I have no problem tanking Borg that setup I used would normal never die against Borg short of a lucky critical which I might even survive just. The thing with the borg is they hit hit hard every so often but have a gap letting you heal. For sure the Borg hit harder per shot but I am not sure Borg sustained DPS is as high as Escorts in PvP. That and you can stack up resistance against Borg weapons. EDIT: One 40% Kinetic resistance, One Plasma resistance and you should be mostly ok for PvE Borg.
I am open to you helping me build a good energy DPS cruiser.
Are you open to changing your thinking completely? Because talk about effectively tanking the borg is like listening to you describe how awesome your breaststroke is on land. While you sit there healing the optional clock is ticking away.
I run my ESTF MVAM build to get optionals in spite of people who think like you.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I have no problem tanking Borg that setup I used would normal never die against Borg short of a lucky critical which I might even survive just. The thing with the borg is they hit hit hard every so often but have a gap letting you heal. For sure the Borg hit harder per shot but I am not sure Borg sustained DPS is as high as Escorts in PvP. That and you can stack up resistance against Borg weapons. EDIT: One 40% Kinetic resistance, One Plasma resistance and you should be mostly ok for PvE Borg.
I am open to you helping me build a good energy DPS cruiser.
lol really? i can solo a dock on cure elite. but you know how many times i need to eavicive away just to heal? i doubt you can surive a borg crit. reason is my first volley almost killed you and you got a borg heal. in truth logimo on his tact fail carrier tanked more then you and put out more dps from his fail fpb.
and my pvp build still works better then people that just pve stf all day. i run 1 armor console and my resist are at 24.6% and i think kentic is 19.? my point is against a person that knows how to make an engy oddy build would actually have hurt me and never let me take them down that fast. atleast give mav's skill point and bo lay out a try. but torp spead 3? on an oddy? can u even turn fast enough to get a group of bop?
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
Are you open to changing your thinking completely? Because talk about effectively tanking the borg is like listening to you describe how awesome your breaststroke is on land. While you sit there healing the optional clock is ticking away.
I run my ESTF MVAM build to get optionals in spite of people who think like you.
Changeing my thinking yes I would but not completely as I much prefers cruisers. Yes I know Escorts are best but I do not get on with the feel for them. But I am up for a high DPS energy build cruiser. I was thinking about logging into game now and looking at x1 beam with beam overload with a cannon setup. Or any other setup with a LT Tac and LT commander Tac on a Sov refit.
What is wrong with my build for optional's? It?s good enough for probe duty or it can kill hull targets fast due to 33k damage single shots none crit. (fast for cruisers I would have thought). Anyway time to work on improvements.
Changeing my thinking yes I would but not completely as I much prefers cruisers. Yes I know Escorts are best but I do not get on with the feel for them. But I am up for a high DPS energy build cruiser. I was thinking about logging into game now and looking at x1 beam with beam overload with a cannon setup. Or any other setup with a LT Tac and LT commander Tac on a Sov refit.
What is wrong with my build for optional's? It?s good enough for probe duty or it can kill hull targets fast due to 33k damage single shots none crit. (fast for cruisers I would have thought). Anyway time to work on improvements.
dude ur in a oddy..........dont use cannons or turrents. and u cant use dhc. go 8 beams. eptw x2 epts x2 use your epts transfere. bats and everything else. with 8 beams i can keep my wep power above 125 wep cap. but these mines and torps..............maybe use tric mines put 2 on your ship so every 30 sec u can let them go.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
dude ur in a oddy..........dont use cannons or turrents. and u cant use dhc. go 8 beams. eptw x2 epts x2 use your epts transfere. bats and everything else. with 8 beams i can keep my wep power above 125 wep cap. but these mines and torps..............maybe use tric mines put 2 on your ship so every 30 sec u can let them go.
Yes, 6x Beam arrays with Ltc Tac for DPB 2 and 2x Trico Mine Launchers is probably the best setup for him on ESTFs.
Eyeballing it, I think he could probably hit about 4-5k DPS with that, as a Tac captain can usually hit 7-9k DPS.
Changeing my thinking yes I would but not completely as I much prefers cruisers. Yes I know Escorts are best but I do not get on with the feel for them. But I am up for a high DPS energy build cruiser. I was thinking about logging into game now and looking at x1 beam with beam overload with a cannon setup. Or any other setup with a LT Tac and LT commander Tac on a Sov refit.
What is wrong with my build for optional's? It?s good enough for probe duty or it can kill hull targets fast due to 33k damage single shots none crit. (fast for cruisers I would have thought). Anyway time to work on improvements.
Again, I'd throw it out there that your thinking is incorrect. "Probe duty" is something you do until you learn how to drop the generators, the cubes that spawn, and eventually the gate while destroying the probes on your side and keeping an eye on the other side.
If he's running 125 aux with Aux to SIF and the Borg Hull proc, I can see how he can eschew HE completely though.
It's not a build I would run, and I don't really know the specifics of his build.
ESTFs aren't actually hard is the ultimate point though.
yeah i seen him say 125 aux and i can uderstand why it took so long to drop me to 50% hp. but if my 1 volley took this guy to 30% in an oddy and he got a borg proc and still used 1 heal and did not get 100% hp then something is crealy wrong. frist i can tell he used mw because i thought it was et, used fomm but he was able to get tt up. he got back to around 79%. so i just said TRIBBLE it let mines hit me bla bla bla took way to long to drop to 50% did full buffs. i never used epts just to help him drop me. tehn took him out. mav even thought the guy was droping me because i got a pm to saty on his flank, lol. i just told him going for gdf. and yes mav is correct. looking at the combat logs mav 1 turrent did way more dps then this guy put out. a turrent............
side edit i was in a bug ship but still, 1 volley and almsot killed this guy. i doubt he surieve a borg crit. i can hit brace for impact and drop to 50% at times.
1 volley........
mav's 1 turrent...........
this guy needs help. i do hope he gets it because over all it will make him more happy.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
This only shows them when they're first launched or when they've aggro'd somebody. Otherwise, they're not visible. You can see friendly, but enemy mines will not show outside of those two instances...
Ok simple test go into any Beta Ursa deep space encounter if u can't see the terran empire fighters and shuttle names without targeting them u have the ui option turned off.
lol really? i can solo a dock on cure elite. but you know how many times i need to eavicive away just to heal? i doubt you can surive a borg crit. reason is my first volley almost killed you and you got a borg heal. in truth logimo on his tact fail carrier tanked more then you and put out more dps from his fail fpb.
and my pvp build still works better then people that just pve stf all day. i run 1 armor console and my resist are at 24.6% and i think kentic is 19.? my point is against a person that knows how to make an engy oddy build would actually have hurt me and never let me take them down that fast. atleast give mav's skill point and bo lay out a try. but torp spead 3? on an oddy? can u even turn fast enough to get a group of bop?
I would never use torps on an Oddy in fact I never use that ship far too slow a turn rate. How can energy builds last longer than I did? Surly the only difference between my build and an energy one is I can dump weapon power into shields and of course different weapon systems. What did I do wrong? How could other cruisers tank better? Well I had no borg healing which I guess makes me a little weaker but with season 7 that?s not going be an option.
I would never use torps on an Oddy in fact I never use that ship far too slow a turn rate. How can energy builds last longer than I did? Surly the only difference between my build and an energy one is I can dump weapon power into shields and of course different weapon systems. What did I do wrong? How could other cruisers tank better? Well I had no borg healing which I guess makes me a little weaker but with season 7 that?s not going be an option.
ok, so maybe i need sleep but i could have sworn it was an oddy. first i dont dump wep power into sheild system. thats what emergncy power to sheilds is for. i dump my sheild power to my engines and then take the engine power and put it in my aux. i keep my wep power to about 110. use emergency power to weps to boost it and use capt power to keep it up. i use a red matter with the doff. a wep bat a sheild bat. i use warp core doff as well.
2 copies of epts 2 copies of eptw
if u like please join our ts for a chat.
Join Date: Dec 2007Originally Posted by BROKEN1981
Generally speaking: running 125 Weapon power, with everything else into shields - and either switching to aux or just popping an aux batt for healing (batts are usually more than sufficient).
How could other cruisers tank better? Well I had no borg healing which I guess makes me a little weaker but with season 7 that?s not going be an option.
It's hard to tell without know what your build is.
Ok simple test go into any Beta Ursa deep space encounter if u can't see the terran empire fighters and shuttle names without targeting them u have the ui option turned off.
Fighters show - mines don't - until they target you or when they're just launched.
I've done over a dozen rerolls in the past week and a half - always the same thing, going in and having everything set to show always except for my name and life.
Whether doing PvE or PvP - I can only see mines when an enemy drops them or they go active and move toward me. Fighters are no issue - they're always there.
The option works for friendly - the mines show. For enemy they're only there during those two instances I pointed out.
I can turn it off for enemy and still target fighters - for the mines - there's no targeting them with it on or off...unless they were just dropped or they're following me or somebody else. It's as if they no longer exist on the field of battle... can't AoE them - they're just not there. It's no different than trying to hit a cloaked BoP - it's just not there.
EWP only works because either they've gone active or somebody was silly enough to launch them in the plasma...
edit: Wasn't like that earlier in the year, but since I came back in August...that's the way it's been (I've reinstalled several times since coming back)...
Ok not sure what I'm doing different then enemy mines seem to show for me even when they aren't targeting me and just floating in space have to test in a couple of hours when I'm in game.
Ok not sure what I'm doing different then enemy mines seem to show for me even when they aren't targeting me and just floating in space have to test in a couple of hours when I'm in game.
If it's a bug - something glitched on my side - tied into the account - that would actually be pretty damn nifty. Changing that option only changes if they show when launched or when they've targeted somebody and started moving toward them...
...I had assumed that was the way it was for everybody. I've flown Torp/Mine Escorts where I've got front and rear Breen Clusters as well as DPB'ing a Trans launcher. Folks might pop the cluster before it expands - but folks flew right into that mine spam as if they were flying blind all the time.
edit: Heck, I've seen folks doing the same thing I have to do in Gorn - slowboat, wait for them to appear, and frag them then...
Well, it seems MES cloaked mines suck. AMS just makes it worse.
Remove DP from the Trics and give the Tric-mines user splash damage so they have a danger involved in being used and viola!
They go back to being the weapon of choice for just those few who use them.
Nono, don't remove the DPs from trics. It would make them totally useless. Unless they crit, they can land a 30k hit on a completely unshielded target. PER MINUTE. UNLESS IT'S SHOT DOWN. (wich happens almost all the time)That's a complete waste of a weapons slot. Giving them splash damage to friendlies and removing the stealth value is all that's needed!
A PvP ACC build will deal out less damage then a PvE Crit build. That crit build will fail at PvP due to no ACC and shots missing but for PvE it will deal more DPS then the PvP build.
just for information, ACC is not worthless against a non-evasive target. Surplus Accuracy flows over to CrtH/D.
I think that we all should find and read what the term "mine" means.
Mines were designed for two main uses: to create defensive tactical barriers, channeling attacking forces into predetermined fire zones or slowing an invasion force's progress to allow reinforcements to arrive; and to act as passive area-denial weapons.
You enter you die, destroyed, etc.:eek:
Mines in real life are devastating weapons, land or naval.
I think that should be their purpose in game as well. In fact I believe that only trics do what they are supposed to do so far. You enter a mine field you die. Otherwise they are not mines and should be called something else.
In the game nobody takes seriously the mines. Only when they did what they should do.
Most of the mines do not cripple just do some damage, except from trics that either destroy or leave the target with a large hull damage. I might agree about the high crit that they have, but come on tell honestly, if you see a player spawning photon, quantum, etc, what do you say, that it is pointless and advise him to change that slot into something more effective.
Anything else and they are not called mines. And to all guides for builds especially for crowd control, everybody mentions the term Denial Zone.
So if I want to avoid an escort to tail me what do I do? I have to deny it that zone. And you know that they are stuck in your tail. So you want to avoid that stay at a distance and you can see the spawning happening, like the warp plasma. Plasma renders you immobile and tell me how many of you sometimes died, not always, when everybody concentrated the fire on you because you were a sitting duck and your counters where not available.
Another example: Capture and hold scenario. I try to capture a point. I have to deny the others the point to enter. What more effective than mines.
I understand the frustration of some players, but they are mines, their purpose is to destroy you if you hit them. They are not visible in real life, why be visible to the game. Then the aspect of friendly damage. Ok make them more visible also to friendlies in order to avoid them and if someone goes near them why not be destroyed.
I think that we all should find and read what the term "mine" means.
Mines were designed for two main uses: to create defensive tactical barriers, channeling attacking forces into predetermined fire zones or slowing an invasion force's progress to allow reinforcements to arrive; and to act as passive area-denial weapons.
You enter you die, destroyed, etc.:eek:
Mines in real life are devastating weapons, land or naval.
I think that should be their purpose in game as well. In fact I believe that only trics do what they are supposed to do so far. You enter a mine field you die. Otherwise they are not mines and should be called something else.
In the game nobody takes seriously the mines. Only when they did what they should do.
Most of the mines do not cripple just do some damage, except from trics that either destroy or leave the target with a large hull damage. I might agree about the high crit that they have, but come on tell honestly, if you see a player spawning photon, quantum, etc, what do you say, that it is pointless and advise him to change that slot into something more effective.
Anything else and they are not called mines. And to all guides for builds especially for crowd control, everybody mentions the term Denial Zone.
So if I want to avoid an escort to tail me what do I do? I have to deny it that zone. And you know that they are stuck in your tail. So you want to avoid that stay at a distance and you can see the spawning happening, like the warp plasma. Plasma renders you immobile and tell me how many of you sometimes died, not always, when everybody concentrated the fire on you because you were a sitting duck and your counters where not available.
Another example: Capture and hold scenario. I try to capture a point. I have to deny the others the point to enter. What more effective than mines.
I understand the frustration of some players, but they are mines, their purpose is to destroy you if you hit them. They are not visible in real life, why be visible to the game. Then the aspect of friendly damage. Ok make them more visible also to friendlies in order to avoid them and if someone goes near them why not be destroyed.
You sound like I did yesterday.
How about somebody flies up to you, drops a dispersal pattern, then hits Temporal Backstep. You are frozen. Meanwhile the mines arm. GG.
Doesn't sound like zone denial to me.
The problem isn't necessarily the trics, it's the shoddy implementation of things that were pretty bad ideas to begin with which combine with trics to remove all the mines' inherent weaknesses.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
I agree about Escorts but not that the point is dumb. A PvP ACC build will deal out less damage then a PvE Crit build. That crit build will fail at PvP due to no ACC and shots missing but for PvE it will deal more DPS then the PvP build. Hence why I said a good PvE build should match or beat a good PvP build for DPS at PvE. PvE is so simple you do not need to worry about defense or missing the target so you can take all the high DPS mods that are not always a good idea for PvP. I agree my setup is not top end DPS or near that but I also think you can build higher DPS setups for PvE then you can get away with for PvP.
?Again, what do you think would happen if you had no high resists??
I would die of course. What would happen if my target did not have high resistance and defense like you did? My dps would triple which would be a good DPS number for a heal boat. You had 50% or more resistance against all my damage for the entire battle on top of high defense causing me to miss well over 20% of the time if not higher. In PvE I do not need to worry about 50% resistance or defense and missing shots. I just heal and hit the hulls for 33k per shot or more with someone lowers kinetic resistance. I can easily get 40k+ per shot and 100k+crit with an Attack pattern to lower Kinetic resistance.
The main reason I use torps is I cannot get energy to work . I just do not see how any cruiser build could beat those Escorts of yours and I am happy to be proven wrong.
Only slightly less, furthermore there are ways to make CrtH weapons sing in pvp. They are called, snares, holds and stuns. Not only that, but against Big Fat Juicy Slow moving Targets (ike your cruiser) due to Acc overflow, CrtD becomes a much more desirable secondary property than does CrtH, especially on a weapon that is going to roll god only knows how many attack rolls over the course of a few seconds.
There is no "getting away with". Either your ship can Crank or it can't. part of Cranking is hitting the target in the first place.
I had a meager 4 percent Kinetic Resistance on my ship. oh and also, Tranny torps? they're bugged I could take my shields off and you'd do the same damage to my nekked hull as you would my shielded one, over all. I spent a full afternoon with 2 friends testing that. So your ship's dps? is already at Peak. Mine? Had to overcome your Full SDR, Hull Damage Resistance, and hull heals. My damage output would soar much much higher than yours.
Even if your damage Doubled, in pve to pvp. Your damage output is still less than 1/2 of mine. I know for a fact that my damage increases Tremendously against unhardened targets (things like npcs, stupid cruisers that don't pre buff any defenses). You could easily triple, or even quadruple my over all DPS for a given encounter, against defenseless targets.
I do more damage than you, and not even by a little margin. But by a Huge one. Over Four Times as much. That gulf is far too wide. in Raw Damage (that's damage that is Unadjusted) I out did you by an even larger gap than the Adjusted numbers that I mentioned earlier.
Fun trivia: of the 360+ thousand I did, you soaked 360,000 worth of the 81,000 you threw I only had to soak 54,000 of it.
I built my ship to be able to both Deal and soak fire, on the level I can generally throw it down by the way when I can.
By the way if any one that thinks a pvper can't possibly dish out 80,000 in 30 seconds. Sustained. the lil match me and this guy did? lasted 1 minute 49 seconds in that time my Raw Damage was 361,262. For the Math Impaired, that means by 30 seconds I had dealt 99429.9085256... damage. Nuff Said. Oh and I could have done better than that too. I used Tykens instead of TBR or GW, both of which do far and away more damage. So you could add another 10k to that number easy, to say nothing of any doff procs that might have happened.
How about somebody flies up to you, drops a dispersal pattern, then hits Temporal Backstep. You are frozen. Meanwhile the mines arm. GG.
Doesn't sound like zone denial to me.
The problem isn't necessarily the trics, it's the shoddy implementation of things that were pretty bad ideas to begin with which combine with trics to remove all the mines' inherent weaknesses.
So back step is the problem, like the devs were warned enforce it came out, but they said internal qa passed it.
Only slightly less, furthermore there are ways to make CrtH weapons sing in pvp. They are called, snares, holds and stuns. Not only that, but against Big Fat Juicy Slow moving Targets (ike your cruiser) due to Acc overflow, CrtD becomes a much more desirable secondary property than does CrtH, especially on a weapon that is going to roll god only knows how many attack rolls over the course of a few seconds.
There is no "getting away with". Either your ship can Crank or it can't. part of Cranking is hitting the target in the first place.
I had a meager 4 percent Kinetic Resistance on my ship. oh and also, Tranny torps? they're bugged I could take my shields off and you'd do the same damage to my nekked hull as you would my shielded one, over all. I spent a full afternoon with 2 friends testing that. So your ship's dps? is already at Peak. Mine? Had to overcome your Full SDR, Hull Damage Resistance, and hull heals. My damage output would soar much much higher than yours.
Even if your damage Doubled, in pve to pvp. Your damage output is still less than 1/2 of mine. I know for a fact that my damage increases Tremendously against unhardened targets (things like npcs, stupid cruisers that don't pre buff any defenses). You could easily triple, or even quadruple my over all DPS for a given encounter, against defenseless targets.
I do more damage than you, and not even by a little margin. But by a Huge one. Over Four Times as much. That gulf is far too wide. in Raw Damage (that's damage that is Unadjusted) I out did you by an even larger gap than the Adjusted numbers that I mentioned earlier.
Fun trivia: of the 360+ thousand I did, you soaked 360,000 worth of the 81,000 you threw I only had to soak 54,000 of it.
I built my ship to be able to both Deal and soak fire, on the level I can generally throw it down by the way when I can.
By the way if any one that thinks a pvper can't possibly dish out 80,000 in 30 seconds. Sustained. the lil match me and this guy did? lasted 1 minute 49 seconds in that time my Raw Damage was 361,262. For the Math Impaired, that means by 30 seconds I had dealt 99429.9085256... damage. Nuff Said. Oh and I could have done better than that too. I used Tykens instead of TBR or GW, both of which do far and away more damage. So you could add another 10k to that number easy, to say nothing of any doff procs that might have happened.
There is no point arguing about your setup doing more than me as I do not disagree with that. You are an Escort against a healing Cruiser. Compare me to other cruisers or healing cruisers and I can kill targets those cruisers fail to. The point off my setup is to have 25power in weapons, loads in Aux heal people while still dealing decent damage to all the hull targets and groups in STF's. Surly 1500 to 2000dps against hull is not bad for a healer?
I am a bit surprised about your testing as I did extensive testing and found I did 2.2k per shot with torpedoes on shields and 5k against hull. Cluster is 15k ish on shields and 32k ish on hull. Due to half the weapons having AoE I tend to come decent in the DPS chart in group PvP and PvE for a crusier. Doing 32k per weapon shot to a group is always nice.
Once thing I am confused about is DPS as you keep saying it sucks which it does 1v1 but in group PvP and PvE it keeps coming out much better then you say for a cruiser.
There is no point arguing about your setup doing more than me as I do not disagree with that. You are an Escort against a healing Cruiser. Compare me to other cruisers or healing cruisers and I can kill targets those cruisers fail to. The point off my setup is to have 25power in weapons, loads in Aux heal people while still dealing decent damage to all the hull targets and groups in STF's. Surly 1500 to 2000dps against hull is not bad for a healer?
I am a bit surprised about your testing as I did extensive testing and found I did 2.2k per shot with torpedoes on shields and 5k against hull. Cluster is 15k ish on shields and 32k ish on hull. Due to half the weapons having AoE I tend to come high up the DPS chart in group PvP and PvE. Doing 32k per weapon shot to a group is always nice.
Once thing I am confused about is DPS as you keep saying it sucks which it does 1v1 but in group PvP and PvE it keeps coming out very high for a cruiser often high up to chart.
Era could out damage and out heal you. And he's a lowly pvp healer
Era could out damage and out heal you. And he's a lowly pvp healer
How can you out heal 125Aux healing skills? Then boost damage without lowering healing skills? I fail to see how unless perhaps use a carrier which is not my style. I am all for improvement setups. Not sure what you mean by lowly pvp healer.
Comments
I run my ESTF MVAM build to get optionals in spite of people who think like you.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
lol really? i can solo a dock on cure elite. but you know how many times i need to eavicive away just to heal? i doubt you can surive a borg crit. reason is my first volley almost killed you and you got a borg heal. in truth logimo on his tact fail carrier tanked more then you and put out more dps from his fail fpb.
and my pvp build still works better then people that just pve stf all day. i run 1 armor console and my resist are at 24.6% and i think kentic is 19.? my point is against a person that knows how to make an engy oddy build would actually have hurt me and never let me take them down that fast. atleast give mav's skill point and bo lay out a try. but torp spead 3? on an oddy? can u even turn fast enough to get a group of bop?
What is wrong with my build for optional's? It?s good enough for probe duty or it can kill hull targets fast due to 33k damage single shots none crit. (fast for cruisers I would have thought). Anyway time to work on improvements.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Yes, of course.
If he's running 125 aux with Aux to SIF and the Borg Hull proc, I can see how he can eschew HE completely though.
It's not a build I would run, and I don't really know the specifics of his build.
ESTFs aren't actually hard is the ultimate point though.
dude ur in a oddy..........dont use cannons or turrents. and u cant use dhc. go 8 beams. eptw x2 epts x2 use your epts transfere. bats and everything else. with 8 beams i can keep my wep power above 125 wep cap. but these mines and torps..............maybe use tric mines put 2 on your ship so every 30 sec u can let them go.
Yes, 6x Beam arrays with Ltc Tac for DPB 2 and 2x Trico Mine Launchers is probably the best setup for him on ESTFs.
Eyeballing it, I think he could probably hit about 4-5k DPS with that, as a Tac captain can usually hit 7-9k DPS.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=406581
My first post in this thread describes some benchmarks for sucking less in KASE.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
yeah i seen him say 125 aux and i can uderstand why it took so long to drop me to 50% hp. but if my 1 volley took this guy to 30% in an oddy and he got a borg proc and still used 1 heal and did not get 100% hp then something is crealy wrong. frist i can tell he used mw because i thought it was et, used fomm but he was able to get tt up. he got back to around 79%. so i just said TRIBBLE it let mines hit me bla bla bla took way to long to drop to 50% did full buffs. i never used epts just to help him drop me. tehn took him out. mav even thought the guy was droping me because i got a pm to saty on his flank, lol. i just told him going for gdf. and yes mav is correct. looking at the combat logs mav 1 turrent did way more dps then this guy put out. a turrent............
side edit i was in a bug ship but still, 1 volley and almsot killed this guy. i doubt he surieve a borg crit. i can hit brace for impact and drop to 50% at times.
1 volley........
mav's 1 turrent...........
this guy needs help. i do hope he gets it because over all it will make him more happy.
Ok simple test go into any Beta Ursa deep space encounter if u can't see the terran empire fighters and shuttle names without targeting them u have the ui option turned off.
ok, so maybe i need sleep but i could have sworn it was an oddy. first i dont dump wep power into sheild system. thats what emergncy power to sheilds is for. i dump my sheild power to my engines and then take the engine power and put it in my aux. i keep my wep power to about 110. use emergency power to weps to boost it and use capt power to keep it up. i use a red matter with the doff. a wep bat a sheild bat. i use warp core doff as well.
2 copies of epts 2 copies of eptw
if u like please join our ts for a chat.
Generally speaking: running 125 Weapon power, with everything else into shields - and either switching to aux or just popping an aux batt for healing (batts are usually more than sufficient).
It's hard to tell without know what your build is.
Are you running Tac Team and 2x EPTS 2 or 3?
Fighters show - mines don't - until they target you or when they're just launched.
I've done over a dozen rerolls in the past week and a half - always the same thing, going in and having everything set to show always except for my name and life.
Whether doing PvE or PvP - I can only see mines when an enemy drops them or they go active and move toward me. Fighters are no issue - they're always there.
The option works for friendly - the mines show. For enemy they're only there during those two instances I pointed out.
I can turn it off for enemy and still target fighters - for the mines - there's no targeting them with it on or off...unless they were just dropped or they're following me or somebody else. It's as if they no longer exist on the field of battle... can't AoE them - they're just not there. It's no different than trying to hit a cloaked BoP - it's just not there.
EWP only works because either they've gone active or somebody was silly enough to launch them in the plasma...
edit: Wasn't like that earlier in the year, but since I came back in August...that's the way it's been (I've reinstalled several times since coming back)...
If it's a bug - something glitched on my side - tied into the account - that would actually be pretty damn nifty. Changing that option only changes if they show when launched or when they've targeted somebody and started moving toward them...
...I had assumed that was the way it was for everybody. I've flown Torp/Mine Escorts where I've got front and rear Breen Clusters as well as DPB'ing a Trans launcher. Folks might pop the cluster before it expands - but folks flew right into that mine spam as if they were flying blind all the time.
edit: Heck, I've seen folks doing the same thing I have to do in Gorn - slowboat, wait for them to appear, and frag them then...
Nono, don't remove the DPs from trics. It would make them totally useless. Unless they crit, they can land a 30k hit on a completely unshielded target. PER MINUTE. UNLESS IT'S SHOT DOWN. (wich happens almost all the time)That's a complete waste of a weapons slot. Giving them splash damage to friendlies and removing the stealth value is all that's needed!
just for information, ACC is not worthless against a non-evasive target. Surplus Accuracy flows over to CrtH/D.
It's a nice bonus for sure, but it's a very meagre one.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Mines were designed for two main uses: to create defensive tactical barriers, channeling attacking forces into predetermined fire zones or slowing an invasion force's progress to allow reinforcements to arrive; and to act as passive area-denial weapons.
You enter you die, destroyed, etc.:eek:
Mines in real life are devastating weapons, land or naval.
I think that should be their purpose in game as well. In fact I believe that only trics do what they are supposed to do so far. You enter a mine field you die. Otherwise they are not mines and should be called something else.
In the game nobody takes seriously the mines. Only when they did what they should do.
Most of the mines do not cripple just do some damage, except from trics that either destroy or leave the target with a large hull damage. I might agree about the high crit that they have, but come on tell honestly, if you see a player spawning photon, quantum, etc, what do you say, that it is pointless and advise him to change that slot into something more effective.
Anything else and they are not called mines. And to all guides for builds especially for crowd control, everybody mentions the term Denial Zone.
So if I want to avoid an escort to tail me what do I do? I have to deny it that zone. And you know that they are stuck in your tail. So you want to avoid that stay at a distance and you can see the spawning happening, like the warp plasma. Plasma renders you immobile and tell me how many of you sometimes died, not always, when everybody concentrated the fire on you because you were a sitting duck and your counters where not available.
Another example: Capture and hold scenario. I try to capture a point. I have to deny the others the point to enter. What more effective than mines.
I understand the frustration of some players, but they are mines, their purpose is to destroy you if you hit them. They are not visible in real life, why be visible to the game. Then the aspect of friendly damage. Ok make them more visible also to friendlies in order to avoid them and if someone goes near them why not be destroyed.
KDF Eng: Boreas I.K.S. Demonon Nemesis {Fleet: HoS}
Rom Sci: Crius I.R.W. Noctem Aeternus {Fleet: LoS}
Fed Tac: Kronos U.S.S. Xibalba, I.S.S. Theogonia{Fleet: HSF}
How about somebody flies up to you, drops a dispersal pattern, then hits Temporal Backstep. You are frozen. Meanwhile the mines arm. GG.
Doesn't sound like zone denial to me.
The problem isn't necessarily the trics, it's the shoddy implementation of things that were pretty bad ideas to begin with which combine with trics to remove all the mines' inherent weaknesses.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Only slightly less, furthermore there are ways to make CrtH weapons sing in pvp. They are called, snares, holds and stuns. Not only that, but against Big Fat Juicy Slow moving Targets (ike your cruiser) due to Acc overflow, CrtD becomes a much more desirable secondary property than does CrtH, especially on a weapon that is going to roll god only knows how many attack rolls over the course of a few seconds.
There is no "getting away with". Either your ship can Crank or it can't. part of Cranking is hitting the target in the first place.
I had a meager 4 percent Kinetic Resistance on my ship. oh and also, Tranny torps? they're bugged I could take my shields off and you'd do the same damage to my nekked hull as you would my shielded one, over all. I spent a full afternoon with 2 friends testing that. So your ship's dps? is already at Peak. Mine? Had to overcome your Full SDR, Hull Damage Resistance, and hull heals. My damage output would soar much much higher than yours.
Even if your damage Doubled, in pve to pvp. Your damage output is still less than 1/2 of mine. I know for a fact that my damage increases Tremendously against unhardened targets (things like npcs, stupid cruisers that don't pre buff any defenses). You could easily triple, or even quadruple my over all DPS for a given encounter, against defenseless targets.
I do more damage than you, and not even by a little margin. But by a Huge one. Over Four Times as much. That gulf is far too wide. in Raw Damage (that's damage that is Unadjusted) I out did you by an even larger gap than the Adjusted numbers that I mentioned earlier.
Fun trivia: of the 360+ thousand I did, you soaked 360,000 worth of the 81,000 you threw I only had to soak 54,000 of it.
I built my ship to be able to both Deal and soak fire, on the level I can generally throw it down by the way when I can.
By the way if any one that thinks a pvper can't possibly dish out 80,000 in 30 seconds. Sustained. the lil match me and this guy did? lasted 1 minute 49 seconds in that time my Raw Damage was 361,262. For the Math Impaired, that means by 30 seconds I had dealt 99429.9085256... damage. Nuff Said. Oh and I could have done better than that too. I used Tykens instead of TBR or GW, both of which do far and away more damage. So you could add another 10k to that number easy, to say nothing of any doff procs that might have happened.
So back step is the problem, like the devs were warned enforce it came out, but they said internal qa passed it.
Gotta love them cryptic guys.
Problem is backstep, not the mines.
Until its put in, then yes. It is backstep that's the problem.
I am a bit surprised about your testing as I did extensive testing and found I did 2.2k per shot with torpedoes on shields and 5k against hull. Cluster is 15k ish on shields and 32k ish on hull. Due to half the weapons having AoE I tend to come decent in the DPS chart in group PvP and PvE for a crusier. Doing 32k per weapon shot to a group is always nice.
Once thing I am confused about is DPS as you keep saying it sucks which it does 1v1 but in group PvP and PvE it keeps coming out much better then you say for a cruiser.
Era could out damage and out heal you. And he's a lowly pvp healer