Beams need DPS raised because in PVP every other player is using the Borg kits and Tac team to keep there shields inpenetrable. Beams don't wear down Tac team as much as DHC cannons do. DHC's drains all the surounding shields within seconds while Tac team is in use. Beams take to long to wear down the sheild before the other player activates EPS then progress is loss. On top of that, if the other player has the Borg kit, then he doesn't have to hit EPS because the computer will heal his hull and regenerate his shields for him. DHC's can eventually wear down the shields of borg kit, as long as its sustained with RCF 3, which only escorts can use. The player with beams or torpedos will not be able to do anything to him. In a one on one situation that is an imbalance. The players with cannons and borg kit will kill all and not be killed while players with beams and torpedos can do nothing against the other players with borg kits become victims of ships with cannons.
The Borg sets got a possible nerf incoming unless you run all six, I guess.
TT is due for change as well.
So the whole point of change may be moot, especially if BFI DOffs get a change as well.:cool:
Though in the future crossfaction MACO/KHG sets may make a beam buff uneccassary.
Though I would still like to see Heavy Beams, new BOff powers for beam and cannon, the C/BC turnrate buff come to be in the game.
Guys, your @-name kinda has to be your forum name, since your @-name is your account name lol... btw, feel free to add me.
That's only true for people who joined after the PWE takeover.
For veterans, it's ... pretty much guaranteed that their forum name is different from their @-name.
That ... or Roach is a seer and knew two years ahead that Crypric would get swallowed up, and didn't just take "bitemepwe" as nick after the new forum screwed up the usernames (reserving them, but not making them available).
I'd bet he'd like the "seer" option better, so don't ask him.
Oh, and sorry we forgot you - but we did finish our experiment.
PvP: adam shot at my poor old MAC for a good half an hour, without really making a dent. He had to run away quite a few times though, as ... well, I was denting him.
No casualities though, so we moved on after a while, and repeated the experiment with reversed roles.
Result: just the same, though I was slightly more successful in denting, but ... my TRIBBLE'scort still uses the plasma weapons I bought for PvE (where they're perfectly fine), which are ... not really suited to PvP.
-> Cruiser dealt damage, Escort could run away to prevent getting killed.
According to ingame stats, for both experiments: Cruisers dealt more damage, Escorts dealt more healing - probably because they had more reasons to actually heal.
Parsing with ACT revelaed that Escorts, if flown offensively, have a slight edge in dps-output (such a surprise ...), but the cruiser, even if flown offensively, too, can nearly match it while still being quite indestructible (not surprising, either).
After that, we went for some eSTFs.
And as adam mentioned in the other thread, as soon as he got persuaded to play with his power setting, he pretty much matched my MACs dps-output, and we were both scratching the 4k dps mark. With a bit of practice, he'll probably out-dps me next time we try it, since the Excelsior has an advantage in turnrate over the MAC, which allows more time on target and fighting at closer range.
(Well, I'll soon shelve the MAC, I guess - next time I have an abundance of other people's money to spend I'll use if for a nice P2W ship, so it won't get too easy :P)
'Have to admit: he can play. He just needed some hints to get there.
Yup. Imagine how much DPS I could pull out of my tac oddy. Would be nice to fly with ya so I can get the parsed version, since I did change how I did things. But as I said, it just took him a while, and he learned.
So adam, just gotta work on it, and you can match most escorts. Or come closer. Just gotta remember, escorts are for bursts, cruisers are sustained damage.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
The Borg sets got a possible nerf incoming unless you run all six, I guess.
TT is due for change as well.
So the whole point of change may be moot, especially if BFI DOffs get a change as well.:cool:
Though in the future crossfaction MACO/KHG sets may make a beam buff uneccassary.
Though I would still like to see Heavy Beams, new BOff powers for beam and cannon, the C/BC turnrate buff come to be in the game.
yes i believe cruisers should have torp and beam boosts but escorts should keep they cannon strength and lose some of their hp
I'd like to go a little further on that statement:
why not give all ships a build in torpedo launcher (like a hangar) cruisers get 2 one front one aft and they operate with 180 degree angle.
sci ships get 1 front with 180 degree angle too and escorts a 90 degree torp launcher front only.
Now you can put in a torpedo launcher (or a mine launcher) into those slots and fire torpedos as usual. problem solved.
Or torpedos become a commodity and you must stockpile torpedos in a device like slot on your ship. Cruisers have 4 slots with a stack of 250 each. sci vessels have 3 slots and escorts only 2. That would mean you can variate during combat what kind of torpedo you like to fire.
Example: there are 4 spheres with shields infront of me...i switch to transphasics for a spread. their shields are gone i go back to photons or quantum.
I always said there should be large beam arrays (like 2 slot ones) and cruiser type torpedo tubes that have wider arc and shoot several torps. But this would be too Star Trek, hence won't happen.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
I'd like to go a little further on that statement:
why not give all ships a build in torpedo launcher (like a hangar) cruisers get 2 one front one aft and they operate with 180 degree angle.
sci ships get 1 front with 180 degree angle too and escorts a 90 degree torp launcher front only.
Now you can put in a torpedo launcher (or a mine launcher) into those slots and fire torpedos as usual. problem solved.
The only problem I can spot with this is if it's built in then we might well be left without control of what type we're using. I suggested the idea of a dual torp launcher (cruiser only as if it were mountable on all ships escorts would have the power to make it OP but if we only exclude them they'd be up in arms) mountable both ends thus giving reason to break broadside
Or torpedos become a commodity and you must stockpile torpedos in a device like slot on your ship. Cruisers have 4 slots with a stack of 250 each. sci vessels have 3 slots and escorts only 2. That would mean you can variate during combat what kind of torpedo you like to fire.
Example: there are 4 spheres with shields infront of me...i switch to transphasics for a spread. their shields are gone i go back to photons or quantum.
Sounds like a nice plan to TRIBBLE all sci torpedo boats. Good job...
With STOs combat mechanics in mind, why not just keep it the way it is? People who think they need torpedoes for their cruiser can do this, they only have to divert the necessary skill points from other more useful skills. People who want a wider angle allready can do this with Ferengi missiles and the Wide Angle Quantum Torp.
For PvE it's not hard to utilize torpedoes on cruisers if you really want too. For PvP, they will not become more viable just because they have a wider angle.
Sounds like a nice plan to TRIBBLE all sci torpedo boats. Good job...
With STOs combat mechanics in mind, why not just keep it the way it is? People who think they need torpedoes for their cruiser can do this, they only have to divert the necessary skill points from other more useful skills. People who want a wider angle allready can do this with Ferengi missiles and the Wide Angle Quantum Torp.
For PvE it's not hard to utilize torpedoes on cruisers if you really want too. For PvP, they will not become more viable just because they have a wider angle.
i did not think about that. thx for pointing it out.
my initial idea was to have torpedos as a standard fit for any ship, and as cruisers are the bigger ships they naturally have the highest torpedo stockpile and launcher number. And to add to the game mechanic that torpedos are a resource like devices that are not indefinately available in combat, and since not all torpedos are suiteable for all situations, to be able to have a variation during combat seems interesting, atleast to me.
however i fail to see how skilling projectile weapons forces anybody to miss out the more usefull skills since the last 3 are mostly irrelevant and not worth it. I mean there surely are more usefull skills than others, but to make projektile weapons worthwile doesn't mean you cripple your skills somewhere else.
sure there isn't much sense in skilling projectile weapons if you go 8 beams...but the points gained there only mean minor gain in the higher tiers or a sci power more that may not even be usefull for the build (i'm looking at you flow capacitator)
For the Devs. Why not increase there shield bonus. Turn rates are i think correct for Cruisers, they are big bricks that have a larger power core. It should show threw in power transfer and shield management. Firepower if for esccorts, but shielding is for Cruisers.
The only problem I can spot with this is if it's built in then we might well be left without control of what type we're using. I suggested the idea of a dual torp launcher (cruiser only as if it were mountable on all ships escorts would have the power to make it OP but if we only exclude them they'd be up in arms) mountable both ends thus giving reason to break broadside
Actually it wouldn't bother me as an escort pilot. I've always thought cruisers and science ships should have uniquely tailored weapons.
I'm not opposed to them doing more damage, so long as they don't do more than escorts.
For the Devs. Why not increase there shield bonus. Turn rates are i think correct for Cruisers, they are big bricks that have a larger power core. It should show threw in power transfer and shield management. Firepower if for esccorts, but shielding is for Cruisers.
Eh. The only thing that really kills a well run cruiser is stupid gimmick weapons like the NPC-strength Isometric Charge, or the Borg torpedoes that can hit for 200K damage. Cruisers stay alive just fine as-is, the issue that merely staying alive isn't contributing to the win. Staying alive is stalemate. You need to be doing relevant damage at the same time as you're staying alive, and the slower cruisers really struggle here.
I'm in favor of doing two things:
1.) Increase the maneuvering of all cruisers into the 9 to 11 degrees per second range. Still much worse than an escort, and worse than a lot of the science ships, but no long torturous. I have a Mirror Vor'cha battlecruiser, and I think it's one of the most amazing and well-balanced ships in the entire game; it's what cruisers should be. (Turns 10 deg/s)
2.) Modify Attack Pattern Delta to:
- 30 second cooldown (was 45)
- Threat generation for self is 200% for 10 seconds
- Multiplies your ship's damage resistances by a factor of N for 10 seconds
Delta then becomes the "cruiser attack pattern", and a real alternative to Beta.
Cruisers are better able to take hits and recover from them, which is why if you can you want the enemy to be shooting you instead of other people. The increased threat generation helps you in this essential cruiser role by making you seem like a more threatening target and the target of more enemies. And the damage resistance should be a multiplicative factor because, the way armor stacking works, a flat amount that is relevant to a ship with no armor will be trivial to a cruiser carrying armor while a flat amount that is relevant to a cruiser will be ludicrously effective to other ships. If the bonus was instead something like +25% to your actual damage resistances, then it becomes more relevant to your build when you carry more armor to make use of it.
however i fail to see how skilling projectile weapons forces anybody to miss out the more usefull skills since the last 3 are mostly irrelevant and not worth it. I mean there surely are more usefull skills than others, but to make projektile weapons worthwile doesn't mean you cripple your skills somewhere else.
sure there isn't much sense in skilling projectile weapons if you go 8 beams...but the points gained there only mean minor gain in the higher tiers or a sci power more that may not even be usefull for the build (i'm looking at you flow capacitator)
For the Devs. Why not increase there shield bonus. Turn rates are i think correct for Cruisers, they are big bricks that have a larger power core. It should show threw in power transfer and shield management. Firepower if for esccorts, but shielding is for Cruisers.
Cruiser already have higher shield mods than escorts. You want even more? Go get a sci ship.
Comments
Guys, your @-name kinda has to be your forum name, since your @-name is your account name lol... btw, feel free to add me.
TT is due for change as well.
So the whole point of change may be moot, especially if BFI DOffs get a change as well.:cool:
Though in the future crossfaction MACO/KHG sets may make a beam buff uneccassary.
Though I would still like to see Heavy Beams, new BOff powers for beam and cannon, the C/BC turnrate buff come to be in the game.
R.I.P
That's only true for people who joined after the PWE takeover.
For veterans, it's ... pretty much guaranteed that their forum name is different from their @-name.
That ... or Roach is a seer and knew two years ahead that Crypric would get swallowed up, and didn't just take "bitemepwe" as nick after the new forum screwed up the usernames (reserving them, but not making them available).
I'd bet he'd like the "seer" option better, so don't ask him.
Oh, and sorry we forgot you - but we did finish our experiment.
PvP: adam shot at my poor old MAC for a good half an hour, without really making a dent. He had to run away quite a few times though, as ... well, I was denting him.
No casualities though, so we moved on after a while, and repeated the experiment with reversed roles.
Result: just the same, though I was slightly more successful in denting, but ... my TRIBBLE'scort still uses the plasma weapons I bought for PvE (where they're perfectly fine), which are ... not really suited to PvP.
-> Cruiser dealt damage, Escort could run away to prevent getting killed.
According to ingame stats, for both experiments: Cruisers dealt more damage, Escorts dealt more healing - probably because they had more reasons to actually heal.
Parsing with ACT revelaed that Escorts, if flown offensively, have a slight edge in dps-output (such a surprise ...), but the cruiser, even if flown offensively, too, can nearly match it while still being quite indestructible (not surprising, either).
After that, we went for some eSTFs.
And as adam mentioned in the other thread, as soon as he got persuaded to play with his power setting, he pretty much matched my MACs dps-output, and we were both scratching the 4k dps mark. With a bit of practice, he'll probably out-dps me next time we try it, since the Excelsior has an advantage in turnrate over the MAC, which allows more time on target and fighting at closer range.
(Well, I'll soon shelve the MAC, I guess - next time I have an abundance of other people's money to spend I'll use if for a nice P2W ship, so it won't get too easy :P)
'Have to admit: he can play. He just needed some hints to get there.
So adam, just gotta work on it, and you can match most escorts. Or come closer. Just gotta remember, escorts are for bursts, cruisers are sustained damage.
I agree :-)
I'd like to go a little further on that statement:
why not give all ships a build in torpedo launcher (like a hangar) cruisers get 2 one front one aft and they operate with 180 degree angle.
sci ships get 1 front with 180 degree angle too and escorts a 90 degree torp launcher front only.
Now you can put in a torpedo launcher (or a mine launcher) into those slots and fire torpedos as usual. problem solved.
Or torpedos become a commodity and you must stockpile torpedos in a device like slot on your ship. Cruisers have 4 slots with a stack of 250 each. sci vessels have 3 slots and escorts only 2. That would mean you can variate during combat what kind of torpedo you like to fire.
Example: there are 4 spheres with shields infront of me...i switch to transphasics for a spread. their shields are gone i go back to photons or quantum.
The only problem I can spot with this is if it's built in then we might well be left without control of what type we're using. I suggested the idea of a dual torp launcher (cruiser only as if it were mountable on all ships escorts would have the power to make it OP but if we only exclude them they'd be up in arms) mountable both ends thus giving reason to break broadside
Sounds like a nice plan to TRIBBLE all sci torpedo boats. Good job...
With STOs combat mechanics in mind, why not just keep it the way it is? People who think they need torpedoes for their cruiser can do this, they only have to divert the necessary skill points from other more useful skills. People who want a wider angle allready can do this with Ferengi missiles and the Wide Angle Quantum Torp.
For PvE it's not hard to utilize torpedoes on cruisers if you really want too. For PvP, they will not become more viable just because they have a wider angle.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010
i did not think about that. thx for pointing it out.
my initial idea was to have torpedos as a standard fit for any ship, and as cruisers are the bigger ships they naturally have the highest torpedo stockpile and launcher number. And to add to the game mechanic that torpedos are a resource like devices that are not indefinately available in combat, and since not all torpedos are suiteable for all situations, to be able to have a variation during combat seems interesting, atleast to me.
however i fail to see how skilling projectile weapons forces anybody to miss out the more usefull skills since the last 3 are mostly irrelevant and not worth it. I mean there surely are more usefull skills than others, but to make projektile weapons worthwile doesn't mean you cripple your skills somewhere else.
sure there isn't much sense in skilling projectile weapons if you go 8 beams...but the points gained there only mean minor gain in the higher tiers or a sci power more that may not even be usefull for the build (i'm looking at you flow capacitator)
Actually it wouldn't bother me as an escort pilot. I've always thought cruisers and science ships should have uniquely tailored weapons.
I'm not opposed to them doing more damage, so long as they don't do more than escorts.
Eh. The only thing that really kills a well run cruiser is stupid gimmick weapons like the NPC-strength Isometric Charge, or the Borg torpedoes that can hit for 200K damage. Cruisers stay alive just fine as-is, the issue that merely staying alive isn't contributing to the win. Staying alive is stalemate. You need to be doing relevant damage at the same time as you're staying alive, and the slower cruisers really struggle here.
I'm in favor of doing two things:
1.) Increase the maneuvering of all cruisers into the 9 to 11 degrees per second range. Still much worse than an escort, and worse than a lot of the science ships, but no long torturous. I have a Mirror Vor'cha battlecruiser, and I think it's one of the most amazing and well-balanced ships in the entire game; it's what cruisers should be. (Turns 10 deg/s)
2.) Modify Attack Pattern Delta to:
- 30 second cooldown (was 45)
- Threat generation for self is 200% for 10 seconds
- Multiplies your ship's damage resistances by a factor of N for 10 seconds
Delta then becomes the "cruiser attack pattern", and a real alternative to Beta.
Cruisers are better able to take hits and recover from them, which is why if you can you want the enemy to be shooting you instead of other people. The increased threat generation helps you in this essential cruiser role by making you seem like a more threatening target and the target of more enemies. And the damage resistance should be a multiplicative factor because, the way armor stacking works, a flat amount that is relevant to a ship with no armor will be trivial to a cruiser carrying armor while a flat amount that is relevant to a cruiser will be ludicrously effective to other ships. If the bonus was instead something like +25% to your actual damage resistances, then it becomes more relevant to your build when you carry more armor to make use of it.
For PvE, that's probably correct.
Cruiser already have higher shield mods than escorts. You want even more? Go get a sci ship.
decker999
Join Date: Aug 2010