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A Growing Issue and a Viable Solution
alesiam1
Member Posts: 20 Arc User
Hello Star Trek Online Fans, Friends and Fleet members,
I want to start out by saying that this post is in all honesty a constructive and positive post to address a growing issue in Star Trek Online. It concerns your enjoyment in the game whether your a Casual Player, Role-player, Social Player or a New Member to our outstanding Community. This is one of the only MMO's that I know of that F2P allows you to make the currency need to buy everything in game including the cash paid for Zen with just a bit of effort on your part. So the idea of pay to win, is null and void here. This means that even though people complain about Cryptic and PWE only wanting your money, they gave you another option. This is rare.
After only a week in this game I realized that like every other MMO out there, you have those who offer their help and those who choose to take every opportunity to make playing the game seem more like a solo mission than a community. As we were all new once, we had questions and those questions sometimes get answered by people who care that you find your place in the game, regardless of where that place is. Many times those questions are answered by those who would rather waste your time and use your new status to make fun of how you know nothing, and they are such pros.
As most of that kind of thing takes place in Zone chat it is easy to avoid by just turning your zone chat off, meeting some real friendly players and joining a fleet.
Now as I progressed in my game play and found friends and learned that there was truly a social and role-play side of this game, I began to pursue that. Grinding is great, however I like substance to my MMO game experience and as a very experienced Role-Player, I rather enjoy playing my toon as I feel that a Star Trek Character would be.
However the areas in which social role-play and social play are extremely limited when it comes to having a population for this.
Yes I know that there are fleets and Starbases and soon an Embassy for cross faction inviting. However part of being social is not having to invite players but to actually be somewhere you can meet new people. This is a community and not a single player game.
As I learned of Drozana I realized that many players there are either social or RP, Bajor can sometimes be the same. However going to these places has become more of a hit and miss, as some players and some entire fleets make it their sole purpose in life to destroy any chance of rp or social play by doing the most ridiculous things. I mean what dedication a player must have to harassing another to stand and throw cryo grenades down on you or dance on top of your toon for hours on end. If any of you have visited Drozana then you can appreciate and understand what I am referring to.
I have never been in a MMO that had entire fleets where ever member was not only doing this kind of thing, but were basically doing it as part of their fleet mantra. People being promoted and recruited, just to be harassing and annoying.
Now I know what the next thing some of you are thinking. "Just Ignore them."
And of course it is easy to add someone to your ignore list, hoever let me explain the current ignore system.
You Ignore a player, You as a player no longer see their chat. However they remain seeing yours from what I have been able to determine. This does not hide you from them in any way shape or form. So what is the next solution, just leave that area. Well leaving an area is of course an option but why should you have to leave an area to enjoy the game where you like? Even still leaving the area is often not enough, as even though a player is ignored, they have the ability to search your name and follow you to your new location to continue and often do just to harass more. Now I will not recite the Terms of Service policies here. However I will say that so far most of what these players do is against the TOS. Now next step is to put yourself on Anonymous, you can do this by typing in /hide and /unhide to stop hiding. Yes this is also a solution, but a solution that means you are not visiable to your Friends and Fleet, it also makes you unavailable for teaming of any kind until you unhide.
If you like to harass and think it is fun, then that is your choice, but when it impedes the enjoyment of others it is out of line. My time, hard grinding and money spent in this game as everyone's is a choice and it is how many of us wish to spend our time and money or hard work grinding.
Last of the Issues is the amount of reports that are sent to GM's on a daily basis concerning everything from minor complaints to the most major of infractions, as a community I see complaints of how the Dev's don't fix this and don't fix that, how bugs are here and there and nothing is done. Has anyone considered that maybe those complaints and reports take up so much time of the staff's busy day managing this server that they have little time left to see to all the Bug Reports and True issues in the game. The time spent reading Player Complaints over harassment, I know as a former Persistent world owner and Server Admin/Owner, that these complaints can take a very large amount of your day.
So, all this being said, I will get to my point.
In a Social Game such as Second Life, they have a feature as part of their Ignore Feature, It allows the ignore to make both players, the one ignoring and the one being ignored to no longer see each other. It makes them anonymous to each other in every way, this means no more viewing each others chat, no search ability, no interaction at all.
If you no longer can see a player, then the idea of dancing on them or whatever it is you do to make sure to impede them in anyway can no longer be seen by those players.
Someone who is an extreme harassment professional, would basically find themselves standing in an area all alone. Now this does not stop the players from being in the area together and interacting with the rest of the game. It is just that those two players will have no idea they are there outside of a conversation by other players to them.
It would not stop the fact if you ended up on an STF together that the team would be short. No they would still be interacting with the game, just no longer with each other.
Now how does this help?
It number one, alleviates the pressure on the GM's to police up and investigate every player on player complaint, freeing up their time and the resources required to keep them on those complaints. Also allowing the GM's and Staff to concentrate on what is important to us all, the quality of our STO.
We know all ages play this game and many personalities play, this gives you the player the power to handle your problems with a simple click of the ignore button, and magically, you are again free to enjoy the game as you wish without causing other players issue or dissatisfaction.
I know of players who have been bullied right out of this game, and as far as I am concerned, the selfishness of annoying another for the sole purpose to make their lives miserable in a game that should be enjoyed, should mean your immediate removal and block of your ip, router whatever from the game. However in an effort to prevent the loss of players and revenue for the company, this is the most viable solution and everyone is happy.
I want to thank you all for taking the time to read this, and I would appreciate any support that you feel would help promote this solution. It is important we all look out for the community we spend so much time in and support with our efforts, money and devotion.
Live Long and Prosper!
I want to start out by saying that this post is in all honesty a constructive and positive post to address a growing issue in Star Trek Online. It concerns your enjoyment in the game whether your a Casual Player, Role-player, Social Player or a New Member to our outstanding Community. This is one of the only MMO's that I know of that F2P allows you to make the currency need to buy everything in game including the cash paid for Zen with just a bit of effort on your part. So the idea of pay to win, is null and void here. This means that even though people complain about Cryptic and PWE only wanting your money, they gave you another option. This is rare.
After only a week in this game I realized that like every other MMO out there, you have those who offer their help and those who choose to take every opportunity to make playing the game seem more like a solo mission than a community. As we were all new once, we had questions and those questions sometimes get answered by people who care that you find your place in the game, regardless of where that place is. Many times those questions are answered by those who would rather waste your time and use your new status to make fun of how you know nothing, and they are such pros.
As most of that kind of thing takes place in Zone chat it is easy to avoid by just turning your zone chat off, meeting some real friendly players and joining a fleet.
Now as I progressed in my game play and found friends and learned that there was truly a social and role-play side of this game, I began to pursue that. Grinding is great, however I like substance to my MMO game experience and as a very experienced Role-Player, I rather enjoy playing my toon as I feel that a Star Trek Character would be.
However the areas in which social role-play and social play are extremely limited when it comes to having a population for this.
Yes I know that there are fleets and Starbases and soon an Embassy for cross faction inviting. However part of being social is not having to invite players but to actually be somewhere you can meet new people. This is a community and not a single player game.
As I learned of Drozana I realized that many players there are either social or RP, Bajor can sometimes be the same. However going to these places has become more of a hit and miss, as some players and some entire fleets make it their sole purpose in life to destroy any chance of rp or social play by doing the most ridiculous things. I mean what dedication a player must have to harassing another to stand and throw cryo grenades down on you or dance on top of your toon for hours on end. If any of you have visited Drozana then you can appreciate and understand what I am referring to.
I have never been in a MMO that had entire fleets where ever member was not only doing this kind of thing, but were basically doing it as part of their fleet mantra. People being promoted and recruited, just to be harassing and annoying.
Now I know what the next thing some of you are thinking. "Just Ignore them."
And of course it is easy to add someone to your ignore list, hoever let me explain the current ignore system.
You Ignore a player, You as a player no longer see their chat. However they remain seeing yours from what I have been able to determine. This does not hide you from them in any way shape or form. So what is the next solution, just leave that area. Well leaving an area is of course an option but why should you have to leave an area to enjoy the game where you like? Even still leaving the area is often not enough, as even though a player is ignored, they have the ability to search your name and follow you to your new location to continue and often do just to harass more. Now I will not recite the Terms of Service policies here. However I will say that so far most of what these players do is against the TOS. Now next step is to put yourself on Anonymous, you can do this by typing in /hide and /unhide to stop hiding. Yes this is also a solution, but a solution that means you are not visiable to your Friends and Fleet, it also makes you unavailable for teaming of any kind until you unhide.
If you like to harass and think it is fun, then that is your choice, but when it impedes the enjoyment of others it is out of line. My time, hard grinding and money spent in this game as everyone's is a choice and it is how many of us wish to spend our time and money or hard work grinding.
Last of the Issues is the amount of reports that are sent to GM's on a daily basis concerning everything from minor complaints to the most major of infractions, as a community I see complaints of how the Dev's don't fix this and don't fix that, how bugs are here and there and nothing is done. Has anyone considered that maybe those complaints and reports take up so much time of the staff's busy day managing this server that they have little time left to see to all the Bug Reports and True issues in the game. The time spent reading Player Complaints over harassment, I know as a former Persistent world owner and Server Admin/Owner, that these complaints can take a very large amount of your day.
So, all this being said, I will get to my point.
In a Social Game such as Second Life, they have a feature as part of their Ignore Feature, It allows the ignore to make both players, the one ignoring and the one being ignored to no longer see each other. It makes them anonymous to each other in every way, this means no more viewing each others chat, no search ability, no interaction at all.
If you no longer can see a player, then the idea of dancing on them or whatever it is you do to make sure to impede them in anyway can no longer be seen by those players.
Someone who is an extreme harassment professional, would basically find themselves standing in an area all alone. Now this does not stop the players from being in the area together and interacting with the rest of the game. It is just that those two players will have no idea they are there outside of a conversation by other players to them.
It would not stop the fact if you ended up on an STF together that the team would be short. No they would still be interacting with the game, just no longer with each other.
Now how does this help?
It number one, alleviates the pressure on the GM's to police up and investigate every player on player complaint, freeing up their time and the resources required to keep them on those complaints. Also allowing the GM's and Staff to concentrate on what is important to us all, the quality of our STO.
We know all ages play this game and many personalities play, this gives you the player the power to handle your problems with a simple click of the ignore button, and magically, you are again free to enjoy the game as you wish without causing other players issue or dissatisfaction.
I know of players who have been bullied right out of this game, and as far as I am concerned, the selfishness of annoying another for the sole purpose to make their lives miserable in a game that should be enjoyed, should mean your immediate removal and block of your ip, router whatever from the game. However in an effort to prevent the loss of players and revenue for the company, this is the most viable solution and everyone is happy.
I want to thank you all for taking the time to read this, and I would appreciate any support that you feel would help promote this solution. It is important we all look out for the community we spend so much time in and support with our efforts, money and devotion.
Live Long and Prosper!
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
Post edited by alesiam1 on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
'Course, people have asked for similar things before. I won't hold my breath or anything.
Seconded, i have witnessed this kind of behaviour while passing through areas such as Drozana and what people need to understand is this happening in other areas of the game. Maybe not as much as in Drozana but what if it spreads, do the people who ignore this issue and those who cause the problems want to be the next victims?
I was concerned when I saw your wall of text, but you obviously have skill with the written word and clearly outlined your argument.
I really like your proposal. I can think of no down side to it, and further to that, I believe that the only people who may find it to be negative are those individuals who would be affected by it.
Two thumbs up from me.
This is a great game, and there is a great community of star trek fans who play; I hope you're able to work this out.
BSG-Benne Gesserit Consortium
And thank you for the welcome.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
That attention would be fleeting if this feature were implemented.
Sadly, this feature will never go into effect and, "They" will continue to be ******* and ********* because nothing will ever be done about them
Short-term attention in exchange for long-term obliteration, at least if this is implemented. I'd say that's a decent enough exchange, myself.
The main concern with this would be how one does queues and the like. So far as I know ignore'd people can still be queued together. IMO this is an important thing to do, because otherwise it's way too easy for a player to be "embargoed" by abuse of the Ignore system. Perhaps there's a flag on the social zones for this?
So your not new to the game but are willing to purchase the life time subscription. I guess a problem like this will be the ultimate decider, To purchase or not to purchase. This is the the kind of situation that stops people from paying out so much for a lifetime and committing to the game or just walking away. I'm guessing your not the only one with this dilemma and if that's the case Cryptic is losing out on players and making money.
As to the ques question, I would think that would resolve itself in time. I rarely see any of the members of the "griefer fleets" doing STF's or FA's anyway. It does amaze me that something so tedious as annoying another player would be that enjoyable. Even if I decided to step back into immaturity and annoy someone endlessly, it's enjoyment would fade very quickly. Maybe it is one of the downsides to free to play, because who would pay not to actually enjoy the game itself? This fix would counter that I believe. Although I could be wrong I suppose.
The proposed solution would involve having every single account in the database potentially own a flag for every single other account in the database, with a yes/no permission toggle.
Sure, you could only include entries for "no" but then the potential still exists that a single account could /ignore every single other player in the game.
Then there's the implementation of asking the server-client communication to include permission as to whether or not to display a specific avatar on the client, requiring an extra step of authentication that would likely bog down a game that already suffers from communication lag in heavily populated areas.
Suffice it to say, I see such feature being extremely unlikely.
On the other hand, the system already is rumored to have a series of checks upon stepping into a new instance. If there are multiple copies of that instance running, it will automatically attempt to place you into instances that include Friends and Fleetmates. An extra check could be added to this that would force you to NOT end up in instances populated by anyone on your Ignore List. It probably wouldn't work 100% of the time, especially if you have a large Fleet and/or Friends List, but it might help.
As I stated in the original post, this would not affect players still existing in the same area doing things, from stf to missions. It only makes those players unable to see each other or interact directly with each other. They would both still be in the mission.
This is a simple invisible feature that prevents you from seeing each other or corresponding.
Thanks for all the support so far.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
My ignore list is longer than my friends list, I'm very sad to say. Both of my young teenage sons play this game, and both of them would dearly love a lifetime sub, as would I, but I am not willing to part with such a large amount of money when our playtime experience is more often than not, completely ruined and we are often forced out of an area we used to enjoy being in, simply because the idiocy becomes too much to bear.
I can no longer count the amount of reports filed against such trolls that apparently go unanswered and seemingly ignored. Nothing is ever done about them, and until such time as something is, I will continue to disappoint my children and refuse to pay for a subscription.
Personally I think alesiam's suggestion is a good one, and would be to everyone's benefit if something like that were implemented.
Few MMOs have good communities. WoW's is universally recognized as the worst by far, GW1 has the best community of any MMO I've yet seen. Whereas the WoW community is pervaded by brainless morons and overgrown kids and EvE by disaffected accountants and programmers, STO has its own brand of bad.
The community of STO is dominated by what I call "wannabe hall monitors". Nobodies desperately trying to convince themselves and everyone around them that they are somebody.
These people very obviously have no power in life, so in-game they behave in the perceived manner of the teachers, parents and other authority figures that put them down in real life. They often seem to enjoy playing soldier way too much. STO has its own unique brand of antisocial loser behavior distinct from the kind of trolling and trash talk seen in LoL or WoW.
These people have ownership of some channel or fleet, power-trip at every opportunity, talk down to others, and it's very hard to break their control over the flow of the game because the majority of the community is just as small-spirited and derives some bizarre satisfaction from kissing up to these internet bullies. New players have to play their game, remain isolated, or move on to another MMO.
I attribute this problem to several factors:
1. The lack of mechanisms in the game to contribute to organic community-building (e.g., outdoor content that requires communication and cooperation - Defera and Nukara are good steps in that direction, but too grindy and limited, the lack of a global group-finding channel, and the fact that most STFs can be zerged down without any real coordination).
2. The degenerative effect of the lack of content, pervasive P2W, and financially exploitative nature of Cryptic's management of the game has driven away too many critically-minded players who would also be the best members of the community.
3. The overly militarized character of the game (as opposed to the open-ended exploration etc that is the traditional heart of the Star Trek genre) tends to appeal to the excessive population of US military that play the game.
4. The lack of good, challenging PvE content and competitive progression, which has the effect of forcing players to cooperate and removing deadwood from positions of power and replacing them with effective community members (I firmly believe that it is the challenging nature of TBC and GW1 that made those communities some of the best).
5. The excessive power of non-meritocratic player institutions such as the Starbase system and private chat channels.
I did buy a lifetime sub, I don't regret it. For all its faults, STO is still very fun, even if I'm quite pessimistic about the intermediate future of the game. However, the lack of a quality community is a serious problem, it has contributed greatly to the stagnation of the game, and it disincentivizes me from dealing with other players. This also reduces my inclination to log in.
I contributed substantial resources to a starbase before getting kicked from the fleet by a power-tripper. No one else liked this guy, but most of the rest of the officers, people I should have known better than to trust, were the typical loser types who play this game, nobodies who will say and do anything for reflected status and prestige in the game and don't have the guts to establish better communities - not that the game itself gives them a strong reason to, given how trivial it is. So, I was out my resources.
Then I cynically joined another fleet, which is now nearly T5 (the previous fleet, which these guys took so seriously, is barely T3). The fleet MOTD is to contribute to the SB projects, but I don't see why I would, I don't know these people and get no guaranteed return on my investment. Certainly it's a lot less fun clicking away resources than doing fun content with a group, so as to get to know others. So I am just in the fleet, and use the vendors, which feels very shallow.
I don't just blame the SB system, but the kind of incredibly petty losers that STO seems to attract. I think this has less to do with the Star Trek genre (STO players are not only not representative of trekkies, but are completely unlike most trekkies) and more to do with the nature of STO itself.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
So somebody is dancing on you, or throwing grenades, or whatever.
My take on it? Grow up and deal with it.
The OP hasn't given any valid reason why this change is necessary. It seems to me like he basically wants a technical solution to what is really a matter of personal character. This is a case of an internet ostrich looking for a high-tech hole in the sand.
The extreme emotional vulnerability the OP describes is strictly a personal problem, and I think that a major downfall of the MMO genre has been its efforts to appeal to the emotionally vulnerable, by removing anything that might damage their fragile egos, such as competition or interaction.
I firmly believe that the reason the community is such a mess is precisely because STO doesn't really force players to interact with each other - a mistake that GW2 also made and I believe is THE #1 reason GW2 fell far short of its ambitions - and so the game appeals disproportionately to vulnerable losers who can't take it upon themselves to build a better community or challenge themselves.
Whether it's trolling/griefing, or hearing an opinion you don't like, the cost of a free and vibrant community is having the strength of character to take the good with the bad.
If members of the community aren't willing to pay that cost, what you wind up with, is what we have, which is a community consisting of atomized individuals and little cliques of like-minded, close-minded petty individuals, who are way too reliant on the chat system and queue system to do their small socialization for them as they zerg down trivial content.
I remember when WoW transitioned from 40-mans to 25-mans and finally to 10-mans. It was believed that allowing players to get by with smaller groups would disempower the jerks, but in reality, it made the jerks stronger. For a 40- or 25-man guild to function, a certain amount of personal flexibility was necessary. Yes, there were jerks in every guild, some more than others. But in the long term, being a habitual jerk caused more sensible members of the community to gradually turn away. The transition to 10-mans stymied this process, by allowing small communities of like-minded jerks to do their own thing and bully and annoy individual players.
Smaller communities, the ability to easy remove oneself from individuals or situations that were in some way objectionable, facilitated the social aspect of entering content, but the other side of that was, it removed the need for individuals to be personally flexible, with very deleterious results in the community at large. The community changed from a diverse crowd of people of varying levels of niceness who learned to somehow get along, to a bunch of impatient, snap-judgemental people who cowered with their little "baddie support groups", instantly ignoring anyone who they just didn't like.
Children who don't get along are put in opposing corners of the room. What makes a mature adult is the capacity to get along. If an MMO treats its players like children, those are the kinds of players it will attract.
So far the STO community seems very nice to me. Ingame I don't see an excessive amount of flamers and trolls, when you ask something ppl do help if they can, hell you don't even ask for RP/DI and you get it.
But if you say that the community is bad because of forum protests against dilithium costs in the next season or because players who despise gambling are forced to gamble with lockboxes, we're not on the same track.
Someone once observed that the LoL community seems worse than the WoW community, but in reality, WoW is much worse, because, they said, in WoW, if a player is antisocial, or TRIBBLE, or whatever, you can just ignore them and zerg the content in silence, or alt-F4 with no penalty.
In LoL, you can't ignore that behavior, because a TRIBBLE teammate will cost you a game, and you can't just alt-F4 because of the leaver penalties.
While some might say that is proof that WoW's approach is better, in reality, the truth is the opposite, which is that it is LoL's policies of forcing players to work together that have kept the game community from descending to the level of WoW or CoD.
I would argue that is proof of my case, that allowing players to disregard each other, via powerful ignore features or trivial content etc, is self-defeating and will only bring the community to new lows.
Yes...and no. I never made such a claim, so I am genuinely curious why you think that is my belief.
(In reality, this is a myth spread by company sock puppets trying to use bullying and blame to defeat criticism of PWE profiteering).
Actually my belief is the opposite. I think it is in large part because of the lockboxes and exploitative design of the game (attempts to gouge on Zen) that the community is so bad. After all, what kind of people are going to be attracted to a game that treats its players like saps?
To rant about a bad fleet in a thread that has nothing to do with that is also an interesting choice.. (although I am sorry that happend to you after you contributed)
The point of the thread is "internet bullying and griefing". The OP's suggestion is one that he found implemented in another game (so it's not actually a new idea that he created). Like the idea or not, but if we found an individual walking around town in the real world, throwing water balloons at people, dancing on them, using profanity to them out loud or in whispers we would do our best to find a nice padded cell for them. It has nothing to do with policing or inhibiting ones rights because the OP's solution allows the offender to continue, and the annoyed to ignore.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
The OP's post described his reaction to a situation. How people react to situations is defined by what sort of person one is. It is reasonable to infer personal character from expressed thoughts and behavior.
I didn't attack the OP. I gave my opinion on his suggestion and the attitudes behind it.
This thread is about the community and people's experiences with it. I am volunteering my own experience.
Dismissing what I say as a "rant" is insulting and offensive. If you don't like what I have to say, then disregard it and move on.
Your analogy is faulty. Throwing water balloons at someone is a physical assault, and it leaves one's clothes wet. Jumping up and down and putting pixels on the screen in a video game is not a physical assault, and it does absolutely no harm whatsoever.
You are trying to reinforce a weak argument with semantics contrary to the OP (he explicitly said profanity isn't his issue) and defamatory language (implying that those who don't agree with you are criminally insane).
Just because something does not violate the rights of others does not necessarily make it appropriate or wise.
I have illustrated why I believe that efforts to insulate players from each other and coddle the emotionally vulnerable is a strongly negative force in MMO design. Whether or not doing so interferes with anyone's rights has no bearing on the question of whether or not it makes for a good game community, or attracts the right sort of individuals to a game community.
I am of the opinion that overprotecting the emotionally vulnerable drags a game down into mediocrity and mass egoism. I feel very strongly this was a major factor in the decline of WoW and the lack of success of GW2. Again, you may not agree, but you can't tell me that I don't have a right to my opinion, nor to allow others to consider it for themselves.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
To justify it would be a waste of time, I appreciate your post for what it is a perfect reminder as you spoke, of someone trying to prove to the world their worth.
I hope the Staff and Members of this community as well see your post for what it is, which is insulting at it's very least.
I will leave you with the bases of my argument, as a paying members of this community we were given the following.
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
10. User Conduct
(f) "Stalk," threaten or otherwise harass or cause discomfort to another;
(g) Collect, store, post or otherwise disseminate any personal data about other users;
(h) Impede or disrupt the Service or the normal flow of game play or dialogue in the game or in Interactive Areas on the Site or use vulgar language, abusiveness, use of excessive shouting (ALL CAPS) "spamming" or any other disruptive or detrimental methods in an attempt to disturb other users or PWE employees;
(i) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates these Terms or the Rules of Conduct;
(j) Engage in any actions that defraud or attempt to defraud, scam or cheat others out of any items that have been earned through authorized game play;
(k) Cheat or utilize unauthorized exploits in connection with the Games or the Service;
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,
(m) trade, sell, auction or otherwise transfer any virtual items or goods of any nature outside the game; and/or
(n) Take any action that disrupts the Service or that negatively affects or may prohibit other users from enjoying the Website, the Games or any other aspect of the Service.
My argument for the suggestion is justified by the above.
Thank You for your Opinion Aetsu, and thank you for enforcing my point, and thank you for not seeing that I am trying to build a better community. It is my social interaction not reliant on a system of random mission teaming, and my unwillingness to call the trolls and griefers as you put it, a part of what I call social community. Their actions are not in anyway social.
Solutions to problems are achieved by those willing to stand up and fight when others seek to be the problem.
?To solve any problem, here are three questions to ask yourself: First, what could I do? Second, what could I read? And third, who could I ask?? ~Jim Rohn
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
I am not insulting you. You, however, are insulting me by being sarcastic and defamatory.
You say I am eloquent, and on that basis, claim that my intent is "to prove to the world my worth". Proving one's worth is hardly a disreputable agenda. My "eloquence" and "efforts to prove my worth" should not offend you any more than someone jumping up and down next to you.
Whether or not that is in fact my goal, that you try to use a virtue - being eloquent, as you say, or having some benign aspiration - as a strike against someone else betrays the truth of what I said. You seek a technical solution to what is for many people a personal problem, excessive vulnerability.
Those griefers and trolls are part of the community, like it or not. I am not saying what they do is right or appropriate...but I don't agree with your claim that a technical solution is appropriate.
I am firmly of the belief that a free and vibrant community is dependent on a certain level of not only decent behavior, but tolerance for others' imperfections and a reasonable capacity to deal with things one doesn't like. Some benign behaviors, jumping up and down, dancing, "eloquence", perceived ambition, offend you. Others are equally offended by intrusions of reality or opinions they don't like. Exposure to things one does not like, however, is necessary for health and growth as an individual and as a player.
I personally almost never put people on ignore. I believe that doing so is childish - I consider it part of being a man that I'm big enough to not let things get to me, or be bothered by something someone said. I believe that those who need to close their minds or ears to something they don't like are inherently limited as individuals, and that has a reciprocal impact on those around them.
You claim I insulted you. I don't feel I did, such was never my intent.
But here you are definitely insulting me.
You are saying I want to be the problem. I don't want to be "the" problem, as if it's so simple as black-and-white. I simply don't agree with you on what exactly the problem is or how it should be dealt with.
You say you want to "stand up and fight" the griefers. The metaphor would suggest anger and a desire to "get back at them". A man can fight...he can also walk away. That is an option you seem to have failed to consider: to simply disregard the people in question. Would that not be a solution?
Sometimes solutions are arrived at by other means than standing up and fighting. Sometimes looking at a situation differently, getting a bit of perspective, developing consensus, etc, can all be more effective solutions than being oppositional.
This is why I believe that MMOs that seek to insulate members of the community from each other, and anything they don't like, will ultimately wind up with a community of blind egotists - people who retreat into their vanity whenever they are challenged to be bigger than something, whether it's the incidental troll or non-trivial content or a difference of opinion.
From there: the rapid slide into mediocrity. Or worse than that, a community dominated by those people who play MMOs because they are too vulnerable to handle real life. I'm not saying you are such a person - but they are out there, and they are numerous. Especially in STO.
Ranting about being kicked out of a fleet in the wrong thread has nothing to do with griefers. And while a person can discuss whatever they want in any thread they choose, it does not make it helpful or appropriate.
You have attacked the OP, by trying to determine his emotional status based on one post.
The "soldier" position has been taken, but it's by someone who is trying to force everyone to put up with immaturity from other gamers. It would be no different than telling someone they were wrong for closing their eyes if a naked person went streaking down their street because "they should just look full on and accept it".
Anyway, your actions appear to be trolling so it's a waste of time trying to use reason.(You are possibly a member of a "griefer fleet" which would be quite amusing). I was disappointed to see the OP's idea which has been used in the past be flamed and so I spoke my mind as well. And so, no hard feelings, and I will not continue to post here in order to let his idea get the proper consideration without a word war. Remember, that when we play a game, we do so to escape and relax. If we would not tolerate that fictional "water baloon tosser" in real life, we should not have to do so in our free time. (physical attack or verbal abuse). As stated, the improved ignore feature would not insult/ban/or cause any negative consequence to the "internet bullies". It would however allow those who play the game as intended and follow the rules of conduct that the game devs have put in place to play in peace.
Safe Journeys.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
Seriously people, this person is a member of one of "those" fleets.
Just ignore them.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
Regarding the technical problems, having a separate toggle for each person in the game would be silly. What you'd do is create a single field in each person's account record that contains a list of values. When you load into a zone, it checks the other players against that list. If they match, they simply get skipped and aren't rendered. This is probably how the current ignore system is already implemented. All we're talking about is hooking something else onto it. How easily that can be implemented in the game's codebase is a question only the devs know the answer to, the rest of us can merely speculate.
Grow up, or go to an AOL chat room. That's where it belongs. Otherwise if you're that deprived of social interaction you may need to get out more.
Yes, the above was overly harsh, but this is to point out the OTHER side of the situation. No game needs to cater to that kind of community. It's fringe at best, and minor sliver of a % at worst.
It would be like creating a congressional bill and lobbying to get it past the House to make people ignore people on the street they see have bright neon 2-foot mohawks with tatoos on their face and multiple piercings. You've over-blown the issue and none of that legislation or effort is needed. If people act like that they have to understand a certain social stigma goes along with it.
And if they can't take it, they need to hang out somewhere where said attire/appearance is accepted and nutured. They shouldn't expect businessmen in a downtown area to welcome and accept them.
I'm sure there are tons of better arguments but there's my impromptu one.
I'd rather see folks stop the RPing than to see massive game code changes to coddle them as they RP. Or neither at all. Leave it as it is, even.
If I felt the game was just fine, then I would have nothing to contribute.
If I felt the game was so broken that any discussion would be moot, then I would have nothing to contribute.
I see a flawed game and I have my own ideas how to fix it.
You got your opinions, I got mine. Don't tell me I don't have anything to contribute just because you happen to disagree.
We're talking about the community, these are community issues.
Don't tell me I don't have the right to try to understand other' feelings.
Jumping up and down in a video game is not comparable to public display of one's sex.
You have no reason to believe that. You are hypocritically attacking me without any cause whatsoever.
Really? Where?
Likewise I have stated my view that the issue is not so clear cut. The community is larger than the sum of its parts, and when a community consists of individuals free to close their minds to anything they don't like, everyone suffers. I think that is bad.
This is a discussion. Differences of opinion are inevitable. I have intended no offense. If what I have said has aroused offense, then I am truly sorry, but I cannot help but believe that perhaps my words have cut too close to the bone. If you cannot handle a difference of opinion, then what you want is a petition, not a discussion.
That said - I honestly feel that the attitude that we see here - attempts to bully someone into silence because they volunteered an opinion some people just didn't like betrays the truth of what I say. What we have here is an untoward desire for a technical solution to the personal issue of excessive vulnerability.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
I don't agree with this either.
This is an MMO. A fantasy world. That is why we are playing the game, to spend time in a world that isn't real, and has rules of its own. Naturally our imaginations must be engaged.
If you don't want to fantasize...you are free to alt-F4, get up and go get some fresh air.
RPers engage in willing suspension of disbelief.
Hardcore players engage in self-delusion.
I think that is the basis of most of the "hate" towards RPers - cognitive dissonance, the unpleasant reminder that RPers willingly accept the fantasy of the game, the inability to reconcile this simple choice with the fact that hardcore griefers take the fantasy too seriously, getting worked up about gear, status, "epeen", etc.
But really this is another aspect of the same overall theme - the role of excess personal vulnerability in defining in-game interactions - whether it's RPers or the cluelessly hardcore.