Cannon damage

devorasx

Im curios. How does one justify this kind of damage from DHC using CRF2:

Edit:

X player deals 17333 (8152) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.
X player deals 18045 (8486) Disruptor Damage(Critical) to you with Dual Heavy Disruptor Cannons - Rapid Fire II.

I had the beta debuff on me and maybe a sensor scan, and the escort was probaly buffed to kingdom comes, but how the blazing heck does one sanction such ridiculous numbers? It makes Thissler look like an amateur in comparison, no offense bud. I got 2 shooted with 2 shot from cannons. 2!!

I on the other hand was buffed with Extend Shields 1, TSS3 on full aux from a cruiser and an EPTS 2 from myself.

I would love a VERY good argument.

bitemepwe

A single cannon strike?
Far better than I can do unless it BO2 and a DBB

davidfloresii

I have seen this too.

antoniosalieri

Hmmm don't stop moving... keep the nasty debuffs off you... and when you are see someone huffing Omegas Alphas and Rapid fires in combo... get the heck out of there 45 degree arc.

I know your not saying every cannon shot hitting you is 15k+ cause we all know they are not.

15k+ happens when you forget to worry about those things I mentioned first.

devorasx

antoniosalieri wrote: »

Hmmm don't stop moving... keep the nasty debuffs off you... and when you are see someone huffing Omegas Alphas and Rapid fires in combo... get the heck out of there 45 degree arc.

I know your not saying every cannon shot hitting you is 15k+ cause we all know they are not.

15k+ happens when you forget to worry about those things I mentioned first.

First post edited, and i have combat logs to prove it!

And i was moving lots and being prebuffed with epts. But how the heck this happend is just beyond me.

paxottoman

Distance is also a contributing factor.

devorasx

paxottoman wrote: »

Distance is also a contributing factor.

Offcourse, but that not what im asking!

p2wsucks

Assuming a normal heavy buffed dhc crits is ~8 and you write you were debuffed w/apb, sensor scan, disruptor proc. W/little to no resists to disruptor damage it makes complete sense to me.

Fyi, TT clears most resist debuffs. In a premade you can get an ally to toss you one when you're debuffed that heavy and you have an open window.

EPtS w/o distributing shields or turning doesn't do you much good. TT also will distribute your shields for you.

Fyi, hazzard doffs w/BFI or ramming speed, Hazzard emmiters, APD, Aux2Sif, Polarized Hull, Engineering consoles, various skill tree catagories all boost hull resists. Even some accolades boost resists slightly.

Fyi, TSS, ES, Shield Battery, EPtS (which you used), misc shield attributes, shield power levels boost shield resists. APD reads that it should, but others have told me it doesn't. I haven't confirmed, but see know reason they would claim something falsely.

Edit: After re-reading I see you know most if not all I wrote, but I'm gonna keep it for others to learn from. Also, think what a HY Tric woulda done in that situation. My guess is over 100k.

redricky

Is it the disruptor proc debuff doing way more than it should?

devorasx

17 and 18k makes sense? How? I have NEVER since beta seen such high numbers. And according to the combat log alot of the damage done from the escort doesnt make sense! The damage base is so low on avergae, then how the heck can it reach such high numbers?
If i dont get smacked in the face for violating the EULA, i will post the combat log for all to see.

p2wsucks

redricky wrote: »

Is it the disruptor proc debuff doing way more than it should?

I doubt it. He had 2 other significant resist debuffs on him and only mentioned shield boosts from allies. I could be wrong, but I'm gonna guess he had little to no hull resists for disruptors.

p2wsucks

devorasx wrote: »

17 and 18k makes sense? How? I have NEVER since beta seen such high numbers. And according to the combat log alot of the damage done from the escort doesnt make sense! The damage base is so low on avergae, then how the heck can it reach such high numbers?
If i dont get smacked in the face for violating the EULA, i will post the combat log for all to see.

What were your hull resists for disruptors before the debuffs?

devorasx

p2wsucks wrote: »

What were your hull resists for disruptors before the debuffs?

2 neutroniums.

dontdrunkimshoot

that kind of damage was not dealt by any fancy acc3 weapon...

ive seen max hits about like that myself wile parceling decloak max alphas the other day not that much vs a player's ship though. in pve i've seen more then that even, mid 20s, against a stf gate that was likely even more debuffed then you were.

p2wsucks

devorasx wrote: »

2 neutroniums.

Any additional resists from accolades, doffs, or skill point investment? (not patronizing just if we can run the #s can figure out if it's out of line or not)

Also, do you know which version of ApB you were hit with?

Did they have boosts from Doff missions or unsual p2w consumables?

Did you notice if FoMM was also on you?

antoniosalieri

No need to post a combat log... I have hit 18ks myself... I get 12-14k pretty regular like.

If you are asking if that SHOULD be normal... I don't know perhaps not... but in order to hit those numbers I have to keep my buffs rolling and frankly not be stupid about who I shot at. If someone has a TSS and Extend a hazard or other annoying heals running I ignore them.. and shoot at the person that healed them instead... doing that ya I see 10k+ all the time.

People that average lower cannon crits are either shooting at the wrong targets, or not closing gaps.

If you are saying perhaps the game has to much dmg... well it could be argued but nothing really new there... yes we are getting a +30 to weapon skill now as a passive.. along with a +3% crit... so it is possible you will be seeing these numbers more often now. Not to mention that mk xii blue dmg units are now very cheap... and even mk xii purples are not crazy for EC strapped folk.

davidfloresii

Its the same with the trics, it is OP, the best way to fix this is fixing chain crits. You can still survive one hit of that crit caliber, not a chain of them though.

devorasx

p2wsucks wrote: »

Any additional resists from accolades, doffs, or skill point investment? (not patronizing just if we can run the #s can figure out if it's out of line or not)

Also, do you know which version of ApB you were hit with?

Did they have boosts from Doff missions or unsual p2w consumables?

Did you notice if FoMM was also on you?

Probaly APB 1 or 2. I doubt 3. No buffs from doffs or p2w consumables.
FoMM was maaaybe on me, most likely. I did say the ecort was buffed to kingdom come.

devorasx

antoniosalieri wrote: »

If you are asking if that SHOULD be normal... I don't know perhaps not... but in order to hit those numbers I have to keep my buffs rolling and frankly not be stupid about who I shot at. If someone has a TSS and Extend a hazard or other annoying heals running I ignore them.. and shoot at the person that healed them instead... doing that ya I see 10k+ all the time.

Question will be if such high damage is reasonable. Should one be able to 2 or even 1 pop another ship with cannons? I dont care about trics, as they are targatable and can be dealth with. Secondly im curios if you hit a target with zip nothing resist. I was resisted, i checked it was up to 26% ish. Dunno if that is with or withiout accolades. But still i get nailed for freaking 17 and 18k dmg.

bobtheyak

I occasionally get those numbers but only with rapid fire 3 and a disruptor proc on scantily buffed ships. I'm at a loss to explain that damage on a buffed target :eek:

Oh and I vote for a slight reduction in cannon damage. In my opinion torpedo hybrid builds should do more damage than full cannon builds.

dontdrunkimshoot

wile getting alphaed, would you prefer such a crit, or a phaser proc disabling your shields? hits like that tend to be rare enough to not turn things on their heads, like a bunch of phaser users can.

devorasx

dontdrunkimshoot wrote: »

wile getting alphaed, would you prefer such a crit, or a phaser proc disabling your shields? hits like that tend to be rare enough to not turn things on their heads, like a bunch of phaser users can.

This is a fed ship, so it doesnt benefit from the typical decloak and alpha strike as most klink ships have. And even that does NOT produce such numbers in MY experience. And yes, I would rather prefer the shield disable from phaser procs, because i can counter it with epts. I CANNOT counter 19k hits from bloody cannonfire which happens so sudden and so fast.
When cannon damage do more then torps to hull, then I start to worry.

stevehale

bobtheyak wrote: »

Oh and I vote for a slight reduction in cannon damage. In my opinion torpedo hybrid builds should do more damage than full cannon builds.

If they were going to take aim at full energy builds, it might make sense to give tactical consoles diminishing returns (like resist consoles have). Encourage people to put a little bit of variation in their build.

sonicshower

Cannon damage does not seem to be the problem in my opinion (For whatever it is worth!) The critical hit mods are the ones in in question. I run all dual heavy guns with CtrHx2CtrD with the borg module and the temporal lobi console im up another 1.8 percent crit chance and another 20 percent crit hit damage. Thats alot! Add tac buffs and rapid fire three and it would be hard for you not to land a crit hit on an unbuffed target (or debuffed)

devorasx

stevehale wrote: »

If they were going to take aim at full energy builds, it might make sense to give tactical consoles diminishing returns (like resist consoles have). Encourage people to put a little bit of variation in their build.

Why do i have a feeling that the whole tactical field is just one broken and messed up area? I mean, there are no DR on using multiple tac consoles to weapons type, even TBR which is a science skill got boosted mad by tactical abilites until its fix. At this rate there is no point in rolling an engineer or a science captain (maybe with the exception for SNB) when tacs can boost a variety of skills across all 3 captain fields so extensivly.

Edit: IF the crit damage mod is the guilty one here, the devs needs to look into it as they failed to unveil the unforgiving damage TBR was making (This due to certain skils in the skilltree and tac boosts were quadrupeling the damage).

Im starting to wonder if the new trend is to use crtdamage x3 on your guns and compensate acc with the passive skills and the three consoles (borg, zero-point and tachyokinetic). If so this CAN result in serious gamebreaking numbers which will make any science and cruisers obsolete in pvp.

bobtheyak

Tactical escorts can tank much better than they used to so now it's much easier to do insane damage without having to hit and run. Flying a paper ship would justify ridiculous cannon damage, but sadly it seems the average escort can tank almost as well as a cruiser while doing two or three times a cruiser's effective dps.

stevehale

Whatever is done, if anything, I sincerely hope we can avoid a return to the proverbial "cruisers online" and "sci spam online" of the past.

Adjustments need to be carefully thought out. Addressing yoyo healing, stacking, and disable/hold mechanics all complicate things severely.

devorasx

stevehale wrote: »

Whatever is done, if anything, I sincerely hope we can avoid a return to the proverbial "cruisers online" and "sci spam online" of the past.

Adjustments need to be carefully thought out. Addressing yoyo healing, stacking, and disable/hold mechanics all complicate things severely.

Well its not like Escort online which is the apparent fotm is any better. Its just boring to see a ship go from 100% to 0 in a split second.

p2wsucks

devorasx wrote: »

Question will be if such high damage is reasonable. Should one be able to 2 or even 1 pop another ship with cannons? I dont care about trics, as they are targatable and can be dealth with. Secondly im curios if you hit a target with zip nothing resist. I was resisted, i checked it was up to 26% ish. Dunno if that is with or withiout accolades. But still i get nailed for freaking 17 and 18k dmg.

It sounds to me like you were debuffed to the point of being in negative hull resists. Irrc there are diminishing returns once your resists get into the negative, but still if you had Sensor Scan to strip the 26%, you still had APB on you and potentionally FoMM and disrupter proc driving you into the negative 30-50 (just a guess).

I don't know the damage calculation mechanics, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's determined partially by hull resists. In otherwords, if the based crit w/zero resists were 8-9k w/a nice GDF et al buffs and your hull resists were debuffed to the point of a large negative value I could see it doubling the damage to 18k.

Sci Team shoulda clear the Sensor Scan and TT the other debuffs.

With the rep system, skills, and borg console I know I'm at over 12% critH rate before any buffs and accounting for defense reduction (fyi the 3 part omega coulda reduced your defense rating if they got you w/that as well). So, it is something to keep an eye on. Just not sure if it's something that can happen often enough. Also, keep in mind there are repair options in the rep system based on CritH recieved.

stevehale

devorasx wrote: »

Well its not like Escort online which is the apparent fotm is any better. Its just boring to see a ship go from 100% to 0 in a split second.

Sure, which is why I'm advocating for carefully considered adjustments. If we are just going to keep over correcting then we might as well save a bunch of time by leaving everything alone.

Things, and I don't just mean me personally, still need to die. That's all I'm saying.

antoniosalieri

Bob has it... the issue isn't dmg... its the fact that you don't have to worry as much about healing anymore.

TAC team not Alpha is the real issue.

The fed care bear types will scream no no no don't nerf my super shield button... what they don't seem to think about is the escort shooting at them is using 2 copies of the super shield button to pew pew them with impunity.