I agree with all of you that temporal backstep is the problem, in this case.
Simple counter, temporal science (cannot equip cannons) and destroyer should not be able to equip mines.
However, some players complained for the patterns that are used with trics, that make them deadly, as a mine from definition should be.
For that the mines need to be redesigned as a weapon, based on the type of the ship.
Solution, based on class of the ship, like the shield modifier equivalent. Escorts get a huge deduction in damage from mines and extra reduction if used in patterns 3, cause the cripple not the kill. Cruisers better modifier with a percentage that should make possible the kill. Science a higher percentage for the kill than cruisers.
Then types should focus on different zone denials. For example, lets say that photons should be spawned in large numbers, target mainly pets and support crafts and cause little damage to actual ships. Plasma, higher plasma hull damage and decimate crew of the ship, countered by hazard emitters. Chroniton cripple the speed and turn rate of the target with a very small chance to take out the engines. Quantum a compo of kinetic damage (hull), crew and turn rate in a moderate scale. Transphasic, some kinetic damage and shield power effect. Trics fragile, but with the ability to kill, of course a small reduction in crit should be applied, tank cruisers builds should should be left with a high hull damage and rarely be killed, only if a crit takes place, but a reduced one.
Moreover, mines should target friendlies, but be more visible to them. If someone is not able to see them even then, then tough luck.
Of course any changes do not happen over night and they need to be tested before implemented, but many people have good ideas about many things, not just mines. Take a fraction of that and you have a more balanced game, without nerfs, without overpowered abilities. And for me it will change the tactics that are used mainly in capture and hold scenarios. Right know the whole game is based on the fact that you do a large amount of damage and you are the king of the game.
My apologies for the long post and please add to these, maybe someone from cryptic will read them and take some ideas that can be implemented.
P.S. Some of the points are mentioned by other members, took the liberty to mention them.
Well it is often true a top end PvE fit normally out damages a top end PvP fit from a raw damage point of view. In PvE you fit more DPS and less tank then PvP.
How can you out heal 125Aux healing skills? Then boost damage without lowering healing skills? I fail to see how unless perhaps use a carrier which is not my style. I am all for improvement setups. Not sure what you mean by lowly pvp healer.
Well, it beats me, but I assume it's just because I don't know how. Era can keep his team alive better than anyone I've come across, and he can tank like almost noone else. At the same time, from the same build, he can deliver more DPS than I've ever been able to squeeze out of a cruiser. (except my tac-bortas..). How he does it? Beats me. But he does! ehm... did?
One thing is for sure: He shifts his power allocation a lot during a match!
Your proposal seems somewhat complicated, especially the part about giving them different values for different ships. It's also not a good idea with many of the new ships fulfilling different roles. Giving extra damage to my Bortas, that is already running with 5 TCD consoles and DPB2, would be a bad idea.
Having mines attack friendlies? Not sure about that, but all mines should have splash damage, affecting anyone nearby, including friendlies. This splash should also include a chance of a weapon-type proc. If this was done, the damage of all mines except tricobs could be raised 25%.
How can you out heal 125Aux healing skills? Then boost damage without lowering healing skills? I fail to see how unless perhaps use a carrier which is not my style. I am all for improvement setups. Not sure what you mean by lowly pvp healer.
125 aux doesnt = best heals.
knowing when to have 125 aux and when touse the heals for the maximum effect are what make a great healer about to do more then just heal.
the only heal Era would ever call for on a team was usually "science team please"
dassemsto yes it is a little bit tricky, but if it is done for shields it can be done for mines as well. The idea is about a modifier added to each ship, based on role. In my post i said only the main idea, categories. If we knew the architect and the game mechanics, it would be easier for all of us to come up with ideas, but we are not working for Cryptic.
From development architecture point of view, when you design a system, it has to modular and you have to keep in mind that changes have to be made in the future, so that redesigning a component or adding a new feature is not so complicated. If you have not made that choice, then yes it is very difficult and whatever we say is just pointless.
I suggested total redesign of the mines. Forget the low cooldowns and the current patterns. I am not suggesting some fix or tweak. As for your Bortas, the modifier should be lower than for example the K't'inga Battle Cruiser Retrofit or Fleet K't'inga Battle Cruiser Retrofit. Another example, carriers could be designed to use mines, but there role is to be a carrier, hence a penalty for using then.
I think that you get my idea. Efficient for some ships that need a role or they can serve the role, adding this as a crowd control weapon and mainly use them for capture and hold scenarios in pvp and for defending in pve. It would add some tactics and some caution to the game especially in pvp capture and hold.
As for your idea of splash effect I think is better than mine, which is target friendlies, and it has my full support.
knowing when to have 125 aux and when touse the heals for the maximum effect are what make a great healer about to do more then just heal.
I need to get better at managing power levels as well.
I remember reading logs of some TSI matches just to see how Era would heal by keeping track of his HE healing and could see how different his power levels would be during a match.
dassemsto yes it is a little bit tricky, but if it is done for shields it can be done for mines as well. The idea is about a modifier added to each ship, based on role. In my post i said only the main idea, categories. If we knew the architect and the game mechanics, it would be easier for all of us to come up with ideas, but we are not working for Cryptic.
From development architecture point of view, when you design a system, it has to modular and you have to keep in mind that changes have to be made in the future, so that redesigning a component or adding a new feature is not so complicated. If you have not made that choice, then yes it is very difficult and whatever we say is just pointless.
well... if Cryptic had made it that way in the first place... Unfortunately, it appears that the Cryptic game engine is not very happy to have the underlying mechanics messed with. They've tried getting FAW right for 1000 days now, and still can't. As opposed to modular design, it appears that everything is knitted together in a web, and pulling on one string affects everything else. The archive cards for ships have had fields for #of wepons, #shield_modifier etc. since launch, and I'm afraid if they add a line for mine damage, STO will break like an old Basic program...
Simple counter, temporal science (cannot equip cannons) and destroyer should not be able to equip mines.
I think it's safe to say that the devs will never make this happen based on the types of changes they've been willing to make in the past. Plus, I abuse mines regularly in ESTFs and suddenly the two current loxbox ships can't equip them? We already get enough PvErs screaming that we cause changes to "their game."
Additionally, all this fix would mean is you need a buddy to drop mines for you when you hit the backsderp.
For that the mines need to be redesigned as a weapon, based on the type of the ship. Again, I don't think the devs will go for this. They just gave mines a pass.
Solution, based on class of the ship, like the shield modifier equivalent. Escorts get a huge deduction in damage from mines and extra reduction if used in patterns 3, cause the cripple not the kill. Cruisers better modifier with a percentage that should make possible the kill. Science a higher percentage for the kill than cruisers. I see where you're going, but tying it to ships doesn't really address the problem some people have with damage. Tac buffs will still come from tac captains and make sure the tric pops you through your shields.
Then types should focus on different zone denials...*snip* Like I said, they just did a pretty huge pass on mines. I don't think it's going to happen again, especially when tric mines seem to be the big offender. People are annoyed by chrono mines but there's not really enough outcry to move the devs to make another pass on every mine.
Of course any changes do not happen over night and they need to be tested *lol*before implemented, but many people have good ideas about many things, not just mines. I love this game, and I have a recent respect for certain Cryptic employees who are committed to communicating with the player base, but I've seen too many things go live to do anything but laugh when I see somebody expect testing from them on a change. I'm not going to rant about it, let's just say I've been conditioned at this point.
Take a fraction of that and you have a more balanced game, without nerfs, without overpowered abilities. Unfortunately that's not the case. We're years in and power creep is reality, exponentially so since lockboxes.
...
Tric mines are balanced on paper. In reality they are a pile of chimpanzee ****. The min/max'er in me appreciates finding ways to overcome the shortcomings on the mines. The competitor in me despairs every time somebody finds a way to make something un-counterable in PvP because I feel like it puts people off of the game. And I don't blame the people who figure this stuff out, it's what we do. I do blame devs who don't respond to exploitable mechanics, and who hand out said mechanics with no testing.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
bitemepwe what do you mean about player ingenuity? Exploit the imbalances?
Software development 101.
They are 3 main cycles in every software creation. Design-Implement-Test.
Testing and quality control became huge in the latter years as more complex software is required. Testing reveals not only development mistakes, but design mistakes as well. If you do not do testing and quality control, then you offer imbalances to be exploited, crashes, bugs, etc.
There is no point arguing about your setup doing more than me as I do not disagree with that. You are an Escort against a healing Cruiser. Compare me to other cruisers or healing cruisers and I can kill targets those cruisers fail to. The point off my setup is to have 25power in weapons, loads in Aux heal people while still dealing decent damage to all the hull targets and groups in STF's. Surly 1500 to 2000dps against hull is not bad for a healer?
I am a bit surprised about your testing as I did extensive testing and found I did 2.2k per shot with torpedoes on shields and 5k against hull. Cluster is 15k ish on shields and 32k ish on hull. Due to half the weapons having AoE I tend to come decent in the DPS chart in group PvP and PvE for a crusier. Doing 32k per weapon shot to a group is always nice.
Once thing I am confused about is DPS as you keep saying it sucks which it does 1v1 but in group PvP and PvE it keeps coming out much better then you say for a cruiser.
You didn't hit 1500 DPS however. You hit 734.
Because my healer can pump more dps than you can in Live Pvp (where resistances are much higher and stronger, as you quickly found out yesterday). My healer also can effectively Force Multiply any friendly Escorts fire, due to the ability to deny enemies Defense Scores, either via lolaron procs, Chron mines/CTMs or Warp Plasma.
I've been able to burn down Bops, Scorts (on my level of play no less) with my Eng Cruisers 7 beam over capped weapon power broadsides. I also know quite certainly that he would have either just as much if not more healing than you would have at the end of a given pvp match, while also needing to heal far less, due to a much higher sustained pressure, and crowd control elements. This is due to several factors 1 I carry a stack of aux batteries to amp up my heals when necessary, 2 between my maco proc and EPS power transfer my aux power is over 100, easily when I'm Cranking. At that same moment my shields are at full 125, power and my weapons are Overcapped. (which means that my Beams hardly have any reduced out put what so ever)
There's a reason why we pvpers set our ships up the way we do. Because PvP forces you to get the most out of a given ship chassis in all departments. Click my cruiser thread and start reading. You'll find it most helpful. It's in my sig for easy to find location.
Your damage per second like I said could Double, and it's still not where it should be. that is the problem. And for your damage to be as "high" as it is, your Defense score suffers tremendously because you have to spend so much time at low throttle to aim your torps. You also, have consumed your lt cmdr, with a Tac Slot, which sacrifices way too many heal slots to be viable for things that you actually require Resistances for, for very little gain (torp spread 3 ain't all that much better than 2 is, and it's certainly not the Bloody Murder the Disco Ball (FAW) is with Acc, CrtH2 beams, to pve/pet targets.
Here's something you'll find interesting. My eng does 3502.24 dps in pve. 7 beams, over capped, a chron mine, and eject warp plas. (kerrat borg). Notice how close that number is to my tac? :P It's Sustained damage, where as the tacs damage is purely Front Loaded. That's the difference. (and again I could have done better, if I weren't in my healer ship, etc) I'll have some pvp numbers for you shortly.
PvP against another Eng Cruiser I scored 1300 DPS. That's against someone with max hull and shield resistances. (what you had when I was shooting you) -and- a high defense score that was comparable to what I had in my Escort. (he was in a vorcha refit with alot of engine power) I could and do score much better than that in Team PvP since my ship is a force multiplier. The reason I didn't score more was because my lovely opponent had a hazard emitters, and a much faster ship. Much harder to Snare with. again in a team though my damage is much more stout and the effects it has on enemy targets is Easily capitalized upon by friendly scorts.
Ghosty, I've been reading all your useful posts for a while now. Would you be opposed to giving me feedback on some builds I've been experimenting with?
Ghosty, I've been reading all your useful posts for a while now. Would you be opposed to giving me feedback on some builds I've been experimenting with?
Thanks
No problem, just post em in my cruiser thread and I'll get to ya when I can
I was not talking about PvP, I was talking about PvE where I do not have a 20%+ miss chance which boosts dps a fair bit and double that on hull or with AoE DPS. Which I thought was decent for a healing build. I believe how 7 beams over capped can do way more DPS than me. Although there are a few targets my build can kill that the 7 beam build cannot. It?s not always as simple as pure DPS.
The Escorts should be killing those targets with ease. Our job is to provide crowd control and sustained damage in STFs, especially.
There is also Burst damage to consider to, but again that really should be the mainstay of the Escorts.
Even if you backed down to just 1 torp, and 7 arrays you'd notice a huge increase in your output, with 0 beam bridge officer skills helping you out.
And like I said in pve my cruiser pumps 3500 dps on average. That's a TRIBBLE ton more than doubling your own. DPS is how you win pve pure and simple as well. Plus I can more easily stop Heavy Torps, by puttting FAW2 on, which is -much- better at stopping heavy plas torps than you can with a spread.
A pvp setup will always be the best setup in STO overall for all content as long as pve and pvp use the exact same game mechanics. That's why our setups are so far and away superior. Damage resistances> bonus bags of hp and shield points after all. Without damage resistances we'd burn down ships easy and fast across the board because we maximised our outputs across the board. Which is also why we have so very high defenses, to negate the damage we can throw out.
I was not talking about PvP, I was talking about PvE where I do not have a 20%+ miss chance which boosts dps a fair bit and double that on hull or with AoE DPS. Which I thought was decent for a healing build. I believe how 7 beams over capped can do way more DPS than me. Although there are a few targets my build can kill that the 7 beam build cannot. It?s not always as simple as pure DPS.
You're saying there's things you can kill that a 7 beam can't?.... Are we talking pve here? And last time I checked pve was only a matter of who killed what fastest which means simple pure dps.
I had a meager 4 percent Kinetic Resistance on my ship. oh and also, Tranny torps? they're bugged I could take my shields off and you'd do the same damage to my nekked hull as you would my shielded one, over all. I spent a full afternoon with 2 friends testing that.
Hmm.....Is this the normal Transphasic Torps or does this also include the Rapid Fire Transphasics?
What about the Transphasic Mines?
I don't mean to derail the thread with an off topic question, but that perked my curosity a little bit.
Also, something I find funny, is that people only mention Dispersal Pattern Beta 3 and Tricobalt torps.
Dispersal Pattern Beta 2 and 1 also provide the same One Crits, all Crits. Just on an obviously smaller Scale. So you don't necessarely need to "Waste" a Cmd slot on it.. it just helps to do so. :P How ever, I will admit, nothing is more entertaining then nearly poping Half a Team in an Arena with DPB3 + Tric Mines. :cool
Edit: And No, I don't use backstep. I don't even have the damn ship(s)
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
So since the majority of ppl here in the forums seems to think these mines are fine, I decided to TRIBBLE around with them last night to see ppls reactions. To counter ppls argument I used as little skill as possible. I simply spammed dispersal pattern and put both my launchers on autofire and just let them launch every 30 secs despite where I was, if I had any tac buffs up, if I was sitting in a Grav well or plasma, etc. i did not change my spec at all and have ZERO points in projectiles. it only took two matches of insta-popping ppl before the heavy aoe team we were fighting started ******** about a "premade" team using tric's. I was the only person running tric's with absolutely no thought as to how or when I launched them and no points spec'd into them. Now imagine 4-5 ppl spec'd for them and actually using them effectively.
Bad part of my experiment last night was that I think it may have caused tick0 to drop team right in the middle of the first match when they saw the first person get vaporized through shields. If your reading this, sorry bout that tick. Jam0 started yelling at me to take them off as well. It only took two matches to get the reaction I expected from the other team and to prove once again that it takes very little skill to just spam these and get lucky. Had there escorts not been running csv and their support ships running plasma and Grav, it would have been even worse. I took them off after that match to go back to a normal energy build.
Btw, wtf kind of argument is it that tric's are ok for pug to use, but not for premades?
So since the majority of ppl here in the forums seems to think these mines are fine, I decided to TRIBBLE around with them last night to see ppls reactions. To counter ppls argument I used as little skill as possible. I simply spammed dispersal pattern and put both my launchers on autofire and just let them launch every 30 secs despite where I was, if I had any tac buffs up, if I was sitting in a Grav well or plasma, etc. i did not change my spec at all and have ZERO points in projectiles. it only took two matches of insta-popping ppl before the heavy aoe team we were fighting started ******** about a "premade" team using tric's. I was the only person running tric's with absolutely no thought as to how or when I launched them and no points spec'd into them. Now imagine 4-5 ppl spec'd for them and actually using them effectively.
Bad part of my experiment last night was that I think it may have caused tick0 to drop team right in the middle of the first match when they saw the first person get vaporized through shields. If your reading this, sorry bout that tick. Jam0 started yelling at me to take them off as well. It only took two matches to get the reaction I expected from the other team and to prove once again that it takes very little skill to just spam these and get lucky. Had there escorts not been running csv and their support ships running plasma and Grav, it would have been even worse. I took them off after that match to go back to a normal energy build.
Btw, wtf kind of argument is it that tric's are ok for pug to use, but not for premades?
Now try it without Dispersal Patterns (which is known to be bugged) and see what sort of reaction you garner.
You're saying there's things you can kill that a 7 beam can't?.... Are we talking pve here? And last time I checked pve was only a matter of who killed what fastest which means simple pure dps.
In PvP I keep coming across people that can tank the cruiser beam boat due to strong shield tanks but die with shields up to the torp boat and high bleedthough. Likewise sometimes it?s the other way around and the beam boat kills what the torpedo boat cannot. Not tested the beam boat in PvE STF's yet although it worked well in SB24.
If it's a bug - something glitched on my side - tied into the account - that would actually be pretty damn nifty. Changing that option only changes if they show when launched or when they've targeted somebody and started moving toward them...
...I had assumed that was the way it was for everybody. I've flown Torp/Mine Escorts where I've got front and rear Breen Clusters as well as DPB'ing a Trans launcher. Folks might pop the cluster before it expands - but folks flew right into that mine spam as if they were flying blind all the time.
edit: Heck, I've seen folks doing the same thing I have to do in Gorn - slowboat, wait for them to appear, and frag them then...
Forgot to post screens I took last night showing various mines being visible at 22km I'll post screens of my settings also.
bitemepwe what do you mean about player ingenuity? Exploit the imbalances?
INGENUITY.
In this case someone took the Tric mines, long thought useless in combat before the changes, and with EWP, AMS and other legitimate game abilities and made them useful in combat.
INGENUITY
Forgot to post screens I took last night showing various mines being visible at 22km I'll post screens of my settings also.
That's kind of twisted and has me ticked off... even earlier this morning, I'm flying along - watching another guy fly off to the side. There's no enemy ships. Then a moment later - the mines appear and start tracking him.
It's weird that drones/fighters show without issue - but mines...meh. Somebody launches them, they're visible until they activate, and then they disappear. They do not reappear again until they've targeted somebody and begin to move toward them...
Friendly mines - no issue - friendly DPB spam out the wahzoo will show on the screen. Enemy mines though - only as I described above.
On the HUD tab:
Region - Space
Everything is set to On.
Reticle is Outline.
Standard Audio.
Hide Tooltips.
Astrometric are all on.
Then everything down to my name/health is set to Always. Only the Always is checked, none of the other boxes are checked - just Always for everything down to the "Yourself" section. Those are set at Never.
edit: I never bothered to click a friendly mine before - not sure why I didn't - but yeah, they're showing MES. So just a simple case that your Sensors are high enough to see through the MES, eh?
So since the majority of ppl here in the forums seems to think these mines are fine, I decided to TRIBBLE around with them last night to see ppls reactions. To counter ppls argument I used as little skill as possible. I simply spammed dispersal pattern and put both my launchers on autofire and just let them launch every 30 secs despite where I was, if I had any tac buffs up, if I was sitting in a Grav well or plasma, etc. i did not change my spec at all and have ZERO points in projectiles. it only took two matches of insta-popping ppl before the heavy aoe team we were fighting started ******** about a "premade" team using tric's. I was the only person running tric's with absolutely no thought as to how or when I launched them and no points spec'd into them. Now imagine 4-5 ppl spec'd for them and actually using them effectively.
Bad part of my experiment last night was that I think it may have caused tick0 to drop team right in the middle of the first match when they saw the first person get vaporized through shields. If your reading this, sorry bout that tick. Jam0 started yelling at me to take them off as well. It only took two matches to get the reaction I expected from the other team and to prove once again that it takes very little skill to just spam these and get lucky. Had there escorts not been running csv and their support ships running plasma and Grav, it would have been even worse. I took them off after that match to go back to a normal energy build.
Btw, wtf kind of argument is it that tric's are ok for pug to use, but not for premades?
That's kind of twisted and has me ticked off... even earlier this morning, I'm flying along - watching another guy fly off to the side. There's no enemy ships. Then a moment later - the mines appear and start tracking him.
It's weird that drones/fighters show without issue - but mines...meh. Somebody launches them, they're visible until they activate, and then they disappear. They do not reappear again until they've targeted somebody and begin to move toward them...
Friendly mines - no issue - friendly DPB spam out the wahzoo will show on the screen. Enemy mines though - only as I described above.
On the HUD tab:
Region - Space
Everything is set to On.
Reticle is Outline.
Standard Audio.
Hide Tooltips.
Astrometric are all on.
Then everything down to my name/health is set to Always. Only the Always is checked, none of the other boxes are checked - just Always for everything down to the "Yourself" section. Those are set at Never.
edit: I never bothered to click a friendly mine before - not sure why I didn't - but yeah, they're showing MES. So just a simple case that your Sensors are high enough to see through the MES, eh?
Mmm nope think I was on my tac at the time and I never put points into sensors on even my sci builds.
But I'll be ingame in about 4hrs from now grab any mine type u have and pm me @kapla1755 will see if I can see mines u drop and snap some screens for comparision.
bitemepwe for me it is not ingenuity for a weapon to do what it is supposed to do. Mines as a weapon should and must cause fear. Otherwise as I said they must not be called mines, by definition only.
As for people complaining yes, changes always are not welcomed. My tac toon uses transphasic (I tried trics for 1 game but instead of focusing on using my cannons I tried to find the perfect time to deploy them and that frustrate me) and only just to feel a gap, my cannons are more than able to do damage and yes I was destroyed by trics, without complaining, I accept it because I understand the purpose of mines. I use trics in my science ship, torpedo and mine before this post started, because I do not have the mobility of the escort, the damage capacity of my escort and in the beggining just for the after effect.
When I tested them with autofire, they were not affective, maybe I was not that lucky. For me the cooldown is 45sec, not 30 sec.
There is a lot of material to read on mines and the power they have as a weapon (damage, morality effect) in real life that will blow your mind away. We are arguing about a subject in game that it does not do as any harm just destroy a graphic ship. Is there a scoreboard that I do not know. Something of a prize that you win if you are not destroyed by one? Or it is just pure selfishness that something messes with our perfect world in the game? But still remains a game and some times you win sometimes you loose, by mines, leeches, superior opponents/builds. Personally I would not loose my sleep over it. I will discuss it here, read opinions, argue and pass my time in order to clear my head from problems that really matter.
My apologies for my "crescendo" and if I offended anyone indirectly.
Comments
Simple counter, temporal science (cannot equip cannons) and destroyer should not be able to equip mines.
However, some players complained for the patterns that are used with trics, that make them deadly, as a mine from definition should be.
For that the mines need to be redesigned as a weapon, based on the type of the ship.
Solution, based on class of the ship, like the shield modifier equivalent. Escorts get a huge deduction in damage from mines and extra reduction if used in patterns 3, cause the cripple not the kill. Cruisers better modifier with a percentage that should make possible the kill. Science a higher percentage for the kill than cruisers.
Then types should focus on different zone denials. For example, lets say that photons should be spawned in large numbers, target mainly pets and support crafts and cause little damage to actual ships. Plasma, higher plasma hull damage and decimate crew of the ship, countered by hazard emitters. Chroniton cripple the speed and turn rate of the target with a very small chance to take out the engines. Quantum a compo of kinetic damage (hull), crew and turn rate in a moderate scale. Transphasic, some kinetic damage and shield power effect. Trics fragile, but with the ability to kill, of course a small reduction in crit should be applied, tank cruisers builds should should be left with a high hull damage and rarely be killed, only if a crit takes place, but a reduced one.
Moreover, mines should target friendlies, but be more visible to them. If someone is not able to see them even then, then tough luck.
Of course any changes do not happen over night and they need to be tested before implemented, but many people have good ideas about many things, not just mines. Take a fraction of that and you have a more balanced game, without nerfs, without overpowered abilities. And for me it will change the tactics that are used mainly in capture and hold scenarios. Right know the whole game is based on the fact that you do a large amount of damage and you are the king of the game.
My apologies for the long post and please add to these, maybe someone from cryptic will read them and take some ideas that can be implemented.
P.S. Some of the points are mentioned by other members, took the liberty to mention them.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
Well, it beats me, but I assume it's just because I don't know how. Era can keep his team alive better than anyone I've come across, and he can tank like almost noone else. At the same time, from the same build, he can deliver more DPS than I've ever been able to squeeze out of a cruiser. (except my tac-bortas..). How he does it? Beats me. But he does! ehm... did?
One thing is for sure: He shifts his power allocation a lot during a match!
Your proposal seems somewhat complicated, especially the part about giving them different values for different ships. It's also not a good idea with many of the new ships fulfilling different roles. Giving extra damage to my Bortas, that is already running with 5 TCD consoles and DPB2, would be a bad idea.
Having mines attack friendlies? Not sure about that, but all mines should have splash damage, affecting anyone nearby, including friendlies. This splash should also include a chance of a weapon-type proc. If this was done, the damage of all mines except tricobs could be raised 25%.
125 aux doesnt = best heals.
knowing when to have 125 aux and when touse the heals for the maximum effect are what make a great healer about to do more then just heal.
the only heal Era would ever call for on a team was usually "science team please"
From development architecture point of view, when you design a system, it has to modular and you have to keep in mind that changes have to be made in the future, so that redesigning a component or adding a new feature is not so complicated. If you have not made that choice, then yes it is very difficult and whatever we say is just pointless.
I suggested total redesign of the mines. Forget the low cooldowns and the current patterns. I am not suggesting some fix or tweak. As for your Bortas, the modifier should be lower than for example the K't'inga Battle Cruiser Retrofit or Fleet K't'inga Battle Cruiser Retrofit. Another example, carriers could be designed to use mines, but there role is to be a carrier, hence a penalty for using then.
I think that you get my idea. Efficient for some ships that need a role or they can serve the role, adding this as a crowd control weapon and mainly use them for capture and hold scenarios in pvp and for defending in pve. It would add some tactics and some caution to the game especially in pvp capture and hold.
As for your idea of splash effect I think is better than mine, which is target friendlies, and it has my full support.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
I need to get better at managing power levels as well.
I remember reading logs of some TSI matches just to see how Era would heal by keeping track of his HE healing and could see how different his power levels would be during a match.
well... if Cryptic had made it that way in the first place... Unfortunately, it appears that the Cryptic game engine is not very happy to have the underlying mechanics messed with. They've tried getting FAW right for 1000 days now, and still can't. As opposed to modular design, it appears that everything is knitted together in a web, and pulling on one string affects everything else. The archive cards for ships have had fields for #of wepons, #shield_modifier etc. since launch, and I'm afraid if they add a line for mine damage, STO will break like an old Basic program...
GOTO LINE #126
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
By they way some of the money that they get from lockboxes can go to a new design.
Make the devs happy, by making their job easier, making as happy as well by offering more balance.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
R.I.P
THATS THE SPIRIT! this is pretty much how 99% of the pvp player base feels, and its usually proven true each time.
take a look at the latest, the siphion drone "fix" doesnt actually fix the issue (like it was warned it wouldnt)
and it'll probably stay that way.
or the new awesome op things we can "earn" from the personal rep system doing pve.
...
i seriously think they hate us.
:eek:
bitemepwe what do you mean about player ingenuity? Exploit the imbalances?
Software development 101.
They are 3 main cycles in every software creation. Design-Implement-Test.
Testing and quality control became huge in the latter years as more complex software is required. Testing reveals not only development mistakes, but design mistakes as well. If you do not do testing and quality control, then you offer imbalances to be exploited, crashes, bugs, etc.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
You didn't hit 1500 DPS however. You hit 734.
Because my healer can pump more dps than you can in Live Pvp (where resistances are much higher and stronger, as you quickly found out yesterday). My healer also can effectively Force Multiply any friendly Escorts fire, due to the ability to deny enemies Defense Scores, either via lolaron procs, Chron mines/CTMs or Warp Plasma.
I've been able to burn down Bops, Scorts (on my level of play no less) with my Eng Cruisers 7 beam over capped weapon power broadsides. I also know quite certainly that he would have either just as much if not more healing than you would have at the end of a given pvp match, while also needing to heal far less, due to a much higher sustained pressure, and crowd control elements. This is due to several factors 1 I carry a stack of aux batteries to amp up my heals when necessary, 2 between my maco proc and EPS power transfer my aux power is over 100, easily when I'm Cranking. At that same moment my shields are at full 125, power and my weapons are Overcapped. (which means that my Beams hardly have any reduced out put what so ever)
There's a reason why we pvpers set our ships up the way we do. Because PvP forces you to get the most out of a given ship chassis in all departments. Click my cruiser thread and start reading. You'll find it most helpful. It's in my sig for easy to find location.
Your damage per second like I said could Double, and it's still not where it should be. that is the problem. And for your damage to be as "high" as it is, your Defense score suffers tremendously because you have to spend so much time at low throttle to aim your torps. You also, have consumed your lt cmdr, with a Tac Slot, which sacrifices way too many heal slots to be viable for things that you actually require Resistances for, for very little gain (torp spread 3 ain't all that much better than 2 is, and it's certainly not the Bloody Murder the Disco Ball (FAW) is with Acc, CrtH2 beams, to pve/pet targets.
Here's something you'll find interesting. My eng does 3502.24 dps in pve. 7 beams, over capped, a chron mine, and eject warp plas. (kerrat borg). Notice how close that number is to my tac? :P It's Sustained damage, where as the tacs damage is purely Front Loaded. That's the difference. (and again I could have done better, if I weren't in my healer ship, etc) I'll have some pvp numbers for you shortly.
PvP against another Eng Cruiser I scored 1300 DPS. That's against someone with max hull and shield resistances. (what you had when I was shooting you) -and- a high defense score that was comparable to what I had in my Escort. (he was in a vorcha refit with alot of engine power) I could and do score much better than that in Team PvP since my ship is a force multiplier. The reason I didn't score more was because my lovely opponent had a hazard emitters, and a much faster ship. Much harder to Snare with. again in a team though my damage is much more stout and the effects it has on enemy targets is Easily capitalized upon by friendly scorts.
Thanks
welcome to the club! we've been looking forward to STO v2.0 for more than a year already!
No problem, just post em in my cruiser thread and I'll get to ya when I can
They're both support builds. But they have decent offensive capability as well. (I think)
There is also Burst damage to consider to, but again that really should be the mainstay of the Escorts.
Even if you backed down to just 1 torp, and 7 arrays you'd notice a huge increase in your output, with 0 beam bridge officer skills helping you out.
And like I said in pve my cruiser pumps 3500 dps on average. That's a TRIBBLE ton more than doubling your own. DPS is how you win pve pure and simple as well. Plus I can more easily stop Heavy Torps, by puttting FAW2 on, which is -much- better at stopping heavy plas torps than you can with a spread.
A pvp setup will always be the best setup in STO overall for all content as long as pve and pvp use the exact same game mechanics. That's why our setups are so far and away superior. Damage resistances> bonus bags of hp and shield points after all. Without damage resistances we'd burn down ships easy and fast across the board because we maximised our outputs across the board. Which is also why we have so very high defenses, to negate the damage we can throw out.
You're saying there's things you can kill that a 7 beam can't?.... Are we talking pve here? And last time I checked pve was only a matter of who killed what fastest which means simple pure dps.
Hmm.....Is this the normal Transphasic Torps or does this also include the Rapid Fire Transphasics?
What about the Transphasic Mines?
I don't mean to derail the thread with an off topic question, but that perked my curosity a little bit.
Also, something I find funny, is that people only mention Dispersal Pattern Beta 3 and Tricobalt torps.
Dispersal Pattern Beta 2 and 1 also provide the same One Crits, all Crits. Just on an obviously smaller Scale. So you don't necessarely need to "Waste" a Cmd slot on it.. it just helps to do so. :P How ever, I will admit, nothing is more entertaining then nearly poping Half a Team in an Arena with DPB3 + Tric Mines. :cool
Edit: And No, I don't use backstep. I don't even have the damn ship(s)
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Bad part of my experiment last night was that I think it may have caused tick0 to drop team right in the middle of the first match when they saw the first person get vaporized through shields. If your reading this, sorry bout that tick. Jam0 started yelling at me to take them off as well. It only took two matches to get the reaction I expected from the other team and to prove once again that it takes very little skill to just spam these and get lucky. Had there escorts not been running csv and their support ships running plasma and Grav, it would have been even worse. I took them off after that match to go back to a normal energy build.
Btw, wtf kind of argument is it that tric's are ok for pug to use, but not for premades?
Now try it without Dispersal Patterns (which is known to be bugged) and see what sort of reaction you garner.
R.I.P
Forgot to post screens I took last night showing various mines being visible at 22km I'll post screens of my settings also.
R.I.P
That's kind of twisted and has me ticked off... even earlier this morning, I'm flying along - watching another guy fly off to the side. There's no enemy ships. Then a moment later - the mines appear and start tracking him.
It's weird that drones/fighters show without issue - but mines...meh. Somebody launches them, they're visible until they activate, and then they disappear. They do not reappear again until they've targeted somebody and begin to move toward them...
Friendly mines - no issue - friendly DPB spam out the wahzoo will show on the screen. Enemy mines though - only as I described above.
On the HUD tab:
Region - Space
Everything is set to On.
Reticle is Outline.
Standard Audio.
Hide Tooltips.
Astrometric are all on.
Then everything down to my name/health is set to Always. Only the Always is checked, none of the other boxes are checked - just Always for everything down to the "Yourself" section. Those are set at Never.
edit: I never bothered to click a friendly mine before - not sure why I didn't - but yeah, they're showing MES. So just a simple case that your Sensors are high enough to see through the MES, eh?
He did...:rolleyes:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Mmm nope think I was on my tac at the time and I never put points into sensors on even my sci builds.
But I'll be ingame in about 4hrs from now grab any mine type u have and pm me @kapla1755 will see if I can see mines u drop and snap some screens for comparision.
As for people complaining yes, changes always are not welcomed. My tac toon uses transphasic (I tried trics for 1 game but instead of focusing on using my cannons I tried to find the perfect time to deploy them and that frustrate me) and only just to feel a gap, my cannons are more than able to do damage and yes I was destroyed by trics, without complaining, I accept it because I understand the purpose of mines. I use trics in my science ship, torpedo and mine before this post started, because I do not have the mobility of the escort, the damage capacity of my escort and in the beggining just for the after effect.
When I tested them with autofire, they were not affective, maybe I was not that lucky. For me the cooldown is 45sec, not 30 sec.
There is a lot of material to read on mines and the power they have as a weapon (damage, morality effect) in real life that will blow your mind away. We are arguing about a subject in game that it does not do as any harm just destroy a graphic ship. Is there a scoreboard that I do not know. Something of a prize that you win if you are not destroyed by one? Or it is just pure selfishness that something messes with our perfect world in the game? But still remains a game and some times you win sometimes you loose, by mines, leeches, superior opponents/builds. Personally I would not loose my sleep over it. I will discuss it here, read opinions, argue and pass my time in order to clear my head from problems that really matter.
My apologies for my "crescendo" and if I offended anyone indirectly.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}