The damage from TBR1 is roughly 1000 dps (TBR lasts 10 seconds) on a tactical buff with 6 points in particles OR two-three particle generator consoles. Not only are you pushing them away from you, but you are destroying them as well. Since field generators will prove ineffective if your shield power is drained, you're better off employing a hard counter particle generator for the following:
Repulsors gravitons are effected by aux power levels. The higher your power, the further the push. Since you're drained you won't be pushing them too far. However, particle generator component to this is not linked to aux power.
The damage from repulsors is kinetic bleed through. In fact, if transphasic mines/torps are also employed, this will tenfold be that much more effective.
Meaning, even if you are drained you are still doing enough damage to destroy the siphon drones.
A team with repulsors on their boffs will be extremely effective in countering them even in their current status of OP.
A carrier can launch siphons every 30 seconds, in effect once those siphons are destroyed (which they will be) by 1 ship using buffed repulsors. That carrier's effectiveness has been drastically impacted. If more siphons appear while that player's 45 second is in effect, then it is another player's turn to repulse and destroy. If this is cycled, coordinated, and executed correctly, then it will work.
Not theoretical, this has been tested.
Now I'm not going to say Power Siphons are "ok". They're not. The Devs say the samething, and I think everyone else says so too. This is a current rag tag solution we came up with.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes
Pax is right that TBR is a good choice because it doesn't require drones to be in a cluster and is still effective once you are being drained.
I don't know about the 30 second deployment, though. I haven't run a Kar'fi since flight deck doffs got a change but I know it was a hell of a lot faster than that when I was in one. The difference between pushing them away or destroying them was immaterial because I was going to try to redeploy them right on top of the target either way.
TBR is 10 second up, 45 down, so you're going to need a team, multiple copies, or both.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Pax is right that TBR is a good choice because it doesn't require drones to be in a cluster and is still effective once you are being drained.
I don't know about the 30 second deployment, though. I haven't run a Kar'fi since flight deck doffs got a change but I know it was a hell of a lot faster than that when I was in one. The difference between pushing them away or destroying them was immaterial because I was going to try to redeploy them right on top of the target either way.
TBR is 10 second up, 45 down, so you're going to need a team, multiple copies, or both.
Right. But this is in noway considered or should be interpreted by the Devs as a "solution" to something that is subject to a (hopefully) severe nerf.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for binders full of women).
Repulsors target 3 targets at max if i read correctly so if a full klink team has all these energy drain gizmos, repulsors wont help that much. Another issue is that repulsors is an ability you cant control. It might even push away the target everyones shooting and hence the skill will interrupt and be a nuisance to your team.
Good thought though.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
This game is not primary team based (even if a lot of players think it is).
The PvE game is not until you reach endgame as all the STFs are designed for a team.
PvP is completely team based. That is why Teams tend to win over PuGs.
U missed the point.
As did you. Under fire by multiple attackers means you are recieving 4 times the drain effects constantly. One person can not stand up to a team of players and the effects they can bring.
I can't fight a team of feds using the Danube pets, gravity well, TYkens rift, SNB, etc by myself and not expect to die under the constant onslaught of damage, CC, holds and subsystem targeting. Why would anybody expect to be able too?
Whats needs to be assesed in a non-biased experiment is if a single ship can drain-lock a player into not being able to take action first.
See if the abilities are broken for a single user before you get dogpiled by several users and call foul on the abilities as being OP.
Repulsors target 3 targets at max if i read correctly so if a full klink team has all these energy drain gizmos, repulsors wont help that much. Another issue is that repulsors is an ability you cant control. It might even push away the target everyones shooting and hence the skill will interrupt and be a nuisance to your team.
Good thought though.
3 targets every pulse, which is every second. Tac buffed it should destroy the siphons and low aux means you won't push them too terribly far. We're not talking about TRIBBLE up an optional here, shuffleboarding the carrier a little won't TRIBBLE off your team if you're clearing spam in the process.
_______________ CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that? Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
TBR gets a bad rep because too many people do not know how to use it and they do not communicate that they are going to use it. They'll do it at random times... and you want to shoot them.
As did you. Under fire by multiple attackers means you are recieving 4 times the drain effects constantly. One person can not stand up to a team of players and the effects they can bring.
Im talking about advanced siphon drones. In my vid there is only one carrier using it. How can the number of attackers multiply the effect of the asd?
I can't fight a team of feds using the Danube pets, gravity well, TYkens rift, SNB, etc by myself and not expect to die under the constant onslaught of damage, CC, holds and subsystem targeting. Why would anybody expect to be able too?
Use 2x APO, Polarize Hull, TBR, EPS-Consoles and spent ur skillpoints into the right skills and all of this evil fed spam is laughable
Whats needs to be assesed in a non-biased experiment is if a single ship can drain-lock a player into not being able to take action first.
See if the abilities are broken for a single user before you get dogpiled by several users and call foul on the abilities as being OP.
Just watch the full vid. U can see that i first get siphoned at 1:24 http://youtu.be/4lKf6qtdIF0?t=1m24s.
And from this time on all abilities that should increase all or one subsystems power level just do nothing, and that is just broken.
Repulsors target 3 targets at max if i read correctly so if a full klink team has all these energy drain gizmos, repulsors wont help that much. Another issue is that repulsors is an ability you cant control. It might even push away the target everyones shooting and hence the skill will interrupt and be a nuisance to your team.
Good thought though.
Good, so assemble a team. We'll test it on you like we did. And prove it to you that way.
If you weren't inapt to accepting the findings we took the effort to discover, then perhaps you should not of asked for clarification if you cannot grasp that clarification as something tested and proven effective.
Im talking about advanced siphon drones. In my vid there is only one carrier using it. How can the number of attackers multiply the effect of the asd?
I saw two carriers in the video.
How do you know the other team wasn't using more drain related abilities on you. You where under attack by 4 foes yet only give account that the ASD where why you where drained so much.
I theorize it was multiple drains from multiple game mechanics and you merely suffered the total effect from all at once.
This does not nmean drain is perfectly balanced. It may not be. It does show that you can't gauge the drain mechanics off of one combat where the target (you) is dogpiled by multiple attackers.
Use 2x APO, Polarize Hull, TBR, EPS-Consoles and spent ur skillpoints into the right skills and all of this evil fed spam is laughable
Good. Then knowing how the game works, some idea of how abilities work, you too should be able to fend off a solo Drain boat with a just as cleverly devised series of counters.
BTW, the above use of abilities does help though you will still get held as the shuttles out number you. Unless you break the TB very quickly and flee combat you as a single players against many will succumb to the dogpile.
I also noticed you where suffering constant debuffs from several effects, not the Siphon drones well before they where even used against you. You lost shields once for a second but gained them back when EPTS was hit and lost Auxillary as well for a brief time.
One is most certainly the Plasmonic Leech, The other I can not tell (some red icon on a orange tabard) the htird and fourth ones that kept popping up I can not read.
As well, you kept your base shields at 50 strength with 100 in weapons and changed shortly afterwards to a base 25 power for shields and a 100 for Auxillary. How is EPTS going help your shields if your base is so low to begin with? Siphon is not a shield debuff so EPTS does not counter it directly, it only pumps power to the drain system.
For many reasons I do not think yopur video is a genuine representation of teh effects of Siphon drones and other factors played in your doing poorly in that combat.
as a side note: YOur video is from 9/3/2012 and the Siphon drones are due to be tweaked further towards balance since you made this video.
i ran into such a team last night, 3 carriers, 2 with drones. my team was helpless, i was not. because i had EWP1 on my vet ship, and thanks to 2 AtB i was dropping a second plasma before the first cloud even dissipated. they were complete fail without their drones, when i took that away their zombie builds were useless at damaging unsiphoned targets. 90% of their ability to do anything relied on their drones, they were the worst kind of scum in game, so i stomped a mud hole, made them eat ****, and buried them in plasma until they were defeated. felt so good, a victory for all who's energy levels have been repressed.
you can see by my teams numbers how shut down they were, i was administering friendly plasma clouds to them like you would administer HE lol. was a total TRIBBLE fest, we had carriers too i think, no runabouts though. surprised my processor survived.
SHHHHHHHHHH!!! Dat was suppossed to bees our wittle sekret hax0rz!
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Yes, when energy damage is being applied, even in small amounts to an Aceton assimilator, they spit out an AOE that will kill a mine..
How ever, the Drain beam from an Aceton Assimilator ALSO kills mines as they are being deployed. I have witnessed this one first hand and on MANY occations. It is what makes mines useless against an Aceton Assimilator just as much as the Blast that comes from them when you hit them with Energy.
Also, they are too damn sturdy. And you should never be able to spit out more then ONE assimilator per cool down. It should do the same thing that happens when you try to Deployment Pattern the same mine. The old mine pattern vanishes and is replaced with the new one.
In my opinion, Drain counters should be:
Emergency Power to X
Auxilery to the Battery
X Battery
EPS (Engi Skill)
Even EPS Consoles could help provide extra Resistance vs Energy siphon Drain.
Also, something to consider that is worse then what you said.. When your being Energy Drained, Viral Matrix is also annoying, because it doesn't drain your systems, but shuts them down. Tack that on with the usual energy drain builds and you'll be hitting your warp out button just as fast if not faster.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Pets in general are very tough without dedicated anti-spam measures. Did they get shield/hull buffed or something? Even Danubes take a hell of a lot of punishment.
Pets in general are very tough without dedicated anti-spam measures. Did they get shield/hull buffed or something? Even Danubes take a hell of a lot of punishment.
Yes, when energy damage is being applied, even in small amounts to an Aceton assimilator, they spit out an AOE that will kill a mine..
Another reason why the player should not shoot energy at a AA or have thier weapons on autofire or use BFAw near a AA.
How ever, the Drain beam from an Aceton Assimilator ALSO kills mines as they are being deployed. I have witnessed this one first hand and on MANY occations. It is what makes mines useless against an Aceton Assimilator just as much as the Blast that comes from them when you hit them with Energy.
Also, they are too damn sturdy. And you should never be able to spit out more then ONE assimilator per cool down. It should do the same thing that happens when you try to Deployment Pattern the same mine. The old mine pattern vanishes and is replaced with the new one.
In my opinion, Drain counters should be:
Emergency Power to X
Auxilery to the Battery
X Battery
EPS (Engi Skill)
Even EPS Consoles could help provide extra Resistance vs Energy siphon Drain.
Also, something to consider that is worse then what you said.. When your being Energy Drained, Viral Matrix is also annoying, because it doesn't drain your systems, but shuts them down. Tack that on with the usual energy drain builds and you'll be hitting your warp out button just as fast if not faster.
I like these ideas. Though the mines should not be so easily destroyed by even a un-energized AA since they are the main counter to it. That need to be fixed if its not already been slated for season 7
SHHHHHHHHHH!!! Dat was suppossed to bees our wittle sekret hax0rz!
those ships with that build are a hard secrete to keep :cool: anyone brutalized by it likely noticed its capabilities being far higher then should be possible.
Yes, when energy damage is being applied, even in small amounts to an Aceton assimilator, they spit out an AOE that will kill a mine..
How ever, the Drain beam from an Aceton Assimilator ALSO kills mines as they are being deployed. I have witnessed this one first hand and on MANY occations. It is what makes mines useless against an Aceton Assimilator just as much as the Blast that comes from them when you hit them with Energy.
Actually, you don't even need to fire on it. It has an inherit ability to release radiation damage at 30-60 a second. It's not much and, frankly, unnoticeable. Unless you deploy a mine or heavy torpedo (which only has 1 hit point and no shields). In which case, it will instantly kill anything that is launched.
What may look like the drain is killing the mines/heavy torpedoes, is actually just the weak radiation damage doing more damage than what the mines/heavy torpedoes can take.
If you do fire on it with energy weapons, with skill points in Particle Generators and buffed by tactical skills, it can do 2-3k damage per hit.
The cheapness of the Aceton Assimilators isn't the drain, it's the resistance to energy damage (I had a fleet mate fire on it fully buffed with just energy weapons, and he couldn't get it down past 20 damage before he had to stop from all the backlash he was getting), constant radiation damage (rendering mines and heavy torpedoes useless), and powerful damage when it's fired upon by energy weapons.
Oki ive been through some sadistic torture in Kerrat and altered builds several times, as well as read the forums and picked up some hints. Now I think I have a good counter to energy drain builds, so class in session!
Aceton assimilators: Simplest solution is to push them away when they pop up. Tractorbeam repulsor is an efficent way to move them out of range while your team/yourself stay away and deny the space.
Energy drain drones: The most efficent way is to use plasma mines. Since it deploys 4 mines the inital hit and the DoT, which i may add carries over to other targets, will get rid of them easy and the CD is low.
Tykens Rift: Hazard Emitters reduce the drain to a single point. Laugh as you stay in it and enjoy the pretty scenery.
Plasmonic Leech: This is maybe the hardest one to counter but max points into power insulators will reduce the effect. In addition add the consoles to add more prevention.
So there you have it folks. Less whine and more pew pew.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Comments
I don't know about the 30 second deployment, though. I haven't run a Kar'fi since flight deck doffs got a change but I know it was a hell of a lot faster than that when I was in one. The difference between pushing them away or destroying them was immaterial because I was going to try to redeploy them right on top of the target either way.
TBR is 10 second up, 45 down, so you're going to need a team, multiple copies, or both.
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Right. But this is in noway considered or should be interpreted by the Devs as a "solution" to something that is subject to a (hopefully) severe nerf.
-PaxOttomana of Turkish RP Heroes (RP stands for binders full of women).
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Good thought though.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
R.I.P
CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
Good, so assemble a team. We'll test it on you like we did. And prove it to you that way.
If you weren't inapt to accepting the findings we took the effort to discover, then perhaps you should not of asked for clarification if you cannot grasp that clarification as something tested and proven effective.
Thanks.
PaxOttomana.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
R.I.P
SHHHHHHHHHH!!! Dat was suppossed to bees our wittle sekret hax0rz!
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
How ever, the Drain beam from an Aceton Assimilator ALSO kills mines as they are being deployed. I have witnessed this one first hand and on MANY occations. It is what makes mines useless against an Aceton Assimilator just as much as the Blast that comes from them when you hit them with Energy.
Also, they are too damn sturdy. And you should never be able to spit out more then ONE assimilator per cool down. It should do the same thing that happens when you try to Deployment Pattern the same mine. The old mine pattern vanishes and is replaced with the new one.
In my opinion, Drain counters should be:
Emergency Power to X
Auxilery to the Battery
X Battery
EPS (Engi Skill)
Even EPS Consoles could help provide extra Resistance vs Energy siphon Drain.
Also, something to consider that is worse then what you said.. When your being Energy Drained, Viral Matrix is also annoying, because it doesn't drain your systems, but shuts them down. Tack that on with the usual energy drain builds and you'll be hitting your warp out button just as fast if not faster.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
Just under 20k hp. LoL
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
R.I.P
those ships with that build are a hard secrete to keep :cool: anyone brutalized by it likely noticed its capabilities being far higher then should be possible.
What may look like the drain is killing the mines/heavy torpedoes, is actually just the weak radiation damage doing more damage than what the mines/heavy torpedoes can take.
If you do fire on it with energy weapons, with skill points in Particle Generators and buffed by tactical skills, it can do 2-3k damage per hit.
The cheapness of the Aceton Assimilators isn't the drain, it's the resistance to energy damage (I had a fleet mate fire on it fully buffed with just energy weapons, and he couldn't get it down past 20 damage before he had to stop from all the backlash he was getting), constant radiation damage (rendering mines and heavy torpedoes useless), and powerful damage when it's fired upon by energy weapons.
Aceton assimilators: Simplest solution is to push them away when they pop up. Tractorbeam repulsor is an efficent way to move them out of range while your team/yourself stay away and deny the space.
Energy drain drones: The most efficent way is to use plasma mines. Since it deploys 4 mines the inital hit and the DoT, which i may add carries over to other targets, will get rid of them easy and the CD is low.
Tykens Rift: Hazard Emitters reduce the drain to a single point. Laugh as you stay in it and enjoy the pretty scenery.
Plasmonic Leech: This is maybe the hardest one to counter but max points into power insulators will reduce the effect. In addition add the consoles to add more prevention.
So there you have it folks. Less whine and more pew pew.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!