It also goes like this get a team... you know why klink teams always lost to fed teams before the tac team changes and people still did premade pvp sometimes....
Its not because the klinks couldn't decloak and POP someone... we could almost every time we would pop *someone*... problem is we would then have to high tail it or die... now we don't need to really high tail it all that often... tac team baby pew pew till the shields are low and then high tail.
Used to be you would get the decloak drop on one person and the score would be 1 to 0 ... perhaps 2 to 0 if you had a good klink team and you timed it right... however almost every time the score was 2 to 2 20 sec later... and the reason most of those fed teams won... is in a lot of cases it was 2 to 5 20 sec after that. lol
There are plenty of ways to survive an alpha strike that don't involve tac team... tac team is just the easy brain dead way to do it... as Bob says... be aware and you won't have any issues.
I've seen 18k+ damage to pop up a few times on my screen when I was doing an alpha strike.
I was using my Tactical Escort Retrofit (not the Fleet variety). I decloaked and used CRF3, APO1, and all the rest of the Tactical officer buff/debuff abilities.
I run 4x phaser DHC [critd]x3, (at the time) 3x purple mk xii phaser relay and 1x blue mk xi phaser relay, Tachyokinetic Converter and Assimilated Module. My passive critical severity is/was at 66+%.
I do not consistently get 18k+ damage. It's only happened a few times and certainly not consistent. But, when I get lucky, I can kill a fully healed escort in two volleys. But, again, I have to be really lucky.
It is utterly pointless to discuss balance with just two single values. Also it would be helpful to know the hull/GDF status of the attacking ship. If this was a lucky near-0%-GDF attack, it's probably not much of an issue.
Im curios. How does one justify this kind of damage from DHC using CRF2:
Edit:
X player deals 17333 (8152) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
X player deals 18045 (8486) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
I had the beta debuff on me and maybe a sensor scan, and the escort was probaly buffed to kingdom comes, but how the blazing heck does one sanction such ridiculous numbers? It makes Thissler look like an amateur in comparison, no offense bud. I got 2 shooted with 2 shot from cannons. 2!!
I on the other hand was buffed with Extend Shields 1, TSS3 on full aux from a cruiser and an EPTS 2 from myself.
I would love a VERY good argument.
I have hit 8k,9k,9k,7k's when I am "buffed to kingdom come" on occasion with my enemy pinned down. Depends on the distance and shields as my buffs are coming online.
Im curios. How does one justify this kind of damage from DHC using CRF2:
Edit:
X player deals 17333 (8152) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
X player deals 18045 (8486) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
I had the beta debuff on me and maybe a sensor scan, and the escort was probaly buffed to kingdom comes, but how the blazing heck does one sanction such ridiculous numbers? It makes Thissler look like an amateur in comparison, no offense bud. I got 2 shooted with 2 shot from cannons. 2!!
I on the other hand was buffed with Extend Shields 1, TSS3 on full aux from a cruiser and an EPTS 2 from myself.
I would love a VERY good argument.
I think you would produce the best argument if you finally stopped using that same old same one character you have, and finally leveled up a tactical escort and saw the challenges you face when getting those critical hits on people. Level another toon, having one toon for 3 years has seriously impaired your judgement on game mechanics.
Otherwise, people can provide any argument they can, but it will make no difference until you finally put yourself in their shoes.
This thread about cannons almost negating them to be deemed as "OP" is a joke. Talk about tric mines instead. Prompt a response by the Devs on getting those fixed.
I'm not spec'd into them and I do more damage with 1 console than my 4 console powered DHCs against NPCs.
To entertain you post however, those numbers actually look normal. Running CrtH, the new romulan console, borg console, tachyokinetic, and being spec'd heavily into energy weapon specialization will make these kinds of critical hits possible (if not higher). The fact it happened is normal, and is really no surprise.
You're flying a Vesta. I fly a Vesta as well. 38k hull is as frail as it gets. So as far as rationalizing how quickly you went down, it really does come down to your own awareness of a buffed up target. If he's buffed, get out of his arc. Make sure you have a tac team up, resists or no resists, you're going down with no shield distribution from a TT.
I solo one shot Trinity in his Engineer Caitian carrier yesterday with my quantum focus phaser. Pointi is, from 1 Vesta captain to another. you got bug guns too.
To be honest im not interested in wether cannons are OP or not, im interested on what justifies such damage, and how often it can be reproduced. Then the follow up offcourse is if this damage output is balanced enough. Sure it can be, and sure it can be not.
Now if im narrowed down to only being able of seeing the game from a science PoV is up for a debate, but to be honest that point is moot. Im posing a question as to how the game is developing from STO to Escort Online. But as Stevehale said, careful planning needs to be considered, and im rather curios on the crtd modifiers. Are they as they should be or not....
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
To be honest im not interested in wether cannons are OP or not, im interested on what justifies such damage, and how often it can be reproduced. Then the follow up offcourse is if this damage output is balanced enough. Sure it can be, and sure it can be not.
Now if im narrowed down to only being able of seeing the game from a science PoV is up for a debate, but to be honest that point is moot. Im posing a question as to how the game is developing from STO to Escort Online. But as Stevehale said, careful planning needs to be considered, and im rather curios on the crtd modifiers. Are they as they should be or not....
Well, ultimately it's hard to say without seeing the logs. (And even then they don't really tell the important parts of the story)
It's quite possible to hit ~18k raw, there are just a lot of factors that go into how it comes out in the end in STO. I mean you can crit for upwards of 60k+ with a DBB, and their base damage is like, what, 250? 300? So there are a lot of crazy multipliers and stuff.
Generally speaking if you keep moving at full impulse and have one or two basic resists up it won't happen, but there are those moments when the stars align...
You're flying a Vesta. I fly a Vesta as well. 38k hull is as frail as it gets. So as far as rationalizing how quickly you went down, it really does come down to your own awareness of a buffed up target. If he's buffed, get out of his arc. Make sure you have a tac team up, resists or no resists, you're going down with no shield distribution from a TT.
I solo one shot Trinity in his Engineer Caitian carrier yesterday with my quantum focus phaser. Pointi is, from 1 Vesta captain to another. you got bug guns too.
I solo one shot Trinity in his Engineer Caitian carrier yesterday with my quantum focus phaser. Pointi is, from 1 Vesta captain to another. you got bug guns too.
How in the world are you getting your QFP up that high? Mine's only ~8k, spread over 15 seconds or whatever. Granted, I'm a Sci and I'm not using any Particle Gens, but still.
best way to get those numbers is be specced for it and find new and interesting ways to immobilize your intended target while stripping his (or her) buffs... and just drop the hammer on them.... as a fellow vesta captain we have bfg's on the Vesta now
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Full buffed i have seen my DHCs crit for over 14k, and my quantums for over 30k. Seems the ratio dhc/quantum is fine to me. Now if that is to much damage is a whole different can.
Im curios. How does one justify this kind of damage from DHC using CRF2:
Edit:
X player deals 17333 (8152) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
X player deals 18045 (8486) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
I had the beta debuff on me and maybe a sensor scan, and the escort was probaly buffed to kingdom comes, but how the blazing heck does one sanction such ridiculous numbers? It makes Thissler look like an amateur in comparison, no offense bud. I got 2 shooted with 2 shot from cannons. 2!!
I on the other hand was buffed with Extend Shields 1, TSS3 on full aux from a cruiser and an EPTS 2 from myself.
I would love a VERY good argument.
Very easy
Debuff the target.
Look at the log the cannons did 8k damage which is very easy to achieve. U had a -100% damage resistance... Which means u had no shields, u were definitly debuffed APB 3, FOMM and Sensor Scan. And its possible to do 17k Crits without the resistance. Oh and it takes 1 APA to buff a cnanon crit to 8k.
Personaly, Buffed to kingdom come yields me 8k base, not 8k crits like u posted. My REALLY buffed to kingdom come can Slaughter ppl doinf 6k-10k Every shot with 20k crits, GDF from 10% will do that.
X player deals 17333 (8152) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
X player deals 18045 (8486) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II..
This doesn't make sense... even if you were running without shields, you'd have to have 60% negative hull resist... and assuming there are diminishing returns on negative as well as positive resists, that would take... -150 resist? so if you'r own resist was +60ish, you'd have to be defuffed 210. barely even possible...
And add to that all the damage negated shields... hmm... doesn't make much sense...
Sure, the raw damage of 8k is not that hard to understand from a crit, but net damage of 18k is just wierd...
Maybe the diminishing returns on resist work opposite on the negative side? Causing a increasingly steep curve of resist loss?
Im curios. How does one justify this kind of damage from DHC using CRF2:
Edit:
X player deals 17333 (8152) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
X player deals 18045 (8486) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
I had the beta debuff on me and maybe a sensor scan, and the escort was probaly buffed to kingdom comes, but how the blazing heck does one sanction such ridiculous numbers? It makes Thissler look like an amateur in comparison, no offense bud. I got 2 shooted with 2 shot from cannons. 2!!
I on the other hand was buffed with Extend Shields 1, TSS3 on full aux from a cruiser and an EPTS 2 from myself.
I would love a VERY good argument.
I found this to be pretty routine in PvP with my disruptor dual heavy cannons mk XII, with the right non-ACC mods. Normally I wouldn't use them due to lack of Acc mod, but if the opposing team aren't highly maneuverable (as in not escorts), I'll stick them on.
In fact that sounds like it was me playing Selia, since when I use those DHCs I'll sometimes use attack pattern beta for the small gap in tactical teams. Then there's the disruptor hull debuff.
I've said it multiple times now, but one of the reasons I don't use torps is that dual heavy cannons are simply SOOOOO good. They fire at a high rate, with each shot dealing only slightly less damage then a quantum torp and when they crit they might as well be a beam overload or a criting torp. This is in fact one of my main reasons for dropping fed cruisers.
As for justification, there is none, other than cryptic made them that powerful.
How in the world are you getting your QFP up that high? Mine's only ~8k, spread over 15 seconds or whatever. Granted, I'm a Sci and I'm not using any Particle Gens, but still.
TRH technology has surpassed Panda technology.
lol jk buddy.
I'm using tactical buffs along side with it. Last night I had a max hit of 13k with mine, I don't think it crits though.
Yeah it's a span of 12 seconds consistent beam of very hot fire. I saw people survive it last night.
You really do need to debuff the target a lot in order for it to be effective at that level. But, it's extremely clutch if you ask me.
I'm sorry, it seemed as though you inferred that conclusion on cannons being OP.
*Big guns. It was a typo.
"STO to Escort Online"
No, and again it's inferring to escorts being OP and the ultimate weapon to have. Every class, variation, ability, etc has a role in this game. Strictly DPS does not dominate all, nor will it. However, it is quite essential to have it in team base play since it is a specific role that must be played on a team. Having too much of it can cost games, and having too little can as well.
"Now if im narrowed down to only being able of seeing the game from a science PoV is up for a debate, but to be honest that point is moot."
No, it is not moot. Because I think a lot of people will agree here, is that experiencing multiple classes or roles is the ultimate method of learning and understanding this game. I'm giving this advice, so you have an enhanced experience in the game, and ultimately more fun. Sure the grind is a pain, but it is very rewarding to be able to see and understand game mechanics on your own rather than take the word of others.
I wouldn't.. Unless I could be sure that they wouldn't also reduce the "DPS" on Dual Cannons as well to keep them in line with each other.
But dual cannons can never crit for such huge numbers.
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Comments
Agreed, but that's been suggested before and the carebears are against it
edit: Usually only RSP can save you or a combo of TT, EPTS, and TS. Anything less and boom.
Preemptive buffing and situational awareness can negate that.
Its not because the klinks couldn't decloak and POP someone... we could almost every time we would pop *someone*... problem is we would then have to high tail it or die... now we don't need to really high tail it all that often... tac team baby pew pew till the shields are low and then high tail.
Used to be you would get the decloak drop on one person and the score would be 1 to 0 ... perhaps 2 to 0 if you had a good klink team and you timed it right... however almost every time the score was 2 to 2 20 sec later... and the reason most of those fed teams won... is in a lot of cases it was 2 to 5 20 sec after that. lol
There are plenty of ways to survive an alpha strike that don't involve tac team... tac team is just the easy brain dead way to do it... as Bob says... be aware and you won't have any issues.
I was using my Tactical Escort Retrofit (not the Fleet variety). I decloaked and used CRF3, APO1, and all the rest of the Tactical officer buff/debuff abilities.
I run 4x phaser DHC [critd]x3, (at the time) 3x purple mk xii phaser relay and 1x blue mk xi phaser relay, Tachyokinetic Converter and Assimilated Module. My passive critical severity is/was at 66+%.
I do not consistently get 18k+ damage. It's only happened a few times and certainly not consistent. But, when I get lucky, I can kill a fully healed escort in two volleys. But, again, I have to be really lucky.
It is utterly pointless to discuss balance with just two single values. Also it would be helpful to know the hull/GDF status of the attacking ship. If this was a lucky near-0%-GDF attack, it's probably not much of an issue.
I wouldn't.. Unless I could be sure that they wouldn't also reduce the "DPS" on Dual Cannons as well to keep them in line with each other.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I have hit 8k,9k,9k,7k's when I am "buffed to kingdom come" on occasion with my enemy pinned down. Depends on the distance and shields as my buffs are coming online.
If only those dual cannons didn't proc so much...
I think you would produce the best argument if you finally stopped using that same old same one character you have, and finally leveled up a tactical escort and saw the challenges you face when getting those critical hits on people. Level another toon, having one toon for 3 years has seriously impaired your judgement on game mechanics.
Otherwise, people can provide any argument they can, but it will make no difference until you finally put yourself in their shoes.
This thread about cannons almost negating them to be deemed as "OP" is a joke. Talk about tric mines instead. Prompt a response by the Devs on getting those fixed.
I'm not spec'd into them and I do more damage with 1 console than my 4 console powered DHCs against NPCs.
To entertain you post however, those numbers actually look normal. Running CrtH, the new romulan console, borg console, tachyokinetic, and being spec'd heavily into energy weapon specialization will make these kinds of critical hits possible (if not higher). The fact it happened is normal, and is really no surprise.
You're flying a Vesta. I fly a Vesta as well. 38k hull is as frail as it gets. So as far as rationalizing how quickly you went down, it really does come down to your own awareness of a buffed up target. If he's buffed, get out of his arc. Make sure you have a tac team up, resists or no resists, you're going down with no shield distribution from a TT.
I solo one shot Trinity in his Engineer Caitian carrier yesterday with my quantum focus phaser. Pointi is, from 1 Vesta captain to another. you got bug guns too.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
First, what are bug guns? :P
And to the response.
To be honest im not interested in wether cannons are OP or not, im interested on what justifies such damage, and how often it can be reproduced. Then the follow up offcourse is if this damage output is balanced enough. Sure it can be, and sure it can be not.
Now if im narrowed down to only being able of seeing the game from a science PoV is up for a debate, but to be honest that point is moot. Im posing a question as to how the game is developing from STO to Escort Online. But as Stevehale said, careful planning needs to be considered, and im rather curios on the crtd modifiers. Are they as they should be or not....
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
dual heavy cannons, phased tetryon. ACCx2
have fun kill bad guys
Well, ultimately it's hard to say without seeing the logs. (And even then they don't really tell the important parts of the story)
It's quite possible to hit ~18k raw, there are just a lot of factors that go into how it comes out in the end in STO. I mean you can crit for upwards of 60k+ with a DBB, and their base damage is like, what, 250? 300? So there are a lot of crazy multipliers and stuff.
Generally speaking if you keep moving at full impulse and have one or two basic resists up it won't happen, but there are those moments when the stars align...
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
^^^
All of this is wisdom even to non-Devoras readers
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
How in the world are you getting your QFP up that high? Mine's only ~8k, spread over 15 seconds or whatever. Granted, I'm a Sci and I'm not using any Particle Gens, but still.
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Fly a BoP as see how frail they can be hullwise. If a good player can keep a BoP alive woth its low hull, 39k should be even easier.
R.I.P
1. Shock
2. Denial
3. Anger
4. Sadness/Depression
5. Numb
6. Acceptance
Come on buddy!!! you can make it to that 6th step!!!
ps. At least you can counter trics.
Is it actually cannons though or the sum of all that is applied both Tac buff and more to make the cannons effective in the end?
I find little issue if the sum of the effect takes skill and timing to pull off over just blind button mashing.
Im a button masher actually, using key binds, and my damage only hits around 6k-8k most days.
So if its legit, i can respect it, but lament I cant do it.
R.I.P
Something to cheer you up with
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Thank you. That did cheer me up.
R.I.P
Very easy
Debuff the target.
Look at the log the cannons did 8k damage which is very easy to achieve. U had a -100% damage resistance... Which means u had no shields, u were definitly debuffed APB 3, FOMM and Sensor Scan. And its possible to do 17k Crits without the resistance. Oh and it takes 1 APA to buff a cnanon crit to 8k.
Personaly, Buffed to kingdom come yields me 8k base, not 8k crits like u posted. My REALLY buffed to kingdom come can Slaughter ppl doinf 6k-10k Every shot with 20k crits, GDF from 10% will do that.
This doesn't make sense... even if you were running without shields, you'd have to have 60% negative hull resist... and assuming there are diminishing returns on negative as well as positive resists, that would take... -150 resist? so if you'r own resist was +60ish, you'd have to be defuffed 210. barely even possible...
And add to that all the damage negated shields... hmm... doesn't make much sense...
Sure, the raw damage of 8k is not that hard to understand from a crit, but net damage of 18k is just wierd...
Maybe the diminishing returns on resist work opposite on the negative side? Causing a increasingly steep curve of resist loss?
Every Fed should watch this before they queue FvK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CayMeza487M
I found this to be pretty routine in PvP with my disruptor dual heavy cannons mk XII, with the right non-ACC mods. Normally I wouldn't use them due to lack of Acc mod, but if the opposing team aren't highly maneuverable (as in not escorts), I'll stick them on.
In fact that sounds like it was me playing Selia, since when I use those DHCs I'll sometimes use attack pattern beta for the small gap in tactical teams. Then there's the disruptor hull debuff.
I've said it multiple times now, but one of the reasons I don't use torps is that dual heavy cannons are simply SOOOOO good. They fire at a high rate, with each shot dealing only slightly less damage then a quantum torp and when they crit they might as well be a beam overload or a criting torp. This is in fact one of my main reasons for dropping fed cruisers.
As for justification, there is none, other than cryptic made them that powerful.
I wouldn't say FOTM, more like FOTL2Y (Feature of the last two years).
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
TRH technology has surpassed Panda technology.
lol jk buddy.
I'm using tactical buffs along side with it. Last night I had a max hit of 13k with mine, I don't think it crits though.
Yeah it's a span of 12 seconds consistent beam of very hot fire. I saw people survive it last night.
You really do need to debuff the target a lot in order for it to be effective at that level. But, it's extremely clutch if you ask me.
@Devoras,
I'm sorry, it seemed as though you inferred that conclusion on cannons being OP.
*Big guns. It was a typo.
"STO to Escort Online"
No, and again it's inferring to escorts being OP and the ultimate weapon to have. Every class, variation, ability, etc has a role in this game. Strictly DPS does not dominate all, nor will it. However, it is quite essential to have it in team base play since it is a specific role that must be played on a team. Having too much of it can cost games, and having too little can as well.
"Now if im narrowed down to only being able of seeing the game from a science PoV is up for a debate, but to be honest that point is moot."
No, it is not moot. Because I think a lot of people will agree here, is that experiencing multiple classes or roles is the ultimate method of learning and understanding this game. I'm giving this advice, so you have an enhanced experience in the game, and ultimately more fun. Sure the grind is a pain, but it is very rewarding to be able to see and understand game mechanics on your own rather than take the word of others.
Good luck.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That makes sense and is legit to me.
R.I.P
But dual cannons can never crit for such huge numbers.
^^this
the cannon hit is "only" for 8k. The killer question is how someone got debuffed enough to make it hit for 18k!