The issues don't include prefabricating your own internalized ideas as to why people like or don't like something, and attempting to Frued the situation with fake psychoanalysis.
It comes off as pretentious and uninformed, arrogant, and onmiscient. It has nothing to do with the facts or the matter at hand.
The OP talked about a social situation. He said he didn't like it, and how it made him felt, and how he thinks it should be dealt with. The how and why the OP came to his conclusions is relevant.
Even with emotions taken out of the equation, it is a problem and it does need to be dealt with else it will continue to progress, meaning that STO will not only lose players but Cryptic will lose potential revenue which they could gain from subscriptions and the Z store.
The OP makes a fair point and even has a solution meaning that they have gone out of their way to do research and could potentially have an idea bout what is required development wise to make such a change. Either way the OP seems to have opened this thread to have their voice heard so that a solution can be considered, not a means to complain. Everyone has a right to voice their own opinion and intentional or not you have made comments which do not seem appropriate.
To any that read this and feel like jumping the band wagon please refrain from doing so and consider what your writing before posting. i agree that people have a right to express themselves in game but not at the expense of others. If you want a war i hear the old republic is going free to play this game should carry the values that the original IP was founded on and not a means to kill off time.
The only way this game is going to flourish, and bring in more players is by proving its worth keeping, there's only so much the 'Star Trek' can be used before the developers and pwe will need to look at non fans to make up their revenue and this is not the way to make that happen.
=/\= Original STO (forum account) Name: Shinsei ~ Registration Date: July 2008 =/\=
Even with emotions taken out of the equation, it is a problem and it does need to be dealt with else it will continue to progress, meaning that STO will not only lose players but Cryptic will lose potential revenue which they could gain from subscriptions and the Z store.
The OP makes a fair point and even has a solution meaning that they have gone out of their way to do research and could potentially have an idea bout what is required development wise to make such a change. Either way the OP seems to have opened this thread to have their voice heard so that a solution can be considered, not a means to complain. Everyone has a right to voice their own opinion and intentional or not you have made comments which do not seem appropriate.
To any that read this and feel like jumping the band wagon please refrain from doing so and consider what your writing before posting. i agree that people have a right to express themselves in game but not at the expense of others. If you want a war i hear the old republic is going free to play this game should carry the values that the original IP was founded on and not a means to kill off time.
The only way this game is going to flourish, and bring in more players is by proving its worth keeping, there's only so much the 'Star Trek' can be used before the developers and pwe will need to look at non fans to make up their revenue and this is not the way to make that happen.
That's a LOT of cliches.
Nothing I said was inappropriate (except perhaps one particular remark which has been removed). Just because I disagree with the OP doesn't make my views any more "complaints" than his own issues with something that happened in-game.
Nothing happened at the "expense" of the OP. Dancing around a player, or tossing grenades, is harmless. Period.
Nothing you said actually corroborated the OP's viewpoint, nor addressed my concerns. The evidence to date shows that games that go out of their way to shelter players (e.g., contemporary WoW, GW2) aren't as stable or profitable as game communities that expect a certain level of personal fortitude (e.g., early WoW, EvE, GW1).
Aetsu I am going to ask you to refrain from anymore of your derailing, you are trolling post and nothing more. And though it may end up killing the point I am making I am going to put it to you this way.
I was asked to place my suggestion here, you have been derailing and insulting to every player. You make examinations of lives you certainly know nothing about.
You have posted wall after wall of gibberish that you feel because you use words that make it clear that it is makes it more to the point.
I will point out on final examination of you and quote your own post. At this point My Point of Trolls is more than clear in both your forum actions and obvious in game issues.
However as my point has obviously been derailed by one of those people I was speaking of I feel that this need be done and end this conversation as it sits.
A group of players is harassing me by abusing the Report Spam feature to continually remove my ability to chat. They have done so at least half a dozen times, for 24 hours each time.
I have opened three in-game tickets and provided Perfect World Entertainment (PWE) multiple logs and evidence of players stating they are knowingly abusing the Report Spam feature of the chat system. Despite this, and despite on every such occasion the chat system saying that "a customer service representative has been notified", no corrective action has been taken nor have my tickets ever received a response, in or out of game.
The last two threads I created, and updated with each case of a fresh spam abuse, were deleted without any response whatsoever.
Only recently did I receive a single response: a condescending and threatening letter from PWE that did not address the issue.
This is outrageous. PWE has an obligation to enforce its rules and ensure players are not prevented from accessing the game and its functionality by harassment from other players. This issue must be dealt with. The alternative short of PWE addressing the issue is to file a complaint with the Los Angeles chapter of the BBB, the Federal Trade Commission, and perhaps even my local small claims court. I am a citizen of California; I live in Sacramento (Carmichael actually) so my options in this respect are broad.
I have been patient, I have been civil, but my patience with the non-response on this issue is quite nearly gone. I want my chat restored and these harassers actioned.
I have saved this thread on hardcopy. Deletion or actioning of this thread will be submitted as evidence of retaliation and breach of contract in the event that it should be necessary a grievance be filed.
No matter how eloquent you feel that you are, you have only managed to prove my point and in your own post in all the above derailing, you only described yourself.
This post in my opinion is closed and need no further argument, as my point will be better directed being sent in to the staff itself. It was open for those of us who care about the game.
Give us a ignor feature where anyone who
Offends us ,vanishes from our sight and I all
Forms of chat including mail.
I am here to play startrek not having that
Experience spoiled by people spamming devices
Being rude cursing or bullying others
All of those interactions are non cannon to
Startrek unless it is done I'n a Rp manner which
Then adds to the experience
Thumbs up here......
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Aetsu I am going to ask you to refrain from anymore of your derailing, you are trolling post and nothing more. And though it may end up killing the point I am making I am going to put it to you this way.
I was asked to place my suggestion here, you have been derailing and insulting to every player. You make examinations of lives you certainly know nothing about.
You have posted wall after wall of gibberish that you feel because you use words that make it clear that it is makes it more to the point.
You have no more right to presume to tell me to not post than I do to tell you not to either.
This is the kind of "wannabe hall monitor" type behavior I was alluding to earlier.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are trolling or insulting you. I haven't said anything about your life, and writing off what I say as gibberish because you happen to not agree is insulting and disrespectful.
Your behavior corroborates my interpretation of your proposal. You want a technical solution to the personal problem of inability to deal with things you don't like.
That lack of flexibility is a grossly negative force in the community. No one wants to be on the same team, fleet, or map as someone who thinks that any opinion they don't agree with is an insult, and that anyone whose ability (in this case, "eloquence") exceeds their own is mocking them. How would such a person deal with any content that isn't easy, any player who is marginally better than they, or any player who has a different opinion on content, strategy, matters of taste, etc?
Empowering that kind of attitude is bad for the community.
So what I'm getting from this thread from "Role Players" is if someone is messing around on these public zones they should be punished by GM's because you want a more real atmosphere? Isn't that the same as being a griefer? By stopping others enjoyment for your own enjoyment?
I can understand punishing those who go to personal attacks or spam chats...you know actual rule breaking. Someone standing in your way or shooting a in-game item off isn't exactly harassment. Don't get me wrong, I don't support griefing, however I don't think suggesting GM's punishing people for pitiful actions makes your actions any more justified.
I do agree that a ignore feature that blocks on the visual side of said persons toon would be nice, but punishing them for playing around in a public zone...that's where you lost me.
I don't think anybody's suggesting GM action from this. Part of the point is to relieve the burden of complaints GMs have to sift through. This would just be between the two players, that they would be invisible to each other. That's all. Nobody gets globally muted or banned.
I don't think anybody's suggesting GM action from this. Part of the point is to relieve the burden of complaints GMs have to sift through. This would just be between the two players, that they would be invisible to each other. That's all. Nobody gets globally muted or banned.
Agreed; what is proposed is a way to remove
Undesirable players from your own personal view
And chat and yourself is removed from their chat
And view
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
No, it isn't. The amount of zen a free player can make on their on vs the amount a person can make by pulling out their credit card is tiny. A free player cannot compete with that, while remaining strictly on a free basis. Therefore it is by no stretch of the term 'null and void'
Grinding is great
No it isn't. Grinding is what burns players out and drives them away
I have never been in a MMO that had entire fleets where ever member was not only doing this kind of thing, but were basically doing it as part of their fleet mantra. People being promoted and recruited, just to be harassing and annoying
You never played Meridian, Eve, UO, **** or any of the early games I take it then? Its quite common
Well leaving an area is of course an option but why should you have to leave an area to enjoy the game where you like? Even still leaving the area is often not enough, as even though a player is ignored, they have the ability to search your name and follow you to your new location to continue and often do just to harass more
I don't see how anyone can harass you when they can't PK you, grief you or have you be able to see what they say. At least not short of filing false GM reports against you or something
Last of the Issues is the amount of reports that are sent to GM's on a daily basis concerning everything from minor complaints to the most major of infractions
Which is exactly the same as any game you have ever and will ever play
Has anyone considered that maybe those complaints and reports take up so much time of the staff's busy day managing this server that they have little time left to see to all the Bug Reports and True issues in the game. The time spent reading Player Complaints over harassment, I know as a former Persistent world owner and Server Admin/Owner, that these complaints can take a very large amount of your day.
That is absurd, and an excuse - and a poor one at that. Its also blaming the community for cryptics lack of bugfixes and such that you described.
So, all this being said, I will get to my point.
In a Social Game such as Second Life, they have a feature as part of their Ignore Feature, It allows the ignore to make both players, the one ignoring and the one being ignored to no longer see each other. It makes them anonymous to each other in every way, this means no more viewing each others chat, no search ability, no interaction at all.
If you no longer can see a player, then the idea of dancing on them or whatever it is you do to make sure to impede them in anyway can no longer be seen by those players.
Someone who is an extreme harassment professional, would basically find themselves standing in an area all alone. Now this does not stop the players from being in the area together and interacting with the rest of the game. It is just that those two players will have no idea they are there outside of a conversation by other players to them.
It would not stop the fact if you ended up on an STF together that the team would be short. No they would still be interacting with the game, just no longer with each other.
Its been tried in other games and has had no significant impact on anything as far as harassment goes. Blocking is blocking, there is no need whatsoever to make you physically unable to SEE the person as well. Nor does such a feature accomplish anything other than the time wasted to implement it
Now how does this help?
It number one, alleviates the pressure on the GM's to police up and investigate every player on player complaint, freeing up their time and the resources required to keep them on those complaints
It does nothing of the sort. Again, aside from the fact you shouldn't be blaming us for cryptics actions (GMs have nothing to do with cryptic developing things btw, they are there for no other reason than to police the game), you are creating a scenario that simply makes no sense at all. If someone harasses you, you block and report them. Thats it, making them invisible will achieve nothing for anyone. If they are blocked they can't harass you.
I repeat: if you block them they can do nothing to you. Period. Your suggestion makes no sense. Its counterproductive and a waste of resources. There will always be some segment of every community that harasses people. They are not difficult to deal with, though no matter what you do you will never ever get them out of the game completely. But you don't need to. If you ignore them they can't do squat
That attention would be fleeting if this feature were implemented.
No it wouldn't. Blocking them is more than sufficient. Making them invisible does nothing to add to that.
The proposed solution would involve having every single account in the database potentially own a flag for every single other account in the database, with a yes/no permission toggle.
Not that I support it, but a cascade update would solve that problem easily enough.
I've only been playing a few months, unfortunately, apart from our small fleet of roleplayers, the larger amount of players I've encountered have been trolls, griefers, or just seemingly bad tempered, foul mouthed individuals.
Then we must be playing two different games, because i've been here since the game went live and haven't seen such a widespread issue. In fact i've never had to block a single person
The community of STO is dominated by what I call "wannabe hall monitors". Nobodies desperately trying to convince themselves and everyone around them that they are somebody.
These people very obviously have no power in life, so in-game they behave in the perceived manner of the teachers, parents and other authority figures that put them down in real life. They often seem to enjoy playing soldier way too much. STO has its own unique brand of antisocial loser behavior distinct from the kind of trolling and trash talk seen in LoL or WoW
These people have ownership of some channel or fleet, power-trip at every opportunity, talk down to others, and it's very hard to break their control over the flow of the game because the majority of the community is just as small-spirited and derives some bizarre satisfaction from kissing up to these internet bullies. New players have to play their game, remain isolated, or move on to another MMO.
I contributed substantial resources to a starbase before getting kicked from the fleet by a power-tripper. No one else liked this guy, but most of the rest of the officers, people I should have known better than to trust, were the typical loser types who play this game, nobodies who will say and do anything for reflected status and prestige in the game and don't have the guts to establish better communities - not that the game itself gives them a strong reason to, given how trivial it is. So, I was out my resources.
I don't just blame the SB system, but the kind of incredibly petty losers that STO seems to attract.
There are two sides to everything, and it sounds like you've got some issues with people who shall we say, annoyed you. You made alot of blanket insults there
I will say that I was given instruction by the Community Leader pwebranflakes to make my suggestion here, as you can see it is backed by more than one person, therfore
He told you to make the suggestion in a particular place, that does not mean to imply that he in any way endorses it.
To justify it would be a waste of time, I appreciate your post for what it is a perfect reminder as you spoke, of someone trying to prove to the world their worth.
No, to state that something should be done and then not justify it with a legitimate reason to do so is what is a waste of time
My argument for the suggestion is justified by the above.
No it isn't. That only states that there should be no fraud, illegal activities or harassment. And there shouldn't be. However it does not in itself justify anything you suggested.
To be honest, after saying that you do not even really want to log in to the game anymore and that you do not contribute to your current fleet should have been an indicater that you had nothing positive to contribute here. And so the fault is really mine for reading beyond that point.
Not wanting to contribute to a fleet after being ripped off repeatedly does not imply that one cannot contribute to a discussion
Anyway, your actions appear to be trolling so it's a waste of time trying to use reason.(You are possibly a member of a "griefer fleet" which would be quite amusing).
You shouldn't be saying such things after accusing someone of trolling. That was a personal attack. When you resort to personal attacks you have no argument
As stated, the improved ignore feature would not insult/ban/or cause any negative consequence to the "internet bullies". It would however allow those who play the game as intended and follow the rules of conduct that the game devs have put in place to play in peace.
No it wouldn't, because that ability already exists - its called the block feature
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies. ~kalecto
Here is a question: how is it two posts were edited in a row by a mod to remove violating content, yet accusations of being a troll and griefer and part of a 'griefer fleet' were left in? Last time I checked those were violations as well.
Hey Aestu if you think it's a bad idea why don't you just say so and leave it at that? Why is it every time I see you post it seems to be a direct attempt to derail a thread? Hiding the fact that you're a forum griefer and a trol behind walls of unintelligble text fools nobody. You do make me laugh, can't wait to see what you're gonna reply to this.
Do I need to repeat myself?
Apologies people I seem to have closed this thread earlier this morning by mistake (pre-coffee forum browsing at stupid o'clock).
I suggest reiterating the fact that throwing insults around in this thread is a violation, or closing it altogether, because this looks like its turning into a circular argument
Part of the point is to relieve the burden of complaints GMs have to sift through
Yes, except that it wouldn't. A block is sufficient. If a block doesn't stop someone from 'being harassed' (and someone walking around throwing grenades is NOT harassment by the way) then neither will making them invisible.
This would just be between the two players, that they would be invisible to each other
Which would take considerable resources to implement and achieve, literally, nothing that a block doesn't already do.
If it takes more resources to create a good
Ignor system
Then it's resources well spent
It takes money to make money
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
No, it isn't. The amount of zen a free player can make on their on vs the amount a person can make by pulling out their credit card is tiny. A free player cannot compete with that, while remaining strictly on a free basis. Therefore it is by no stretch of the term 'null and void' (But does that extra zen make them more powerful? They can only fly one ship, and only play one character at a time. There are not new items coming out every month that are so vastly superior to prexisting ones that came out just before that you cannot play the game well.)
No it isn't. Grinding is what burns players out and drives them away (Grinding sucks, but after a short period of time playing you have everything you need and you do not have to grind unless you want to have an account full of characters. Boredom drives people away.)
You never played Meridian, Eve, UO, **** or any of the early games I take it then? Its quite common
(Eve "griefer fleets AKA Corporations" can only operate in low sector and 0.0 space and are only a threat or annoyance to anyone wanting to go into those sectors. You do not have to go there to enjoy the game and they do not randomly fly up to you and bother you in the vast majority of zones.)
I don't see how anyone can harass you when they can't PK you, grief you or have you be able to see what they say. At least not short of filing false GM reports against you or something (When an Advertisement pops up on your screen while web surfing it did not PM you, but it's still annoying and so you do something about it.)
Its been tried in other games and has had no significant impact on anything as far as harassment goes. Blocking is blocking, there is no need whatsoever to make you physically unable to SEE the person as well. Nor does such a feature accomplish anything other than the time wasted to implement it (Blocking does not block images. Images can be bothersome as well. If a fix allows you to have it "out of sight, out of mind", why would it not be helpful? It does not harm another player.)
It does nothing of the sort. Again, aside from the fact you shouldn't be blaming us for cryptics actions (GMs have nothing to do with cryptic developing things btw, they are there for no other reason than to police the game), you are creating a scenario that simply makes no sense at all. If someone harasses you, you block and report them. Thats it, making them invisible will achieve nothing for anyone. If they are blocked they can't harass you. (PM's and zone chat alone were never the basis of the OP's concern. "blaming us", am I missing something? Do you participate in the behavior which is the topic of concern? Or did you feel responsible for the actions of others?)
I repeat: if you block them they can do nothing to you. Period. Your suggestion makes no sense. Its counterproductive and a waste of resources. There will always be some segment of every community that harasses people. They are not difficult to deal with, though no matter what you do you will never ever get them out of the game completely. But you don't need to. If you ignore them they can't do squat (Blocking PM's and zone chat.. once again was never the concern. "Counterproductive"? What does the suggestion damage?)
No it wouldn't. Blocking them is more than sufficient. Making them invisible does nothing to add to that. (Repeating again.)
Then we must be playing two different games, because i've been here since the game went live and haven't seen such a widespread issue. In fact i've never had to block a single person (Even if the "issue" only affects a minority, does that make the concern useless and invalid? If one spends their time mainly on storyline missions, FA's, or STF's they will not see the problem.)
He told you to make the suggestion in a particular place, that does not mean to imply that he in any way endorses it. (I do not see the word's "endorses it" anywhere. The OP was told to do something, and he did. He may however like the idea, or he may not. We cannot guess that.)
No, to state that something should be done and then not justify it with a legitimate reason to do so is what is a waste of time (Didn't the OP speak of a group of people that would like to see change? Wasn't that his reason?)
Not wanting to contribute to a fleet after being ripped off repeatedly does not imply that one cannot contribute to a discussion ("A discussion" no. A discussion involving ethics and character.. maybe.)
You shouldn't be saying such things after accusing someone of trolling. That was a personal attack. When you resort to personal attacks you have no argument ("Argument" yes. Debate no. I believe this person's debate was over at that point due to the.. how did you put it "blanket insults of the other poster" to anyone that agreed with the OP
No it wouldn't, because that ability already exists - its called the block feature
(Repeating again.)
Here is a question: how is it two posts were edited in a row by a mod to remove violating content, yet accusations of being a troll and griefer and part of a 'griefer fleet' were left in? Last time I checked those were violations as well. (The "accusations" seem vague as they were worded as "may be".)
Do I need to repeat myself? (No, but you are...)
I suggest reiterating the fact that throwing insults around in this thread is a violation, or closing it altogether, because this looks like its turning into a circular argument (You and I are both participating in that "circular argument" are we not? With the "quote" point/counterpoint?)
Yes, except that it wouldn't. A block is sufficient. If a block doesn't stop someone from 'being harassed' (and someone walking around throwing grenades is NOT harassment by the way) then neither will making them invisible. (harassment
(either harris-meant or huh-rass-meant) n. the act of systematic and/or continued unwanted and annoying actions of one party or a group, including threats and demands. The purposes may vary, including racial prejudice, personal malice, an attempt to force someone to quit a job or grant sexual favors, apply illegal pressure to collect a bill or merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone anxious or fearful. Such activities may be the basis for a lawsuit if due to discrimination based on race or sex, a violation on the statutory limitations on collection agencies, involve revenge by an ex-spouse, or be shown to be a form of blackmail ("I'll stop bothering you if you'll go to bed with me"). The victim may file a petition for a "stay away" (restraining) order, intended to prevent contact by the offensive party. A systematic pattern of harassment by an employee against another worker may subject the employer to a lawsuit for failure to protect the worker.
(note"continued unwanted and annoying actions", "personal malice", and "merely gain sadistic pleasure from making someone anxious".)
Which would take considerable resources to implement and achieve, literally, nothing that a block doesn't already do.
(Repeating again. A PM or zone block was not the OP's concern.)With that said, every game cannot be everything a person wants it to be. And so, this may infact cost too much in the way of the dev's resources. It is a known issue though. They must decide whether the peace, quiet, and enjoyment of the player (possibley increasing revenue) out weighs the cost of implementation. I for one do not have an answer, but I would be glad for such a feature.
Once upon a time, Dan Stahl gave an interview (12th Fleet maybe?) where he stated that the longevity of the game would depend on true Star Trek fans. He thought those were the people who would be logging in five years from now.
Given that, one must ask the question: which group of people more closely fits Mr. Stahl's definition of "Star Trek fans?" Would it be people who want to immerse themselves in the IP? Or people who enjoy annoying those who immerse themselves in the IP?
I believe the answer is obvious.
Therefore, any time and resources spent in developing the system suggested by the OP would be a direct investment in the longevity of the game.
I would like that the first post be read and looked at as it was intended.
It has been derailed and I think we should bring it back on the proper track.
I am offering a solution that does not punish anyone, nor does it require GM Micromanagement of silly disagreements and problems.
It simply offers you as a player and alternative to having to deal with undesirable people for which the idea of an Ignore feature was already for.
It is merely an extension of that product, to put the harassing player out of sight and out of mind.
This is a social world, no matter how you want to see it; If it was not, there would be no need for fleets or fleet bases, no need for friends list, and certainly no need to call it a Massively Multiplayer Game.
You all know that there are people you do not want or care to deal or speak with, I am sure more than 90% of the players in this game have an ignore list of at least a few players.
This solution has one goal in mind. It allows you as a player TO CHOSE who you are willing to deal with in a game.
Ask Yourselves this.
How does ignoring someone impede their gameplay?
How does harassment of player impede the harassed players gameplay?
There is no punishment; people complain of being muted, or constantly harassed by repeated reports ending in their muting for 24 hours. Well with this feature instead of being muted game wide, your muted by a player who does not care for your actions or speech. If anything it allows those who wish to harass, those who don't mind seeing it with no consequences. This is simple and win win.
No one is forcing anyone to have to rp, or socialize. So with this option if you do not want to read that rp in game, you can ignore that player.
This is not a witch hunt, You have a choice to play the game how you wish, where you wish without impeding anothers enjoyment of the game; and with this feature, you can no matter who you are or what you like.
Furthermore, this is Star Trek, a game built around a fan base that Enjoy dressing up as their favorite species, series star, warrior etc... If you think I am the sole person in the game that enjoys Immersion into the Star Trek genre you would be sorely mistaken.
I offer a solution that has no negative effects for anyone. If this is offending to you I am sorry. I did not point out or finger at anyone here. I offered a constructive positive solution that allows everyone to play as they wish without being forced to dealing with those undesirable players.
Thanks for the reopening of this thread and the continued input, however look at this objectively.
- Create and maintain one or two RP specific channels -- that are specific to Drozanna .
That way you can chat/RP without doing so in the Drozanna public channel .
- If you do the above , you can also make a suggestion (via the RP chat) to move into a different instance -- to get away from the person who is greefing you .
Plus , the more ppl you get to invite to the RP channel , the more you'll see your community grow .
- Create and maintain one or two RP specific channels -- that are specific to Drozanna .
That way you can chat/RP without doing so in the Drozanna public channel .
- If you do the above , you can also make a suggestion (via the RP chat) to move into a different instance -- to get away from the person who is greefing you .
Plus , the more ppl you get to invite to the RP channel , the more you'll see your community grow .
____________________________
I do not agree.
It would be better overall for everyone if a ignor
Feature removed undesirable players from you view
Chat and visuals And the same for us from their view.
Griefers and trolls do not add to the star trek experience
They take away from it for everybody except for them.
This feature would be a positive influence that
Could make this game stand out from other games
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
- Create and maintain one or two RP specific channels -- that are specific to Drozanna .
That way you can chat/RP without doing so in the Drozanna public channel .
- If you do the above , you can also make a suggestion (via the RP chat) to move into a different instance -- to get away from the person who is greefing you .
Plus , the more ppl you get to invite to the RP channel , the more you'll see your community grow .
aelfwin1 this is not Directed at you, this is directed at the general statement.
I would like to address this, as this is something I have seen come up in this post already.
The idea of a Community is to meet people, help new players, and enjoy your gaming experience. This idea is no different than saying "Go to a Ship and RP." RP, Social and or Fleet play is meant to be open, running to hide is not the solution.
Why is it that the "Greifer" is not being asked to make a channel and only do it there, or to only Grief on their bridge? Because we know that is not going to happen.
So many say; "Just accept it! It is what it is."
If this is the attitude, that we should accept that it is what it is. Then if you feel something is bugged in the game, No Need to Complain, Accept it.
An Example: "You just bought a lifetime membership, however for some reason you didn't get it, instead you are still a Silver Member." What would you do?
You of course would complain, because the thought of accepting it would be ridiculous. You would search for a solution.
This community is made up of us all, you have the right to go to every area to play freely.
This option is one that allows that CHOICE, to be yours regardless of what type of player you are, freely and without the need to be forced to seclude yourself from the community this game was designed to be.
We are a fan based game surrounding Star Trek and not every player in this game feels that way, however I and many others like me enjoy that connection with the players that share that similar connection to a Franchise we love and have followed for years.
We need a solution to the growing problem, one that appeases all. As I said in my earlier post, I am not trying to punish anyone, I am only making a suggestion that offers every player the CHOICE, to not have to deal with players they consider undesirable.
The Community is not a Channel, a Channel is a private Clique.
@PWE/Cryptic: please follow this smart feedback as it will better the satisfaction on your product and give you time to better it and don't bother with daily reports.
I still dream from time to time about using the Gateway to doff off-game in spare minutes as we were told
The best thing would be if everyone acted like adults... as I assume a majority of players probably are or ought to aspire to.
But if that were so, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The next best thing would be if PWE had the resources and ability to follow up on complaints of griefing. And here I would define 'griefing' as any activity which deliberately seeks to impede other players' enjoyment of the game.
That includes chat spam, objectionable chat, false reports, spawn camping, and "getting in other players' faces", etc.
But they don't have those kinds of resources, and probably won't get them. Even if they did, it might not be easy to prove malicious intent and mistakes will be made.
Without enforcement though, only the rule-abiding will care about following the rules. Which seems to be the situation we have today.
If, and this is a big if, the game engine could handle being able to visually render a game environment without ignored players and their f/x that would be great. It wouldn't hurt anybody, just make it so the griefers essentially don't exist to their intended victims.
It would be great if the game made a "best-effort" attempt to keep ignored players out of the same instance as the people ignoring them.
As long as it didn't impact game performance, nobody could possibly object to it. Except the griefers, of course.
But I think this would be very difficult to pull off without impacting game performance, and I do not support anything that makes game performance poor or worse.
And that brings us right back to learning to live with the situation, coming up with a reasonable alternative, or just not playing the game.
Fleet areas (and maybe later, Alliances) are a viable alternative to open social areas, I think. They're here in the game now and they aren't going away. They can be the refuge of last resort for players who simply can't tolerate mixing with others outside their fleet or friends list. I'd go so far as to say it's a very necessary refuge, where griefers cannot follow.
For everyone else, I think we have to accept the situation as it is, up to a point. The griefers will always be with us, and it will not be easy to make them "go away". With luck, grace, and perserverence they will eventually get tired of it and move on to the next game. More rarely, some of the worst offenders might get banned. But you can't count on that, or control it. The only player you can really affect is you.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
All very good arguments, however as somewhat of a programmer and with a lot of experience working with scripting in games such as Neverwinter Nights 2 persistent worlds. I can say that this can be done with not nearly as much programming and resources as it may sound.
Essentially, this solution can be arrived at by Not Rendering the ignored players to each other through a series of checks against the players in the area, which is already supplied in the fact that if you open the search page in any given area the names of all players are already there and loaded.
This in no way would hinder performance in any aspect.
The system already exist that tells the game that a player is ignored and disables the chat in one direction. The engine and the database this game is built around is more than capable of running such checks with little problems.
The need to put ignored players in separate instances would however cause an issue as this stop players from going where they want and what instance they want, therefore making this now an issue throughout the game. As I said in previous post, my solution even allows for the two players ignoring each other to participate even in STF's together. However it provides that they will not see each other, this does not stop they are still firing on Enemies or accomplishing the goal as a team.
I agree that all players should act as adults, or as you said aspire to be, and yes if that were the case we would not be discussing this. The resources spent on responding and investigating all of the complaints could be used to see this solution were put in place, rather than wasting the time of staff members to have to chase the reports. So the resources could easily be directed elsewhere to get a system like this in place.
I am sure that it is far easier to implement a long term system that will improve the quality of the gameplay for all players, than it is to continually manage Rule Violation reports, Investigate them, Respond back, institute warnings and bans. Why make work when automated systems are easy enough to implement saving money on a daily basis, and providing a gameplay system that more people will pay to be involved in.
I would like to ask that maybe a Developer come in and offer their opinion on this, not as a promise from PWE/Cryptic, however to offer the aspect from the side of the programmer of the feasibility of this system against the programming knowledge they posses of this game and engine.
As I said in previous post, my solution even allows for the two players ignoring each other to participate even in STF's together. However it provides that they will not see each other, this does not stop they are still firing on Enemies or accomplishing the goal as a team.
Well, maybe.
You're downplaying the role that chat has in both forming teams and in team play. And only Cryptic can tell us whether this is something that can be solved programmatically. But that's not the real issue.
Providing the ability for two players who are ignoring each other to participate in the same instance 'invisibly' isn't really a necessary goal. I'd even go so far as to say it's an undesirable side-effect, as it's still possible for griefers to TRIBBLE up a run if they wanted to and it would also remove the ability to target a teammate for healing, etc. It's detrimental, either way. If I'm ignoring "so-and-so" for cause, I certainly don't want to be stuck in a queue or a team with them or dependent on them for anything.
The end goal of any anti-griefing system should be to restrict or remove the griefer's ability to interfere with a player's gameplay by any reasonable means. That pretty much boils down to exclusive instancing or virtual instancing (or something functionally not much different).
I think a better solution than 'invisibility' for social areas would be to allow 5-man teams to create their own private instances of certain social areas and give them the ability to invite others into their instance. When that team zoned out of the instance, it could be unlocked for everyone. That would allow players to manage their own gaming experience instead of having it forced on them by the system. I have a feeling it might be easier to institute, and might have other benefits.
* Theoretically, only a few groups at a time would feel the need to bother with creating their own private instances, so the resource drain on the server shouldn't be vastly increased. Cryptic could even disable private instancing during heavy utilization.
* The 5-man team requirement would discourage casual use of private instances.
* The 5-man team requirement to start a private instance might actually encourage socialization.
* Private instances themselves would encourage socialization, making it easier for like-minded groups to gather for roleplay or conversation.
* If 5-Man teams are too small to warrant private instancing, maybe Cryptic could set up some form of queueing for larger groups and giving 'Queue Leaders' the ability to invite or exclude players from the queue before the private instance starts. Of course the difficulty factor in setting it up would go up.
* Better yet, allowing four 5-Man teams to collect into a 20-Man team and instance together would be beneficial for more than just social areas.
That said, the 'invisibility' option would probably work well for so-called "Adventure Zones" where private instancing is probably not very feasible.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Your post above in my opinion is way over complicating the solution, the idea is not to make it more work, but to extend the existing Ignore system so players can police themselves. What you are saying here is exactly the same as saying "Just go to a private bridge or location." That idea defeats the purpose once again of the Community and the Freedom of being in Community zones. That does not stop Community Zones from being targets of Griefers, it just allows you the player to regulate what you have to deal with, without the need for another player to be banned or muted.
As for the Down playing the Chat. Teaming is not part of the issue here. Obviously teams can be created very easily, however once again you are saying that you should just keep it in a "Private Zone."
This is a Community Oriented Game, players should not be forced to have to leave or be separated from community areas solely to allow the Griefer and Violators of the Rules the right to do so without recourse. However rather than recourse by means of punishment, they are ignored by the players that find their actions, chat and spam offending.
My suggestion not only allows those griefers to remain in game and play however they like, it allows those players who do not want to deal with to not have to; with minimal need for programming as well as by reducing the resources and finances to maintain the System of reporting already in place.
The Ignore system is already in place, Modification to that system can be made with out much programming at all. The ignore system already checks you against those on your ignore list and disables chat. I could go into more detail of how the system works, but I prefer to let that be up to the developers and not make assumptions on their system.
The Idea here is not to separate people from the community it is a way to make the community more in harmony, and reduce the number of reports received by the GM Staff over reports of arguments and harassment.
This also places the incentive to stop harassing players on the Griefers, they will learn a new understanding of respect for players or they will slowly find themselves alone.
This is not a form of punishment as each person makes a choice to be a Griefer or not. Your are not forced to be annoying and impede another players gameplay.
However a player who is being harrassed has not made such a choice, nor should they be punished for it, by being forced to submit and change areas or as you said in your first post;
And that brings us right back to learning to live with the situation, coming up with a reasonable alternative, or just not playing the game.
I am sure my solution to make everyone happy and keep the players playing and spending money in this game is a far better solution than losing players over something like the above statement, one in which I have come up with a reasonable and intelligent alternative to.
I have to say that the explanation of this is getting very repetitive, so I will refrain from answering anymore on this. I think the arguments, explanations and Pros and Cons have all been very well weighed out.
I think we should really redirect this back towards the community and ask that all the post be read and the answers be looked at carefully before adding the same discussions. This should now be left to the community to say whether they find this a reasonable solution or not.
If there are any new valid arguments that have not been covered I would be glad to answer those.
Thank You for all the input so far, it is this kind of responses I was hoping to get on this matter and hopefully to the Developers of the Community for their attention on the matter.
Comments
If you don't mean to be rude, then don't be rude.
Stick to the issues, please.
It comes off as pretentious and uninformed, arrogant, and onmiscient. It has nothing to do with the facts or the matter at hand.
Anyway, this back-and-forth isn't very useful.
The OP makes a fair point and even has a solution meaning that they have gone out of their way to do research and could potentially have an idea bout what is required development wise to make such a change. Either way the OP seems to have opened this thread to have their voice heard so that a solution can be considered, not a means to complain. Everyone has a right to voice their own opinion and intentional or not you have made comments which do not seem appropriate.
To any that read this and feel like jumping the band wagon please refrain from doing so and consider what your writing before posting. i agree that people have a right to express themselves in game but not at the expense of others. If you want a war i hear the old republic is going free to play this game should carry the values that the original IP was founded on and not a means to kill off time.
The only way this game is going to flourish, and bring in more players is by proving its worth keeping, there's only so much the 'Star Trek' can be used before the developers and pwe will need to look at non fans to make up their revenue and this is not the way to make that happen.
That's a LOT of cliches.
Nothing I said was inappropriate (except perhaps one particular remark which has been removed). Just because I disagree with the OP doesn't make my views any more "complaints" than his own issues with something that happened in-game.
Nothing happened at the "expense" of the OP. Dancing around a player, or tossing grenades, is harmless. Period.
Nothing you said actually corroborated the OP's viewpoint, nor addressed my concerns. The evidence to date shows that games that go out of their way to shelter players (e.g., contemporary WoW, GW2) aren't as stable or profitable as game communities that expect a certain level of personal fortitude (e.g., early WoW, EvE, GW1).
I was asked to place my suggestion here, you have been derailing and insulting to every player. You make examinations of lives you certainly know nothing about.
You have posted wall after wall of gibberish that you feel because you use words that make it clear that it is makes it more to the point.
I will point out on final examination of you and quote your own post. At this point My Point of Trolls is more than clear in both your forum actions and obvious in game issues.
However as my point has obviously been derailed by one of those people I was speaking of I feel that this need be done and end this conversation as it sits.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=288821
No matter how eloquent you feel that you are, you have only managed to prove my point and in your own post in all the above derailing, you only described yourself.
This post in my opinion is closed and need no further argument, as my point will be better directed being sent in to the staff itself. It was open for those of us who care about the game.
Have a Nice Day.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
Give us a ignor feature where anyone who
Offends us ,vanishes from our sight and I all
Forms of chat including mail.
I am here to play startrek not having that
Experience spoiled by people spamming devices
Being rude cursing or bullying others
All of those interactions are non cannon to
Startrek unless it is done I'n a Rp manner which
Then adds to the experience
Thumbs up here......
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
You have no more right to presume to tell me to not post than I do to tell you not to either.
This is the kind of "wannabe hall monitor" type behavior I was alluding to earlier.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they are trolling or insulting you. I haven't said anything about your life, and writing off what I say as gibberish because you happen to not agree is insulting and disrespectful.
Your behavior corroborates my interpretation of your proposal. You want a technical solution to the personal problem of inability to deal with things you don't like.
That lack of flexibility is a grossly negative force in the community. No one wants to be on the same team, fleet, or map as someone who thinks that any opinion they don't agree with is an insult, and that anyone whose ability (in this case, "eloquence") exceeds their own is mocking them. How would such a person deal with any content that isn't easy, any player who is marginally better than they, or any player who has a different opinion on content, strategy, matters of taste, etc?
Empowering that kind of attitude is bad for the community.
Also, question - if the issue is interference with world RP, why not just stage the RP event on a ship or starbase?
I'm reopening it now with my apologies to the OP.
Don't Mod without Caffeine people - it's bad JuJu!
I can understand punishing those who go to personal attacks or spam chats...you know actual rule breaking. Someone standing in your way or shooting a in-game item off isn't exactly harassment. Don't get me wrong, I don't support griefing, however I don't think suggesting GM's punishing people for pitiful actions makes your actions any more justified.
I do agree that a ignore feature that blocks on the visual side of said persons toon would be nice, but punishing them for playing around in a public zone...that's where you lost me.
Agreed; what is proposed is a way to remove
Undesirable players from your own personal view
And chat and yourself is removed from their chat
And view
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
No, it isn't. The amount of zen a free player can make on their on vs the amount a person can make by pulling out their credit card is tiny. A free player cannot compete with that, while remaining strictly on a free basis. Therefore it is by no stretch of the term 'null and void'
No it isn't. Grinding is what burns players out and drives them away
You never played Meridian, Eve, UO, **** or any of the early games I take it then? Its quite common
I don't see how anyone can harass you when they can't PK you, grief you or have you be able to see what they say. At least not short of filing false GM reports against you or something
Which is exactly the same as any game you have ever and will ever play
That is absurd, and an excuse - and a poor one at that. Its also blaming the community for cryptics lack of bugfixes and such that you described.
Its been tried in other games and has had no significant impact on anything as far as harassment goes. Blocking is blocking, there is no need whatsoever to make you physically unable to SEE the person as well. Nor does such a feature accomplish anything other than the time wasted to implement it
It does nothing of the sort. Again, aside from the fact you shouldn't be blaming us for cryptics actions (GMs have nothing to do with cryptic developing things btw, they are there for no other reason than to police the game), you are creating a scenario that simply makes no sense at all. If someone harasses you, you block and report them. Thats it, making them invisible will achieve nothing for anyone. If they are blocked they can't harass you.
I repeat: if you block them they can do nothing to you. Period. Your suggestion makes no sense. Its counterproductive and a waste of resources. There will always be some segment of every community that harasses people. They are not difficult to deal with, though no matter what you do you will never ever get them out of the game completely. But you don't need to. If you ignore them they can't do squat
No it wouldn't. Blocking them is more than sufficient. Making them invisible does nothing to add to that.
Not that I support it, but a cascade update would solve that problem easily enough.
Then we must be playing two different games, because i've been here since the game went live and haven't seen such a widespread issue. In fact i've never had to block a single person
There are two sides to everything, and it sounds like you've got some issues with people who shall we say, annoyed you. You made alot of blanket insults there
He told you to make the suggestion in a particular place, that does not mean to imply that he in any way endorses it.
No, to state that something should be done and then not justify it with a legitimate reason to do so is what is a waste of time
No it isn't. That only states that there should be no fraud, illegal activities or harassment. And there shouldn't be. However it does not in itself justify anything you suggested.
Not wanting to contribute to a fleet after being ripped off repeatedly does not imply that one cannot contribute to a discussion
You shouldn't be saying such things after accusing someone of trolling. That was a personal attack. When you resort to personal attacks you have no argument
No it wouldn't, because that ability already exists - its called the block feature
Here is a question: how is it two posts were edited in a row by a mod to remove violating content, yet accusations of being a troll and griefer and part of a 'griefer fleet' were left in? Last time I checked those were violations as well.
Do I need to repeat myself?
I suggest reiterating the fact that throwing insults around in this thread is a violation, or closing it altogether, because this looks like its turning into a circular argument
Yes, except that it wouldn't. A block is sufficient. If a block doesn't stop someone from 'being harassed' (and someone walking around throwing grenades is NOT harassment by the way) then neither will making them invisible.
Which would take considerable resources to implement and achieve, literally, nothing that a block doesn't already do.
Ignor system
Then it's resources well spent
It takes money to make money
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
With that said, every game cannot be everything a person wants it to be. And so, this may infact cost too much in the way of the dev's resources. It is a known issue though. They must decide whether the peace, quiet, and enjoyment of the player (possibley increasing revenue) out weighs the cost of implementation. I for one do not have an answer, but I would be glad for such a feature.
Given that, one must ask the question: which group of people more closely fits Mr. Stahl's definition of "Star Trek fans?" Would it be people who want to immerse themselves in the IP? Or people who enjoy annoying those who immerse themselves in the IP?
I believe the answer is obvious.
Therefore, any time and resources spent in developing the system suggested by the OP would be a direct investment in the longevity of the game.
It has been derailed and I think we should bring it back on the proper track.
I am offering a solution that does not punish anyone, nor does it require GM Micromanagement of silly disagreements and problems.
It simply offers you as a player and alternative to having to deal with undesirable people for which the idea of an Ignore feature was already for.
It is merely an extension of that product, to put the harassing player out of sight and out of mind.
This is a social world, no matter how you want to see it; If it was not, there would be no need for fleets or fleet bases, no need for friends list, and certainly no need to call it a Massively Multiplayer Game.
You all know that there are people you do not want or care to deal or speak with, I am sure more than 90% of the players in this game have an ignore list of at least a few players.
This solution has one goal in mind. It allows you as a player TO CHOSE who you are willing to deal with in a game.
Ask Yourselves this.
How does ignoring someone impede their gameplay?
How does harassment of player impede the harassed players gameplay?
There is no punishment; people complain of being muted, or constantly harassed by repeated reports ending in their muting for 24 hours. Well with this feature instead of being muted game wide, your muted by a player who does not care for your actions or speech. If anything it allows those who wish to harass, those who don't mind seeing it with no consequences. This is simple and win win.
No one is forcing anyone to have to rp, or socialize. So with this option if you do not want to read that rp in game, you can ignore that player.
This is not a witch hunt, You have a choice to play the game how you wish, where you wish without impeding anothers enjoyment of the game; and with this feature, you can no matter who you are or what you like.
Furthermore, this is Star Trek, a game built around a fan base that Enjoy dressing up as their favorite species, series star, warrior etc... If you think I am the sole person in the game that enjoys Immersion into the Star Trek genre you would be sorely mistaken.
I offer a solution that has no negative effects for anyone. If this is offending to you I am sorry. I did not point out or finger at anyone here. I offered a constructive positive solution that allows everyone to play as they wish without being forced to dealing with those undesirable players.
Thanks for the reopening of this thread and the continued input, however look at this objectively.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
The fact I said it is backed by more than one person refers to those that have posted to voice their opinion that they agree with this post.
Just want that cleared up.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
- Create and maintain one or two RP specific channels -- that are specific to Drozanna .
That way you can chat/RP without doing so in the Drozanna public channel .
- If you do the above , you can also make a suggestion (via the RP chat) to move into a different instance -- to get away from the person who is greefing you .
Plus , the more ppl you get to invite to the RP channel , the more you'll see your community grow .
____________________________
I do not agree.
It would be better overall for everyone if a ignor
Feature removed undesirable players from you view
Chat and visuals And the same for us from their view.
Griefers and trolls do not add to the star trek experience
They take away from it for everybody except for them.
This feature would be a positive influence that
Could make this game stand out from other games
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
It's a shame you can't just take a Bat'leth to them...
The KDF on Drozana would never tollerate their behaviour.
aelfwin1 this is not Directed at you, this is directed at the general statement.
I would like to address this, as this is something I have seen come up in this post already.
The idea of a Community is to meet people, help new players, and enjoy your gaming experience. This idea is no different than saying "Go to a Ship and RP." RP, Social and or Fleet play is meant to be open, running to hide is not the solution.
Why is it that the "Greifer" is not being asked to make a channel and only do it there, or to only Grief on their bridge? Because we know that is not going to happen.
So many say; "Just accept it! It is what it is."
If this is the attitude, that we should accept that it is what it is. Then if you feel something is bugged in the game, No Need to Complain, Accept it.
An Example: "You just bought a lifetime membership, however for some reason you didn't get it, instead you are still a Silver Member." What would you do?
You of course would complain, because the thought of accepting it would be ridiculous. You would search for a solution.
This community is made up of us all, you have the right to go to every area to play freely.
This option is one that allows that CHOICE, to be yours regardless of what type of player you are, freely and without the need to be forced to seclude yourself from the community this game was designed to be.
We are a fan based game surrounding Star Trek and not every player in this game feels that way, however I and many others like me enjoy that connection with the players that share that similar connection to a Franchise we love and have followed for years.
We need a solution to the growing problem, one that appeases all. As I said in my earlier post, I am not trying to punish anyone, I am only making a suggestion that offers every player the CHOICE, to not have to deal with players they consider undesirable.
The Community is not a Channel, a Channel is a private Clique.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
@PWE/Cryptic: please follow this smart feedback as it will better the satisfaction on your product and give you time to better it and don't bother with daily reports.
But if that were so, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
The next best thing would be if PWE had the resources and ability to follow up on complaints of griefing. And here I would define 'griefing' as any activity which deliberately seeks to impede other players' enjoyment of the game.
That includes chat spam, objectionable chat, false reports, spawn camping, and "getting in other players' faces", etc.
But they don't have those kinds of resources, and probably won't get them. Even if they did, it might not be easy to prove malicious intent and mistakes will be made.
Without enforcement though, only the rule-abiding will care about following the rules. Which seems to be the situation we have today.
If, and this is a big if, the game engine could handle being able to visually render a game environment without ignored players and their f/x that would be great. It wouldn't hurt anybody, just make it so the griefers essentially don't exist to their intended victims.
It would be great if the game made a "best-effort" attempt to keep ignored players out of the same instance as the people ignoring them.
As long as it didn't impact game performance, nobody could possibly object to it. Except the griefers, of course.
But I think this would be very difficult to pull off without impacting game performance, and I do not support anything that makes game performance poor or worse.
And that brings us right back to learning to live with the situation, coming up with a reasonable alternative, or just not playing the game.
Fleet areas (and maybe later, Alliances) are a viable alternative to open social areas, I think. They're here in the game now and they aren't going away. They can be the refuge of last resort for players who simply can't tolerate mixing with others outside their fleet or friends list. I'd go so far as to say it's a very necessary refuge, where griefers cannot follow.
For everyone else, I think we have to accept the situation as it is, up to a point. The griefers will always be with us, and it will not be easy to make them "go away". With luck, grace, and perserverence they will eventually get tired of it and move on to the next game. More rarely, some of the worst offenders might get banned. But you can't count on that, or control it. The only player you can really affect is you.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Essentially, this solution can be arrived at by Not Rendering the ignored players to each other through a series of checks against the players in the area, which is already supplied in the fact that if you open the search page in any given area the names of all players are already there and loaded.
This in no way would hinder performance in any aspect.
The system already exist that tells the game that a player is ignored and disables the chat in one direction. The engine and the database this game is built around is more than capable of running such checks with little problems.
The need to put ignored players in separate instances would however cause an issue as this stop players from going where they want and what instance they want, therefore making this now an issue throughout the game. As I said in previous post, my solution even allows for the two players ignoring each other to participate even in STF's together. However it provides that they will not see each other, this does not stop they are still firing on Enemies or accomplishing the goal as a team.
I agree that all players should act as adults, or as you said aspire to be, and yes if that were the case we would not be discussing this. The resources spent on responding and investigating all of the complaints could be used to see this solution were put in place, rather than wasting the time of staff members to have to chase the reports. So the resources could easily be directed elsewhere to get a system like this in place.
I am sure that it is far easier to implement a long term system that will improve the quality of the gameplay for all players, than it is to continually manage Rule Violation reports, Investigate them, Respond back, institute warnings and bans. Why make work when automated systems are easy enough to implement saving money on a daily basis, and providing a gameplay system that more people will pay to be involved in.
I would like to ask that maybe a Developer come in and offer their opinion on this, not as a promise from PWE/Cryptic, however to offer the aspect from the side of the programmer of the feasibility of this system against the programming knowledge they posses of this game and engine.
Fleet Eclipse Intel Cruiser
Well, maybe.
You're downplaying the role that chat has in both forming teams and in team play. And only Cryptic can tell us whether this is something that can be solved programmatically. But that's not the real issue.
Providing the ability for two players who are ignoring each other to participate in the same instance 'invisibly' isn't really a necessary goal. I'd even go so far as to say it's an undesirable side-effect, as it's still possible for griefers to TRIBBLE up a run if they wanted to and it would also remove the ability to target a teammate for healing, etc. It's detrimental, either way. If I'm ignoring "so-and-so" for cause, I certainly don't want to be stuck in a queue or a team with them or dependent on them for anything.
The end goal of any anti-griefing system should be to restrict or remove the griefer's ability to interfere with a player's gameplay by any reasonable means. That pretty much boils down to exclusive instancing or virtual instancing (or something functionally not much different).
I think a better solution than 'invisibility' for social areas would be to allow 5-man teams to create their own private instances of certain social areas and give them the ability to invite others into their instance. When that team zoned out of the instance, it could be unlocked for everyone. That would allow players to manage their own gaming experience instead of having it forced on them by the system. I have a feeling it might be easier to institute, and might have other benefits.
* Theoretically, only a few groups at a time would feel the need to bother with creating their own private instances, so the resource drain on the server shouldn't be vastly increased. Cryptic could even disable private instancing during heavy utilization.
* The 5-man team requirement would discourage casual use of private instances.
* The 5-man team requirement to start a private instance might actually encourage socialization.
* Private instances themselves would encourage socialization, making it easier for like-minded groups to gather for roleplay or conversation.
* If 5-Man teams are too small to warrant private instancing, maybe Cryptic could set up some form of queueing for larger groups and giving 'Queue Leaders' the ability to invite or exclude players from the queue before the private instance starts. Of course the difficulty factor in setting it up would go up.
* Better yet, allowing four 5-Man teams to collect into a 20-Man team and instance together would be beneficial for more than just social areas.
That said, the 'invisibility' option would probably work well for so-called "Adventure Zones" where private instancing is probably not very feasible.
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Your post above in my opinion is way over complicating the solution, the idea is not to make it more work, but to extend the existing Ignore system so players can police themselves. What you are saying here is exactly the same as saying "Just go to a private bridge or location." That idea defeats the purpose once again of the Community and the Freedom of being in Community zones. That does not stop Community Zones from being targets of Griefers, it just allows you the player to regulate what you have to deal with, without the need for another player to be banned or muted.
As for the Down playing the Chat. Teaming is not part of the issue here. Obviously teams can be created very easily, however once again you are saying that you should just keep it in a "Private Zone."
This is a Community Oriented Game, players should not be forced to have to leave or be separated from community areas solely to allow the Griefer and Violators of the Rules the right to do so without recourse. However rather than recourse by means of punishment, they are ignored by the players that find their actions, chat and spam offending.
My suggestion not only allows those griefers to remain in game and play however they like, it allows those players who do not want to deal with to not have to; with minimal need for programming as well as by reducing the resources and finances to maintain the System of reporting already in place.
The Ignore system is already in place, Modification to that system can be made with out much programming at all. The ignore system already checks you against those on your ignore list and disables chat. I could go into more detail of how the system works, but I prefer to let that be up to the developers and not make assumptions on their system.
The Idea here is not to separate people from the community it is a way to make the community more in harmony, and reduce the number of reports received by the GM Staff over reports of arguments and harassment.
This also places the incentive to stop harassing players on the Griefers, they will learn a new understanding of respect for players or they will slowly find themselves alone.
This is not a form of punishment as each person makes a choice to be a Griefer or not. Your are not forced to be annoying and impede another players gameplay.
However a player who is being harrassed has not made such a choice, nor should they be punished for it, by being forced to submit and change areas or as you said in your first post; I am sure my solution to make everyone happy and keep the players playing and spending money in this game is a far better solution than losing players over something like the above statement, one in which I have come up with a reasonable and intelligent alternative to.
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I think we should really redirect this back towards the community and ask that all the post be read and the answers be looked at carefully before adding the same discussions. This should now be left to the community to say whether they find this a reasonable solution or not.
If there are any new valid arguments that have not been covered I would be glad to answer those.
Thank You for all the input so far, it is this kind of responses I was hoping to get on this matter and hopefully to the Developers of the Community for their attention on the matter.
Live Long and Prosper!
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