Bajorans , Not only are the religion nuts they are also hippys and more arrogant than Humans, Cardassians and even Vulcans sometimes. They are that 'dickish' they make you sometimes want Dukat to win even when he has gone mental four or five times over. They also have it in there heads in DS9 that they are one of the most important powers in the alpha and even gamma quadrant , most of the tech they have is all down to the Cardassians.
While the definition of "religion" is iffy, given the Klingons' claim that they killed their gods, to me there does seem to be a schism in Klingon society when it comes to notions of honor vs. glory. And I think that's where the division really is--the "samurai" look at honor in bushido-like terms as a strict code to be followed regardless of whether it brings one victory, but the "Vikings" speak of honor but they really mean glory...winning at all costs. If you look at Martok's behavior, drinking over the corpses in Central Command, it really looks like something you'd expect to see in Beowulf. But I suspect Worf wouldn't have done that; he seems like the type who would at least distinguish between military targets and civilian noncombatants who were likely also in the building.
(In all seriousness, when I had to study Beowulf in school, I just looked at the characters as TNG Klingons and suddenly it made a whole lot of sense why they said and did what they did.)
As to how Worf ended up following the "samurai religion" instead of the "Viking" one--a lot of his education about what it means to be Klingon came from books...books that I'd bet were not always up to date, in the Federation, with the latest cultural developments.
That's a good point.
I'd like to add that Worf, being essentially an expatriate, had some rather romantic views about his own people. I always thought he adopted the 'romantic' version of what Klingons are supposed to be. For one, it seems to fit a more noble image. For another, it fits better with the values he'd been raised with in the Federation.
Might also have to factor in that he was also the Klingon equivalent of a nobleman and with it comes a certain set of behaviors.
Therefore I submit this. I think Worf tried to follow an ideal Klingon image and kinda made a few wrong conclusions. It shows when he actually has to hang out with his people. He knows all the rituals and how to act in specific social situations. However, he falls flat on his face when he has to try and relax with his fellow Klingons in a more casual setting. When he acts like the ideal Klingon, to other Klingons it looks like he has a painstick up his... well, you know.:D
It's like reading stories about Knights and Chivalry, then looking into the history to find out that Knights weren't really all that Chivalrous.
While the definition of "religion" is iffy, given the Klingons' claim that they killed their gods, to me there does seem to be a schism in Klingon society when it comes to notions of honor vs. glory. And I think that's where the division really is--the "samurai" look at honor in bushido-like terms as a strict code to be followed regardless of whether it brings one victory, but the "Vikings" speak of honor but they really mean glory...winning at all costs. If you look at Martok's behavior, drinking over the corpses in Central Command, it really looks like something you'd expect to see in Beowulf. But I suspect Worf wouldn't have done that; he seems like the type who would at least distinguish between military targets and civilian noncombatants who were likely also in the building.
(In all seriousness, when I had to study Beowulf in school, I just looked at the characters as TNG Klingons and suddenly it made a whole lot of sense why they said and did what they did.)
As to how Worf ended up following the "samurai religion" instead of the "Viking" one--a lot of his education about what it means to be Klingon came from books...books that I'd bet were not always up to date, in the Federation, with the latest cultural developments.
I agree, Worf's perspective of 'Klingon Life' is somewhat skewed due to his Federation upbringing, and would also agree that although the status of a house can fluctuate within a single generation, during his early childhood, Worf's would have been a privileged/noble upbringing. It's no wonder that he is so awkward around Klingon boisterousness, as to the values instilled in his childhood, it's 'common behavior' which is beneath his dignity.
Any race that the writers make talk in an odd fashion, with the aim of making us sympathise with them find them endearing. Am thinking in particular of the Terra Novans and the Vori (the guerillas that captured and brainwashed Chakotay) - who irritate the heck out of me. The Pakleds on the other hand are a good deconstruction of this.
Similarly, any 'noble savage/primitive' type race that the writers want us to like - as it inevitably becomes a clumsy morality tale. I am thinking in particular of the Boraalans, and the ones from one of the penultimate episodes of Voyager, where Chakotay and Seven crash and end up living with some stone age types, who eventually have to be saved from the evils of education and modern medicine.
With Worf, the expat thing definitely contributes too.
That said, I can't help but notice that the clone of Kahless and the monks of Boreth seem to think fairly similarly to Worf, which is what makes me suspect there are some oft-ignored religious/spiritual writings guiding Worf's conduct.
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All of the extremely generic and dull species encountered by Voyager in the Delta Quadrant that only varied according to the minor details in their forehead and nose ridges.
That said, I did love the Hirogen and Kazon who were also introduced in Voyager.
For a species that prides themselves on pure logic, they certainly don't seem to notice the logic in being personable and relatable with their counterparts from other species who don't. The majority of Vulcans portrayed on Star Trek were arrogant, conceited, inflexible, and illogically demanding of those around them.
That having been said, both Spock and T'Pol warmed up over the course of their respective series, and became far better characters in the end. Tuvok, not so much.
I agree that it ought to be illogical to knowingly do offense to others in situations where you a) know it's offensive to others and b) you understand that offending an emotional being means you will not be able to get things done efficiently.
I also heard a line in my company's diversity course that was really good, and I'm surprised it's not taught to Vulcans: "Treat others not as YOU want to be treated--but as THEY want to be treated."
That ought to apply to human-Vulcan relations. That way, both sides have to make an effort.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Hyper-evolved borderline cyborg race smart enough to know their star is about to supernova, build a fleet to conduct a mass exodus, and forget to build a second computer big enough to hold their collective history - so they need to steal the Enterprise, only ship with enough data storage on it to hold their complete history...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Hyper-evolved borderline cyborg race smart enough to know their star is about to supernova, build a fleet to conduct a mass exodus, and forget to build a second computer big enough to hold their collective history - so they need to steal the Enterprise, only ship with enough data storage on it to hold their complete history...
As I recall, they weren't building a fleet: they needed the Enterprise computer as a backup for theirs which had been damaged by a nearby supernova event.
There were some very strange species in one VOY episode. Captian Bracksten had been sent back in time with Janeway + ship and crew to earth. They were in america , and this guy had stolen Brackstens time ship. It is on this episode that we see a very strange species. It was a Human, with the spikey hair. Reason I do not like it is beacuse Chakotay did not and that is to modern for me. Sorry
Hopefully I'll come back from my break; this break is fun; I play intellectual games.
As I recall, they weren't building a fleet: they needed the Enterprise computer as a backup for theirs which had been damaged by a nearby supernova event.
IIRC, the reason the Bynars were desperate was that they didn't have enough warning to properly prepare.
I'd like to add that Worf, being essentially an expatriate, had some rather romantic views about his own people. I always thought he adopted the 'romantic' version of what Klingons are supposed to be. For one, it seems to fit a more noble image. For another, it fits better with the values he'd been raised with in the Federation.
Might also have to factor in that he was also the Klingon equivalent of a nobleman and with it comes a certain set of behaviors.
Therefore I submit this. I think Worf tried to follow an ideal Klingon image and kinda made a few wrong conclusions. It shows when he actually has to hang out with his people. He knows all the rituals and how to act in specific social situations. However, he falls flat on his face when he has to try and relax with his fellow Klingons in a more casual setting. When he acts like the ideal Klingon, to other Klingons it looks like he has a painstick up his... well, you know.:D
It's like reading stories about Knights and Chivalry, then looking into the history to find out that Knights weren't really all that Chivalrous.
That all makes sense until you take into account Kahless. He was exactly like Worf. Perhaps, the priests intended it that way. Perhaps, the romantic version of the Klingon is exactly how Klingons were several thousand years ago. It's hard to guess.
That all makes sense until you take into account Kahless. He was exactly like Worf. Perhaps, the priests intended it that way. Perhaps, the romantic version of the Klingon is exactly how Klingons were several thousand years ago. It's hard to guess.
Another thing to consider is technology. Klingons do still continue research and development, but it seems as though their tech growth had slowed greatly ibetween Ent and TNG...
Dirty, stupid, primitive and they think they can just go to settle on a planet which belongs to another race. Hello?? There are enough planets in the galaxy. Search another one! Far away please.
The Aliens I hated
The Giant space Ameoba
The Gaseous cloud that Kirk has a obsession over
Redjac (Not sure if he is part of a race or individual)
The kids from the episode Miri
Tribbles (Must be the klingon in me lol)
Bajorans (Okay so your religious by the prophets get over yourself)
Betazeds
Borg (After so many stories with them getting the TRIBBLE whooped on Voyager this alien got annoying)
Any race that looks follow early earth type history
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I didn't like Betazoids much. The only difference between them and humans was the psychic powers.
The Mintakans were dumb. The episode they featured in had an interesting premise, but race's actual design was extensively lazy, right down to the cheap red plastic bows with vines glued on.
I also disliked the Ocampa. They didn't make any sense at all. Just fragile pixie-children created specifically to be saved by Voyager.
Hate me if you must, but my vote goes for Caitian. Seeing those for the first time in Star Trek IV made me cringe. Cats? Maybe a Dog race would be better, I like Dogs ... eg a lovable Mog
I second this feeling...Cats shouldnt be a species...where are the Canine species....we do need more balance for dog lovers:cool:
I second this feeling...Cats shouldnt be a species...where are the Canine species....we do need more balance for dog lovers:cool:
I actually like the idea of the Caitian, if not the visual design Cryptic went with. The Caitian/Ferasan/Kzinti/Lyran/Mirak species group represented a culture and sentience very different from the typical Trek norm. Like the Gorn, they have the potential to be something genuinely alien. Their mindsets derived from a primarily predatory biology, rather than the more opportunistic omnivorous biology that presumably lead to the roughly fifteen hojillion "humans with funny bumps on their heads" species that populate the galaxy. It's a fun viewpoint to explore.
I think that the race would be much much less "stupid" if the model designs weren't just head-swapped humans with tails and fur. Give them a digitigrade model with a different posture and heads that look more generically "big predator" and less "sentient tabby housecat" and I think folks would like them more.
Kazon -- they were just silly. Not the silliest, but it was just comical to see them manning the bridge of Voyager.
Bajorans -- I wanted to like them because of their history, but their religion was weird and just about every bajoran character was stereotyped into being angry/mood person who hated all cardassians. It got old after Ro Laren.
Andorians -- their antennas and white hair look dorky to me. That's all.
Trill -- they're just weird. It was super bizarre in TNG and it got only slightly better in DS9. Dax didn't help things for me, because I never liked her anyway. I also just really dislike their name; it makes them sound like fairies or something.
Betazoid -- never liked them mainly again because of character association. I wasn't a huge fan of Troi (she pretty much only ever stated the obvious and/or flirted with Riker), her mother gave me the creeps, and the only other major betazoid character I can think of was a serial killer. And, naked weddings? I didn't need that picture of Riker in my head during Nemesis.
bonus: not really a species, but have you noticed how most admirals in Trek are jerks and/or turn out to be evil? Whenever I see an admiral show up in an episode I'm instantly suspicious.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
______________________________________________
Darius (TAC VA) USS Gahreesen (Chel Grett Cruiser), Shomat (SCI VA) ISS Selentic (Mirror DSSV), Napoleon (ENG Capt.) USS Fists of Latinum (Exploration Cruiser), Gothmog (Tac Capt.) IKS Nazgul (Hegh'ta Heavy BoP), Aaesia (Reman Sci Capt) RRW Arien III (Ha'Nom Guardian)
I actually like the idea of the Caitian, if not the visual design Cryptic went with. The Caitian/Ferasan/Kzinti/Lyran/Mirak species group represented a culture and sentience very different from the typical Trek norm. Like the Gorn, they have the potential to be something genuinely alien. Their mindsets derived from a primarily predatory biology, rather than the more opportunistic omnivorous biology that presumably lead to the roughly fifteen hojillion "humans with funny bumps on their heads" species that populate the galaxy. It's a fun viewpoint to explore.
I think that the race would be much much less "stupid" if the model designs weren't just head-swapped humans with tails and fur. Give them a digitigrade model with a different posture and heads that look more generically "big predator" and less "sentient tabby housecat" and I think folks would like them more.
I agree. They need to look more feline. A semi-erect posture would be an easy solution. But all the canon Caitians had an erect posture.
Comments
That's a good point.
I'd like to add that Worf, being essentially an expatriate, had some rather romantic views about his own people. I always thought he adopted the 'romantic' version of what Klingons are supposed to be. For one, it seems to fit a more noble image. For another, it fits better with the values he'd been raised with in the Federation.
Might also have to factor in that he was also the Klingon equivalent of a nobleman and with it comes a certain set of behaviors.
Therefore I submit this. I think Worf tried to follow an ideal Klingon image and kinda made a few wrong conclusions. It shows when he actually has to hang out with his people. He knows all the rituals and how to act in specific social situations. However, he falls flat on his face when he has to try and relax with his fellow Klingons in a more casual setting. When he acts like the ideal Klingon, to other Klingons it looks like he has a painstick up his... well, you know.:D
It's like reading stories about Knights and Chivalry, then looking into the history to find out that Knights weren't really all that Chivalrous.
I think this is the best way to explain it, and it does make a lot of instances in TNG and DS9 make sense. For example there was Edward the Black Prince who was known as the Flower of Earthly Chivalry, and executed men, women, and children when he captured towns.
You know those white suburbanite kids who try too hard to be 'gangsta'?
Yeah... that's Worf. Trying too hard to be Klingon. *LOL*
My character Tsin'xing
Similarly, any 'noble savage/primitive' type race that the writers want us to like - as it inevitably becomes a clumsy morality tale. I am thinking in particular of the Boraalans, and the ones from one of the penultimate episodes of Voyager, where Chakotay and Seven crash and end up living with some stone age types, who eventually have to be saved from the evils of education and modern medicine.
That said, I can't help but notice that the clone of Kahless and the monks of Boreth seem to think fairly similarly to Worf, which is what makes me suspect there are some oft-ignored religious/spiritual writings guiding Worf's conduct.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
No, that doesn't work. Worf is more like the Black kid living with a Mormon family in the middle of Happy Vally Utah trying to be 'gangsta'. :P
That said, I did love the Hirogen and Kazon who were also introduced in Voyager.
For a species that prides themselves on pure logic, they certainly don't seem to notice the logic in being personable and relatable with their counterparts from other species who don't. The majority of Vulcans portrayed on Star Trek were arrogant, conceited, inflexible, and illogically demanding of those around them.
That having been said, both Spock and T'Pol warmed up over the course of their respective series, and became far better characters in the end. Tuvok, not so much.
I also heard a line in my company's diversity course that was really good, and I'm surprised it's not taught to Vulcans: "Treat others not as YOU want to be treated--but as THEY want to be treated."
That ought to apply to human-Vulcan relations. That way, both sides have to make an effort.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Hyper-evolved borderline cyborg race smart enough to know their star is about to supernova, build a fleet to conduct a mass exodus, and forget to build a second computer big enough to hold their collective history - so they need to steal the Enterprise, only ship with enough data storage on it to hold their complete history...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
As I recall, they weren't building a fleet: they needed the Enterprise computer as a backup for theirs which had been damaged by a nearby supernova event.
I hope STO get's better ...
Or maybe he's Carlton?
HE'S CARLTON! *LOL*:D
My character Tsin'xing
That all makes sense until you take into account Kahless. He was exactly like Worf. Perhaps, the priests intended it that way. Perhaps, the romantic version of the Klingon is exactly how Klingons were several thousand years ago. It's hard to guess.
My character Tsin'xing
Dirty, stupid, primitive and they think they can just go to settle on a planet which belongs to another race. Hello?? There are enough planets in the galaxy. Search another one! Far away please.
FED: Matt Torell, Lavinia Molinero, Zindox
KDF: Che'ko Tenda'All
ROM: Ecural Mendak
(Or a pig)
Sorry if my English is bad.
The Giant space Ameoba
The Gaseous cloud that Kirk has a obsession over
Redjac (Not sure if he is part of a race or individual)
The kids from the episode Miri
Tribbles (Must be the klingon in me lol)
Bajorans (Okay so your religious by the prophets get over yourself)
Betazeds
Borg (After so many stories with them getting the TRIBBLE whooped on Voyager this alien got annoying)
Any race that looks follow early earth type history
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Mintakans were dumb. The episode they featured in had an interesting premise, but race's actual design was extensively lazy, right down to the cheap red plastic bows with vines glued on.
I also disliked the Ocampa. They didn't make any sense at all. Just fragile pixie-children created specifically to be saved by Voyager.
My character Tsin'xing
I second this feeling...Cats shouldnt be a species...where are the Canine species....we do need more balance for dog lovers:cool:
I actually like the idea of the Caitian, if not the visual design Cryptic went with. The Caitian/Ferasan/Kzinti/Lyran/Mirak species group represented a culture and sentience very different from the typical Trek norm. Like the Gorn, they have the potential to be something genuinely alien. Their mindsets derived from a primarily predatory biology, rather than the more opportunistic omnivorous biology that presumably lead to the roughly fifteen hojillion "humans with funny bumps on their heads" species that populate the galaxy. It's a fun viewpoint to explore.
I think that the race would be much much less "stupid" if the model designs weren't just head-swapped humans with tails and fur. Give them a digitigrade model with a different posture and heads that look more generically "big predator" and less "sentient tabby housecat" and I think folks would like them more.
Kazon -- they were just silly. Not the silliest, but it was just comical to see them manning the bridge of Voyager.
Bajorans -- I wanted to like them because of their history, but their religion was weird and just about every bajoran character was stereotyped into being angry/mood person who hated all cardassians. It got old after Ro Laren.
Andorians -- their antennas and white hair look dorky to me. That's all.
Trill -- they're just weird. It was super bizarre in TNG and it got only slightly better in DS9. Dax didn't help things for me, because I never liked her anyway. I also just really dislike their name; it makes them sound like fairies or something.
Betazoid -- never liked them mainly again because of character association. I wasn't a huge fan of Troi (she pretty much only ever stated the obvious and/or flirted with Riker), her mother gave me the creeps, and the only other major betazoid character I can think of was a serial killer. And, naked weddings? I didn't need that picture of Riker in my head during Nemesis.
bonus: not really a species, but have you noticed how most admirals in Trek are jerks and/or turn out to be evil? Whenever I see an admiral show up in an episode I'm instantly suspicious.
My character Tsin'xing