support of many in the community for our policies and the way we play the game. There are quarters who'd like to drag everyone down to the same level, and the mere existence of the fleet infuriates them. It's my belief that this is the reasoning that led to the original intense scrutiny, and in reaching out with a fig leaf to all PvP players I'm by no means excusing said behavior.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
A little zealous? At times I find "a little" to be an underexaggeration when it came to topics which were sensitive. Certain TRH members would use the forums and hang out fleets or certain members in disclosed form, and in orgpvp accussations would be thrown left and right.
Nonetheless i hope for the best, and hope TRH is improving to become even more outstanding players of the community.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Respect did start forming for that desire to play clean as you say. However the human downside is that 99% of the good deeds can easily be wiped out by that 1% bad which seems to be the case.
I am not going to ask on behalf of the community but on a personal level, to avoid these situations escalating like it did in such a rapid manner, how can we bring any issues up regarding your fleet? And more importantly, how would we be informed how that issue has been dealt with to give me the confidence that you as a fleet are being proactive about dealing with the bad minority? If this helps other get the confidence, its a bonus.
Before the same question is asked of the pandas, I'll answer by saying any wrong doings by the pandas can be forwarded to Bieber or Herb who are our current fleet reps. There are no leaders in Pandas, just nominated reps.
@naz1911
PvP for old and new.
I appreciate the honesty, but I think what you've laid out has some very negative repercussions.
You guys want to strengthen the PvP community, and so do we, and we should be working together on that. Instead of building a single unified community though, we have two loose groups forming that are becoming more partisan as time goes on. You've got the Panda/Critz/TSI sphere on the one hand, and the TRH/Inner Circle and friends sphere on the other. If we aren't careful this could get as bad as Republicans vs. Democrats.
How you run your TS is your business, but if you care about strengthening PvP you should either have it be open with fair rules, or abandon the pretense altogether and revert to a closed or semi-closed fleet TS. What we have right now is only helping to divide the community.
Keep in mind that the will of the majority is a fickle creature -- it is prone to mob mentality and group think. You need a balance between the individual and the whole. Pandas gravitates more towards the individual, and from what I've heard TRH gravitates almost completely towards the whole. We can debate the philosophy behind all of this, but I believe a lopsided system to be a structural weakness.
For example, I've been told that the recent release of private conversations was decided democratically, despite the fact that one individual decided to secretly record and suggest releasing them. Now that individual is hiding behind the guilt of the collective and refuses to take any sort of personal responsibility. The most likely truth is that the group only voted for what that individual had in his heart to do already, and aside from that individual no one who voted with him would be brazen enough go through with the act on their own. Some fault lies with the group, definitely, but the majority lies with the individual. If your fleet had a stronger balance between individual and collective rights and responsibilities this incident would probably be avoided altogether.
While it's a good step that you've said sorry in a general sense, releasing private conversations is something that needs to be specifically apologized for given the magnitude of it's consequences. Whether you decide to answer individually or as a whole, I do want a response -- Will you promise not to secretly record private conversations and release them publicly in the future? If you can't make this promise, then this thread isn't about making right, but rather about good PR for TRH. If you can make this promise, we can start making progress towards more cooperation and hopefully undo some of the segregation we've unwittingly created in the PvP community.
As a leader of tsi... I can yeah. Reguardless of the good we've tried to do in the past everyone only remembers the bad.
Do you even Science Bro?
If you'd like to move forward, you really must control the impulse that leads down to slurs or false accusations. You have to treat others how you'd like to be treated yourself. I know that it can be difficult for some (at times myself included) but as I said before, you have to put a human face on people, realize that conspiratorial thinking is rarely an accurate picture of reality and develop the maturity to forgive others for your own sins.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Agreed that there were too many assumptions made, however, to settle the debate and not prolong this thread which I assume would be in your favour as well, could you answer the basic questions posted above?
Maybe this particular post can be settled in private between you 2 to avoid the silliness that could potentially erupt??
Look up "leading question" on Google. I only asked one question, and it wasn't leading.
Here's the question: Will you promise not to secretly record private conversations and release them publicly in the future?
There's exactly one way one might argue this is a leading question -- that it implies TRH released private correspondence to the public. But TRH actually did release private correspondence to the public, which is a fact no one denies. Therefore, this is not a leading question.
A satisfactory answer is required. How can we trust TRH in the future without one?
The second half of this sentence is not relevant since I did not ask a leading question, but please, and I mean this with all sincerity, if I've misunderstood the TRH process somehow feel free to correct me.
I'm not aware that I've done either in this thread. The later may be able to be loosely argued, but certainly I haven't slurred -- that's a false accusation on your part.
I appreciate your desire not to offend after the recent drama Naz, but if we bury our heads in the sand and pretend these issues do not exist it's only a matter of time before things reach a boiling point again. Delaying makes the eventual fallout worse. Better that we work things out now, or at least try.
Look it up.
That being said, and as much as it pains me, I suggest you follow the advice of naz. And that you do so with no actual expectation of privacy on your part. It is clear that you feel you won't have any and there is no reasonable way to ensure that you will have it. So I also suggest you all speak very carefully in the future with full regard that any and all conversations you have will be open to public review.
Cheers and move along. This really isn't about the rest of the world, it's a small group that needs to work things out. Go somewhere and do that.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Reasonable+expectation+of+privacy
In case you didn't want to look it up. Cause I'm all about helping. Really. Helper. Me.
Privacy and recording are similar but not proper. It is illegal to record someone without their consent in 90% of the civilized world.
http://www.uvu.edu/wrs/trainingmaterials/recording.html
Good read, only 12 states actually allow legal authorities to record based off of one party consent.
The fact is recording someone else's vent over a video game is childish. I haven't bothered with this game for so long now because of all this childish drama and lack of anything worth it in pvp. Everyone, grow up. You're all making this community look like f'n romper room.
Kthnxbye.
So legally not much you can do but morally its up for the community to determine
JFYI only takes one. That was even in bwemo university page. I went through all this with my ventrilo harassment on youtube you all should see them, just look up ventrilo harassment its lulz!