The Sovereign has one Quantum Torp Launcher. One.
Go back and re-read what has been said by dontdrunkimshoot. He tells you that the only way that the Sovereign can hope to outgun the Galaxy is by keeping the QT edge and firing everything she has. Every phaser bank and every torpedo launcher at once.
If certain interpretations of the Tech Manuals are true, than even that won't even the score for the Sovereign. Equip a QT launcher in the much larger Galaxy Torpedo tubes and the Sovereign gets gutted. And you can bet that the Galaxy would end up with QT once effective mass production on them was reached. She had her Phaser Arrays upgraded twice and was shot down with Type XI equipped.
Sorry, let me rephrase then.
Replace the F-22 with the new German aircraft.
They don't suddenly ditch all prior aircraft over night do they.
The f-22 is a wonderful weapons platform but was designed with a single kind of combat in mind. Once you remove that option the F-22 looses a significant part of its advantage.
American has not lost a single f-15 to combat. it has consistantly been upgraded and the E model even added ground attack capability.
The f-16 is currently in its block 70 production run and isrial is the primary buyer. The only reason america isnt in a full scale replacement program is we were replacing it with the f-35 which is cirrently in its final stages of trials.
The primary difference between a 15 and a 22 is the stealth capability and manueverability of the 22. the 15 has a larger payload than the 22 since the 22 doesn't carry external munitions. The 22 can carry external munitions but that limits its stealth ability. The 22's stealth ability is also geared toward horizontal detection not look up/down radar systems.
Think of the 22 as a BOP(its even called a raptor). Aslo not that experimental trials and acceptance of the f 22 were done in the late 80's early 90's.
Just thought I should clear that up since it seems to be the basis of an argument about technology.
As a time traveller, Am I supposed to pack underwear or underwhen?
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
its nice to know im not the ONLY one here any more that will defend the galaxy's honor. now if only the galaxy in game was at least 25% of what it was in canon
But isn't the "X" just as "wide" as the Galaxy? I thought that's what made it elegant?
I have for the longest time argued to have them allow the Gal-X to have the original saucer to take some of the 'bling" off of it.
It's not ony that it's the relations and proportions that make this ship look better (in my eyes) than almost all other ships. The Galaxy X, looks like a kid had slapped some "cool" looking stuff on it to make it look cooler.
They killed the elegant lines and majesty of the Galaxy Class completely.
If you put on MK XII Very Rare weapons in place of those MK XI's, you will notice a decidedly greater difference. I throw on a DBB to make better use of the front on firepower, especially when the saucer is separated. I know that when I have fought against most Galaxy's I tended to go nose on becuase most are BA happy.
Lol, believe it or not i use the Polarized Deisruptor Arrays MK XII [dmg] on it (i'm only doing PvE anymore). I just forgot that i installed them already.
As i already said, that's not the point. Everything i did with the Galaxy Class can be done with any other ship in the game and i would get a better result. Its BOFF & console layout make the Galaxy Class the most passive (and boring) ship in the game. Just be able to take endless damage WITHOUT being able to strike back is NOT, i repeat NOT satisfying.
You see, my point is that the Galaxy Class is too passive COMPARED to other ships in the game.
I never said it was inferior or toothless, just different. As far as a Lt. Cmdr Sci, that couldn't be so bad, but then you'd still be limited to a maximum Lt. Tac boff. Would that really be what you want (although two lt. tacs would be interesting). You'd be giving up an awfull lot on the Engi Boff side.
I say the Galaxy Class is inferior compared to the Assault cruiser or any other ship in STO.
As i already said, being able to tank forever and let others do the work (PvP) or to tickle your enemy to death (PvE/solo) just isn't satisfying (especially for the Galaxy Class). It NEEDS to be more active. I am not talking about MY build or skills or stuff like that, i have no problem making other Cruisers (relatively) active and offensive in this game. It's the Galaxys BOFF & Console Layout, one Tac Lt. and two tac consoles are just too little. In addition, it has three science consoles, but ony one Lt Science. This doesn't help much, it just makes that ship even more of a flying brick.
The devs haven't made ANY other ship this passive and boring like the Galaxy Class.
I get that some ship has to be the most passive one, but to make the Galaxy Class that ship is just intolerable. The devs easily could have used one of their own ugly and misshaped creations for that role. They made the Galaxy Class a completely different ship as it is used to be, even in other games.
If they had eve the slightest idea about the Galaxy Class they would have given it a Lt. universal instead of its Lt Science AND gave it two Science consoles instead of three and added one universal console.
It would be ok if it had two Lt. Tactical BOFF stations, which would still be inferior to the Regent. But it would massively boost the Galaxy Class versatility and give it a much more active role.
My favourite alternative would be to make its Science Lt. into a universal one. So it would reflect the "real" Galaxys modularity a bit.
Man, is your color/font scheme a killer, it probably took more time pasting the font/color instructrions than the actual content of my post :P
Sorry about that, i find that color combination muchg less stressful for the eye, than the default White Font / Black background.
If it takes too much time, then just skip it and leave the font just white, thats no problem.
its nice to know im not the ONLY one here any more that will defend the galaxy's honor. now if only the galaxy in game was at least 25% of what it was in canon
You said it!
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
its nice to know im not the ONLY one here any more that will defend the galaxy's honor. now if only the galaxy in game was at least 25% of what it was in canon
I just like things that make sense. The Galaxy class has shown (canonically speaking) incredible firepower, incredible endurance and was designed to be upgraded easily and readily.
A ship that large and well constructed coupled with its mission directive is going to be a powerhouse and meant to be "that" for a hell of a long time.
I just like things that make sense. The Galaxy class has shown (canonically speaking) incredible firepower, incredible endurance and was designed to be upgraded easily and readily.
A ship that large and well constructed coupled with its mission directive is going to be a powerhouse and meant to be "that" for a hell of a long time.
and then there are instances were it performs so poorly that the bridge crew should be court marshaled for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment of the crew. but those bad examples can jut be explained away as incompetence, you cant take back or try to average out its best showings.
there is nothing about the galaxy that would harshly out date it like say the excelsior that lacks arrays or the ambassador that has extreamly short arrays for a ship its size from a modern standpoint.
lack of phaser arrays should have shortened the excelcior's shelf life, but regardless the complacent starfleet kept it around for WAY to long. the bulk of the fleet being so tactically inferior with a limit to how far they could be upgraded without ripping apart the superstructure is proboly why wars with the cardasian and tzenkethi lasted years, even decades.
they were about 20 years behind when the smaller classes introduced in the 2360s started finally launching imo. just in time to get produced in enough numbers to make a difference against the borg and dominion.
then theres cryptic's odyssey, thats about 25 years to early as far as a ship being made that tops the galaxy. for the record, i was ADAMANTLY trying to explain to logan during the mesh building the importance of long arrays if nothing else, on this ship especially if it was going to replace the galaxy. huh, ok i'll keep that in mind, and then the oddy was launched with sub sovereign sized arrays. :rolleyes:
evaluating the oddy the same way we do the galaxy does not go well for it. first of all its size, its absurd that it is that large. its saucer is ruffly the same size as a galaxy's and its secondary hull proboly has even more volume. why would they make that ship so big and not give it weapons proportional with its size? its 100% form, 0% function, unless you buy the part about the twin neck helping slipstream. how is this ship going to serve as starfleets premier battleship for 50-75 years if its incapable of having half the firepower a galaxy armed with the same emitter type would have? the galaxy already had more room then you could possibly need for any mission it could go on, save for perhaps something transgalactic. i doubt by 2409 even with slip stream would starfleet be ready to try that.
this is the size the odyssey should have been, a step back in size a bit, and with an array not split in 2. the result of all the lessons learned from the galaxy and sovereign, and all the other classes of similar age. but its like they took that book of lessens and flushed it down the toilet and then designed it
and then there are instances were it performs so poorly that the bridge crew should be court marshaled for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment of the crew. but those bad examples can jut be explained away as incompetence, you cant take back or try to average out its best showings.
Actually I would argue against that. Albeit I am not sure what instances you are talking about the two most used instances for a Galaxy's "weakness" are typically the Odyssey's destruction and Generations. In both examples they actually show heavily just how much fortitude the Galaxy has in her frame and design.
there is nothing about the galaxy that would harshly out date it like say the excelsior that lacks arrays or the ambassador that has extreamly short arrays for a ship its size from a modern standpoint.
lack of phaser arrays should have shortened the excelcior's shelf life, but regardless the complacent starfleet kept it around for WAY to long. the bulk of the fleet being so tactically inferior with a limit to how far they could be upgraded without ripping apart the superstructure is proboly why wars with the cardasian and tzenkethi lasted years, even decades.
they were about 20 years behind when the smaller classes introduced in the 2360s started finally launching imo. just in time to get produced in enough numbers to make a difference against the borg and dominion.
Can't agree with you enough. For brevity sake, ships todays are a lot of times 30+ years old. They were designed to absorb new technology as it was made. Hell, the battleships of yesteryear were refitted during the Gulf war and they weren't designed to absorb new tech but they did. I am pretty sure designers and engineers of the 24th century would be "better" at it (it being the concept of modular and adaptive design) and keep this well in mind when greating a capital ship like the Galaxy.
then theres cryptic's odyssey, thats about 25 years to early as far as a ship being made that tops the galaxy. for the record, i was ADAMANTLY trying to explain to logan during the mesh building the importance of long arrays if nothing else, on this ship especially if it was going to replace the galaxy. huh, ok i'll keep that in mind, and then the oddy was launched with sub sovereign sized arrays. :rolleyes:
evaluating the oddy the same way we do the galaxy does not go well for it. first of all its size, its absurd that it is that large. its saucer is ruffly the same size as a galaxy's and its secondary hull proboly has even more volume. why would they make that ship so big and not give it weapons proportional with its size? its 100% form, 0% function, unless you buy the part about the twin neck helping slipstream. how is this ship going to serve as starfleets premier battleship for 50-75 years if its incapable of having half the firepower a galaxy armed with the same emitter type would have? the galaxy already had more room then you could possibly need for any mission it could go on, save for perhaps something transgalactic. i doubt by 2409 even with slip stream would starfleet be ready to try that.
this is the size the odyssey should have been, a step back in size a bit, and with an array not split in 2. the result of all the lessons learned from the galaxy and sovereign, and all the other classes of similar age. but its like they took that book of lessens and flushed it down the toilet and then designed it
I think the easiest way to sum it up is they tried to make something that looks "cool". Looking at these pictures its clear as day (as you point out) it isn't an efficient design for phaser stripping. It's ridiculous. There is a reason why a bubble is the most efficient shape in nature. Rounding it would have given it far more with to work with. Hell, even the the monstrously ugly Enterprise J was round. That said I would only be repeating what you said - very good post, my man,
If they had eve the slightest idea about the Galaxy Class they would have given it a Lt. universal instead of its Lt Science AND gave it two Science consoles instead of three and added one universal console.
That effectively reads "Please take away it's only science boff! give me absolutely no defence against science ships!"
That's a GREAT idea, lets open a HUGE hole in your ships defences and it's in game capabilities. Please stop trying to shoot your own ship down in flames and try focusing your existing firepower see: this
The galaxy is not an engineers cruiser though, in game they made it a tacticals cruiser hence the lacking tac boff skills but abundance of engi skills, it allow a tac to do in a cruiser what we engineers want to do, dish out the damage AND sponge damage like Q knows what
That effectively reads "Please take away it's only science boff! give me absolutely no defence against science ships!"
That's a GREAT idea, lets open a HUGE hole in your ships defences and it's in game capabilities. Please stop trying to shoot your own ship down in flames and try focusing your existing firepower see: this
The galaxy is not an engineers cruiser though, in game they made it a tacticals cruiser hence the lacking tac boff skills but abundance of engi skills, it allow a tac to do in a cruiser what we engineers want to do, dish out the damage AND sponge damage like Q knows what
Universal means you can still use a Science BOFF on that station, but it would give the ship a bit of flexibility to adapt to more situations.
I am sorry, if you don't understand that.
Btw. i am well aware how to fly my ship, thank you.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Universal means you can still use a Science BOFF on that station, but it would give the ship a bit of flexibility to adapt to more situations.
I am sorry, if you don't understand that.
No, no, I understand this perfectly the thing is that we ALL KNOW that it's only going to get used for a tactical BOFF so your comment about uni BOFF was completely unnecessary. If you want to have a uni station why not change the ensign to uni that gives you all the flexibility you would have had using your suggestion and at a lower cost i.e. you keep the built in science and most of the useful engineering and still get that ensign to play with.
Also as a result of running 6 beam arrays on the ship you are losing a lot of it's damage potential. As we all know from the show the ships firepower is focussed forward and if you get out of the firing range of the forward beam you have a chance at bringing the thing down, I think the devs did a good job of portraying this design flaw and there are things you can do to maximise your all round damage potential; as someone said before me use a DBB.
A DBB plus EPtW plus EPS Power transfer plus Nadion inversion plus AP:B (in place already) plus Weapons battery plus TT plus BO = A **** Ton of damage (even more if it crits)
Now imagine that from an escorts point of view, a Galaxy class "weak brick" just tore lots of holes in your hull, admittedly you've got 3 minutes to prepare for the next one, and on top of this that ship is still dishing it out, so you have to change tactics and defend and rebuild. now if you take your escort in behind this ship and it starts firing torps at you two a time WITH decent broadside damage are you gonna keep at it? (I wouldn't. I'd go pick on some helpless tank that is incapable of putting up a fight).
So what those two paragraphs says is that actually the galaxy is far from defenceless and even less so with a tac at the helm, which happens to be what it was designed for. Give it a go, I used to run a similar Excelsior to good effect
I think all cruisers that have a third engineering ensign slot shout instead get a universal ensign slot because who the heck needs three engineering ensigns and for what purpose? I leave mine blank. :rolleyes:
Actually I would argue against that. Albeit I am not sure what instances you are talking about the two most used instances for a Galaxy's "weakness" are typically the Odyssey's destruction and Generations. In both examples they actually show heavily just how much fortitude the Galaxy has in her frame and design.
i used to remember a few, the only one that comes to mind right now is rascals. the ferengi beat and took over the enterprise with 2 salvaged bops and like 10 ferengi. against a ship with 1000 people and the ability to destroy both ships in a torpedo spread or a single phaser blast each. that single shot the D fired at the bop in generations should have ended the fight, antimaterial round through a watermelon like.
the bridge banter on the odyssey stated that there weapons were having no effect against the jem hadar shields, which is frankly impossible, you cant dissipate that much energy regardless of what setting your shields have. they also mentioned that the odyssey's shields were completely infective against the polaron based weapons, and that they tried every frequency.
they didn't open fire until the bugs were literally underneath the saucer. if the odyssey had fired on them like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM there would not have been a battle, as long as their weapons were allowed to deal damage by the writers. at the very least they could have sent 9 bugs against the ship so it wasn't such an embarrassing loss. just an absurd battle
Can't agree with you enough. For brevity sake, ships todays are a lot of times 30+ years old. They were designed to absorb new technology as it was made. Hell, the battleships of yesteryear were refitted during the Gulf war and they weren't designed to absorb new tech but they did. I am pretty sure designers and engineers of the 24th century would be "better" at it (it being the concept of modular and adaptive design) and keep this well in mind when greating a capital ship like the Galaxy.
I think the easiest way to sum it up is they tried to make something that looks "cool". Looking at these pictures its clear as day (as you point out) it isn't an efficient design for phaser stripping. It's ridiculous. There is a reason why a bubble is the most efficient shape in nature. Rounding it would have given it far more with to work with. Hell, even the the monstrously ugly Enterprise J was round. That said I would only be repeating what you said - very good post, my man,
thanks, i cant stand how shrimpy the arrays are on all of cryptic's ships, they really need guys like us advising them on these basic technical must haves, they are clueless. oh and the odyssey has no viable sensor arrays like the galaxy had in the rum of the saucer and secondary hull or the diamond the intrepid had in its saucer. well, i guess the sovereign doesn't have anything like that ether
i used to remember a few, the only one that comes to mind right now is rascals. the ferengi beat and took over the enterprise with 2 salvaged bops and like 10 ferengi. against a ship with 1000 people and the ability to destroy both ships in a torpedo spread or a single phaser blast each. that single shot the D fired at the bop in generations should have ended the fight, antimaterial round through a watermelon like.
The Feringi, yeah, it was PIS but doesn't really reflect the ships fortitude (or lack of). Yeah, generations ending was absurd, but it did showcase something. When the Enterprise is destroyed and the saucer separates it really showcases just how well the ship was constructed. Lets move past the ridiculousness of Riker not just saying "Fire all weapons - maximum yield" and look at it from a lesson point of view.
The saucer section escaped, entered the atmosphere and proceeded to skim across a mountain range (coming for orbit) like a pebble skipping across a pond. Thrusters obviously helped but still, the saucer section was intact with little damage and the crew survived. Yes, it sucked how Ricker suddenly became an idiot but again (as aforementioned) it illustrated how tough the ship is.
Compare that to how much damage the Enterprise E took from ramming the Reman ship. High orbit crash Vs ramming speed from such a distance hardly any momentum was generated.
the bridge banter on the odyssey stated that there weapons were having no effect against the jem hadar shields, which is frankly impossible, you cant dissipate that much energy regardless of what setting your shields have. they also mentioned that the odyssey's shields were completely infective against the polaron based weapons, and that they tried every frequency.
they didn't open fire until the bugs were literally underneath the saucer. if the odyssey had fired on them like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM there would not have been a battle, as long as their weapons were allowed to deal damage by the writers. at the very least they could have sent 9 bugs against the ship so it wasn't such an embarrassing loss. just an absurd battle
The destruction of the Odyssey is very interesting. Like anyone else I was blown away when it happened (when I first saw it in a new episode, not rerun). The makers used to to try and illiterate how powerful and dangerous the dominion was by killing the Feds best and most powerful ship. After that I fell into the "Oh it died easy, they suck now" train of thought like most people do. Years ago (and years after first seeing it) when I got into the hobby of studying these things for STar Trek forum discussion several things dawned on me.
I agree with you, it was stupid but that is what PIS is all about. Still, when you look past it the scene shows a hell of a lot.
The Odyssey sustained fired, unshielded on screen for 10 minutes. 3 ships, with very powerful weapons were pounding her almost relentlessly. Even after the beating she took she was still able to head home. Most importantly was what happened when she was destroyed. We all know she was rammed - the death blow came from being rammed in her engineering section. However, if you look at her before she blew very little damage was actually done to the vessel in comparison to being rammed at full speed. If you look at that instance, compare it to what happens to BoP (they are obliterated when rammed) and the much larger Vor Cha (when we see them rammed they are split in half like a machete cutting into a melon) Galaxys display an insane amount of damage soak and hull fortitude.
After that we see on screen Galaxys with ablative strips over the engineering section (once again illustrating the ship is upgraded). We see on the assault against the orbital weapons platforms soaking up damage and keep trucking through while other ships are eaten alive. We see them deep within dominion lines in sacrfice of angels (including one shotting a big old bad dominion cruiser) showing again how powerful and tough they are.
I agree with what you at about the crew but again if you look past it and just absorb the data it says a hell of a lot as to why the Galaxy was the premier battleship of the Federation. As for the polaron beams, well, I agree but thats how it was done so sadly it is cannon but does make sense as to why things happen(ed). I remember a conversation between Weyun and Dukat with Weyun saying basically ah federation weapons are ineffective against Dominion shields. Dukat retorts never under estimate Star Fleet engineers. So in short, although it doesn't make sense phaser really didn't work at first it was actually what happened.
yep, if i wasn't looking past all that i wouldn't be coming to the conclusion that the galaxy is without peer as far as federation ships go. i recall them betting on DS9's shields not being able to defend against their weapons too, boy were they surprised.
i remember seeing quite a wile ago now an examination of hull thickness between the sov and galaxy, thanks to the sov ramming we got a pretty good canon look. then there was info about it in the tech manual and some screens to draw from and the galaxy's smooth, flowing, window filled hull was actually quite a bit thicker.
No, no, I understand this perfectly the thing is that we ALL KNOW that it's only going to get used for a tactical BOFF so your comment about uni BOFF was completely unnecessary. If you want to have a uni station why not change the ensign to uni that gives you all the flexibility you would have had using your suggestion and at a lower cost i.e. you keep the built in science and most of the useful engineering and still get that ensign to play with.
So you prefer to be "forced" to use a science Lt. Even if you could have a universal to be much more flexible, then who keeps you from using a Sci BOFF on that station?
Is the Regent much more vulnerable because it has a Lt. universal instead of a Lt. Science, no of course not. You can use a Science Lt. if the situation needs it, but you are not forced to use one, that's the important part.
For that Galaxy Class, i would be ok if the (eng.) Ensign AND the (sci.) Lt. would become universal, but making the (eng.) ensign alone a universal slot is too little and not very useful in the first place.
Another thing, why is the nebula so versatile and the galaxy is not, they are from the same time period (meaning they are both not new anymore) and very similar ships in structure and design?
It's because the devs just don't have a good opinion about TNG or the Galaxy Class itself. Its BOFF & Console Layout have nothing to do with the "real" ship, it's just how the devs want to have the Galaxy Class.
Also as a result of running 6 beam arrays on the ship you are losing a lot of it's damage potential. As we all know from the show the ships firepower is focussed forward and if you get out of the firing range of the forward beam you have a chance at bringing the thing down, I think the devs did a good job of portraying this design flaw and there are things you can do to maximise your all round damage potential; as someone said before me use a DBB.
A DBB plus EPtW plus EPS Power transfer plus Nadion inversion plus AP:B (in place already) plus Weapons battery plus TT plus BO = A **** Ton of damage (even more if it crits)
Loosing damage potential when using 6 Beams? Have you ever heard of boardsiding? Ever heard of energy drain?
One of the Builds you where linking actually was suggesting to use 2 tropedo launchers in the aft weapons slots. :rolleyes:
Sorry, but i'm still laughing.
I never use other peoples builds on my ships, i can create a effective build that fits for my needs myself. You never really know how that person does actually play or what goals that person wants to archieve with that ship.
You can use 6 or even 7 Beam arrays on a Cruiser if you chain 2x EptW. That gives your ship enough power to keep fireing. That is where the main damage potential of a Cruiser lies, not in unsing dual beam banks, especially not with a slow turning Galaxy Class.
In STO cruisers are made to hammer boardsides on their enemies, but to do that the galaxy has insufficient tac consoles and too few/not high enough tac BOFF slots.
But if you are sucessful with it using DBB, then please go on.
I never said that i where unable to do damage with a Galaxy Class, i said that COMPARED to almost all other ships in the game, the Galaxy is just to teethless and to passive.
Everything you can do with a Galaxy Class to increase it's active role in combat can be done much better with ANY other ship. That's my point.
If you knew the "real" ship then you would know that the Galaxys main Phaser array is something like 300 degrees instead of a Dual Beam Banks 90 degrees. That ship was capable to release huge amounts of damage in that zone, the rest of the ship was secured with a lot of smaller phaser arrays.
Now imagine that from an escorts point of view, a Galaxy class "weak brick" just tore lots of holes in your hull, admittedly you've got 3 minutes to prepare for the next one, and on top of this that ship is still dishing it out, so you have to change tactics and defend and rebuild. now if you take your escort in behind this ship and it starts firing torps at you two a time WITH decent broadside damage are you gonna keep at it? (I wouldn't. I'd go pick on some helpless tank that is incapable of putting up a fight).
So what those two paragraphs says is that actually the galaxy is far from defenceless and even less so with a tac at the helm, which happens to be what it was designed for. Give it a go, I used to run a similar Excelsior to good effect
Yeah the Galaxy is far from defenseless.... sure.
I have no idea what enemies Escorts you are fighting, but the ones i was fighting knew exactly how to use their ships. Surely there where some who obviously couldn't find the "fire" button, but those don't count IMO.
Sure, you can tickle any enemy to death, if you have enough time and the Escort pilot dosen't break combat because it is just too boring.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Loosing damage potential when using 6 Beams? Have you ever heard of boardsiding? Ever heard of energy drain?
One of the Builds you where linking actually was suggesting to use 2 tropedo launchers in the aft weapons slots. :rolleyes:
Sorry, but i'm still laughing.
Actually if you were to try this you would find it's quite effective dropping 2 torps at a time in an escorts face, and one of the reasons I suggested a 4 beam broadside WAS the power drain from 6 also you'll get a little more damage out of your cycling EPtWs with 4 over 6
That is where the main damage potential of a Cruiser lies, not in unsing dual beam banks, especially not with a slow turning Galaxy Class.
In STO cruisers are made to hammer boardsides on their enemies, but to do that the galaxy has insufficient tac consoles and too few/not high enough tac BOFF slots.
But if you are sucessful with it using DBB, then please go on.
With regard to it's slow turn rate: that's why I mentioned the use of reverse gear. Also when you mention not using other peoples builds because you don't know their goals, I put that together with the goals of damage output and damage sponging to the greatest extent I could so effectively: Your goals.
I never said that i where unable to do damage with a Galaxy Class, i said that COMPARED to almost all other ships in the game, the Galaxy is just to teethless and to passive.
Everything you can do with a Galaxy Class to increase it's active role in combat can be done much better with ANY other ship. That's my point.
Not really, I think your galaxy would beat my Oddy when it comes to damage sponging and that's damn hard to kill
If you knew the "real" ship then you would know that the Galaxys main Phaser array is something like 300 degrees instead of a Dual Beam Banks 90 degrees. That ship was capable to release huge amounts of damage in that zone, the rest of the ship was secured with a lot of smaller phaser arrays.
In fact I do know the ship, I know it pretty damned well actually my idea of using a DBB with Beam overload was an attempt to replicate that kind of firepower, ok so it'll only work in a 90 degree angle of the frint of your ship but on a ship that size 90 degs is still a large area.
Yeah the Galaxy is far from defenseless.... sure.
I have no idea what enemies Escorts you are fighting, but the ones i was fighting knew exactly how to use their ships. Surely there where some who obviously couldn't find the "fire" button, but those don't count IMO.
Sure, you can tickle any enemy to death, if you have enough time and the Escort pilot dosen't break combat because it is just too boring.
All the escorts I've fought have also known exactly where to find the fire button but if you put enough holes in them they are forced to break combat, I find all my ships to be more effective in PvP than in PvE and a battery and other assorted buff powered DBB beam overload is going to quickly put such holes in an escort, also with warp plasma on the back combined with dual torp launchers combined with the ships built in ability to tank makes you a meal that really isn't worth the effort to have.
Actually if you were to try this you would find it's quite effective dropping 2 torps at a time in an escorts face, and one of the reasons I suggested a 4 beam broadside WAS the power drain from 6 also you'll get a little more damage out of your cycling EPtWs with 4 over 6
If you just use 4 Beam array to boardside, why do you bother flying a crusier at all?
Use a Science ship which has much more maneuverbility, and nearly as much survivability. Plus it is much more fun to fly a science ship, if you don't utilize a cruisers only advantage.
Not really, I think your galaxy would beat my Oddy when it comes to damage sponging and that's damn hard to kill
Becuse we where both falling asleep while waiting for one of our ships doing some damage?
Cruiser Cruiser Battles are the most boring and dull things one can do in this game.
None has nearly enough firepower to seriously damage the other. It's pointless.
If your Odyssey claas would have similar BOFF powers and similar equipment, it could be much more active. I'm not talking about tanking capabilities. (Every Starfleet ship can tank very well with the right BOFF powers and equipment.) No, i am talking about making the least offensive ship in the game (the Galaxy) a bit more versatile and more active.
By changing its Lt. Sci and Ensign eng. into a Lt and Ensign universal or even lt. cmdr universal.
For example:
If someone thinks the upcoming mission needs a more tanky ship then he/she can use a sci or eng BOFF in one of the universal slots or a combination of them.
If the next mission needs a more agressive approach then i would choose a Tac officer in that place.
My point is to give the captin of the Galaxy Class the CHOICE to choose what he/she wants or needs. The Galaxy class could become a very versatile and fun ship, instead of being the most boring and just a fan ship in STO. It would give Galaxy Class captains much more options.
In fact I do know the ship, I know it pretty damned well actually my idea of using a DBB with Beam overload was an attempt to replicate that kind of firepower, ok so it'll only work in a 90 degree angle of the frint of your ship but on a ship that size 90 degs is still a large area.
In my opinion, it's a waste of a weapons slot, you won't be able to get the enemy into the fireing arc long enough to actually benefit from the DBB. Surely you will get to fire it once in a while but not as much for it to become decisive.
All the escorts I've fought have also known exactly where to find the fire button but if you put enough holes in them they are forced to break combat, I find all my ships to be more effective in PvP than in PvE and a battery and other assorted buff powered DBB beam overload is going to quickly put such holes in an escort, also with warp plasma on the back combined with dual torp launchers combined with the ships built in ability to tank makes you a meal that really isn't worth the effort to have.
You shouldn't forget that Torpedoes only do real damage if the enemies shield is down. But since you are so positive about having two torpedo launcers in the aft weapons slot, i would be the last to talk you out of it.
OT:
So you think the Galaxy class has enough offensive capabilities already?
Especially COMPARED to other ships?
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
If you build to focus it's firepower in the right ways yes, You've already said you're not doing PvP anymore so a DBB is useful to you as we both know that the borg doesn't move half as much or fast as players you can actually keep the DBB on target when you have enough practice with throttle control
the only viable build on fed cruisers with a 6 or 7 turn rate is 8 beams, thats it. there is nothing else to consider
Well that's a matter of opinion and aim, I could quite easily run a galaxy class in game with a 4 beam broadside focussing most firepower fore and aft, it gives me spike damage and the broadside doesn't suffer as much from drain, my dual aft torp setup also punishes escort pilots for sitting behind me while the DBB on th front gives me some evil damage on a BO attack.
Basically it's designed to deal with threats fore and aft and sustain med-high DPV in the broadside while tanking anything the game throws at it, which is exactly what I think the devs had in mind building it
Well that's a matter of opinion and aim, I could quite easily run a galaxy class in game with a 4 beam broadside focussing most firepower fore and aft, it gives me spike damage and the broadside doesn't suffer as much from drain, my dual aft torp setup also punishes escort pilots for sitting behind me while the DBB on th front gives me some evil damage on a BO attack.
Basically it's designed to deal with threats fore and aft and sustain med-high DPV in the broadside while tanking anything the game throws at it, which is exactly what I think the devs had in mind building it
there is noting you can equip on a cruiser that turns that poorly that works better then 8 beam arrays.
A) with any lower arc weapon you wont have any meaningful up time
no combination of front biased weapons will out dps an 8 beam array broad side, fact
C) you cannot spike in a fed cruiser, what you may think is spike, is not spike.
D) the aft guns running cold wile you plink away with your front weapons leaves your damage dealing in the toilet
E) just set weapons power to 100, cycle EPtW1, have the borg console, and put 6 in weapons performance and power drain is not an issue
there really is no better option, by a large order of magnitude. if you think any combination of weapons is better then 8 beam arrays, you are a victim of pve teaching you how to play incorrectly.
You two are just arguing each other in circles. It's starting to give me a headache...
Mine is gone long ago, lol.
Since the Galaxy Class discussion is over or has transferred to some other threads which are sieged by KDF lobbyists, i'm going to leave that stuff behind. I need to give my nerves some break, and do something funny again, like reading some release notes or some dev blog, yawn...
I sympathise with you, it's boring the heck out of me too but I still TRY to help...
I'm almost embarrassed to say that, but as i already indicated several times, i never asked for help.:o
My point was something completely different... well forget it.
Thank you for reading.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
there is noting you can equip on a cruiser that turns that poorly that works better then 8 beam arrays.
there really is no better option, by a large order of magnitude. if you think any combination of weapons is better then 8 beam arrays, you are a victim of pve teaching you how to play incorrectly.
180 Quantum Torp disagrees with you. lol.
Adding that increased my DPS bigtime in a beam boat.
Just like the Nebula is a weak excuse for a science ship, the Galaxy-R has become a weak excuse for a cruiser, and a big waste of money because the Devs hate TNG, so cripple those ships to make them laughing stalks of STO.
Seriously I cant even believe that you think that the Nebula Class is a weak excuse for a science ship... you must have NEVER played a Science Captain or truly USED a Nebula Class,
I fly the Nebula, I understand that it is a science ship and therefor not going to put out the DPS that an Escort of the same Quality (I have the Fleet Nebula now) but to say its a weak excuse for a science ship is laughable at best you obviously do not know how to make it work for you (thats ok it might not fit with your playstyle) I have found the Nebula and then the Fleet nebula to be VERY effective in STF's and PVP, apparently it is dangerous enough that I eventually become the focus of the ENTIRE opposing team in PVP, as for it being a Poor Excuse for a science ship I just dont see it.. I log in and get asked if I want to pvp when I ask what ship I should bring the answer is always the same... "bring the Nebula"
it is in my opinion that most of you that cry and whine about how this ship or that ship is OP and that they need to fix this ship or that to bring it up to the power level of the current Pay To Win ships, have never really sat down and experimented with or worked on creating a build that can and will work.... I recently posted TWO Nebula builds that work EXTREMELY well in PVP and with the swapping of a BOFF also works well in STF's
as I have said many times its not the ship[ its user error...
Major Xi'Zzin I.R.W. Raptor's Claw Storm Eagle Class WarbirdFleet Ha'feh I have never trusted humans, and I never will
Seriously I cant even believe that you think that the Nebula Class is a weak excuse for a science ship... you must have NEVER played a Science Captain or truly USED a Nebula Class,
I fly the Nebula, I understand that it is a science ship and therefor not going to put out the DPS that an Escort of the same Quality (I have the Fleet Nebula now) but to say its a weak excuse for a science ship is laughable at best you obviously do not know how to make it work for you (thats ok it might not fit with your playstyle) I have found the Nebula and then the Fleet nebula to be VERY effective in STF's and PVP, apparently it is dangerous enough that I eventually become the focus of the ENTIRE opposing team in PVP, as for it being a Poor Excuse for a science ship I just dont see it.. I log in and get asked if I want to pvp when I ask what ship I should bring the answer is always the same... "bring the Nebula"
it is in my opinion that most of you that cry and whine about how this ship or that ship is OP and that they need to fix this ship or that to bring it up to the power level of the current Pay To Win ships, have never really sat down and experimented with or worked on creating a build that can and will work.... I recently posted TWO Nebula builds that work EXTREMELY well in PVP and with the swapping of a BOFF also works well in STF's
as I have said many times its not the ship[ its user error...
/
As I have said many times
Pull out your Engineer with your gal r
Now you will see just how limited you are
I fly a science Tac and engineer so I know
The strengths and limitations of my characters
And I'n space the engineer I'n his ship Lacks
Greatly
If you don't have a gal r and a engineer you
Really shouldn't comment I'n this thread
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
The f-22 is a wonderful weapons platform but was designed with a single kind of combat in mind. Once you remove that option the F-22 looses a significant part of its advantage.
American has not lost a single f-15 to combat. it has consistantly been upgraded and the E model even added ground attack capability.
The f-16 is currently in its block 70 production run and isrial is the primary buyer. The only reason america isnt in a full scale replacement program is we were replacing it with the f-35 which is cirrently in its final stages of trials.
The primary difference between a 15 and a 22 is the stealth capability and manueverability of the 22. the 15 has a larger payload than the 22 since the 22 doesn't carry external munitions. The 22 can carry external munitions but that limits its stealth ability. The 22's stealth ability is also geared toward horizontal detection not look up/down radar systems.
Think of the 22 as a BOP(its even called a raptor). Aslo not that experimental trials and acceptance of the f 22 were done in the late 80's early 90's.
Just thought I should clear that up since it seems to be the basis of an argument about technology.
Not everything you see on the internet is true - Abraham Lincoln
Occidere populo et effercio confractus
Yeah... he has a tendency to do that lol...
its nice to know im not the ONLY one here any more that will defend the galaxy's honor. now if only the galaxy in game was at least 25% of what it was in canon
They killed the elegant lines and majesty of the Galaxy Class completely.
Lol, believe it or not i use the Polarized Deisruptor Arrays MK XII [dmg] on it (i'm only doing PvE anymore). I just forgot that i installed them already.
As i already said, that's not the point. Everything i did with the Galaxy Class can be done with any other ship in the game and i would get a better result. Its BOFF & console layout make the Galaxy Class the most passive (and boring) ship in the game. Just be able to take endless damage WITHOUT being able to strike back is NOT, i repeat NOT satisfying.
You see, my point is that the Galaxy Class is too passive COMPARED to other ships in the game.
I say the Galaxy Class is inferior compared to the Assault cruiser or any other ship in STO.
As i already said, being able to tank forever and let others do the work (PvP) or to tickle your enemy to death (PvE/solo) just isn't satisfying (especially for the Galaxy Class). It NEEDS to be more active. I am not talking about MY build or skills or stuff like that, i have no problem making other Cruisers (relatively) active and offensive in this game. It's the Galaxys BOFF & Console Layout, one Tac Lt. and two tac consoles are just too little. In addition, it has three science consoles, but ony one Lt Science. This doesn't help much, it just makes that ship even more of a flying brick.
The devs haven't made ANY other ship this passive and boring like the Galaxy Class.
I get that some ship has to be the most passive one, but to make the Galaxy Class that ship is just intolerable. The devs easily could have used one of their own ugly and misshaped creations for that role. They made the Galaxy Class a completely different ship as it is used to be, even in other games.
If they had eve the slightest idea about the Galaxy Class they would have given it a Lt. universal instead of its Lt Science AND gave it two Science consoles instead of three and added one universal console.
It would be ok if it had two Lt. Tactical BOFF stations, which would still be inferior to the Regent. But it would massively boost the Galaxy Class versatility and give it a much more active role.
My favourite alternative would be to make its Science Lt. into a universal one. So it would reflect the "real" Galaxys modularity a bit.
Sorry about that, i find that color combination muchg less stressful for the eye, than the default White Font / Black background.
If it takes too much time, then just skip it and leave the font just white, thats no problem.
You said it!
Thank you for reading.
I just like things that make sense. The Galaxy class has shown (canonically speaking) incredible firepower, incredible endurance and was designed to be upgraded easily and readily.
A ship that large and well constructed coupled with its mission directive is going to be a powerhouse and meant to be "that" for a hell of a long time.
and then there are instances were it performs so poorly that the bridge crew should be court marshaled for criminal negligence and reckless endangerment of the crew. but those bad examples can jut be explained away as incompetence, you cant take back or try to average out its best showings.
there is nothing about the galaxy that would harshly out date it like say the excelsior that lacks arrays or the ambassador that has extreamly short arrays for a ship its size from a modern standpoint.
lack of phaser arrays should have shortened the excelcior's shelf life, but regardless the complacent starfleet kept it around for WAY to long. the bulk of the fleet being so tactically inferior with a limit to how far they could be upgraded without ripping apart the superstructure is proboly why wars with the cardasian and tzenkethi lasted years, even decades.
they were about 20 years behind when the smaller classes introduced in the 2360s started finally launching imo. just in time to get produced in enough numbers to make a difference against the borg and dominion.
then theres cryptic's odyssey, thats about 25 years to early as far as a ship being made that tops the galaxy. for the record, i was ADAMANTLY trying to explain to logan during the mesh building the importance of long arrays if nothing else, on this ship especially if it was going to replace the galaxy. huh, ok i'll keep that in mind, and then the oddy was launched with sub sovereign sized arrays. :rolleyes:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6043/7006085291_af74a4d2f5_o.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/9448/galaxyclassscale.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7210/6801454400_49ee00e393_o.jpg
evaluating the oddy the same way we do the galaxy does not go well for it. first of all its size, its absurd that it is that large. its saucer is ruffly the same size as a galaxy's and its secondary hull proboly has even more volume. why would they make that ship so big and not give it weapons proportional with its size? its 100% form, 0% function, unless you buy the part about the twin neck helping slipstream. how is this ship going to serve as starfleets premier battleship for 50-75 years if its incapable of having half the firepower a galaxy armed with the same emitter type would have? the galaxy already had more room then you could possibly need for any mission it could go on, save for perhaps something transgalactic. i doubt by 2409 even with slip stream would starfleet be ready to try that.
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9875/enterprisecompare.jpg
this is the size the odyssey should have been, a step back in size a bit, and with an array not split in 2. the result of all the lessons learned from the galaxy and sovereign, and all the other classes of similar age. but its like they took that book of lessens and flushed it down the toilet and then designed it
Actually I would argue against that. Albeit I am not sure what instances you are talking about the two most used instances for a Galaxy's "weakness" are typically the Odyssey's destruction and Generations. In both examples they actually show heavily just how much fortitude the Galaxy has in her frame and design.
Can't agree with you enough. For brevity sake, ships todays are a lot of times 30+ years old. They were designed to absorb new technology as it was made. Hell, the battleships of yesteryear were refitted during the Gulf war and they weren't designed to absorb new tech but they did. I am pretty sure designers and engineers of the 24th century would be "better" at it (it being the concept of modular and adaptive design) and keep this well in mind when greating a capital ship like the Galaxy.
I think the easiest way to sum it up is they tried to make something that looks "cool". Looking at these pictures its clear as day (as you point out) it isn't an efficient design for phaser stripping. It's ridiculous. There is a reason why a bubble is the most efficient shape in nature. Rounding it would have given it far more with to work with. Hell, even the the monstrously ugly Enterprise J was round. That said I would only be repeating what you said - very good post, my man,
That effectively reads "Please take away it's only science boff! give me absolutely no defence against science ships!"
That's a GREAT idea, lets open a HUGE hole in your ships defences and it's in game capabilities. Please stop trying to shoot your own ship down in flames and try focusing your existing firepower see: this
The galaxy is not an engineers cruiser though, in game they made it a tacticals cruiser hence the lacking tac boff skills but abundance of engi skills, it allow a tac to do in a cruiser what we engineers want to do, dish out the damage AND sponge damage like Q knows what
I am sorry, if you don't understand that.
Btw. i am well aware how to fly my ship, thank you.
Thank you for reading.
No, no, I understand this perfectly the thing is that we ALL KNOW that it's only going to get used for a tactical BOFF so your comment about uni BOFF was completely unnecessary. If you want to have a uni station why not change the ensign to uni that gives you all the flexibility you would have had using your suggestion and at a lower cost i.e. you keep the built in science and most of the useful engineering and still get that ensign to play with.
Also as a result of running 6 beam arrays on the ship you are losing a lot of it's damage potential. As we all know from the show the ships firepower is focussed forward and if you get out of the firing range of the forward beam you have a chance at bringing the thing down, I think the devs did a good job of portraying this design flaw and there are things you can do to maximise your all round damage potential; as someone said before me use a DBB.
A DBB plus EPtW plus EPS Power transfer plus Nadion inversion plus AP:B (in place already) plus Weapons battery plus TT plus BO = A **** Ton of damage (even more if it crits)
Now imagine that from an escorts point of view, a Galaxy class "weak brick" just tore lots of holes in your hull, admittedly you've got 3 minutes to prepare for the next one, and on top of this that ship is still dishing it out, so you have to change tactics and defend and rebuild. now if you take your escort in behind this ship and it starts firing torps at you two a time WITH decent broadside damage are you gonna keep at it? (I wouldn't. I'd go pick on some helpless tank that is incapable of putting up a fight).
So what those two paragraphs says is that actually the galaxy is far from defenceless and even less so with a tac at the helm, which happens to be what it was designed for. Give it a go, I used to run a similar Excelsior to good effect
i used to remember a few, the only one that comes to mind right now is rascals. the ferengi beat and took over the enterprise with 2 salvaged bops and like 10 ferengi. against a ship with 1000 people and the ability to destroy both ships in a torpedo spread or a single phaser blast each. that single shot the D fired at the bop in generations should have ended the fight, antimaterial round through a watermelon like.
the bridge banter on the odyssey stated that there weapons were having no effect against the jem hadar shields, which is frankly impossible, you cant dissipate that much energy regardless of what setting your shields have. they also mentioned that the odyssey's shields were completely infective against the polaron based weapons, and that they tried every frequency.
they didn't open fire until the bugs were literally underneath the saucer. if the odyssey had fired on them like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=H_XbWq49vUM there would not have been a battle, as long as their weapons were allowed to deal damage by the writers. at the very least they could have sent 9 bugs against the ship so it wasn't such an embarrassing loss. just an absurd battle
thanks, i cant stand how shrimpy the arrays are on all of cryptic's ships, they really need guys like us advising them on these basic technical must haves, they are clueless. oh and the odyssey has no viable sensor arrays like the galaxy had in the rum of the saucer and secondary hull or the diamond the intrepid had in its saucer. well, i guess the sovereign doesn't have anything like that ether
The Feringi, yeah, it was PIS but doesn't really reflect the ships fortitude (or lack of). Yeah, generations ending was absurd, but it did showcase something. When the Enterprise is destroyed and the saucer separates it really showcases just how well the ship was constructed. Lets move past the ridiculousness of Riker not just saying "Fire all weapons - maximum yield" and look at it from a lesson point of view.
The saucer section escaped, entered the atmosphere and proceeded to skim across a mountain range (coming for orbit) like a pebble skipping across a pond. Thrusters obviously helped but still, the saucer section was intact with little damage and the crew survived. Yes, it sucked how Ricker suddenly became an idiot but again (as aforementioned) it illustrated how tough the ship is.
Compare that to how much damage the Enterprise E took from ramming the Reman ship. High orbit crash Vs ramming speed from such a distance hardly any momentum was generated.
The destruction of the Odyssey is very interesting. Like anyone else I was blown away when it happened (when I first saw it in a new episode, not rerun). The makers used to to try and illiterate how powerful and dangerous the dominion was by killing the Feds best and most powerful ship. After that I fell into the "Oh it died easy, they suck now" train of thought like most people do. Years ago (and years after first seeing it) when I got into the hobby of studying these things for STar Trek forum discussion several things dawned on me.
I agree with you, it was stupid but that is what PIS is all about. Still, when you look past it the scene shows a hell of a lot.
The Odyssey sustained fired, unshielded on screen for 10 minutes. 3 ships, with very powerful weapons were pounding her almost relentlessly. Even after the beating she took she was still able to head home. Most importantly was what happened when she was destroyed. We all know she was rammed - the death blow came from being rammed in her engineering section. However, if you look at her before she blew very little damage was actually done to the vessel in comparison to being rammed at full speed. If you look at that instance, compare it to what happens to BoP (they are obliterated when rammed) and the much larger Vor Cha (when we see them rammed they are split in half like a machete cutting into a melon) Galaxys display an insane amount of damage soak and hull fortitude.
After that we see on screen Galaxys with ablative strips over the engineering section (once again illustrating the ship is upgraded). We see on the assault against the orbital weapons platforms soaking up damage and keep trucking through while other ships are eaten alive. We see them deep within dominion lines in sacrfice of angels (including one shotting a big old bad dominion cruiser) showing again how powerful and tough they are.
I agree with what you at about the crew but again if you look past it and just absorb the data it says a hell of a lot as to why the Galaxy was the premier battleship of the Federation. As for the polaron beams, well, I agree but thats how it was done so sadly it is cannon but does make sense as to why things happen(ed). I remember a conversation between Weyun and Dukat with Weyun saying basically ah federation weapons are ineffective against Dominion shields. Dukat retorts never under estimate Star Fleet engineers. So in short, although it doesn't make sense phaser really didn't work at first it was actually what happened.
i remember seeing quite a wile ago now an examination of hull thickness between the sov and galaxy, thanks to the sov ramming we got a pretty good canon look. then there was info about it in the tech manual and some screens to draw from and the galaxy's smooth, flowing, window filled hull was actually quite a bit thicker.
Is the Regent much more vulnerable because it has a Lt. universal instead of a Lt. Science, no of course not. You can use a Science Lt. if the situation needs it, but you are not forced to use one, that's the important part.
For that Galaxy Class, i would be ok if the (eng.) Ensign AND the (sci.) Lt. would become universal, but making the (eng.) ensign alone a universal slot is too little and not very useful in the first place.
Another thing, why is the nebula so versatile and the galaxy is not, they are from the same time period (meaning they are both not new anymore) and very similar ships in structure and design?
It's because the devs just don't have a good opinion about TNG or the Galaxy Class itself. Its BOFF & Console Layout have nothing to do with the "real" ship, it's just how the devs want to have the Galaxy Class.
Loosing damage potential when using 6 Beams? Have you ever heard of boardsiding? Ever heard of energy drain?
One of the Builds you where linking actually was suggesting to use 2 tropedo launchers in the aft weapons slots. :rolleyes:
Sorry, but i'm still laughing.
I never use other peoples builds on my ships, i can create a effective build that fits for my needs myself. You never really know how that person does actually play or what goals that person wants to archieve with that ship.
You can use 6 or even 7 Beam arrays on a Cruiser if you chain 2x EptW. That gives your ship enough power to keep fireing. That is where the main damage potential of a Cruiser lies, not in unsing dual beam banks, especially not with a slow turning Galaxy Class.
In STO cruisers are made to hammer boardsides on their enemies, but to do that the galaxy has insufficient tac consoles and too few/not high enough tac BOFF slots.
But if you are sucessful with it using DBB, then please go on.
I never said that i where unable to do damage with a Galaxy Class, i said that COMPARED to almost all other ships in the game, the Galaxy is just to teethless and to passive.
Everything you can do with a Galaxy Class to increase it's active role in combat can be done much better with ANY other ship. That's my point.
If you knew the "real" ship then you would know that the Galaxys main Phaser array is something like 300 degrees instead of a Dual Beam Banks 90 degrees. That ship was capable to release huge amounts of damage in that zone, the rest of the ship was secured with a lot of smaller phaser arrays.
Yeah the Galaxy is far from defenseless.... sure.
I have no idea what enemies Escorts you are fighting, but the ones i was fighting knew exactly how to use their ships. Surely there where some who obviously couldn't find the "fire" button, but those don't count IMO.
Sure, you can tickle any enemy to death, if you have enough time and the Escort pilot dosen't break combat because it is just too boring.
Thank you for reading.
Actually if you were to try this you would find it's quite effective dropping 2 torps at a time in an escorts face, and one of the reasons I suggested a 4 beam broadside WAS the power drain from 6 also you'll get a little more damage out of your cycling EPtWs with 4 over 6
With regard to it's slow turn rate: that's why I mentioned the use of reverse gear. Also when you mention not using other peoples builds because you don't know their goals, I put that together with the goals of damage output and damage sponging to the greatest extent I could so effectively: Your goals.
Not really, I think your galaxy would beat my Oddy when it comes to damage sponging and that's damn hard to kill
In fact I do know the ship, I know it pretty damned well actually my idea of using a DBB with Beam overload was an attempt to replicate that kind of firepower, ok so it'll only work in a 90 degree angle of the frint of your ship but on a ship that size 90 degs is still a large area.
All the escorts I've fought have also known exactly where to find the fire button but if you put enough holes in them they are forced to break combat, I find all my ships to be more effective in PvP than in PvE and a battery and other assorted buff powered DBB beam overload is going to quickly put such holes in an escort, also with warp plasma on the back combined with dual torp launchers combined with the ships built in ability to tank makes you a meal that really isn't worth the effort to have.
Use a Science ship which has much more maneuverbility, and nearly as much survivability. Plus it is much more fun to fly a science ship, if you don't utilize a cruisers only advantage.
Becuse we where both falling asleep while waiting for one of our ships doing some damage?
Cruiser Cruiser Battles are the most boring and dull things one can do in this game.
None has nearly enough firepower to seriously damage the other. It's pointless.
If your Odyssey claas would have similar BOFF powers and similar equipment, it could be much more active. I'm not talking about tanking capabilities. (Every Starfleet ship can tank very well with the right BOFF powers and equipment.) No, i am talking about making the least offensive ship in the game (the Galaxy) a bit more versatile and more active.
By changing its Lt. Sci and Ensign eng. into a Lt and Ensign universal or even lt. cmdr universal.
For example:
If someone thinks the upcoming mission needs a more tanky ship then he/she can use a sci or eng BOFF in one of the universal slots or a combination of them.
If the next mission needs a more agressive approach then i would choose a Tac officer in that place.
My point is to give the captin of the Galaxy Class the CHOICE to choose what he/she wants or needs. The Galaxy class could become a very versatile and fun ship, instead of being the most boring and just a fan ship in STO. It would give Galaxy Class captains much more options.
In my opinion, it's a waste of a weapons slot, you won't be able to get the enemy into the fireing arc long enough to actually benefit from the DBB. Surely you will get to fire it once in a while but not as much for it to become decisive.
You shouldn't forget that Torpedoes only do real damage if the enemies shield is down. But since you are so positive about having two torpedo launcers in the aft weapons slot, i would be the last to talk you out of it.
OT:
So you think the Galaxy class has enough offensive capabilities already?
Especially COMPARED to other ships?
Thank you for reading.
I sympathise with you, it's boring the heck out of me too but I still TRY to help...
Well that's a matter of opinion and aim, I could quite easily run a galaxy class in game with a 4 beam broadside focussing most firepower fore and aft, it gives me spike damage and the broadside doesn't suffer as much from drain, my dual aft torp setup also punishes escort pilots for sitting behind me while the DBB on th front gives me some evil damage on a BO attack.
Basically it's designed to deal with threats fore and aft and sustain med-high DPV in the broadside while tanking anything the game throws at it, which is exactly what I think the devs had in mind building it
there is noting you can equip on a cruiser that turns that poorly that works better then 8 beam arrays.
A) with any lower arc weapon you wont have any meaningful up time
C) you cannot spike in a fed cruiser, what you may think is spike, is not spike.
D) the aft guns running cold wile you plink away with your front weapons leaves your damage dealing in the toilet
E) just set weapons power to 100, cycle EPtW1, have the borg console, and put 6 in weapons performance and power drain is not an issue
there really is no better option, by a large order of magnitude. if you think any combination of weapons is better then 8 beam arrays, you are a victim of pve teaching you how to play incorrectly.
Since the Galaxy Class discussion is over or has transferred to some other threads which are sieged by KDF lobbyists, i'm going to leave that stuff behind. I need to give my nerves some break, and do something funny again, like reading some release notes or some dev blog, yawn... I'm almost embarrassed to say that, but as i already indicated several times, i never asked for help.:o
My point was something completely different... well forget it.
Thank you for reading.
180 Quantum Torp disagrees with you. lol.
Adding that increased my DPS bigtime in a beam boat.
Seriously I cant even believe that you think that the Nebula Class is a weak excuse for a science ship... you must have NEVER played a Science Captain or truly USED a Nebula Class,
I fly the Nebula, I understand that it is a science ship and therefor not going to put out the DPS that an Escort of the same Quality (I have the Fleet Nebula now) but to say its a weak excuse for a science ship is laughable at best you obviously do not know how to make it work for you (thats ok it might not fit with your playstyle) I have found the Nebula and then the Fleet nebula to be VERY effective in STF's and PVP, apparently it is dangerous enough that I eventually become the focus of the ENTIRE opposing team in PVP, as for it being a Poor Excuse for a science ship I just dont see it.. I log in and get asked if I want to pvp when I ask what ship I should bring the answer is always the same... "bring the Nebula"
it is in my opinion that most of you that cry and whine about how this ship or that ship is OP and that they need to fix this ship or that to bring it up to the power level of the current Pay To Win ships, have never really sat down and experimented with or worked on creating a build that can and will work.... I recently posted TWO Nebula builds that work EXTREMELY well in PVP and with the swapping of a BOFF also works well in STF's
as I have said many times its not the ship[ its user error...
I.R.W. Raptor's Claw
Storm Eagle Class Warbird Fleet Ha'feh
I have never trusted humans, and I never will
/
As I have said many times
Pull out your Engineer with your gal r
Now you will see just how limited you are
I fly a science Tac and engineer so I know
The strengths and limitations of my characters
And I'n space the engineer I'n his ship Lacks
Greatly
If you don't have a gal r and a engineer you
Really shouldn't comment I'n this thread
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse