I can't figure out why anyone would try to insist what MUST happen to the new universe or people based in it based on probability of the same events unfolding. They don't have to be probable. The writers just have to decide to make them happen.
When has probability EVER been right in Star Trek?
I can think of dozens of times where someone stated that the probability of an event was low or high. And they were never right. Because what happened was what the writer wanted to happen. To get the events the writers needed or arrive at the point that the story was supposed to make.
Probability is a red herring.
If the writers want Tuvok or Picard or Guinan or the Borg, they'll make it happen.
And I'm going to advance predict that they'll setup the introduction of the Borg in this one, with the Borg as the next villains. Missing colonies, maybe. A Borg after the end credits.
And people may complain and say they should do Klingons -- and I'm burned out on the Borg a bit as well. But if I were putting a teaser into the end of the movie to get audiences buzzing for the next one? I'd probably go with the Borg.
Maybe have the next film be about Klingons and Kirk putting aside differences to fight the Borg. Because it would fill seats in a theater.
I can't figure out why anyone would try to insist what MUST happen to the new universe or people based in it based on probability of the same events unfolding. They don't have to be probable. The writers just have to decide to make them happen
.
Even writers can't fight the curve
When has probability EVER been right in Star Trek?
All the time ??
Data and Spock Jadzia and Tuvok (later corpse girl as well) always giving probablities
I can think of dozens of times where someone stated that the probability of an event was low or high. And they were never right. Because what happened was what the writer wanted to happen. To get the events the writers needed or arrive at the point that the story was supposed to make.
and hundreds of times it was right
Example
butter a piece of toast
spread it nice and thick
holding it vertically by the corner over your most expensive carpet drop it
the probability of it landing butter side down is considerably higher than 50%
indeed butter and drop 100 pieces of toast and about 70% will land butter side down (more if the bread is curved , the toast is particularly crispy or the carpet is hard to clean)
this is due to probability And the law of bloody mindedness
Probability is a red herring.
that would be PLOT
If the writers want Tuvok or Picard or Guinan or the Borg, they'll make it happen.
only if they send back another time traveller to save the timeline from kirk
And I'm going to advance predict that they'll setup the introduction of the Borg in this one, with the Borg as the next villains. Missing colonies, maybe. A Borg after the end credits.
And kill the franchise ENTIRELY
Trek fans are totally sick of the Borg
And people may complain and say they should do Klingons -- and I'm burned out on the Borg a bit as well. But if I were putting a teaser into the end of the movie to get audiences buzzing for the next one? I'd probably go with the Borg.
Id go with Spock standing over the body of Kirk with a phaser in his hand firing into the body over and over again
OR the Enterprise being scanned and displayed on a view screen by a Grinning (orignal series ) Gorn
Maybe have the next film be about Klingons and Kirk putting aside differences to fight the Borg. Because it would fill seats in a theater.
Or the Borg and Klingons putting aside their differences to fight Kirk
Er. They can and do. That's what makes writing EFFORT and not simply REPORTING. And even good journalism has this tension to it.
Writing is where you take something, you establish it as improbable, and then you make it happen. How successfully you accomplish that is one measure of how well your writing gets judged.
In ST 2009, they made the original series crew winding up on their familiar places on the Enterprise improbable. Then they made it happen. And maybe didn't do the best job on every technical detail but made it emotionally believable if you turn your brain off.
Writing, narrative, storytelling... All are about taking an event or an outcome, establishing it as improbable, then doing the work to get to that improbable outcome.
A story with a probable outcome isn't a story. It's an anecdote.
For example:
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas. Not a story. There is no incident. Nothing improbable happens. Believable. No work required to convince people.
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas and a shopping cart dented my car on the way out. Story potential. Doesn't require much work. There is an incident. How improbable the chain of events are needs to be played up. Believable but little work required to convince people.
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas and aliens stole them as soon as I left the grocery store. Definitely a story. Requires a lot more work to sell because of its improbability. There is an incident. Something improbable happens. Unbelievable and requires a lot of work.
Er. They can and do. That's what makes writing EFFORT and not simply REPORTING. And even good journalism has this tension to it.
good journalism is 100% factual DEEPLY researched and entirely dull
you can spot a Good news report
the reporter is sitting down , indoors ,infront of a WALL , he speaks plainly and without accent
he does not pretend to interview someone , He does not cut away to an idiot stood in the way of a storm or hiding behind a burning car.
He speaks only proven fact and he does not show emotion
Writing is where you take something, you establish it as improbable, and then you make it happen. How successfully you accomplish that is one measure of how well your writing gets judged.
"you canna change the laws of physics"
and you also can't change the curve
Man climbs tree
Man falls out of tree
Man hits ground
Story
Man climbs tree
Tree explodes
Elephants rain down
Junk
In ST 2009, they made the original series crew winding up on their familiar places on the Enterprise improbable. Then they made it happen. And maybe didn't do the best job on every technical detail but made it emotionally believable if you turn your brain off.
The USS enterprise contains a brewery
one of the consoles is a supermarket check out on its side
theres a photocopier
the computer can't recognise a russian accent
and no they do not wind up in the right places
where is nurse chapel?
Where is Janice rand
Why is spock a perv??
Why is chekov suddenly "transporter chief"
why is sulu portrayed as incompetent merely to let spock play big boy??
Why is uhura a TART?
Writing, narrative, storytelling... All are about taking an event or an outcome, establishing it as improbable, then doing the work to get to that improbable outcome.
Actually its "the art of the possible"
A story with a probable outcome isn't a story. It's an anecdote.
For example:
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas. Not a story. There is no incident. Nothing improbable happens. Believable. No work required to convince people.
Hmm drama
were they TINNED? Frozen? Fresh? were they on special?
did you have a coupon ??
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas and a shopping cart dented my car on the way out. Story potential. Doesn't require much work. There is an incident. How improbable the chain of events are needs to be played up. Believable but little work required to convince people.
-
sounds like a job for a claims firm
I went to the supermarket and bought peas and aliens stole them as soon as I left the grocery store. Definitely a story. Requires a lot more work to sell because of its improbability. There is an incident. Something improbable happens. Unbelievable and requires a lot of work.
And number one would make a good movie
Number two a reasonable episode of CSI new york
And Number three a very bad 30 second cartoon
No work to tell the story = no story.
Storytelling IS the act of fighting the curve.
Storytelling is following the curve in an interesting way
Argue all you want about what should be what.At the end of the day, it will be in in JJ's image. That means it will make no sense, and suck.....with explosions, and lens flare.
Just bring sunglasses to the theatre, and turn off your brain.I don't do drugs, but I bet if I smoked a ton of pot, and watch Abrams Trek, I would like it.
Our clones have mistakes, however there was an episode of tng, "up the long ladder" which consisted of just 5 people having servived, as clones, for over 200 years before signs of replicative fading were taking place.
Pon Farr is Vulcan "mating season," it has nothing at all to do with the planet Vulcan.
Pon farr can happen, and be resolved, anywhere.
And just because the vulcans are few in numbers, does not mean they no longer have a voice.
Gary Mitchell died before birth (his fathers life was not saved by Kirks father)
Garth likewise never lived
its complicated but due to the destruction in the first film almost no one exists from the real universe (for example there has never been a savik a sanik a Tuvok etc)
the destiny of entire planets was erased.
Kirk has no brother (destroyed before birth) thus the intergalactic parasite destroyed countless worlds.
Spocks family is dead Vulcan no longer exists there is no Babel conference and thus the Orions are much much more powerful
the Borg probably win the battle of wolf 359 (because the federation is weaker) etc
Kirk's brother was in the movie...... Where did you get the idea that Mitchell's dad was saved by Kirks? Garth was around before the Kelvin was destroyed so once again you are incorrect. Basically nothing you just posted is true.
He died before his second son was born
he died before he met Gary mitchells DAD and saved him
He died before he met Garth (thus garth also dies)
Garth was a captain while kirk was a cadet (so not much older ) actually the actors were even closer in age
Being slain out of time changed everything
actually somehow Kirk became 20 years younger and went a bit strange as well
William Shatner was only like 3 or 4 years older than Chris Pine when he started on Star Trek and the characters went to the Academy only a few years apart.
Kirk SENIOR not junior knew and interacted with both men mentioned
Its in the "treatment" not the screened episode
anyway
without vulcan im afraid our own era never happens
and the universe will probably end WAY before Picard is born
Now you are just deliberately lying. Kirk's dad never interacted (as far as we know) with Garth or with Mitchell's father. Kirk was the junior son and his brother was shown briefly in the 2009 movie.
Ha we finally worked it out of you! All your arguements, as incorrect as they are, are fueled form your dislike of abramsverse.
But you can take solace in knowing that this timeline exsist congruently with the timeline which we have already witnessed.
You, and I, or anyone else does not have to like it. But he's bringing the dough to paramount so he gets to make whatever story he wants to in the Star Trek universe.
Wasn't Kirks brother in the film? He drives bast him in the car in the beginning.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Kirk was mid-late thirties when chekov was introduced
Chekov (according to SHATNER) was added so that Kirk could be a "father figure" to an Ensign
Do not call people trolls its impolite and makes you look needy
and if you think 37 is "early thirties " you have a poor grasp of maths
And J.J. Trek is set years before that. This is a new Chekov and he's ten years younger than Kirk.
J.J.-verse Kirk is 25 at the end of the film and, I think, a pretty realistic depiction of what a modern 25 year old is like, particularly one who had a hard life.
Guys... this script was co-written by - y'know - the Prometheus guy... Lindelof is a hack of the highest order - don't look for any meaning in anything the guys writes because it's all complete b***ocks and really - he doesn't give a s**t about the Trek fans.
Deep breaths either it'll be fun or it'll suck - but it'll never make any kind of sense.
The only reason the Borg became aware of humanity was due to Q's meddling, avoid Q, avoid the Borg.
Wrong.
When the Enterprise-D first encountered the Borg (as a result of Q's meddling), the Borg cube (wait for it...) was already en-route for Earth... They were already coming. Q accelerated the 'First Contact' between the Federation and the Borg to allow the Federation time to prepare (which wasn't used effectively, hence the whooping at Wolf 359). So why were the Borg already en-route for Earth?
The message the drones sent from the NX 01 was what notified the Borg of the era of the existence of the Federation (as the drones had 24th Century knowledge) and that is why a Borg Cube was then en-route for Earth, which Q then flung the Enterprise-D in front of (because he didn't want to lose his pets...)
Comments
When has probability EVER been right in Star Trek?
I can think of dozens of times where someone stated that the probability of an event was low or high. And they were never right. Because what happened was what the writer wanted to happen. To get the events the writers needed or arrive at the point that the story was supposed to make.
Probability is a red herring.
If the writers want Tuvok or Picard or Guinan or the Borg, they'll make it happen.
And I'm going to advance predict that they'll setup the introduction of the Borg in this one, with the Borg as the next villains. Missing colonies, maybe. A Borg after the end credits.
And people may complain and say they should do Klingons -- and I'm burned out on the Borg a bit as well. But if I were putting a teaser into the end of the movie to get audiences buzzing for the next one? I'd probably go with the Borg.
Maybe have the next film be about Klingons and Kirk putting aside differences to fight the Borg. Because it would fill seats in a theater.
Even writers can't fight the curve
All the time ??
Data and Spock Jadzia and Tuvok (later corpse girl as well) always giving probablities
and hundreds of times it was right
Example
butter a piece of toast
spread it nice and thick
holding it vertically by the corner over your most expensive carpet drop it
the probability of it landing butter side down is considerably higher than 50%
indeed butter and drop 100 pieces of toast and about 70% will land butter side down (more if the bread is curved , the toast is particularly crispy or the carpet is hard to clean)
this is due to probability And the law of bloody mindedness
that would be PLOT
only if they send back another time traveller to save the timeline from kirk
And kill the franchise ENTIRELY
Trek fans are totally sick of the Borg
Id go with Spock standing over the body of Kirk with a phaser in his hand firing into the body over and over again
OR the Enterprise being scanned and displayed on a view screen by a Grinning (orignal series ) Gorn
Or the Borg and Klingons putting aside their differences to fight Kirk
She's not dead.
I understand you want to make up stuff to ease your conflict with JJ Trek, but come on, at least make it reasonable.
If you really want to be clever, you should have said that Kirk is still alive...
If somebody else goes into the Ribbon and finds him then brings him back again.
:rolleyes:
Now you're really being silly.
In the end Starfleet is disbanded and kirk and crew are 1 of the few earth starships that remain.
The Federation breaks apart and Kirk goes it alone.
until perhaps movie 3
JJ is making battlestar Galactica He always was
the phaser has Recoil??
the ships weapons are DHC?
The crew is made up of over sexed teens
Though, let us honest with ourselves, that started with Brannon Braga and Ronald D. Moore.
Er. They can and do. That's what makes writing EFFORT and not simply REPORTING. And even good journalism has this tension to it.
Writing is where you take something, you establish it as improbable, and then you make it happen. How successfully you accomplish that is one measure of how well your writing gets judged.
In ST 2009, they made the original series crew winding up on their familiar places on the Enterprise improbable. Then they made it happen. And maybe didn't do the best job on every technical detail but made it emotionally believable if you turn your brain off.
Writing, narrative, storytelling... All are about taking an event or an outcome, establishing it as improbable, then doing the work to get to that improbable outcome.
A story with a probable outcome isn't a story. It's an anecdote.
For example:
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas. Not a story. There is no incident. Nothing improbable happens. Believable. No work required to convince people.
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas and a shopping cart dented my car on the way out. Story potential. Doesn't require much work. There is an incident. How improbable the chain of events are needs to be played up. Believable but little work required to convince people.
- I went to the supermarket and bought peas and aliens stole them as soon as I left the grocery store. Definitely a story. Requires a lot more work to sell because of its improbability. There is an incident. Something improbable happens. Unbelievable and requires a lot of work.
No work to tell the story = no story.
Storytelling IS the act of fighting the curve.
good journalism is 100% factual DEEPLY researched and entirely dull
you can spot a Good news report
the reporter is sitting down , indoors ,infront of a WALL , he speaks plainly and without accent
he does not pretend to interview someone , He does not cut away to an idiot stood in the way of a storm or hiding behind a burning car.
He speaks only proven fact and he does not show emotion
"you canna change the laws of physics"
and you also can't change the curve
Man climbs tree
Man falls out of tree
Man hits ground
Story
Man climbs tree
Tree explodes
Elephants rain down
Junk
The USS enterprise contains a brewery
one of the consoles is a supermarket check out on its side
theres a photocopier
the computer can't recognise a russian accent
and no they do not wind up in the right places
where is nurse chapel?
Where is Janice rand
Why is spock a perv??
Why is chekov suddenly "transporter chief"
why is sulu portrayed as incompetent merely to let spock play big boy??
Why is uhura a TART?
Actually its "the art of the possible"
Hmm drama
were they TINNED? Frozen? Fresh? were they on special?
did you have a coupon ??
-
sounds like a job for a claims firm
And number one would make a good movie
Number two a reasonable episode of CSI new york
And Number three a very bad 30 second cartoon
Storytelling is following the curve in an interesting way
Argue all you want about what should be what.At the end of the day, it will be in in JJ's image. That means it will make no sense, and suck.....with explosions, and lens flare.
Just bring sunglasses to the theatre, and turn off your brain.I don't do drugs, but I bet if I smoked a ton of pot, and watch Abrams Trek, I would like it.
Pon Farr is Vulcan "mating season," it has nothing at all to do with the planet Vulcan.
Pon farr can happen, and be resolved, anywhere.
And just because the vulcans are few in numbers, does not mean they no longer have a voice.
also his "betrothed" died
Clones never work out
and never will
And look at any federation of states
Does the USA give equal weight to the state of California and Silver lake Nevada??
of course it doesn't
(if anyone here lives in or near silver lake Nevada please let me know I went there once 20 years ago)
Kirk's brother was in the movie...... Where did you get the idea that Mitchell's dad was saved by Kirks? Garth was around before the Kelvin was destroyed so once again you are incorrect. Basically nothing you just posted is true.
Spocks "betrothed" in this time line is Uhura so he'll be fine, even though you did say he wasn't Vulcan.
And the vulcans will always have a voice they are a founding member of the Federation. Trying to compare Trek to real world is fail.
Now heres some more food for you nice troll
Spock is Half vulcan
and JJ is the Troll not those who oppose the attrocity
William Shatner was only like 3 or 4 years older than Chris Pine when he started on Star Trek and the characters went to the Academy only a few years apart.
the new boy is still in short pants
Chekov is supposed to be "like a son" to Kirk
not like an older smarter brother
Now you are just deliberately lying. Kirk's dad never interacted (as far as we know) with Garth or with Mitchell's father. Kirk was the junior son and his brother was shown briefly in the 2009 movie.
But you can take solace in knowing that this timeline exsist congruently with the timeline which we have already witnessed.
You, and I, or anyone else does not have to like it. But he's bringing the dough to paramount so he gets to make whatever story he wants to in the Star Trek universe.
and yes kirks father was a "legend" in starfleet
but hey the NEXT film kills everyone else probably
I Could write a better Trek film than this
indeed so could almost anyone
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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if kirk had a living brother he would not be a suicidal jerk would he
Shatner was in his early 30's and Pine his late 20's. It's pretty obvious now that you are a troll.
Kirk was mid-late thirties when chekov was introduced
Chekov (according to SHATNER) was added so that Kirk could be a "father figure" to an Ensign
Do not call people trolls its impolite and makes you look needy
and if you think 37 is "early thirties " you have a poor grasp of maths
And J.J. Trek is set years before that. This is a new Chekov and he's ten years younger than Kirk.
J.J.-verse Kirk is 25 at the end of the film and, I think, a pretty realistic depiction of what a modern 25 year old is like, particularly one who had a hard life.
The film is set contemporary with when Prime Kirk would have been a Lt. on the Farragut.
Deep breaths
Wrong.
When the Enterprise-D first encountered the Borg (as a result of Q's meddling), the Borg cube (wait for it...) was already en-route for Earth... They were already coming. Q accelerated the 'First Contact' between the Federation and the Borg to allow the Federation time to prepare (which wasn't used effectively, hence the whooping at Wolf 359). So why were the Borg already en-route for Earth?
The message the drones sent from the NX 01 was what notified the Borg of the era of the existence of the Federation (as the drones had 24th Century knowledge) and that is why a Borg Cube was then en-route for Earth, which Q then flung the Enterprise-D in front of (because he didn't want to lose his pets...)
*starts with an explosion along with orchestral music*
"An epic chess game of life and death"
*insert a scene or two of the antagonist doing or saying something antagonistic*
"Love will be challenged"
*insert scene of the love interest in danger*
"friendships will be torn apart"
*insert scene of two protagonists arguing or fighting with each other*
"and sacrifices must be made"
*insert fake-out death scene*
"an explosive action thriller that takes Star Trek..."
*insert more explosions with the title card flying at the screen*
"... Into Darkness!"