but as an ex soldier myself I can tell you if one of us did that our own people would hang us out to dry
Not if there are a group of soldiers all thinking along the same lines. Still, whether hung out to dry or not, the act of one does not define the act of many.
the whole point of trek races is they are stereo types
Ferengi are greedy , Cardassians are evil , romulans are militaristic , Klingons are proud and agressive , borg eat their own dead etc
The Ferengi being greedy is true, though it has exceptions (Nog). The Cardassians being evil has exceptions (already explained). The Romulans being militaristic, that one I'll give you cause I can't think of an example that shows otherwise. Klingons are proud and aggressive, again true, though they aren't all the same. Think, Gowron was Arrogant (to the point he became jealous and risked lives). Duras (and the entire family) were as dishonourable as they come. Martok was open to diplomacy and friends with the Federation. The Borg, they're essentially one person.
I have several that I really hate in no particular order, except for humans which are the worst of the lot for all the painfully obvious reasons. The rest of the species are aesthetically repulsive or just a stupid concept.. some are both.
1 Humans
2 Kazon
3 Chalnoth
4 Xindi Reptilians
5 Sheliak
6 Suliban
7 All the cat species - Antican, Caitian, etc
8 Antedean
9 Pakleds
10 Tellarite
but as an ex soldier myself I can tell you if one of us did that our own people would hang us out to dry
Pointing out that you are a soldier merely means your position is biased. Any soldier of any allegiance would say the same.
The objective reality is, though, military culture is a constant, and defends despicable acts by its own all the time. It doesn't matter what flag one fights under or what one's reasons personally are for fighting. The practice of organized violence is necessary amoral.
Hey! I like Isabella's race! It was much more creative than most ST races. Short version for those who didn't see Imaginary Friend: her race is as far from humanoid as you can get. The race not only doesn't live in a Class-M environment but doesn't live on planets at all. Instead, they live in the Nebula FGC 47. The members of her race are apparently made of of some sort of energized plasma. I really wish they'd get used again.
Day of the Dove, is one of the greatest Star Trek episodes ever, but after the "Glowy mist gets on board and starts trolling/killing/hijacking the bodies of redshirts" plot got reused so many times in TNG, VOY, ENT, and the shenanigans with the Prophets, it's just so boring.
But anyways.... Back to Klingons. Truthfully, yeah some humans are just as bad with that honor TRIBBLE as Klingons are, there are some with actual brains though.
Klingons are Aliens. Sure a lot of them look like hypocrites by human standards, but they're Klingons. They have Klingon standards.
Klingons -- Their culture made no sense at all. It was either terrible writing or they were intended to be extreme hypocrites.
That's the problem with TV. One writer wants evil space commies. The next one wants to do samurai in space. The next writer wants space vikings. The next wants Game of Thrones with Targs.
Kazon - Already mentioned. Cheap knock-off Klingons of the Delta Quadrant.
Vulcans - "You lack logic" The fact that they think they are far superior to any race, because of their "Logic" and no emotions.
Bajorans - All this religious TRIBBLE just annoyed me. Emmisary this, Prophets that. Almost stopped watching DS9 because of that.
Xindi - The reptillian version. Good god! Shoot them already!
Cardassian - Dukat. He practically ruins the entire race for me.
Quite an extensive list. But there are some characters I like from each races. I.e Worf & Martok (Klingon), Spock & Tuvok (Vulcan), Kira & Bareil (Bajoran), Damar & Garak (Cardassian).
Yes, I really never liked them. ALL they were originally made for was:
1. To pussify the Borg (the first one of many times this would happen on Voyager)
2. To be a 'greater threat' (but this was easily tossed aside because of the ubership Voyager was)
3. To get 7 of 9 on the show.
I have to say I disagree with your points. I mean it's cool that you don't like them, I don't really care about that and you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm also not saying you're wrong for not liking them for those reasons, but from what you've written I just think you've got the wrong idea about 'Scorpion'.
Your first point stresses that the undine pussified the borg. I don't see this as a bad thing per se, but more to the point - they weren't really what the story was 'about' if you get me. They don't pussify the borg so much as present an outside context problem to the borg, in a similar way that the borg are an outside context problem for the Federation. The borg are still a threat, they just don't know how to handle Species 8472/the undine. And Voyager had some good fortune and also the talents of the Doctor towards Maguyvering a solution that the borg, by their nature, couldn't find by themselves.
Although the story for 'Scorpion' stressed that the borg were in dire straits, the borg were still the main antagonists in that two-parter (I'll get to this below) - the undine, I hate to say it, were almost Macguffins, which is a good enough reason to hate them I guess. They're not wholly Macguffins though, because they are more than a plot device, and the narrative gives us information that they're bad guys in their own right. That said, their motivations are left vague and barely explored - which is fine because, as I said above, the story isn't really 'about' them anyway.
Which leads me to your second point. While the undine were a 'greater threat', ultimately the story for 'Scorpion' is about Voyager vs the borg. Remember that after the teaser in part 1, we cut to the Voyager crew and them totally ignorant of the threat of the undine - THEIR main concern is to try to somehow navigate borg territory undetected. When the undine are revealed, there is still tension between Janeway and Chakotay with regards to dealing with the borg - the latter gives us the parable about the fox and the scorpion. Essentially the undine are the 'river' both the fox (Voyager) and the scorpion (the borg) have to cross.
In other words, yes they are an explicit and obvious threat, but it's really the nature of the borg's treachery that forms the drama for the story, typified by the whole uneasy alliance thing that forms the dramatic tension - remember that Chakotay and Janeway argue about whether it is a good idea to trust the borg, and when Janeway gets taken out of commission Chakotay takes matters into his own hands. By doing so, we discover that the borg were actually the aggressors against Species 8472, and that had they not attempted to invade their fluidic space, the undine may never have ever presented themselves as a threat at all to the galaxy.
To put that into perspective, it is the borg's actions that drive the plot forward, it is they who present another source of tension for the crew who aren't just preoccupied with dealing with the undine, and finally once the threat of Species 8472 is neutralised, the borg turn on Voyager immediately - which forms the climax for the story. This is the role of a villain in any story.
As for your third point, well... yeah, she had to be brought on the show somehow. Of course I quite like Seven so I don't really see this as a point against Species 8472.
I have to say I disagree with your points. I mean it's cool that you don't like them, I don't really care about that and you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm also not saying you're wrong for not liking them for those reasons, but from what you've written I just think you've got the wrong idea for 'Scorpion'.
Your first point stresses that the undine pussified the borg. I don't see this as a bad thing per se, but more to the point - they weren't really what the story was 'about' if you get me. They don't pussify the borg so much as present an outside context problem to the borg, in a similar way that the borg are an outside context problem for the Federation. The borg are still a threat, they just don't know how to handle Species 8472/the undine. And Voyager had some good fortune and also the talents of the Doctor towards Maguyvering a solution that the borg, by their nature, couldn't find by themselves. Although the story for 'Scorpion' stressed that the borg were in dire straits, the borg were still the main antagonists in that two-parter (I'll get to this in the next paragraph) - the undine, I hate to say it, were almost Macguffins, which is a good enough reason to hate them I guess. (they're not wholly Macguffins because they are more than a plot device, and the narrative gives us information that they're bad guys in their own right, but that said their motivations are left vague for the most part - which is fine because, as I said above, the story isn't really 'about' them anyway)
Which leads me to your second point. While the undine were a 'greater threat', ultimately the story for 'Scorpion' is about Voyager vs the borg. Remember that after the teaser in part 1, we cut to the Voyager crew and them totally ignorant of the threat of the undine - THEIR main concern is to try to somehow navigate borg territory undetected. When the undine are revealed, there is still tension between Janeway and Chakotay - the latter gives us the parable about the fox and the scorpion. Essentially the undine are the 'river' both the fox (Voyager) and the scorpion (the borg) have to cross. In other words, yes they are the explicit and obvious threat, but it's really the nature of the borg's treachery that forms the climax of the story, and the whole uneasy alliance thing that forms the dramatic tension for much of the story as well - remember that Chakotay and Janeway argue about whether it is a good idea to trust the borg, and when Janeway gets taken out of commission Chakotay takes matters into his own hands. By doing so we discover that the borg were actually the aggressors against Species 8472, and that had they not attempted to invade their fluidic space, the undine may never have ever presented themselves as a threat at all to the galaxy. To put that into perspective, it is the borg's actions that drive the plot forward, it is they who present another source of tension for the crew who aren't just preoccupied with dealing with the undine, and finally once the threat of Species 8472 is neutralised, the borg turn on Voyager immediately. All of which is part of what a villain's role is in a story.
As for 3, well... yeah, she had to be brought on the show somehow. Of course I quite like Seven so I don't really see this as a point against Species 8472.
Hmm, well, perhaps I was putting the wrong wording on my post about them. Perhaps the best way I should've said was...'I never really liked Species 8472...as portrayed in Voyager'. Still for the same reasons as mentioned before though.
I DO like them as a species and how they aren't just 'another humanoid' race, not to mention how...absolute they are in their thoughts about wiping out everything.
That said, you bring up quite a few good points, even if you didn't paragraph very much.
True that the Borg were always the real bad guy, but while I got that, it just seemed like the Undine still were there as the reason the Borg were being bad, but at least the Borg got taught a lesson about not being invincible. It's why we have Tac cubes now really.
Species 8472 even after Scorpion was over, were used so infrequently. The episode, Prey for example, just re-used the Hirogen 'evil, nasty hunters' thing again, just on one of them.
Or In the Flesh, which...to me, was probably the most annoying of the episodes, because it tried to...humanize them. Both literally and figuratively. They were shown as humans, and Voyager, through just one episode, made them go from 'the most dangerous foe we've ever seen', to...'everything's ok, the threat is completely averted'.
*Le sigh* But...if it wasn't for the episode, we probably wouldn't have all the info and intrigue about them that we have in the game.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Pakleds. How did a race of people with the intellectual capacity of a 3 year old ever get to space and are able to remain there? I think I remember that they steal technology from other races but how stupid must those races be to be tricked by the Pakled.
Pakleds are not stupid. They just have body language and vocabulary that come across that way. They're social manipulators, which is how they managed to get ahold of warp capable crafts without developing the tech themselves.
That said, you bring up quite a few good points, even if you didn't paragraph very much. :P
I swear it didn't look like a BIG HUEG EFFORTPOST in the text window. Hopefully it reads better now.
The reason I felt a need to jump in with my observations was because I recently rewatched that two-parter and was far more appreciative of it now than I was when I first watched it (which was basically when it first aired). Hell I didn't even know they ever reappeared in Voyager, I haven't seen much of it. Voyager... it's... like a diamond in the rough. There's quite a few gems there but there's a hell of a lot of TRIBBLE surrounding it. A lot of good ideas badly executed, or go-nowhere plots, or missed opportunities.
So many reasons, it's like a glowing ball of intense dislike. I can't name one thing, I'd go blind if I stared at it too long trying to make something out.
Time is a funny thing; There is always too much of it. Except when you need it the most, then there is never enough.
I didn't see a single Bajoran that I liked. The one that comes closest to being likeable is actually Kai Wynn and that's more of an appreciation that she was actually written to be hated. Every time they were written to be sympathetic they just came of as whiny, needy, pushy, adolescent know-it-alls.
I'd thank the Cardassians for what they did to the Bajorans if not for one thing: they didn't finish the job!
Pakleds are not stupid. They just have body language and vocabulary that come across that way. They're social manipulators, which is how they managed to get ahold of warp capable crafts without developing the tech themselves.
I agree that they're not stupid, though I have a different theory as to how they got warp technology despite the very clear problems they were having with it, and with communicating. I actually just recently posted a Foundry mission that tells part of the story as I see it. It's still in review status, and I am still very much a n00b with the Foundry, but its title is "Finding Lascaux."
I can understand where the dislike comes from, though, given the very insulting way the Pakleds were portrayed (that episode was in its own way as bad as "Code of Honor," except ableist instead of racist) and the...shall we say...VERY inadequate Starfleet diplomacy and investigative skills put on display in that episode.
I don't understand where the hate for Cardassians is coming from, though, or this idea that they all deserve to suffer because of what their evil regime did. Those who were responsible for those crimes deserve every punishment that came their way. But to suggest that people like Tekeny Ghemor, Natima Lang, Rugal Pa'Dar, or Joret Dal deserved to die because of it...just no. I can't buy that for a second.
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For me personally, the Tellarites and Saurians win hands down, never have and never will let one become a bridge officer on my ships, and it really irks me to see em roaming the decks when i have to go to engineering or crew decks upon my ships..if i had an option of what species could be seen walking my halls, those 2 would certainly be non existant...
Is it the species as you saw them on Star Trek that annoy you, or is it the aesthetics in-game (which IMO on those species leaves something to be desired)?
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Those midget math genius species from Star Trek Voyager.
I've hung around 'Beautiful Mind' time geniuses before. They're arrogant and irritating as hell! Those little midgets remind me of them.
Also why I hate Sheldon Cooper on Big Bang Theory. I swear, the higher the IQ, the more antisocial and mentally screwy they get. *L* And in Voyager there's an ENTIRE race of aliens like that? Dear god!
Personal least favourite? The Breen. Faceless antagonists = boring antagonists.
I have very little time for TNG-era Klingons, either... plastic "samurai" written by people with no concept of a warrior culture. TOS-era Klingons, now - emotionally sophisticated, versatile, proper foils for the Federation... yes, bring those guys back, please!
I have very little time for TNG-era Klingons, either... plastic "samurai" written by people with no concept of a warrior culture. TOS-era Klingons, now - emotionally sophisticated, versatile, proper foils for the Federation... yes, bring those guys back, please!
The TNG ones aren't samurai--well, Worf is, but the rest are Vikings. Sto-Vo-Kor is basically Valhalla, and when you see the council hall, you'd swear it was Heorot. Personally I like to think there are two different Klingon "religions"...the more samurai one that Worf follows and that you see on Boreth (the cloned Kahless seems to represent this religion too), and the more Viking one that is now followed by the majority of Klingons.
The TOS Klingons, though...I agree that I liked them better. In a lot of ways, they are what the Cardassians became in TNG and DS9. If you want sophistication in the modern shows, that's where to look.
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The TNG ones aren't samurai--well, Worf is, but the rest are Vikings. Sto-Vo-Kor is basically Valhalla, and when you see the council hall, you'd swear it was Heorot. Personally I like to think there are two different Klingon "religions"...the more samurai one that Worf follows and that you see on Boreth (the cloned Kahless seems to represent this religion too), and the more Viking one that is now followed by the majority of Klingons.
The TOS Klingons, though...I agree that I liked them better. In a lot of ways, they are what the Cardassians became in TNG and DS9. If you want sophistication in the modern shows, that's where to look.
While the definition of "religion" is iffy, given the Klingons' claim that they killed their gods, to me there does seem to be a schism in Klingon society when it comes to notions of honor vs. glory. And I think that's where the division really is--the "samurai" look at honor in bushido-like terms as a strict code to be followed regardless of whether it brings one victory, but the "Vikings" speak of honor but they really mean glory...winning at all costs. If you look at Martok's behavior, drinking over the corpses in Central Command, it really looks like something you'd expect to see in Beowulf. But I suspect Worf wouldn't have done that; he seems like the type who would at least distinguish between military targets and civilian noncombatants who were likely also in the building.
(In all seriousness, when I had to study Beowulf in school, I just looked at the characters as TNG Klingons and suddenly it made a whole lot of sense why they said and did what they did.)
As to how Worf ended up following the "samurai religion" instead of the "Viking" one--a lot of his education about what it means to be Klingon came from books...books that I'd bet were not always up to date, in the Federation, with the latest cultural developments.
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Comments
Except not all Cardassians did bad things.
Not if there are a group of soldiers all thinking along the same lines. Still, whether hung out to dry or not, the act of one does not define the act of many.
The Ferengi being greedy is true, though it has exceptions (Nog). The Cardassians being evil has exceptions (already explained). The Romulans being militaristic, that one I'll give you cause I can't think of an example that shows otherwise. Klingons are proud and aggressive, again true, though they aren't all the same. Think, Gowron was Arrogant (to the point he became jealous and risked lives). Duras (and the entire family) were as dishonourable as they come. Martok was open to diplomacy and friends with the Federation. The Borg, they're essentially one person.
Bajorans -- Ro Laren was so terrible that I could never stop hating them...Kai Winn made this worse.
Kazon -- They were water pirates. Come on. WATER PIRATES. Ridiculous.
Talaxians -- They were just so ugly.
Zakdorn -- That guy that couldn't beat Data was just annoying, arrogant, and hideous.
Klingons -- Their culture made no sense at all. It was either terrible writing or they were intended to be extreme hypocrites.
1 Humans
2 Kazon
3 Chalnoth
4 Xindi Reptilians
5 Sheliak
6 Suliban
7 All the cat species - Antican, Caitian, etc
8 Antedean
9 Pakleds
10 Tellarite
Pointing out that you are a soldier merely means your position is biased. Any soldier of any allegiance would say the same.
The objective reality is, though, military culture is a constant, and defends despicable acts by its own all the time. It doesn't matter what flag one fights under or what one's reasons personally are for fighting. The practice of organized violence is necessary amoral.
This thread is about xenophobia to star trek species!
Hear hear!
Day of the Dove, is one of the greatest Star Trek episodes ever, but after the "Glowy mist gets on board and starts trolling/killing/hijacking the bodies of redshirts" plot got reused so many times in TNG, VOY, ENT, and the shenanigans with the Prophets, it's just so boring.
Klingons are Aliens. Sure a lot of them look like hypocrites by human standards, but they're Klingons. They have Klingon standards.
That's the problem with TV. One writer wants evil space commies. The next one wants to do samurai in space. The next writer wants space vikings. The next wants Game of Thrones with Targs.
Better?
[Edit to add]
Just to clarify, the Cardassians're actually one of my favorite-written ST races
Ferengi - Sure, every show needs a money grabber. This just has a whole race. And they all have annoying voices.
Klingon - Honor this, honor that. "You lack honor filthy human!". Repetetive and annoying.
Kazon - Already mentioned. Cheap knock-off Klingons of the Delta Quadrant.
Vulcans - "You lack logic" The fact that they think they are far superior to any race, because of their "Logic" and no emotions.
Bajorans - All this religious TRIBBLE just annoyed me. Emmisary this, Prophets that. Almost stopped watching DS9 because of that.
Xindi - The reptillian version. Good god! Shoot them already!
Cardassian - Dukat. He practically ruins the entire race for me.
Quite an extensive list. But there are some characters I like from each races. I.e Worf & Martok (Klingon), Spock & Tuvok (Vulcan), Kira & Bareil (Bajoran), Damar & Garak (Cardassian).
...no matter how I type that it never looks like a real word.
I have to say I disagree with your points. I mean it's cool that you don't like them, I don't really care about that and you're entitled to your opinion, and I'm also not saying you're wrong for not liking them for those reasons, but from what you've written I just think you've got the wrong idea about 'Scorpion'.
Your first point stresses that the undine pussified the borg. I don't see this as a bad thing per se, but more to the point - they weren't really what the story was 'about' if you get me. They don't pussify the borg so much as present an outside context problem to the borg, in a similar way that the borg are an outside context problem for the Federation. The borg are still a threat, they just don't know how to handle Species 8472/the undine. And Voyager had some good fortune and also the talents of the Doctor towards Maguyvering a solution that the borg, by their nature, couldn't find by themselves.
Although the story for 'Scorpion' stressed that the borg were in dire straits, the borg were still the main antagonists in that two-parter (I'll get to this below) - the undine, I hate to say it, were almost Macguffins, which is a good enough reason to hate them I guess. They're not wholly Macguffins though, because they are more than a plot device, and the narrative gives us information that they're bad guys in their own right. That said, their motivations are left vague and barely explored - which is fine because, as I said above, the story isn't really 'about' them anyway.
Which leads me to your second point. While the undine were a 'greater threat', ultimately the story for 'Scorpion' is about Voyager vs the borg. Remember that after the teaser in part 1, we cut to the Voyager crew and them totally ignorant of the threat of the undine - THEIR main concern is to try to somehow navigate borg territory undetected. When the undine are revealed, there is still tension between Janeway and Chakotay with regards to dealing with the borg - the latter gives us the parable about the fox and the scorpion. Essentially the undine are the 'river' both the fox (Voyager) and the scorpion (the borg) have to cross.
In other words, yes they are an explicit and obvious threat, but it's really the nature of the borg's treachery that forms the drama for the story, typified by the whole uneasy alliance thing that forms the dramatic tension - remember that Chakotay and Janeway argue about whether it is a good idea to trust the borg, and when Janeway gets taken out of commission Chakotay takes matters into his own hands. By doing so, we discover that the borg were actually the aggressors against Species 8472, and that had they not attempted to invade their fluidic space, the undine may never have ever presented themselves as a threat at all to the galaxy.
To put that into perspective, it is the borg's actions that drive the plot forward, it is they who present another source of tension for the crew who aren't just preoccupied with dealing with the undine, and finally once the threat of Species 8472 is neutralised, the borg turn on Voyager immediately - which forms the climax for the story. This is the role of a villain in any story.
As for your third point, well... yeah, she had to be brought on the show somehow. Of course I quite like Seven so I don't really see this as a point against Species 8472.
Hmm, well, perhaps I was putting the wrong wording on my post about them. Perhaps the best way I should've said was...'I never really liked Species 8472...as portrayed in Voyager'. Still for the same reasons as mentioned before though.
I DO like them as a species and how they aren't just 'another humanoid' race, not to mention how...absolute they are in their thoughts about wiping out everything.
That said, you bring up quite a few good points, even if you didn't paragraph very much.
True that the Borg were always the real bad guy, but while I got that, it just seemed like the Undine still were there as the reason the Borg were being bad, but at least the Borg got taught a lesson about not being invincible. It's why we have Tac cubes now really.
Species 8472 even after Scorpion was over, were used so infrequently. The episode, Prey for example, just re-used the Hirogen 'evil, nasty hunters' thing again, just on one of them.
Or In the Flesh, which...to me, was probably the most annoying of the episodes, because it tried to...humanize them. Both literally and figuratively. They were shown as humans, and Voyager, through just one episode, made them go from 'the most dangerous foe we've ever seen', to...'everything's ok, the threat is completely averted'.
*Le sigh* But...if it wasn't for the episode, we probably wouldn't have all the info and intrigue about them that we have in the game.
Pakleds are not stupid. They just have body language and vocabulary that come across that way. They're social manipulators, which is how they managed to get ahold of warp capable crafts without developing the tech themselves.
The reason I felt a need to jump in with my observations was because I recently rewatched that two-parter and was far more appreciative of it now than I was when I first watched it (which was basically when it first aired). Hell I didn't even know they ever reappeared in Voyager, I haven't seen much of it. Voyager... it's... like a diamond in the rough. There's quite a few gems there but there's a hell of a lot of TRIBBLE surrounding it. A lot of good ideas badly executed, or go-nowhere plots, or missed opportunities.
Whatever his species was.
So many reasons, it's like a glowing ball of intense dislike. I can't name one thing, I'd go blind if I stared at it too long trying to make something out.
I didn't see a single Bajoran that I liked. The one that comes closest to being likeable is actually Kai Wynn and that's more of an appreciation that she was actually written to be hated. Every time they were written to be sympathetic they just came of as whiny, needy, pushy, adolescent know-it-alls.
I'd thank the Cardassians for what they did to the Bajorans if not for one thing: they didn't finish the job!
I agree that they're not stupid, though I have a different theory as to how they got warp technology despite the very clear problems they were having with it, and with communicating. I actually just recently posted a Foundry mission that tells part of the story as I see it. It's still in review status, and I am still very much a n00b with the Foundry, but its title is "Finding Lascaux."
I can understand where the dislike comes from, though, given the very insulting way the Pakleds were portrayed (that episode was in its own way as bad as "Code of Honor," except ableist instead of racist) and the...shall we say...VERY inadequate Starfleet diplomacy and investigative skills put on display in that episode.
I don't understand where the hate for Cardassians is coming from, though, or this idea that they all deserve to suffer because of what their evil regime did. Those who were responsible for those crimes deserve every punishment that came their way. But to suggest that people like Tekeny Ghemor, Natima Lang, Rugal Pa'Dar, or Joret Dal deserved to die because of it...just no. I can't buy that for a second.
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Also, the newt things from "Threshold".
I've hung around 'Beautiful Mind' time geniuses before. They're arrogant and irritating as hell! Those little midgets remind me of them.
Also why I hate Sheldon Cooper on Big Bang Theory. I swear, the higher the IQ, the more antisocial and mentally screwy they get. *L* And in Voyager there's an ENTIRE race of aliens like that? Dear god!
I have very little time for TNG-era Klingons, either... plastic "samurai" written by people with no concept of a warrior culture. TOS-era Klingons, now - emotionally sophisticated, versatile, proper foils for the Federation... yes, bring those guys back, please!
My character Tsin'xing
The TNG ones aren't samurai--well, Worf is, but the rest are Vikings. Sto-Vo-Kor is basically Valhalla, and when you see the council hall, you'd swear it was Heorot. Personally I like to think there are two different Klingon "religions"...the more samurai one that Worf follows and that you see on Boreth (the cloned Kahless seems to represent this religion too), and the more Viking one that is now followed by the majority of Klingons.
The TOS Klingons, though...I agree that I liked them better. In a lot of ways, they are what the Cardassians became in TNG and DS9. If you want sophistication in the modern shows, that's where to look.
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Interesting theory, I like it
(In all seriousness, when I had to study Beowulf in school, I just looked at the characters as TNG Klingons and suddenly it made a whole lot of sense why they said and did what they did.)
As to how Worf ended up following the "samurai religion" instead of the "Viking" one--a lot of his education about what it means to be Klingon came from books...books that I'd bet were not always up to date, in the Federation, with the latest cultural developments.
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