I really hope this thread results in a tac/sci fix, there is never a reason for a tactical captain to be better at science than sci captains.. but it is always the case now.
Nerfing tac in general is a bad idea, but limiting their buffs to weapons and weapon type consoles only makes sense.
My main is a tac and my sci character is mad about that.
It's a quadratic dependency! It is rather obvious that you are accidentally multiplying the skill modifier with a value that has already been multiplied by the skill modifier.
This cannot possibly be intentional, because it makes TBR scale with the opposite of "diminishing returns". It's "increasing returns" now! You have have a strictly monotonically increasing non-negative derivative. This is a bad thing.
For people who did not take calculus: This means that going from 200 skill to 201 gives you more additional damage than going from 100 to 101. Each additional skill point becomes more valuable the higher you get your total skill points.
You won't notice this behaviour much when you have only 0-50 skill points, but once you go over 100 it gets really obvious.
Fyi, last I checked the Tetryon weapon proc damage was like this. But, it's still meh so I figured it was intentional.
Edit: But, the +100 5 sec all sci abilities may change that for spikes though knowing you're going to proc in a 5 second window may be a bit much for 1 ship. All 5 ships using Tetryon @ over 300 points in Flow Caps may be another matter.
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I really hope this thread results in a tac/sci fix, there is never a reason for a tactical captain to be better at science than sci captains.. but it is always the case now.
Nerfing tac in general is a bad idea, but limiting their buffs to weapons and weapon type consoles only makes sense.
My main is a tac and my sci character is mad about that.
Sci/Sci is less likely is less likely generate a kill solo than Tac/Sci; far more likely to generate a kill with a wingmen.
Fixed. Hopefully in the build that will go out this week to Tribble, but might not be til the week after.
The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.
This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
PartGen influencing damage to TBR is nothing new, only possibly the scaling of the damage. I've used TBR before only to push away ships/mines, never thought of using it for damage. Now i am maxed in PartGen but this comes at a cost: low shields and points that could have been distributed elsewhere.
It seems we are drawing to yet another sci nerf. Why not? This class should be removed at all, it anyway is not excelling at anything.
The old FlowCap based sci built for dmage (TachBeam and CPB) is useless, due to sci nerfs. SS (except for the possible bug that never affected me personally) is a joke. VM still stands as a bit decent skill and so does FBP. TBR is an useful skill but not solely, you need to couple it with others.
Saying that TBR on a ship with 6 turrets and 3 SBN doffs is ripping a ship apart is not a valid argument. Tactical captains have many more build options to do that. Anyway, 3 SBN doffs are not at all at anyone's hand. So, they are not a real concern in pvp. In tournaments, you can setup whatever rule you want.
Hull resists, HE, BFI/hazard doffs, engine battery, EM and so on. PH gives you immunity. Oh, you don't want to equip those? This is another story.
I say let's nerf VM, TBR and FBP. Sci captains should only cast average heals, ST and SS. Anyway a tac captain and even an engineer best a sci in a sci ship while a sci in any other ship class is also bested by any combo. Even better, remove the science altogether.
After all, tactical captains in escorts find it pure "skill" to destroy a ship in a 4 seconds burst. Pew-pew, no brains, no will and wits to adapt builds, this is how the game should be.
Fixed. Hopefully in the build that will go out this week to Tribble, but might not be til the week after.
The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.
This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
then theres still some time left to try to repulser no win to death! got to wave 9 a few times thanks to this oversight :P
Saying that TBR on a ship with 6 turrets and 3 SBN doffs is ripping a ship apart is not a valid argument. Tactical captains have many more build options to do that. Anyway, 3 SBN doffs are not at all at anyone's hand. So, they are not a real concern in pvp. In tournaments, you can setup whatever rule you want.
the only possible way you could think that is if you have no experience with how bad TBR can be in practice right now. with a single tac buffed activation of TBR3, i can kill a ship 2 times over with at least 1 crit that i will get, through its shields and theres nothing my opponent can do about it. there is no better way for a tactical captain to kill right now.
i can get TBR 1 on an escort with room for only 2 particle consoles to deal 5-6k damage a pulse, directly to hull, its not just sci ships doing this.
Fixed. Hopefully in the build that will go out this week to Tribble, but might not be til the week after.
The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.
This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
out of all the skills ive seen mentioned on the forums, i cant recall ever seeing that tractor beam repulsors ever needed a boost. so why was a standard skill boost being added to it in the first place?
out of all the skills ive seen mentioned on the forums, i cant recall ever seeing that tractor beam repulsors ever needed a boost. so why was a standard skill boost being added to it in the first place?
It was an admitted mistake and they are going to fix it. What more do you want them to say/do?
Fixed. Hopefully in the build that will go out this week to Tribble, but might not be til the week after.
The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.
This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
Mistakes can happen. Thanks for looking into this. To bad it wasn't caught before it was dropped on the live server.
It seems we are drawing to yet another sci nerf. Why not? This class should be removed at all, it anyway is not excelling at anything.
I say let's nerf VM, TBR and FBP. Sci captains should only cast average heals, ST and SS. Anyway a tac captain and even an engineer best a sci in a sci ship while a sci in any other ship class is also bested by any combo. Even better, remove the science altogether.
First off, are you talking about sci ships or sci captains here? You kind of go off on tangents for both. Second, have you ever fielded a serious team with 4 good sci captains on it? People begin to hate you very quickly saying its cheap to bring 4 sci captains on a team....
Yeah scis need more nerfs, their ships and chars are so OP in space atm. :rolleyes:
sci ships do not need a nerf, the problem is TBR combined with attack patterns.
I think if attack patterns will only affect weapon's damage a lot of problems will be solved.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Mistakes can happen. Thanks for looking into this. To bad it wasn't caught before it was dropped on the live server.
Wasn't caught because it wasn't in patch notes. Poor job on Cryptic's part tbh. If such changes happen undocumented, what else can happen ? :rolleyes:
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It was an admitted mistake and they are going to fix it. What more do you want them to say/do?
oh well... it was only admited because it was caught. and i saw a thread a while back that also showed how the cloaking bug was "admited" then changed to "working as intended".
now im not saying this will become that, but why on earth was this even looked at in the first place as "needing" a buff for there to accidently recieve one? i mean someone somewhere had to say "i think that needs a tuneup". someoen then had to have inserted whatever it was that caused it to boost it. and apparently it wasnt documented enough/properly or else their QA would have caught this as well before it went live.
Have to think it really came to attention mainly because of all the folks hitting 8-9 in NWS more than anything... it was kind of funny seeing so much spam for that, eh?
Actually, the new uber-TBR is the first efficient way of fighting Carrier spawn I've seen yet!
In Ker' I managed to fend off two KDF recluse carriers with siphon drones, using nothing but my tac buffs and TBR3+1 +Atobatt1.
I didn't manage to kill them, but at least I managed to keep myself alive and the siphons dead. Should work with Danubes too, as I've had TBR3 crit as high as 28k... lol
First off, are you talking about sci ships or sci captains here? You kind of go off on tangents for both. Second, have you ever fielded a serious team with 4 good sci captains on it? People begin to hate you very quickly saying its cheap to bring 4 sci captains on a team....
There are a lot of these types who seem to think that Sci should be able to do everything: they want the damage of a Tac, the heals of an Eng and the hard CC of a Sci (albeit most don't seem to be familiar with or understand what "crowd control" is).
Again I don't know what STO they're playing, because the one I'm in it's not uncommon to see real teams field 3+ Scis per game. And Sci does not have the monopoly on underpowered or buggy skills, either, in fact I'd say the pain is spread quite evenly between all three classes (Sci arguably has more useful heals/resists/cleanses than Eng, even).
These people need to make up their minds about what they want Sci doing, because if they want the ability to do Tac damage/Eng heal and tote a subnuke for good measure, they're going to be disappointed. I don't know how it was in the past but that's not how the game should be designed.
Again, i think that TBR itself is not the problem but the huge spike damage that it gets from tac buff. That is the real issue. Simply nerfing the TBR instead of addressing the real issue will be another slap in the face of the sci captains. Anyway i was considering to leave my sci only for grinding and roll a tac.
Just because you are lazy or dont know how to counter a skill, it doesnt mean it is actually broken. TBR has a lot of counters:
- hard: PH (makes you immune so its a wasted sci comm skill);
- soft: from consoles to HE, doffs (shield/hazard), EM, engine batteries, Aux to Inertial Dampeners, SS, Aux disable (phasers, VM, beam target subsystem).
Actually, this brings the need to actually think and use brains not only muscles. I know its cool to feel superior by being the God of PVP in a pew pew escort and blow away a ship in 4 seconds but hopefully the devs wont turn the game in a one class one i win built.
Again, i think that TBR itself is not the problem but the huge spike damage that it gets from tac buff. That is the real issue. Simply nerfing the TBR instead of addressing the real issue will be another slap in the face of the sci captains. Anyway i was considering to leave my sci only for grinding and roll a tac.
Just because you are lazy or dont know how to counter a skill, it doesnt mean it is actually broken. TBR has a lot of counters:
- hard: PH (makes you immune so its a wasted sci comm skill);
- soft: from consoles to HE, doffs (shield/hazard), EM, engine batteries, Aux to Inertial Dampeners, SS, Aux disable (phasers, VM, beam target subsystem).
Actually, this brings the need to actually think and use brains not only muscles. I know its cool to feel superior by being the God of PVP in a pew pew escort and blow away a ship in 4 seconds but hopefully the devs wont turn the game in a one class one i win built.
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.
You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).
Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.
You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).
Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?
JM2C, but I doubt AP:O was ever intended to be TBR's counter. In all likelihood, the intent was the other way around. PH, on the otherhand, was certainly meant to be the "lolTractorbeams" skill but doesn't have anywhere near enough up time to stop you from getting murdered by Repulsors.
At this point in time, Repulsors cause so much hull attrition that most ships cannot keep up with the incoming damage, even when not Tac-buffed. For the record, 5k per pulse was where TBR 3 were before the damage scaling on TBR got knocked out of whack.
This whole ordeal has left me with a couple of ideas actually.
The first is I really do enjoy the fact that this has increasing returns. I find that even with full consoles, certain science abilities (shield drains) never quite reach the level of viability they should. Tossing a little bit of extra damage for those who choose to heavily invest in a skill seems fine to me.
Second idea plays off the first, sensor scan really needs some way of interacting with science abilities. In it's current state it serves nothing but boosting direct hull damage; if it also lowered some resistance based skills, offensive sci/sci would gain a bit of ground to offensive tac/sci.
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.
You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).
Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?
You get that with 3+ PartGen consoles and 9 points in PartGen. And, as you said, it is RAW damage not NET.
Yes, it is perfectly fine. As long as it has a hard counter and a lot of soft counters. If i was a tacscort boasting about one hit one ship destroyed, it would have been fine, right?
JM2C, but I doubt AP:O was ever intended to be TBR's counter. In all likelihood, the intent was the other way around. PH, on the otherhand, was certainly meant to be the "lolTractorbeams" skill but doesn't have anywhere near enough up time to stop you from getting murdered by Repulsors.
At this point in time, Repulsors cause so much hull attrition that most ships cannot keep up with the incoming damage, even when not Tac-buffed. For the record, 5k per pulse was where TBR 3 were before the damage scaling on TBR got knocked out of whack.
First, TBR radius is of 5 km while cannons is 10. Surely, they get more effective under 6 km but this is another story. With CSV you can still hit more targets while with TBR you only get one, maybe 2 pulses if you are lucky against 3 targets, than possibly another 2 against one single target.
Secondly, blindly pushing opponents away with TBR is stupid and may cost a match (ruining a team alpha strike or an opportunity strike). I pop up mines and try to fly with TBR so that i push the target away then i push it back to mines.
PH negates TBR and it is a wasted comm skill that may prove a turning point in a dog fight. Are you lazy to slot it or you dont want to change your precious "i win" build? It's fun to stay at the butt of a target and pop it away as a tacscort in a few seconds. It also takes a hell of a mastermind to do that. Hey, it was much easier for me to play sciscort or sci cruiser than a sci in a sci vessel!
Some of you should realize that sci captains, that don't want to fly escorts/cruisers or be limited at a single compulsory role of CC (and even that not effective), want to actually feel they have a chance to do something in pvp other than die the first.
First, TBR radius is of 5 km while cannons is 10. Surely, they get more effective under 6 km but this is another story. With CSV you can still hit more targets while with TBR you only get one, maybe 2 pulses if you are lucky against 3 targets, than possibly another 2 against one single target.
Secondly, blindly pushing opponents away with TBR is stupid and may cost a match (ruining a tean alpha strike or an opportunity strike). I pop up mines and try to fly with TBR so that i push the target away then i push it back to mines.
PH negates TBR and it is a wasted comm skill that may prove a turning point in a dog fight. Are you lazy to slot it or you dont want to change your precious "i win" build? It's fun to stay at the butt of a target and pop it away as a tacscort in a few seconds. It also takes a hell of a mastermind to do that. Hey, it was much easier for me to play sciscort or sci cruiser than a sci in a sci vessel!
Some of you should realize that sci captains, that don't want to fly escorts/cruisers or be limited at a single compulsory role of CC (and even that not effective), want to actually feel they have a chance to do something in pvp other than die the first.
headdesk.
1. with Aux to bat the repel is nearly nuetrelised whilst the damage is unchanged.
2. PH nutreliss the push, it does nothing about the damage, and with DR the resistance effect is minor at best.
Comments
Nerfing tac in general is a bad idea, but limiting their buffs to weapons and weapon type consoles only makes sense.
My main is a tac and my sci character is mad about that.
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Fyi, last I checked the Tetryon weapon proc damage was like this. But, it's still meh so I figured it was intentional.
Edit: But, the +100 5 sec all sci abilities may change that for spikes though knowing you're going to proc in a 5 second window may be a bit much for 1 ship. All 5 ships using Tetryon @ over 300 points in Flow Caps may be another matter.
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Sci/Sci is less likely is less likely generate a kill solo than Tac/Sci; far more likely to generate a kill with a wingmen.
The phrase "whether it was intentional or not" was not meant to imply that it was working as intended, as obviously it was not (as skillfully pointed out by Herbert). What I meant to say was that this could have been intended as a boost to TBR that was implemented incorrectly.
This was not the case. It was simply a case of a standard skill-based boost being added to a power that already possessed one, due to an oversight. The change will be reverted.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It seems we are drawing to yet another sci nerf. Why not? This class should be removed at all, it anyway is not excelling at anything.
The old FlowCap based sci built for dmage (TachBeam and CPB) is useless, due to sci nerfs. SS (except for the possible bug that never affected me personally) is a joke. VM still stands as a bit decent skill and so does FBP. TBR is an useful skill but not solely, you need to couple it with others.
Saying that TBR on a ship with 6 turrets and 3 SBN doffs is ripping a ship apart is not a valid argument. Tactical captains have many more build options to do that. Anyway, 3 SBN doffs are not at all at anyone's hand. So, they are not a real concern in pvp. In tournaments, you can setup whatever rule you want.
Hull resists, HE, BFI/hazard doffs, engine battery, EM and so on. PH gives you immunity. Oh, you don't want to equip those? This is another story.
I say let's nerf VM, TBR and FBP. Sci captains should only cast average heals, ST and SS. Anyway a tac captain and even an engineer best a sci in a sci ship while a sci in any other ship class is also bested by any combo. Even better, remove the science altogether.
After all, tactical captains in escorts find it pure "skill" to destroy a ship in a 4 seconds burst. Pew-pew, no brains, no will and wits to adapt builds, this is how the game should be.
then theres still some time left to try to repulser no win to death! got to wave 9 a few times thanks to this oversight :P
the only possible way you could think that is if you have no experience with how bad TBR can be in practice right now. with a single tac buffed activation of TBR3, i can kill a ship 2 times over with at least 1 crit that i will get, through its shields and theres nothing my opponent can do about it. there is no better way for a tactical captain to kill right now.
i can get TBR 1 on an escort with room for only 2 particle consoles to deal 5-6k damage a pulse, directly to hull, its not just sci ships doing this.
It's Hilbert actually.
Good! Now that's taken care of, how about that Scramble Sensors bug, AMS bug, balance to SN Doffs, and some new pvp maps?
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
out of all the skills ive seen mentioned on the forums, i cant recall ever seeing that tractor beam repulsors ever needed a boost. so why was a standard skill boost being added to it in the first place?
Do you even Science Bro?
It was an admitted mistake and they are going to fix it. What more do you want them to say/do?
@DevolvedOne
Mistakes can happen. Thanks for looking into this. To bad it wasn't caught before it was dropped on the live server.
First off, are you talking about sci ships or sci captains here? You kind of go off on tangents for both. Second, have you ever fielded a serious team with 4 good sci captains on it? People begin to hate you very quickly saying its cheap to bring 4 sci captains on a team....
I think if attack patterns will only affect weapon's damage a lot of problems will be solved.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Wasn't caught because it wasn't in patch notes. Poor job on Cryptic's part tbh. If such changes happen undocumented, what else can happen ? :rolleyes:
oh well... it was only admited because it was caught. and i saw a thread a while back that also showed how the cloaking bug was "admited" then changed to "working as intended".
now im not saying this will become that, but why on earth was this even looked at in the first place as "needing" a buff for there to accidently recieve one? i mean someone somewhere had to say "i think that needs a tuneup". someoen then had to have inserted whatever it was that caused it to boost it. and apparently it wasnt documented enough/properly or else their QA would have caught this as well before it went live.
this is what i was wondering as well. i've seen some other things get posted about, that went live with no mention in any patch notes as well.
Do you even Science Bro?
In Ker' I managed to fend off two KDF recluse carriers with siphon drones, using nothing but my tac buffs and TBR3+1 +Atobatt1.
I didn't manage to kill them, but at least I managed to keep myself alive and the siphons dead. Should work with Danubes too, as I've had TBR3 crit as high as 28k... lol
There are a lot of these types who seem to think that Sci should be able to do everything: they want the damage of a Tac, the heals of an Eng and the hard CC of a Sci (albeit most don't seem to be familiar with or understand what "crowd control" is).
Again I don't know what STO they're playing, because the one I'm in it's not uncommon to see real teams field 3+ Scis per game. And Sci does not have the monopoly on underpowered or buggy skills, either, in fact I'd say the pain is spread quite evenly between all three classes (Sci arguably has more useful heals/resists/cleanses than Eng, even).
These people need to make up their minds about what they want Sci doing, because if they want the ability to do Tac damage/Eng heal and tote a subnuke for good measure, they're going to be disappointed. I don't know how it was in the past but that's not how the game should be designed.
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[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Just because you are lazy or dont know how to counter a skill, it doesnt mean it is actually broken. TBR has a lot of counters:
- hard: PH (makes you immune so its a wasted sci comm skill);
- soft: from consoles to HE, doffs (shield/hazard), EM, engine batteries, Aux to Inertial Dampeners, SS, Aux disable (phasers, VM, beam target subsystem).
Actually, this brings the need to actually think and use brains not only muscles. I know its cool to feel superior by being the God of PVP in a pew pew escort and blow away a ship in 4 seconds but hopefully the devs wont turn the game in a one class one i win built.
This attitude is so baffling to me. Are you thinking before writing what you're saying? TBR is a non-directed skill, it doesn't even need an arc. It has a longer effective range and is far more effective with fewer buffs/specs than cannons will ever be.
You do not have to take TBR at Com, and plenty of skills have one-skill counters. In fact some of TBR's intended counters make the situation worse (APO, Inertial Damps).
Would you care to explain what makes TBR a thinking man's skill, as opposed to escorts which take no thought whatsoever?
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
JM2C, but I doubt AP:O was ever intended to be TBR's counter. In all likelihood, the intent was the other way around. PH, on the otherhand, was certainly meant to be the "lolTractorbeams" skill but doesn't have anywhere near enough up time to stop you from getting murdered by Repulsors.
At this point in time, Repulsors cause so much hull attrition that most ships cannot keep up with the incoming damage, even when not Tac-buffed. For the record, 5k per pulse was where TBR 3 were before the damage scaling on TBR got knocked out of whack.
It's terrible but easy, and these Borg are way cooler than the mess STO and Voyager left us.
The first is I really do enjoy the fact that this has increasing returns. I find that even with full consoles, certain science abilities (shield drains) never quite reach the level of viability they should. Tossing a little bit of extra damage for those who choose to heavily invest in a skill seems fine to me.
Second idea plays off the first, sensor scan really needs some way of interacting with science abilities. In it's current state it serves nothing but boosting direct hull damage; if it also lowered some resistance based skills, offensive sci/sci would gain a bit of ground to offensive tac/sci.
edit: BTW, that's not asking for a buff to TB or PS - just an example of how ridiculous TBR is...
You get that with 3+ PartGen consoles and 9 points in PartGen. And, as you said, it is RAW damage not NET.
Yes, it is perfectly fine. As long as it has a hard counter and a lot of soft counters. If i was a tacscort boasting about one hit one ship destroyed, it would have been fine, right?
First, TBR radius is of 5 km while cannons is 10. Surely, they get more effective under 6 km but this is another story. With CSV you can still hit more targets while with TBR you only get one, maybe 2 pulses if you are lucky against 3 targets, than possibly another 2 against one single target.
Secondly, blindly pushing opponents away with TBR is stupid and may cost a match (ruining a team alpha strike or an opportunity strike). I pop up mines and try to fly with TBR so that i push the target away then i push it back to mines.
PH negates TBR and it is a wasted comm skill that may prove a turning point in a dog fight. Are you lazy to slot it or you dont want to change your precious "i win" build? It's fun to stay at the butt of a target and pop it away as a tacscort in a few seconds. It also takes a hell of a mastermind to do that. Hey, it was much easier for me to play sciscort or sci cruiser than a sci in a sci vessel!
Some of you should realize that sci captains, that don't want to fly escorts/cruisers or be limited at a single compulsory role of CC (and even that not effective), want to actually feel they have a chance to do something in pvp other than die the first.
headdesk.
1. with Aux to bat the repel is nearly nuetrelised whilst the damage is unchanged.
2. PH nutreliss the push, it does nothing about the damage, and with DR the resistance effect is minor at best.